Category talk:Brittany

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[edit] Move

• Oppose move Bretagne, support the merger to Brittany. Everything Bretgane should be Brittany. We should use the common English name and not the French Evrik 15:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
• Support move, for unification of categories related to Bretagne, the official name of the region. In fact there was a bad assumption that Brittanny and Bretagne were different things, but they are equivalent names, both for the historic province and the current French region. This is part of the job for cleaning up the categories... Verdy p 04:12, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose move Bretagne, support the merger to Brittany. If we do not need to disambiguate between administrative region Bretagne and province Brittany, then it would be consistent to use common name Brittany. For comparison, Category:Normandie was merged to Category:Normandy and then deleted. Man vyi 06:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Wrong argument! Normandy is an historic region distinct from the administrative regions that are part of France and British dependencies in the Channel Islands. In contrast, Bretagne and Britanny are not different. For consistency of names of French administrative regions, these should all be in French. English is NOT a regional or national language of Bretagne/Brittany. The name shoudl remain in French, there's no reason to do this change into English, otherwise you would have to change almost all names, and this would conflict with many current links. There's no point in maintaining Britanny. It's up to the English Wikipedia to adapt. Otherwise, we would have other names as well like Breizh (name of the region in Breton). Let's keep just the official language, and the name where the region is the MOST widely known, used and referenced, and it's in French, not English and not even Breton. Verdy p 07:02, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

But of course by including Loire-Atlantique in Bretagne we are no longer talking about the administrative region Bretagne, we're talking about historic region Brittany. The analogy with Normandy holds. Man vyi 11:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

No!! Brittany and Bretagne ARE BOTH designating the historic province and the current region. This is not the same as Normandy which includes TWO regions of France (Bassse-Normadie and Haute-Normandie), some islands of another region (Chausey is in Ille-et-Vilaine, i.e. Bretagne=Brittany), and the former British Channel Islands (bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey).

You cannot make any distinction between Bretagne and Brittany, they have always been equivalent (one is the French name, one is the English name, but the French name is the only one with legal status; on the opposite, Normandy has no legal status and is international and speaks several languages officially: French, English, Norman, Jersiais, and for this reason, we keep English, because Normandy is officially used in a title of the British Crown, and the French definition of Normandie is quite weak). Verdy p 20:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Of course, en: makes precisely this distinction between en:Bretagne and en:Brittany. Current Bretagne excludes Loire-Atlantique, thereby demonstrating that Brittany is not identical. In any case the distinction is moot, as policy (regrettable though it may be) is that English-language category names have primacy. Corresponding cat: in en: is en:Category:Brittany. (BTW, Chausey is in Manche) Man vyi 20:45, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm native of Brittany=Bretagne, I can confirm you that both terms are equal, and felt as such. We use only one term in French (or in breton) for the two entities, notably because the modern definition of Bretagne was created artifically after French revolution, but many Bretons still feel that Loire-Atlantique is part of Bretagne and its long history (Bretagne had no formal capital, and its ruling centers of pwower have always been distributed between several cities, with Rennes and Nantes both gaining only after inclusion of the Duchy in the Kingdom of France. Before that there were also other centers of powers: Saint-Brieuc, Guingamp, Redon, Lamballe, Dol-de-Bretagne, ... depending on time of government and parts of the ruling juridications. Even when the region of Pays de la Loire was created (under name "Val de Loire") Nantes was still not its capital, and Rennes was not the only center of governement for the region. Nantes became the capital only after changing once again the borders between the two regions and by including Vendée within the new artifical region of Pays de la Loire (before that, there were two other regions, Vendée was grouped with Poitou and Charentes, and governed since La Rochelle; Nantes became the capital of Pays de la Loire only after the new regions were fixed, by reassinging the capital with the largest city of this region, but historically and culturally, Nantes was always in Britanny=Bretagne). Note the name of the castle of the Duchy in the center of Nantes: it's officially named "Castle of the Dukes of Bretagne". English is then wrong... There's no difference between Bretagne, Breizh or Brittany, as they all refer (in different languages) to the same region, whose official borders has evolved across time, but not its cultural limits. My opinion is that the English Wikipedia was trying to choose two distinct terms artificially. In the French Wikipédia, the two regions (traditional province and administrative region) are both termed "Bretagne": fr:Bretagne is the traditional province; the adminsitrative region names itself as "Région Bretagne" (because the term "Région" appeared only after the creation of the adminsitrative region, before that, it was a "Province" and before the inclusion in France, it was a "Duché"). Verdy p 23:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

• I strongly agree that the name of the category should remains Brittany which is the only proper name of the country which is called Bretagne in French and Breizh in Breton. Bretagne is in no way an official name for the administrative region. The official name for the region is "Région Bretagne", not Bretagne. The "region Bretagne" doesn't include the whole of Brittany. Some part of it, is included in the administrative region of "Région des Pays-de-la-Loire". Therefore Brittany is the only correct term to refer to the land of Breton people, their distinctive culture, history and language. By the way, I'm breton and I can assure you that everybody around here says Brittany when he speaks English, and so do all the numerous English people who lives here. We never uses the term Bretagne in English. --Fulup 14:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] en: corresponding article moved

Just for info: en:Bretagne has just been moved to en:Brittany (region of France). Man vyi (talk) 14:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

• We should be consistent. Evrik (talk) 19:28, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

And now en:Brittany (region of France) has been moved to en:Bretagne. Man vyi (talk) 06:07, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

And now en:Bretagne has been moved back to en:Brittany (region of France). Man vyi (talk) 07:35, 27 January 2009 (UTC)