Commons:Categories for discussion/2011/01/Category:Or (heraldry)

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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Or (heraldry)[edit]

There was mentioned in the discussion Commons:Categories for discussion/2010/02/Coats of arms by tinctures by the way, that "according to en.wp: Or is frequently spelt with a capital letter (e.g. Gules, a fess Or) so as not to confuse it with the conjunction or." I emphasise, frequently, not ever.

This statement in the en:Or (heraldry) article has no specific source and is too vague. Capitalization (spelling) of other tinctures was also not clarified. I think, it looks very strangely when one of tinctures is with capital letter and all others are not. The reason "not to confuse it with the conjunction or" seems to be not acute as regards Commons categories.

There exist about 32 "Or" categories with capital letter and about 110 categories with small "or". Names which begin with the word "Or" are not counted. --ŠJů (talk) 18:49, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Good finding. While I generally don't like lower/upper case mixups, I can live with the preferences of the Heraldic specialists. --Foroa (talk) 13:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
As I found, the main criterium is not the type of category and context but that category branches built by Ö prefer "O" and category branches built by BrightRaven, VIGNERON Skim and some others prefer "o". I see no other distinction between Vert a saltire Or and Vert a fess or than who created them. It would be strange to deal with one rename request o→O if there exist 110 other categories with "o". (This request was why I began to ocupy by this.) I'm not sure that personal preferences of one or two users can be considered itself as representating whole heraldry without relevant sources, references, arguments. We haven't judge which user is more "specialist" but who bring better reasons and solutions.--ŠJů (talk) 23:09, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
I think I only created one of these categories. I used capital O to be consistent with all the supercategeries for combinations of tinctures. That is also why I suggested moving a category. But then I had not realised that there are so many categories with lower case o. I have no real preference. Renaming the supercategories (and a few subcategories) to use lower case seems like an equally good solution. /Ö 14:33, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
If the only reason to use capital O is to avoid confusion with the conjunction 'or', I think that risk is small. (Unless we start getting more long and complicated category names like Category:Per fess Gules and Argent in chief a lion passant Or and in base a kris and kampilan saltirewise of the first hilted Sable.) /Ö 14:38, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
I think the best choice is to rename all categories with Or in categories with or. --Massimop (talk) 15:26, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment I’m not a specialist of english typography but someones (who?) tell me to use Or instead of or in order to avoid confusion with or (argent or Or and not Argent or or). Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 17:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment I'm creating new cats with small "or", but I have no preference. Please tell me if any conclusion is reached (in case I miss it) so that I would abide to whatever is decided.--- Darwin Ahoy! 16:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose It's quite usual to see Or capitalised in heraldry; I think I would prefer to see the lowercase "or"s capitalised, rather than the other way round. — OwenBlacker | Discussion 10:35, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose I agree with Mr Blacker above: if we are to be consistent, this ought to be in favour of capitalising the tincture's name. Even if there might be a smaller risk of confusing the tincture with the conjunction in Commons file names and categories, this is largely irrelevant because the convention is old and widespread in the field of heraldry and we ought to follow the example of professionals. Indeed, some authorities capitalise all tinctures (see examples here), perhaps for the sake of consistency, but I understand most only do this for Or. Waltham, The Duke of 12:46, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose Or is customarily capitalized, even when the other tinctures are not. As far as capitalizing the remaining tinctures, that is a preference. Η936631 (talk) 16:06, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't think there's any strict rule in the conventions of English-language heraldic "blazoning" saying that one or the other is definitely incorrect, but I think I would probably prefer capitalized "Or" for general clarity... AnonMoos 14:46, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment Is this still running? It's been over two months without a comment and I think there is something of a consensus here. Waltham, The Duke of 08:07, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose In official heraldry blasoning languages all colours and metals are written with capital letters, so it should all be Or.137.224.252.10 06:55, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
And I suppose you have a source for such an affirmation?--- Darwin Ahoy! 09:16, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose If this is still running. As many of us will know there is little or no punctuation in a blazon. This can be seen in most grants of arms. If a shield is blazoned correctly the tincture comes at the end of the phrase (Argent two bars between as many mullets Sable). So we would know that not only are the bars Sable, but the two mullets are as well. It also tells us the relationship between the bars and the mullets - in fact everything we need to know to be able to draw it. And we know that the information is complete because the tincture is at the end.
Not so long ago it was the custom on English and Scottish grants to skriven all the lettering in black except for names, the start of paragraphs and the first capitalised letters of the tinctures. To that end ALL tinctures should be capitalised - at least when dealing with UK heraldry or the blazon is written in English. Kiltpin (talk) 19:27, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Names with a capital letter[edit]

Rename Category:Argent and Or in heraldry to Category:Argent and or in heraldry (0 entries moved, 63 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, azure, Or in heraldry to Category:Argent, azure, or in heraldry (0 entries moved, 460 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, azure, gules, Or in heraldry to Category:Argent, azure, gules, or in heraldry (0 entries moved, 711 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, azure, gules, Or, sable in heraldry to Category:Argent, azure, gules, or, sable in heraldry (0 entries moved, 248 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, azure, gules, Or, sable, vert in heraldry to Category:Argent, azure, gules, or, sable, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 51 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, azure, gules, Or, vert in heraldry to Category:Argent, azure, gules, or, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 146 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, azure, Or, sable in heraldry to Category:Argent, azure, or, sable in heraldry (0 entries moved, 142 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, azure, Or, sable, vert in heraldry to Category:Argent, azure, or, sable, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 25 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, azure, Or, vert in heraldry to Category:Argent, azure, or, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 88 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, gules, Or in heraldry to Category:Argent, gules, or in heraldry (0 entries moved, 437 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, gules, Or, sable in heraldry to Category:Argent, gules, or, sable in heraldry (0 entries moved, 245 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, gules, Or, sable, vert in heraldry to Category:Argent, gules, or, sable, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 59 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, gules, Or, vert in heraldry to Category:Argent, gules, or, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 158 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, Or, sable in heraldry to Category:Argent, or, sable in heraldry (0 entries moved, 103 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, Or, sable, vert in heraldry to Category:Argent, or, sable, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 34 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, Or, vert in heraldry to Category:Argent, or, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 65 to go)
Rename Category:Argent, purpure, Or in heraldry (talk) to Category:Argent, purpure, or in heraldry (0 entries moved, 14 to go)
Rename Category:Azure and Or in heraldry to Category:Azure and or in heraldry (0 entries moved, 796 to go)
Rename Category:Azure, gules, Or in heraldry to Category:Azure, gules, or in heraldry (0 entries moved, 374 to go)
Rename Category:Azure, gules, Or, sable in heraldry to Category:Azure, gules, or, sable in heraldry (0 entries moved, 57 to go)
Rename Category:Azure, gules, Or, sable, vert in heraldry to Category:Azure, gules, or, sable, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 14 to go)
Rename Category:Azure, gules, Or, vert in heraldry to Category:Azure, gules, or, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 33 to go)
Rename Category:Azure, Or, sable in heraldry to Category:Azure, or, sable in heraldry (0 entries moved, 60 to go)
Rename Category:Azure, Or, sable, vert in heraldry to Category:Azure, or, sable, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 11 to go)
Rename Category:Azure, Or, vert in heraldry to Category:Azure, or, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 34 to go)
Rename Category:Azure a five rays Or to Category:Azure a five rays or (0 entries moved, 5 to go)
Rename Category:Azure a fleur-de-lis Or to Category:Azure a fleur-de-lis or (0 entries moved, 17 to go)
Rename Category:Gules and Or in heraldry to Category:Gules and or in heraldry (0 entries moved, 795 to go)
Rename Category:Gules, Or, sable in heraldry to Category:Gules, or, sable in heraldry (0 entries moved, 218 to go)
Rename Category:Gules, Or, sable, vert in heraldry to Category:Gules, or, sable, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 30 to go)
Rename Category:Gules, Or, vert in heraldry to Category:Gules, or, vert in heraldry (0 entries moved, 76 to go)
Rename Category:Vert a saltire Or to Category:Vert a saltire or (0 entries moved, 3 to go)

Names with a small letter[edit]


Rename all categories with lowercase "or" to uppercase "Or". King of ♠ 02:13, 13 November 2012 (UTC)