Commons:Categories for discussion/2007/07/Category:Satellite pictures of the Middle East

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Category:Satellite pictures of the Middle East[edit]

Juice Lemon keeps removing the following subcategories from Category:Satellite pictures of the Middle East.

There has been some related discussion here:

Please see the many subcategories of Category:Middle East and w:Category:Middle East. There is no logical reason for removing subcategories from Category:Satellite pictures of the Middle East.

Juiced Lemon is French, I believe. Please see the many Middle East subcategories at


Commons Wikimedia is not hypertext encyclopedia, but a vault for data storage. So, use of category pages is incidental in the Wikipedia projects, but essential in the Commons project. Therefore, we are not required to copy our Topics substructure from other encyclopedia projects.

In particular, we have to provide clear and clean structures in order to allow easy browsing. They are thousands regions or areas on the Earth, and we cannot build understanding and manageable structures without scheme.

I have proposed a scheme: Commons:Territorial division of the World. The lands on Earth are divided in 7 continents, and some isolated islands. Continents are divided in subregions, matching the United Nations division of the World. In this scheme, there are Northern Africa and Western Asia, but not Middle East.

Middle East is mainly a geostrategic region, and has no definite limits (Yemen, but no Sudan?). More, this is a transcontinental region. So, I asked Timeshifter to propose an alternative scheme: he refused. Consequently, I have removed Category:Satellite pictures of Jordan and other subcategories from Category:Satellite pictures of the Middle East. Category:Satellite pictures of Jordan have to be categorized as any other similar category in 3 categories:

  • Geography of COUNTRY
  • Satellite pictures by country
  • Satellite pictures of CONTINENT

Not less, not more. This is standard feature, therefore a manageable one. --Juiced lemon 09:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

As I said already on your user talk page we should use the existing categorization methods. The methods used at BOTH wikimedia commons and wikipedia. You are the one trying to propose a radically different categorization scheme. The Middle East crosses over 2 continents, Asia and Africa. So it will not fit in YOUR proposed categorization scheme. But it fits fine in the existing commons categorization scheme.
Commons:Categories#Category structure does not prevent interconnections between categories. It says "All categories (except CommonsRoot) should be contained in at least one other category."
Also see my comments in the previous section.
You started editing YOUR draft proposal, Commons:Territorial division of the World, on May 24, 2007. See the history:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Territorial_division_of_the_World&action=history
You seem to have a habit of making unilateral declarations of policy. Many people have objected to many of your edits. See: Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems. --Timeshifter 10:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Juiced lemon is removing satellite picture subcategories from overall satellite picture categories. He uses the edit summary "pictures are not drawings". Juiced lemon is oftentimes illogical in his categorization. He has been mentioned unfavorably many times at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems. He ignores much of what people say to him. He ignores my replies to his points here.
I believe Juiced lemon is also wrong to remove satellite pictures from being subcategories of maps. It depends on how one defines maps. Many atlases include satellite pictures. Oftentimes satellite pictures have lines drawn in for the borders. Mapmakers want easy access to the satellite photos in order to add borders, cities, labels, etc.. And in any case the satellite pictures show topographical features. Topographical maps are considered maps. And finally, people looking for maps often want to see satellite maps/photos. For the topographic elements. I do. I believe that much of the whole problem with Juiced lemon is that he doesn't look at map categorization from the point of view of the average reader. --Timeshifter 20:49, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Since satellite pictures are not considered maps by some people I will remove them from map categories. I can link to them instead as a related category. --Timeshifter 17:21, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
It seems that User:Jeff G. agrees with me about the satellite pictures. See this diff. He put back a subcategory in Category:Satellite pictures of the Middle East. --Timeshifter 17:25, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
It seems that Xavier also agrees with me about the subcategories of Category:Satellite pictures of the Middle East. See this diff --Timeshifter 20:14, 9 July 2007 (UTC)