User talk:Gürbetaler

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Welcome to the Commons, Gürbetaler!
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Please give images better names[edit]

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I noticed you've uploaded some images and I thought I should turn your attention to a common error.

Please give uploaded images meaningful names. Otherwise they are difficult to track and it is hard to tell what the image is about without actually looking at it. I suggest you rename each image with an intuitive name that describes the image itself. Thanks, and happy editing! Christian NurtschTM 22:51, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

It is difficult to give "better names". If I call them "Swiss train" they would all have the same name. If I put the abbrevation of the railway company, you wouldn't find it helpful either. I think it is far more helpful to put these pictures in categories that help to find them. I do so and also help categorize other's pictures. Furthermore these photos are used for several articles in German and English Wikipedia and they would all loose the link, if I rename them.--Gürbetaler 10:35, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
We need MEANINGFUL names. Links are rerouted automatically with the {{rename image|new image name.jpg}} tag. Please have a look at the example I have given for meaningful names of your images. And BTW: Nice photos! --ALE! ¿…? 22:02, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing those wheel arrangement categorizations[edit]

I'd clearly misinterpreted a photo and got the arrangement wrong. Thanks for fixing! Morven 00:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Image:Navizence Station Haaksbergen.jpg[edit]

I finally answered your question on my discussion page. Tubantia 22:45, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


Please give images better names[edit]

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I noticed you've uploaded some images and I thought I should turn your attention to a common error.

Please give uploaded images meaningful names. Otherwise they are difficult to track and it is hard to tell what the image is about without actually looking at it. I suggest you rename each image with an intuitive name that describes the image itself. Thanks, and happy editing! ALE! ¿…? 22:01, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

File names are filenames and categories are categories and descriptors are descriptors. It isn't a good idea to mix it all up. Why should I name a picture, that contains, clearly visible on the thumbnail, a panoramic coach with "panoramic coach"? I spend much time to categorize correctly my pictures and many pictures of others. That's much more helpful than renaming files without a clear concept. For me, the coach number and perhaps the owner is important, for another user it is important to know what coach it is, the next one wants to know the builder and the last one is only interested in location and date. So, for whom of all these lovely people should I decide? I have made my decision: helpful categories, correct captions, if possible in several languages, and the file name remains what it was on my computer.- Gürbetaler 19:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Image:2007 07 01 vivat viadukt 27.jpg‎ und weitere Bilder[edit]

Hallo, danke für die Korrekturen bei der Einordnung in passende Kategorien. Ich war mir da doch sehr unsicher und hatte schon user:Gunnar1m um Hilfe gebeten, der sich das ansehen wollte. Gruß, --R. Engelhardt (talk) 22:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Bitte. Ich bin zufällig drauf gestossen, weil ich von Zeit zu Zeit die Hauptkategorien anschaue. Dort hat es meistens Bilder, die eine genauere Kategorie als z.B. "Trains" verdient haben. Man sollte in der Regel so viel wie möglich länderspezifisch einordnen, ausgehend z.B. von Category:Rail transport in Germany. Dann einfach auf die + klicken ... -- Gürbetaler (talk) 23:04, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Preempt sorting[edit]

Hello Gürbetaler - thank you for your large amounts of work in the railway cats - but can I ask you please to not remove preempt sorting? There are a few types of subcategories that are intentionally at the very front of any category. These include mainly "Category:X by Y" "Categoy:X in X", where this category using the "by" or "in" descriptor is moved to the very start of the category listing - i.e. "Category:Rail transport by motive power" goes to the start of "Category rail transport". As you can see, this is not an arbitrary choice, but a relatively simply rule for the "in" and by" subcategories.

This is used everywhere on Commons (just look at the "by country" categories, or the subcategories of "vehicles" - so please do not undo these. This should be consistent to help users find the most important subcategories. Thank you. Ingolfson (talk) 01:05, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't find time for Commons a few days. I am very much aware of the usefulness of preempt sorting and I have done it in many places. But in the Rail transport category we have a total of only 28 categories but you have put 9 or one third before the A. We have 26 letters and the letters do help finding categories. But having one third before the alphabetical sort and only two thirds within doesn't help the user. Furthermore, your choice isn't logic, why should "Rail transport in art" be a more important category than Rolling stock? I think preempt sorting should only be used when it really helps to structure and in Rail transport it doesn't.Gürbetaler (talk) 00:55, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Rail cars / Rail bus[edit]

Hi - in case you aren't watching the page, I have made a comment and a compromise proposal. Cheers and happy editing. Ingolfson (talk) 05:21, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Commons:Categories for discussion/Current requests/2009/01/Category:Railways[edit]

Hi Gürbetaler - thanks for your comments, I have responded on the page. Basically, I am hoping we can get agreement that having the OPTION of functional categorisation (passenger, freight, military...) is preferable to having no ability to categorise rail transport in this way / preferable to having everybody make up his own function structure / preferable to have people add less overarching cats like "freight train" to an image. To avoid that is why I would like to include this matter in the category scheme. As for the "railways" issue, I agree fully with you. Ingolfson (talk) 06:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

These two categories appear to be the same: "Narrow gauge railways in the United States":"Miniature railways in the United States" Rklawton (talk) 16:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Narrow gauge stands for anything smaller than 4'8½" while "miniature railway" stands for gauges not normally exceeding 50 cm or about 1'8". Miniature railways mostly go with models of standard gauge locomotives, e.g. in 1:3 scale.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 16:24, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


Category:KTX[edit]

Commons-emblem-issue.svg Category:KTX has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

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--Peremen (talk) 15:16, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


Category:Driving railway coaches[edit]

Category discussion notification Category:Driving railway coaches has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.
In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

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--ŠJů (talk) 20:07, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

R/r[edit]

Isn't some mistake that the Category:Multiple units, motor coaches and Railcars by country don't take name Category:Multiple units, motor coaches and railcars by country? I think, "railcar" isn't a proper noun. --ŠJů (talk) 23:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Sure, you are right. I was mislead by the Category:Railcars (self-propelled)... Gürbetaler (talk) 19:03, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I did a rename request at User talk:CommonsDelinker/commands. --ŠJů (talk) 19:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Categories[edit]

Hallo Gürbetaler:
Ich habe gerade neue Bilder hochgeladen (s. Galerie "Gotthardbahn", Excursions). Als ich dann so anfangen wollte, richtig zu kategorisieren, fand ich natürlich das Chaos wieder vor. Du hast mich ja auch schon darauf hingewiesen. Es gibt bei den Eisenbahnen sicher ein paar Paralleluniversen bei den Kategorien, und zwar weltweit.
Ist aber eine Sisiphusarbeit. Ich könnte mich sicher mal darum kümmern, aber erst, wenn ich 2016 pensioniert bin. Inzwischen denke ich, dass wir damit leben müssen.
Herzliche Grüsse --Lord Koxinga (talk) 21:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Schreibe Deinen Kommentar einfach hier oder auf meine Diskussionsseite --Lord Koxinga (talk) 21:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Das Gesamtchaos bringen wir nicht so schnell weg, aber mit einer minimalen Logik können wir verhindern, dass es noch chaotischer wird... Eine möglichst zutreffende Kategorie, die man dann verschiedenen Hauptkategorien zuordnen kann, ist m.E. derzeit der beste Weg. Diesbezüglich habe ich aber ein Problem: "Gotthardbahn" ist einerseits ein ehemaliges Bahnunternehmen, andererseits eine heutige Eisenbahnstrecke. Sollte man die zwei nicht unterscheiden? Z.B.
  • Gotthardbahn
  • Gotthard line
  • Gotthard Rail Tunnel
  • Gotthard Base Tunnel
Gürbetaler (talk) 11:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Hallo Gürbetaler:
Danke für den Eintrag. Ich denke, Deine Aufteilung ist ein guter erster Ansatz. Leider bin ich im Moment beruflich ziemlich beschäftigt. Deshalb kann ich mich im Moment nicht darum kümmern.
Das gleiche Chaos haben wir übrigens, bezogen auf Eisenbahnen, auch in den Wikipedia Seiten, wo ich – vor Allem in Deutsch, aber auch ein wenig in Englisch – unterwegs bin. Ich denke aber, dass es im Moment einfach wichtig ist, viele gescheite Links anzubieten, damit solche Seiten gefunden werden können. Ich denke, da hilft es auch, wenn der User auf seiner eigenen Seite diese Links zeigt, wenn es sich um seine Einträge handelt. Ich klicke mich sehr viel über die History von Einträgen zu einzelnen Usern, um einen Background zu bekommen.
Im Übrigen:
Machen wir weiter so. Unsere Kinder (meine zwei Söhne machen das schon) sind froh, dass es heute eine so einfache Quelle gibt, um an Informationen für die Ausbildung zu gelangen.
--Lord Koxinga (talk) 21:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


Category:Narrow gauge railway lines[edit]

Category discussion notification Category:Narrow gauge railway lines has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.
In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

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--ŠJů (talk) 15:28, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Category:Industrial rail transport[edit]

Category discussion notification Category:Industrial rail transport has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.
In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

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--ŠJů (talk) 15:28, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Railbus vs Railcar dilemma[edit]

Hey Gürbetaler, how you doing, I have recently given my opinion on Category:Rolling stock discussion page! I hope i´ve made sence, Category:Rolling stock looking good by the way, i will review it and give my thoughts again shortly.

Now i need for you to give your insight in the discussion on the Railbus discusion page on whether Railbuses and Railcars are the same thing and if they should be separate articles or not, the article still needs to be polished for better clarity, i will also be adding data on the obscure and vague information on the development of Railbuses in Latin America, cheers ∞ Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 18:47, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

SBB Bt[edit]

Hallo (mein Deustsch ist nicht sehr gut, entschuldigung)

You proposed to rename File:SBB Bt.JPG in SBB BDt EW2.JPG. I will do it but before could you give a little description explaining what SBB means ? Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 11:20, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

SBB is the name of the railway company (abbrevation for Schweizerische Bundesbahnen), see the category where the picture is placed: Category:Rolling stock of SBB-CFF-FFS. BDt is the type designation of the coach depicted and EW2 identifies it as a Swiss Mark II coach.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 22:24, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, hanx, done. Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 07:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


Category:Railway lines[edit]

Category discussion notification Category:Railway lines has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss ways in which it should be changed. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for discussion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.
In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

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--ŠJů (talk) 21:31, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Note[edit]

Hello. I just wanted to inform you that I have given you Autopatrolled rights. This does not affect your editing, but makes it easier for users watching Special:RecentChanges to find unhelpful edits. Regards, –Juliancolton | Talk 13:00, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for this info.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 23:39, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

New Category: Railbuses[edit]

Hello Gürbetaler, just to inform that I've taken the liverty and added a much needed new cat → Category:Railbuses, for better clarity on the subject. I also believe that all Railcars that are called Railbuses by manufacturers and enterprises should be directed to → Category:Railcars (self-propelled), (aka Triebwagen), for example Coche Motor Ferrostaal (FCOSA) 01 is called “Ferrobus” by Ferroviaria Oriental when is is really a Railcar (Automotor or Coche Motor in Spanish), even though it is single engine diesel powered. I do understand that there may be some overlapping on the subject. Some corrections and adjustments may be necessary in existing Categories data and Wikipedia articles of corresponding subject-matter. Please go over it and let me know your thoughts, kindly, Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 23:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Category:Brussels metro vs. Category:Metro of Brussels -- Why?[edit]

Back in Oct 2009, you created the category Category:Brussels metro, as a supercategory of the existing Category:Metro of Brussels -- but you didn't give any explanation of why. I don't understand what the intended distinction is, and since there are only three images currently in the category, I've nominated it at CfD. JesseW (talk) 21:30, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

That's true, I should better comment the things I do. Sorry. - Looking at Metro categories I found that the standard is to name it (just a few examples) Saint Petersburg Metro, Prague Metro, Paris metro (and Paris RER), Munich U-Bahn, Lille Metro etc. Thus I think it would be better to keep Category:Brussels metro rather than Category:Metro of Brussels.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 23:02, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

File:Brig Bahnhofplatz Okt 2005.jpg[edit]

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There seems to be a problem regarding the description and/or licensing of this particular file. It has been found that you've added in the image's description only a Template that's not a license and although it provides useful information about the image, it's not a valid license. Could you please resolve this problem, adding the license in the image linked above? You can edit the description page and change the text. Uploading a new version of the file does not change the description of the file. This page may give you more hints on which license to choose. Thank you.

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Zwei schliessende geschweifte Klammern haben gefehlt, nicht die Lizenz. Korrigiert.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 23:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Railcars[edit]

Hi. As I can see, you reverted some of my edits aiming for simplification and cleaning of category structure of motorcars.

I understand you try to distinguish motorcars more precisely by type. However, I doubt that we can be able to find universal distinguishing criteria usable for all countries and compatible with their local traditions. We have three or even four sets of categories (railcars - motor coaches - railbuses - multiple units) combined with three types of propulsion (diesel, electric, steam). However, the distinction between railbuses, motor coaches and railcars and their definitions seems to very vary by country (and they are not really distinguished and distinguishable in some countries). It is unsustainable to maintain such complicated and unclear category tree and prevent its inconsistencies and duplicities etc. Do you have some proposal how to solve the situation? Do we have hope to advance through some new discussion? --ŠJů (talk) 15:23, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes I have a proposition and have started earlier with the the main categories. I introduced Category:Multiple units, motor coaches and railcars by country which prevents you and me to have to decide if it's the one or the other. Now in a first step we could rename all collecting categories to (example) Category:Electric multiple units, motor coaches and railcars by country. After that it could be discussed which country categories should be put together to (example) Category:Electric multiple units, motor coaches and railcars of Spain.
I can add that for German speaking countries the problem exists as well. Triebzug is one variety of Triebwagen but most vehicles are just called Triebwagen. A two-car unit is a Doppeltriebwagen and an articulated EUM is mostly a Gelenktriebwagen and not (but also correct) a Gelenktriebzug. For the distinction between motor coach and EMU in Switzerland I used the principle that all motor coaches with only one cab (thus always needing a driving trailer) are categorized EMU. But that's just an assumption, there is no official rule. And there are hundreds of two-cab motor coaches which are sometimes used like a locomotive and then again in multiple unit with more motor coaches and driving trailers, typical example Category:SBB RBe 540 -- Gürbetaler (talk) 20:53, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
In the Czech Republic, we can easily distinguish stable multiple units (which include articulated vehicles) and motor coaches (which include railcars, railbuses etc.). However, some trains with motor car and controll car can be comprehended as multiple units also, even they are more variable (the count of inserted trailer cars is not stable and the motor car can be used separately). The distinction between railway coaches, railcars and railbuses have no tradition here (those all are called "motorový vůz"). The only type which was not designed to be able to pull train (and have no couplers) was en:Slovenská strela (en:ČSD Class M 290.0). However, I think, it is not a typical light "railbus". I tend to group all types of motor cars together with railbuses and motor coaches, and to separate multiple units only. However, some newest type families have simple, double and triple variants of identic type and it seems to be strained to separate them. --ŠJů (talk) 18:48, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Interlaken Ost[edit]

Erm ... why do you think this locomotive was not photographed at Interlaken Ost? The Flickr description states that, and also clicking on the geocoding I cannot find a place called Spiez. If this was de.WP, I would revert commenting Belege fehlen ... |FDMS (WP: en, de) 01:00, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Ich wohne in der Gegend und es gibt Dinge, die erkennt man, wo sie sein können und wo nicht. In Interlaken Ost gibt und gab es rund um den Bahnhof nirgends einen Hang an dem oben Häuser stehen, es ist dort ziemlich flach und hinter den Normalspurgleisen ist der Schifffahrtskanal. Würde man vom Schifffahrtskanal her schauen, hätte es hinter den Normalspurgleisen noch die Gleise und Perrons der beiden Schmalspurbahnen (Brünigbahn und BOB). Aber einen Hang hat es dort auch nicht und schon gar nicht einen mit Häusern oben dran. Dazu kommt noch, dass die Ae 6/8 in der Regel nicht nach Interlaken fuhren, sondern am Lötschberg eingesetzt waren, also eben auf der Strecke Bern–Spiez–Brig. Und in Spiez hat es tatsächlich einen Hang hinter dem Bahnhof, der ist zwar beim Umbau zum Teil einer Mauer gewichen, aber grundsätzlich stimmt die Situation für Spiez und das angegebene Aufnahmejahr. Der Fotograf hat sich beim Beschriften der Fotos zu Hause schlicht und ergreifend geirrt. Da war er nicht der erste und er wird nicht der letzte sein, zumal GPS noch nicht zur Standardausrüstung jeder Kamera gehört. Der Beleg ist die Foto selbst.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 23:14, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
Danke für die Erklärung, klingt (und ist) überzeugend. |FDMS (WP: en, de) 00:53, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Ich habe heute in Spiez (zwischen zwei Zügen) kurz nach oben geschaut, das Haus steht noch. Ich werde noch eine Foto davon hochladen, der Standort Spiez ist damit gesichert.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 20:05, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Dankeschön. Sehr hübsche Gegend! |FDMS (WP: en, de) 20:39, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Absolut eindeutig, sogar die Vorhänge sind scheinbar gleich geblieben. Außerdem interessanter Vergleich, ich würde ihn jedoch nicht in die Bahnhofskategorie setzen ... |FDMS (WP: en, de) 22:54, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
sondern in welche Kat?-- Gürbetaler (talk) 22:57, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Ich hätte die Bahnhofskategorie rausgenommen und die Vergleichskategorie rein. Spiez hätte meiner Meinung nach bleiben können. |FDMS (WP: en, de) 16:19, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Wenn du es anders besser findest, kannst du es ja noch ändern.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 22:52, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Indexing subcategories correctly[edit]

Subcategories that are dedicated to representations of the subject in e.g videos, art, sound, documents and logos (as opposed to those dealing with actual elements or behavior of the topic) are indexed as a separate sort group (second-top, mostly) and not by their default alphabetic key. So this edit is incorrect. Thanks. Cheerz. Orrlingtalk 20:10, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Would you be so kind and point me to a place where this "rule" can be found? It doesn't really make the subcategory tree easier to read!-- Gürbetaler (talk) 20:17, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes it does. There's quite much sense in setting aside entries that don't concern the actual topic, in a fashion that allows alphabetically-listing only those that deal with the topic itself - it's how indexing is actually made here. For example: Category:Fish in art, Category:Christmas in art.. It essentially echoes the fact that "Rail transport in art" is not in one line with e.g Rail transport companies and History of rail transport. Orrlingtalk 20:54, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
While I understand the difference you want to make, I don't see this as a general rule and other views are possible. Usually on Wiki, different views are discussed and a consensus is sought. I would still be interested to know if such a consensus was found and if yes, where.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 21:20, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
This is the policy here. That is, how things are done since very long, with a very wide acceptance, which evidently indicates some form of concensus. Using one top group for "X by Y" (metacat) subcats, and another for "X in art/maps/quality images/photographs of/audio" etc., is one of the very basics of category display management, which I personally agree with. In case you don't, you can of course open it for discussion at the Village Pump. Let me know. Orrlingtalk 22:03, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Dateinamen[edit]

Hallo Gürbetaler; erstmal vielen Dank für deine wertvollen Beiträge! Du lädtst allerdings manchmal Fotos mit nicht gerade aussagekräftigen Namen hoch... wie File:20060909S047 8.jpg, darunter kann man sich ja nicht viel vorstellen ;-) - aufgefallen ist mir das gerade in Category:Stansstad railway station. Das sind ältere Uploads, aber wie ich sehe, machst du das immer noch gelegentlich, aktuelles Beispiel: File:20110703Y347 231.jpg. Ich würde gerne mal zumindest die Fotos in der Stansstad-Kategorie umbenennen, was würdest du von einem Schema wie "Stansstad railway station September 2006 01" etc. halten? Gestumblindi (talk) 23:54, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Manchmal vergesse ich beim Upload noch den Namen anzupassen, und dann kann ich es halt nicht mehr ändern, ausser jemand gäbe mir die Umbenennungsrechte... Generell lade ich meine Fotos mit deutschen Titeln hoch und stelle in der Regel die Bahn und die Fahrzeugnummer auch dazu. Ich mache zu Stansstad mal Vorschläge.-- Gürbetaler (talk) 22:13, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Vielen Dank für die Vorschläge; wie ich sehe, hat Marcus Cyron sich darum gekümmert :-) Gestumblindi (talk) 21:36, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Ich wäre auch für Vorschläge für deine Aufnahmen in der Category:St. Gallen railway station dankbar, hier oder per template …    FDMS  4    07:58, 3 April 2014 (UTC)