File talk:Libyan Uprising.svg/Archive 2

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March 19

  • Bengazi: under siege ---> yellow.
  • Ajdabya: Suppose taken by Government since their forces are in siege of Bengazi. No reports of figthing there. Could go green.

--Mile (talk) 08:01, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


"Suppose" ... "No reports" --> very vague, the troops can pass without taking the city? If we don't know yellow? 83.185.154.108 09:09, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Rebel medias stoped informing for Ajdabya, and would be strange they are at Bengazi not taking Ajdabya, knowing road to Bengazi pass Ajdabya. But yes, migth be some figthing still there, could be yellow also. --Mile (talk) 10:35, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Most sources are reporting fights breaking out in Ajdabia today.[1][2][3]. Rafy (talk) 10:51, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Ajdabyia should not be green, it's yellow at best. Qaddafi's troops bypassed Ajdabiya. —Nightstallion (?) 10:55, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

What's the source for the changes in Nalut and Yafran? —Nightstallion (?) 13:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Al Sharq Al Awsat is reporting fresh attacks on both nalut and zintan. Anti-Gaddafi libyan sources have confirmed this.[4] Some western media sources are also reporting this.[5][6]. -- Rafy (talk) 15:14, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Benghazi can be changed to red again, see the source at Second Battle of Benghazi. There are also reports that Ajdabiya has been freed and the revolutionaries are marching west, but we'll have to wait for more on that. —Nightstallion (?) 12:41, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

March 20

  • According to various sources on twitter and Dutch news agency, the Gadaffian forces in Zintan have now joined the rebellion and should therefore be black. SK-luuut (talk) 13:38, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Benghazi is no longer under attack by forces loyal to Gaddafi according to Al-Jazeera live blog and various news agencies say that the allied airpower covers the city. The same has been told by the French President Sarkozy. Therefore I believe that Benghazi should be indicated as clearly under Revolutionary control again. --88.196.30.49 14:18, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Bengazi is still under siege as confirmed by AJE moments ago, also some figthing in the city. Bengazi yellow. --Mile (talk) 21:42, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

The BBC confirms that: [7]. I'm going to change it to yellow. Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to mark Yafran as yellow, as I can't find any news about it in since the 16th. Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:36, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Benghazi should be changed to red. There are just sleeper cells in Benghazi, no attacks by Gaddaffi's out of city troops.Zenithfel (talk) 10:43, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Well the BBC [8] has it as "recent clashes", but the Washington Post [9] has it as rebel held. IMHO that means it might be situation unclear. But I'm open to counter-arguments; this map has frankly been in front of the maps created by the major news organizations for a while. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:44, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Your BBC one does not have a date on it, and recent clashes could mean "recent days".Zenithfel (talk) 11:56, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

[10] This source at the 12:41 section says Ajdabiya is the front line, not Benghazi.Zenithfel (talk) 11:58, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

McClatchy also reports Benghazi is firmly in rebel hands. -Kudzu1 (talk) 12:27, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Alright; I've changed it back. Magog the Ogre (talk) 12:29, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


Benghazi reversion?

I question the reversion of the map to showing Benghazi in dispute. Media and eyewitnesses are reporting Benghazi is firmly in republican hands after the rebels and French air assets destroyed Gaddafist forces attacking the city. That happened a day and a half ago; journalists are advancing with the rebels toward whatever's left of Ajdabiya right now. I think Benghazi should be dark red, and I'm not sure why it was changed back after initially being updated to reflect the present situation. -Kudzu1 (talk) 11:47, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

We are discussing this exactly two sections up. And can you please provide a link to that? Thanks. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:50, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Bengazi should be, and correctly was, in yellow on 20th March. AJE, Reuters confirmed figting in the city and ongoing siege. Period. Also Wikimedia isnt propaganda site. --Mile (talk) 12:47, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Wait, what? Why are you mentioning the 20th of March? And what does propaganda have to do with anything? No one is advocating propaganda. Magog the Ogre (talk) 13:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Obviously some do. Like those 2 days old accounts with strange reverts. --Mile (talk) 16:36, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

It seemed like a valid opposition to me. I also caught some flack for the change on the Spanish language version from an IP: File talk:Libyan Uprising-es.svg. I was convinced enough by the sources provided that I made it red. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:11, 22 March 2011 (UTC)


Bani Walid

Going back to Bani Walid, I think that is in pro-Gaddafi control. Here there is a photo of one member o a tribe, loyal to Gaddafi, in Bani Walid. It seems there is no violence in the city and, if he is a pro-Gaddafi soldair, the city must have been taken by Loyalists. However, its a suposition and it needs to be confirmed. Does someones knows something about this? --Ave César Filito (talk) 23:15, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

AFAIK that's bad research by AJ, or a typo; Warfallah is not "loyal to Qaddafi". —Nightstallion (?) 23:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
I think there are enough sources pointing out to the fact that it is still loyal to Gaddafi. Warfala is a huge tribe with hundreds of thousands in western Libya, some of them are against Gaddafi some with him. Rafy (talk) 00:14, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree with Rafy. I think Bani Walid must be in green. --Ave César Filito (talk) 00:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, without evidence to the contrary, we'll have to take the latest source (at AJE at 6:29am) and make it green. —Nightstallion (?) 09:21, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done.--Rafy (talk) 11:07, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I havent read for some figthing for Bani Walid, so yes, i suppose it was in Governemt hands some time ago, perhaps even wasnt any figthing there. --Mile (talk) 14:26, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Bani Walid is definitively under government control, see this: Libya's biggest tribe joins march of reconciliation to Benghazi. --93.142.156.25 09:16, 25 March 2011 (UTC)


24th March

Reports Misrata is taken by Government troops, also its port. Some confirming would be OK till Misrata goes Green. --Mile (talk) 14:39, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Source? March 24 AJE Live Blog (7:37pm) reports that rebels claim to have killed 30 snipers in addition to recapturing the town centre. Seems to me the conflict is still ongoing. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 23:47, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


Zwitina in rebel hands

Zwitina, port just NW from Ajdabiya, is in rebel hands and they are lanching attacks on Ajdabiya from there, see Libya action could last ‘a while,’ official says.

--93.142.156.25 08:52, 25 March 2011 (UTC)


Zintan

I've marked Zintan as being under anti-government troops, per BBC News live blog which quote a rebel spokesman. I agree it's hardly the best possible source, but reports coming out of Zintan in general agree that, while having been under some sort of pro-Gaddafi attack a few days ago, life is actually close to as normal as possible in Libya right now. Anyway, if there are better sources saying otherwise, please revert my edit - I'm primarily active on English Wikipedia, so I might not see if anything is wrong here. (Seems a couple more changes may be necessary in the coming time. Pro-Gaddafi forces are losing Ajdabiya, it seems, and I haven't seen anything about Yafran. Misrata might have already changed hands, but probably too soon to make it "official" as it seems pro-Gaddafi forces still hold some parts of the town.) Peasantwarrior (talk) 18:26, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Zintan has been under control of rebels for a couple of days, but currently there are are tens of tanks near the city, so I think it should be blue again.--SK-luuut (talk) 00:39, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Once those tanks attack, then sure, move it back to blue, but I think it should stay the color it is now. 140.247.146.138 13:49, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


Brega

"Al Jazeera reports that Libyan rebels have advanced 40km from the eastern town of Ajdabiya towards Brega." http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/live-blog-libya-march-26 --> Yellow? 83.185.154.35 11:14, 26 March 2011 (UTC)Sorry blue i mean 83.185.154.35 11:19, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

"James Bays from AlJazeera English reporting that opposition forces have recaptured Ajdabiya and with little threat also captured Brega and are on their way to Ras Lanouf." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2011_Libyan_uprising 83.185.154.35 13:35, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
The information for that bit on the timeline is from the Libya 17 Feb site, which unfortunately often leans towards rebel propaganda. I wouldn't be surprised (or disappointed) to see it switch hands by the end of the day though! 140.247.146.138 13:51, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok. However, unclear situation Brega and Ras Lanouf? --> blue. At least Brega. 83.185.154.35 14:07, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Alright, AJE's confirmed the Brega takeover. No fighting reported in Ras Lanuf yet though. (Al Jazeera) 140.247.244.122 14:57, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Actually, Brega is now confirmed per AJE Live blog. "Rebels tell the AFP news agency they have retaken the eastern town of Brega, and a journalist confirms their forces are in the town centre." Thus, I'm changing the color to brown. Of course, if new information come up, revert my edit. No word about Ras Lanuf, but it seems unlikely to me there's any fighting there yet. Peasantwarrior (talk) 17:06, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
"BREAKING NEWS: The BBC can confirm that rebel forces have retaken Brega." Good enough for the change. Grandiose (talk) 09:07, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


Updating maps

It would be nice if, when updating these maps, users would update the other language maps as well. We have a total of 8 or 9 that need a daily update. I realize it's a bit of a pain, but it's worth the price to not have other languages left behind simply because they have a different writing system. I'd love to be the one to do it, but I have many many things on my plate that I'm already backed up on. Magog the Ogre (talk) 17:18, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Anybody? Magog the Ogre (talk) 17:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


Ras Lanuf

According to BBC live blog, "AFP correspondents in Ras Lanuf say rebels have retaken the key oil town. We'll bring you more on this as we get it." ((0938)). Thoughts? Should we color it brown (which is correct, according to AFP, but I haven't seen any other sources and it does seem rather fast for rebels to reach Ras Lanuf already, although it surprised me how fast they reached Brega, so everything's possible) or blue (to be on the safe side until there are more reports)? Either way, green is obviously incorrect. Peasantwarrior (talk) 09:50, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Ras Lanuf definitely under rebel control, per BBC and AJE. Changing it to brown. Also, rebels seem to be in control of Uqayla, but the town is not currently on our map, so nothing to do here. Peasantwarrior (talk) 10:26, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


Bin Jawad

Al Arabiya claims that rebels have retaken Bin Jawad source: http://twitter.com/#!/AlArabiya_Eng 92.104.114.119 11:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC) Also now BBC arabic states that rebels have entered Bin Jawad 92.104.114.119 11:29, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
AFP confirms: http://research.tdameritrade.com/public/markets/news/story.asp?docKey=1-BT20110327001512-018KGH1KQOPKOH5MPEBP45DTV7&clauses= 92.104.114.119 11:44, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Seems sourced enough. :) Done. Thank you. Peasantwarrior (talk) 12:40, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the map change, here is some further sourcing http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_649954.html Zenithfel (talk) 12:43, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Here there´s no information about this ant it seems Ras Lanuf was the last city who surrunder to Rebels. Blue? --Ave César Filito (talk) 13:07, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I've just watched a AJE reporter live from Bin Jawad. It is in protester control . Also on the link above it states: "There are reports Libyan rebels have taken back control of the town of Bin Jawad, about 525km east of Tripoli, as they push forward towards Gaddafi's stronghold of Sirte on Sunday, according to Reuters." 92.104.114.119 13:15, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, when I wrote it they haven´t put it yet, but now it´s confirmed. --Ave César Filito (talk) 13:18, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Hehe Libyans and Wikipedians move too fast :) (found my old acc again) ScepticMatt (talk) 13:22, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


Sirt/Sirte/Surt

Reuters states: "Libyan rebel spokesman says Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte has fallen into the hands of the rebels" http://twitter.com/#!/Reuters
Will try to add more sources over time ScepticMatt (talk) 02:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
AJE live state they have correspondents on the ground, will confirm soon ScepticMatt (talk) 02:51, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

As the situation is unclear, I'd suggest recolouring the dot for Sirt to blue for the time being. AJE and Reuters should be able to confirm soon, hopefully with live images. -Kudzu1 (talk) 02:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Agree, blue for now. But it will probably be confirmed before someone changes it :) ScepticMatt (talk) 03:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Without confirmation, I'm just not buying it. We've heard this tune before where it proved wildly untrue: see #Sirt above. Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:22, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


AJE stated on TV: in talk with transitional council, states: Rebels moved into Sirt, little resistance
still waiting from news from front line, will update them asap ScepticMatt (talk) 04:04, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Per BBC, there are coalition airstrikes there, although that doesn't qualify as ongoing fighting IMHO, as the coalition has struck everywhere in Libya. Importantly, it states "A rebel spokesman in Benghazi has said Sirte is now in the hands of rebel forces - but there has been no independent confirmation of the claim." My recommendation is that we wait another 8-12 hours for a reliable source to pick this up; it sounds like AJE is just echoing the rebel spokesman. You'll have to pardon my skepticism - but I just don't see Sirt falling like a house of cards after there was a week of battle on Ajdabiya. I could certainly be wrong, but no resistance at all? Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:13, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
I will just try to post sources as they become available, as I did with Bin Jawad above. I too wonder why there allegedly was little resistence though. As for airstrikes multiple sources (e.g. AJE) say they were focused on Sirte this night ScepticMatt (talk) 04:22, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree, though the impression I got from Ajdabiya was that coalition airstrikes (and, to a lesser extent, rebel militias) destroyed virtually all of the Gaddafist armour and artillery, leaving the regime's soldiers outnumbered and no longer able to rely on the tactical advantage of having heavy weapons against the republicans' small arms - and judging by how speedily the advance rolled through Brega, Uqayla, Ras Lanouf, and Bin Jawad, the Gaddafists made the same mistake that cost the rebels a couple weeks ago and didn't bother fortifying and consolidating their gains during their thwarted campaign toward Benghazi. When the spearhead of their assault shattered in Benghazi and Ajdabiya, that might have been the last of Gaddafi's military power in central Libya. But yes, let's wait for journalists to independently confirm the situation in Sirte from the ground. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:27, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
To clarify: I think the dot should be recoloured blue, but we should wait for confirmation before changing it to dark red. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:56, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


AFP Reports: 9 powerful explosions heard in Sirte (via skynews twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/SkyNewsBreak). Damn I need to slow down posting, things are moving too fast ScepticMatt (talk)

I think it should indeed be blue, as it is very likely tthat Sirt has in fact been captured by the rebels. In a couple of hours it could be red. Looks like that one of two possibilities is happening: 1. Gaddafi sent everything and everyone to take back the town and reach Benghazi and left no one behind on the way to defend what he reconquered. 2. He is retreating and simply abandoning the towns in the gulf of Sirte, sending his troops to Tripoli for his own protection and defense. 187.77.28.194 05:11, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Various conflicting reports, with AJE claiming "pretty much confirmed" but Reuters reporter stating "still in Gaddafi hands" goo.gl/4S7bD ScepticMatt (talk) 07:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
The Times states that the reports of transitional council are "premature". Various other reporters (AJE, Sky ) are heading there now ScepticMatt (talk) 07:13, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Times quote: "Rebel forces were today closing in on Colonel Gaddafi’s hometown of Sirte, a critical prize on the road to Tripoli. As morning broke Sirte still looked to be in government hands, but The Times, which is one of a few foreign media outlets in the town, heard explostions caused by air strikes that began at 4am local time (3am BST)" http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/ ScepticMatt (talk) 07:24, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


Reutersflash: "No indication that Libyan city of Sirte is under rebel control - Reuters reporter in Sirte" so that pretty much confirms it then. http://twitter.com/#!/REUTERSFLASH

Quote: "It looks pretty normal from what we have seen," said the reporter, on a Libyan government-organised trip to Sirte. He said he had seen some police and military in the town, but no signs of any fighting. (Reporting by Michael Georgy; Writing by Christian Lowe; Editing by Jon Hemming)"

Sorry everone, starts to look like AJE/AJA (and others) blew this one, and Magog the Ogre is right - for now at least ScepticMatt (talk) 07:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Dunno if I'd say they blew it ("rebel fighter who claims that he was part of the force that took [Sirte]", "Al Jazeera has so far not been able to independently verify whether or not the city has been taken", "live pictures of fighting at Nofilia, on the road to Sirte", "mines", "have been halted about 140km east", "'Gaddafi's soldiers are firing rockets from Sirte', says a rebel", "There is currently an engagement about 180km east of Sirte, near the city of Nofilia/Nawfaliya", "early reports... may have been down to scouts being able to get into the city without facing armed opposition", "sustained bombardment on the road... to Nofilia") so they seem pretty on top of it. They were always identified as rebel and Benghazi gov't claims. But this does make me think we might want to add a "Nofilia" circle and blue-ify it to show the real front line. We might also want to create a Battle of Nofilia article, in fact, or a Sirte Offensive or something. 140.247.144.74 12:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.