Commons talk:Coats of arms

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to: navigation, search

Geocoding for CoAs?[edit]

I would like to suggest geocoding of CoAs as a good practice. Examples can be found in image:CoA Meckesheim.svg and image:COA_Ketsch.svg. This enables someone to see the CoA in google maps while browsing around. Actually a nice idea I think. For the samples I used the city center or the location of the town-hall if known. What are your oppinions? -- Dr. Schorsch (talk)

I think geocoding should be used for photographs to indicate the location where they were taken, but it should most certainly not be used for coats of arms. Except when you were actually photographing a coa made of stone at a building or something similar. --Rosenzweig δ 18:53, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Logischer und einfacher wäre es, Google dazu zu bewegen, die Wappen in den bereits vorhandenen Wikipedia-Labels mit anzuzeigen. --Slomox (talk) 21:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Missleading[edit]

The current text about derivatives is somewhat misleading. Yes a new interpretation of the blason is not a derivative of an existing interpretation of it. BUT when making the new interpretation it must be made ONLY using the blason, if you use the existing interpretation as inspiration (or intentionally make your version look as similar to the old one as possible) then you are once again creating a derivative work. The current formulation of the text makes it sound as though derivative works are impossible which is not the case. /Lokal_Profil 02:16, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Images from Heraldry of the world[edit]

I copied from the main page : Coat of arms "found on the internet" The main problem with CoA is not to upload private (copyrighted) images "found on the net", but CoA drawn afresh are OK. As soon as the change in the drawing is substantial enough, so that the original picture can't be identified, it is a derivative of the "Per fess argent and vert, a dragon passant gules" PD-definition, not of the CC-Image:Flag of Wales 2.svg representation.

The coats of arms on international civic heraldry (like most other sites) cannot be used on commons, because the drawings are (most of the time) made by a recent artist who owns the copyright on that specific picture. The only "public domain" CoA in such database would be those who are obviously scanned from very old publications - that is almost impossible to identify (but if you find such CoA, go ahead and upload it under a PD-old template). The "disclaimer" information given on http://www.ngw.nl/ is totally surrealistic. The web master clearly does not know what is the copyright status of his pictures (and obviously doesn't care much). The "Use of the images in Wikipedia " clause is meaningless: he can't give to wikipedia a right he doesn't own in the first place, and if he means that he has no objection to our copying from his site, well anybody can copy small amounts of information from a database anyway, forbidding it would be illegal...

As owner of the Heraldry of the world site (www.ngw.nl) I was surprised to see these texts. I agree on most parts, but on the other hand I see nothing is done about it...

  • on my site there are two types of images; the ones I made myself, which are only Dutch and to which you can add the template '
w:en:Creative Commons
attribution
This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported license.
You are free:
  • to share – to copy, distribute and transmit the work
  • to remix – to adapt the work
Under the following conditions:
  • attribution – You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).

You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author (see disclaimer on http://www.ngw.nl) or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work). For any reuse or distribution, you must make clear to others the license terms of this work. The best way to do this is with a link to the original web page on http://www.ngw.nl.'.

  • I have scanned thousands of images, and I do care about copyrights in a sense... I have indeed not asked permission from authors/publishers, but I always mention the book(s) I have scanned them from. On the other hand, I have only had twice a municipality that asked me to remove the image, and I have had hundreds of municipalities and also authors, that asked me to put the arms on line. I NEVER copy texts directly (I have to trsnalste them anyway in most cases)
  • The ngw2 template and the disclaimer are more meant as a warning, made after quite some discussion, on letting people know that if they want to use the images on wikipedia, they should take care of the copyright status. I just don;t want to be made responsible for (wrong) use of the images.
  • the last but maybe most important part is that it is stated that the images from my site may not be used on commons. (Only the ones to which I own copyright and those I have released) But there are over 7000 images from my site on commons. So why does nobody start to mass delete them ? Only today a number of French images are listed for deletion (see [[1]]... Maybe someone can write a bot ?

Knorrepoes (talk) 17:32, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I've rewritten that section of the page. /Lokal_Profil 22:24, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, a coat of arms blazoning and its achievement protected by law[edit]

In all British commonwealth countries coat of arms blazonings and achievements may be protected by law : from usurpation regarding COAs of families and individuals, or from forgery regarding seal and coats of arms of state bodies and local government bodies. In the USA, only coats of arms of state bodies and army bodies have protection, whereas there isn't any for COAs of families or individuals. In France and Germany, COAs may be protected by law only as emblem of a family name (not of an individual) on the condition that the family has evidence it has been bearing the COA before the usurpator (however, in France no public body registers COA). Regarding COAs of local government bodies, in France they are used only by municipalities (with 2 or 3 exceptions for French counties [départements] and regions). In mainland Europe, COAs of local government bodies may also serve as a people's emblem or emblem of a territories (usually in a slightly varriant achievement, for instance without the crest). In France, today COAs only serve as people's emblem or emblems of territories and rarely as an emblem of a legal entity (although at municipal level COAs also serve as emblem of the city council and the municipality. France is the only country in the world that uses heraldic shields as simple civil flags are used in other western countries.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.77.38.83 (talk • contribs)

However these are Non-copyright restrictions and are covered by tagging the image with {{Insignia}}. SV1XV (talk) 10:02, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

No derivative works?[edit]

In two sections of the page there are passages indicating that there is no such thing as a derivative work and thus no problem plagiarizing. I suppose this is incorrect or at least misleading.

This also means that a Coat of Arms inspired from another (found on the net), with the same composition, but with a different interpretation, is not a "derivative work": When a new CoA picture is made, it is a "derivative" of the (PD) description, not of the website's (copyrighted) image, hence the copyright regime is simply that of a self-made picture.

The point is that you may use the blazon to create a similar image, but if you are "inspired" by an existing image there is an obvious risk of making a copyright violation. I think the passages are poorly written and confusing and should perhaps give more advice on how to properly drew new representations (one could e.g. use out-of-copyright details and the composition of unrelated Coats of arms as inspiration).

--LPfi (talk) 06:19, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

PD-old?[edit]

Should it not be correct {{PD-art-100}} / {{PD-art-70}}?!? -- ΠЄΡΉΛΙΟ 17:52, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

File:Meda-Stemma.jpg[edit]

Can someone provide replacement for File:Meda-Stemma.jpg. The file does not have license and as far as I can tell OTRS ticket does not specify it either. The file will likely have to go. --Jarekt (talk) 14:42, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

frei erfundene Wappen?[edit]

Sind frei erfundene Wappen bzw. frei nachempfundene Wappen etwas für WP/WM? Ich stolperte kürzlich wegen dieser Änderung auf die Liste Special:Contributions/Hodzilla, die sich hier im Original wiederfinden ... --Mueck (talk) 12:18, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Halte ich persönlich für gefährlich und ansonsten auch "Out of Scope". However, these are classified here (Allerdings werden diese hier eingeordnet): Category: Special or fictional coats of arms -- Perhelion (talk) 14:44, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

PD/Copyright[edit]

Sections 2,3,4, and 5 within this discussion (half of present topics) touch on the same common theme regarding copyright/PD issues. The language within this policy with regards to copyright and PD, especially pertaining to blazons, is ambiguous and unsourced. It is difficult to add clarity and to verify accuracy and veracity without the sources behind the content. The laws governing CoA are specific to their country of origin. As concensus based policies such as this do not trump official policy or domestic and international law, care must be taken to ensure that this is is inline with Official Commons Policy and the pertinent domestic and international law. Explicit sources are required to properly inform policy, especially for such a complicated topic. trackratte (talk) 17:13, 4 April 2014 (UTC)