Help talk:Converting video

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[edit] regarding # 1.1 ffmpeg2theora

  • It didn't work for me while using version 0.16 on Windows XP:

"ffmpeg2theora file.avi".

  • I needed to type "ffmpeg2theora-0.16.exe file.avi".

(unsigned, by Logictheo)

[edit] RAD

Does it stand for "Rapid application development"? Logictheo 11:22, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

You might be more likey to find an answer to this at the RAD Game Tools' website. Jecowa 08:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ffmpeg2theora and MPlayer OS X do not work

On 1.1 is mentioned "ffmpeg2theora is probably the most popular converter ...", but I did not have much success with it with my Macintosh computer OS 10.4.10.

I downloaded the binary of ffmpeg2theora-0,19 for macos x(universal) from the page http://www.v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/download.html I installed it on my computer, but I could not find anywhere on the disk the installed file. Contact with the writer of the software did not solve this problem but he had an other piece of software where he was working on. Available from http://v2v.cc/~j/Simple%20Theora%20Encoder.dmg That program did not work with a Quicktime .mov file. For that reason I had to convert the QuickTime file first with QuickTime Pro to a MPEG-4 file and then the Simple Theora Encoder.

The next step was that I wanted to see the .ogg file on my computer.

On page http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Media_help/Macintosh is mentioned that to play sound files in Ogg Vorbis and video files in Ogg Theora on a Mac computer, you only need to download and install ... MPlayer OS X. I did (version 2.0b9r5). As my own generated .ogg file did not play, I downloaded the file Apollo_15_splashdown.ogg? as mentioned on page http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Apollo_15_splashdown.ogg  In MPlayer I get only the sound and not the video.

In the list of bugs I found that a complaint submitted on 2006-02-18 says This file from Wikipedia plays far too fast: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Universal_declaration_of_human_rights_VN.ogg

I tried that file and indeed it still plays too fast one and a half year after the complaint was summitted.

Further I read from users-forum that the program can affect other programs as far as the sound is concerned.

My conclusion: For Macintosh there is only beta-type software that does not work properly.

My question: Is there other (commercial or shareware) software that works to convert to .ogg files and that is able to play these files. I want to see something working before I upload files to Wiki. --Wouter 22:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the installer of ffmpeg2theora for Macintosh is overly complicated and incompetent. I had manually install the thing. I will post instructions. There is easier software with a GUI now. Although it is easier to use than ffmpeg2theora and more compatible, it has much fewer options, and the files it is more compatible with look horible once converted to OGG. As long as your input is ecoded with MPEG, it will be fine, though. Here's a link for the GUI software Help:Converting_video#SimpleTheoraEncoder. Jecowa 10:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh, yes there is commercial software, You can try QuickTime Pro with the Theora QuickTime plug-ins (I haven't tested this, though, as I am too cheap). You can also use those plug-ins with iMove, but you don't have very many options using the Theora plug-ins with iMovie. You can't choose any audio options. The only video options you get are video quality, data rate, frame rate, key frame rate, sharpness, and optimization. I guess that's quite a bit, but I would trade a few of those for video resolution. It's pretty dumb to convert a 320x240 MPEG into a 720x480 OGG. I agree with you that Theora is beta-quality software. Ogg supporters talk about "freedom" while denying us the freedom to select video codecs ourselves. Jecowa 08:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Software feature

Video conversion should be built into Mediawiki. Upload any format and it will convert to ogg theora internally. — Omegatron 17:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, users should be encouraged to convert themselves (to save server resources), but the conversion process is too complicated for many people. Jecowa 10:24, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Looping

How do you loop video with the ffmpeg2theora application? Jecowa 11:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ffmpeg2theora and audio

ffmpeg2theora is converting video just fine, but it is not converting any of the audio channels of the video files that I tell it to convert. Is ffmpeg2theora able to convert the audio channels of video files? If so, what codecs does it support? If not, how is audio added to files converted with ffmprg2theora? Jecowa 07:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

This blows. I'm sticking with animated GIFs. Jecowa 03:54, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feedback

I had a lot of problems trying to convert videos with VLC. Thanks to this site I've tried ffmpeg2theora and it worked immediately. Thanks! --Flominator 18:17, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] conversion fail

While most of the programs and examples here just don't work for me, a few of them (the newest version of ffmpeg2theora-0.21, and Mux) convert with some sort of audio offset problem. I'm trying to convert this video (http://www.kunsan.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070914-043.wmv); can anybody give me some suggestions? — pd_THOR | =/\= | 02:53, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I only converted videos once, but I used the SUPER video converter without problems. Waldir talk 20:29, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ogg videos should use "ogv" extension instead of "ogg"

Xiph (the foundation developing Ogg codecs) has deprecated the use of ".ogg" for videos and recommends ".ogv", see MIME Types and File Extensions on the Xiph Wiki. This has also been ratified in an RFC.

So, all the newer videos on Commons should use the "ogv" extension. If no one objects, I will adjust this page (and others) and replace "ogg" with "ogv". Robin Stocker (talk) 15:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] OMG

Ok, I got MediaCoder to convert a video to ogg... then? Whato do I have to do? Is there "any" help page? I am not very familiar with video convertion, can anybody help? --Sailko (talk) 08:56, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

If you did the conversion, now you can just upload. See Commons:Upload. Superm401 - Talk 07:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] OggConvert

what about this tool? i think it's a great one for the normal user. Hidro (talk) 23:40, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Seeking help using online solutions

I'm trying to convert an AVI file to OGG for Commons. The file is eleven seconds long, 7.69 MB on disk, 640 x 424 pixels, and comes from a Nikon D90. It contains both audio and video. I tried the two online solutions

The first one, mux, uploaded the file and after some minutes produced an ogg file. Unfortunately it had no video, but only audio. (I've already uploaded a sound recording and have no need of this.)

The second one, media-convert, uploaded the file and very quickly produced an ogg file. Unfortunately, the 6 kB ogg file has a length of 0 seconds and contains no video or audio. I also tried using media-convert to make a WAV file (it worked fine) and then convert the WAV to OGG (it was still 6 kB, 0 seconds).

So the two sites I tried because they sounded simple didn't work. Any suggestions?

Fg2 (talk) 11:32, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

The first seems to be dead; I have hidden the link to it. The second one has given me similar problems and needs to be reviewed to see if it is actually capable of producing a decent conversion. If anyone knows of any other sites, please provide a link. Richard001 (talk) 10:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Update: media-convert worked for me just then. Seems that it's just a little inconsistent, as you come to expect from free online file converters and rippers. Richard001 (talk) 10:52, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Commons video is disaster

I have just one word for what I am experiencing - disaster. There needs to be a lot of work done to make uploading and playing videos on Commons usable. Hope the new usability project (usability.wikimedia.org) will address some issues.--Kozuch (talk) 17:37, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

This might help: Category:Commons video resources. Thanks for the usability link. I did not know of it. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:00, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
There are few media-related ideas on the original Meta talk page.--Kozuch (talk) 23:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Do you have a link for that Meta talk page? --Timeshifter (talk) 10:21, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] MediaCoder

Could we get some instructions for this? I don't find this program very easy to use and the wiki doesn't seem to be very complete. Richard001 (talk) 10:33, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

The English Wikipedia article seems to hint that it is adware --Keith111 (talk) 04:28, 13 September 2009 (UTC).

I removed the open source claim for MediaCoder. I left a html comment for anyone who knows more to clarify my rewording though. I am not sure why its "open-source"-ness is important though, does it affect the "freeness" of the videos it creates? I have used closed source SUPER without worrying about this. Is it not sufficient that the output format (OGG or Theora) is acceptable to Commons? -84user (talk) 19:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] A more general page on video

A Commons page about video in general, e.g. Help:Video (currently a redirect) is needed. I have thrown down some ideas at User:Richard001/Commons:Video draft, but I haven't worked on it for a while. If anyone is able to take up the task please do. Richard001 (talk) 09:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Audio problems

Another solution is to first simply rencode audio without modifing video with ffmpeg:

ffmpeg -i source -vcodec copy -acodec pcm_s16le -ac 2 target

ffmpeg2theora really doesn't like mono u8 pcm audio, which unfortunately is widely used by compact cameras.

Gonioul (talk) 10:41, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] converting animated GIFs to Theora OGG

I managed to convert animated GIFs to Theora OGG video files, but I am unsure if this is a good way to do it. Here is how, in case anyone else is trying to do the same. I could not find this mentioned in the help files here.

On Windows Vista I already had IrfanView, SUPER, VirtualDub, ffdshow and VLC version 1.0.1 Goldeneye. However, except for SUPER, none of these could convert GIFs for one reason or another, or else I could not find the right options. SUPER does convert a GIF to an OGV but I could not find how to adjust the frame rate and some ultra-fast pop-up reported that something had crashed.

What gave me more options was to use IrfanView and/or gifsicle ([1]) to extract all the frames from a GIF, and then to use ffmpeg2theora-0.25.exe to combine the frames into an OGV.

Problem Some animated GIFs have frames that are not constant in height and width. Using IrfanView to "extract all frames" is then a mistake, because ffmpeg2theora-0.25.exe will either crash or output incorrectly rendered OGV files. You can manually "fix" the sizes by extending the canvas, but that changes the palette, which causes ffmpeg2theora other problems. You can of course import palette to fix this, but for more than a few frames this will be tedious work.

Solution Use the gifsicle option --unoptimize to first make all the GIF's frames the same size. Then use gifsicle option --explode to extract all the frames. Now the frames are all the same size and have the same palette.

Now, gifsicle names these frame files as "text.nnn" where nnn is a number. This is a problem on Windows as ffmpeg2theora-0.25.exe simply refuses to accept such files as valid. Add ".gif" at the end of each, and ffmpeg2theora is happy. On Linux or Unix such renaming is trivial, but how to do it on Windows without requiring the user to download and install yet more programs? Luckily IrfanView has a batch rename tool that does exactly this.

Finally, here is an example of how I converted a largish GIF to a small OGV:

A0. Use gifsicle to create an unoptimized version of the GIF like this:

  gifsicle --unoptimize < PIA07712.gif > unoptimized.gif

A1. explode the unoptimized GIF into frames:

  gifsicle --output gifun --explode < unoptimized.gif

A2. use IrfanView's batch conversion/rename tool to give ".GIF" extensions to all the numbered files:

launch IrfanView, click File / Batch conversion/rename,
under "Work as" click the circle next to "Batch rename"
inside "Name pattern" under "Batch rename settings" type (without quotes):
"un###.gif"
If you have more than 999 frames, type instead "un####.gif".
Inside "Search in" find the directory with your newly extracted GIFs
select all that you wish to rename
click the Add button
inside "Output directory for result files"
click the button labeled "Use current ('look in') directory"
click the Start Batch button
once the renaming is finished click the Exit button

A3. Use ffmpeg2theora to construct the video file:

  ffmpeg2theora-0.25.exe --framerate 2 un%03d.gif --output full.ogv
Conversion is now finished and full.ogv should be a playable video file.
(change %03d to %04d if you typed "un####.gif" above.)
Choose a framerate that makes the video play at the best speed;
25 will be too fast for most animated GIFs, so try 1, 2, and so on.
Use the videoquality option to choose a different quality:
"--videoquality 10" is best while "--videoquality 1" is least

A4. I as able to test whether the full.ogv played Ok by dragging it to the Firefox browser, or by opening it with VLC.

-84user (talk) 06:46, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you know how to select multiple files in the CMD window in Windows? I tried doing ffmpeg2theora-0.25.exe --framerate 2 *.gif -o output.ogv and ffmpeg2theora displayed an error message.
[image2 @ 0x1296fc0]Could not find codec parameters (Video: gif, yuv420p) Unable to decode input.
mahanga (talk) 18:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

The only way I know is with the numbered files syntax, like this:

ffmpeg2theora-0.25.exe --framerate 2 p%04d.gif -o output.ogv

which should take as input, files p0001.gif, p0002.gif and so on in sequence. The sequence does not have to start at 1, but there must be no missing frames. -84user (talk) 21:48, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] SUPER directly converts Quicktime movie to OGG

I just used SUPER on Windows Vista to convert this short movie from NASA to File:Prometheus collides with F ring PIA08397.ogv. No audio was present. I just dragged the movie file to SUPER, selected output container ogg, video codec theora and clicked Encode. I have added SUPER to the help page. -84user (talk) 01:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

It's good to have another alternative. I was unable to convert it using firefogg. mov support has been kinda iffy using it so far. mahanga (talk) 01:49, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Ooops, I did not notice your reply there! I just added my Firefogg experiences below. Although I have created and converted other video types, for conversion to Theora I have only ever (and only in the last 48 hours) tried ffmpeg2theora (mostly good), SUPER (less good but mostly works), and now Firefogg (mostly fails with Quicktime, might be Ok for MPEG). -84user (talk) 02:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Like many of the programs here, Firefogg uses ffmpeg2theora as its backend. It seems ffmpeg2theora has some problems with MOV files, especially when they're 15fps or less. I was able to convert the mov you linked (and another one I was having difficulty with) using GFrontend ffmpeg2theora 2007.2 Final. The programs is a couple years old and uses an older version of ffmpeg2theora but it did it's job. mahanga (talk) 16:25, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Just a quick update. I was not able to convert the video using ffmpeg2theora 0.25. Using ffmpeg2theora 0.24, which is about 7 months old, converts the mov file successfully. Looks like it's a bug when the video has variable framerates. A fix is in SVN [2]. I think for mov files, I'd recommend using the older version 0.24. mahanga (talk) 20:01, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Firefogg performance

Here are my test results after installing the Firefogg extension on Firefox 3.5.3 under Windows Vista. Quick summary: it converts MPEG files Ok, but Quicktime poorly.

Test 1. Nuvola apps error.png Not OK how well does it convert Quicktime using default settings?

download PIA08397_full_movie.mov from http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/animation/PIA08397
(I chose a Quicktime movie that has been successfully converted by ffmpeg2theora)
In Firefox browse to http://firefogg.org/make/ and click on select new file
choose the file PIA08397_full_movie.mov just downloaded
click Save Ogg
examine the saved OGG file, and I found:
(a) the OGG was far too small (and poor quality)
(b) it has the wrong frame rate (25 instead of the original 6)

Test 2. Nuvola apps error.png Not OK how well does it convert Quicktime with best settings?

download PIA08397_full_movie.mov from http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/animation/PIA08397
(I chose a movie file that has already been successfully converted using ffmpeg2theora)
In Firefox browse to http://firefogg.org/make/ and click on select new file
choose the file PIA08397_full_movie.mov I just downloaded
click "Preset: Custom settings" and change it to "High Quality Theora Vorbis 1080p max width"
click "Basic quality and resolution control" and make these changes
set quality to the maximum 10
leave video width and height at 400
click Advanced video editing controls and make these changes
set Video bit rate to the maximum 2757
set the frame rate to the minimum 12
click Advanced audio encoding controls and click the No Audio checkbox
click Save Ogg, and I found:
(a) the OGG was still too small
(b) on some settings ffmpeg2theora crashed
(c) Firefogg hangs at "100% - Transcoded"


Test 3. Symbol OK.svg OK how well does it convert MPEG with default settings?

download PIA08397_full_movie.mov from http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/animation/PIA08397
use the SUPER program to convert it to a 298 kilobyte MPEG: PIA08397_full_movie.mpg
In Firefox browse to http://firefogg.org/make/ and click on select new file
choose the file PIA08397_full_movie.mpg
click Save Ogg, and I found:
(a) the OGG was 170 KB
(b) the OGG movie played Ok inside Firefox and in VLC
Symbol OK.svg OK I repeated this test 3 but I selected "Low bandwidth" and it created a 55 KB OGG movie, also playable
Nuvola apps error.png Not OK I repeated this test 3 but I selected "High quality" and ffmpeg2theora crashed each time


Test 4. Nuvola apps error.png Not OK how does it handle ffmpeg2theora crashes?

download a Quicktime movie file known to crash ffmpeg2theora, for example PIA08262_full_movie.mov from NASA
In Firefox browse to http://firefogg.org/make/ and click on select new file
choose the file PIA08262_full_movie.mov just downloaded
click Save Ogg
when ffmpeg2theora crashes (or hangs), click the "X" in the top right of the Firefogg dialog window
click Ok when the dialog asks "Are you sure you want to cancel?"
the dialog window then reports "Sorry we do not yet support cancel on windows"
this left that page unusable until I reloaded it and started again.

-84user (talk) 02:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Good testing, 84user. Firefogg has worked well using some video I've taken with my digital camera (.avi files). I did a couple tests using sample files from Apple and it transcoded them successfully. Ideally, with Firefogg soon becoming implemented on Commons, we should have some testing done on which files work best and which don't. mahanga (talk) 19:05, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Tests and thoughts

Here are some of my tests and thoughts. -84user (talk) 16:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Convert OGV to animated GIF

I was asked if I knew how to convert OGV media to animated GIF. Answer: not at first, but here is what happened while trying. Summary: one-step SUPER converts poorly; two-step via sequence of images is better but only for some videos.

I tested these OGV input files (Firefox 3.5+ plays all with no problem):

1. File:Something-for-cheese.ogg, 13 seconds, 320×120 pixels, 10 fps
2. File:Mars Phoenix Sol 151 weather.ogv, an upscaled OGV I created from NASA raw images, 4 seconds, 240×416 pixels, 1 fps, 54kbps
3. File:Ap16_rover.ogg, 15 seconds, 320×240 pixels, 30 fps

Results using program SUPER to convert direct to GIF and to a sequence of images:

Test file ; direct to GIF? ; to sequence of frames?
--------- ; --------------; ----------------------
1. ...... ; distorted .... ; WORKS but letter-boxed to 128 pixels height
2. ...... ; distorted .... ; FAILS: missing key frames
3. ...... ; poor quality . ; WORKS

Because SUPER can convert some OGV files to a sequence of images, I next tried to use gifsicle to create a GIF from those SUPER-converted images.

I first had to use IrfanView's batch function to convert all the PNG files to GIF.

To convert all the images extracted from File:Something-for-cheese.ogg I used this command line:

gifsicle.exe --delay 50 s0001.gif s0002.gif s0003.gif s0004.gif s0005.gif s0006.gif s0007.gif s0008.gif s0009.gif s0010.gif s0011.gif s0012.gif s0013.gif s0014.gif s0015.gif s0016.gif s0017.gif s0018.gif s0019.gif s0020.gif s0021.gif s0022.gif s0023.gif s0024.gif s0025.gif s0026.gif s0027.gif s0028.gif s0029.gif s0030.gif s0031.gif s0032.gif s0033.gif s0034.gif s0035.gif s0036.gif s0037.gif s0038.gif s0039.gif s0040.gif s0041.gif s0042.gif s0043.gif s0044.gif s0045.gif s0046.gif s0047.gif s0048.gif s0049.gif s0050.gif s0051.gif s0052.gif s0053.gif s0054.gif s0055.gif s0056.gif s0057.gif s0058.gif s0059.gif s0060.gif s0061.gif s0062.gif s0063.gif s0064.gif s0065.gif s0066.gif s0067.gif s0068.gif s0069.gif s0070.gif s0071.gif s0072.gif s0073.gif s0074.gif s0075.gif s0076.gif s0077.gif s0078.gif s0079.gif s0080.gif s0081.gif s0082.gif s0083.gif s0084.gif s0085.gif s0086.gif s0087.gif s0088.gif s0089.gif s0090.gif s0091.gif s0092.gif s0093.gif s0094.gif s0095.gif s0096.gif s0097.gif s0098.gif s0099.gif s0100.gif s0101.gif s0102.gif s0103.gif s0104.gif s0105.gif s0106.gif s0107.gif s0108.gif s0109.gif s0110.gif s0111.gif s0112.gif s0113.gif s0114.gif s0115.gif s0116.gif s0117.gif s0118.gif s0119.gif s0120.gif s0121.gif s0122.gif s0123.gif > somechee.gif

gifsicle reported this warning:

gifsicle.exe: warning: so many colors that local colormaps were required
gifsicle.exe: (You may want to try '--colors 256'.)

and created a nearly 2 megabyte GIF, which however, both IrfanView and Firefox could play (but colour artifacts were present).

Conclusions (after more tests):

  • it seems possible but inadvisable for large numbers of frames.
  • SUPER PART-WORKS sometimes: it converts OGV to GIF only with a limited set of scale sizes and aspect ratios
  • SUPER FAILS sometimes: it converts some OGV to sequence of diff-images but without key frames
  • gifsicle requires the OGV be first split into separate frames

-84user (talk) 16:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] ffmpeg2theora 0.25+svn16605

I saw User:Mahanga's note above about problems with ffmpeg2theora 0.25.

I used both the normal 0.25 and the latest preview Windows binary from http://v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/download.html that identifies itself as:

ffmpeg2theora 0.25+svn16605 - Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)

and it worked just as well as the "non-svn" 0.25 when I converted sequence of PNG files to OGV. I tested AVI conversion but no MOV format videos.

The 0.25 version I was using identifies itself as:

ffmpeg2theora 0.25 - Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)

-84user (talk) 16:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I had thought the 0.25 SVN version was was better than 0.25 when converting MOV files to ogv, but that doesn't appear to be the case. However, ffmpeg2theora 0.24 does work on the mov you mentioned above and other ones. direct link here. mahanga (talk) 18:35, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Update: Thank you for the 0.24 link. I have now tested various ffmpeg2theora versions. The "GFrontend ffmpeg2theora 2007.2 Final" version linked above in section "Help talk:Converting video#SUPER directly converts Quicktime movie to OGG" identified itself as "ffmpeg2theora 0.18". Version 0.18 converts the 2000 kilobyte NASA MOV file well. I did not run the installation program; it was sufficient to extract the command-line executable from the archive file.

Program version converts to OGV? size q=0 size q=5 size q=6 size q=10
0.18 YES 32 67 81 231
0.24 YES 36 78 98 289
0.25 WRONG RATE 18 50 61 158
0.25 +fps fudge YES 18 50 61 159
0.25+svn16605 WRONG RATE 18 .. 61 158
0.25+svn+fudge YES 18 .. .. 159

Key: size is of converted OGV file in kilobytes; q=number is the --videoquality value passed to ffmpeg2theora (0 is lowest, 10 is best)
fps fudge is a workaround of --inputfps 6 --framerate 6 to both override the input fps and to force the output frame rate, because ffmpeg2theora 0.25 (both current version and with svn16605) appears to convert some Quick Time MOV files to OGV at the wrong frame rate (far too fast). -84user (talk) 19:21, 6 November 2009 (UTC) (added 2007.2 links -84user (talk) 22:13, 8 November 2009 (UTC))

Why are you using a 2007 version of SUPER, when there's one released in 2009. Secondly, how did you find the ffmpeg2theora version number in SUPER? I ask b/c I'd like to figure out the version SUPER 2009b36 is using. Thanks. mahanga (talk) 01:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

My SUPER version is 2008.build.30 dated Mar 22, 2008. Inertia is why I don't use the 2009 version. I did not intend to claim knowledge of which ffmpeg2theora version SUPER uses, that was just my clumsy grammar. I've just improved the text above. However, inside each OGV file created by SUPER 2008.build.30 I find the text "Xiph.Org libTheora I 20040317 3 2 0" (I use the emacs text editor to open the OGV), while inside OGV created by ffmpef2theora-0.25 I find "Xiph.Org libtheora 1.1 20090822 (Thusnelda)" and inside OGV from ffmpef2theora-0.18 I find "Xiph.Org libTheora I 20060526 3 2 0", so I suspect my SUPER uses an even older library. I may upgrade in a week. -84user (talk) 22:13, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Update: I have now installed SUPER version 2009.build.36, and it has more features and converts MOV files to OGV that play Ok on Firefox and VLC (but not MPC). It makes inconsistent reports on the frame rate - it claims 25 when the original was 6 for example (does this explain why MPC plays some SUPER-generated OGG videos too fast?). Second, it uses green instead of black when padding videos. Third, it still offers too-limited a set of options. Fourth, unlike the 2008 version, SUPER outputs OGV files that do not fully identify the theora library used: they now contain only "based on Xiph.Org's libTheora". I cannot determine what ffmpeg2theora version it uses; the included programs are ff2ogg.exe dated 2008-06-29 which looks like an earlier ffmpeg2theora, and ffmpeg.exe dated 2007-01-16 version 0.5.0-pre1,build 4743 Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Fabrice Bellard. In brief, SUPER looks Ok for standard video conversion, but I prefer the full power that ffmpeg2theora command line gives me. -84user (talk) 22:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thoughts on help

My quick thoughts on the content of Wikimedia's help for Converting videos?

be honest - list the known limitations and workarounds
be verifiable - detail the source media used, the system environment and the process
we need a test suite of media files

I feel such Help needs to avoid frustrating users with instructions that may not always work. At the same time, it should give as many different ways as possible as I have not seen one program handle all cases.

Here are some limitations I have experienced:

VLC misses the first 0.3 seconds of any audio input - a showstopper for short sounds
VLC plays some Theora OGV media badly
Media Player Classic with the CCCPack also has problems
firefogg does not provide the user with all the ffmpeg2theora options
SUPER has problems with certain OGV media

What works well?

Firefox 3.5 appears to play all kinds of OGV media correctly, so far.

-84user (talk) 16:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't aware there were problems with media players badly playing Theora videos. I'll have to do some testing of my own. What version of VLC are you using that's giving you issues? The same with MPC and the CCCPack. mahanga (talk) 22:31, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I think most of the frustration comes from the conversion tools. Not all videos can be easily converted. There is one program which should handle most cases and that is ffmpeg2theora. It's what SUPER, FFCoder and others use. If a video isn't being converted, then it's likely a bug or maybe a codec that hasn't been implemented yet. We need to list these videos and note their codec, framerate, etc. Then one should try using an older (or preview) release or notify the developer. mahanga (talk) 00:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I added a paragraph on limitations to the page. The main issue right now appears .mov files. Also, I guess Indeo IV50 encoded files aren't supported. I read their wiki article and there's many issues involved. I just realized ffmpeg2theora will only convert files that w:ffmpeg is able to decode. If you go to that wiki page, you'll see only Indeo 2 and 3 (IV20, IV30) are supported, not Indeo 5 (IV50). I'll add this to the Limitations section. mahanga (talk) 00:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Replying to the 6 November question, I use VLC 1.0.1 Goldeneye, and the Combined-Community-Codec-Pack-2008-09-21.exe I have shows version "2008.09.21.0", last changed 29 March 2009(2009-03-29). I have added section Test videos below which shows a few of the problems I have found.

[edit] test.avi results

Test avi.ogv
Test.avi converted to Theora

There is a small video test file licensed with Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike at [3], and I managed to convert it to OGV format (see right).

Results attempting to play the original test.avi file:

ffmpeg2theora (both 0.25 and preview binary) FAILS with "swScaler: Unknown format is not supported as input pixel format"
VLC FAILS: it plays only the audio and reports: "VLC does not support the audio or video format "IV50". Unfortunately there is no way for you to fix this."
MPC plays it
ZOOM plays it
SUPER plays it
SMPlayer plays it
WinAmp plays it
Windows Media Player plays it
GOM plays it

My attempts at converting test.avi to OGV:

SUPER WORKED but only when I set Video Scale Size to 320x240 ("No change" gave ERROR)

-84user (talk) 16:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Update: After some more tests (see below) I suspect File:test avi.ogv may have an inherent audio sync problem (always out of sync on replay in Firefox and always out of sync at first play and replay in Google Chrome). This eight megabyte BBC test video played and replayed with good audio sync both in Firefox and Chrome (despite buggy replay in Chrome).

Results trying to play the File:Test avi.ogv and a BBC test video in a browser:

Browser thumb appearance? click play result? replay? plays uploaded file? replay uploaded file?
Firefox 3.5.5 thumbnail PASSES: plays Ok audio slightly out of sync PASSES audio slightly out of sync
Firefox 3.5.5 and BBC test thumbnail PASSES: plays Ok PASSES PASSES PASSES
Opera 9.63 thumbnail FAILS: disappears n/a FAILS:offers to download n/a
Opera 9.63 and BBC test thumbnail FAILS: disappears n/a FAILS:offers to download n/a
Opera 10.01 thumbnail FAILS: disappears n/a FAILS:offers to download n/a
Opera 10.01 and BBC test thumbnail FAILS: disappears n/a FAILS:offers to download n/a
Google Chrome 3.0.196.2 and test avi.ogv thumbnail HALF PASS: video Ok; AUDIO OUT OF SYNC BUGGY1 AUDIO OUT OF SYNC BUGGY1
Google Chrome 3.0.196.2 and BBC test thumbnail PASSES: video and audio Ok BUGGY2 FAILS:offers to download n/a
Google Chrome 3.0.195.32 and test avi.ogv thumbnail PASSES but BUGGY3 BUGGY3 PASSES! FREEZES and BUGGY3
Google Chrome 3.0.195.32 and BBC test thumbnail PASSES: video and audio Ok BUGGY2 PASSES! AUDIO OUT OF SYNC and BUGGY3

BUGGY1 in Google Chrome means audio always OUT of sync and: the play slider control does not work as expected; play button does not appear when video ends; dragging slider causes pause followed by colour defects followed by incorrect position and out of sync audio with good video; missing volume control - fixed to maximum; slider and context menu controls often contradict

BUGGY2 in Google Chrome means audio always IN sync but: the play slider control does not work as expected; play button does not appear when video ends; dragging slider causes long pause followed by colour defects followed by incorrect position but then correct audio and video; missing volume control - fixed to maximum; slider and context menu controls often contradict

BUGGY3 in Google Chrome 3.0.195.32 means sometimes VIDEO FREEZES on replay and audio is often OUT of sync: the play slider control does not work as expected; play button does not appear when video ends; dragging slider causes pause followed by colour defects followed by incorrect position but then correct video and often incorrect audio; missing volume control - fixed to maximum; slider and context menu controls often contradict

I just tried a fresh download of Google Chrome, but all I got was the same 3.0.196.2 with the same buggy OGG playback. I will now try to upgrade to the latest Opera version 10.01. -84user (talk) 14:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC) just added Opera 10.01 failure results to table just added Chrome 3.0.195.32 results to table

Now I just fully deinstalled Google Chrome and retried the Google installer. That gave me version 3.0.195.32 which has subtly different audio sync problems from 3.0.196.2. -84user (talk) 17:08, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Test playback of videos

Cal 2flip2click8khzvbr ifps25fr25 q6aq0.ogv
8 seconds of a pattern flipping each second accompanied by a sound click. This is File cal_2flip2click8khzvbr_ifps25fr25_q6aq0.ogv

Here are some test media I have uploaded with some test results. See Category:Calibration videos and Category:Calibration audio. Full details are at User:84user/Video tests. Results using VLC to convert AVI to OGV appear first, followed by a table of the test media and how a few players handle them. -84user (talk) 23:05, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] VLC Goldeneye results

VLC media player version 1.0.1 Goldeneye - encoding to Theora OGG video. How these videos were made is detailed in section "Calibration test videos" in User:84user/Video tests.

Source media VLC converts to OGG? VLC plays OGG? Firefox plays OGG? MPC plays OGG?
cal.avi VLC at 800kbps, noaudio YES* YES YES YES
cal.avi VLC at 1600kbps, noaudio YES* YES YES YES
cal.avi VLC at 3200kbps, noaudio YES* YES YES YES
cal_2flip2_click1in4track8secsmono22khz16bit8khzvbr.avi at 3200kbps YES* MISS1 YES STATIC
cal_2flip2_click1in4track8secsmono22khz16bit8khzvbr.avi at 800kbps sample rate 11250 YES* MISS1 YES STATIC
cal_2flip2click8khzvbr.avi YES* MISS1 YES YES

-84user (talk) 23:05, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Calibration test videos

This table shows how well or badly various media players performed with some OGV files.

test media Firefox Chrome MPlayer VLC VLC1.0.3 MPC
File:cal_ifps25fr25_q10.ogv YES YES YES NO NO NO
File:cal_4frames_ifps25fr25_q10.ogv YES YES YES NO NO NO
File:cal_2flip_ifps25fr25_q10.ogv YES GLITCH YES NO NO NO
File:vdubtestrgbcube4secs_ifps12fr12_q10.ogv YES YES YES YES YES NOKEYS?
File:Audacity click track one per second for eight seconds mono88khz32bitfloat.ogg YES YES YES CLICKS7 CLICKS7 CLICKS3
File:cal_2flip2click8khzvbr_ifps25fr25_q6aq0.ogv YES OUT OF SYNC OUT OF SYNC OUT OF SYNC* OUT OF SYNC* NO
File:cal_2flip2_click1in4track8secsmono22khz16bit8khzvbr_vlc3.ogv YES YES YES YES* CLICKS7 STATIC
File:cal_2flip2click8khzvbr_vlc.ogv YES FIRSTYES CLICKS9 CLICKS7 CLICKS7 YES
Cal16x16check vdnocnoafr1len2.avi.q10.ogv
File:Cal16x16check vdnocnoafr1len2.avi.q10.ogv		 YES2 YES3 NO not tested BLACK FLAT

-84user (talk) 23:05, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

YES2 means Firefox plays the file Ok but it plays upscaled videos using a filter that blurs edges, unlike Google Chrome which plays upscaled videos sharply;
YES3 means Google Chrome always plays the file sharply with no blur regardless of any upscaling, but the video gets cropped when any zoom is used (larger or smaller).
BLACK means VLC 1.0.3 played 2 seconds of black
FLAT means MPC displayed a rectangle with aspect ratio 2.66 (??) with a muddy blue green gradient followed by one second of pinkish grey blurry rectangles (abstract art?)
Firefox is version 3.5.5
Google Chrome is version 3.0.195.32;
MPC is Media Player Classic build 1.3.1249.0, complier VS 2008, FFmpeg compiler GCC 4.3.3
VLC is 1.0.1 Goldeneye;
VLC 1.0.3 was downloaded from http://www.videolan.org/mirror-geo.php?file=vlc/1.0.3/win32/vlc-1.0.3-win32.exe - the Windows self-extracting package
mplayer.exe dated 2006-10-28 is from SUPER 2009.build.36 and identifies itself with:
MPlayer 1.0rc1-3.4.2 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team.
CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+ (Family: 15, Model: 67, Stepping: 2)
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 1 3DNow2: 1 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
Compiled with runtime CPU detection.

(added VLC 1.0.3 results and program versions -84user (talk) 20:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC))(added results for File:Cal16x16check vdnocnoafr1len2.avi.q10.ogv -84user (talk) 03:03, 3 December 2009 (UTC))

A lot of this data would probably be very useful to the Theora developers, ffmpeg2theora project, and the Firefox, Chrome, VLC developers. I'll make a comment on the xiph mailing list. Could you provide version numbers on the applications (Firefox 3.5, Chrome, MPC)? Secondly, does VLC encode properly, compared to ffmpeg2theora? ffmpeg2theora seems to be the standard for encoding so we should try using that whenever we can. mahanga (talk) 17:15, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay before replying; I wanted to test VLC 1.0.3 first before adding more to this page. I have added version numbers above, they were listed in User:84user/Video tests.
Does VLC encode properly, compared to ffmpeg2theora? Sometimes. I remember VLC producing OGV output with wrongly coloured initial frames, and when I now use VLC 1.0.3 to convert the large NASA movie here the output again has the first two or three seconds wrong. Other programs converted that movie correctly (SUPER and ffmpeg2theora for example). See File:Saturn ring spokes (captured by Cassini).ogv for a selection of ffmpeg2theora conversions. But VLC also converts some correctly: I have just now tested it converting low frame rate test AVI videos generated by VirtualDub 1.93 and the outputs are Ok. It still cannot handle the video codec used in the test.avi file that both SUPER and ffmpeg2theora can, see File:Test avi 64kbps video 32kbps audio.ogv. If there was a freely licensed suite of test videos (I found a very large Microsoft suite but with a restricted license) we could do more tests. -84user (talk) 20:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
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