Commons:Categories for discussion/2010/01/Category:Executive Departments of the United States

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to: navigation, search
This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Executive Departments of the United States[edit]

Rename Category:Department of State of the United States (talk) to Category:United States Department of State (326 entries moved, 0 to go)
Rename Category:Department of Justice of the United States (talk) to Category:United States Department of Justice (120 entries moved, 0 to go)
Rename Category:Officials of the Department of Justice of the United States to Category:Officials of the United States Department of Justice (9 entries moved, 0 to go)
Rename Category:Department of Labor of the United States (talk) to Category:United States Department of Labor (45 entries moved, 0 to go)
Rename Category:U.S. Department of Labor appointees to Category:United States Department of Labor appointees (0 entries moved, 0 to go)
Rename Category:U.S. Department of Commerce (talk) to Category:United States Department of Commerce (61 entries moved, 0 to go)

I recommend the following category name changes so the category names reflect the correct name of the organizations (please see Wikipedia & the way these organizations spell out their names). As can be seen with Category:Executive Departments of the United States, most the cats already correctly reflect these organizations with “United States” in front of the organization. Thanks! FieldMarine (talk) 15:16, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Although this nomination is nearly a year old, it looks like no notice was ever given on the category page. I will add that and hope that produces some discussion. - Jmabel ! talk 08:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
There has been discussions elsewhere: User_talk:Foroa/archive_2010#Cat_Changes_for_USG_orgs: the categories are named according to Commons conventions (topic of country) and for once, correspond with the wikipedia name too. On Commons, we have 3 times less category names (than on the en:wikipedia) that start with "United States. --Foroa (talk) 08:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
I agree the commons convention is good to use, but not when there is an official name and the convention changes it. For example, the official name of the USMC is United States Marine Corps, so why should we make it Marine Corps of the United States when the convention changes the name away from it's official one. The naming convention should not change a name away from an official name. FieldMarine (talk) 13:14, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
Agree such as for United States Marine Corps, but as you can see here, the departments have no United States prefix, this is rather a wikipedia naming convention. For translations from other languages, this is another debate because their "offcial" English names tend to be non official and for some strange reasons, most people want the name of the country in the beginning of the name. --Foroa (talk) 14:56, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
I disagree with you that the U.S. departments do not use United States in their title. Please see these official logos here, here and here. Please see the official website for the U.S Department of Labor here, the U.S. Departmemt of State here, the U.S. Departmemt of Treasury here or the U.S. Department of Defense here. IMHO, these agencies use United States in their title. FieldMarine (talk) 06:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Some do, some don't. Please stick to ones that are discussed here. An overview of the seals in en:United States federal executive departments shows clearly which ones have the US prefix integrated in their name. --Foroa (talk) 06:47, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
In looking just at a specific case, the United States Department of Labor, whose category had edits which removed "United States" from its name, should be Category:United States Department of Labor to reflect its proper name. Their website shows they use it here as well as the front page of their strategic plan here as well as their budget overview here or the sign in front of the building here. These websites, documents and files clearly show the proper name is United States Department of Labor. Thus, I recommend we change this category back to Category:United States Department of Labor to reflect the proper name. FieldMarine (talk) 13:39, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, but that's all the time your interpretation. The abbreviation is DOL (on all their sites such as www.dol.gov), but for their external communication, they glue United States in front of them because there are hundreds of departments of Labor in the world. Look at their seals, logos and here, in the US, it is called "Department of Labor". Even in the laws] and here, there is only Department of Labor. --Foroa (talk) 14:57, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Precisely my point, as mentioned above DOL is an abbreviation of the official title of United States Department of Labor. In reference to the two laws posted above, the 2d page, 1st column on each CFR shows the name in the official address as United States Department of Labor. FieldMarine (talk) 15:30, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
You clearly want to absolutely find United States in front of the name. I'll stop, but you can search here in the official US Government Manual. --Foroa (talk) 16:28, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
My goal is to use the correct name for the category. So far, I'm not convienced it's properly named as it stands. That is why it is here for discussion to gain consensus. FieldMarine (talk) 16:55, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment -- Personally I don't object to renaming some of these categories, for disambiguation. While, in retrospect, it might seem logical for all US Federal agencies should have been officially named the "United States Department of Xxxx". However, due to local parochialism, most or none of these agencies included "United States" in their official names. I believe other respondents here are correct that, due to inertia, and continued local parochialism, most of these agencies retain their original non-intenational official names.

    In all cases the text in the body of the actual category should spell out the actual official name, even when the official name is not disambiguous.

    As others have observed, when an agency already has a disambiguous name like the United States Marine Corps, the category should remain at that name. Geo Swan (talk) 00:36, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

  • Symbol support vote.svg Support moving all and redirecting: "United States Department of Justice" and "United States Department of Labor" are by far the most common unambiguous English-language names of these English-language subjects. Same for the U.S. Department of State (which is a bit awkward in any unambiguated form). Keep in mind that most U.S. states also have a "Department of Labor", so the issue of disambiguating this name in the United States has existed for decades before Commons. There are dozens of departments of labor in the United States, but only one "United States Department of Labor" (though that is sometimes also called "the federal Department of Labor"). And the United States Department of Justice also uses that long form of its own name; Americans also use it as the name. And the tendency over the last few decades has been to shift further towards using "United States" on the front of names, and away from "of the United States". "Department of Justice of the United States" or "Department of Labor of the United States" as a Commons name could only appropriate if two claims are true: (1) that somehow "United States" isn't a real name, despite a department, all of its subdivisions, and native speakers using it constantly, even in official correspondence; then (2) a Commons convention for disambiguation (designed for cases when an entity has no standard English title) is more important than the standard that the English language itself already uses (e.g. for U.S. federal departments). Example for the USDOJ:
    • http://www.justice.gov/ says "United States Department of Justice" with the page title "Welcome to the United States Department of Justice", then uses "Department of Justice" afterwards.
    • Google hits: about 2,170,000 results for "United States Department of Justice"; about About 951,000 results for "Department of Justice of the United States".
    • Google hits for abbreviations: about 29,800,000 results for "DOJ" (which may have multiple meanings); About 1,730,000 results for "USDOJ"; about 45,700 results for "DOJUS" (Department of Justice isn't even in the top 100 results); about 395 results for "DOJOTUS" (Department of Justice isn't even in the top 100 results)
--Closeapple (talk) 03:15, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Renamed, consensus appears to favor aligning the categories under one naming schema. Discussion has not changed since late 2011 after beginning in early 2010. Blurpeace 18:23, 5 July 2012 (UTC)