File:Flag of Croatia for discussion.svg

Summary[edit]

DescriptionFlag of Croatia for discussion.svg	Flag of Croatia. Temporary upload as a workspace for the discussion at Image talk:Flag of Croatia.svg
Date	11 December 2007, 08:14 (UTC)
Source	Created by uploader, based on Image:Flag of Croatia.svg.
Author	See "File history" below.
Permission (Reusing this file)	This image shows a flag, a coat of arms, a seal or some other official insignia. The use of such symbols is restricted in many countries. These restrictions are independent of the copyright status. Public domainPublic domainfalsefalse I, the copyright holder of this work, release this work into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In some countries this may not be legally possible; if so: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

Purpose[edit]

This file is intended to serve as a workspace for the dispute at Image talk:Flag of Croatia.svg. Please feel free to upload new versions here, but if you do so, please also add a new entry in the section below, explaining exactly how and why you chose the particular colors. But please stick to the point and keep your explanations short.

Blue[edit]

Please do not discuss each other's rationales here. If you upload a new version, just add your own rationale. All discussion should take place at Image talk:Flag of Croatia.svg.

• Original upload (Lupo 08:14, 11 December 2007 (UTC)): the light blue used in the 1st, 3rd, and 5th shield of the crown is 0098ca. This value corresponds roughly to the light blue used here (averaged out); the dark blue used for the 2nd and 4th shield is 0202b2, from the same source, again averaged out. These choices also (in my opinion) agree roughly with this sketch (that does look a bit washed out, though). The dark blue of the bottom stripe of the flag is again 0202b2. There doesn't seem to be a formal definition for the kind of blue to use for that bottom stripe, but unless there's compelling evidence that a third kind of blue should be used, I think we should use only two shades of blue. Photos from real flags such as [1], [2], [3], [4] (EU web site, 7th image should be a Croatian flag, hi-res version for non-commercial purposes available only after registration), [5] (third image form the top), or also the two photos in our own Category:Flags of Croatia, show that the precise shades of blue vary, but in all images the bottom stripe is close to the dark blue used in the crown, and in all images, the light blue in the crown is much lighter than the blue of the bottom stripe. (Of course, photos of real flags should be taken with a grain of salt, as the flags may be weathered, and sometimes the lighting conditions are difficult.) Lupo 08:14, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Near to the ordinary blue #0000ff[edit]

Light blue is used for the 1st, 3rd & 5th section of the Crown. According to many sources and Lupo's comment, that it should be lighter, is set as #457DE2. The “before colour” (done by me) was very close to royal blue, and this one is similar too. But it’s however lightened. Nevertheless it is still called blue in the Law. Whatever colour you use in those sections of the Crown you should use for the 3rd band of the Flag as well. Light blue in 1st, 3rd & 5th section of the Crown is not sacred. At lots of places it is blue like the colour of the bottom band of the Flag. So weather you use light blue or not, this is the blue that should be used for the bottom band of the Flag. Because we are here to make a compromise, and original sources use light blue, and Minestrone, Suradnik13 and R-41 agree that it should be light blue and not turquoise nor some lightened blue-green. I have also left light blue / blue question at peace. Light blue at 1st, 3rd & 5th section (shield) of the Crown has a historical meaning because in those sections are the CoA’s of kingdoms and in 2nd and 4th are the CoA’s of below kingdoms but rather significant parts of Croatia. It is well in our right to use and justify the use of royal blue as the colour of 1st, 3rd & 5th section of the Crown that lay on top of the main shield.

Blue for the 3rd band of the Flag (from the top) is set most near to the ordinary blue (#0000FF) and in order to compromise is set at RGB 0,0,247 as used in that Presidential decree (in hex #0000F7 and in Inkscape 0000f7ff – which ads some depth). The beauty of this is that in case of using that decree there is no need to average anything.

Navy blue is used as suggested from the w:List of colors. With #000080 (in Inkscape 000080ff). Navy blue should be used because it is constantly used for the 2nd and 4th section of the Crown. Nobody should object to its use (at its proper place in the CoA) because it must be much darker than the 3rd band of the Flag. It use is present at the first drawing of the CoA, and commons use very similar design to that of this first drawing. Pushing for the usage of simple dark blue here isn’t good for the making of a compromise, which will be elaborated below.

For the marten I have not used #964B00 (Brown) but rather an ordinary dark brown #654321. It is also similar to that of the presidential decree. The border of the marten is set in darker dark brown #3E2915 but not in black, and the border of the white belly of the marten is #4B341D.

Other contributions are new moon in the 1st section is thinner. And I have noticed that other users think that the Crown should go even higher into the red band of the Flag. It cannot go any more than it is compromise set here. Namely I have set the red line (which borders the chequered shield) into the red band of the Flag thus leaving only those white surroundings which cannot go into the red band of the Flag.

The Leopard heads are modified as well as the border of the goat's body. This has been done because some users think that those characters are smaller than should be, as well with the first drawing as a source. Change is from #544B20 to #D4AA00. The eye of the goat is #554400 and the eyes of the leopards are #E3C240. Namely when the manes of the leopards were #544B20 the eyes were lighter than it but darker than main yellow colour. This pattern is retained. The before had too much green-blue.

In this way we are not trapped between selecting weather the blue on the Flag should be of either one of the two blue colours of the CoA. The most middle and compromise blue of the 3rd band of the Flag (looking from the top). I showed how not to stick to the Law but still obey its norms. In case of using dark blue instead of navy blue that dark blue (or any other more dark blue like the averaged #0202B2) would seem to close to the 3rd band of the Flag and we would be in the zone of disrespect of the Law.

I am not sad because of the compromises I had to make. In case I kept silent, as others, there would still be that horrid version of the Flag which uses even darker blue than those of the navy blue. Yes that is correct, the before version used 011171fe (#011171). Hopefully that would now become history.

Sources are:

1. Flags are somewhat expensive, most of the younger generations that had schooling after the year 1992. (Which went to school for at least one year after that year) received/bought books from the publisher Školska knjiga, Zagreb. This is the biggest publisher of school books in Croatia. Those books and other schooling material (from 1992.) had in itself printings of the Flag. These school books are printed in great numbers that are greater than those of the any domestic flag manufacturer (probably even all domestic flag manufacturers together). They use 1/3/5 Crown section and bottom band of the Flag sameness.
2. from about-croatia [6] which uses three colours of blue (3B), with the significant difference between 2/4 section of the Crown and bottom band of the Flag.
3. from bigfoto [7] interesting appearance of the two variety of the bottom band
4. Usage of 3B at fotw [8] and its subsidiary crwflags [9] even if they use darker variant – they are only people like us – and can make mistakes. Like Zeljko Heimer and his view of the CoA [10]. Interesingly enough they (both of them Carlos Esparza & Zeljko Heimer) do not obey the FOTW colour guide [11] which is to be used when there are no definitive source.
5. From stickergiant [12], interestingly enough this kind of a CoA I’ve seen at the cover page of the Informatics 1 schoolbook of Damir Muraja, and in number other places that use normal blue in 1/3/5 and in bottom band of the Flag.
6. from one of the producers that produce both 3B and other variants – which depend on the customers wishes like [13]
7. False Flag that CIA used till around 2007-07-15 [14] which tell you all about the respect of the Flag. I have seen our current president, this year, in front of this flag when he visited Croatia’s neighbouring country – Montenegro.
8. interesting bunch of different variants and what is even more interesting none of them use even a bit of green in the 1/3/5 [15]
9. from fotosearch [16]
10. from worldofstock a photo [17]
11. from the President website [18]

Rainman 18:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

It is possible that better color coordination is necessary when blue band/stripe equals #0000F7 or #0000FF. So in that case I would rather used #E11818 for red band/stripe (as well for all the other red places) instead of #FF0000 which is too bright of a red color. -- Rainman 02:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Vexilla Mundi blue[edit]

This version uses Mello Luchtenbergs blue for the third band/stripe of the Flag, that is #0051BA which had been used by a commons user R-41 for a version from August 5, 2007, 17:10 UTC. To this version Lupo pointed out at the begining of his discussion.

This is probably a better compromise than plain (and screaming) #0000ff (#0000f7) version.

Even Zeljko Heimer suggested, in part, Mello Luchtenberg colour schematic for which Mello calculated even the PANTONE ® 293 / RGB (0,81,186).

But Minestrone should now consider to show better sources than talking about fans, media houses and some flags that he is seeing every day.

Other blue colours are #3B75DA for the lighter and #393E91 for the darker blue (Minestrone approved for the use on the CoA).

Rainman 18:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

When you compare the Vexilla Mundi blue (#0051BA) to that of mine (#2A4ECD) you shall see that it is most simmilar. I still think that, in light of the UN flag, mine colour is better. -- Rainman 02:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Solution most close to #0000FF[edit]

The #0000FF is too dazzling (like #00FF00) so this new compromise is based on it and sourced to the Presidential decision and the Category:Military of Croatia.

Blue: #1111FF (third band from the top)

Blue: #2A4ECD (1st, 3rd & 5th section of the Crown)

Blue: #000080 (2nd & 4th section of the Crown - Navy blue as per the letter of the Law)

Rainman 23:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Uses the correct border of the Coat of arms[edit]

In a great majority of cases, the CoA, as represented on the Flag, is bordered by a single (one) red line AND not with double (two) lines (white line + red line) border. See the talk page.

Rainman 23:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting source here. -- Rainman 00:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Another interesting source there. -- Rainman 00:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)