Category talk:Caribou (clothing)

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Renaming[edit]

I would like to rename this category to Rangifer tarandus (clothing), since caribou is not an appropriate name for the animal of which the Sami and the Siberian peoples made their clothing. The current category name can be kept as a redirection.--Skogsfrun (talk) 06:22, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

The name is part of a system, which names all furs with the English name, see Category:Furs_by_species. The reason is, the fur trade traditionell use this names, only in the newer time the Latin names became more important, because species protection (CITES). Very often the name is not the same as the biological name of the animal! In the fur branch the fur of young reindeers are named Pijicki, in the past they were used for clothing. The skins of elder reindeers are only used for garment by the natives of the northern countries, in other countries they are only bought for decoration. A possible differentiation between European and American Rangifer tarandus could be caribou and reindeer. But I am not abble to differentiate them, when I see a photo, not even when I hold a skin in my hand... --- I prefer to keep this name, each change should consider the use in the fur trade. Thanks for assisting, regards from Germany --Kürschner (talk) 07:02, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for the information – I had not realized there was such a system. It is perfectly possible to create another category for reindeer clothing (that is, the clothing made by Sami and Siberian peoples). However, since the distinction between caribou and reindeer is a matter of language and not of species, I thought it might be easier to keep them in one category and simply change the name.
Isn't this, however, part of a bigger problem? Which fur trade are we considering? Is there really a unified system of labels which is in use all over the world? And if such a system exists, where do we find the information on what names to use?
Is there no name in the fur trade which covers both caribou and Eurasian reindeer? I doubt that "caribou" can have been used in Europe for fur of Eurasian reindeer. It must also be noted that most of the photos in the category are of native clothing, so for this particular species native use might be more important to consider than the fur trade.--Skogsfrun (talk) 12:30, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Fur trade is always a world wide trade, and the fur names in the wholesale trade and at auctions are English. You will find the names in Fur trade and furrier's books: Category:Furs literature.
I looked into 5 English or American books, none of them mentioned this fur (Rangifer tarandus, caribou, reindeer, pijiki). The probably best work about fur skins is a German one (Jury Fränkel's Rauchwarenbuch), there is the English name reindeer, the name for skins of young reindeers is pijiki. Caribou is not mentioned. Probably it was not a good idea to name the category according to the American name. Since the beginning I also did not really like the category name. - At my to-do-list is my wish, to make an extra category for native fur dresses. But my English is not good enough, so I was angry, to make something wrong. This would not solve this problem, but maybe it is the right place here to talk about it. - I can live with a category Rangifer tarandus, I would prefer reindeer instead of caribou. To use a Latin name for only one (or two, I know another exception) seems me not good. If there are special names for inuit or other clothes made of reindeer we could make own categories for them and categorize them into the ethnic groups and the fur-skin categories? --Kürschner (talk) 07:25, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
A friend of mine just describes his photos: File:Greenland 1999 (27).jpg --Kürschner (talk) 08:07, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
From Google, it seems that reindeer clothing is more popular than Caribou clothing, which is more known than the strange Rangifer tarandus (clothing). No idea what is used in international trading. --Foroa (talk) 08:21, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Reindeer is not an important trade good in the fur trade. In the past most skins were brought as souvenirs by travellers. In the last years the fur ist more sold, not from fur retailers, but from warehouses or furniture stores and similar. Maybe they got it often by other ways, not from the traditionell fur trade. But I think, the trade name in Europe and Asia ist reindeer, in America caribou. --Kürschner (talk) 08:48, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Since caribou on English-language Wikipedia redirects to en:reindeer, maybe we can attempt to rename this category to Reindeer (clothing)? The reason why I proposed the scientific name Rangifer tarandus was that when I created the category Otter tracks, a user informed me that this was not a good idea, since otter can be several species. The correct name should be Lutra lutra tracks, and I have later learned that the formal policy of Wikimedia Commons is in fact to use binominal scientific name for category names involving species. I think this is a good policy, but I won't fight for it in this specific case. So, should I change to Reindeer (clothing), and equally Reindeer fur-skins?--Skogsfrun (talk) 11:47, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree with it, we should do so. The trade names of furs often differ from the zoological names, sometimes they put animals together, which belong not to the same species. This could be a good reason, to use the usual trade names. The problem with otter is in French, I think this is no problem in English ( but probably may lead to misunderstandings by French speaking people). --Kürschner (talk) 12:44, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
The latin scientific names are only a solution where there is only one species involved, and there are no derivative/commercial products and uses. As one can see in the various subcats of Category:Mammals in art and Category:Organisms by common name, both names have to coexist, which is not always simple. --Foroa (talk) 13:16, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I see that you have already made the changes. Well done!--Skogsfrun (talk) 17:52, 3 April 2013 (UTC)