User talk:Micheletb

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[edit] Archives

1. User talk:Micheletb/archive1 archived Michelet-密是力 05:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
2. User talk:Micheletb/archive2 archived Michelet-密是力 (talk) 06:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
3. User talk:Micheletb/archive3 archived Michelet-密是力 (talk) 13:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Contents 1 Archives 2 叫-order.gif 3 Commons:Deletion requests/File:StarckJuicer.jpg 4 Please link images 5 Représentation des constellations 6 Copyright Enquiry 7 File:Goldstumpfnasen (Rhinopithecus roxellanae).jpg 8 Fixed file:ancestors.gif

[edit] 叫-order.gif

Hi,

I just uploaded my first Chinese stroke order animation (and, incidentally, my first file on Commons). I was wondering if you'd take a look at it and make sure everything is okay. Was the background supposed to be solid white and not transparent? Is it too fast? Should the pauses between strokes be longer? Was I supposed to format the file info in a certain way? I tried to use {{SOlicense}} but I didn't understand what the parameters were. I also tried to make the first few frames just the character in solid black, but whenever I did that it somehow messed up the rest of the frames.

Thank you for all your help! DroEsperanto (talk) 03:09, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Hello, and congratulations for this first try.

The strike order of your character is OK, and clearly rendered, so basically there is nothing wrong in the character - so far, so good. Now, it can clearly be improved, so that aesthetically it looks like a drawing with a painting brush and makes a more pleasant sight - you may want to compare these two animations on the right, for instance, and check Commons:Stroke Order Project/Graphics guidelines/Bitmap animations for detailed explanations on how to draw such pictures (feel free to criticize and suggest improvements, of course) :

• In the Category:Order.gif stroke order images, the characters are first shown in black against a white background (one second), then switch to light gray (one more second) then start the stroke order - end the final picture (once again, all black) as a full 1-second pause (which adds to the 1s of the first picture when repeating the cycle). You may have reasons for doing differently, which is perfectly OK, but if your character is to be included in the series, it should stick to the same convention.
• All your picture frames are separated by 70 ms, even when nothing is changed : this is much too mechanical and a bit too fast. Switch to a 100ms basis when the brush is "down" - what's the rush? - and increase the delay between strikes : when the brush is "up", you can insert a full 500 ms pause ; and when that pause separates two picture elements it can go to a full 1000 ms - time for the painter to think "I've done that one, now what's next? oh, yes...". In your animation there is no difference between frames 7, 8 and 9 (first time the brush is "up" - same thing between frames 17-18-19), but that is not necessary if you can adjust the delay between frames. (And if you can't adjust these delays, I'd suggest switching to another pict editor).
• Your character seems to be drawn in black-and-white, with ragged edges. To smooth edges, you must start with a picture where the limits are gray-scaled, and respect these gray limits during the animation.
• All your picture frames seem to be made of a gray character progressively filled by black paint (I may be wrong?). Technically, it is much easier to "undraw" the character : start with the black (ie, black and gray on the edges) character on a transparent background, and erase the black (and gray) parts in reverse drawing order. Then, settle the animated pict so that these frames are just "added" to the grey background (in the correct order, of course) not just "substituted". Using this technique, the characters appear much smoother : there is no problem to respect the gray transitions between "black" and "white" ; and the sharp limit between erased part and preserved part is a moving one - the eye won't see that there is no gray transition in this limit.
• In your animation, there is a slow-down between frames 6 and 7, when the brush reaches the end of the strike. Very good ! keep doing it that way, with slow transitions at the beginning and the end of line segments, or when the brush must take an angle. Always try to render the way the brush is acting - good job !

Now, for some fine-tuning of your drawings with respect to brush movements :

• Frame 12 is unnatural : there is no way a brush can make such a mark on the paper, sliding downwards ; when the brush arrives at the bifurcation area it must go straight ahead. The brush slows down, the pressure increases so that the strike is wider (frame 14 is OK), and then when the brush goes down the vertical limit can cross the horizontal one - and maybe with a very small loop in the brush movement). Well, OK, actually, since there is a 70ms time delay this can't be clearly seen in the animation ;o) - but yet... Just try to understand how the brush can paint such a character, and the movement will be much more natural.
• Frames 26-27-28 are technically slightly incorrect : for such an acute angle the brush goes straight down (thin line - leaving unfilled space on the left), then pauses and goes slightly upward and left (this is when the left part is filled), and then speeds to the right. In that case, there is definitely a small loop in the brush movement (=the center of the brush).

Your first Chinese stroke order animation has been much better than my first one, anyway, so keep on doing a fine work - Michelet-密是力 (talk) 13:05, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thank you for taking the time to type out all that helpful feedback! I'll definitely try to keep all that in mind when I work on my next stroke-order .gif (or maybe even clean up the jiao one), and I hadn't even seen that tutorial thing, so I'll definitely be looking at that from now on. However, I don't totally understand the mechanics of doing the animation backwards. How do I go about "settling" the gray background character into each frame of the animation? (I'm using the GIMP, by the way). DroEsperanto (talk) 22:47, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

GIMP is OK, I use it as well. To build the animation backward, here is my method (The names may not be correct, since my GIMP version automatically runs in French - sorry...) :

1. Create a 300x300 frame, white background, black ~ 270pt centered character (it should leave ~ 30 to 50 px on all four sides). (Check that the edges are smoothed with gray aliasing.) Make sure the "image mode" is color to enable brightness and saturation adjustments. Open the frame stack manager (Ctrl+L). Call that first frame "Background (1000 ms)". Zoom in (200% - 300%) for more comfortable editing.
2. Duplicate the background (frame manager, right click). Change the name to "(1000 ms)#2". Duplicate #2 (the name should switch to "(1000 ms)#3"). Change that name to "(100 ms)#3" (this will be the default frame delay).
3. Edit frame #2. Use the "luminosity / contrast" twice setting the "luminosity" cursor all the way up, ending with a light gray character on a white background. This is your gray background reference (upon which the character will appear in transparent mode).
4. Edit frame #3. Use the "magic stick" color selection tool, select and eliminate all white background, ending with a black character with gray aliased edges on a transparent background. This is your final character (once everything is drawn). End of preparations, un-select the current selection, choose the "eraser" tool and start to "undraw" the character :
5. Drawing loop : [ Duplicate frame #N, creating a N+1. Edit frame N+1 and erase the character part that should have been painted last at this stage (you are building the animation backward), taking into account speed considerations (slow = small variation).]

   Repeat that drawing loop, until everything is erased (typically, creating 3-4 frames for each line segment of the character). Well - almost everything, there is no need to create the last empty stage.

   This is where you should use your artistic and technical sense of brush painting, and technical sense of animation : choose intermediary frames that correspond to significant brush positions or line crossings, slow down in curves and endings, move faster in straight lines, use a curved erasion limit compatible with a brush shape... and so on.

   Just be careful : when two lines are crossing, the result after erasing the first one will be seen for a relatively long time, so that result should be tidy and look like a shape a brush can leave. For instance, look at file:中-order.gif, the end of the hooked second strike is rounded before being covered by the third horizontal strike.

6. Once all the drawing frames have been created (in reverse order) : Reverse the order of frames in the stack (frame menu, stack submenu, reverse command). Then, select the gray character (now second topmost), and put it at the bottom of the stack (shift + arrow-down-button), then select the black background (topmost), and put it at the bottom of the stack (the gray is now at position 2, of course). Your frames are in correct animation order, you may want to check that (filter / animation / play). Feel proud? If it works, you should ;o)
7. Adjust the default 100ms time delays to ~ 500ms between two strikes, ~ 800 to 1000 ms between two character components, 1000 ms for the last (complete character) frame. Check if the animation is correct and "feels" right (filter / animation / play) and adjust if necessary, especially if angles are drawn too quickly.
8. When everything is OK, use the "Filter / animation / optimize (GIF)" to create an optimized version ; check the animation ; switch to a low-definition "palette" mode (15 colors are perfectly sufficient) for space and bandwidth optimization ; and save the result.

This "reverse drawing" method is very fast, because the only thing you do is basically erase the character, with no need to fine-tune the resulting picture for aliasing problem (apart where strikes cross), and that can be done in no time. A character of medium complexity (金) can be drawn in ~ a quarter of an hour ; and when I make an error in the stroke order, I find it more convenient to start anew than to edit the GIF file and adjust the picture components by hand.

Enjoy your character creations - Michelet-密是力 (talk) 06:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Commons:Deletion requests/File:StarckJuicer.jpg

Your input on the above would be appreciated. --Simonxag (talk) 21:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Please link images

BotMultichillT 06:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

• Image:Go 14.png is uncategorized since 2 August 2009.
• Image:网-aorder.gif was uncategorized on 6 September 2009.
• Image:糸-aorder.gif was uncategorized on 6 September 2009.
• Image:麦-aorder.gif was uncategorized on 6 September 2009.
• Image:竹-aorder.gif was uncategorized on 6 September 2009.
• Image:糸-border.gif was uncategorized on 6 September 2009.

[edit] Représentation des constellations

Bonjour,

J'ai trouvé par hasard votre image:TS-N-20.png. J'aime beaucoup la représentation des constellations (les tracés) qui sont particulièrement visuels. Je me souviens avoir vu des tracés très similaires dans un livre dont j'ai perdu la référence. D'où viennent ces représentations ? Avez-vous des références ?

Merci.

Bonjour. Les tracés des constellations sont souvent (pas toujours) inspirés de "The Stars - A new way to see them", H.A. Rey, 1952-1980, ISBN 0-395-24830-2. On les retrouve également dans la série Category:Animated constellations. Bonne continuation. Michelet-密是力 (talk) 05:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Merci, c'était très probablement le livre que je cherchais. Cordialement. --Djib (talk) 06:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright Enquiry

Dear Micheletb,

I am emailing from a documentary company in England called Parthenon Entertainment and we would love to use the following image within our documentary series entitled Mystery Files.

Zodiac Woodcut.jpg

We were wondering if you own the copyright to the photograph of this image as we would like to use it within our documentary for the rights for worldwide, all media and for perpetuity.

If you can email me at: ellie.davis@parthenonentertainment.com or call me on 01923 286 886 that would be great!

Many thanks,

Ellie.

Copyright Query - FOLLOW UP

Dear Micheleteb,

We have attempted to contact you regarding Parthenon’s right to use the Zodiac woodcut.png as part of our documentary series entitled Mystery Files (and any subsequent reversions) as outlined in our previous emails below.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zodiac_woodcut.png

It is imperative that we have authority from the copyright holder for the use of this archive material and in consideration of that authority, we would be able to pay the copyright holder a nominal fee upon signature of a release form.

The transmission of this series is due to commence shortly and I would be most grateful if you could respond to this email as a matter of urgency to enable us to put in place the necessary documentation.

Kind regards

Emily Rudge

emily.rudge at parthenonentertainment.com 0044 1923 286 886

---

Dear Ellie and Emily,

To my knowledge and understanding, there is no copyright attached to that file :

• The original image reproduced by http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zodiac_woodcut.png has no author's right attached, since any such right would have expired since the 16th century.
• In our modern times, the reproduction of such image does not legally create any author's right, since such a scan / photograph cannot reflect its author's artistic personality.
• Indeed, the file itself is initially owned by the author of the reproduction, who can distribute it at the conditions he wants ; but once freely published on a public server under a "no condition & no copyright"-kind clause, the file can be used by anybody.

You may therefore use freely the file for whatever you want - worldwide, all media and perpetuity, just like anybody can. The only restriction is that such right cannot be exclusive, of course, since anybody can do the same thing without having to ask for any permission whatsoever.

That file was originally uploaded as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zodiac_woodcut.png, by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jossi, you may want to ask him for more details.

Sincerely, Michelet B.

[edit] File:Goldstumpfnasen (Rhinopithecus roxellanae).jpg

File:Goldstumpfnasen (Rhinopithecus roxellanae).jpg is not an exact duplicate of File:Goldstumpfnasen (Rhinopithecus roxellanae)-2.jpg. One is the source image of the other. Please check much more carefully before replacing :-) --Tony Wills (talk) 05:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Fixed file:ancestors.gif

• i fixed a bit that ancestors gif you made / removed the gray backgrounds that were showing occasionally, but don't know how to upload it
• Even better, i can clean source images for you and you can repeat the morphing looks
• nice good idea, pity to have this gray spoil impression

milantrenc at aol.com

Hello, Milantrenc, and thanks for your feedback.

• I have no gray background seen from my browser, but I know this can vary strongly with the operating system or the browser. I wasen't aware it needed any correction, I would have done it myself of course. Can you pinpoint what the problem has been ?
• If you want to upload your version, it is easy, but you need to create yourself an account on Commons. Use Special:Userlogin for that, or connect yourself to the global account system (from hu:, I fancy...).
• Feel free to clean source images (once you have an account), all positive contributions are welcome.

If you want me to rebuild the animation on cleaned-up pictures, just leave me a message.

Sincerely, Michelet-密是力 (talk) 07:30, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

203.13.1.142 lizard1959:

I love the (animated gif) image. I don't think you should go from a pro-simian to a baboon to a chimp to a human, however, when we do have other notions of our ancestors. A baboon has a "muzzle" and ths its face is too specific. We share a common ancestor with modern chimps and there is no reason to think that it looked like a modern chimp. Why don't you also insert an Australopithecus and maybe one of H.habilis or H. erectus?

Hello, lizard1959.

Actually, the problem is the same with all the pictures (with a possible exception for the File:Kinorhyncha.png which may be an ancestor) : all are modern life forms. I tried to select animals that could be representative of primitive forms, that is, not too specific, but nobody knows what the actual ancestor looked like.

The animation underlines the anatomical similarities and the innovations from one stage of anatomical organization to another, that's all. As the comment goes in the file's information, it illustrates "Continuity and derivations of life forms between sponge and human male" - life forms, not evolution.

The same kind of animation from Australopithecus to H.habilis or H. erectus to H.Sapiens could indeed be made, and that would indeed be illustrative of an evolution in time, but that is another question.

I must admit that the baboon and the chimp are very artificial, however, their only justification is technical : I needed these two intermediary pictures to rotate the body (from a side view to a front one), erect the spine to a vertical station, and raise the arm from the ground to the final salutation. A direct transition from a quadruped to a human would have hopelessly blurred the morphing. This has been commented in the picture information, by the way. Do feel free to suggest alternatives, however, but keep in mind that technical difficulty.

Michelet-密是力 (talk) 07:36, 25 November 2009 (UTC)