Commons:Village pump/Archive/2008Apr

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Children's use of commons?

A contributor recently applied a {{copyvio}} tag to an image I uploaded. I dispute that tag application. But that is another matter.

My question here concerns the edit summary, which said:

(Clear copyviolation plus don't upload sick images because children also use Commons.)

This image is in the same position as the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse images. Those images can also be seen as potentially shocking. The Abu Ghraib images are, however, important. And so is the Khadr image.

For the last six years the DoD has been claiming that w:Omar Khadr was shot after he burst from cover, and threw a grenade that "murdered" a "medic". The Prosecution had claimed, for the last six years, that Khadr had to have been the guy who mortally wounded w:Christopher Speer, because he was the sole survivor of the skirmish.

In fact, due to a human failure by a staff member on the w:Office of Military Commissions, a copy of the testimony of the GI who shot Khadr was accidentally distributed to the Press in unredacted form. It revealed the GI who shot him not only didn't see who threw the grenade, but that he shot Khadr in the back. He saw Khadr facing away from the skirmish, leaning against a bush. Khadr was already seriously wounded by the aerial bombardment that leveled the compound where the skirmish took place.

Not only wasn't Khadr the sole survivor the GI's testimony made clear that he had killed an adult combatant after the grenade that wounded Speer was thrown.

Khadr's Prosecution has suppressed exculpatory evidence -- something that would not be allowed in either a civilian court of law or in a court martial.

This image is important because it shows the exit wounds in Khadr's chest, confirming that he was shot in the back.

Obviously if someone advocated that the Abu Ghraib images should be deleted they did not make a convincing case. So, why shouldn't the same arguments and counter-arguments would apply here?

Cheers! Geo Swan 20:12, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The general rule that applies is very simple: Commons is not censored. Basically saying, there are two inclusion criteria: It is a free image according to Commons:Licensing and it is useful/notable in some way per Commons:Project scope. As for this specific image it is quite clear that it falls within the project scope. I can't tell you whether or not the image is copyright violation. But think of the children is not a valid reason to delete images from Commons. -- Bryan (talk to me) 20:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Are you telling me since Commons is not censored I can upload extremely dirty porn images or ones showing Western soldiers cut-up to pieces in war zones? My reason started with "Copyrightviolation" and the "children may watch the photo" came last just as a suggestion to you (the uploader). Before you upload such sick images you should have some common sense that children may watch them and will cause problems to them. Unless you don't care about that and just want to do these things for your own satisfaction reasons. The fact is that the photo is a clear copyvio and must be deleted. The photo was not taken by an "unknown GI" but by the press most likely and they own the rights to it...not the Omar's family.--Executioner 17:35, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
So are we going to delete these Mohammad files? Code·is·poetry 18:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
There are two separate issues here. one is copyvio the other is censorship. Please lets try not to get them mixed up.
Otherwise with regards to censorship I have a question: while it is great (and I think necessary) that commons is not censored, is there, or should there be, tag templates that indicate that an image might not be suitable for all audiences/children? What's your opinion on PICS and mediawiki/wikimedia? Is there policy about this? --Inkwina (talk • contribs) 19:20, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 Support I think it is a good idea to have a sort of warning tag at least for images such as the one mentioned above (Omar Khadr) and eventually also, or a separate one, for sexually explicit images. -- Túrelio 21:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
It would go here but I don't think we need to play mother. It's not our job to decide what may or may not be suitable for others. And where would they see these disclaimers? On the image page? I would support a note of caution perhaps, like w:Wikipedia:Content disclaimer, somewhere more obvious than a little link at the bottom. - Rocket000 04:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Challenger asserts this image was taken by a member of the press. Note: I think this DoD witness statement makes clear this image, and a couple of dozen others, were taken by GIs.
I'd like to ask the challenger be more careful in their choice of language. In particular, I think the following comment sails far too close for comfort to being a violation of the no personal attack policy:
Before you upload such sick images you should have some common sense that children may watch them and will cause problems to them. Unless you don't care about that and just want to do these things for your own satisfaction reasons.
Cheers! Geo Swan 21:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

The same user (User:Executioner) has just tagged two other images of the same battle as requiring "Speedy Deletion" for equally spurious reasons. Referring to users as "anti-Islam", accusing them of "stealing the images" and berating me for pointing out the source of the images by saying I am "not an administrator" are all clearly getting out of hand. There is no reason that images like Image:Khadr Medic.png should even need to be censored - when I reverted his changes, he accused me of being a sockpuppet of Geo Swan. rolls eyes. Anyways, there are plenty of "graphic" images of sex or violence on Commons, but they are kept as long as they are scholastic or of historical importance. Sherurcij 21:43, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe a warning tag is a good idea if it could be added to images such as this one, I think it's the law in USA to warn the public before they see images that may contain bodies of people in horrible conditions. The uploader here is trying to focus on me instead of focusing on the problems of the image he uploaded. I feel like if he's trying to bully me, by intimidating me not to tag any of the images he uploads. I am not an American and my English may not be so great so please don't use every word I type here against me, that is usually done in courts and this aint a court. Why is Geo Swan talking so much about me in a discussion that is based on deleting a possible copyvio image that he uploaded. The reason why I suspected Geo Swan and Shrurcij to be sockpuppets of one another is because they both show up at every discussion and feel the same exact way about me and the image in question. The chances of 2 separate people from different locations to think of me in this fashion on Commons is very slim and that is why I suspected them. They are like tag team partners everywhere, anyway this is another issue.--Executioner 07:00, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Point of order -- In addition to several hints that challenger is concerned that Sherurcij and I are sockpuppets, challenger has outright accused us of being sockpuppets -- twice, [1], [2].
  • Point of order -- I do not believe I have mentioned challenger, by name, a single time, in this forum. I dispute I am trying to intimidate him or her. I do not think I need to apologize for addressing the issues that are in dispute, or for asking him or her to respond to counter-arguments, based on policy. Challenger has, I believe, a good-faith misconception on copyright. I dispute trying to engage challenger in a civil discussion is intimidation. Geo Swan 17:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

March 18

New image search interface

I use the image search on Commons a lot, almost everyday for my work. Since a few weeks, the interface has changed and the results displayed are really so narrowed that it has become almost impossible to make a real search. If you know exactly what you are looking for, you'll find it, but if you are making just a search to get ideas, the fishing expedition will be very poor.

I liked it better as it was before. Now, searching images on Commons has become almost useless.

Will there be new improvements? Is this a transition period towards something better? It would be sad to lose the great tool Commons search has been until now.

Thank you! —the preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.71.242.91 (talk • contribs) 28 March 2008

You might try a category tree search to see if it meets your needs better. Be aware of the "Category" links (on most pages). They may help you browse the content. Also, you can use the "site" parameter of Google to restrict your search to Commons.
The main purpose of Commons is to support editors of the Wikipedias in various languages find illustrations for articles that they are writing. That said, if we can support users like you as well, that is all to the good. Walter Siegmund (talk) 15:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
The search backend has not changed, so there should be no changes in the search. What slightly has changed is how translated namespaces are handled, but as Commons' default language is English, that should not be in effect. -- Bryan (talk to me) 18:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Have you not used Mayflower? pfctdayelise (说什么?) 12:01, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Mayflower is currently of restricted use as its index is 5 months out of date - the last update was 24 October 2007. Man vyi 13:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the index does not seem to be updated regularly. The Oct 2007 update was done after I agitated about it being so out of date at that time. We ought to think about lowering the profile of that search engine, or perhaps getting another volunteer who can re-index much more frequently. How up to date would eg a member of the press trying to find a photo expect our main search engine to be? 24 hours? Certainly not more than a week. --MichaelMaggs 22:07, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Grooh. That's so annoying. :( Surely it's just run-a-script type update. I will email Tangotango, although I'm not confident of a response... pfctdayelise (说什么?) 12:10, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Damn - hadn't realised that. I've often used Mayflower to get hold of images that haven't made it into the "correct" (:)) category yet. Ah well - at least I now know :( --Herby talk thyme 12:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

@original requester: Could you please describe precisely what search function you are using and what you are missing in the new search function ? Are the missing items in the search function itself or in the display of the results ? Would it be possible to give a couple of search examples and commented results ? We would appreciate a detailed specification of your additional needs or whishes. --Foroa 13:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

March 29

What happens in that case?

If a picture on Flickr was CC-BY or CC-BY-SA when it was uploaded on Wikimedia Commons and now with a non-free licence? Like that one (see the warning the author added). I suppose he can't decide to forbid the use of a picture he already released in the public domain or with a free licence but I'm not sure... --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 06:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

CC-licenses aren't retractable, and releasing an image into the public domain is irrevocable as well. The flickr license has been reviewed, so the image can stay, even if the license was changed afterwards. --rimshottalk 07:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Should we delete the author's comment? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 07:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
CC-licenses aren't retractable: this should also be communicated to the author/photographer. -- Túrelio 07:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I will. Is there any flickr template to the effect of "this image was retrieved while it was freely licensed, so even though it had a license change on flickr, the license shown here still applies"? --rimshottalk 09:23, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I've tried to "communicate" this particular effect of the CC license grant to the author. --rimshottalk 09:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure he will read your message since he only edited this picture on Commons. He actually didn't realize there were other pictures by him on Commons. I copied-pasted the text you modified on those pictures. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 09:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
CC-licenses are retractable, in the sense that the person can cease to offer it under the terms of a CC license at any time; it is a wikimedia rule that photographer's cannot revoke free licenses, not a legal statement. However, they cannot control distribution of the image under the CC license by other people, such as by Commons. Therefore the user cannot stop us using the previously granted CC license. The change of license is irrelevant as we have the bot confirmation of the original (indeed the photographer's edit adds additional confirmation), so does not need marking. If you want to communicate with the user - do it on Flickr, not Commons, you'll likely get a response then.
However, with respect to this image I wonder if we actually want it. Therefore I'll probably put it on COM:DEL later, as there is no copyright concern so no urgency.--Nilfanion 09:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I've got another question about those cases. This picture of Sophie Ellis-Bextor had been cropped out from a picture available on Flickr that is now tagged with another licence. Since it was CC-BY before, could I make another crop from the original and upload it here with the original CC-BY licence? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 09:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
No. The work is unfree now and we cannot use it to generate a freely licensed work now (if we had a local copy we could use that).--Nilfanion 09:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) In this particular case, it's not a problem as the uncropped image was uploaded here as well. If that were not the case, it would be more complicated. The original uploader was granted the license for the full image, which should apply even after the licensing was changed. So, the original uploader should still have the right to upload the full image even after uploading a crop. The question is whether uploading a crop under a CC license automatically means distribution of the full image under that license. I guess not, so no, not anyone would be able to just upload a different crop. This would only be possible to those who have been granted a CC license for the full image. IANAL, so the usual disclaimers apply ;) --rimshottalk 09:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

copyright image

Hi, I suspect that this image Image:VvMiramar castle.jpg is violation of copyright. It say self-made, but it seem strange for that there is pattern from print. I suspect that this is image from book scanned. Please how is correct prosedure for to investigating this. Thank you. —the preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.8.60.245 (talk • contribs) 23:04, 5. Mär. 2008

Done Deleted 14. March 2008, see Commons:Deletion requests/Image:VvMiramar castle.jpg. --GeorgHH • talk   22:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

March 6

>5 MB file size

Commonist currently lacks the capability to ignore warnings... so when I upgraded to a 12 MP camera (which takes photos that skirt about 5 MB), I'm now getting a lot of failed Commonist uploads because of the warning prompt when you try to upload a photo bigger than 5 MB. Might it be possible to increase the file size warning to reflect the ever-increasing power of cameras... perhaps upping it to prompt at 10 MB rather than 5? --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 19:07, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

We can't change it :( It's a MediaWiki thing. I think it shouldn't even exist at all, but I was overruled. But really, if Commonist can't ignore warnings, then it is broken and needs fixing. pfctdayelise (说什么?) 11:41, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Alas, I get the feeling that there isn't much new development with Commonist. Does anybody know how Commonist works, though? If it just automatically goes through upload iterations as if I was doing it myself, perhaps a setting in the preferences could default to Ignore all warnings? --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 02:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Ugh, I hope this doesn't mess with Commons:Wikipedia Takes Manhattan. Can someone change user preferences on Commons so we can choose to ignore the warnings? It doesn't have to be default.--Pharos 19:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
There is no user preference relating to this tick box. I wrote a bug report asking for one (bugzilla:13514). pfctdayelise (说什么?) 04:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, that plan was rejected, so I tried another one: Increase (or disable) $wgUploadSizeWarning for Commons. --pfctdayelise (说什么?) 00:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Woo hoo -- looks like that one got approved? If so, it's a small win for a big cause. :) (I just needed to find in some way to work in a horrid and poorly-done pun) --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 02:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah! Tim is awesome. The warning is disabled as of r32488. I think that will tick by pretty soon. (check special:version) --pfctdayelise (说什么?) 04:21, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Excellent! And just it in time, too. Thanks for pushing this.--Pharos 06:11, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

March 24

Out of business

What happens with copyrights if a publisher that makes works with copyright goes out of business? Do the copyrights expire after a certain time? Do they pass to the owner of the publisher, or the creators of the work, or someone else? Or it doesn't make any difference, and the copyright belong to the publisher even if it has been out of business since decades ago? Thanos 00:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Copyrights can be and often are sold, just like any other business asset. If a publisher goes out of business, their copyrights were probably sold with the company's other assets. --Carnildo 21:27, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
See en:orphan works... AnonMoos 11:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Disruptive user

I know we have an Administrator's Noticeboard somewhere, but I never had to find it until now... and now I can't. Could someone either direct me to the right place or otherwise address User:Davenbelle aka Jack Merridew? Nothing but vandalism. Thanks! --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 00:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Hooray somebody's already on it. Cheers! --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 01:04, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
You never noticed that "Discussion menu" above. :) It gives you all the links. Rocket000 03:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Heyyy what'dya know... there was a time when I used to peruse through all of the topics in the Pump; now I just right-away scroll down to the bottom. I completely forgot that thing was up there. Considering the frequency of vandalism here, I'll bet it'll be several months before I find myself back here asking the very same question all over again. :P --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 04:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Koalorka/IWI email exchange regarding photo use

Um, what should we do with "galleries" like this: Koalorka/IWI email exchange regarding photo use. (Yes, those images should probably be deleted as "exclusive" rights isn't really what we like). Rocket000 03:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I took care of this issue. The "mail exchanges" are now in the user name space and the files are deleted. I warned the user, but with regard to his log it's the last time. Code·is·poetry 16:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much! Rocket000 10:41, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Wayne Ray

Is this a user page or what? Rocket000 07:30, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes. As the user already has a well filled user page I've deleted it & left a message on his user talk. Thanks scratch that - I am not sure - other opinions welcome --Herby talk thyme 07:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, that was my first instinct, but I'm not sure. Rocket000 07:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
On one hand it's a user page, on the other hand it is related to en:Wayne Ray. It's categorized in normal article categories and in category "User galleries". I don't see a problem with this page. --GeorgHH • talk   09:37, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
It's a bit odd, though, to have a user gallery sorted by language or photo proficiency. I think the ph-3 box should be at User:WayneRay only. --rimshottalk 09:44, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks GeorgHH, useful to see & I agree with Rimshot about the user box --Herby talk thyme 09:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, there's nothing with it. He's a notable writer and photographer and we're very happy to have him as a user too! It was just the way the page was structured that made me question it. I removed the ph-3 box and other things that belong on userpages, but added a link to his user page too. Also, even though technically it is, I won't consider this a "user gallery" anymore than en:Wayne Ray is a "user page", so I hope he understands why I "de-personalized" it. Rocket000 10:39, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Approval Poll outcome

(duplicate note for wider awareness, please discuss at the referenced page)...

Please see Commons:Administrators/Requests and votes/Voting Approval Poll/Results discussion ... I am not sure that we have arrived at a consensus for a change, since no option, even despite urging to select as many as one could tolerate, won a majority of votes for either suffrage or for admin qualification. Typically, no consensus == no change. But in this case, perhaps a longer polling time or some other approach might be warranted. Or not. ++Lar: t/c 19:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Why join?

A simple question that is in the title. 147.197.215.16 02:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Why not?
There is certainly nothing forcing you to, in fact I am aware of one user on the English Wikipedia whom is among the more prominent editors but has not registered an account. However, it helps to put some history with the name -- particularly helpful with variable IP's or with people whom edit on various machines. It just helps establish some sense of community. Also, you can use your userpage to describe what your purpose is for being here, and perhaps also add in some language to templates to assist users with recognising which languages you can speak, read, write, or understand. And while the Wiki Foundation doesn't seem to want to officially admit it, anonymous IPs tend to carry some less-than-friendly connotations. Giving yourself a username and making a history of good edits helps to establish you as a trusted user. Becoming a well-established editor makes life easier for people who scan their watchlist for unfamiliar names. I pretty much always check any edits made by an IP or by a username I do not recognise, so a name I have come to respect will mean less time I spend reviewing my watchlist. You don't have to join, but I don't see any significant harm in doing so. Cheers! --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 02:39, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Also, you're more anonymous when you register. Contributing as an anon lets everyone see your IP. Registering an account hides that from all but a handful of highly-trusted editors. People seem to totally miss this point. Contributing without an account is less private than contributing with an account. – Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 02:44, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
With respect to Wikimedia Commons specifically, you can't upload images unless you get an account. AnonMoos 11:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there a page to go to which explains more about commons? Bossi, it seems from your idea tthat it is just to hide the fact of that the person is editing from an IP. Are then any benefits and drawbacks and things explaining about logging in here or welcoming to commons etc? 147.197.215.16 12:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Actually now that you mentioned it, I just found exactly that: this article on the English Wikipedia provides good info which is generally true across all the Wikimedia Foundation websites; perhaps moreso here as AnonMoos points out above. Note that everybody currently needs to create an account individually for each Wiki, so registering an account at the English Wikipedia, for example, doesn't mean you'd right-away have an account here at Commons; you'd have to register another account (though you can use the same name if it's available). This link will take you to the account creation for Commons. This help page for commons provides some info, though I've never been a particular fan of the Wiki's help pages... I usually end up needing more help whenever I go in search for help, which is why my next step is to just ask the question here at the Village Pump. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 12:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Also, if you join and upload excellent images, you may get rich and famous, or at least earn a
-- Túrelio 14:45, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll think about it. Thanks for the help. 147.197.215.16 14:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Interwiki links

I recently noticed that the interwiki links disappeared from the left side. Is this a mistake or something intentional? Thanks! --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 02:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

They're still there for me. Did you change something in your skin? --rimshottalk 08:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
The links are back. Multichill 09:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Easy questions; easy answers! Bah to me and my bad coding. Maybe next time I won't use the Welcome page as my reference -- that's where I went to confirm that I can't see any interwiki links, when in retrospect I guess I should've used a more typical page. Thanks! --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 12:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Uploading a better version

A file that i created was uploaded onto here from Wikipedia. I have now just finished and am ready to upload a much better version but i just tried this and it would not let me. How do i upload the new version? Image:Grand Central trial route map.JPG is the original file. Simply south 14:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Good to see that you joined. The reason that you cannot upload the file is that new users (4 days IIRC) are not allowed to overwrite existing files. You could upload the improved file under a different name and ask here to have it overwritten by someone else. You could also just wait a few days. --rimshottalk 15:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll wait and see what happens, so i suppose Sunday or Monday then. Simply south 15:39, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Che Guevara images by Korda

I'd like to ask for comments on this deletion note from March 22: Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Guevarakorda2.jpg. The situation is pretty complex, with moral rights, copyright, and the validity of the {{PD-Cuba}} template all involved. There is some older discussion from 2006 at Commons:Che Guevara/deleted images, and a Wikipedia article about this very image at en:Che_Guevara_(photo). CBM 16:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Upload Error

Hi, lately while trying to upload a JPG file I got the error "Files of the MIME type "application/x-php" are not allowed to be uploaded.". I have never seen those errors before. Any ideas?--Jarekt 13:00, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you trying to upload a picture found on another site? (by putting the URL into the "source filename"?) While possible on a number of platforms, doing this often links to the wrong item: a .html or .php page is common, where you meant to upload the picture on that page instead. If you've got a source you'd like someone to look at, post it here and we'll take a look. ~Kylu (u|t) 15:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

April 2

Rubenstein Public Relations

I have had contact with this PR firm, one of the most influential and largest in the United States, since I worked with them at the Category:2007 Tribeca Film Festival last year (and will again this year). Like any good PR firm, they would like to work with Wikipedia. They realize they should not edit nor change articles to suit their clients interests, but they would like to know what they can do to contribute to Wikipedia. For instance, my work with them at TFF creates for us a lot of GFDL images of celebrities. They would like to forge a closer relationship with the Wikipedia community, and I have gone to a few lunches to discuss with them some ideas. A collaboration with PR agencies can create a wealth of opportunities for Wikipedians in the English-speaking world (such as attending film festivals), put us closer in touch with their clients' perspectives (which would help with some of our BLP issues on Wikipedia), and improve the projects as a whole. If anyone is interested in discussing the possibilities we might be able to have working with them, or have suggestions of things we would like, please leave it on my talk page. Dave --DavidShankbone 17:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

You're in the wrong place. This is Wikimedia Commons, the image and media repository for wiki projects. I think you wanted Wikipedia: try posting at the appropriate page on the Wikipedia Village pump. --MichaelMaggs 17:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
No, I'm in the right place, since we have photographers here who might like access to some events. Forgive my laziness that I didn't tailor the message to each project, but I think most people will understand there is a lot we can do in terms of media with a large and influential PR firm. --DavidShankbone 17:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Getting free images of public figures is a continuing issue on Wikipedia, and of course the images should be uploaded here if they're free. This sounds like a great prospect. CBM 18:51, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I believe that as long as photographers or copyright holders upload images with encyclopedic value, nobody will be asking about who they work for and what the motives are. I think there might be some sensitivity about editing articles in Wikipedia or even adding/replacing images, due to possible conflict of interest and lack of neutrality. But I do not think there would be any objection to image uploads, especially if the account holder discloses his/her association with PR firm. --Jarekt 21:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, right, so Wikimedia can become a free encyclopedic arm for Rubenstein Public Relations. No way. Nobody does nothing for nothing. Engaging them will precipitate a COI nightmare. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.76.87.102 (talk) 21:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

COI may not be encouraged, but it is certainly not prohibited. As far as Wikipedia goes, anyone can edit so long as they provide appropriate sources; and those whom have a particular relationship with a certain subject are generally more apt to know where to find interesting information. One of the reasons I joined Wikipedia so long ago was just to expand info on some of my family members -- I have lots of photos and know where to get lots of sourceable information (as in this article. On Wikimedia, I'd say it's even more important to have partnerships like these exactly because of what David Shankbone stated: these agencies have ready access to imagery and events which most of us may not have access to. If they wish to make it free for use, then by all means we're not going to stop them. Yes, there are few that do something for nothing (which is what I think you meant to say); and this case you are still correct. However, the PR firm is getting something out of it: publicity. Their images become the top-quality images available, make their way onto Wikis in a plethora of different languages, and all-the-while the PR firm's name is but a click away. Now that's publicity. It serves them; it serves us. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 02:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

April 4

Quick advice needed for Commons:Wikipedia Takes Manhattan

Is there some template that can automagically tell me whether or not a category is empty?--Pharos 03:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

New tag {{PD-scan}} for certain scans of PD originals

The discussion at Commons:Deletion requests/Images from Darwin Online has shown the need for us us to distinguish between:

  • 1. mere mechanical scans of PD originals - normally labelled {{PD-Old}},
  • 2. scans of PD originals which have been enhanced in some way but not enough to create a new copyright, and
  • 3. scans of PD originals which have been so extensively edited as to generate a new copyright work (allowed on Commons only under licence)

At present images falling under 2. often get labelled {{PD-Old}}, but that can create uncertainty and argument since the enhancements are of course not old, but new. I have created a new tag {{PD-scan}} to deal with this, its purpose being to assert that the image can have no independent copyright as it is simply a mechanical reproduction of an old, public domain image, or – from the available evidence – that it is so similar to such a reproduction that no copyright protection can be expected to arise. This allows the tag to be used in the common situation when the image has been copied from the internet and we don't know whether it is of type 1 or 2. I have also created a proposed set of guidlines at Commons:When to use the PD-scan tag. Perhaps feedback could be directed to the talk page there?--MichaelMaggs 12:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Sandbox for uploads: not the dirtbox?

I was looking for a way to upload images for test purposes; mainly to see how SVGs will render (they are so unpredictable!) I found the Dirtbox but I could not find a way to upload files to it distinct from the regular upload procedure. I do not want to pollute the server with ten copies of a file. --Adoniscik(t, c) 16:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

May be there should be a way to delete your own older versions of reuploaded files. That would remove the need for dirtbox.--Jarekt 17:34, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Pictures of people

Does anyone know what the rules are concerning posting picture of people on this website. I have pictures about urban exploration that may contain pictures of urban explores, if they saw them here they probably would not appreciate it. What are the rulesAdam.J.W.C. 17:56, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Insects living in wood

Has anyone found any yellow and black bugs that have burrowed into the wood they've cut? And if so, does anyone know what they are? They look slightly like a honey bee but aren't.

I am not quite sure why this is being asked here. But not all bees are social insects. There are species of solitary bees that lay there eggs in holes they dig. Like social bees they fertilize flowering plants. Geo Swan 03:08, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

March 23

Anti-nude vandalism

Some IP is currently lauching a mass DR of nude pictures. His behaviour is NOT construtive at all and he seems to be totally unaware of rules on Commons (for instance he re-launches closed DR). --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 17:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I have given a warning to the user and links to Commons:Nudity and our general disclaimer. I'm at work now and would prefer not to open those requests, but I can take care of them later if noone does so before. Patrícia msg 17:32, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Actually I'm also wondering if Avron isn't also a vandal. I mean, look at his "arguments" here, it's quite pathetic to me! --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 17:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I have closed all but one of the leftover nominations. What a mess... -- Cat ちぃ？ 23:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Anons and Deletion Requests

Think we could set things up so that you need to register in order to post to the Deletions Request page? These IP's that don't even know how things like COM:SCOPE work and our policies are starting to make me a bit mad. That IP mentioned in a thread above me kinda tipped the scale a bit. ViperSnake151 19:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

This is no good idea in my eyes. If a deletion request shows that the initiator has no experience with commons policies or makes it only "just for fun", the deletion request can be speedy closed. --GeorgHH • talk   20:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I have have seen enough valid deletion requests from IPs to say it makes sense to let everyone nominate images for deletion. I concur with GeorgHH, obviously frivolous deletion requests can be speedily closed. --rimshottalk 23:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Anybody should be able to nominate images. We should however discourage mass nomination like the recent case. -- Cat ちぃ？ 00:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
I always thought users should only get that "nominate for deletion" button when they register. It makes it too easy right now. IPs should be allowed to nominate images, but only if they are serious, which taking the time to nominate things manually helps make sure they are. Rocket000 04:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
It is currently given to anyone using Monobook.js. See here to kill two birds with one stone. I'm suggesting that we fix a bug and make that button opt-in (and only for registered users) all at once. There's nothing to stop anons or folks who don't opt-in from nominating stuff for deletion, but they wouldn't have the script which lets them do so at light speed. – Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 15:25, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

April 5

Uploaded images do not have "pages" on Commons

With one or two exceptions, the image files that I have uploaded on Commons or moved from en.wikipedia do not have associated "image pages," although it appears to me that these are supposed to be automatically generated.

For example, Image:CandidateForCongress1938.jpg is flagged "There are no pages that link to this file," but most image uploads seem to generate a page of the same name at the time of the upload (for example, Image:Briceville-full-tn1.jpg states "The following pages link to this file: * Image:Briceville-full-tn1.jpg").

Why do some files lack "pages"? --Orlady 04:25, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Is it not that some licensing templates incorporate a self-referential link to "this file" whereas the PD-USGov used for Image:CandidateForCongress1938.jpg does not? Man vyi 04:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Aha! That explains it... Thanks. --Orlady 14:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Sock puppet? Vandalism?

A recent new user, Amanda the slayer (talk • contribs), has strangely been focused on one picture and its DR: Image:CurvedPenis.jpg. I suspect him to be a sock puppet of Minicirc (talk • contribs), the uploader-nominator of the picture. Anyway, even if he isn't, his behaviour is not compatible with Commons rules since he's accusing me of vandalizing this picture as I exactly did the contrary i.e. reverting uncorrect changes. The first time it was uploaded, the picture licence was GFDL. Then, for some unknown and strange reason, the uploader launched a DR 2 days later and eventually erased the description and the licence information! Amanda the slayer eventually added a no licence tag (actually I think it's quite strange to see a new user knowing that kind of tag!). I restored the original licence and Amanda the slayer reverted it twice, even accusing me of vandalism! Could someone do something? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 16:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - blocked User:Mileshigh000, User:Donna miles & User:Amanda the slayer as puppet accounts of user:Minicirc (leaving that one unblocked for now. Feel free to strike out the comments of the others there (I'd do it but I am literally going offline when I've done this). Any more issues feel free to let us know - thanks --Herby talk thyme 17:03, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

April 7

Do we have a notability threshold?

[3]: Apparently 5 images of the same person by the same photographer. Nice pictures, and she's cute & all, but no indication of why this person would be notable. I suspect some sort of vanity thing going on. - Jmabel | talk 05:03, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I get zero search results for your provided link. Disregarding that, Commons:Project scope#Wikimedia Commons is a common central media repository of all Wikimedia projects spells out pretty plainly that a media file needs to have some potential use on a *pedia article. Personally, I detest "notability" and see no reason why such a thing needs to be brought here. The scope as-is keeps things simple: if you can't name an article a file may be used on then it doesn't belong here. Cburnett 07:32, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
The pictures are currently appropriately categorised and seem to be therefore findable for purposes of potential use in relevant piercing and fashion articles and galleries. How notable does a piercing, scarf or coat have to be? Man vyi 09:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, a person doesn't need to be notable in order to illustrate something... Someone thought they would be useful enough to upload them and there's a chance someone else may find them useful. That's good. What benefit would deleting them bring? Rocket000 10:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Not to nit-pick, but Commons is for a lot more than just the encyclopedia. EVula // talk // ☯ // 04:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

So, for example, any redhead in Seattle could upload their own picture and categorize it under Category:Red hair and Category:Seattle, Washington (the latter being where I ran across one of these, which is what had me asking)? - Jmabel | talk 20:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I assume that the fountain feature in the background of Image:Cal Anderson Park, Seattle America.jpg is actually in Seattle (although not a particularly helpful illustration of Seattle)? If that is the case, the picture seems appropriately categorised. Man vyi 06:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I added one of them to labret. It seems like we should use these instead of deleting them. Finding images is easy, finding free images is hard. Lets use the ones we have, unless there's some Notability for free images that I am unaware of. - 76.105.140.37 04:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice. Nevertheless, we have to take care of personality rights, that‘s some sort of „notability“. Regards, Code·is·poetry 07:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Something which is out of copyright, but which was itself a copyright violation?

The status of Image:Wimpy TJB.jpg is something of an enigma to me. It's a scan of the cover of a ca. 1940 illicit pornographic mini comic book. The comic book is almost certainly out of copyright, since it's extremely unlikely that the formal notification and renewal procedures required under U.S. law at the time were carried out. However, when the comic was first published, it actually would have been in violation of the legal copyrights of the Popeye cartoon characters... AnonMoos 14:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

A more recent example is Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Wall of shame.jpg, where some elements in the photo are copyright. Also many of our Category:Poster displays contain a element that is copyright. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

rename problem

White Cat (talk • contribs) has been renaming some images which I noticed here, which is Image:WMBarnstar.png renamed to Image:Working Man's Barnstar.png. The history of the original image has not been recorded on the renamed file. The original is released as PD, so this example only constitutes a breakdown on attribution expectations rather than a violation of copyright terms. Still, I think the file history should be recorded, and there may be other cases where the original image is not PD. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Decision time for Valued Image logo

LadyofHats has been kind enough to invest quite some time in drafting proposed logos for the Valued Images project on Commons. Based on the feedback from previous drafts, she has now proposed a final set of sketches from which the Valued Image logo shall be selected. Do voice your opinion about the logo here as well as several other open issues, where user responses on the project/volunteers are requested. -- Slaunger 08:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I want "checkuser" back!!!

why was it deleted, it was next to the history button of files! :- ( 84.153.183.33 12:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

lol, no it wasn't! – Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 14:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Wait, maybe you mean CheckUsage? The tab should still be there for anons... Only registered users can opt out at this point. I'll take a look at the script & see if anything changed. – Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 14:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Possible rogue user

The IP user 89.1.226.78 is most likely a user who has been banned on the English wikipedia. Mostly likely the entomologist by the name of Andy Lehrer whose has created the family Bengaliidae which is apparently not accepted by the majority of entomologists. He has been renaming image captions and adding redirects to a Romanian article on the family. See and the history for the past of this image. Now he seems to be editing image captions and I do not know what the normal mode of actio here is. Shyamal 14:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - appears largely unconstructive (even incompetent :)). Reverted & warned - cheers --Herby talk thyme 14:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Resolving disputes

Hi. I'm mostly active on the English Wikipedia and only visit commons from time to time. I know nothing about local policies and customs. I had a small argument with another editor at Talk:Vagina-the other editor is a conservative person who is strongly against such images, while I'm extremely liberal. Problem is-both of us have been incivil, and I don't think I can just talk it out with him myself. I am looking for some kind of a dispute resolution process, can anyone help? Puchiko 14:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

What do you think about my idea (the idea after this one?) Fale 15:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
It was not a dispute, it was an anonymous user raging against the system. Not a lot you can do there, just give it time to cool down. --Foroa 13:04, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Puchiko, having read the discussion, I think you have been quite civil in your reply. I suggest you leave things as they are. Rgeards, MartinD 19:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree that Puchiko has been amazingly civil in the face of out-of-control ranting. Is there any limit to this sort of thing? If someone messes up a page with large amounts of irrational and impolite text, should everyone tolerate it, or could we just delete it? Torve 12:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Did the MonoBook skin change?

On Firefox, the upload file link was removed from the toolbox on the left nav bar. I tried the other skins but don't like the layouts of the few that have the upload link on the left (for the rest it has to be access via Special pages), although Classic is workable. However on IE it looks the same. Or is it just me. BrokenSphere 20:30, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Caching problem; since resolved. – Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 20:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

April 8

More PD photos on Flickr

Sydney's Powerhouse Museum has released 200 photos of Sydney and New South Wales from the turn of the 20th Century. Arria Belli | parlami 00:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Can't Find Image File

I uploaded an image file Image:Balancer_with_wine_3.JPG apparently successfully. I can find it with the "My Contributions" link but I cannot find it with Search and it is not found when I try to edit it into an article. How is that? ClarkH 4/7/2008

For me the image is visible and I can use in galleries/articles. The search function on Commons is not up-to-date, it can take a couple of hours till new images will be found. --GeorgHH • talk   11:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

If two cities have the same name

Is there any rule or guideline on Commons for the naming of cats for different cities etc. with identical names?
Currently the cat for the East Sussex town of Hove (UK) is named simply Category:Hove.
But the cat for the municipality Hove in Belgium is named Category:Hove (Belgium).
And there is even a Hove in South Australia, currently without a cat on Commons.
Shouldn’t they both named in the same manner? -- Túrelio 06:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Usually comma used as delimited in such cases. See Category:San Jose, California as example. --EugeneZelenko 15:08, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
There is no clear rule.
  • The first cat that is created usually wins. The second one with a simular name takes a precision. I suggest to make a disambiguity page (gallery) to document (redirect to the cats) that as it avoids unnecessary fights.
  • I strongly would suggest a comma delimiter as you might have several towns with the same name in the same country, so the name might need two disambiguity parameters, for example "Hove, Antwerpen, Belgium" and "Hove, Henegouwen, Belgium", or as for nl:Limburg, en:Bergen (disambiguation) or the hundreds French city names that exist allover France. This will get worse over time as more and more wikipedia's join commons.
We would avoid a lot of trouble if from the onset, we would integrate all dismbiguity pages from all wikipedia's in the commons. But that is a not a small job. --Foroa 18:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Hide category

Several weeks (or months?) ago, I seem to recall a command becoming available which we could add into a category such that it does not show up at the bottom of tagged articles/images. Might anyone recall what that command is? I can't seem to find it. Thanks! --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 04:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

You add __HIDDENCAT__ to the category page. Rocket000 07:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 12:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Problem accessing Commons

Sometimes I can't get on Commons, although the site isn't down as a whole. I don't have the problem with any other Wikimedia site. Maybe it's a particular server? Is there a workaround, like logging on to a specific URL or a secure server or some such? Tyrenius 07:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Yesterday is was particularly ba