Commons:Deletion requests/Boldini paintings

This deletion debate is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

[edit] Boldini paintings

• Image:Bernhardt, Sarah di Giovanni Boldini.jpg
• Image:Giovanni Boldini - La marchesa Luisa Casati con penne di pavone (Portrait of the Marquise).jpg
• Image:Giovanni Boldini (1842-1931), La Marchesa Luisa Casati (1881-1957) con un levriero.jpg
• Image:Elizabeth Drexel.jpg
• Image:Giovanni Boldini Crossing the Street.jpg
• Image:Giovanni Boldini Madame Leclanche.jpg
• Image:Giovanni Boldini Mademoiselle Lantelme.jpg
• Image:Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec by Giovanni Boldini.jpg
• Image:250px-Montesquiou, Robert de - Boldini.jpg
• Image:Giovanni Boldini (1842-1931) - A Portrait of John Singer Sargent.jpg
• Image:Giovanni Boldini (1842-1931) -John Singer Sargent(Standing).jpg
• Image:Marthe Bibesco Boldini.jpg
• Image:Verdi.jpg

Copyvio. A French court ruling in October 2005 applied war extensions to the works of painter Boldini, so that they will not enter Public Domain until late 2016 = 1932 (painter's death year + 1) + 70 + 14 years + 272 days.

• Boldini was an Italian painter living in France. In 1872 he settled in Paris at the age of 30, taking a studio on the Place Pigalle. source.
• In the 12 october 2005 jugement, the Paris appeal court says Considérant que Giovanni Boldini est décédé à Paris, le 11 janvier 1931, qu'il n'est pas contesté que le portrait du compositeur VERDI, objet du litige, a été divulgué en France, de sorte que la France est, au sens de l'article 5 de la convention de Berne, le pays d'origine de l'Oeuvre ; que celle-ci doit donc bénéficier de la protection accordée aux auteurs par la loi française... (Considering that [...] no objection has been made that the portrait of composer VERDI, object of the litigation, was disclosed in France, so that France is, in the sense of article 5 of the Berne convention, the country of origin of the work ; that this work must accordingly receive the benefit of the protection granted to authors by French law...)
• The 70+14 years +272 days calculation has been used last may, to decide that two works had to be removed from the French language Wikisource : fr:s:Wikisource:Pages_soupçonnées_de_copyright#Mai

Teofilo 12:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep to all. The images are public domain in the whole world, except in France. The Commons project is international, so, I see no reason to delete them just because they are not PD in one country. There's another example of this in Mexico, where the copyright protection of all works is life + 100 years and yet, commons allows the works which are copyrighted in Mexico, but PD in the rest of the world. A better solution would be not to use these images on fr.wikipedia. Bogdan 17:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

  That contradicts the advice given at Commons:Licensing#Country-specific_laws, which says to upload to the commons only if the work was PD in both the country of origin (France in the case of Boldini) and the U.S. At the very least I would suggest that if these images are kept, they be tagged to indicate that they are still under copyright in France until 2016 due to wartime copyright extensions, but are PD in other 70 years p.m.a. countries. Lupo 07:05, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

  France is the country of origin for some works of his, but Italy is for others... Furthermore, the question is pending: the 70 years limit was imposed in the whole E.U. to harmonize legislations in the whole of it by picking the longest term (the German one). Now it comes out that France has yet another, higher term, which only applies to their own authors and not to those of other countries? Absurd. This sentence [1] says in effect that the 70 yrs span INCLUDES the war years extention. The Boldini sentence above cited rejects this opinion. Yet the issue is pending before the High court (appeal was made against this sentence), and may not be dealt with as settled. G.dallorto 11:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Can you name at least one picture Boldini created in Italy ?

From Columbia Encyclopedia: "Having worked in Florence and London, he reached his peak of creativity and success in Paris". Bogdan 20:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

We'll see what the en:Court_of_Cassation_(France) decides. In case the Court of Cassation enforces the 70+14 calculation, the following procedure may apply : If the member state fails to pass the required national legislation, or if the national legislation does not adequately comply with the requirements of the directive, the European Commission can initiate legal action against the member state in the European Court of Justice. (en:European Union directive) Teofilo 19:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep to all. If we followed every copyright law in France, we wouldn't have any images of anything French here in Commons or in any Wikimedia project. A clause with an execpetion for use on fr.wikipedia is more than enough. Furthermore, I think we need a fr-noneuropean.wikipedia in that international language which won't have to follow all these essentially stupid copyright laws in France and Belgium. Same goes for the idiotic copyfraud that the national museums of Britain try to impose on paintings that have been in the public domain for centuries. --AndreasPraefcke 08:55, 18 October 2006 (UTC) PS: if someone choses to delete the paintings in a misguided attempt to obey one French court ruling, please upload them at least to de.wikipedia first.
• Keep to all. This wish to follow all the laws of the world at the same time is simply impossible. We wasted tons of photos because only in germany they were copyrighted. Just put a disclaimer in the talk page. --Jollyroger 11:50, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Kept, on the basis of this discussion. Teofilo can post a new deletion request, should a French court order radically change the scenery. --Lumijaguaari (моє обговорення) 19:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)