Commons:Categories for discussion/2009/12/Category:Regions of Spain
This is an effort to revive and broaden the stale thread Commons:Categories for discussion/Current requests/2009/09/Category:Regions of Catalonia.
"Regions" is vague. It might often refer, for example, to an autonomous community such as Andalusia or Navarre, or a mancomunidad (a bottom-up association of municipalities). Everything (or virtually everything) under this category is a comarca and, indeed, the Spanish-language heading on the page is "Comarcas de España". (A comarca is comparable to a "shire"; unfortunately, it can't be translated as "county" because parts of Spain have a history of counties in the narrow sense: ruled by a count.)
Many (perhaps most) of the autonomous regions formally recognize comarcas. In others, the designation is more informal. Andalusia's new 2007 Statute of Autonomy allows for the beginning of formal recognition there. The term is, to the best of my knowledge, used throughout the country (although in Catalonia and - I think - in Asturias it is pluralized comarques rather than comarcas). I think we should do one of the following:
1) this should be renamed as Category:Comarcas of Spain or
2) we can keep this name at the level of the country, but for the autonomous communities that formally recognize comarcas, the categories specific to those communities should use "comarcas / comarques" as appropriate.
- 1) seems plausible to me - in fact, with "region" there always will be confusion:
- the term shoud't be applied to administrative levels, but to other areas (cf. w:region: In general, a region is a medium-scale area of land or water, smaller than the whole areas of interest (which could be, for example, the world, a nation, a river basin, mountain range, and so on), and larger than a specific site. - see there for more)
- in fact, in some languages/countries, the word is used for administration, in the meaning of unit - compare Category:Regions of Italy, Category:Regions of France (both admin toplevel, NUTS-2), see w:region#Administrative regions for all
- thus, the should all be moved to the local language term instead of english: Category:Regiones of Italy, Category:Régions of France, not to mix up different things, the more, if the word is vague even within administration of Spain W!B: (talk) 22:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
- As I stated in Commons:Categories for discussion/Current requests/2009/09/Category:Regions of Catalonia, the matter is quite complex and we have four official languages in Spain. So such changes can only be made if there are clear definitions of the three or four types of regions in Spain AND there is a clear and active support of at the very least one Spanish administrator. --Foroa (talk) 22:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I will point out again that at the moment the category page says "Español: Comarcas de España", so it shouldn't be used for (for example) mancomunidades. And I certainly agree that we need to accommodate the multi-language issue in terms of category names (and further in terms of remarks at the top of the category pages); as far as category names, is there any autonomous community where it is unclear what would be the appropriate language? I would assume Gallego in Galicia, Catalan/Valencian (same language) in Catalonia & Valencia, Basque in the Basque Country and Navarre, Castilian/Spanish (same language, at least for the relevant vocabulary, with apologies to the Andalusians etc.) elsewhere. Maybe Asturian in Asturias? - Jmabel ! talk 06:36, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Agree to rename it "Comarcas of Spain" (if this category should only contain comarcas), as to rename "Regions of Catalonia" back to "Comarcas of Catalonia" "Comarca" is something well defined (in whole Spain), and "Region" is vague. The actual Category:Regions of Catalonia contains the "comarcas" and should be renamed as well (also Category:Regions of Girona which is a subset, to Category:Comarcas of Girona). Jack ma (talk) 09:29, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Closing thread. Please rename "Regions" to "Comarcas" if they hold only such subcategories. Create a new Comarcas categories where needed to hold such subcategories. -- User:Docu at 10:23, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
I assume subtilities is subtleties, not subtitles. I'm not sure the Spanish admins have been a lot better on that than some of the rest of us.
Let us continue the discussion of exactly what to do at Category talk:Regions of Spain, since it seems we have at least a loose consensus and this is theoretically a closed discussion. - Jmabel ! talk 01:45, 11 January 2010 (UTC)