File talk:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg

Missing DOCTYPE

This image has no DOCTYPE, and therefore Wikimedia says "Warning: This file may contain malicious code, by executing it your system may be compromised." However, I am unable to fix this, since the system is not accepting other uploads, only reverts. When possible, add a

<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 20010904//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-SVG-20010904/DTD/svg10.dtd">

on the second line. --Orzetto 01:02, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikimedia says "Warning: This file may contain malicious code, by executing it your system may be compromised."

I don't see this on the file page - are you talking about what it says when you try to upload your own file here?

<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 20010904//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-SVG-20010904/DTD/svg10.dtd">

Not sure I follow you, but I s'pose it's possible Commons doesn't like that odd doctype. See http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg or http://w3.org/TR/SVG11 for more normal doctype declarations you can use (which do work here). There are other things that will keep Commons from allowing your upload, though, like <title>. ¦ Reisio 17:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Rsvg bugs

MediaWiki uses librsvg to render SVG files. Rsvg has the following known bug: if two polygons overlap, the pixels on the border aren't colored right. Basically, what rsvg does is the following: as it reads through the SVG file, it rasterizes each shape in order, applying it to the PNG image that is being generated. So when a later shape overlaps an earlier one, it doesn't know the geometry of how they overlap exactly.

The version of this flag that I uploaded on January 17 has the white drawn first, then the blue and red. If you try to use that file as the corner of a blue ensign such as Image:Flag of Australia.svg, there will be white lines at the edges of the jack.

Just now, I uploaded a version of the flag that makes the same image, but has the blue in the "background", with white and red drawn later. This new version of the flag can be used as the corner of a blue ensign, without noticably triggering the bug in rsvg. (Perhaps eventually I'll upload a similar version for use on red ensigns.) User:dbenbenn 02:10, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Recent colour change of 5 Feb 2006

CMYK generally is to be avoided since it works only in print media (which uses CMYK inks). WP is a screen format (using RGB lights), and I have reverted to the last version by Dbenbenn. I myself learnt this the hard way... Greentubing (en:WP talk) 04:50, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Could you please explain better what was wrong with my version? I don't want to start a revert war, but I did not use CYMK values, so I don't understand your revert.--Squerciele 14:01, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't want a revert war either, and believe me I am assuming good faith. I would like to know what exactly you input to the data file (if its not CMYK values). If you did input authoritative RGB values, please accept my apologies in advance, and disregard the rest of this post.

My main isue is that Pantone can only be approximated on screen formats, and its application is never consistent across all formats, since not everyone can afford to buy the official Pantone->RGB manual.

For a pantone colour, inputting its official RGB values (as defined in their manual) will yield an equivalent set of CMYK approximations, and inputting official CMYK values will yield a set of RGB approximations, and the two approximations are not congruent. Try this for yourself, if you have access to a Pantone swatch book. This is why just extracting the RGBs from About.com is not good (not enough information there).

As for FOTW, there again they are defined to print colours, and the image of the flag there has generalised colours (not exact)—browser-safe approximates.

Unless someone can get us an RGB definition of Pantone xxx, I don't think they should be used. I myself have been in hot water over this so I feel I do have something to say. Simply putting in Pantone XXX in to Photoshop etc. and then lifting RGB values is only just an approximation.

Of course, this being a Wiki, feel free to revert my change, I don't own Wikimedia. Having made my point I will not revert back a second or third time. Its just that someone else will come along and change it. Also if I haven't addressed an issue to your satisfaction, drop me a line on my talk page and I can explain some more.

Respectfully, Greentubing (en:WP talk) 19:09, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Here's everything I've been able to find about the colors:

Squerciele's version uses (red, white, blue) = (#cc3f3c, #f3f2ef, #1a3872). The version that ZScout originally uploaded in September uses (#ce1126, #ffffff, #002b7f). w:Union Jack recommends (#c61018, #ffffff, #002173), citing flaginstitute.org. Flags of the World says the colors are Pantone 186 for red and Pantone 280 for blue, which according to [1] or [2] comes to the current ZScout version.

I agree with Greentubing that "Pantone can only be approximated on screen formats". But assuming that Flags of the World is correct, and that the colors are actually defined in terms of Pantone, we have to just try to pick the best approximation possible. From what I've seen so far, that means (#ce1126, #ffffff, #002b7f). Squerciele, do you have any information that disagrees with those three colors? User:dbenbenn 19:39, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

My choiches were (as I stated in my edit) from here, and from the "optical white" from Image talk:Flag of Italy.svg#Green-grey-red. However, if we settle for a different color palette, it is fine for me: I just wished to improve the file, and did not understand the explanation for the edit. (Furthermore, just to be clear, I am Panairjdde). --Squerciele 00:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

So we all agree the colors are Pantone 186 and Pantone 280, which is what this file currently uses, and has always used. Obviously the Italian flag has nothing to do with the white in this flag. User:dbenbenn 21:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I reported (here) the colors for Pantone codes 186 and 280. Why are they wrong? As regerds white, if no Pantone code is specified, why not any "optical" white? Thanks for the attention.--151.24.210.173 00:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

So? Is the Pantone approximation allowable? May I revert the image to Pantone colors?--217.26.87.7 14:56, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Dear anonymous editor: please log in. Anyway, the page you cite at about.com says nothing about how to convert Pantone colors to RGB codes. Furthermore, in the absence of any other information, we have to assume the white in the flag is supposed to be "as bright as possible". In this case, that means SVG's "white" keyword. User:dbenbenn 02:23, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

The site provides the palettes, so the actual RGB code. As regards white, is the "as bright as possible" a Wikimedia policy, or your personal opinion?--FlagUploader 11:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

There is no reason to think the colors in the images at [3] are especially accurate. They might very well be "web safe" colors, for example. I honestly don't know what the best RGB codes are for Pantone 186 and 280, but the burden of proof is on you to justify changing this image.

Furthermore, you are obviously simply making a w:WP:POINT by copying the white from the flag of Italy here. I will block you if you continue. (Constructive comments are welcome, of course.) User:dbenbenn 03:58, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

If you revert my edits, the burden of the proof is on you, am I wrong? My point is that those RGB colors look accurate to me, and, without an official Pantone->RGB conversion, this is the best I can do. What I am trying to say is that if you have any point against my edits, why are you reverting them?

As regards "making a point", I am just applying rules you made. You seem to use different policies for files of the same type (e.g., the "as bright as possible" rule), and it is difficult for me to contribute to Wikimedia, since I can't understand why what is wrong here is right somewhere else.

However, someone gave you the right block users on your personal judgment, so why are you warning me? I am contributing at my best, given the tought environment set by your "policies". You are free to block any behaviour you feel uncorrect, as well as I am free to modify the Wikimedia files according to your rules (once I understand them, they are a dancing target).--FlagUploader 22:34, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Colours

Why don't we use the sRGB colours listed here: Commons:Pantone color chart/British flag colours, in this case that would be:

white

#CF142B

#00247D

ZScout's colors:

white

#CE1126

#002B7F

Squerciele's colors:

#F3F2EF

#CC3F3C

#1A3872

I vote for the first version, which seems most accurate (though CorelDraw might do bad conversions, I don't know), but I'll let others comment.

--Jacobolus 22:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

That seems fine. (Note that Squerciele's colors were never proposed in good faith; Squerciele was simply trying to make a point about the flag of Italy.)

Nice job with the rotated rectangles, by the way. Your idea makes the SVG code a lot simpler. The only drawback I see is that you lose a tiny bit of accuracy: the red diagonal line doesn't quite meet the lower right corner of the flag, because the rotation angle isn't exact. Of course, that's only a theoretical flaw; it isn't something you could actually see. Also, although you included 44 decimals of accuracy on the angles, they're only correct to 13 decimals (according to bc). I'll go fix that ... User:dbenbenn 17:56, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Darn, sorry about the inaccuracy. That's silly. I should have double-checked. Anyway, I like the strokes. That's even better than rotated rectangles. The newest version looks good :) --Jacobolus 05:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Cool—you were wrong, but impressively accurate in error :-) Nickshanks 13:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Version by Pumbaa80

Just a few words why I used a clipPath:

• Adobe's SVG viewer plugin permits zooming and dragging around in the image. Without clipPath, that results in something like this:
• SVG images can be used inside other images (like this one), and that makes clipping necessary
• Even if you draw the white lines exactly to the border, some renderers have problems in drawing this correctly, leaving a blue line of 1 pixel width. Drawing a "too large" cross and cropping it by clipping solves this problem. --Pumbaa 10:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, I didn't include a DOCTYPE, due to this article. --Pumbaa 10:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Feel free to revert if you like. When I opened your flag in Inkscape the clip path was annoying, because I couldn't easily see how the flag was made. Also, I don't think that including in another flag is much of an issue, since the other flag can just use its own clip path. User:dbenbenn 03:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

You can easily remove the clip path by selecting the flag and pressing Ctrl-Shift-G in Inkscape. You're right about the usage of clip paths in other documents, but I think it's much more convenient like this:

<?xml version="1.0" standalone="no"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg>
<svg version="1.1" baseProfile="full" xmlns:ev="http://www.w3.org/2001/xml-events"
   xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
   preserveAspectRatio="xMidYMid meet" zoomAndPan="magnify"
   viewBox="0 0 2 1"
   width="1000"
   height="500">

<rect width="100%" height="100%" fill="#00247d"/>
<image xlink:href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg"
   width="50%" height="50%"/>  
</svg>

That's all you need to draw this, and in a similar way, you can draw many of these these without much ado. --Pumbaa 12:37, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Right, except that linking to other images like that doesn't work here on the Commons, and probably never will. It would be really nice for the various British ensigns. User:dbenbenn 17:22, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Another non-conformance of the software - I hate it! ;-) But I won't give up hope! --Pumbaa 05:37, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

That's an interesting point about renderers having problems. I know that rsvg (which is what the Commons uses) has problems with antialiasing. As far as I know, there's nothing you can do to get rsvg to render this flag perfectly. But it's possible that your version is more accurately rendered by rsvg. User:dbenbenn 03:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Note also that while Mozilla's SVG renderer handles the image fine without the clip path, a bug in Webkit's (still beta) svg renderer causes elements to bleed over the edges of the image (in this case the stroked lines continue beyond the rectangle.

And while it doesn't really matter for our purposes, Illustrator totally messes up the most recent versions. --Jacobolus 11:19, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

That's very annoying. It seems there's not a single software application that can really handle all SVG files correctly, even if they comply with the standards. --Pumbaa 12:37, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Circle for Field

I dislike the current revision's use of a circle for the field. Circles are much harder to render than rectangles, and so I am wondering why this has been used. Can someone explain? Nickshanks 14:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

See the third bullet of Pumbaa's first comment under #Version by Pumbaa80.

Nickshanks, the version you uploaded on May 10 was broken. There was a blue line at the top border. (That might be a bug in rsvg, but it's still a problem.) So I reverted to Pumbaa's version. User:dbenbenn 04:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I admit I didn't think about rendering complexity. I used a circle because this results in the shortest code. Basically, any filled shape can be used as long as it's larger than the clipping area --Pumbaa 08:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Revisions to SVG code

I know the edit summary "Valid SVG" is a bit mystic, so here is exactly what I did:

• Line 2: Fill out the DOCTYPE
• Line 6: Remove spaces in id="..."
• Line 22: Change comment style

Then I put it through http://validator.w3.org/, where it passed SVG 1.1. ButterStick 09:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

"Official" Pantone RGB colours available now.

The current CorelDraw colours we have at the moment are

white

#CF142B

#00247D

whereas the Pantone website, at http://www.pantone.com/pages/pantone/colorfinder.aspx, gives

white

#C60C30

#002776

I have taken the liberty of updating the flag colour templates, however I'd like to seek input from the rest of the Commons users about these new colours before doing anthing to the SVGs.

Issue concerning yet another RGB spec: I realise that this interpretation is just another set with its own peculiarities of lighting and pigment-to-light conversion. However, I feel that of all the conversions, this is the best we have, as Pantone have already taken care of the Internet/Indoor computer-end-user issue by putting the colours on their website.

ButterStick 09:56, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Category (done)

Hello, would please add somebody Category:Location not applicable ? :) with best regards, --Stefan-Xp (talk) 16:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

THX to Flominator!!! ;-) --Stefan-Xp (talk) 16:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

CascoBay.JPG

Hello, I see there seems to be a problem with the Flickr photo I uploaded of CascoBay.JPG. As I understand it, that category of image is acceptable. Here is the link to the file on Flickr.[4] The image carries the tags: Some rights reserved Anyone can see this photo. Could you kindly explain to me why this image is not acceptable? Thank you.MarmadukePercy (talk) 14:16, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, I wrote asking to create a FlckrLickr account to solve problems just like this, but since then I've seen that no new accounts are accepted. Also, if one wishes to use Flickr images (and one knows the author), can one obtain permission from the author and post it with the photo -- or is it best to ask the author to change their copyright designation on the image itself? Thank you!MarmadukePercy (talk) 14:21, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

More specific category

May I suggest Category:Union flag as a more specific category than Category:Flags of the United Kingdom --Tony Wills (talk) 19:58, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Categories and Languages to be added

{{editprotected}}

This file should be added to these categories:

• [Category:Blue, red, white flags]
• [Category:SVG flags - United Kingdom] instead of [Category:SVG flags]
• [Category:SVG sovereign state flags]
• [Category:Union flag]

I also this new, more uniform list for the description to be added to and replace some of the current list. The first eleven are indigenous and historical languages of the United Kingdom:

English: Flag of the United Kingdom, Union Flag

Ænglisc: Fana Geānlǣhte Cynerīces

Cymraeg: Baner y Deyrnas Unedig

Français : Drapeau du Royaume-Uni

Latina: Vexillum Britanniarum Regni

Gaeilge: Bratach na Ríochta Aontaithe

Gàidhlig: Bratach na Rìoghachd Aonaichte

Gaelg: Brattagh y Reeriaght Unnaneysit

Kernowek: Baner an Ruwvaneth Unys

Nouormand: Couleu du Rouoyaume Unni

Scots: Banner o Unitit Kinrick

The rest are the remaining languages of the European Union, plus Luxembourgish and Turkish. The current Maltese description should be corrected.

Български: Национално знаме на Обединеното кралство

Česky: Vlajka Spojeného království

Dansk: Storbritanniens flag

Español: Bandera del Reino Unido

Deutsch: Flagge des Vereinigten Königreichs

Ελληνικά: Σημαία του Ηνωμένου Βασιλείου

Eesti: Suurbritannia lipp

Suomi: Yhdistyneen kuningaskunnan lippu

Magyar: Az Egyesült Királyság zászlaja

Italiano: Bandiera britannica

Lëtzebuergesch: Fandel vum Vereenegt Kinnekräich

Lietuvių: Jungtinės Karalystės vėliava

Latviešu: Apvienotās Karalistes karogs

Malti: Bandiera tar-Renju Unit

Nederlands: Vlag van het Verenigd Koninkrijk

Polski: Flaga Wielkiej Brytanii

Português: Bandeira do Reino Unido

Română: Drapelul Regatului Unit

Slovenčina: Vlajka Spojeného kráľovstva

Slovenščina: Zastava Združenega kraljestva

Svenska: Storbritanniens unionsflagga

Türkçe: Birleşik Krallık bayrağı

Homo lupus (talk) 18:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

• Done. odder 19:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

Italiano: Bandiera del Regno Unito

--Guybrush Threepwood (talk) 10:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

As the above Guybrush Threepwood requested, the Italian description should be changed, since the link is broken. Homo lupus (talk) 19:34, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

 Done--Justass (talk) 07:48, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Description

Please add a description in Russian, I can't edit the file since it's protected.

Русский: Флаг Соединённого Королевства

New Category

Please add to the category Naval Jacks under United Kingdom Fry1989 (talk) 00:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Correction of fields

{{editprotected}}

Change:

• Author to "Original by James I of England/James VI of Scotland; Recreation by last uploader"
• Date to 1603
• Permission to {{PD-1923}} (for US) {{PD-UK-known}} (for country of origin)

The Union Jack is in the public domain and should reflect that fact. It is not the original creation of the uploader (especially since this is a facsimile of it). Jappalang (talk) 01:39, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

You may now edit the page. Rocket000 (talk) 03:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)