File talk:Nepkoztarsasag.png

Problems related to this work

User VT wrotte: „this version is right, then those territories were under occupation“

My answer: Dear fellow user, I would remind you about some facts: proclamation of Hungarian independence from Austria-Hungary was a violation of sovereignty of Austria-Hungary as much as proclamation of Yugoslavia was. Both, Yugoslavia and Hungary were recognized as independent states by the Treaty of Saint-Germain on September 10, 1919, as you can see here: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/517198/Treaty-of-Saint-Germain Before that treaty, both of them (Hungary and Yugoslavia) were de facto independent unrecognized states and both had same status that violated legality of Austria-Hungary. Therefore, if Yugoslavia was an occupier then proclaimed independent Hungary was an occupier too because its independence was not legally recognized until September 10, 1919. It is POV to present only Yugoslavia as an occupying power here because Yugoslavia certainly was not an foreign occupying power – it was a de facto independent state created by Austro-Hungarian citizens (same as de facto independent Hungary). Due to that, we have to present this in NPOV way: either both states (Yugoslavia and Hungary) were occupiers either both were not. The proper NPOV presentation here would be to regard both countries as successor states of Austria-Hungary and to use word „control“ instead „occupation“ for territories that they controled. Second problem is size of marked Yugoslav territory. I do not understand why only part of Yugoslav-controled territories is marked with blue color. Croatia was part of the Kingdom of Hungary before World War I as much as Vojvodina, so if intention was that this map show former territories of the Kingdom of Hungary controled by Yugoslavia there is no reason that Croatia is excluded from this territory. Third problem is question of Serb or Yugoslav control. Serbian army controled these territories only until December 1, 1918 when Yugoslavia was created. After that date there is no more Serbian army, but only Yugoslav (or joint Serb-Croat-Slovene) army. In the time period presented in this map Serbian army simply did not existed as such. These are serious errors that should be corrected. I can accept that territory controled by Yugoslavia is presented here, but with 3 correction: 1. Such territory should include Croatia, 2. Serbia or Serbian army did not existed in this time, so terms Yugoslav or Serb-Croat-Slovene should be used instead, 3. If term occupation is used for Yugoslavia then it should be used for Hungary too (or it should not be used for any of the two). 123iti (talk) 00:15, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

"It is POV to present only Yugoslavia as an occupying power here because Yugoslavia certainly was not an foreign occupying power" It is POV. Serb situation was very similar to the Romanians. Serbs were invaders. Serbs had "homeland".... Fakirbakir (talk) 21:28, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Could I please ask for some clarification? Under whose control were the yellow territories, including Nyitra and Kolozsvar? It is not clear from this map. Thank you. - Themightyquill (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I've uploaded the vectorgraphic version: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tanácsköztársaság.svg --Christo (talk) 10:55, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

There are not many words needed. The main problem is that we absolutely do not know on which sources this map is based. "Own work" from an unknown Hungarian author is not enough. --Roxanna (talk) 09:16, 30 June 2016 (UTC)