Talk:BSicon/Colors/Archive 1

Other colors

I understand that the red set is for standard rail and the blue set is for rapid transit, but what are these new color sets for? (black, green, orange, purple, the multicolored Tokyo Set) Samhuddy (talk) 02:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Using only red or blue colors in templates of metro lines in cities, where lines are always marked with color, isn't good - users say, that such templates are bad. For example, in Saint Petersburg they always mark 1st line with red color, 2nd - with blue color, 3d - with green color, 4th - with orange color, 5th - with violet color and so on. Passengers know, which color corresponds to appopriate line. So we have to make a sets of different colors to solve this problem, because common template doesn't allow to choose a color of line. Dinamik (talk) 19:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

In the first place, these icons have been created for a different reason. Their purpose was to symbolize stations, junctions and other structure of "heavy" railway tracks (later set blue was created for light rail and metro). But the usage of these icons widened up (much more then the initial intention) and by the time there are very complex track fields etc. made of railway line icons. A new kind of usage are varicolored metro line descriptions or even metro maps. --$traight-$hoota (talk) 16:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that, a couple years later, we can summarize it like this: While the two regular sets, with their huge number of icons, ready to illustrate any concievable need, are used to build detailed diagrams of railways, the other color icons, while sharing naming conventions, are used only in much simpler diagrams of services (which coincide with lines only in the simplest systems), needing typically only icons for stations and a few straights, with any additional icon being an oddity. (Examples of this contrasting diagram building: MTS lines vs. MTS network) The system however allows such oddities to be created and offers a simple way to name them (adding the color name to the equivalent red or blue icon). This approach seems to working well, and it is only its details that need to be worked out. -- Tuválkin ✉ 05:40, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Old discussion

Moved from Category talk:Icons for railway descriptions/other colors. (Seems that all points has been covered meanwhile in the discussion above, but still, here for reference.)

It has been suggested that the BS icon hex value color sets be replaced with ones using "natural" names. This table displays each of the colors in use, alongside the closest named HTML color. (Some are much closer than others, and two sets— FFFF00  and  A9A9AA —are exact matches.) The last column lists a possible two-letter mnemonic for each color. Note that perception of color is not only very subjective, but also varies from monitor to monitor. Useddenim (talk) 12:37, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Set color	Closest HTML named color		Mn.
Blue
0256A4	RoyalBlue	4169e1	RB
1A8BB9	SteelBlue	4682b4	SB
339999	DarkCyan	008b8b	DC
3399FF	DodgerBlue	1e90ff	DB
029EE0
9999FF	LightSlateBlue	8470ff	LS
99CCFF	LightSkyBlue	87cefa	LB
Brown/red/yellow
71592E	Maroon	800000	MN
CC6600	Chocolate	d2691e	CH
EF161E	Red	ff0000	RD
FFAB2E	Orange	ffa500	OR
FFFF00	Yellow	ffff00	YL
Green
029B52	SeaGreen	2e8b57	SG
99CC00	YellowGreen	9acd32	YG
B3D52E
34C924	LimeGreen	32cd32	LG
B4EEB4	PaleGreen	98fb98	PG
Gray
999999	Gray	808080	GR
A9A9AA	DarkGray	a9a9aa	DG
C0C0C0	Silver	c71585	SI
Purple/violet
B5198D	MediumVioletRed	c71585	VR

Close colours

Moved from Talk:BSicon/Obsolete and deletions#Close colours.

I am aware that "the human eye can distinguish about 10 million different colors", but I really doubt that we need as many colour sets for BSicons. Consider light blues, greys and light greens below. There are other pairs of close colours (and even triplets), but more readily distinguishable, so I'll leave them to please the aesthetics of different users. Besides, the RGB codes may be possibly assigned officially in other countries, who knows... In case of 999999/A9A9AA, 3399FF/029EE0 and 99CC00/B3D52E, the first set in a pair is always more developed that the other, while the second is only used for Moscow Metro lines (Serpukhovsko-Timiryazevskaya, Filyovskaya and Lyublinskaya respectively) in non-Russian Wikipedias (French and Spanish generally). Ru:wp uses the former colour sets, and as far as I know there are no official RGB codes for Moscow Metro. So, unless anybody opposes, I will replace all uses of icons from A9A9AA, 029EE0 and 99CC00 sets and nominate them for deletion. YLSS (talk) 20:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

There are several sensible reasons against keeping and mantaining sets of close color icons — not only because they cannot be used in the same diagram (where contrast is paramount), but also that a less attentive editor might mix and match from these sets to create or edit diagrams which are “good enough” with almost identical color shades, instead of exact matches. This goes against the very modularity and clearness having diagrams made from standartized building blocks is all about, after all. (However, discussions about colors should be covered in Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness, not here.) -- Tuválkin ✉ 00:13, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Blues

moved from Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests#PNGs inside SVGs

Anyway,   (KBHFa 0065BD) seems to be yet another shade of blue and hard to tell apart from   (uKBHFa BlnU8). These additions seem to be frivolous — I’d have these two as duplicates and assimilated into the other BlnU8 icons. -- Tuválkin ✉ 03:54, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I just noticed that, while the original uploader labelled these two as "0065BD", s/he had painted them in RGB:0078BE instead, which is closest to the single icon for the Mita line roundels in the icon set. Compare:

 (TokyoMita) →  (lDST blue)

  (CPICma 0065BD) →  (CPICma blue)

  (KBHFa 0065BD) →  (KBHFa blue)

The whole thing is an unredeemable mess. Unless someone says no, I'll recolor and rename these two as Mita-color icons and later one have them integrated in any of the blue sets. -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:42, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done -- Tuválkin ✉ 12:19, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I would say that we need three or four shades of darker blue:

1. 003399 - the "u" set. My bold proposal would be to rename respective categories to something other than "set blue". Maybe "U-Bahn", "light rail", "navy" or just "dark blue"? 'Cause I would reserve simple "blue" for some other set, for the ease of naming them.
2. Something around 0256A4 or 00619F - present set 0256A4 and BlnU8. If I understand Туча right, this would get a wider usage after Moscow line 3 is repainted with it. This could be plain "blue" or possibly "indigo".
3. 1A8BB9 - set 0256A4, which is used for Moscow line 11, but may give way to 339999 (I'll discuss this at ru.wp; if not merged, this set could be renamed "cerulean", although I'm afraid of such long names.)
4. Possibly a fourth is needed for 0078BE & 0079C2. If implemented, this one could be plain "blue".

-- YLSS (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I like that bold proposal ;-) I suggest "set u", cannot be simpler than that. ("U-Bahn" and "light rail" are not good because these icons are also used for canals.) -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Here’s the existing blues — there are lot of them and hard to coalesce in clearly insular clusters. I agree that three, even four, are possible/necessary between u-blue and the already established set azure. At least 2 are mandatory, to tell apart Berlin’s U8 and U7, and Tokyo’s Mita and Tozai. (Of course one of these could be u-Blue and/or Azure, reducing this need to one single additional shade of blue, or even to zero…) Here's those blues, updated from above: -- Tuválkin ✉ 09:16, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

			File:BSicon KDSTr blue.svg		File:BSicon KDSTr cerulean.svg
u-Blue many	set 0256A4 21 icons	BlnU8 15 icons	set 0078BE 9 icons	Mita 3 icons	set 1A8BB9 40 icons	BlnU7 10 icons	Tozai 1 icons	set azure 53 icons
u-Blue	denim		blue		cerulean	sky		Azure
003399	0252A4	00619F	0078BE	0079C2	1A8BB9	069DD3	00A7DB	3399FF
6482C0	6597C6	649EC3	64ACD6	64ACD8	73B7D3	67C2E3	64C8E7	99CCFF
	0695FF	—	—	—	85BBE0	—	—

1. ∪ set 0256A4 (0252A2) + BlnU8 (00619F)
2. ∪ set 0078BE (0078BE) + Mita (0079C2)
3. ∪ BlnU7 (069DD3) + Tozal (00A7DB)

Useddenim (talk) 12:42, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree and seems we have a consensus on the clustering. I reflected this in the table above, with provisional names going from “Blue I” to “Blue IV”. However the final exact shade and the names need to be decided too. Concerning the former, I'm sure we all agree that these 4 colors should be maximally different among themselves and from either u-Blue and Azure. As for the latter so far we have more or less agreed that the word "blue" (used only in the u-blue categories, not filenames) will be available and is to be use — this means 3 new names. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I think "cerulean" is a fine name for any of the sets (after all, we used "vert"). Circeus (talk) 06:37, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

BTW, I have second thoughts about "cerulean"... If we use it, and since we already have "fuchsia", "saffron" & "lavender", I have a strange desire to rename "red" as "vermilion", "jade" as "celadon" and "teal" as "viridian". Pity that "cinnabar" and "pewter" aren't used as colour names - although we can be the first ones to do so. What a beautiful Pallet we would then have! ;) YLSS (talk) 05:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

“Blue I”

• I think we should keep the Berlin shade, as it is hazy and smokey and most distinct fron u-blue, even iff not less dark. Set 0256A4 has 21 icons but 9 of them need to be changed anyway, because they have an unacceptable ex-shade, so there’s not too much extra work for this.  Done
• As for the name, "indigo" was suggested. While it is not very close to actual indigo, it is a well known color name, more than "cerulean" or even "cobalt" (see name matches).

-- Tuválkin ✉ 02:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually, indigo's purpleness is artificial given that traditionally it was much more blue. Since that this particular shade looks very much like the color of jeans (which were indeed traditional dyed with indigo), I think "denim" is a usable name if we choose to eschew Indigo as being "too purple". Circeus (talk) 00:44, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

So what does that make exICON_denim? Useddenim (talk) 01:04, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Why, that’s you! -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:05, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Denim sounds cool and appropriate. — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 16:31, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

"Denim"  implemented. -- Tuválkin ✉ 12:46, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

And the Category:Icons for railway descriptions/Berlin U-Bahn is now history. Well done! — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 07:00, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

And there’s also sapphire… Too bad we seem to have a handful of names for “Blue I” and none so far for #“Blue III”… -- Tuválkin ✉ 00:55, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

“Blue II”

OneTwoThreeTwo more: a singleton   (KBHFr 00A0DD) and set 0078BE, in which most icons are named 0077BE and some 0078BE but all have 0078BE in SVG code, partly uploaded to Commons and partly to ru.wp (pls do not move or reload them until those at ru.wp are deleted). YLSS (talk) 16:28, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I will keep off till you say go, promised! -- Tuválkin ✉ 20:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

• These are so close that joining three Mita icons into nine 0078BEs is a nobrainer. They stand out well between I and II, too, and are more or less in line, and halfway, with u-blue and azure.
• Both these RGBs are closest to something called “true blue” — maybe call it simply "blue", then, as YLSS suggested above.

-- Tuválkin ✉ 02:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

 Recolored, renamed, and moved to "set 0078BE" while set blue is still used for something else. KBHFa was common to both sets, so the least used was deleted, its much better code used in the other. -- Tuválkin ✉ 09:37, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't think the name "blue" can be used for any of the new colours, as the set blue contains all the original u-icons. Related is the mismatch between the shades of blue in the table at {{BS-color}} and the category to which the link under the word "blue" points. So, it's either the colour "blue" is dropped altogether (or just serves as a redirect to u-icons), or the set blue category gets renamed to set u, akin to Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set f, but the latter miiight require some wider consensus. I personally would be in favour of the former. — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 08:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, that was our with Tuválkin intention (the latter, that is). We now have fully fleshed-out set red & set green, distinct from "klassisch Rot" & "klassisch Grün", so it would be only appropriate to have a set blue as well. YLSS (talk) 08:56, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

“Blue III”

• This one is slightly tealish and very pastel, still quite different from teal. Being a single set, nothing to change in the main color, but the ex-shade needs to be fixed?
• closest English color name is bondi blue — we need to come up with something better.

-- Tuválkin ✉ 02:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Let me suggest the color name "glaucous". While the exact rgb value given, 6082B6, is distant from 1A8BB9 (70.640), the hue angle is close enough (197° ≅ 216°) to this to be acceptable, as this color name is notoriously generic. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:07, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Quite an obscure word (for me, as a non-native speaker). YLSS (talk) 05:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I think we’re mostly non-native speakers here. "Glaucous" is also hard on the spelling, but quite accurate on the naming, that’s why I propose it. -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:32, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

If we stick to having one set called blue, we only need to come up with one otehr word to have the problem fixed. I think "sapphire" is a lot more flexible then we give credit to it. I'm also not sure ultramarine or "steel" are entirely out of the picture either. If we use "sky", what about "water"? Circeus (talk) 16:09, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

"Water" reminds of "aqua", and that's a very light cyan. But of course water can take many colors. My only problem is how it could be mixed up with  (WASSER). :-\ -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:51, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

(I have some intentions on using "steel" for another colour, even though they may not come to life... YLSS (talk) 18:35, 5 April 2013 (UTC))

Would this set benefit if we tinge it a little bit towards green, without bringing it close to "teal"? YLSS (talk) 18:35, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Maybe, why not? It is now unused and independent from mergings, so, if the result is make it more distinct from anyone else, I’d say go ahead. -- Tuválkin ✉ 20:25, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Satisfied myself with recolouring ex with 73B7D3, its proper opacity=0.6 and greener. YLSS (talk) 21:11, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I note that this was meanwhile renamed to "cerulean" — well, not the best of choices, considering that this seem to be an etymological equivalent of "sky" and ite spelling is anything but simple. However, and since the colorimentric defintion seems to be that anything goes, well… Why not, really? -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:35, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, having boiled in my brains for a months, "cerulean" wore down and now I think of it as an appropriate name. At least it is an established colour-word that I've encountered several times, and being the most blue of cyans and one of the most green of blues, it suits perfectly. YLSS (talk) 19:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

“Blue IV”

• Berlin 10:1 Tokyo here no doubts here. THe RGBs are very close, again, and distinct from the neighbours.
• The name "robin egg" (or "robin"?) begs for a better idea.

-- Tuválkin ✉ 02:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I wanted to propose deleting BlnU7 as near duplicates of "azure", but if you want to keep them... YLSS (talk) 18:55, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

It was your idea («we need three or four shades of darker blue»), even if immediately supported by me. :-) This is a shade of blue that is close enough to azure only in brightness and saturation, but not in hue. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:43, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I meant three or four including "u-blue" (the list is numbered), but do as you like, sharp eye! ;). YLSS (talk) 13:03, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I’m sorry, I was mistaken: It was Useddenim’s idea, rather, (at 12:42, 24 March) to join alsmot identical parts to form what’s now I, II, and IV, leaving III unchanged. Oh, well, song sung blue — everybody has one… :-) -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:18, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Could "sky" be a reasonably simple name? Circeus (talk) 06:37, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

"Sky" is a good name for a variety of shades of blue hues (regardless of its specific meaning), so it is a very good suggestion, perfect for any shade which cannot be covered by a more specific name. -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

"Sky" IMO can only be applied to this one, if any - others are too dark. YLSS (talk) 18:55, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Formerly existing icons of set 029EE0 (16 of them) and the lone 00A0DD must be undeleted to be added to this set. Even though their usage was replaced, even though they are probably duplicates of the Berlin ones: They need to be assessed and then (some) deleted as dupes or equivalents. -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:58, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Don't you think that you overdo sometimes?.. 1) If you really need it, you can undelete   (CPICla 029EE0),   (CPICr 029EE0),   (CPICre 029EE0),   (ABZrg 029EE0),   (KDSTr 029EE0),   (exBHF 029EE0),   (KBHFxa 029EE0),   (KBHFe 029EE0),   (exKBHFa 029EE0),   (KBHFa 029EE0),   (TUNNELa 029EE0) &   (WBRÜCKE 029EE0), BHF, STR & STRrf are already in BlnU7. 2) 00A0DD is   (KBHFr azure) now. YLSS (talk) 18:55, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

We’re dedicating ourselves to organizing a minor subset of repository of diagram elements which are one of a myriad of elements that make up a free online encyclopedia. Overdoing? Yes (we all are), and proudly so! ;-) Reviving those icons is better than just uploading new ones because of file history. Too bad about 00A0DD, but no sleep lost over it now. Thanks for putting out the 029EE0 filenames! -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:43, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

All  Done. -- Tuválkin ✉ 08:17, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Light blues

ENDEa 3399FF	ROOT 029EE0

(see #Close colours above for reasons)

Nobody opposes using "azure" as the target name for this one? YLSS (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Great name. It is close enough to “True Blue” (not a great name), shown at en:Azure (color)#True Blue. -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

 Renamed. YLSS (talk) 14:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Cyan

I've moved from ru.wp five icons of pure cyan shade (#00FFFF), and together with those from #RizhMZD they make up quite a full set. This colour is actually quite different from all light blues that we have, and what's more important, it is a major web colour. So, on second thoughts, I guess we should give this set a chance. However, all former RizhMZD icons should be re-painted from current 67f8ff (or vice versa?), and I don't know what to do with multicolored icons. YLSS (talk) 18:46, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I should say that saturated spectral colors such as                are an eye sore and most major wikipedias have recomendations against them in their style manuals (e.g.: en:WP:COLOR and en:Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Color ^{-- Tuválkin ✉ 17:00, 21 March 2013 (UTC)}). While I agree that cyan is an important color and that these icons should be integrated, not discarded, I’d suggest something less eye-searing (and more likely to be useful), such as Tiffany Blue or turquoise… -- Tuválkin ✉ 03:35, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Most likely you are right. I just assigned a good name to it. YLSS (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I renamed & moved the remaining RizhMZDs to set cyan. Tuválkin, could you please choose some colour (and ex) and repaint them? I guess you have a better eye for this ;) I can only note that Tiffany Blue is nearly identical to ex_teal. I didn't repaint anything, but renamed with an assumption that black segments should become ex_cyan (BTW, the original uploader actually applied opacity=0.62 to them at first), while those with blue segments can fill up for "eBHF" etc. since plain BHFs already exist from the other set. YLSS (talk) 22:30, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I can take care of these babies (still need to finish the ochres, though). You’re right about the proximity of our ex-cyan with Tiffany blue, so lets go with turquoise = 40E0D0, then? Its ex-value is 8AEAE1, b.t.w. -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:24, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done-- Tuválkin ✉ 08:21, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! (8AEAE1 seems to offer little contrast with 40E0D0, but... oh, to the hell with that set!) YLSS (talk) 08:38, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Yellows

Also noticed that yellow  ffd702  and Berlin U4  fffd403  are indistinguishable from each other. Another candidate for combining. Useddenim (talk) 10:54, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

If I understand the matters right, BSicons that use the colour FFD702 were for some time uploaded both as "BSicon XXX yellow" and "BSicon XXX FFD702", with the former pattern gradually replacing the latter (I finalized a couple of instances). So that's settled. The "ex" subset was also uploaded both as "BSicon exXXX yellow" and "BSicon exXXX FFD702"; however, the colours used were different: FFEB81 and FFF3A9 respectively. "Ex yellow"/FFEB81 likewise supplanted "ex FFD702"/FFF3A9; I finalized several instances, and created Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set FFF3A9. All icons in it are currently unused and have near-duplicates in parent categories, so I guess they should be deleted. Any objections? YLSS (talk) 17:30, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Don't forget Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set yellow and Category:Icons for railway descriptions/Berlin U-Bahn, which (on my monitors, at least) are virtually indistinguishable:

yellow (FFD702)	u/BlnU4 (FFD403)	yellow+red

See also Category:Icons for railway descriptions/other colors. Useddenim (talk) 01:30, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm not really aware of the purpose of Berlin U-Bahn set, so, for my part, I'll leave it alone. YLSS (talk) 18:13, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

The Moscow, Tokyo, and Berlin sets are joined in separate special categories, but there’s no reason to treat them separately — they could be (and some already are) used in other projects, and would gain from stranadrtized treatment. -- Tuválkin ✉ 03:23, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I see the prehistory now. Well, there's no separate category for Moscow Metro now, and I don't have enough authority to mess with Tokyo and Berlin systems. YLSS (talk) 14:43, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I just reüploaded the eight Berlin U4 icons changed to FFD702 yellow. However, except for   (uENDEl BlnU4), all of them already have same shape equivalents in the yellow set, meaning they will be deleted as dupes (or converted to redirects, if we’re having those). Before that happens, is should be verified for each icon wheather the privliged duplicate has better codr, and if not it should be replaced with the to-be-discarded one’s. That seems to be the case of   (uKBHFe BlnU4) versus  (KBHFe yellow) -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:34, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done. -- Tuválkin ✉ 21:27, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Yellow+red

Added yellow+red. Apparently remains of the olden days, created in 2010 by a user now indefinitely blocked, used in a single template. Together with C0C0C0 above can be replaced by regular sets. YLSS (talk) 18:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I think this was an attempt at emphasising the edges of paler colors, and a pretty much borked attempt, at that. Also, I could not find any use for these files, and AndreyA seems to be not banned. Either way, I agree that these icons must go. -- Tuválkin ✉ 05:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

That's because I already replaced all of them. Only ru:Шаблон:Маршрут 1A (Брюссель) employed them, but I don't know what for: Line 1 of Brussels Metro is purple, but the template represented part of Line 6 (blue) and part of Line 5 (dark yellow) as "Line 1A". So I switched it to the generic blues. AndreyA is banned from ru:wp. YLSS (talk) 05:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Some of the yellow+red set, the tunnel ones, can be fixed to be used in the yellow set. The rest can be safely tagged for deletion. -- Tuválkin ✉ 20:53, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Almost done. The names, with "yellow+red", will be changed to simple "yellow". -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done. -- Tuválkin ✉ 21:27, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

ex-Yellows

Some ex-yellow ideas:

• The current ex-yellow value is FFEB81, and does offer better contrast than the 60%-opacity value FDE565; by keeping it, we also avoid reuploading 27 icons.
• Thanks to YLSS’s report below, we are reminded that Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set FFF3A9 can be fully replaced as the ex-version of regular yellow icons. I’ll be marking them for speedy deletion.
• Likewise,   (HBHF jaune) can be slightly recolored to RGB:FFEB81 and renamed  (exBHFq_yellow).

-- Tuválkin ✉ 16:30, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

All  Done. -- Tuválkin ✉ 17:24, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Reds

Marunouchi E60012 1 icon	MosMetro 1 FF0000 7 icons	set EF161E EF161E 27 icons

This seems to be a straightfoward case, as there are only two bright red icon “sets” (one of them with the grand total of 1 icon). Bright red is probably never be a popular set, as there’s the huge set of regular icons (in dark red) to draw from when ilustrating any system’s Red Line (see example). (It is also the same generic color as the  (POINTERr) icon family and the Spanish and Danish SBHF logos.) Two matters need to be adressed:

• The "ex" color in set EF161E, affecting only one icon   (KBHFxe EF161E), which is the same as the standard icons’ ex color, and should not be. I went ahead and fixed it, as it had only one use, and created a new   (exKBHFe EF161E) to match (before it used a regular  (exKBHFe) shade of red). I don't like to do stuff without consensus, but this was unmessy and simple, unlike others.
• Which RGB value to chose for the definitive version, wheather EF161E or E60012. Maybe the Tokyo color looks prettier and maybe it does match some official spec, unlike EF161E?

-- Tuválkin ✉ 21:06, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I got this reply from the uploader of the Tokyo icon set: In short, there’s no need to strictly adhere to these exact RGBs. It is therefore simpler to change one icon to match 15 other icons than the opposite. Since the "ex" matter is fixed and the color name is uncontroversial ("red"), this set could be the 1st to be fully fixed, as soon as there is agreement about brackets vs. space in the filenames. -- Tuválkin ✉ 12:42, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

The newly added 7 icons including FF0000 red from the poorly designed (and poorly named, and poorly coded, and thankfully barely used) #RizhMZD set do not rock this boat. Mimimal changes concerining the shade of red upon recoloring them to EF161E, especially since they are used only in abandoned user pages. -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:13, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Light greens

KBHFxe 99CC00	ROOT B3D52E

(see #Close colours above for reasons)

Wow, I've just uncovered a devious, cunning and deeply-rooted plot to Slavicize Wikimedia, I even have regrets undoing it. Half of icons in 99CC00 set are actually named not "99CC00", but "99СС00". If you don't get the difference, the latter has Cyrillic letter С (es, corresponding to Latin S) instead of Latin C. What a beautiful fishing practice... YLSS (talk) 21:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Тһаԏ’ѕ аԝѕоте! (By the way: This section should be split into Greys, Light Blues, and Light Greens. Can you do it?) -- Tuválkin ✉ 21:44, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Nobody opposes using "lime" for this one? "Apple green" or "yellow-green" seem closer, but "lime" is shorter, commoner and is broader in meaning. YLSS (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Lime green is closest to 2DBE2C, but lime is BFFF00, so I guess it is a good idea. -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

 Renamed. YLSS (talk) 14:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Shinjuku & BlnU1

File:BSicon exKDSTr green.svg
7FD77E	6CBB5A	53B147

I’m thinking — maybe ex-vert (7FD77E) is close enough to Shinjuku (6CBB5A)? -- Tuválkin ✉ 21:25, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Meh, bad idea, per se. Whatever happens to Shinjuku’s RGB, it will be deal with in parallel with Berlin U1 (53B147). Should that be relabelled and recolored as ex-vert (7FD77E)? Maybe, we need to think. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

(This pair seems to be the last one undecided...) Since we now have so many blues and so many purples, and since on the other hand the human eye is most sensitive to greens, I suppose 53B147 can be kept. The name: grass, fern, forest?.. Not mantis, save me... YLSS (talk) 14:01, 2 April 2013 (UTC) Or while no verts have been renamed yet... Maybe 53B147=green and 2DBE2C=leaf? YLSS (talk) 15:07, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I’m not so hot about "leaf". I think that we either go for more or less accepted color names (even unusual ones, like saffron) or, if we go for whimsical names, we should stick to their (necessarily narrow) use, by calculating the nearest neighbor to those listed in en:Category:Shades of color templates. And "leaf", surprisingly, is not even a recognized color name, even among the many weird names listed at en:Variations_of_green.

There is a green shade name, though, that’s suitable for a more or less wide range of light greens, and whose exact definition in the lists above is not too far from 2DBE2C — is Emerald. I suggest that instead of leaf, leaving 53B147=green. -- Tuválkin ✉ 17:06, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I considered that one, but somehow I visualise "emerald" to be ideally appropriate for ug/g set. And those mineral-named colours tend to be not very bright, so IMO they would rather suit 53B147... What about "jade"? YLSS (talk) 19:37, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking of exactly the same on my way back here after dinner, what a coincidence! Furthermore emerald is said to be slightly blueish, while jade is milkish. It is perfect for the combination of Shinjuku and U1. -- Tuválkin ✉ 01:43, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

On the other hand, I was thinking too that, while 1<<15, the shade of green of U1 is much closer to “vert” than Shinjuku is. Wouldn’t we be better served with a more distinct color value, even with the added toil of recoloring a 14 icons more? -- Tuválkin ✉ 01:43, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I also though about that ;) However, wouldn't 6CBB5A be too close to fex=64B164? Well, BlnUs are your sphere of influence, so it's up to you ;) YLSS (talk) 06:50, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

No influence spheres here, I think, as the whole idea was to join all these disparate incon set and harmonize it. As for Shinjuku (6CBB5A) ≅ fex (64B164), well, I never noticed it, but you’re obviously right and their distance (16,248) is smaller than between U1 (53B147) and vert (2DBE2C) (48,394). So, seems that the singleton  (TokyoShinjuku) can be renamed  (fexlDST) and the rest (U1) left unchanged. -- Tuválkin ✉ 12:17, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Vert & B4EEB4

B4EEB4	ex_vert	vert

This extremely faint set could be tinted up to match some other colour's ex. (AFAIK, it was created only to represent a proposed line of Novosibirsk Metro that has since been reassigned some magenta colour and is represented by plain Bahn ex's at ru.wp.) Since it has balanced red and blue components, I guess ex_vert would be most appropriate? BTW, after current greens finally become the "f"-set, maybe verts should be renamed "green" as the most brilliantly green shade? "Lime", IMO, better suits 99CC00 above. YLSS (talk) 15:05, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Just like about "u"-blue above, I agee. The categories could be renamed "set f" and "set g", and relese the name "green" for this bighter color. -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

• recoloring  Done
• renaming of icons  Done -- Tuválkin ✉ 21:09, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
• renaming of category  Done -- Tuválkin ✉ 21:09, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

-- Tuválkin ✉ 03:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Bummer, I overlooked the table above and recolored using the 60% opacity. Then I had to recolor the three already existing almost-match ex-verts. Oh well. -- Tuválkin ✉ 05:04, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

(How ironic... Once I had "exLSTRq green" renamed to   (exLUECKEq vert) - 'cause the colour was ex_vert, not ex_green, and there were no LSTR's de facto at that moment. The redirect remained and now, thanks to Tuválkin, it showed up in its soon-to-be-proper place. And the file will have to be moved back soon. YLSS (talk) 20:20, 22 March 2013 (UTC))

But  (fLSTRq) is correctly colored, what’s the trouble?… And both files’ global use seems to be okay… -- Tuválkin ✉ 05:41, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

No, no trouble at all, just irony (with exLSTR). YLSS (talk) 10:33, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Set 34C924

Are these (    ) supposed to be full width (nominal 500×500px) or half width? -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:29, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Also set D1E231 (    ). Do we fix them, or wait for User 699 (talk · contribs) to fall flat on his face when he tries to creat an RDT? Useddenim (talk) 00:22, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, it works as long as no curves or forks are needed. These should be fixed, anyway, or maybe conflated with any of the existing “other colors”. -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:10, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Fixing  Done. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:31, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

FYI: After conversation with the original uploader, deleted all 34c924's and D1E231's. YLSS (talk) 18:49, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, that’s not good at all. The original uploader doesn’t own the files. I had worked on those icons, they could be useful, maybe merged into similar colors. For one thing, they had good SVG, what's not what can be said of most these color icons we’re planning on renaming now. -- Tuválkin ✉ 07:26, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I asked User:Túrelio to revive these, as they can be salvaged:

•   (exABZlg d1e231) and   (exSTR D1E231): These are CBCF4E, and are marked as the ex version of D1E231, which doesn’t add up (ex should be lighter and whitier). They are very close to the ex versions of set 99CC00, and, while   (exSTR 99CC00) already exists,   (exABZlg d1e231) can be slightly recolored and added to this set.  Done
•   (KBHFa D1E231) is accurately named, however. It is similar enough to  (TokyoYurakucho) but also to the B3D52E set:   (KBHFa B3D52E).  Done but see below.
•   (exSTR 66CC00), as mentioned above, the name is wrong, as it is really colored 66CC00, so no reason for "ex". It is closest to   (STR vert) and can be safely killed off as its duplicate.  Done
•   (KBHFa 34c924) is very close to the vert set, too, where a   (KBHFa vert) exists, but with wrong geometry — this can replace it; upon renaming, this will be seamless.  Done

-- Tuválkin ✉ 09:50, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Golden

Turns out that   (KBHFa D1E231) (see above) was accurately named (i.e., icon color matching the RGB in the filename) only because I made it so when I replaced the original messed up SVG, assuming that the filename was accurate. As it was, the original color was CBCF4E, which is even closer to  (TokyoYurakucho) than before (vectorial RGB discance: 17.720; both have en:old gold as closest named color shade), and therefore can be dully merged. This color set has now two six^{(-- Tuválkin ✉ 12:22, 2 April 2013 (UTC))} icons — maybe it will never need more, but at least it is integrated in a logical system.  Done -- Tuválkin ✉ 14:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I named this "golden" — not "gold" because that color name is closest to our yellow, and instead of its closest "old gold" to avoid a two-word colorname. -- Tuválkin ✉ 01:02, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Teals

KBHFa 339999 (339999) 31 icons	uhKBHFa SMT (009090) 4 icons	uBHF BlnU3 (14A796) 10 icons	Namboku (BB641D) 1 icon

Also these two four. -- Tuválkin ✉ 07:00, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Or is there a need for two shades of medium teal? -- Tuválkin ✉ 11:04, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Medium teal, yes, because light teal is acqua(marine) / tuquoise, and dark teal is petrel blue… ;-) -- Tuválkin ✉ 13:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

(I mean petrol, not petrel, but apparently neither is used in English: The former exists in French and the latter exists only in its recyprocal form. But we digress.) -- Tuválkin ✉ 17:56, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, lets merge these four? I suggest the name "teal" — wich is short, single worded, well known, and adequate (even though these match more closely to the more narrowly defined jungle green and persian green), and I also suggest that we keep 339999 — because it means less icons will be affected and is easier to memorize when creating icons manually. Opinions? -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Totally agree, but let's wait for others' opinions. YLSS (talk) 20:40, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

As already said above, ten ex339999 are actually 3399FF and IMO should be just renamed as such, after analizing their considering their usage, as well (and even more carefully) four e/x icopns which include both 339999 and 3399FF. These latter could be, depending on their use, either transformed into special two-color icons (like ) or recolored to match its proper ex color shade: 82C0C0. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, they are actually named 3399FF, I made sure of it some time ago. Those are redirects from old pre-move titles that you see in 339999 category, plus three duplicate files that were tagged as such by me two weeks ago (when will they get deleted?), plus four XXXxa/xXXXa's, which can be either recolored or deleted altogether as unused. YLSS (talk) 20:38, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Unused redirects should be deleted, in principle. If those four are unused, better recolor them to 82C0C0, IMO. -- Tuválkin ✉ 21:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Browns

And another candidate for merging:

BHF brown (8D5B2D) 6 icons	BHF 71592E (71592E) 17 icons	uBHF BlnU5 (825A42) 4 icons	Fukutoshin (BB641D) see below

They aren't as close as the others, but they're not that far apart, either. Useddenim (talk) 21:43, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I think RGB:71592E is a better choice for unification, too, as RGB:71592E seems to dark and hard to tell apart from black. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree they should be merged. But which one to which one? 71592E is used in many Wikipedias, but only for Moscow metro line (ru:Шаблон:Кольцевая линия (Москва)); "brown" is only used in ru:wp for a planned line of Saint Petersburg metro (ru:Шаблон:Красносельско-Калининская линия). The colour used for the Moscow line in the official scheme is somewhere between 71592E and brown/8D5B2D. (I guess I'd better drop a note at ru:wp as well.) YLSS (talk) 14:55, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The 1st step of this kind of merging is to recolor the different sets so they all have the same exact shade (even if the RGB in the filenames will be unaccurate). That, unlike, moving/renaming, doesn’t affect the articles/diagrams using the icons (only visually, and not much). Is is something simple, and 100% centralized here in Commons. And it is not a hard job, as in the worst case we’d be looking at reuploading 23 icons: No big deal. -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:50, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Please note that, as mentioned somewhere else, we do have not two but fourthree brown icon sets: U5, Fukutoshin, 71592E, and brown. I added the two missing ones above. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Ochre+Tawny?

File:BSicon KDSTr ochre.svg
Ochre	Tawny

I think two different browns are necessary. I thought a lighter shade, as the Tokyo roundel, could use the "ex" version of a darker one, but the ex-brown shades are all too greyish. Or maybe CC6600 could fill the role or a lighter brown? Here’s → how they compare. Lets merge these two? -- Tuválkin ✉ 11:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I suggest "ochre" for the name, even though 44 icons are closer to tawny and only 1 is closer to ochre. Opinions? -- Tuválkin ✉ 11:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Okay, since nobody disagrees, I’ll recolor  (TokyoFukutoshin) to CC6600. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:46, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done — and see below for the proposed renaming. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:02, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Oranges

Even with CC6600 out of the way, classified as ochre, we still have sixseven different shades of orange to be sorted out. They must to be integrated as at least two final shades, and not into a single shade of orange, because two of these six are part of the Berlin set (U9 and U2) and they obviously need to be kept distinct, even if they get tweaked in their exact RGB. -- Tuválkin ✉ 00:55, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

BHF FFAB2E (FFAB2E) 19 icons	— (FFA500) 3 icons	moscow6 (F09E36) 31 icons	Ginza (F39700) 1 icon	uBHF BlnU9 (EB851C) 9 icons	BHF orange (FF6600) 123 icons	uBHF BlnU2 (F25821) 14 icons

• I’m sure nobody disagrees with unifying FFA500 with FFAB2E, right?
• Unifying F25821 into FF6600 is less straightforward but still the way to go.
• As for EB851C and F39700, while much less similar, the only sensible thing is to assimilate them as part of the FFAB2E set, too.

Any alternative suggestions? -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:06, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Seems that YLSS likes the color name "saffron". Alright, let’s go! -- Tuválkin ✉ 19:40, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

'Twas your suggestion! Indeed I spent some time inquiring whether it suits or not. And it's better than "carrot" ;) YLSS (talk) 20:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

And definitely better than "stick"! 8•P Useddenim (talk) 02:32, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Concerning the need for keeping Berlin’s U2 and U9 clearly distinct, changing U2’s F25821 to FF6600 could be a mistake, as it makes it lighter, but U9’s EB851C would also be made lighter (FFAB2E), so I guess it is okay? -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:54, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

From a brief glance at de:U-Bahnlinie_2_(Berlin), I got the impression that it is regarded as a "red" line, so I guess merging F25821 into orange wouldn't be good. Better ask Uzdzislaw's advice (or Axpde's). YLSS (talk) 16:40, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I see your point — likely these F25821 icons need to be replaced with red ones, then. But that’s a matter of Wikipedia, not for Commons. What we have here is a set of orange icons, which could have been used somewhere else as such (maybe they were, in some other project off the Wikimedia name space). We need to treat them as orange. (To make it easier, I’ll make red versions of all needed icons, so that wp:en can change from F25821 effortlessly.) -- Tuválkin ✉ 10:42, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Well,   (uBHF BlnU2) is used for en:Template:Brussels metro line 5 RDT Brussels M5 in wp:en, and that’s clearly orange… If Berlin U2 is better served with red icons, I made sure all BlnU2 icons exist also in the set red. It is out of Common’s hands, now, and we could go ahead and merge U2 to set orange. -- Tuválkin ✉ 03:20, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi there, awesome work going on I see! I'd personally replace U2 by red, also because it's definitely redder on the operator site (I mean the red bullet boxes in the station list). — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 23:44, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done -- Tuválkin ✉ 22:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll rather see U9 to be orange than saffron, although it's also a matter of opinion. — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 23:44, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done, too, but now maybe U2 and U9 are too close? Maybe U2 should be darker, “bahn-red”, for contrast? (Anyway, this talk belong at en:wp, not here!) -- Tuválkin ✉ 22:40, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

I had this “good idea” that FFAB2E (and Moscow’s FFA500) could be integrated as ex-versions of orange (which are currently FF9955, very close, and whose 60% opacity is FDA164, ditto) — however set FFAB2E already has a set of ex-icons, and its use (use/disuse in French wp about Moscow Metro line 6) needs them. So, no unifying, here. -- Tuválkin ✉ 01:48, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

About F09E36

One more set now, F09E36. Presently at Category:Kaluzhsko-Rizhskaya Line. YLSS (talk) 20:36, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Good grief. Туча knows well that this discussion is going on and yet decides to create new icons named in a way that goes against the growing consensus above, and keeps them “hidden” in a category off away the rest. Talk about good faith, really. (See also this.)

Anyway, this new shade of orange is close enough to FFAB2E to allow for a seamless integration, yes?

-- Tuválkin ✉ 21:04, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

That’s the way Туча is: see this and this. Useddenim (talk) 23:10, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

To his defence: he had no intention of hiding this and moved his uploads to root category. His reply at ru.wp (Please forgive any mistranslations, either someone's got to learn English, or others Russian.):

I guess that the colours at Template:MOSMETRO_color were taken from some official map a long time ago. <...> I noticed that the colours of template head and of icons themselves differ greatly, and tweaked one to suit the other. That's all. This colour is far more pleasant than the bright toxic orange. Concerning the fact that icons should differ, then delete close German colours, not Moscow ones. However, I said from the start that this is a bad option, and it would be better to leave everything as it is: each Wikipedia has with its own colours, and Germans do not teach Muscovites, Muscovites do not teach those from Saint Petersburg, and the latter do not teach Japanese on what colour to paint their templates with.

Well, he has a point. YLSS (talk) 23:51, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

He does? Maybe, but it is a terrible point to make. Doing nothing allows things like having two slightly differently colored sets of icons, one for Moscow subway line 6 in Russian Wikipedia and another for the same in Spanish and French Wikipedias. Doing nothing now allows for things like that to multiply as wikipedias grow, needlessly swelling the amount of semantically and graphically equivalent BSicons.

• If he wants to have and use independent icon sets, then he should be uploading them to wp:ru, not to :commons. (Good luck with that…)
• As for his criticism about the shade of orange, nobody is suggesting that Moscow subway line 6 should be rendered as bright orange (while he himself mentioned  (BHF orange) as an «other version» of   (BHF moscow6) — WTF?), but unified with the other shades of pale orange, one of which was created to illustrated that very same Moscow subway line 6, in use if the French and Spanish wikipedias.
• As for what gets to be «deleted», usually we have been favouring, among two or more really close colors, the one that has more icons to it, although after reuploading RGB changed SVGs and renaming them, and collapsing unmatching sets, it is really a melting pot, not a game of Risk.

-- Tuválkin ✉ 01:16, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

1. I do not understand, what you mean about the BHF orange, i just pointed out, which icon i was oriented, when i made the next, because it was not always orange in all cases, some orange icons hefty large size have in bytes. When the picture is quite difficult, i just wrote that it is a derivative work, and if it is very simple, i just gave a link to other version.
2. FFAB2E, i think, may be deleted, because it is now little used, i changed it in french wikipedias, and, i known, it was never used for this circuit in the spanish.
3. I think all the free images should be loaded on commons.
4. What is it, game of Risk?--Туча (talk) 07:30, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

A game of world conquest; see en:Risk (game). Useddenim (talk) 14:54, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I've posted at ru.wp a note on colours on current "official" maps, which number at least at five. Since FFAB2E looks very much close to the midway FBAA33 and F09E36 does not, I guess I'll begin merging "moscow6" into "FFAB2E", renaming them at the same time as "saffron". Any objections? YLSS (talk) 17:17, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I’m all for it. (Back in 1999 I lived for a couple weeks close to Ясенево, so I get a voice on this.) -- Tuválkin ✉ 19:40, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

After discussion with Туча, I merged "moscow6" into "saffron". I haven't re-uploaded any files with a single colour; if Туча doesn't do this, after a couple of days I'll do. YLSS (talk) 13:29, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Я изменил все картинки saffron, имевшие цвета F09E36 и F5BE79, на цвета FFAB2E и FFC969 соотвественно, как вы просили. Чёрт с вами. --Туча (talk) 18:23, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

I changed all the icons [to] saffron, the color had F09E36 and F5BE79, the colors FFAB2E and FFC969 appropriately, as you requested. Damn you all. (Translation courtesy google) Useddenim (talk) 03:33, 16 March 2013 (UTC) I changed all saffron icons, which in fact were F09E36 and F5BE79 color after renameing, to FFAB2E and FFC969 respectively, as you requested.--Туча (talk) 12:44, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Lines with multiple colors

Renaming multiple color icons

The 45 icons currently at Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set CC6600 present an interesting case. I’ll lay out here my ideas about their renaming, as an example on how to deal with those pesky faux "ex" icons, and also with mixed icons which include other colors:

• 29 icons using only CC6600; named FOO_CC6600.
  Trivial situation.
• 2 icons using FF6600; named exFOO_CC6600:
  •   (exCONTr CC6600)
  •   (exCONTl CC6600)

  These can be renamed to integrate the orange set (RGB matches, as observed), and replaced with identical icons using the RGB value agreed upon to be this set’s "ex" color — DEA164. Naming is trivial. ( Done:   (CONTl orange) already existed — usage changed. -- Tuválkin ✉ 01:54, 11 March 2013 (UTC))

• 2 icons using CC6600 and FF6600; named eFOO_CC6600:
  •   (eABZrg CC6600)
  •   (eABZlg CC6600)

  As above, these can be replaced with proper "e" coloring, using DEA164.  Done -- Tuválkin ✉ 17:47, 12 March 2013 (UTC) However, these icons can be renamed to cover any need of their standing for not regular+ex but for ochre+orange (as seems to be the case of the current use, although Vienna U6 would be better illustrated with brown…) — I suggest using filenames with "m" added with both color names connected with a "+":   (mABZrg ochre+orange) inspired on  (mABZrg).

• 3 icons using CC6600 and normal; named FOO_CC6600:
  •   (tKRZ+tunnel CC6600)
  •   (tKRZ CC6600)
  •   (KRZu CC6600)

  As above but with only "+ochre" (either after the space or inside the bracket pair); these icons, where the normal-red line shows across, should be renamed to reflect the fact that normal trumps ochre, but swapping "u" for "o", the placement of "t", and adding "q".

• 3 icons using CC6600 and green;
  • named FOO_green_CC6600:
    •   (tKRZ green CC6600)
    •   (KRZol green CC6600)
    •   (xAKRZue green CC6600) (shouldn’t be "x")

    As above: considering that this is the special footpath green, instead of a double colorname with an "+", I suggest adding "fm" before the rootname (analogous to the many "um" icons) and "+ochre". Again, footpath-green trumps ochre, so these icons will need some general name fixing.

• 4 icons using FF6600 and green;
  • 2 named e/x/FOO_green_CC6600:
    •   (evSTRrf green CC6600)
    •   (vxKBHFa green CC6600)

    As above, these can be duplicated — the uncanged code renamed to add to the orange set, and these ex-ochre recolored to DEA164. All to be renamed with "m" and "f" before the root, its placement w.r.t. "x" and "e" matching the many disused icons in the mixed set.

  • 2 named FOO_green_CC6600:
    •   (ABZlg green CC6600)
    •   (ABZrf green CC6600)

    These two exactly as above, but spawning fixed 3 icons each, not 2, because they were obviously misnamed, lacking a prefix "e".

• One coopted icon (see #Ochre+Tawny?), to be renamed:
  •  (TokyoFukutoshin) → lDST_ochre

  (or whatever other name, depending on the ongoing discussion about spaces vs. brackets, and the prefix for legende)

How does it sound as a plan? -- Tuválkin ✉ 03:13, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Berlin U-bahn

I figure it would make sense to split   (uvSTR BlnU12) and the like into separate, single-coloured icons for overlay use. Should I do it? — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 10:40, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done:   (uvSTR- BlnU1)   (udSTR BlnU1)  (v-STR orange) uv-STR BlnU2  (dSTR orange) udSTR BlnU2^{(U2 meanwhile renamed. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:43, 1 April 2013 (UTC))}. Useddenim (talk) 21:53, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

 Also done:   (uvBS2+r BlnU1)   (uvSTR+r- BlnU1)   (vBS2l orange) uvBS2l BlnU2  (v-STRr orange) uv-STRr BlnU2^{(U2 meanwhile renamed. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:43, 1 April 2013 (UTC))}. So now all the BlnU12 icons   (uvSTR BlnU12)   (uvSTRg+r BlnU12)   (uvSTRg+r-STR BlnU12)   (uvSTRr-KRZ BlnU12) are used only in userspaces and can be therefore (?) deprecated or deleted. — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 13:41, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

While I agree that overlays is the way to go for any imaginable use of differently colored icon sets, I’m firmly convinced that a naming system that allows for single-icon depiction of disparate color lines is a big plus — as indeed has been part of the BSicon system since the 1st "m" icon was created.

I’d like to keep these icons, at least for now, as guinea pigs for mixed set naming rules — replacing them in the wp:en Belin U-bahn diagram is nonethe less a good idea, as it already uses overlays other than these, and is bound to need more in the future.

-- Tuválkin ✉ 19:10, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

RizhMZD

And there is Category:Icons for railway descriptions/RizhMZD, most of which should be deleted. Single-colour icons could possibly be salvaged, if we need yet another shade of light blue (do we?..). YLSS (talk) 14:17, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I moved it back from the obsolete category to under "other colors", and will add them to the tables above. (Sorry about that, YLSS, and sorry for chopping your comment to pieces, too!) You’re very right about the single-color ones being useful, and, while we certainly don’t need yet another light blue, we could make use of the "MO MZD" color shade, adding it to the fuchsianew “ruby” set — a color share we’re strangely almost missing on our rainbow. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

The colors in this set, from simplest to weirdest usage, follow. Let’s fix this thing. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Here’s the renamings/redirections I suggest:

redirect to existing icons		new u icons
(STR RizhMZD)	→  (uSTR)	(ABZlfg RizhMZD)	→  (uABZgxl+r), akin to  (ABZgxl+r)
(STRq 67f8ff)	→  (uSTRq)	new uf icons
(STRlf RizhMZD)	→  (uSTRlf)	(ABZdg 67f8ff green)	→   (ufABZdg), akin to   (ueABZdg)
(STRlg RizhMZD 1)	→  (uSTRlg)	(KRZo RizhMZD 1)	→  (ufKRZo)
(STRrf RizhMZD)	→  (uSTRrf)	new u icons + another color
(STRrg RizhMZD)	→  (uSTRrg)	(KRZo RizhMZD)	→   (uemKRZo +saffron)
(ABZlf RizhMZD 2)	→  (uABZlf)	(KRZu RizhMZD 1)	→  (umKRZu +ruby)
(ABZlg RizhMZD)	→  (uABZlg)	(KRZu RizhMZD)	→  (umKRZu +red)
(STRr+l RizhMZD)	→  (uSTRr+l)	(ABZlf RizhMZD 1)	→   (umABZlf +red), cp.  (umABZlf)
(ABZlg RizhMZD 1)	→  (uxABZlg)	(ABZlf RizhMZD)	→   (umABZlf red+), cp.  (mABZlf)
(ABZrg RizhMZD 1)	→  (ueABZrg)	(ABZdrf RizhMZD)	→  (umABZrxl ruby+)
(eABZdg RizhMZD)	→   (ueABZdg)	new red icons
(ABZdrf RizhMZD 1)	→   (uABZdrf)	(STRq RizhMZD 1)	→  (STRq red)
(eGRENZE RizhMZD)	→  (ueGRENZE)	(eABZ3lf RizhMZD)	→  (eABZq+l red)
(WaterBridge RizhMZD)	→  (uWBRÜCKE)	new orange icons
(BHF RizhMZD)	→  (uBHF)	(STRq RizhMZD)	→  (STRq orange)
(exBHF RizhMZD)	→  (ueBHF)?	(and another one I cannot locate)
(HST RizhMZD)	→  (uHST)	new ruby icons
(KBFa RizhMZD)	→  (uKBHFa)	(STR MO MZD)	→  (STR ruby)
(KDSe RizhMZD)	→  (uKDSTe)	(STRq MO MZD)	→  (STRq ruby)
(ABZrg RizhMZD)	→  (uABZrg)	(eABZ3lf MO MZD)	→  (ABZq+l ruby)
(BHF MosMetro7)	→  (exBHF violet)	(eABZ3lg MO MZD)	→  (eABZqr ruby)
(BHF MosMetro1)	→   (BHF EF161E) →  (BHF red)	(ABZdlr MO MZD)	→   (ABZdlr ruby)
(STR RizhMZD 1)	→   (STR EF161E) →  (STR red)	(KRZo MO MZD)	→  (eKRZo ruby)

In total we gain one useful icon,  (uABZgxl+r), maybe three —  (STRq orange) and  (STRq red), and a bunch of still almost useless but at least consistenly named ones, as we eliminate a whole bunch of oddball namings and designs, with no loss for any project and gaining that no user in the future will be tempted to use them as they were. Anyone against these changes? Opinions? -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:57, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Unnecessary, IMO. In the user template, these all should be replaced with plain red icons for railways, not the blue ones. Rubies could be salvaged. YLSS (talk) 19:13, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Talking as wp:ru editor, I think you are absoluetely right (these two diagrams are not in use anyway, right?); talking as Commons editors, I saw we should salvage as much as possible. -- Tuválkin ✉ 07:01, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

RizhMZD green

green, 2 icons (all partial): Identical to #f-Green: As far as the green part goes, can be swiftly integrated. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

RizhMZD red

red, 7 icons (4 partial): integrated with the rest.  Done -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

RizhMZD orange

orange, 3 icons (1 partial): to be integrated with set FFAB2E, very close. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

RizhMZD purple

ex-purple, 1 icon: #Purples is a wasps’ nest I am not in a hurry to poke, but at least one thing is clear:   (BHF_MosMetro7) (the only singleton among the 43 icons of #RizhMZD set) is identical to  (exBHF violet), and it is unused in the article space. Looks like a clean replace case, even if later on the latter will have to be recolored to something closer to 800080’s ex-eqv. B164B1. -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:33, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:40, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

purple, 8 icons (5 partial): As said this color shade, reddish purple (“ruby”), is almost absent in our palette. Can it be merged with any of the above? -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

New Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set ruby created. -- Tuválkin ✉ 20:18, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

See discussion. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:49, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

RizhMZD black

black, 10 icons (all partial): Neither clear nor easy, but after considering the usage and naming, I suggest that we consider the black track segments of these icons to be disused track — which is rendered in the subdued "ex" shade in typical icons. To this hint not only the prefix "e" in some of these icons, but also the fact that black is usely exclusively along with other colors (as also green, and although the set contains two icons with typical paler "ex" color — blue and purple). I suggest therefore to recolor and rename all these as such. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

RizhMZD blues

blue, 29 icons (9 partial): This is the trickiest. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, yes. I come to the following unexpected conclusion: While painted in very light blue, this line, to be faithful to the graphical spirit of our BSicons, is to be understood as a regular blue line. Please compare these two, as contrasted with their normal-red counterparts:

•   (BHF RizhMZD)   :  (BHF)
•   (exBHF RizhMZD) :  (exBHF) (or meant  (eBHF)?)

See that the color for the track line in use is deliberately different from that for a station in use, indeed being even lighter than that of a disused station. I defend that this style is too far removed from what are our usual practices and should be replaced by icons showing the same color for all features in use. Since the only use is a couple of abandoned user pages, the simplest way to procede, I think, is to assume that regular "u" blue was meant (instead of an yet-to-be-decided other shade of blue) and thusly redo/redirect these icons. That, along with the reinterpretation of RizhMZD black lines above as "ex" will result in the replacing of most of these RizhMZD bluse icons with existing ones. (Should a specific need arise for a light blue line with darker startion, both in use and disused, that can still be covered by BSicons, by use of differently colored overlays or even two-color icons.) -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

(As an aside: The reason behind creating this set was, I believe, the fact that several years ago all ten lines of Moscow commuter railways were assigned official colours, e.g. cyan for Rizhskoye. Fencing along the railways was painted correspondingly. Otherwise, these colours didn't show up anywhere, and few people are aware of these colours' existence (in contrast to Moscow Metro). So, ru.wp uses plain red icons for railways. YLSS (talk) 18:31, 7 March 2013 (UTC))

I see — why didn’t he made the station and halts roundels cyan also? Makes no sense. Oh well — we’re still better served with new two-color icons where one color is vastly used, than we’d been with both rare colors. Should anyone want to create cyan icons — well, we have them! -- Tuválkin ✉ 07:01, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

I've moved from ru.wp five icons of pure cyan shade (#00FFFF), and together with those from RizhMZD they make up quite a full set. YLSS (talk) 18:46, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good. :-) -- Tuválkin ✉ 01:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Naming special color variants:

Note that perception of color is not only very subjective, but also varies from monitor to monitor. Useddenim (talk) 12:37, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Either way, this whole thing’s a mess, namewise, and a major revamp should be made. --Tuvalkin (talk) 13:52, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I think, large-scale renaming or merging two or more different colors in one technically not justified at all. Conflicts of participants from different countries in this case are inevitable, and if the icon is widely used there will problems with updating pages cache, decor will be violated. The game is not worth the candle. Let it be as it is. --Туча (talk) 21:39, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

The fact that you apparently didn’t notice that FOO_green and fFOO has been renamed back and forth for the last year shows that said renaming (even of the 3rd most used color of BSicons) doesn’t affect the projects in any noticeable way. The thinly veiled threat about «conflicts of participants from different countries» is also moot, as people active in this discussion come each from a different home wikipedia. -- Tuválkin ✉ 00:25, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I know whereof i speak. The situation with f and green is familiar to me, i took part in this, and i know what problems it creates in the articles. It does not need work. It will cause inconvenience to readers, it will load servers, it will take time of people, and it shall be useless. --Туча (talk) 09:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

No, it shall be (or already it is being) very useful. Bear in mind that the usage of all these icons, including the normal red and blue ones, is, for now, really small, comparing to what it could be: Many articles about railways without diagrams, even in bigger wikipedias. That means that changing what is already done is a lesser inconvenience compared with the advantages of improving the system to be more logical and easy to use for its future users.

There is no way we can say to a newcomer who needs to work with green icons that they can be named "fFOO" or "FOO_green" and there’s no logic behind it, we’re stuck with it just because. Fixing that now is the best thing we could do.

-- Tuválkin ✉ 04:45, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

(A really good quintessence of the whole underlying philosophy! YLSS (talk) 13:27, 4 March 2013 (UTC))

It is interesting logic. If you believe in it, then the flag is in your hands, but it will be very bad if after half a year on the same scale changes occur again under the same slogans, and it will become a habit. --Туча (talk) 18:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Offtopic veer: click to open

Is he talking about the   (ABZ2) → to  (ABZg2) et al. changes? Useddenim (talk) 23:18, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Keep in mind that the preceding comment comes from the editor who refuses to release the  (TRAIN) to  (BAHN) redirect because he prefers to use English instead of German (among other reasons—perhaps he’s still fighting his great-grandfather’s WWII battle against the Nazis…) Useddenim (talk) 11:59, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Personal attacks can hardly recognize the constructive activities. Although your version about the Nazis is quite fun.--Туча (talk) 19:26, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

HexRGB value vs. generic name

Let’s cast our vote on this?

RGB	name	User
		-- Tuválkin ✉ 10:31, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
		YLSS (talk) 20:03, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
		--Туча (talk) 18:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
		-- Useddenim (talk) 23:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
−3	+2	(tally up)

It has been suggested that the BS icon hex value color sets be replaced with ones using "natural" names. (talk) 12:37, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I would prefer a named set vs. RGB code, although I've seen opposite opinions here. (I guess I'd better drop a note at ru:wp as well.) YLSS (talk) 14:55, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I for one prefer a generic color name than a strict RGB value, and I have been indending on discussing that. Concerning the browns, it is much simpler to keep the name "brown" and just edit and/or move all icons to either of the chosen RGB value. -- Tuválkin ✉ 15:15, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Tuválkin, are you sure you want to rename all those sets? I mean, "robin", "tangerine", "cadet" etc. would be no more clear to general users than RGB codes - and at the same time they are not so precise. I would say that common colour names would be enough, that is (green,) orange, yellow, violet, brown & black; possibly also teal, grey and red (for EF161E), if you are really ready to rename them. Others I would've let alone. YLSS (talk) 20:59, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree that cryptic names are not a good idea, and I want us to adopt the best choices, however even the weirdest are still better than RGBs. Because:

• Almost no-one can recognize in their heads a color shade by looking at an RGB (actually I can), and also because these suggested names are all actual English color names in use, however specialized, and and can be thus looked up (and memorized — which is important, as these icons are to be used by Wikipedia editors, not readers).
• RGBs are a bad idea also because they lock each named icon set to a specific color shade. If we ever want to change the exact shade of, say, yellow, we can go around just uploading slightly modified SVGs and that's that — if the filenames indicate a specific color shade, that can be done, but the name becomes misleading. Besides, that’s what happens already with the exRGB icons — while the icon   (KBHFa 029B52) does show indded the color 029B52, the icon   (exKBHFa 029B52) does not and that’s confusing. On the other hand, having two icons   (KBHFa(seagreen)) and   (exKBHFa(seagreen)), the latter with a more lighter and unsaturated shade, is perfectly acceptable. (Specific names for each color should be discussed under the respective headings.)

So, yes, I’d go for generic color names for all icon sets, even those with really few icons and scarce use. -- Tuválkin ✉ 07:46, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

So what, under what name should I upload new icons now, "XXX 999999" or "XXX grey"? I know Tuválkin's answer, but would like to hear others' opinions. YLSS (talk) 16:01, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

meanwhile decided by voting that should be name, not RGB

---

I think we should either have sets called with all three of "green", "blue" and "red", or none of the three (and it doesn't look like we'll have a green-named set. What's slated for "red" could easily become "crimson" instead.). I think "cerulean" is a fine name for any of the sets (after all, we used "vert"). Could "sky" be a reasonably simple name? Circeus (talk) 06:37, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree that all simple color names should be used (as not using any isn’t a practical option). Indeed, the name "green", as soon as it made free by renaming and recategorization of set "f", will be used for 2DBE2C. The name "red" was free and fits EF161E as well or better than any other — of course BE2D2C is our main color, but it doesn’t need a name (set "") and it is also an atypical shade of red. (Other replies q.v..) -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Ah, alright. I was under the vague impression (I'm following this discussion only from afar) "green" wouldn't be used, hence my slight confusion. Circeus (talk) 05:55, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Determining generic name from RGB

RGB	used in…	#	current name	name of best match [q.v.]	rename?	⨇?	final RGB	comment
003399	set blue	(many)	u…	IKBlue	u…	no	003399	standard "u" blue
0256A4	set 0256A4	17	…0256A4	cobalt blue	…denim	yes	00619F
00619F	Berlin U-Bahn	15	u…BlnU8	cerulean
0079C2	Tokyo	3	TokyoMita	true blue	…blue	yes	0078BE
0078BE	set 0078BE	10	0078BE
1A8BB9	set 1A8BB9	41	…1A8BB9	bondi blue	…cerulean	no	1A8BB9
069DD3	Berlin U-Bahn	10	u…BlnU7	robin egg blue	…sky	yes	069DD3
00A7DB	Tokyo	4	TokyoTozai
029EE0	set 029EE0	16	…029EE0					All usage replaced by azure
00A0DD	other colors	1	…00A0DD		…azure	yes	3399FF	merged into azure
3399FF	set azure	53	…3399FF	dodger blue				ex339999 = 3399FF, ex3399FF = 99CCFF
67F8FF	RizhMZD	13+	…RizhMZD	electric blue	…cyan	yes	40E0D0
00FFFF	set cyan	5	…cyan	aqua
99CCFF	set 99CCFF	23	…99CCFF	baby blue	ex…azure	no	99CCFF	merged as "ex" into azure
99CCFF	set BUTOVO	13	…BUTOVO	white; baby blue	…steel	no	A1B3D4	Relevant ru:Бутовская линия changed (type &) colour
339999	set teal	31	…339999	jungle green	…teal	yes	339999
14A796	Berlin U-Bahn	10	u…BlnU3
00ADA9	Tokyo	1	TokyoNamboku	persian green
009090	SMT	4	u…SMT
009944	Tokyo	1	TokyoChiyoda	pigment green	g…	yes	2CA05A
029B52	set 029B52	22	…029B52
2CA05A	set 2CA05A	57	…2CA05A	sea green				Also categorized under canal; see also the "g / ug / mg / umg / 2CA05A" naming discussion.
	canal	175	g… & ug…
008000	set green	237	f…	office green	f…	no	008000	Also categorized as footpath, partly common sets; see also "f / green" naming discussion.
	footpath	49	f…		—
B4EEB4	set B4EEB4	6	…B4EEB4	magic mint	ex…green?	no	7FD67E	Recolored: see discussion.
53B147	Berlin U-Bahn	15	u…BlnU1	asparagus	…jade	no	53B147
6CBB5A	Tokyo	1	TokyoShinjuku	mantis	fex…	no	64B164
2DBE2C	set vert	13	…vert	lime green	…green?	no	2DBE2C
99CC00	set lime	34	…99CC00	apple green	…lime	yes	99CC00
B3D52E	set B3D52E	9	…B3D52E	yellow-green				All usage replaced by lime
D7C447	Tokyo	2	TokyoYurakucho	old gold	…golden	no	D7C447	See discussion.
FFD403	Berlin U-Bahn	8	u…BlnU4	gold	…yellow	yes	FFD702
FFD702	set yellow	86	…yellow
FFAB2E	set FFAB2E	19	…FFAB2E	saffron	…saffron	yes	FFAB2E	Moved to set saffron.
FFA500	RizhMZD	3	…RizhMZD …MosMetro5	Orange (web)				See discussion.
F39700	Tokyo	1	TokyoGinza	princeton orange
F09E36	other colors	22	…moscow6	carrot orange
EB851C	Berlin U-Bahn	9	u…BlnU9
FF6600	set black-orange	7	…black-orange	safety orange	…black-orange	yes	FF6600	See discussion.
FF6600	set orange	123	…orange		…orange			=exCC6600
F25821	Berlin U-Bahn	14			u…BlnU2			See discussion.
E60012	Tokyo	1	TokyoMarunouchi	red	…red	yes	EF161E
FF0000	RizhMZD	7	…RizhMZD_1 …RizhMZD …MosMetro1					See discussion.
EF161E	set EF161E	15	…EF161E	lust
BE2D2C	(all)	(lotsa)	…	fire brick	—	no	BE2D2C	main standard color
E85298	Tokyo	1	TokyoAsakusa	french rose	ex…ruby	yes	DE64A1
CC0066	RizhMZD	8	…MO MZD	Ruby	…ruby	yes	CC0066
B5198D	set B5198D	9	…B5198D	red-violet	…fuchsia	yes	B5198D
B6007A	Tokyo	1	TokyoOedo
800080	set violet	83	…violet	purple	…violet	no	800080
8171AC	Berlin U-Bahn	25	u…BlnU6	cool grey	…purple	yes	8171AC
9B7CB6	Tokyo	1	TokyoHanzomon
9999FF	set 9999FF	8	…9999FF	lavander	…lavender	no	9999FF
C0C0C0	set C0C0C0	44	…C0C0C0	silver	ex…grey	yes	C0C0C0	All usage replaced, partly merged as "ex" to 999999
9CAEB7	Tokyo	1	TokyoHibiya	cadet grey	…grey		999999
A9A9AA	set A9A9AA	7	…A9A9AA	rose quartz				All usage replaced by 999999
999999	set grey	40	…999999
000000	set black	61	…black	black	…black	no	000000
71592E	set 71592E	17	…71592E	coffee	…brown	yes	8D5B2D	Non-duplicate moved & reloaded as brown, all usage replaced
825A42	Berlin U-Bahn	4	u…BlnU5	raw umber
8D5B2D	set brown	9	…brown	chestnut
BB641D	Tokyo	1	TokyoFukutoshin	ochre	…ochre	yes	CC6600
CC6600	set CC6600	44	…CC6600	tawny
RGB	used in…	#	current name	name of best match [q.v.]	rename?	⨇?	final RGB	comment

Space vs. brackets

Let’s cast our vote on this?

space	brackets	User
		-- Tuválkin ✉ 10:31, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
		-- Useddenim (talk) 11:44, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
		YLSS (talk) 20:05, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
		Circeus (talk) 18:56, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
		--Туча (talk) 19:55, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
+3	−3	(tally up)

I started (experimentally) using brackets instead of a space (or an "_") to integrate the color name in “other color” icons. This solution could also be used in other icon names, as needed. -- Tuválkin ✉ 11:14, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Whether with or without brackets, well, I think we shouldn't use too many special chars in our names ... a×p_de^Hello! 12:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Concerning “special characters” — well, space is the trickiest of them all (thankfully Mediawiki defangs it into a "_" in most ocasions), and we rushed to get rid of them in the KRW icons, for instance. How “special” are brackets? They are A-OK for filenames even in old computer systems, and surely they are not missing in any keyboard that includes the Latin script letters and indo-arabic digits we already use. Any other opinions? -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

And brackets - purely aesthetically I would prefer "XXX grey", and the desire to lessen renamings etc. for existing sets thus named backs it. ? YLSS (talk) 16:01, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

The desire to lessen renamings, note, is not important when it comes to these “other color” icons, as their usage is minimal. We should strive for the best possible nomenclature now, disregarding any weight from the statu quo, because there’s not much around. Anyone with filemover rights (me, Useddenim, Axpde — who else?) could renamed all these “other color” icons and fix their usage in a week or two. -- Tuválkin ✉ 03:24, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Another reason for my favouring of brackets over space is that in a diagram with BS templates a space can be called as either a "_" or a " ", and that may cause problems when trying find an icon in the article’s source code. That was on of the reasons to drop the space as part of the icon IDs in ABZs, KRWs, and the "_legende" business. -- Tuválkin ✉ 10:31, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I suggest that people who favor spaces instead of brackets should volonteer to help in the renaming of some current usage of green icons to "fFOO" — because it doubles the work, as you have to look up for both "FOO_green" and "FOO green". -- Tuválkin ✉ 17:29, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

One year later, and we know how well this went over… -- Tuválkin ✉ 16:45, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Special sets

One of the results of the standartization we aim for is that disappears the need for special icons, as they are integrated in a larger common pool, even if their special specific use is atypical. For instance, Tokyo mass transit lines are maked with what is normally an overlay/legend depiction of a depot or cargo/goods station. Do we need to keep those special sets nominally current by means of specially named redirects, gathered in specific categories? I think not, but what do the rest think? -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Tokyo

The specific Tokyo diagram usage is no obstacle for ex-colors being used as main, as these are only overlay or legend roundels, added to regular RDT blue or red icons… -- Tuválkin ✉ 04:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Summary of color changes:

Line	old rgb	new rgb	old icon (redir.)	new icon	Remarks
Mita	0079C2	0079C2	(TokyoMita)	(lDST_blue)	discussed;  no change
Tozai	00A7DB	069DD3	(TokyoTozai)	(lDST_sky)	discussed;  Done
Namboku	00ADA9	339999	(TokyoNamboku)	(lDST_teal)	discussed;  Done
Chiyoda	009944	2CA05A	(TokyoChiyoda)	(glDST)	discussed;  Done
Shinjuku	6CBB5A	64B164	(TokyoShinjuku)	(fexlDST)	discussed;  Done
Yurakucho	D7C447	D7C447	(TokyoYurakucho)	(lDST_golden)	discussed;  no change
Ginza	F39700	FFAB2E	(TokyoGinza)	(lDST_saffron)	discussed;  Done
Marunouchi	E60012	EF161E	(TokyoMarunouchi)	(lDST_red)	discussed;  Done
Asakusa	E85298	DE64A1	(TokyoAsakusa)	(exlDST_ruby)	discussed;  Done
Oedo	B6007A	B5198D	(TokyoOedo)	(lDST_fuchsia)	discussed;  Done
Hanzomon	9B7CB6	8171AC	(TokyoHanzomon)	(lDST_purple)	discussed;  Done
Hibiya	9CAEB7	A1B3D4	(TokyoHibiya)	(lDST_steel)	discussed;  Done
Fukutoshin	BB641D	CC6600	(TokyoFukutoshin)	(lDST_ochre)	discussed;  Done

I edited your proposal a bit in respect of prefix order. YLSS (talk) 16:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC) Discussion moved to Talk:BSicon/Renaming#Prefix position.

Redirects

While I don’t defend a set of named redirects for these whithin the BSicon system (i.e. named BSiconSOMETHING and as such usable, in that renamed form, from within a diagram), I presume that said set of redirects could be created to allow better semantics when calling these icons from within inline text or other non-BSicon uses. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile I noticed that these icons, named "BSicon_TokyoSomething.svg", are called by a few templates, and there is a family of other icons (not filenamed "BSicon…") akin to these but showing letters inside the ring, and consistently named (these other icons however need to be RBG-changed to in order to match the now-changed whole). This calls for exceptional permanent redirects to the   (DST_legende)-style names. -- Tuválkin ✉ 09:30, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

I created  (lDST_red) by renaming  (TokyoMarunouchi) — a redirect was created. Right now its uses are redlinked, even in Commons. I wonder how long and what takes (if anything) for the redirect to show up, even in BS diagrams? -- Tuválkin ✉ 06:19, 2 April 2013 (UTC))

Because of the redirect File:BSicon TokyoMarunouchi.svg: Hi, It is working very disadvantageous to the forwarding with our de:Template:Japan-Bahnsteig Knochen ﱢﻝﱢ‎  17:33, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that’s what I was saying above. And wondering, how long does it take for the redirect to work in all projects, or what is necessary to be done. -- Tuválkin ✉ 19:26, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Why did you have to move the file? Would not suffice the new file with the changed colors to load it? --Knochen ﱢﻝﱢ‎  21:19, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

As to why, you can read what’s on this section, or consider general guidelines for icon naming. That is not specifically a Marunouchi roundel, that’s just a generic red trackless DST. We’re striving for unification here, and these redirects not working properly (yet, I hope) are one of the growing pains of that trend. (Maybe the templates calling for these now-redirectings could be changed to call directly the icons by their new names?) -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Yay, the redirect is showing up as of today, in Commons and wp:de (at least). We can say it takes around 48 h for a redirect to show up, then? -- Tuválkin ✉ 14:15, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Now it was the turn for  (TokyoYurakucho) to be replaced with  (lDST_golden), and (not) to show up after two days; next up:  (TokyoNamboku) →  (lDST_teal). -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:40, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Maybe it would be better to rename them en masse? Less editing, less time in disrupted state. YLSS (talk) 19:19, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I thought of that, and really there’s both advantages and disadvantages in both approaches: Either a lot of disruption in a shorter period, or less disruption in a longer period (no editing is involved, note, only moving). Maybe the 1st approach is superior if it is understood that any disruption, big or small, is (almost) equally unacceptable and therefore the sooner it is all done, the better. Maybe Knochen could chime in? -- Tuválkin ✉ 23:44, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

(Some use [of  (lDST_red)], namely in wp:bg, is not semantically Tokyo Marunousi, so that was renamed to the new name. -- Tuválkin ✉ 06:19, 2 April 2013 (UTC))

Berlin

Summary of color changes:

U	old rgb	new rgb	Remarks
U1	53B147	53B147	No change.
U2	F25821	FF6600	But its use changed to red. See discussion.
U3	14A796	339999	See discussion.
U4	FFD403	FFD702	Trivial change; see discussion.
U5	825A42	8D5B2D	Trivial change; see discussion.
U6	8171AC	8171AC	No change.
U7	069DD3	069DD3	No change.
U8	00619F	00619F	No change.
U9	EB851C	FFAB2E	But its use changed to orange. See discussion.

Up so far this was a very neat set, although some of its icons has been used for other diagrams, too, both in the native English Wikipedia (e.g. Bucharest Metro) and abroad (e.g. Oporto metro and subrurban railways, in the Portuguese Wikipedia), which added to the set new icons, not used in the Berlin diagram. I asked the original uploader about his views. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Moved from User_talk:Tuvalkin#Re:_Berlin_U-Bahn_colours

Hi! Coincidentally I have noticed that discussion a few days ago and in general I think that unifying the colours and names is a very good idea, especially since—as you've pointed out—icons named BlnUx are used for diagrams for Bucharest, Porto and other cities. So a priori I don't care if the icon is named BlnU3 or teal, as long as its colour is sufficiently close to the "original" and, even more importantly, different from another shade of green for . I just imagine a possible issue if the diagram is indeed composed from, say, teal and lightgreen icons and someone decides to change the shade of teal and unintentionally makes the colour too similar to light green. But this is not really that likely, I assume.

Also, I don't care about the category. It was meant to be yet another "color set" category, only containing nine colours and not one, due to my laziness (or to avoid clobbering, choose one).

⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 10:40, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Sounds great — this special set can therefore be fully integrated with the existing system, setting the example for any other such special use of oddly colored BSicons. -- Tuválkin ✉ 18:42, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

As for the expressed concern over some future change that might render hitherto distinct icon sets indistinguishable, I can only say that I share it, but that having a centralized and streamlined icon set with colored subsets and a body of practices and procedures about its usage is the best way tyo ensure that will never happen. -- Tuválkin ✉ 19:03, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

So maybe introduce later a policy of listing all templates/pages/projects that use a particular colour set on that colour set's category page, akin to "(Global) file usage" on file pages, so that people attempting to modify the colours would know what caution to take? Sadly it could not be automated, like the latter - or could it? Anyway, an idea to think about. — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 10:53, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi there, awesome work going on I see! I'd personally replace U2 by red, also because it's definitely redder on the operator site (I mean the red bullet boxes in the station list). If there's a consensus on that, I'll rather see U9 to be orange than saffron, although it's also a matter of opinion. Also, once either U1 or U2 gets finally dealt with, something should be done with the double-coloured BlnU12 icons presently sitting in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set mixed/other colors/parallel lines. I still think currently these are unnecessary altogether, but in any case at least the naming will need to be harmonized. — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 23:44, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

U2 was replaced by red, but it could have been kept orange (just a tad lighter), as there are icons for either option, ditto for moving U9 from orange to saffron. That is a matter of wp:en’s editorial policies concerning its en:Template:Berlin U-Bahn route diagram — here in Commons we must just consider the names and colors of the icons to enable them to cover best the widest possible range of applications (of course we also use these icons in the projects; it is more a matter of swapping hats worn on the same head). -- Tuválkin ✉ 22:32, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! You are a super diligent editor and also a regexp ninja. I think that at this point the BlnU12 icons should finally be deleted—it's either that or reupload them with some non-deprecated shade of orange/red, and it seems pointless as they are unused altogether. — ⟨✆∣µzdzisław∣⚒⟩ 16:27, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Hehe, thanks. They found a home at Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set mixed/other colors/parallel lines, after a little snip. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:25, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Moscow

Messy and abandoned; from the beggining the two diagrams using this set included also icons from other sets (black, green), so it can be fully integrated, keeping no distinct name redirects and losing the separate category. (See discussion.) -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

(This is about this particular set), not other icons's use for Moscow diagrams, nor other custom made Moscow icon sets. -- Tuválkin ✉ 11:46, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Kuala Lumpur

Its whole integration (not only color shades, but filenames, geometry, and topology) is being discussed somewhere else. Seems trivial. -- Tuválkin ✉ 02:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)