User talk:Maxima m

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Contents 1 Image:BSicon texHST.svg 2 Please link images 3 File:BSicon ENDEa+BSl.svg 4 File:BSicon eENDEa+BSa.svg 5 BSicon*.svg 6 new set of icons 7 tired ...

[edit] Image:BSicon texHST.svg

"Image:BSicon texHST.svg" is about to be deleted, use Image:BSicon extHST.svg () instead. Axpde (talk) 22:33, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I changed

style="fill:#d77f7e; stroke:none"

to

fill="rgb(215, 127, 126)" stroke="none"

, and it seems OK now. Don't know why, though... ;-) - Erik Baas (talk) 14:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much. Just now I was going to change to

 <g 
   style="
   fill:#d77f7e;
   stroke:none" >
 <circle cx="250" cy="250" r="100" />
 </g>

and I hoped it would be OK. SVG Viwer of Adobe shows all versions as I wanted, though, and sigh.--Maxima m (talk) 15:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Firefox (2 and 3) also displayed the icon the right way. In the mean time I found out what the problem was: line breaks are not allowed in "style"... See Image:BSicon TEST.svg, it has 5 circles:

• first circle is before the path
• 2nd is the same as in the original file
• 3rd has "style" on one line
• 4th has a semicolon after "stroke:none"
• 5th has "style" on one line and a semicolon after "stroke:none"

3 and 5 are handled okay, the others don't

- Erik Baas (talk) 16:09, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanx a lot, you wizard. Though Mediaiki shows 3 black and 2 pink circles, IE + SVG Viewer, NN + SVG Viewer display the same 5 correct cooloured circles. I will code as you showed above next svg file. --Maxima m (talk) 13:46, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please link images

BotMultichillT (talk) 06:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• Image:BSicon HUB26lf.svg is uncategorized since 31 December 2008. BotMultichillT (talk) 06:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
• Image:BSicon HUB26lg.svg is uncategorized since 31 December 2008. BotMultichillT (talk) 06:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
• Image:Sakai Hankai.jpg was uncategorized on 6 September 2009.
• Image:E Morell Engineer-in-Chief.jpg was uncategorized on 6 September 2009.

[edit] File:BSicon ENDEa+BSl.svg

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There seems to be a problem regarding the description and/or licensing of this particular file. It has been found that you've added in the image's description only a Template that's not a license and although it provides useful informations about the image, it's not a valid license. Could you please resolve this problem, adding the license in the image linked above? You can edit the description page and change the text. Uploading a new version of the file does not change the description of the file. This page may give you more hints on which license to choose. Thank you.

This message was added automatically by Sz-iwbot, if you need some help about it, ask its master (Sz-iwbot (talk)) or go to the Commons:Help desk. --Sz-iwbot (talk) 05:46, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] File:BSicon eENDEa+BSa.svg

Български | Česky | Deutsch | Ελληνικά | English | Español | Suomi | Français | Italiano | Македонски | Nederlands | Polski | Português | Svenska | ‪中文(简体)‬ | ‪中文(繁體)‬ | +/−

---

There seems to be a problem regarding the description and/or licensing of this particular file. It has been found that you've added in the image's description only a Template that's not a license and although it provides useful informations about the image, it's not a valid license. Could you please resolve this problem, adding the license in the image linked above? You can edit the description page and change the text. Uploading a new version of the file does not change the description of the file. This page may give you more hints on which license to choose. Thank you.

This message was added automatically by Sz-iwbot, if you need some help about it, ask its master (Sz-iwbot (talk)) or go to the Commons:Help desk. --Sz-iwbot (talk) 04:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] BSicon*.svg

Why did you move uÜWclro, uÜWcrou, uÜWclou and uÜWclru to Category:Obsolete ? - Erik Baas (talk) 01:38, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

The icons were created and named without disussions nor announcements to us in JAWP, by a Japanese. And if we follow the German naming convention, they should be cbo, cbu and alike, or under new naming, c14, c23... We should have asked in DE. Anyway, I do not think their names are correct. I do not want to change icon IDs in numerous pages of foreign languages. After giving proper names and cleaning up links (in JA), I am going to nominate them for move. I think file move has implemented. (I have another question, concerning KRW, but it will be made probably in NL) Maxima m (talk) 09:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

OK, I see. But I can't seem to find the ones with the right names ! - Erik Baas (talk) 13:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

My suggetion: clro → c14 (1st and 4th quadrant corner), crou → c12, clou → c34 and clru → c23.

My goal: Any of the eight main directions get a single char to be identified with, going clockwise starting with 12 o'clock: e (end), 1 (1st quadrant), l (left driving direction), 2 (2nd quadrant), a (start), 3 (3rd quadrant), r (right driving direction), 4 (4th quadrant). Bye! axp_de^Hello! 07:22, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanx, axpde. I copied your answer to ja:Wikipedia‐ノート:経路図テンプレート/鉄道用ピクトグラム一覧. The creator of the icons has suggested the same names recently.

And axpde, don't you have plan to make horizontal ÜW icons, such as one from left to right upper corner? We want to use them, but as Japanese we do not understand the way to name them in German way. Maxima m (talk) 10:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you want to introduce any connection possible (eight points: upper middle, upper right, right middle, lower right, lower middle, lower left, left middle, upper left), we'll into big trouble finding consistent names. Have to think about that a bit more ... :-} axp_de^Hello! 12:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, how about using stubbornly STR, suffixing directions in your way above? would be STRe2 and STR4a, if my understanding of your idea be correct. For non German speakers, without umlaut is also a welcome :-) Maxima m (talk) 08:28, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

This system has another merit. File:BSicon OBLIQ1.svg OBLIQ1 and ÜWolr bear quite, quite strange names, but they will be no doubt STR24, or STR42. Maxima m (talk) 08:36, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

No, I created the OBLIQ w/o noticing there was other users have come up with a more complete set. OBLIQ is purely for testing purpose and soon should be obsoleted. IMO, the corner set such as 0077 can be replaced by ÜWcru , see my sandbox diagram: en:user:sameboat/sandbox#UW. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 09:20, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, 同舟 (Sameboat). I was unable to understand the ID OBLIQ1 is tentative, and have presumed that icon was going to be released for use as with the present name permanently. :::To avoid suh confusion we in JA are discussing to use BSicon 5####.svg or BSicon 3####.svg for discussion or testing, like NL user Erik Baas is using BSicon 0###.svg. In this way no one think the ID is fixed.

Yes, oblique (or diagonal?) lines are going to be needed in EN and JA manner, though DE refused to use such. See de:Wikipedia Diskussion:Formatvorlage Bahnstrecke. The shape of yours is identical with JA user's one. One thing to regret is JA user have not asked, discussed nor informed to upload files with the current names, thus thir name seem nonsense. He does not understand English, which is apparent from uploading files in the categories Icons for railway descriptions/obsolete and /Bilderkatalog. Anyway, a nice ID is welcome. Maxima m (talk) 13:23, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

DE users rarely use the ÜW set due to their minimalism, though it surprises me that this set was actually brought up by Axp. It would be grateful you notice us in EN project page. But I guess most EN users would not really mind accepting this set of icons. I support the new naming rule for ÜW set. The diacritic letter Ü upsets me so much that everytime I use it I must copy and paste rather than simply type it. We may ask en:user:ChrisDHDR for bot renaming procedure. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 16:27, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

You might have mentioned, that the inventors of BSicons wanted to keep it smart and simple, and the character 'Ü' is on every German keyboard ... same with BRÜCKE, which has a BRUECKE redirecting to it. Why not creating UEW redirects and everyone is happy?!?

Btw. talking about "upsets me so much", I don't think it's useful to have Japanese headlines on commons (instead of "== Summary ==" and so on), or any other non-english character outside the {{ja}}-template! axp_de^Hello! 17:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Diacritic letters do not exist on OUR keyboards. What are you talking of mutual respect by creating such problematic file name for your DE users' pleasure and required to redeem by creating all the stupid redirects again and again? And what's the point of renaming the KBF set to KBHF? Both names never make sense to any users other than DE. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 00:01, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

1: You can type any character by typing the ASCII-code, for example pressing Alt+0220 gives "Ü"; see Windows' "Character Map" for a complete list of codes.

2: I don't really like (or understand) the naming system either, but: there is some logic in there, it has existed for a long time now, and I really wouldn't want to rename all 4500⁺ (!!) icons, so please leave it the way it is. - Erik Baas (talk) 01:08, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Great. Everyone can justify the use of these diacritic letters in the file name because they can be typed anyway or they exist on the keyboard of a small group of users. It is so rightous to ignore what's the trouble that these letters caused to other users who have no knowledge about them at all. I mean, stop using the diacritic letters, if you want them so badly you should create the diacritic redirect to the non-diacritic file in the first place! -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:52, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Look, the problem with the diacritic characters is as big for me as it is for you (there's no "Ü" on my keyboard either), and I don't need them so badly, but I think we have to accept the fact that these files exist, and create redirects when needed, it's as simple as that. - Erik Baas (talk) 03:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

The biggest mess about BSicons is – you already named it – people from all over the world create new icons, but don't follow the original naming convention naming those. If an icon with the contrived name already exists, they just attach a number (in most cases "2"), regardless whether those two icons are sophistically comparable. I'd really like to see 1-4 used just to address the corners of the four quadrants, "1" instead of "ro" or "lf" or whatever, "2" instead of "ru" or "rg" and so on ...

Another big problem is the missorientation of many icons regardings left and rright. The original naming convenction as well as the svg-icons itself start at the the top (where x=0) facing to the bottom (where x=500). Therefore the "l" denoted the right hand sight from the viewer's point and "r" the left hand side. This isn't observed by many editors, too!

One question remains: How do we name the top and bottom centered points?

• t is heavily used to denote tunnel tracks, so the t for top is impossible!
• u is heavily used to denote either underground or underneath tracks, a third meaning (up) is unthinkable!
• d and b are used as prefixes for slender (dünn) or broad (breit), a second meaning is not impossible but still not the best choice. Furthermore "bottom" or "down" only refer to the icons itself, not for the track they display!
• The a usually stands for start (in German Anfang), the e for end (in German Ende), as seen in (KBHFa) and (KBHFe), thus a would denote the bottom, e the top of the icon ... I'm not very happy with that, because actually there aren't any tracks starting or ending! :(
• Branching icons use f or g to denote which direction is used, forward driving direction (in German Fahrtrichtung) or "against" driving direction (in German Gegenrichtung). So could be STR2f in the same manner as is STRlf. But is STRlg, and then left is right and up is down. Now ... is STR2g correspondingly or STR4g (absolutely named)?!? Although following the original naming convention I'm not happy with this, too, because of the confusion this naming style results.
• I'd favor this: Use g for straight (in German geradeaus) – only if it's not clear, esp. with braching icons – and drop f completely. STRlg will be STR+r with the +-sign denoting "from". I thought about using f to indicate from, but then the confusion would be dramatical, mixing icons named classical or new ;-)

Viewer's point left center right top 4 ? 1 middle r ell bottom 3 ? 2	STRr STR3 STR STR2 STRl STRr+1 STR3+1 STR2+4 STRl+4 STRq STRq STR2+r STR2+4 STR3+1 STR3+r STR+r STR+4 STR STR+1 STR+l
STRl+r STR2 STRl STR2+r STR2+4 STRl+4 STR+r STR+4 STRl+r	STRr STR3 STRr+l STRr+1 STR3+1 STR3+r STRr+l STR+1 STR+l

What do you think, looks quite consistently to me, we could even drop the "+" with the numbers!

P.S.: Why does class="float-right" not work here? axp_de^Hello! 17:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, everyone icon creators. I would suggest we move (w/ or w/o copying+pasting) to a more proper and open to public page to discuss on, though I am pleased to offer in my talk page such an opportunity of considering file names. The outline of this discussion shows that we from several projects multilingually have needed such an occasion in a certain period. Here in my talk page only persons who are watching this page have noticed, but this isuue be known to more users.

PS1a > axpde 17:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC), I do not understand your words "I don't think it's useful to have Japanese headlines on commons..." I have not used Japanese character here in this page, except only for user name. You mention BotMultichillT (talk) 06:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)? Sorry, no way to avoid that.

PS1b > axpde 17:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC), class="float-right" does not work in Ja neither. It might be DE local.

PS2 > Sameboat, you can type for Ü as Ü or Ü. This does not depend on OS (Win, Mac, Linux, BSD...), but is translated (interpreted?) by MediaWiki server and your IE, Mozilla, FireFox, or any. Find other combinations for diacritics and ligatures (ō, Ō, ū, Á, œ, ß...) as "entity reference" or "reference entity" or something. A kindhearted Japanese user who transplanted ALL BS templates to JA from EN made template to avoid usign umlaut in this way: {{BS-bridge|ex|}} translates exBRÜCKE. Maxima m (talk) 05:27, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Move: Ack!

PS1a: Can't remember where I saw those unreadable headlines etc. ... changed many of those. Maybe the coder of the bot drops adding headlines in other languages than english?

PS2: Those entities are as old as the "world wide web" itself. You might know, it was invented at the CERN in the very middle of Europe, so they dealed with different type sets from the very beginning!

axp_de^Hello! 10:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: I've found an icon description with non-latin headline: File:BSicon eABZrfg.svg, uploaded by user:Kyube. axp_de^Hello! 17:51, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, I will tell him Japanese characters are not welcome. Maxima m (talk) 10:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for your showing own issues. Sameboat told problems for non-German speakers. Erik Baas showed large scale change of ID affects a lot. Axpde wrote the keys of hidden (for non-DE) conventions and proposal for any directions. Before our moving elsewhere, let me tell you our failure and my issue. Because of no relevant documentation for naming convention found (nor made?), we have failed to stop strange file names. No? For nomenclature, I've asked twice in DE ( and ), once in NL (horizontal ), but only one suggestion given (). And what will be the extent of name changes from tex to ext, XX-ELEV to hXX, KBF to KBHF? Will texABZlf, ABZlf-ELEV, uKBFa be left for several months? Editing only for fixing ID is exhausting and resource wasting, of course for all. Maxima m (talk) 07:13, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

If I remember correctly I suggested STR+BSx, made my thoughts on the multipoint connecting ÜW-tracks (though others were faster but ... well, now it's quite a mess :( – but for that KRWl icon, we already have such an icon on de-WP for over one year: de:File:BSicon ÜSTdl.svg! Ok, again it's an Umlaut in it (from Überleitstelle), but again a redirect UEST should do it! axp_de^Hello! 10:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it was you that showed STR+BSlr. Thanx a lot, now we are using them numerous pages. Maxima m (talk) 10:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I have not noticed similar issue is going on by members above signed, but I found recently Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template. Moving to EN? Maxima m (talk) 10:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

That talk page doesn't exist (here), I think you talked about en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template, right? I'll have a look what topics are discussed there! Thanks & Bye axp_de^Hello!

#sigh# I just remembered why I have en-WP. de-WP invented BSicons, but they want to make the rules, but fail not finding any concensus, but they wanne stop me when trying to expand the original german system. I know about the Umlaut-problem and will install ways to work around, but I'm not willing to change the whole naming system to fully match english vocabulary. If they wanne do so, move on, but don't use the general prefix "BSicon", BS = Bahnstrecke is German, too ;-)

Let's stay here, I invented the ÜW-icons, you invented new ways to integrate them into more complex diagrams, if we both find a consistent system of icons/names, they'll have to take what we built :) axp_de^Hello! 17:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I noticed the page I wrote did (and does) not exist, so I thought I added :en:, but it dropped somehow. I was talking to someone off screen then, that's why. Yes I meant in EN.

My suggestion and your completion lead new system which can complete ALL directions. Right? STR12, STR 23 can be imagined, but I think they are pratically no use. A Japanese-speaking user (I do not want call him "colleague" nor "fellow". I am tired of him.), uploading several tens of icons is awaiting, I hope, proper names, if any.

ABZ can use this system. ÜWol will be ABZ2, and alike. Great probability.

The is my creation. I failed to notice any comment on it until this week, if you're still in need of the horizontal variety I'll be happy to make it. Wiebevl (talk) 14:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

@Wiebevl, my reply is here. Maxima m (talk) 02:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Recently I've created the simple Category:Icons for railway descriptions/walkway icons (the intention is explained in the category page.) I know the naming isn't good enough and actually I prefer the 1~4 numeric naming rule pruposed in the middle of this discussion. Please suggest. Thx. (p.s. I think I will create more diagonal lines that cross or stop at the middle, but I find no suitable example in the new naming rule.) -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 00:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] new set of icons

Hi there, when changing icons in jp-WP, I mentioned you often used overlay to create samples. Now there are icons of any kind you may need, tunnel with water as , high level as , same with water as . Just in case you may want to use them ;-) axp_de^Hello! 20:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you axpde for introducing. Ich denke, GRENZE legende is for international boundary, and exGRENZE legende is for other boundaries such as regional (kantons, provinces, prefectures...) or operator administration (JR East and JR Central, SNCF and RATP...) No? In Japan no international boundary exists, thus I put separate explanation in the list in JA. Icon is known to few Japanese, or standing for international boundary (often with checkpost). Maxima m (talk) 09:19, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Of course there are erstwhile/minor border icons as well: tunnel with water , high level as , same with water as . You might want to use those as I mentioned several overlays of normal icons with . axp_de^Hello! 12:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I know you never fail to complete. Maxima m (talk) 08:19, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] tired ...

Wheather is fine, sun is shining, and I'm hacking some greetings to you halfway around the world into my keyboard. It's definetly time for a change ...

By now more than 220 BSicons have been subsituted by some proper named one, since mostly used in BS-templates manually exchanged in thousands of pages and erased afterwards. I think You did a good job on ja-WP, always just some "left-overs" to check there ;-)

Still over 100 BSicons are scheduled and even more untouched at all (esp. among the light railway icons, not to speak of the mixed ones ...) Somehow I feel like Don Quijote fighting windmills :(

Ok, maybe I started the discussion about a consistent and sensible naming scheme a bit brisk (in german "wie die Axt im Walde" - like the axe in the wood ;-) but I quickly got the notion, that esp. on en-WP people just wanted to talk and keep the ancestral names, even if that implies to have more inconsistencies than correct names ... in fact, there used to be examples of three icons showing exactly the same, but all of those named wrong!

At a certain point I stopped talking and started doing, so I mustn't moan if others didn't follow ... although I hoped to find more people quarrelling with those funny names and angry about the fact, that the only existing naming policy is the 1:1 translation of the original germal policy, two years old by now and still "under construction"!!

Only very few joined (like you, thanks :), others are still complaining about me causing too much work – which wouldn't have been required if they made up a the policy before creating tons of new icons, resp. if they asked de-WP before changing the 'ext'-prefixed icons to 'tex' for unknown reason thus ignoring the usage of german {{template:BSe}}!

What I really regret is that I accidently managed to snub User:Erik Baas ... I have no clue what I did or failed to do to make him upset, he even doesn't answer my questions :(

But as in a saying, if one door closes another one opens, User:Bob1960evens from the english canal project adapted the railway system to those "canal-only-BSicons" (which to me is a en:Contradictio in adjecto ;-) and adding some icons we might use for light rail as well, e.g. "uLSTRq" instead of "uHLUECKE".

Thank you for listening that far ... and sorry for spamming you talk page ;-)

P.S.: sw-0.4? Hakuna matata! :) axp_de^Hello! 10:10, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

@Axpde: here's a clue: you didn't answer my questions, and you deleted dozens of my icons (where simplu renamnig them would have been sufficient), thereby destroying many hours of work. And don't say you didn't know that, because I told you the same before. - Erik Baas (talk) 21:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks alot for answering (sorry, Maxima for abusing your talk page ;-)

The only question I found unanswered yesterday I had a sudden inspiration this morning when waking up (sometimes even ideas need some "force" ;-)

Yes you told me, but at that time I already had uploaded many of the those icons I wanted to exchange. I know you're a skilled svg designer, and we "battled" to have the smallest code, but some of your older icons used to be bigger than our late designs, thus I reduced the size at the same time. Those mixed and underground only crossings had to be exchanged concurrently ... and now they share the same design with the "tower flag stops": !

Creating and uploading new icons requires time I glady like to save, and even renaming icons by admin tools requires manual changed on most pages ... and that's the biggest part of the work. I promise I won't nominate your icons "unforced" (i.e. unless they aren't already in proceeding exchange). Happy Easter days! axp_de^Hello! 07:55, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Season is nice in my town also, on river banks and in parks numerous groups with their lunch baskets and beers, wines (Japanese and European both) are under cherry trees to admire blossoms. Sasa si choto, si baridi, maua mingi, nzuri sana.

@axpde and Erik Baas: Your discussions in my talk page are anytime welcomed concerning BSicon, as far as trying things settled up. I am not sure what has happened between you, so it is pity but I am unable to settle you two.

Your appreciation of changing pages in JA be to the user named ja:User:210., whose name you will notice in your watch list in JA, who is silent in edit summaries but working much harder and more often than me on shifting IDs to revised ones.

We in JAWP are, in my personal point of view, neutral in changing names to your revised ones. Presumably it is because our daily script is not Roman and we think IDs as a sort of loan. I am pleased to read your words that we are still in the same line that the names be sorted up. Contributors in EN are supposedly prefer their chaotic codes which I do not understand. I do not mind which side is "left", but uniformity is the most welcome.

It must be informed that we agreed the procedure of files of new shapes (location just for your information, written of course in Japanese. dated 2009-March-14, 05:13 UTC). It is something like the way Erik Baas used (or is using?): First, upload with a tentative ID of a number from 5000 to 5999, then after discussion and agreement with concerned persons outside JAWP (including you) a fixed ID will be given. In this manner ID violation can be avoided, such as unimaginable HKRZo-ELEV and 'quite ... well ... "inventive"' ÜABZfg. I also hope this agreement will prevent crazy shaped, or nonsensely defined icons.

Lastly, it may make your work simpler that instead of uploading new files and nominating identical elders for deletion, you could ask admins to move files which I do not know the procedure in detail. File move may not kill brain children, I mean the edit histories of existing files, of other users such as Erik Baas, those in EN, and me, and I guess a redirect from old to new names will be made that saves you changing old IDs to new in numerous pages. I am afraid of your numerous nominations for deletion being understood as an anti-cooperative activity of the Commons community and BSicon users. --Maxima m (talk) 14:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)