Template talk:Unknown

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add parameters ?[edit]

Thousands of files from the Tropenmuseum have "niet bekend / unknown (Fotograaf/photographer)" in the author field. I suppose a bot could replace it by a multinlingual template. But I'm wondering: should an {{unknown photographer}} be created, or should a parameter be added here so that for instance we can type {{unknown|photographer}} and get "unknown photographer" ?--Zolo (talk) 08:15, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

If the media is a foto, it is self-evident that the photographer is unknown. So I think no further differentiation is needed. If there are no other objection I will change "niet bekend / unknown (Fotograaf/photographer)" to {{unknown}}. --Schlurcher (talk) 09:08, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Not an objection but a request: Please change it to {{Unknown|author}}. See here (just two days ago ;-) ). It won't make any difference for most languages, but it can add more semantical context in case some languages need this semantical context to render the word with correct grammar. --Slomox (talk) 09:17, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Sorry I dont think it is a good idea to add parameters to templates that do not support it. --Schlurcher (talk) 09:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
I put it in the documentation. Now it is supported. --Slomox (talk) 10:09, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Not the best solution, but ok. --Schlurcher (talk) 10:17, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

It says "This template can be used in the 'source' or 'author' parameters..." There's no reason the uploader should not know the source, right? Or is this talking about something else I'm not thinking of? Maybe that bit should be removed so it's not used for missing sources. Rocket000 (talk) 16:43, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

That's right. Perhaps we should run a bot, replace all instances of "|XXX={{unknown}}" with "|XXX={{unknown|XXX}}". Then we put some maintenance categories in the template so we can see which pages use "{{unknown|source}}". And then we can fix the pages, delete them for deletion if necessary or we'll know the cases where unknown sources are okay. --Slomox (talk) 16:49, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
That sounds like instruction creep. "unknown" is enough and pages can be individually checked if they look suspicious. Hekerui (talk) 16:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Have you read the original discussion? in languages with complex grammar rules it could be the case that the word corresponding to 'unknown' must use different endings when applied to immaterial object like a date than when applied to a human being like an author. --Slomox (talk) 17:07, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
That's true for German too as you know and yet it's easily correct as long as one doesn't form a sentence, and a single word should be enough for other other languages in the same manner. Hekerui (talk) 17:16, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
It works for 'en' and it works for 'de'. But there are 6000 to 7000 other languages. There will be cases where even a single word takes different suffixes for case like 'human', 'animate object', 'inanimate object', 'abstract concept' etc. --Slomox (talk) 17:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't see the problem if we plan ahead. We might not ever need it but with all the languages out there with "strange" grammar rules, it's definitely probable. So better safe than sorry; it will save a lot of work in the future. It's good habit to be semantically correct, even if the displayed result is the same for multiple contexts. Plus, it can allow us to do other things if we want, like add a category based on the parameter. Bots are the ones that will mostly be doing this extra work. You can still use {{unknown}} by itself if you think adding a single parameter is too much. Rocket000 (talk) 18:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
If you leave the source field blank there's already a missing source message. I don't think there's any reason to use {{unknown|source}}. In what case would the uploader not know where they got it from? Unless there's something I'm not thinking of, bots can probably just remove it completely from the source field. Rocket000 (talk) 17:14, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Actually, no. Slomox's idea is better. Rocket000 (talk) 17:15, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

There will be cases where even a single word takes different suffixes for case like 'human', 'animate object', 'inanimate object', 'abstract concept': indeed {{unknown|date}} should be rendered in French as "inconnue" not "inconnnu". But since the current template does not take any parameter I don't know if it is worth changing it.--Zolo (talk) 09:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Some useless stats[edit]

  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the author & artist fields → 30,113 hits
  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the date field → 20,373 hits
  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the source field → 1464 hits
  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the location field → 233 hits
  • "unknown" or "{{unknown}}" in the year field → 136 hits

-Rocket000 (talk) 20:17, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Which template are the 136 year fields from? --Slomox (talk) 20:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
{{Painting}} (same for artist field and location, the rest are both in {{information}} and {{painting}}). Rocket000 (talk) 20:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Ah, I see. 'year' is a deprecated synonym for 'date'. --Slomox (talk) 21:12, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

ru[edit]

{{Edit request}} Please change |ru=неизвестный to |ru=неизвестен, it is more correct in Russian for use in source and author fields in template {{Information}}. Sorry for bad English. --Art-top (talk) 09:08, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

  • Спасибо aka thanks! --Art-top (talk) 12:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Please change |ru=неизвестен to |ru={{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}|{{ns:6}}=неизвестен|#default=неизвестно}}. Russian language is the genitive, and when used within "Creator:" templates is better to use another option (unfortunately, only for cases where the "creator:" template used on category pages , or it is included in the gallery page, main namespace). This is a palliative, of course. --Kaganer (talk) 13:50, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I ma not sure this is a good idea. For example creator templates are used in Creator, Category and File namespaces. Why would grammar change depending on where it is used? Could you provide examples of scenarios deference forms are needed? May be switch related to first parameter ('author' or 'location') would be more useful. --Jarekt (talk) 03:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, using switch related to 'author' or 'location' parameters - is good idea. How do it? --Kaganer (talk) 21:20, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Simple, For polish version we have "|pl={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|place=nieznane|#default=nieznany}}". Russian can be done similarly, may be "|ru={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|place=неизвестно|#default=неизвестен}}"?. Then when you add a template use {{unknown|author}}, {{unknown|place}} or {{unknown|date}} form (date redirects to {{other date|unknown}}). --Jarekt (talk) 04:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Ok, but "place" do not have among the allowed values, and the documentation is only a "location". What should I use? --Kaganer (talk) 15:53, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Opps, you are correct. I changed polish version to "|pl={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|location=nieznane|author=nieznany|#default=nieznany}}". --Jarekt (talk) 18:50, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Heh ;) Maybe need check template using for incorrect values? --Kaganer (talk) 19:48, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

My final proposal:

|ru={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|location=неизвестно|author=неизвестен|#default=неизвестен}}

--Kaganer (talk) 19:48, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 03:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Malayalam[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add:

|ml=ലഭ്യമല്ല

Thank you--Praveen:talk 04:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

✓ Done --Martin H. (talk) 23:59, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

fix French grammar[edit]

Since Polish takes a parameter, please change French to: |fr={{#switch:{{{1|}}}|date=inconnue|#default=inconnu}} --Zolo (talk) 16:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

{{Unknown|date}} redirects to Unknown date. Polish & Russian versions are trying differentiate between location and author. So at the moment no changes were made. --Jarekt (talk) 18:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Oops sorry my mistake--Zolo (talk) 19:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Template broken[edit]

{{edit protected}} Please add "}}" after {{#if:{{{1|}}}|[[Category:Template:Unknown with {{{1}}}]]--Zolo (talk) 19:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

There is no use in categorizing a template by the parameter it uses. Or? Remove {{#if:{{{1|}}}|[[Category:Template:Unknown with {{{1}}}]]. --Martin H. (talk) 19:56, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Fixed. I will remove the category in a day or two after counting the options used. --Jarekt (talk) 03:31, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
still broken; displays some "{{#if:|"--Praveen:talk 05:43, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the if function, without seeing above discussion, after not hearing from Jarekt for a day. odder (talk) 08:38, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry about it but much of my part of country lost power yesterday due to snow. --Jarekt (talk) 15:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

eo[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add this line:

|eo=nekonata

. --Petrus Adamus (talk) 14:26, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done -- Common Good (talk) 18:18, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

el[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add:

|el=άγνωστος

.

--Geraki TLG 06:29, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 12:22, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

sl[edit]

{{editprotected}}

Please add this line:

|sl={{#switch:{{lc:{{{1|}}}}}|place|location=neznana|artist|author=neznan|#default=neznano}}

. --Sporti (talk) 09:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done --Jarekt (talk) 12:51, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Please, replaced #default with 'neznan', because it makes more sense. --Eleassar (t/p) 12:55, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
✓ Done--Jarekt (talk) 15:46, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

fa[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add:

|fa=نامعلوم

--Z 20:06, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

✓ Done--Zolo (talk) 08:07, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

be/be-tarask/be-x-old[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add 'невядомы' for the subj. locales. Thank you! Wizardist (talk) 21:32, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps, default language behaviour should be added as well (default=unknown). Wizardist (talk) 21:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

✓ Done (I believe when your language is not listed, the standard default behavior applies, using the fallback locales, or, ultimately, English, see e.g. with uselang=ab.) --Mormegil (talk) 15:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

uk[edit]

Please add:

|uk=невідомий

--Сергій (обг.) 09:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

✓ Done --:bdk: 19:35, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

tg[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add:

|tg=номаълум

--Z 17:00, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

✓ Done --:bdk: 19:33, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

ko translation[edit]

{{sudo}} Please add

|ko=미상

Thanks. --레비ReviD✉CM 08:57, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

✓ Done--Jarekt (talk) 19:04, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

bn[edit]

{{sudo}} Please add

|bn=অজানা

Thanks.--Aftab1995 (talk) 17:46, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

✓ Done--Jarekt (talk) 18:14, 15 April 2014 (UTC)