Template talk:PD-URAA

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1978[edit]

I don't quite understand why this refers to "before 1978". Per Cornell, works published 1923-1977 or after 1978 are PD in the U.S. if they were published without U.S. formalities and were PD in their source country in 1996. The only difference is that after 1978 "without copyright" was enough. But without U.S. formalities implies without copyright. Superm401 - Talk 19:44, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Works created before 1978 but first published 1978 - 2002 (inclusive) are a special case in the U.S. But probably you're right and the 1978 bit could be dropped... I guess I got confused. Should probably be 1989, since works published (with © notice) in Berne Convention countries on or after March 1, 1989 were granted U.S. copyright (70 years p.m.a.) automatically as "Berne works". (See Commons:Deletion requests/Template:PD-1996... I'm more used to think about when a work is not PD under the URAA than the inverse.) Lupo 20:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree this can be confusing. But I don't see 1989 on the Cornell chart either. A work published in a Berne country 1990+ with © is indeed 70 pma, unless it was PD in 1996. But I don't think any Berne country had a less than 6 year copyright term in the 1990's, so I believe we can ignore the 1989 as well as 1978. Superm401 - Talk 20:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually, we may need to distinguish pre-1978 and post-1978, because it's possible a post-1978 work didn't comply with all formalities but did have a copyright notice. So we should have an additional case listed in the template. It could be phrased
  • it was first published outside the United States (and not published in the U.S. within 30 days) and
  • it was first published before 1978 without complying with U.S. copyright formalities or after 1978 without copyright notice and
  • it was in the public domain in its home country on the URAA date (January 1, 1996 for most countries).
--Superm401 - Talk 20:47, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Ehm, not quite yet, I think. Since the U.S. joined the Berne Convention (BC) and that treaty became effective with respect to the U.S. on March 1, 1989, foreign works published after that date were automatically granted U.S. copyright. No © notice necessary, since the BC says so. (That was wrong above.) But the U.S. refused to automatically grant copyright to works published earlier. The URAA was designed to rectify this.
So we'd get
  • it was first published outside the United States (and not published in the U.S. within 30 days) and
  • it was published before March 1, 1989, and
  • it was first published before 1978 without complying with U.S. copyright formalities or 1978 - February 28, 1989 without copyright notice and
  • it was in the public domain in its home country on the URAA date (January 1, 1996 for most countries).
Actually, Hirtle is missing one theoretically possible case for foreign works: published 1978 or later with copyright notice, but PD in its home country on the URAA date. Well, but maybe you're right: anything first published after March 1, 1989 is extremely unlikely to be PD in its home country on the URAA date, so we may just as well omit this. If you want to change the template, go ahead. Lupo 21:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I was wondering a bit about after 1978 with copyright notice, but PD in the home country in 1996. For now, I'm assuming that would be copyrighted in the U.S. I've made the 1978 change, still ignoring 1989; tell me if there are issues. Superm401 - Talk 07:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

"Or"[edit]

{{editprotected}} I really dislike copyright notices which don't specify which of the 3 copyright rationales they are claiming, since they are unclear and could make it difficult for re-users to defend the PD nature of the works. Would anybody object if I modified this template so that users could do something like {PD-URAA|reason=1}, and it would show whichever one of the 3 reasons apply? --Padraic 16:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Three? Just two: either simultaneous publication in the U.S. and elsewhere, or the conjunction of the other three points. And note: "in addition to this statement, there must be a statement on this page explaining why the work is in the public domain in the U.S. (for the first case) or why it was PD on the URAA date in its source country (second case). Additionally, there must be verifiable information about previous publications of the work." Since an explanation is required anyway, a plain {{PD-URAA}}, even with a "reason=1" parameter, is invalid. Also note that the parameter name "reason" is already taken. Lupo 20:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
If we want to divide the template in this way, it's better to have two entirely different tags. For instance {{PD-URAA-Simul}} and {{PD-1996}} (which is currently a redirect here). Superm401 - Talk 13:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I'd like to just split them. Any objections? --Padraic 21:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
It should be split. --Jarekt (talk) 12:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I created {{PD-URAA-Simul}} and {{PD-1996}}, please take a look. I'd like to mark this template as deprecated, but it's locked. As a side note, for those other "or"-haters out there, please comment at Template talk:PD-Canada, where there is the same problem. --Padraic 15:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for going ahead with this. It looks well done, except you didn't create categories; I have just done so. Now, an admin just needs to deprecate the template as you said. I've flagged this section with editprotected. Superm401 - Talk 22:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
✓ Done. I had to make minor fixes to the two other templates first. --Waldir talk 21:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks. This is a victory for clarity! --Padraic 14:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

change autocat[edit]

{{editprotected}} could somebody please change the autocat from Category:PD-URAA to Category:PD tag needs updating, so that the template can be distinguished from PD-URAA-Simul. Cheers --Cwbm (commons) (talk) 23:20, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

✓ Done --Mormegil (talk) 19:56, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{edit request}} I know that I proposed the initial category. But I think it would be better if this template had its seperate Category:PD-URAA tag needs updating as a subcategory of Category:PD tag needs updating. Because this template is not deprecated in the sense that adding it results in deletion. Cheers --Cwbm (commons) (talk) 08:02, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done, makes sense. Please go ahead and create the category. --The Evil IP address (talk) 17:37, 21 August 2011 (UTC)