Category talk:Military by country

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to: navigation, search

Discussion on moving military categories down from their country top category level[edit]

There has been an action by a user (NaBUru38) to move all "Military by country" cats from their relevant "country" categories to subcategories of "Politics by country" and "Organizations by country" (TECHNICALLY, THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO CHANGE *THIS* CATEGORY - BUT THIS SEEMS THE LOGICAL PLACE FOR DISCUSSION). This editor (Ingolfson) has reverted a number of these moves, as Military is currently a topcategory within the country category scheme, and many users want direct access to it from the country category, is my perception. In any case, such toplevel changes are pretty significant, and therefore, a move proposal to discuss this here should be had first on the discussion page of this page. -- Ingolfson 22:37, 31 December 2011‎

I am actually reasonably neutral - if we get consensus that the country category scheme is changed so that military is not a topcat anymore, then fine. But changing such important category relationships needs discussion first. Ingolfson (talk) 22:40, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I started the move because the military are a organization deeply linked with national politics (they are supposed to defend the country). It would be odd to me to navigate down from "Politics of Foo" and "Organizations of Foo" and not find "Military of X".
A note: I put these categories in "Politics of Foo" and not "Government of Foo" because we are used to see them support the goverment, but sometimes they conflict them. I'm not sure if that would fall on paramilitary rather than military. Anyway, I picked the higher one, but either option is fine with me. --NaBUru38 (talk) 23:03, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
Military is in general above politics (head of state, monarch) especially in a historic context, so should be a topcat. --Foroa (talk) 22:27, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Foroa, could you explain that? I am not sure about that. While I am not fully convinced that military should be moved down from the topcat status, my opposition is mainly from a user perspective. Military as such is under the control of politics (or, if the military takes things into their own hands, then they, by definition become "politicians"). Ingolfson (talk) 21:51, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Politics are mostly but not completely providers of the government people (military=government), but even if politics stall (monarchy, stopping of government as during 18 months in Belgium, dictature, civil war, ...) government goes on in some form. Mixing government (judges, military, ...) and politics is not right. Anyway, we have to look indeed what sort of information people are looking for mostly so that they get an easy access, and that is places, artworks, literature (which is not necessarily art), buildings, incidents and events (including wars), people, spectacular things (military). So I would be inclined to state that countries heavily involved in military (industry) to have military indeed as a topcat. --Foroa (talk) 06:19, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Although "military" is in a late sense part of "politics" I believe that there is a lot of people that is interested in military things without considering their political or institutrional aspects. Then the category should be easy to be found at the first level

  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose Military is not a organization and clearly not a subtheme of politics but a specific theme (although it can have common subcategories with related themes - such "military organizations", "military politics", "military technology" etc.). If somebody will propose some relevant parent category (Security? Force?), we cann discuss it, but I see no acceptable proposal here. {{Move}} is inappropriate template, please use {{Cfd}} or {{Rfc}} instead. I think, military is enough specific and important branch to have its own top category. Non-government (rebelious) forces can be categorized under "Military of ..." but not under "Army of ..." --ŠJů (talk) 01:05, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose For the above reasons and to help searches--Pierpao.lo (listening) 05:59, 19 February 2012 (UTC)