Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Archive 5

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Transition to tunnel

At Talk:BSicon#TUNNELql Tuválkin wrote:

I restored [  (TUNNELql)], as also   (TUNNELqr), which had been similarly vandalized. I also uploaded their vertical equivalents, as   (TUNNELg) and   (TUNNELf). This matter brings up two questions: One of naming, another of semantics.

  • Concerning naming, these four icons present yet again a clear example how bad is having square icons with a previleged sense for vertical lines and none for horizontal lines. Using a trailing "q" as a general 90º rotation switch, as I defend, the horizontal version of these would be named simply as their vertical counterparts with said "q" appended:
    •   (TUNNELf)  (TUNNELf)  (TUNNELfq)  (TUNNELql)
    •   (TUNNELg)  (TUNNELg)  (TUNNELgq)  (TUNNELqr)
  • <...>

-- Tuválkin 23:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

At a later time, Tuválkin has expanded the Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/parallel lines/tunnel to ground with a series of new icons (apparently to compensate for overwriting   (uvTUNNELa), the previous version of which looked closer to the present   (uvTNLfa)). However, it appears that he confused "f" ("pushed forward") and "g" ("pushed backward") in the process. Cf.:   (PORTALg) (&   (ABZ3+1g)) but   (TUNNELg) &   (uvTNLga);   (PORTALf) (& the obsolete   (vHSTf legende)) but   (TUNNELf) &   (uvTNLfa). I totally support his system of "fa" vs. "fe" vs. "ga" vs. "ge", and even more do I support his   (uvTNLfa)  (uvTNLfaq), but "f" and "g" should be switched. I would also prefer slightly more "TNLaf" instead of "TNLfa" etc., and this would also facilitate renaming. So what about: Replaced TNL with tSTR, 21:04, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
  •   (uvTNLfa)  (utvSTRag)
  •   (uvTNLge)  (utvSTRef)
  •   (uexvTNLgaq)  (uextvSTRafq)
  •   (vTUNNELa-)  (tvSTRag-)
  •   (exTUNNELlu)  (extSTRaq)
  •   (uTUNNELru)  (utSTReq)
  •   (TUNNELql)  (tSTRagq)
  •   (TUNNELg)  (tSTRef)
etc. Another issue is "TUNNEL" vs. "TNLa/e" vs. "tSTRa/e". "TNL", AFAIK, has only been used in Tuválkin's uploads; the other option has long been used in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/tunnel/uw/portal, and more recently by me in   (t-STRqa) and similar. The benefit of using "tSTRa/e" system is that it allows more flexibility, e.g. we can deal with the likes of   (ABZf+l TUNNELa orange)  (ABZtgal orange); the drawback is that it can potentially conflict with other uses of "a"/"e", as I said above. So I really don't know which one is better. Opinions? YLSS (talk) 21:26, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
I’ve also been using the "tSTRa/e" convention, and I also agree that Tuválkin’s fs and gs need to be reversed. Useddenim (talk) 22:54, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that was a mess up — the single line and the double line icons are not in a agreement. I blame not enough coffee for it. Go ahead and rename. If help renaming is necessary, just ask for help and lets divide the task. -- Tuválkin 18:00, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Well, I don't usually rename things en masse just for the sake of renaming; but if I encounter one in a diagram, I will rename it. Nevertheless, what is your answer: TNLa/e or tSTRa/e? "af" or "fa"? YLSS (talk) 18:45, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
No reply received here, so I started with   (utSTRaq) &   (utSTReq). YLSS (talk) 21:04, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I guess it's ✓ Done now. YLSS (talk) 17:04, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

KRZ5/KRZ4

Shouldn't   (KRZ5-lf),   (KRZ5-rf),   (KRZ5-rg) &   (KRZ5-lg) actually be named KRZ4 to match   (KRZ4d)? Useddenim (talk) 17:53, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Symbol keep vote.svg Agree -- Tuválkin 19:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose. I consider Circeus's proposal the best option, incl.   (KRZlr+lr). YLSS (talk) 16:13, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Good point. Let me change my vote and propose this:
  •   (KRZ5-lf)  (KRZr+lr)
  •   (KRZ5-rf)  (KRZl+lr)
  •   (KRZ5-rg)  (KRZlr+r)
  •   (KRZ5-lg)  (KRZlr+l)
  •   (KRZ4d)    (KRZlr+lr)
-- Tuválkin 21:58, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

✓ Done according to Circeus's proposal. YLSS (talk) 06:47, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Parallel curves

I don't know whether this was discussed anywhere and what are the precise principles of naming such icons as   (v-STRrg),   (v-STR+l) and   (v-STR+l2), but I was never able to grasp them. So when I needed to rename the charming   (vABZxgrC+r-STR), after a lot of swearing, I settled on   (vABZgnrg+xnrf-STR). The upper branch is "nrg": narrow to the right-shifted-back; and the lower branch is "+xnrf": unused narrow from right-shifted-forward. That is, the system is:   (v-STR+lf),   (v-STR+l) and   (v-STR+lg);   (v-STRl+l) ->   (v-STRlg+lf); while   (vSTR-ABZl+l) is correctly named. I do not propose moving the existent icons (unless necessary), but for new uploads this would be quite a straightforward scheme. If the old "lf", "rf", "lg" & "rg" are not used for them, I do not foresee any conflict. YLSS (talk) 22:39, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I saw no opposition, so I (expanded and) moved the series of   (v-STRl+l) ->   (v-STRlg+lf) and   (STRl2-STR+l2) ->   (vSTRlg+lf-). YLSS (talk) 22:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

An interesting question. The current name of   (exSTRl-STR+l) is unsatisfactory due to the fact that such a name should be occupied by BSicon -STR+l.svgBSicon exSTRl-.svg . When there are two roots for parallel lines across, prefixes have to be duplicated for both... So, the icon in question can be renamed either to (exSTRl-exSTR+l) (which would be more representative for a combination of   (exSTRl-) &   (ex-STR+l), but would require some complications in galleries) or to (exSTRlg+lf), as a non-parallel version of   (exvSTRlg+lf-) &   (exv-STRlg+lf). Which one is better? YLSS (talk) 18:32, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Seems like nobody's caring, so I choose   (exSTRlg+lf) as the "main" location of these icons, with redirects from the other option. YLSS (talk) 06:46, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

✓ Done not so long ago. YLSS (talk) 17:12, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Double curves

Another long-standing mess. Currently we have:

  • in the "u" set: the complete series of   (uvSTRlf),   (uvSTRrf),   (uvSTRlg),   (uvSTRrg), with "e", "x" and "ex" variations (all 2011, Useddenim) and "t" (2012, Pi.1415926535);
  • in the "bahn" set:   (vSTRlf(!)) (2011, Tuválkin);   (vSTR+r) &   (tvSTR+r) (2012, Verminclone);   (vSTRl-STRl) &   (vSTRr-STRr) (2013, BjørnN).

The "vSTRlf"/"rf"/"lg"/"rg" names are occupied in the "bahn" set by redirects from former names of   (vSTRgl), and are very, very far away from being freed. "vSTRl" and "vSTRr" have only recently been renamed to   (SPLaq) and   (SPLeq), but are used only in some dozen pages. The most precise name for e.g.   (uvSTRlg) would be   (uvSTR+rf-STR+rg), as   (uvSTR+rf-) +   (uv-STR+rg) (as I described above). However, that would be a really long name for such a simple feature. Since we seem to have agreed that   (uvSTR+r-) +   (uv-STR+r) would rather form   (uSPL+ra) (or   (uSPLa+r)?) and not "uvSTR+r", I suppose there would be no problem to set the following pattern:   (uvSTRl),   (uvSTRr),   (uvSTR+r),   (uvSTR+l) - or would there be? YLSS (talk) 07:53, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Symbol keep vote.svg Agree. WRT BSicon uv-STR+r.svgBSicon uvSTR+r-.svg , the naming pattern so far seems to follow tracing the route top-to-bottom/left-to right. Useddenim (talk) 13:04, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
(Of course it's "a", not "e", thanks. But what's the order of suffixes: "+ra" or "a+r"? I would favour the latter. But that is another topic. YLSS (talk) 13:35, 10 December 2013 (UTC))
  (uSPLa+r): shape » direction/orientation » modification. Useddenim (talk) 04:50, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
(Ah, they are already in existence! Well, that's great. YLSS (talk) 17:05, 12 December 2013 (UTC))

Also ✓ Done. The set expanded to the utmost by Vanisaac & Useddenim. YLSS (talk) 17:12, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

With crossing

Also, I would like to draw your attention to a new peculiar series of icons introduced by BjørnN, which I have grouped under Category:Icons for railway descriptions/parallel railways/junction+crossing/double curve. Initially, I was uneasy with the fact that they use plain "l/r/+l/+r" without "f/g", but I guess that would be an excessive complication in this case. Another option I can think of is   (vABZg+l-ABZg+lu)  (vSTR+vSTR+lo) (ROOT+ROOT). Though I don't think there is really a need to rename them. YLSS (talk) 17:05, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Parallel interchange

Riddle me this: how should we name this one:   (vBHF-KBHFla)?   (vBHF-KBHFa-R),   (vBHF-R-KBHFa),   (vBHF-M-KBHFa) or even   (vBHF-M-KBHF-Ra)? YLSS (talk) 21:44, 15 November 2013 (UTC) Hm, not   (vBHF-M-KBHFa) at least, 'cause otherwise we won't be able to distinguish   (**vKBHFa-BHF-M) vs. BSicon v-STR.svgBSicon vKBHF-Ma.svg . YLSS (talk) 21:48, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

I think the best name is   (vBHF-KBHFa-R), where the "-R" sufix refers to the line at the viewers’ left (right side of the direction of travel). On the other hand,   (vBHF-R-KBHFa) should be a double-line square icon equivalent to   (dBHF-R)+  (dKBHFa). -- Tuválkin 20:36, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
OK. (Hm, I though the explanation was "continues to the right, viewed in the direction of travel"; but d'oh, to the hell with explanations...) YLSS (talk) 23:31, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

CONTrf inconsistency

I noticed that   (CONTrf) and   (lCONTrf) are inconsistent. I found this because needed an arrow to the left with its head touching the left icon edge (leaving room on the center of the icon) and had to name it   (CONTfaq). -- Tuválkin 10:19, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

And now I see it should have been better to name it   (CONTfeq) (end) instead. -- Tuválkin 10:24, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Well, we seem to be using the same prefix for "direction forward" and "shifted forward", but previously this did not seem to pose much problems, as in   (lCONTff). That said, I don't think now that I chose wisely when I named   (lCONTgf); yes, it's moved forward along the direction it's pointing to, but taken universally, it's pushed backward and should rather be   (lCONTgg). Likewise   (lCONTrf) should be   (lCONTggq) (no "l"/"r"!), and   (CONTfaq) should IMHO be   (CONTggq). About   (CONTrf) you can read here - we were unable to find a satisfactory way to name them (that is, the original naming pattern introduced by their creator is as satisfactory as all other proposals). YLSS (talk) 12:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
I've moved all my former lCONTs to new titles, with first "f"/"g" pertaining to direction (I'm uneasy with using "a"/"e" for this), and second "f"/"g" pertaining to position along the y-axis, as it is with other classes of icons. Additionally, no "l"/"r"s; and I also uploaded the series of   (lCONTfg),   (lCONTgf),   (lCONTfgq),   (lCONTgfq). These could have been named without the "l" prefix, but... that would mean deducing something about the icon which isn't really there; so legende it is. P.S. I did not touch   (lCONTl), but IMHO it should rather be   (lCONTfq).) YLSS (talk) 12:59, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Hm, another argument against using "a"/"e" for shifted forward/backward in this case: we already have a whole family of   (uCONTfa) /   (uCONTge) icons. YLSS (talk) 18:48, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

CONTinuation tail

Robot8A had uploaded a version of   (uexvCONTfgr) without the forward (upper) arrow as (uexSTRfgr) which did not really make sense; I renamed it (uexCONT-r) (to go with   (uexCONTl)) for lack of any better ideas. Useddenim (talk) 13:53, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I have renamed it to   (uexCONT+gq), that is "from back". A line thus continues from back to forward:      , (uexCONT+gq) (uexSTRq) (uexCONTfq). Current   (uexCONTfa) should likewise become   (uexCONT+g). Otherwise, the icon would have become (uexCONTfaq) – contrast Tuválkin's (CONTfaq) above (now   (CONTggq)). OK? YLSS (talk) 09:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Pretty much OK, yes. -- Tuválkin 19:39, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Platforms

  (dtSTRpr) &   (dtSTRpl) are currently unused at those titles, only via redirects from the more appropriate   (tdSTRpr) &   (tdSTRpl). However, instead of requesting them to be moved to those titles, I think it may be better to choose some others and get rid of the rogue "p" suffix (  (dSTRpr) &   (dSTRpl) are also used only sparsely). Tuválkin, I think you're the one who uploaded most of the platform icons lately; do you have any ideas better than the classic (tdSTR+BSr) & (tdSTR+BSl)? YLSS (talk) 23:45, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Create the (PFM) root (for platform—it works in most languages).
  (dSTRpr) → (dPFM-R)
  (dSTRpl) → (dPFM-L)
  (dtSTRpr) → (tdPFM-R)
  (dtSTRpl) → (tdPFM-L)
Useddenim (talk) 00:12, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
PFM looks good; I have been using PLT myself: I cannot remember if I invented it or just picked up an older use of it. Either way, it is good. -- Tuválkin 12:54, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Having thought more, I decided to keep the "classic" naming scheme here. After all, the (rail) track and the platform are quite separate objects, and not a "modification" of a simple track. I thought about something like (STR+Pl), but then... "BS" is from de:Bahnsteig, so why to invent more? Result:   (dSTR+BSl),   (dSTR+BSr),   (udSTR+BSl),   (udSTR+BSr),   (tdSTR+tBSl),   (tdSTR+tBSr),   (tdSTRe+tBSle),   (tdSTRe+tBSre). If anybody disagrees, feel free to choose some other title. YLSS (talk) 06:09, 7 May 2014 (UTC) Two new also:   (vSTR+BSm) &   (uvSTR+BSm). YLSS (talk) 08:16, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

KRX

Before I inadvertently stir up more controversy… Since (ÜWlr+rl) →   (KRX) was OK, then I suggest   (ÜWolr+url)  (KRXo) and   (ÜWolr+orl)  (KRXu) because we’re following the convention of page top-to-bottom then page left-to-right, so   (STR2+4) takes precedence over   (STR3+1). Any thoughts/objections/comments? Useddenim (talk) 00:03, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Seems to be OK. Were there any other similar cases before? YLSS (talk) 03:12, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
I agree, too. -- Tuválkin 08:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC)