User talk:Slomox/Archiv/2009

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Assessments

Hi! Das Assessments-Template funktioniert offenbar nicht richtig. Ist es wirklich so kurz vor POTY nötig, ein funktionierendes Template gegen ein defektes auszutauschen oder wird das vorher noch repariert? -- Cecil (talk) 12:33, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Was daran funktionierrt nicht? --Slomox (talk) 16:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Es verlinkt nicht auf die Kandidatur, wenn das Bild nicht den gleichen Namen hat, weil zB ein Edit davon FP wurde (siehe [1]). -- Cecil (talk) 19:34, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Template:Inkscape

You appear to have introduced a typo into this template. See the line containing "Category:Inkscape". There is a stray curly-brace in it. It's causing spurious red text in all the files that include this template. Please fix at your earliest convenience. Thanks. Karl Hahn (talk) 04:18, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. --Slomox (talk) 16:02, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Still getting red text, "Template:Category", when transcluding template:Inkspace. See File:P-Xylene.svg as example. Karl Hahn (talk) 17:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
The page is still in your cache. Try reloading. --Slomox (talk) 19:34, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Danke. Die Seite funktioniert jetzt richdig. Karl Hahn (talk) 20:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Template:CombineZM

Even I prefered the old design (because it included the colours od the copyrighted logo) the new one is also nice. However, may you know how to keep the template down to one line (I don't knwo what you see or what somebody else sees but I see two lines for example at the page of Particle board close up-vertical-f22 Δ0100.JPG. If it's not possible to create on line with the standart template I would copy the text and create a new one out of it.
--D-Kuru (talk) 14:38, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Ich hab's geändert. Basierte auf einer Parser-Macke. Text, der durch einfachen Zeilenumbruch getrennt ist, wird auf einer Zeile dargestellt. Erst ein doppelter Zeilenumbruch erzeugt einen neuen Absatz. Die beiden Zeilen hatten nur einfachen Zeilenumbruch. Da die beiden Zeilen aber in einer Tabellenzelle standen und auf der allerersten Reihe anfingen, wurde plötzlich einfacher Zeilenumbruch als Absatz dargestellt (allerdings nur für die zweite Zeile, die erste bleibt ganz unformatiert). Ich hab's jetzt in eine Form gebracht, die standardkonform interpretiert wird. --Slomox (talk) 19:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Commons:Template i18n

Could you update the list if you change something? And what's up with {{PD-self}}? Why a new template? Multichill (talk) 17:36, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

What do you refer to by Why a new template?? --Slomox (talk) 17:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
At {{PD-self}} you appear to be using {{Fallback}} and not {{autotranslate}}. Multichill (talk) 20:07, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Why Fallback is needed: Template talk:Autotranslate. Why I used it in PD-self: I'm actually not sure, I guess, cause I wanted to test the template (I created it the same day I changed PD-self) and perhaps a second reason was to be able to keep the parameter name. Autotranslate knows only numbered parameters. If you change a template with many already existing translations its easier if you can keep the old parameter name. But there's no strong reason not to change it to autotranslate. --Slomox (talk) 22:05, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Microformats

Thank you for your help in various microformat-related matters, I think {{Information}] is a great starting point, and we will be able quickly to add useful microformat richness to the many articles using it, I I can answer any questions on microformats, I shall be happy to do so, you might like to use Commons talk:Microformats Project so that the answers are readily available for all to see - and please sign up to the project! Andy Mabbett (talk) 21:34, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

No offence to Mr. Mabbett, but I would suggest you get second opinions regarding microformat questions at Microformats.org. -J JMesserly (talk) 22:42, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
And why, especially if not wanting to cause offence, do you find it necessary to suggest that? Andy Mabbett (talk) 23:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Multilingual search on cats- any objections to this sort of approach?

Category:Shenzhou 7. So if some guy google searches on spacecraft in chinese or tamil, they have a way of discovering that there may be relevant media on Shenzhou 7 in our repository. Thumbs up or down? Or alternative?-J JMesserly (talk) 17:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

From the "content organization point of view" it's a thumbs up ;-) Although I wouldn't hide it with the navbox. Should be visible by default in my opinion. --Slomox (talk) 17:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree regarding hide/unhide. However, I propose this way first in order to gain consensus on achieving some multilingual search support on categories. -J JMesserly (talk) 19:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Own work & date

Hi Slomox, i created {{Date}}. Just a simple template to show the date in the users interface language. You might want to have a look at it. I was thinking about {{own}}. We should rename it to {{own work}}, it's much clearer. The current own work template should of course first be renamed. Any suggestions? Multichill (talk) 20:59, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

{{Date}} is a good base, but it needs an additional language switch to allow correct formatting . "24 Januar 2009" is no valid time format in Low Saxon or German. It has to be "24. Januar 2009" with the extra dot. The template should allow for any format.
About {{own}} vs {{own work}}. I'm just fine with {{own}}. It's short (useful if users need to type it in with new uploads) and it's clear enough in my opinion. --Slomox (talk) 05:51, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
{{ISOdate}} seems to work alright. You might want to apply the same trick to the source field in {{information}}. Pass the variable, make it lowercase. Match it against a lot of options, output locale or the string passed. I will start playing around at {{Parse source}}. Feel free to join the fun or rename the template to a better name. Multichill (talk) 13:47, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm quite happy with the result. Please take a look, might be worth implementing it in {{information}}. Multichill (talk) 14:54, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Looks good! We won't be able to catch all possible variations with that, but 90% should be easily possible. --Slomox (talk) 20:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for addressing that issue. --Justanother (talk) 04:04, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Adding 'summary' to Template:Information

Hi,

Could I trouble you for a response at Template talk:Information#Adding 'summary', please? Andy Mabbett (talk) 12:44, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. And again. Andy Mabbett (talk) 20:35, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for this eidt. Unfortunately, you've placed <span class="summary" style="display:none">{{PAGENAME}}</span> outside the table which has class="vevent". Andy Mabbett (talk) 23:00, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Ay, that was not clever. --Slomox (talk) 23:03, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 ;-) Thanks for fixing it; and very quickly, too. It all seems to be working OK now. I've posted some possible refinements to the talk page, though there's no urgency. Andy Mabbett (talk) 23:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

←Unfortunately, it seems that {{Description}} uses class="description", which clashes with the equivalent in {{Information}} (no harm is done, but not all of the data is included). As it's optional in hCalendar, the best thing in the short term would be to remove that class from {{Information}} until we figure out a solution, I have to leave my PC now, and will work on it in ~20 hours time. Andy Mabbett (talk) 00:32, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I told you, that unsuffixed class names are not very wise. I think, that prooves my point ;-) --Slomox (talk) 00:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Touche! Andy Mabbett (talk) 00:38, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Need help using int:lang

Hi,

I tried to use {{#switch:{{int:Lang}}... in our wiki. but int:lang didn't detect the language from user preferences. Is that required any extension or javascript to work properly? --Sadik Khalid (talk) 10:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Lang and its subpages ({{int:Foo}} is a method to call the localizd version of the MediaWiki message Foo) are no "official" MediaWiki messages. It's a hack used on Commons only. On your wiki you have to manually create MediaWiki:Lang, MediaWiki:Lang/ml, MediaWiki:Lang/fr etc. with the language code as content. --Slomox (talk) 12:17, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, It works fine! --Sadik Khalid (talk) 07:58, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Bot flag

Dear Slomox, Slobot has now a bot flag. Please add a short description about your bot on Commons:Bots. Thanks, Patrícia msg 18:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Flickr bot

I noticed File:Dancing Batwa, Uganda.jpg. You can fix it like this. Multichill (talk) 16:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Other info pages

I checked the logs, and the info page deletions appear the only ones that these particular admins performed. It appears that info templates normally display the contents on the info page, but the Edison one wasn't because some edits had been made that unintentionally damaged this capability for a very esoteric reason (it blew the pre-expand limit). It works now without a noinclude, but I left it there anyway just in case there is future damage. Pages using it won't display until the servers refresh them, which appears not be too soon as the queue backup is currently up around 1.5 million. Grumble. Oh well- thanks for the undeletes. -J JMesserly (talk) 00:03, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Oops. Thanks for that. I only knew about this Info thing a couple months ago. Shouldn't this be a template or a new namespace anyway? Patrícia msg 16:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
They assume a pseudo namespace, but probably could be rewritten for the template namespace. However, if such metadata were used widely, the volume of discrete pages would quickly saturate the template namespace, and I don't know about such things, but as a developer I intuit there might be some maintenance issues there. Although it is possible to add namespaces in the wikimedia engine, in practice there usually has to be a convincing reason to do it, and a handful of these pages after three years is not exactly compelling evidence. Still, I have written some templates that sort of do some of the things that the info pages do (looking up information that should be shared in a central way), and I'd be interested in participating on some sort of guidance document regarding this sort of information on Commons.

By the way Slomox, thanks for going the extra mile to investigate the other deletions. I will fix the remaining red text ones in your village pump note if you resurrect them. If they really turned out to be junk, then I will speedy them. -J JMesserly (talk) 18:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

No problem. It's really annoying if valid content gets deleted. I feel, that many contributors (many new ones but even experienced ones) quit contributing to Commons or at least are unhappy about Commons cause their content gets deleted. It's hard enough to understand the exact requirements. Therefore I try to keep an eye on 'wrong' deletions.
Well, in my log entry I said Info was "in wide use". That seems not to be fully true. According to Special:Allpages/Info: there are only 170 pages. Including redirects and aux templates. I had thought it would be in wider use. Now knowing the small number of those templates, I question, whether we should sustain the system. Those templates are unbelievably esoteric. I think I am an experienced user of templates, but I was absolutely unable to understand the internal mechanics of the Info templates. I guess that few users will ever be able to create a template like that.
And being a localization supporter I really like to keep down the amount of redundancy and "textual content" on Commons. We should not use elaborate image descriptions, but keep them short.
Let's take Info:Thomas Alva Edison as an example. It's included in File:Thomas Alva Edison using his dicatating machine.jpg. But wouldn't it be easier to just link to Thomas Alva Edison? Everybody who wants to know the date of birth and death of Edison or what he was nicked by a newspaper can follow that link and read more about him. And even Thomas Alva Edison itself shouldn't tell much about Edison. Name, year of birth and death, occupation should suffice shouldn't it? If you need more info: Follow the link to Wikipedia, that's what we have Wikipedia for.
It's not, that the idea of the Info templates is bad in itself. It's just: We don't even have enough working power to take care about our images. And images is our core mission (or generally files). We will never be able to cover all our galleries and categories and files with elaborate info. Thomas Alva Edison for example sohuld be cut down to something like "{{BioGalleryInfo|Thomas Alva Edison|1847|1931|USA|inventor}}" (BioGalleryInfo being an template that creates a [localizable] string like "Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931) was an American inventor") plus categories plus interwikis. All the other pages using Info:Thomas Alva Edison should just link to Thomas Alva Edison. --Slomox (talk) 18:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Well actually if the community was convinced of their value (eg multilingual search- see the village pump response), these could be simply generated by Bot via extracting the first sentence of the wikipedia article for each language. No big deal there. We could have tens of thousands of them inside of a couple of weeks. The key question is: do we want them. I suspect that unless they are encapsulated in a navbox, that many will be persuaded by the argument that this sort of thing would constitute the spamming of commons. IMHO- we should use this sort of mechanism to have translations for every single category name in a template subpage, so that we can do stuff like [[:Category:Battleships|Schlachtschiffs]] via template call. eg (simplified):
 [[:Category:{{{catname}}} | {{Facts/{{{catname}}}-de}}]]
Currently, I am using the Template:Facts basepage name as a root for storing information on placenames. Unlike Info pages, these are more simpler to understand. Example: Template:Facts/Bezirk Tempelhof-Schöneberg tells us that this district is partof berlin, which is part of Germany. It also tells me the placenames that have placenames within that district. I need this info for my category navigation template that I use for example on page File:JFK speech lch bin ein berliner 1.jpg. By design, these facts page names correspond to Commons category names, so there is no reason an element of these could not have a translation. EG: The Serbian template:Facts/Bezirk Tempelhof-Schöneberg-sr page would list the display category name as Темпелхоф-Шенеберг. So I just place the laguage list at the top of the navbox, and clicking on serbian would jump to a separate page with an execution of the same template, but would populate the navbox with current translations/ transliterations for the serbian language. Using the same live code keeps all languages up to date, unlike the way you are currently localizing templates for various languages. You probably have realized the limits of the wikimedia engine's aliasing mechanism by now. You just can't use it for all the terms you need on Commons. Hopefully you see what I mean, but if not, please let me know- I was a little hasty. Anyway, the mechanism of "Facts"/ "Info" pages offers considerable power that can be applied to a wide variety of goals that Commons has. -J JMesserly (talk) 20:05, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Better go in hidance! Brion will chase and kill you, if your templates ever come in wider use! But, joking aside, it really takes seconds until pages using those templates are served. The basic idea of storing data in constructs like Template:Facts/Bezirk Tempelhof-Schöneberg is interesting and could be useful for some tasks. But we should keep it to a certain level. The Kennedy speech example is an example of what I don't want. No navigational elements in image description pages except the images really form some kind of series. But "Navigating the 1960s" is absolutely too much.
If we didn't have caching there would be a lot more people having to hide than just me. Actually the name navigating the 1960s is too broad. It is as if the template on Category:1881 paintings said "Browsing the 1880s". It is not all of the 1880s, just painting, and in particular 1881. It is true the template does more than the paintings template but because it doesn't demonstrate this constrained context, it perhaps was not the best example. Given the image on your user page, I thought it prudent not to use the examples from Paris where the examples of this is more clear. Actually though you will notice that this is not browsing the entire history of the world in the 60s, but only the 60s in Berlin. If I had done more of the districts you would see more than just Bezirk Berlin. A template on a page for a painting of a district of paris would only display the nearby districts in paris, and those of France, none from anywhere else in the world. What the nav template allows you to do is move vertically and horizontally through time and space freed of the constraints of their categorizations. So it is always in context relevant to the content. Anyway, navigation is a different subject than multilingual. But if you are interested in the navigation issue, see my description of the problem "This is actually an old problem..." at the village pump. Commons needs much better navigation to be a good repository. It positively sucks trying to find information, because it has all been pigeonholed. -jjm
On Village pump you say, that the inclusion of Tour:USS Nevada- Pearl Harbor attack at File:Pearl harbor 12-7-41 from attacking plane Nara 80-G-30550 annotated.jpg allows Japanese users to find the image. But the info on that page is not specific to that image. Every Japanese search for "戦艦 真珠湾" will return all images of the series. Wouldn't it be better, if we created a gallery page with all 23 images of the series and the info from Tour:USS Nevada- Pearl Harbor attack? The "戦艦 真珠湾" would then return that gallery and the Japanese user could look at all of the 23 pictures. On the file pages we should only put a description specific to that single picture. That would make the images accessible to the Japanese user in the same way as now. But it would spare us many complex syntax.
Actually I copied that example from the More info talk page, but I don't know what you mean by series. When an author uploads a single image on Commons that has battleships and Pearl harbor, are they intending on creating a series? No- they simply add the keywords that apply. But I agree with the drift of your statement. Best is always to make a custom page, with hand tailored captions. And every day, another 10K images come in with virtually no text to identify the content. Slomox, we agree on what is best. Now, let's talk about worst. What is worst is to not support searches from any other languages except english, when we can do something about it. Should we doom Commons to what is worst because we cannot devise algorithmic solutions that deliver what is best? I think not. On the other hand, I don't feel all that strongly about it because commons material doesn't show up in Google image search. But that's the argument. -jjm
You give the "template:Facts/Bezirk Tempelhof-Schöneberg-sr" example. There are 6000 languages on earth and around 4 million places. Perhaps tens of millions of species, millions of Wikimedia-project-relevant people, tens of thousands battleships etc. pp. That will mean many templates... The approach is not bad, but it doesn't scale in the long run. There are ideas about implementing a method to access the data from Omegawiki to allow localization of words. In that way, that for example a search for "Kategory:Hynder" will take you to "Category:Horses" (to directly take up GerardM's pet example) or to make possible [[:Category:Battleships|Schlachtschiffe]] (it's Schlachtschiffe ;-) ). I think, that idea scales better. Of course, we can still create "Facts" templates until that solution is actually available, if there is a need to have the information available.
I am a software engineer, so I am familiar with scaling issues. Notice your argument is generic, and could be applied to other things whose practicality has been demonstrated. For example, there may be 6000 languages but we don't have wikipedias in 6000 different languages, and we don't have wikipedia pages with 6000 interwikis. One might have said that the idea of a wikipedia with 2.7 million articles executing code from tens of thousands of templates all created by volunteers is an idea concocted by someone that doesn't understand scaling problems. But actually it does scale, and we haven't even scratched the limits of what MySQL can handle. If fully appreciate there may be wikimedia issues, but what the heck- if some awful problem materializes, we rip it out with a bot. No big deal. -JJM
For example, I could imagine, that "Facts" templates could be useful for subnational entities. US states or German states are used in hundreds or thousands of categories and galleries. Making them accesible in many languages through "Facts" could be benefitful as temporary solution for the time until the Omegawiki thing becomes reality. But we shouldn't extend it to the county level or to the level of municipalities. It won't scale. --Slomox (talk) 21:54, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I usually loath embedded responses, but due to the number of different topics discussed in your remarks, I felt I should embed them in the context of your statements.
Anyway, I am not trying to convince you on either subject. In a way I am somewhat relieved that you mistakenly think my multilingual proposal would be bad/hard, because if I had a lot of people agreeing with me, I would probably have to volunteer for a lot more work. Take care. -J JMesserly (talk) 22:47, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I neglected to mention why I know the calls are not a problem. There is in fact a way to profile the load characteristics of a template. Since you are an advanced template writer, you might already know about it. If you display the html source for the wikipage using the template(s), scan for "NewPP" and you will find:

Preprocessor node count: 28,389/1,000,000

Post-expand include size: 171,450/2,048,000 bytes

Template argument size: 86,489/2,048,000 bytes

Expensive parser function count: 169/500

This is for a random page using the places by decade template, and shows I am nowhere near the allowable limits for template calls. If this template were written without knowlege of how the wikimedia engine expands code, those numbers would be much worse. That's not too say that it couldn't be optimized. A lot more could be done to preload commonly used values and pass these to lower level templates rather than evaluate them multiple times. Probably a detail that is not of interest to you, but it occured to me as I was doing something else that it might be handy information for you. -J JMesserly (talk) 05:43, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
The pages might not hit internal limits, but the limits are not designed to be exhausted. If the legal maximum limit of melamine in food is 2.5 mg/kg, that doesn't mean, that it's fine to add more melamine until you reach 2.4 mg/kg. When I go to random pages on Commons, the pages are served immediately. If I go to one of the pages with your templates, it takes _always_ 2, 3, 4, or 5 seconds until the page is served.
And let me add, that when I used the word "scale" I don't meant it in the technical sense only. The human component does not scale too. And Commons is not the place to create ontological data.
And actually, even if it would scale on the technical and on the human level, and even if we'd have a plugin to a perfect external source that would make accessible all the needed data, I still wouldn't like the approach, cause I think, that all pages should _only_ contain information directly relevant to them.
We have files, galleries and categories. Files are our content and galleries and categories are two measures to make our content accessible. With your templates like "places by decade" you place the accessibility measures directly _in_ the content. We should restrain from that and put all accessibility measures into the appropiate namespaces. --Slomox (talk) 13:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
You have a cogent and justifiable point of view regarding multilingual transclusions. My key difference with you on this is in this point: "What is worst is to not support searches from any other languages except english, when we can do something about it." Your response seems to be, it is better to keep commons in this "worst" state and try to get people to do more hand generated translations. Again, I agree that getting people to do translations tailored to each image is best, but observe that this effort has to date proven to be a largely futile task. For the last 4 years and despite concerted efforts, the proportion of un decribed content to described content has gotten worse, not better due largely to the unabated and massive influx of new material. So I am making a practical suggestion. My position is that since these are transclusions, it is simple to remove them when such hand translations materialize. A supporting point is that I contend that wait will be a very long time for the majority of images on commons. So I guess I have a hard time understanding what the objection is if this multilingual text was default hidden in a navbox like template. The Japanese description of battleships and Pearl harbor are directly relevant to the image that were tagged with those transclusions. From a high level, my response is that talking about ideals and not dealing with the realities of practice does not help Commons.
Technical point- re serve times. Note that the Info templates are far more complex than place by decade, yet a page using two info templates serves extremely rapidly. File:USS West Virginia sunk-Pearl Harbor-7Dec41.jpg. I think you know why. The servers are currently heavily stressed- the queue is up around 1.4 million. I am frequently updating the place by decade template, so it is not surprizing that serve times are slow. Usually the cache version is invalid, so it has to refresh. But note that the refresh is torturously long regarless if the template is complex or straight text. Invalidate the cache, and you have a big lag. The developers set the limits and your point that they are not meant to be exhausted is not relevant since I am nowhere near those limits. -J JMesserly (talk) 17:43, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay, what do we have on File:Pearl harbor 12-7-41 from attacking plane Nara 80-G-30550 annotated.jpg? We have Tour:USS Nevada- Pearl Harbor attack, Info:Pearl Harbor attack, Info:USS Nevada (BB-36), Info:USS Arizona (BB-39), Info:USS West Virginia (BB-48).
If we create USS Nevada - Pearl Harbor attack with the content of Tour:USS Nevada- Pearl Harbor attack, Pearl Harbor attack with the content of Info:Pearl Harbor attack, USS Nevada (BB-36) with the content of Info:USS Nevada (BB-36), USS Arizona (BB-39) with the content of Info:USS Arizona (BB-39), and USS West Virginia (BB-48) with the content of Info:USS West Virginia (BB-48), and if we then create Category:Pearl Harbor attack, Category:USS Nevada (BB-36), Category:USS Arizona (BB-39), Category:USS West Virginia (BB-48), and then put File:Pearl harbor 12-7-41 from attacking plane Nara 80-G-30550 annotated.jpg in all those categories, we had achieved the same as with your approach. But with much less esoteric templating. The Japanese Googler would still find the galleries and categories and could find the image he wants on them. That has absolutely nothing to do with ideals and realities of practice. Its the same content, but just placed in a single meaningful point instead of being placed everywhere.
The Japanese description of battleships and Pearl harbor are directly relevant to the image that were tagged with those transclusions. They are relevant 'in the context of', but not directly relevant to the image itself. Placing them on the galleries would put them in a place they are directly relevant to.
Preview forces rerendering too. Preview of File:Pearl harbor 12-7-41 from attacking plane Nara 80-G-30550 annotated.jpg with your templates: 4.9s. Preview of the same page without your templates: 0.6s. since I am nowhere near those limits 169/500 expensive parser function means you can have max 2 of your templates on a page. I won't call that nowhere near those limits. --Slomox (talk) 18:38, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Again, I totally agree with you that manually created approaches are better, and by the way, I don't know that the way info templates do this is the correct way. Simple ones could achieve multilingual search goals just fine. But really, what you are suggesting goes under the heading of trying to get users to make greater efforts at creating richer content. These efforts have been a dismal failure. So you have not responded to my point regarding practicalities. -J JMesserly (talk) 18:51, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
What are you talking about? I _totally_ fail to see how my approach is harder to achieve than yours. Quite to the contrary. --Slomox (talk) 19:00, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
My example had to do with full text search on multilingual text. I was refering to a google search for the terms, in japanese for battleship and pearl harbor and getting a hit on a page like File:USS West Virginia sunk-Pearl Harbor-7Dec41.jpg. In that case, all the contributor has to do is transclude a simple or complex info page for both concepts.
What I understood of your proposal was that you intend for a contributor to construct a separate gallery collecting together images that they feel belong in a set and then annotating that. Isn't that correct? -J JMesserly (talk) 22:53, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I feel kind of tired.
I have no idea about the semantics you apply to feel, set, annotate etc. I am speaking of plain old galleries. --Slomox (talk) 00:02, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

My apologies. By "set", I just meant a group of images that the user feels (thought) was interesting. In your case, the author has identified such a group of images. In my case, the author was simply annotating (adding a description for) one image. Ok, it is a picture of pearl harbor, so fine, they paste in the pearl harbor infopage. It is a picture of the USS West Virginia. Ok indicate that. User is done. Then then move on to uploading the next image from the 1940s, eg about Hula girls in Honolulu or whatever. -J JMesserly (talk) 00:28, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

After a month, I have visited many of these pages. There has been plenty of time for these pages to have been cached and the results are not pretty. I think the empirical evidence is indicating that caching doesn't remove the performance issue as I thought it would, so I am reversing myself on this matter and agreeing with your assessment. I will be either removing these templates or refactoring them to address the significant performance issues. A bot could periodically re subst the dynamic population of the various groups in the navbox. -J JMesserly (talk) 03:46, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Template talk:Creator#Code rationalisation

Hi Slomox, since you were involved in this discussion, would you be so kind to follow up on the comment Andy Mabbett left? I was checking which pages were tagged with {{editprotected}} but I don't understand a word of that discussion to be able to close it :). Thanks, Patrícia msg 22:54, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm still in doubt whether the addition is meaningful. I don't want to decide the issue. You could perhaps present the issue on the village pump to ask for opinions. --Slomox (talk) 23:45, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I'll do that, thank you very much! Patrícia msg 20:44, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

description on #4000000

hey;

i'm not clear on why you reverted? it's sloppy having two separate description fields for "english"

i'm open to arranging it differently

Lx 121 (talk) 07:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

{{Milestone}} is a multilingual template. It's not English, it's whatever you have specified in your preferences (at least if that language is supported). --Slomox (talk) 20:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

oooh, ok ty it still looks kinda dumb having the "description: languagex:" come up twice tho. somebody (who knows how, i don't, sadly) should tweak it to either not put that @ the beginning of the line, or combine it with the relevant lang description.

thanks for explaining

Lx 121 (talk) 01:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Combining won't be possible without dirty tricks. Not showing the language name should be possible though. --Slomox (talk) 02:16, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Done. --Slomox (talk) 02:23, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Schritt fahren = falsch > standardabweichend > völlig korrekt?

Die Galerie Leerzeichen in Komposita in der dieses Bild steht, hat eine Vorgeschichte. Ich hatte mich mit einigen anderen darüber geärgert, dass im Artikel Leerzeichen in Komposita (altes Lemma Deppenleerzeichen) jede Menge Bilder reingeklatscht wurden und immer „falsch, falsch, falsch“ daruntergeschrieben wurde. Das ist nicht neutral. Ich habe nun die Galerie eingerichtet um die verschiedenen Schreibweisen zu dokumentieren, nicht um sie zu brandmarken. Damit aber hier nicht das gleiche Theater anfängt, dass Leute unter alle Bilder „falsch, falsch, falsch“ schreiben, habe ich die Konzession gemacht, in die Bildbeschreibungen standardabweichend oder standardwidrig zu schreiben, wobei der Schreibstandard das amtliche Regelwerk von 1996 mit den Veränderungen von 2004 und 2006 ist.

Nun nehme ich das umgekehrte Phänomen war, das in einzelne Bilder wie hier „richtig“, „korrekt“ oder sogar „völlig korrekt“ eingetragen wird und das stimmt natürlich nicht. Richtig und falsch gibt es ja nur in der Schule und dort ist Schritt fahren schlicht falsch, denn schrittfahren wird nach § 34 des amtlichen Regelwerks in einem Wort und mit kleinem Anfangsbuchstaben geschrieben, weil schritt- die Wortgruppe mit Schrittgeschwindigkeit ersetzt. Aus mit Schrittgeschwindigkeit fahren wird schrittfahren, so wie aus mit einer Videokamera überwachen videoüberwachen wird. Probe: Man kann ein Auto kaufen und Auto fahren, man kann ein Rad kaufen und Rad fahren, aber man kann keinen Schritt kaufen und Schritt fahren.

Es steht jedermann frei, zu schreiben wie er will. Dennoch ist Schritt fahren eine Abweichung vom Schreibstandard. Dies ist eine neutrale, unangreifbare und wahre Beschreibung. „Völlig korrekt“ ist nicht neutral, angreifbar und unwahr. -- Merker Berlin (talk) 10:56, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

§ 34 (3) findet keine Anwendung, weil dem ersten Bestandteil die Eigenschaften eines selbständigen Substantivs nicht weitgehend verloren gegangen ist. Anders als das Eis in eislaufen ist das Schritt in Schritt fahren noch immer ein selbständiges Substantiv. Viel korrekter wäre der Vergleich mit Staub saugen/staubsaugen, § 33 E. Demnach wäre beides 'standardkonform'. --Slomox (talk) 14:00, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Templates

I'm guessing you want to delete all the color templates like {{dimGray}} and {{red}} and only have {{color}} left, right? Same with the column templates? I'm all for minimizing our template clutter, so don't hesitate to delete them once they are unused (I can at least speak for any I created). Before my little vacation, organizing and cleaning up our template space was my main work. You probably ran into some of Fabartus' messes template work, e.g. Template:Wpd-te, Template:Ver@glance (yes, it's painful). Any help cleaning up those and others—especially things like "multilingual support templates" which conflicts with our own multilingual system—would be greatly appreciated. Before I had very little help in this namespace and I'm glad to see someone else taking an interest (and actually improving it instead of messing it up). Thanks. Rocket000(talk) 18:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, if I run in no problems, I plan to delete the color templates later. I originally had the plan to unify all existing column templates too, but I guess we need to keep two versions. One with fixed breaks and one with the Mozilla solution. But at least I want to get rid of the "begin - break - end" templates.
I saw Fabartus works, but I left them alone, cause I was absolutely unable to understand the purpose of the ones I encountered...
I wasn't aware of the templates in Category:Multilingual support templates until now. I will have a look at them and try to replace them. I already did several hundred edits changing icon template (Category:Internationalization icon templates) which were used for tagging translations. --Slomox (talk) 19:09, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Curious

I would like to know how this is an improvement. I must not be thinking of something because it doesn't make any difference to me. I always did it the other way because it doesn't use a parser function. Rocket000(talk) 09:45, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I created a little test template at User:Slomox/test6 to show the difference. The template displays parameters '1' and '2' if they have a value, and 'foo' if empty.
code no if: with if:
{{User:Slomox/test6|bar|bar}} <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<kml xmlns="http://earth.google.com/kml/2.0">
<GroundOverlay>
  <name></name>
  <Icon>
    <href></href>
    <viewBoundScale>0.75</viewBoundScale>
  </Icon>
  <LatLonBox>
    <north></north>
    <south></south>
    <east></east>
    <west></west>
  </LatLonBox>
</GroundOverlay>
</kml>



{{User:Slomox/test6||}} <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<kml xmlns="http://earth.google.com/kml/2.0">
<GroundOverlay>
  <name></name>
  <Icon>
    <href></href>
    <viewBoundScale>0.75</viewBoundScale>
  </Icon>
  <LatLonBox>
    <north></north>
    <south></south>
    <east></east>
    <west></west>
  </LatLonBox>
</GroundOverlay>
</kml>



{{User:Slomox/test6}} <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<kml xmlns="http://earth.google.com/kml/2.0">
<GroundOverlay>
  <name></name>
  <Icon>
    <href></href>
    <viewBoundScale>0.75</viewBoundScale>
  </Icon>
  <LatLonBox>
    <north></north>
    <south></south>
    <east></east>
    <west></west>
  </LatLonBox>
</GroundOverlay>
</kml>



{{User:Slomox/test6|0|0}} <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<kml xmlns="http://earth.google.com/kml/2.0">
<GroundOverlay>
  <name></name>
  <Icon>
    <href></href>
    <viewBoundScale>0.75</viewBoundScale>
  </Icon>
  <LatLonBox>
    <north></north>
    <south></south>
    <east></east>
    <west></west>
  </LatLonBox>
</GroundOverlay>
</kml>



The difference is, if you provide the parameter, but it is empty or "0". The parameter default is an "isset" function, when 'if' is a "not empty" function. --Slomox (talk) 10:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Stupid me, I actually made use of this before in a template... 6 months without using wikitext and I forget little things like this. Thanks. 21:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
That reminds me, maybe you'd be up for the challenge. When editing a autotranslated template it's annoying to navigate to the desired subpage (even with a link in my side bar). I was think of making something with {{Special:Prefixindex/{{NAMESPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/}} in a collapsible table and incorporating it into {{documentation subpage}}. Either that or at the very least have a link to the /layout page somewhere. It would make the /doc system a little more useful (especially now that admins are protecting those too). Rocket000(talk) 22:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Some time ago, I created Template:TemplateBox. It's kind of a infobox for templates. Or perhaps better described as a parametrized doc document. One of the parameters is the localization method. If you provide "autotranslate" as localization method, the template automatically looks for existing localizations, presents them in a list and additionally puts a box to create a new localization (it too puts the language set in your preferences in the box, if it doesn't yet exist).
But your method has the advantage, that it is promptly available in a big number of pages. --Slomox (talk) 09:06, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
And the advantage, that it doesn't make use of ifexist parser functions and thus is more friendly to the server. But shouldn't be a big problem, cause that code is not parsed on inclusion. --Slomox (talk) 09:09, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Hm, Special:Prefixindex uses a table. Looks ugly (see above on the right of this thread). Either the box has to be full width or we need a way to break the table cells up. --Slomox (talk) 09:18, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
(Damn, I forgot to watch this page.) Yes, it does look ugly as it is. I remember working with it when I was creating {{MWheader}}, which has a lot of potential but it's unfinished. It allows the user to change not only the interface language but also the skin to view the changes. It can list all subpages and sub-talkpages, which usually go unwatched. Maybe there's some ideas there but this was before auto-translation. Rocket000(talk) 18:43, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I put the subpage listing thing to use on a page that has a lot: MediaWiki talk:Uploadtext. Rocket000(talk) 00:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

File:World homosexuality laws.svg

You may want to check out what your change did to this page. :) Rocket000(talk) 01:33, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm already checking it. I saw it, when I did the edit. I guess, it's something internal in the parser, most likely the length of the title attribute (more than 32k). At least there's no error in my edit. It just wasn't visible before, because somebody had broken the information template.
The easiest way to get rid of that stuff, is to get rid of the code inserting it in {{Information}} (see Template talk:Information#Error with the template). But I don't know what's the purpose of that code. --Slomox (talk) 11:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Me neither. It was added by Bryan a year ago, who never explained it's purpose. I assumed it was for some bot he was working on. Whatever it was for, I don't know if it's needed anymore. Rocket000(talk) 14:41, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
I asked Bryan about it and I asked on Wikitech about the error (which is caused by the parser or tidy). --Slomox (talk) 14:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Ok. BTW, I was just thinking about doing that. ;) Rocket000(talk) 15:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
But it doesn't work yet. BotMultichillT has to change its behaviour first. I'll contact Multichill. --Slomox (talk) 15:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


Tip: Categorizing images

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Hello, Slomox/Archiv!

Tip: Add categories to your images

Thanks a lot for contributing to the Wikimedia Commons! Here's a tip to make your uploads more useful: Why not add some categories to describe them? This will help more people to find and use them.

Here's how:

1) If you're using the UploadWizard, you can add categories to each file when you describe it. Just click "more options" for the file and add the categories which make sense:

Uploadwizard-categories.png

2) You can also pick the file from your list of uploads, edit the file description page, and manually add the category code at the end of the page.

[[Category:Category name]]

For example, if you are uploading a diagram showing the orbits of comets, you add the following code:

[[Category:Astronomical diagrams]]
[[Category:Comets]]

This will make the diagram show up in the categories "Astronomical diagrams" and "Comets".

When picking categories, try to choose a specific category ("Astronomical diagrams") over a generic one ("Illustrations"). Pro-tip: The CommonSense tool can help you find the best category for your image.

Thanks again for your uploads! More information about categorization can be found in Commons:Categories, and don't hesitate to leave a note on the help desk.

BotMultichillT 06:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Location

Hi, I need help again with Location template. If you can perform same edit as in [2] to template:location and edit as in [3] to Template:location dec, that would be a great help. I applied for adminship partially so I can do this kind of corrections by myself, but at the moment I need to ask for help. --Jarekt (talk) 13:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Done. --Slomox (talk) 13:22, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
thanks --Jarekt (talk) 20:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Template:PermissionOTRS multilingual

Hi,

Thanks for your work to add {{Autotranslate}} to the {{PermissionOTRS}}. But please not remove an useful function : the OTRS ticket number. I try to correct it on fr and en translation, but I can't fix it. Can you please take a look on this problem ?

Thanks by advance,--Bapti 17:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

The problem was, that autotranslate can only handle numbered parameters. I changed it. --Slomox (talk) 17:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
O.o that just a little name problem... :) Thanks for your help !--Bapti 17:23, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

template:creator

Could you help me with template:creator? The easiest would be to make page semi-protected instead of protected. Otherwise could you:

  1. make Creator template "collapsed" by default only in files and uncollapsed otherwise that can be accomplished by changing first 2 lines to:
    <div class="vcard"> {| class="toccolours creator collapsible {{ifimage|collapsed}}" border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" style="direction: {{Dir|{{{lang}}}}};"
  2. Create category listing all the pages in the Creator namespace using {{creator}} template by adding
    {{ #ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Creator|[[Category:Creator templates|{{PAGENAME}}]] }}.

--Jarekt (talk) 04:19, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. But the category still needs to be created. --Slomox (talk) 16:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
thanks, I already created the category --Jarekt (talk) 17:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Localization of the dates

Hi there. Apparently many users are worried about Slobot's activity related to the localization of the date field, because they don't understand it. Would you please consider adding a more specific explanation on the bot's user page, and maybe link to it (or to an existing explanation somewhere else) in the bot's diffs? I think it would greatly help. Regards, --Eusebius (talk) 11:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. --Slomox (talk) 15:49, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. --Eusebius (talk) 16:00, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Template:Own

Hallo Slomox. Meine Ergänzung hat leider nichts gebracht. Der Text wird immer noch auf englisch angezeigt, wenn man „de-at“ oder „de-ch“ bei den Spracheinstellungen ausgewählt hat. Weisst du da eine Lösung? Eigentlich sollte hier „de“ ja Fallback sein. --Leyo 09:53, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Sind die beiden neu? Dass man die beiden auswählen kann, hab ich vorher noch nie gesehen.
Die Haupt-Fallback-Sprache muss in {{GetFallback}} eingetragen sein, dann wird automatisch für 'de-ch' und 'de-at' die 'de'-Übersetzung angezeigt und separate Übersetzungen für 'de-ch' und 'de-at' sind nur noch notwendig, wenn diese tatsächlich abweichen. Außerdem fehlten noch die Mediawiki-Nachrichten MediaWiki:Lang/de-ch und MediaWiki:Lang/de-at. Dort muss jeweils der Sprachcode eingetragen sein. Das ganze System der Übersetzerei auf Commons basiert ja im Grunde auf einem Software-Hack. Eigentlich ist es nicht vorgesehen, dass der Sprachcode innerhalb des Seitenquelltexts auswertbar ist. Das geht nur, indem man die Sprachcodes als Pseudo-Systemnachricht abspeichert und über den {{int: ... }}-Mechanismus abruft. --Slomox (talk) 13:55, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Vielen Dank. Damit hast du ja das Problem für viele Vorlagen gelöst. Ähnliche Probleme gibt es übrigens auch in WP: hier und betreffend Commons-Bildlink. --Leyo 14:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Das zweite Problem ist seit dem letzten Software-Update vom 25. März gelöst. Für das erste müsste wohl bugzilla:1495 gelöst werden. Der Bug ist allerdings schon seit 2005 eingetragen. Sieht also nicht aus, als würde das allzubald geschehen... Um redundante Texte zu vermeiden, könnte man aber zumindest in de:MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning/de-ch {{MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning}} eintragen. Damit würde der Text der 'de'-Systemnachricht direkt eingebunden und Änderungen an de:MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning würden sich auch direkt auf de:MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning/de-ch auswirken. Spart zumindest ein bisschen Pflegearbeit. --Slomox (talk) 14:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Danke für die Antwort. Super, dass das zweite Problem inzwischen gelöst ist. Deinen Tipp habe ich umgesetzt (wusste nicht dass diese Art von Einbindung auch bei MediaWiki-Seiten funktioniert). Bei MediaWiki:Gadget-toolserver-integration.js/de-at (und „/de-ch“) hat die Anlage der Seiten nichts genützt. Da muss wohl zusätzlich etwas angepasst werden. --Leyo 15:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Die Seite wird von de:MediaWiki:Gadget-toolserver-integration.js per "&action=raw" eingebunden. Es wird also nur der Quelltext eingelesen und der Quelltext wird nicht in Wikisyntax interpretiert. In dem Fall hilft nur das Einbinden des ganzen Texts oder alternativ das Anpassen von de:MediaWiki:Gadget-toolserver-integration.js (indem man ein bisschen Fallback-Logik einbaut). --Slomox (talk) 15:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Hm, da muss ich mich notgedrungen wohl für erstgenannte Version entscheiden. --Leyo 15:36, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Das klappt auch, dafür brachte das nichts. --Leyo 09:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Was klappt denn da nicht? (Und wann genau wird die Nachricht überhaupt angezeigt?) --Slomox (talk) 15:55, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Das wird nach dem Löschen einer Seite angezeigt (Bestätigung; analog zu MediaWiki:Filedelete-success/de auf Commons). Wenn ich „de-ch“ eingestellt habe, fehlen die Links auf der rechten Seite nach wie vor. --Leyo 16:00, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Aber nur bei Dateien. Für normale Seiten wird MediaWiki:Deletedtext angezeigt. Bei Dateien fehlen die Links rechts nicht. Allerdings wird das "$1" nicht korrekt ersetzt. Das ließe sich eventuell umgehen, wenn man {{MediaWiki:Filedelete-success|$1}} schreibt und in de:MediaWiki:Filedelete-success {{{1|$1}}} verwendet. Hab ich aber nicht getestet, ich weiß nicht hundertprozentig, ob das wirklich funktioniert. --Slomox (talk) 16:16, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Ja, stimmt. Ich habe den einfacheren Weg gewählt und den MediaWiki-Text gesubstet.
Andere Frage: Weshalb wird {{own}} im Upload-Formular nicht verwendet? Weil es unerfahrene Benutzer verwirren könnte? Vielleicht wäre ja beim Upload eine automatische Umwandlung der Vorgabe („Eigenes Werk (own work)“) möglich. --Leyo 10:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Translated /doc pages

What do you think these subpages should be called: ../doc/lang or ../lang/doc? For example, should it be Template:Assessments/doc/he or Template:Assessments/he/doc? The latter makes sense because our {{documentation subpage}} template only recognizes pages that end in /doc, but the other way around may be more logical. Rocket000 (talk) 15:45, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd say: don't have separate pages at all. Put all languages in the main doc. --Slomox (talk) 15:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
That works for me (although when there's a lot, separation would be a good thing, like what I did with {{internationalization template doc}}). Ok, next question: Were you planning to using {{langlist}} more? Like would like to see it applied to everything in Category:Language link templates? I'm mainly asking for consistency sake (it uses bullets instead of pipes). Rocket000 (talk) 16:46, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
At the moment, I don't quite understand {{internationalization template doc}}. Why isn't autotranslate used?
Yes, {{langlist}} was meant as a replacement for the elements in Category:Language link templates to reduce redundancy in them. (I'd prefer {{Lang links}}, but as that template uses #ifexist: it's not usable on a large scale. At the moment {{Lang links}} is mostly used for {{TemplateBox}} on doc pages.) I haven't yet found the time (or energy) to study, whether and how that replacement can be done. My original template used pipes, but another user changed it to bullets. I don't know why he changed it, but I didn't revert it, cause I have no special preference. Feel free to change it back for consistency. --Slomox (talk) 17:27, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
{{internationalization template doc}} was before auto-translation (we knew it was possible but the developers said {{int:}} only did that because of a bug, so we were afraid to start using it). That system's already in place and shows the most relevant languages so I don't really have any desire to change it all again (besides, how hard is it to use something like {{en}}? Documentation isn't crucial here. The categorization/standardization was my main goal.)
{{lang links}} can be used as long as the template isn't high-use or meant to be substituted. I usually use it when I create a new templates and if they ever get >50,000 transclusions then I create the pages manually. Actually, I wouldn't even use something like {{langlist}} to make my job easier.. maybe I'm just too concerned with performance. I just think if the list is already created manually (with most translations already added) then we should leave it, if however, it's a new template that I expect heavy use of, {{langlist}} would be considered. I also take into account how/where the template is used. For example, I put {{lang links}} in {{category redirect}}, which is normally the only thing on the page. The page load stays light and I must say the lack of {{editprotected}} "please add this language!" on the talk page has been nice.
If you could create an alternative for /lang pages like {{lang links}} that doesn't use #ifexists, I would bow down and worship you for your awesome template skills.
I really have no preference either as far as bullets vs. pipes go, so I'll just leave it for now. Rocket000 (talk) 17:56, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Fotothek dates

Hi Slomox, could you have your bot harvest dates from the Fotothek images and update the date field when needed (it's normally empty)? Images are in Category:Images from the Deutsche Fotothek. Multichill (talk) 21:57, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Do you have examples of dates that need updating? I already asked about the date format at Commons talk:Deutsche Fotothek#Datumsformat and got told, that the dates were all YYYY (or YYYY/YYYY).
Or do you mean harvesting from www.deutschefotothek.de? I don't know, how to do that. The Fotothek archives are using Javascript and I cannot even view images with my normal browser... (at least not via the image links on the image pages) --Slomox (talk) 09:39, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I'll respond at Commons talk:Deutsche Fotothek#Datumsformat so everyone can read and talk along at a central place. Multichill (talk) 10:11, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

template:creator again

Hi, I figured out how to best add image parameter to template:creator/layout. Could you replace current code with User:Jarekt/a. See User:Jarekt/c for a test of the new code. Also "| Image = " line will have to be added to template:creator and template:creator/en. I added it to all other languages already. Thanks. --Jarekt (talk) 01:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. --Slomox (talk) 10:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Image in Creator template

Thank you for applying the change to the creator layout. There is only one problem: If the rowspan is less than 7 there is no line under the image which can be seen here: Category:Photographs_by_Eugeniusz_Lokajski. Hope to change to an if statement or something.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 10:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. --Slomox (talk) 11:03, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Could u also make it not need the Image: namespace? One would just enter the file name.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 11:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Done. All existing creator pages with images now need to be fixed (If there are any). --Slomox (talk) 11:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Great u have been really helpful. Last spam though: Could u make the most important info like birth and death date always visible? If u think it's a bad idea then comment on Commons:Village_pump#Template:Creator_collapse. Thanks for the great help. :)
I have no real opinion on whether that information should be visible. I won't change it, cause that could be controversial to some people. --Slomox (talk) 11:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I would do the same. Thanks for the great help. If u have some time u could look at what's the problem of one of the templates at Template_talk:Creator#Include_images_of_creators.3F--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 11:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Date in creator template

User:Jarekt has proposed an implementation of the birth and death date of the Creator template. It has been posted there could u please double check it on Template_talk:Creator#Proposed_change:_dates_of_death.2Fbirth? The change has been applied but nothing seems to change. Could u take a look?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. --Slomox (talk) 23:46, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Commons:Help desk#Category in itself?

Hi Slomox, fällt die Spontan eine bessere Lösung für Category:Category redirects und Special:UnusedCategories ein? Dachte ich frag mal da du was sowas betriffst einiges an Kreativität mitbringst :) --Martin H. (talk) 14:36, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Rocket000 schreibt ja, dass das nur eine vorübergehende Maßnahme ist. Warten wir also erstmal ab. Spontan hab ich noch keine Idee, wie man das besser lösen kann. --Slomox (talk) 08:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Autotraslate/fallback issue

The problem with having no default language: {{Cc-by-3.0-cz}}. It assumes that there's always an English (/en) version to fallback back on. Rocket000 (talk) 01:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

We could add an additional parameter "|fallback=cs" to manually define a different fallback, but that means changes to several templates. I guess, the easiest way to solve the problem, is to just add the English translation. --Slomox (talk) 02:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
That's what I was thinking. :) (It is a rare case.) Rocket000 (talk) 02:40, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Heh, it was basically already created. I just copied the doc word for word. Rocket000 (talk) 02:42, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Template:Lang

I think you are making things way too confusing with that doc template. Why is all the junk necessary? It appears that even you don't read it (see usage)... And what good is telling people that "this part of the documentation is only available in some languages"? Do you really think we will ever have descriptions in every language? Rocket000 (talk) 00:26, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

It appears that even you don't read it (see usage)... That's a rather distorted argument...
You can call it junk or you can call it relevant information. And that it is: information relevant to document the template. If you want to improve the template, feel free to suggest improvements. But general complaints about a template that generally is useful will not help.
Do you really think we will ever have descriptions in every language? Not all, but several. TemplateBox is translatable and the set of supported languages for TemplateBox and the doc page will not always correspondend. Therefore the sentence "this part of the documentation is only available in some languages". --Slomox (talk) 00:36, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Ok, then. As long as your happy with it. :) Rocket000 (talk) 16:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Very happy. --Slomox (talk) 16:51, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Template:Shortcut

This isn't suppose to be a box. That's why there's {{shortcut2}} (and others). Rocket000 (talk) 01:13, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Autotranslate request

Hi Slomox, when you autotranslate a license template could you use <includeonly>{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|File|{{{category|[[Category:<the category>|{{PAGENAME}}]]}}}}}</includeonly> to add the category and include {{In category|the category}} in the main template? Thank you, Multichill (talk) 12:42, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Looper de loop

At Template:Potd/2009-04-24 (en) probably because you changed {{Potd page}}. Could you have a look at it? Multichill (talk) 09:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Damn, I defeated myself. I pressed to make the description a parameter and now I got a template loop from that... Well, then without image. --Slomox (talk) 13:33, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Clickable maps

Hello. I saw you deleted Template:Clickable width. More importantly, you saw the clickable Roman Forum images!  :) How do you like them? I wasn't sure what the best approach was for them. Just leave them in the image as I did? Or maybe they should be collected somewhere? I didn't find too many other clickable images but I'd be happy creating more if people think they're useful. Wknight94 (talk) 17:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I have no real opinion. It's a fancy feature, but creating maps like that is too time-consuming to ever become a widely used feature, I guess. A similar feature exists with Template:Imagebox (just simple boxes). But it's also not really used. --Slomox (talk) 18:04, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

More error checking in location dec template

Hi can you add to {{location dec}} this additional testing? It is meant to catch cases when someone uses {{location}} parameters in {{location dec}} template? I used File:Climbing_in_Joshua_Tree_NP.jpg as test image. --Jarekt (talk) 03:23, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. --Slomox (talk) 13:31, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Only 44 problematic files --Jarekt (talk) 16:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Provinces of North Korea.PNG

Sorry about that check [4] in 2004 it says Rasŏn is dissolved back into North Hamgyong. ASDFGHJ (talk) 09:16, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Problem with {{Description}}

Hi Slomox,
I won't lynch you :), but I just realized that this change broke several pages where {{en}}, {{fr}} and so on are used, as it introduce a carriage return instead of a beeing rendered as a single space character (it seems to be a bug in the MediaWiki parser; see comments on the template talk page).
Cas you tell me in which cases you need to introduce this chage? If necessary, we could add a new parameter to force the introduction of a carriage return...
Best regards from France,
-- AlNo (discuter/talk/hablar/falar) 17:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

It seems - due to the internals of the parser - that it is not possible to have both things working at the same time: using the templates in list-style elements and using the templates with wiki syntax inside them.
:{{en|foo}}
:{{fr|bar}}
will only work without linebreak and
{{en|
:foo
:bar
}}
will only work with linebreak.
I have no idea which of both is more common and which should thus be preferred. But most likely the version without linebreak is better, cause with
{{en|<nowiki/>
:foo
:bar
}}
there is a workaround for the second case while there is no good workaround for the first case. --Slomox (talk) 19:08, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Then I suggest we introduce a new parameter (say, list) for the last case you mention, in order to add the needed CR. This would make the template core look like:
{{#if:{{{inline|}}}|<span class="description {{{1}}}" lang="{{{4|{{{1}}}}}}">|<div class="description {{{1}}}" lang="{{{4|{{{1}}}}}}">}}<span class="language {{{1}}}" title="{{{name|{{{3|}}}}}}">'''{{#language:{{{1}}}}}{{{5|}}}:'''</span>{{#if{{{list|}}}|
|}}{{{2|}}}{{#if:{{{inline|}}}|</span>|</div>}}
-- AlNo (discuter/talk/hablar/falar) 08:11, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
That won't work. All empty space at the start and at the end of parameters, parser function values etc. gets stripped. So the #if: would add nothing. It is possible to avoid the stripping of empty space with <nowiki/> tags:
{{#if: {{{list|}}} |<nowiki/>
<nowiki/>|}}
would indeed add a line break. But that doesn't help, cause then we have <nowiki/> at the start of the new line. --Slomox (talk) 13:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for your explanations.
It seems to me that the first kind of usage is more widely present; I've only seen the other in a few image description pages (as legends for example).
Then let's revert the template to its original state and add the nowiki tag where needed... :)
Maybe a bot could do the job of adding the nowiki tags?
Best regards,
-- AlNo (discuter/talk/hablar/falar) 07:58, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I changed the template. About running a bot: I wrote a Regex for that. I will try a bot run as soon as my bot is ready with its current task. It looks for wiki syntax that needs to be at the start of the line. That is: lists with #, *, : or ; and headings starting with =. Are there any other elements I have to look for? --Slomox (talk) 13:20, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
And "----" I forgot. But I think that's it. --Slomox (talk) 13:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
The bot run is done and most occurences are fixed. Some instances may remain which where not covered to make the Regex not too complex or which are from a younger date (the dump the bot operates on is some weeks old). --Slomox (talk) 23:10, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

EU27-states with applications.svg

Hi Solomox, "Albania formally applied for EU candidacy on the 28th of April 2009", yes, but this doesn't make it a candidate country. It's just the first step in this direction, see en:Future enlargement of the European Union. --Kolja21 (talk) 00:50, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for improving the RTL language headlines

I just wanted to thank you for your great work on MediaWiki:Rtl.css. You have really helped advancing the Usability of Commons. Thank you.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 19:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Another little issue with {{autotransate}}

Ok, it's not really the template's fault, but how would you make it work in a situation like this? I was thinking of simply subst'ing the attribution template in place and making it one complete template, but then we lose the translations (of the important part). Rocket000 (talk) 22:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

It's possible by using {{Fallback}} directly. See my edit on the template. --Slomox (talk) 22:30, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I see. I didn't even think about skipping past the autotranslate template. Rocket000 (talk) 08:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Gustav III

Moin Slomox, Dat is ja gout dat ik hier grunnugs skrieven kin! As antwoord op dit: taikening van Ehrensvärd is relevant in artikels om Gustav III en zien keuningin omdat haile geschiedenis med Munk ook beschreevm stait in dei artikels. Dit is woarschienlijk wat mensen waiten om heur, ook als ze heur noam nait kennen. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 15:22, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

omdat haile geschiedenis med Munk ook beschreevm stait in dei artikels Dar stait veel to veel över de Saak, dat Munck jem hulpen hett. Vergleken mit de Grött von den Rest Artikel. Wi schullen natürlich ok över den Gossip wat schrieven, aver de Artikel schull doch man in de Höövdsaak över de Person wesen. Sofia Magdalena un Gustav hebbt dat mit den Sex nich so hatt un hebbt en beten Hülp bruukt. Dat is allens, wat wi weten doot. De Rest is Gossip. 230 Jahr olen Gossip. För mi blifft dat darbi: Dat Bild is nich relevant in dennen Artikel. Aver dat heff ik ja ok seggt: Ik heff dat nich to seggen. Dat hebbt de Sweden to seggen. --Slomox (talk) 15:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Great to understand Dutch so well! Please remove the drawings now from the articles on English and Swedish WP! Please! EmilEikS (talk) 15:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
And by the way, Slomox, your assessment of the whole thing is perfectly clear and accurate as written here. Thank you! EmilEikS (talk) 16:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Slomox, En keuningins belangriekste pligt in t leven was/is n kroonprins te boaren. Doarom wur der zo veul proat en schreevm om Gustav III:s sexleven. Veul mensen dochten dat Gustav nait de voader was, en dat misschain de troon noar breudern goan zol. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 16:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Slobot and date format

Hi, something is wrong: 08. 2003 =/= 08.08.2003(2003-08-08). So, look here: April 2004 => 4 August 2004. Maybe '2004-04' will be a good format ;) Thx for your work. Przykuta (talk) 08:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

The bot uses a list of month names in the form "(August|Augusto|Augustus|Augusti|Aug|...)" to make the replacements. But at one point accidentally there were two | in a row, which means 'empty string'. Therefore the bot replaced also dates where no month name was given at all.
Only August is affected, January til July were all replaced correctly. I will have a look at all replacements for August and fix all wrong replacements. --Slomox (talk) 14:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Datum: Expression error: Unexpected < operator

Als Beispiel File:Hermitage.jpg, 1901-1910 wird hier als Datum im Info template nicht richtig gelesen. --Martin H. (talk) 03:07, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Ich hab eine zusätzliche Fehlerüberprüfung in {{ISOdate}} eingebaut, die das Problem behebt (und ich habe die Datei bearbeitet, aber das ist nicht Teil der Fehlerbehebung. {{other date}} kann benutzt werden, um einerseits "komplexere" Datumsnotationen lokalisierbar zu machen und außerdem um den Zahlen etwas mehr Kontext zu geben ["1901-1910" ist ja zweideutig, kann "von 1901 bis 1910" heißen, oder auch "irgendwann zwischen 1901 und 1910"]). --Slomox (talk) 03:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Hervorragend, danke. Auch wenn die Vorlage other date wahrscheinlich nicht so häufig genutzt werden wird. --Martin H. (talk) 03:41, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for dates format

Hi, Slomox.

Your bot, Slobot, fix date formats on Commons. It's fine. I understood the format to use : 2009-4-28. Now, I use it every time. Thanks for the fix.
Best regards from France, --Tangopaso (talk) 18:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
PS : Why dont you like France or french people ?

"2009-4-28" would be rendered correctly, but the most correct form would be "2009-04-28" (fr:ISO 8601).
Why dont you like France or french people ? There's a link with the image: User:Slomox/France. Although I indeed agree to what I say in the text, the text is of course a bit exaggerated. It is to be seen as a transplantation of the OsamaK freedom of speech issue transplanted to a setting involving much less pre-existing emotions. If you don't know the OsamaK dispute, see his userpage and discussions like this. --Slomox (talk) 19:31, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
About France : OK, I understand. The problem betwwen Israel and palestinians is absolutely different. Two remarks :
  • It is true that using local languages was forbidden until 1920's (I have basque ancestors). But it was to unit people and the country. Two centuries ago, each french region had its own measures, its own currency, its own local time, its own language. Now, we are united. But incoming people from arabic or african countries may speak their language and the french identity is disappearing. Alas !
  • Perhaps we forbade usage of local language, but we didn't kill people as US did with the indians. And we never imported slaves from Africa. But I do like US and US people. :-) --Tangopaso (talk) 20:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
But it was to unit people and the country. Yes it was. But nobody asked the people whether they wanted to be united. What would you say, if the European Union decided, that everybody in Europe should only speak English from now on? Would you say "Oh yeah, French is retarded, English will pave our way to progress and unity!" I guess not. It's easy to be pro unity, if your vision of unity is, that everybody else changes anything they are, while you just stay the way you are. --Slomox (talk) 22:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Commons:Undeletion requests/Current requests#Periodic_table_templates

Someone want's some templates you deleted restored. Rocket000 (talk) 01:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Template:VN/title

Hallo, Slomox, du hast die englische Überschrift zum "template:VN" zurückgesetzt. Ich hätte eher von jemandem, der die englische Sprache als Muttersprache beherrscht, eine andere Übersetzung als Korrektur erwartet. "Vernacular names" bedeutet übersetzt soviel wie "Mundart-Namen" oder wie im deutschen der Redewendung "volkstümliche Namen" benutzt wird. Im Gegensatz zu den wissenschaftlichen, lateinischen Namen bei Pflanzen und Tieren ist dieser Sprachgebrauch üblich. Wenn ich aber, wie z.B. auf dieser Seite Barack Obama die Namen in Schriften mit nichtlateinischen Buchstaben als Header einsetze, macht der "Mundart" - Begriff nicht besonders viel Sinn. Grüß. Orchi (talk) 23:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Laut w:en:Common name ist "vernacular name" eine übliche Bezeichnung. Und für Bio-Artikel ist die Vorlage entworfen. Mit "countries" ist es auf jeden Fall keine Verbesserung. --Slomox (talk) 00:23, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

{{other date}}

Sorry about this I thought I check my edits and then rechecked them after you found the first problem. --Jarekt (talk) 03:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Verwendung des Dateityps in Vorlagen

Hallo Slomox. Ich frage dich, weil du technisch einer der versierten Benutzer bist, die ich kenne: MediaWiki erkennt ja den Dateityp (MIME-Typ). Ist es möglich, diesen für Vorlagen „zugänglich“ zu machen? Die hier gefundene Lösung braucht anscheinend zu viele Ressourcen. --Leyo 16:53, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Ich wusste gar nicht, dass es bereits einen Hack gibt, um die String-Funktionen zu emulieren. Dass diese gehackten und ineffizienten Funktionen bereits in Gebrauch sind, wäre ein gutes Argument, die "echten" String-Funktionen (bugzilla:6455) endlich zu aktivieren.
Solange die nicht zur Verfügung stehen, wäre Javascript vielleicht eine Alternative. Der Skript ermittelt den Dateityp aus dem Dateinamen und könnte dann entsprechend Text oder Links einblenden. Wäre auf jeden Fall die bessere Übergangslösung bis zum Aktivieren der String-Funktionen, statt einen Bot loszuschicken. --Slomox (talk) 11:39, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Vielen Dank für deine ausführliche Antwort. Kannst du diese vielleicht hierhin schreiben und gleich deine Idee mit Javascript etwas näher erläutern? --Leyo 15:03, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Könnte zum Beispiel so aussehen (einfach mal in der eigenen Special:Mypage/monobook.js einfügen). Kann man natürlich optisch noch etwas aufpolieren. --Slomox (talk) 21:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Vielen Dank. Ich habe deine Variante, die mir gut gefällt, erfolgreich getestet und zur Debatte gestellt. So etwas sollte man IMHO auch auf Commons einführen. --Leyo 07:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Ein Anliegen habe ich doch noch: Könnte man eine Weiche einführen, die abhängig davon ob ein Bild auf de-WP oder auf Commons liegt, die URL anpasst? Im „Wikistyle“ würde ich das hinkriegen (so oder ähnlich), aber mit JS kenne ich mich schlecht aus. Ich habe dein Skript nur mit Bildern auf de-WP getestet, da ich fälschlicherweise dachte, dass es bei von Commons eingebundenen keine Links hinzufügt. --Leyo 17:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Siehe [5]. --Slomox (talk) 22:20, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Herzlichen Dank. Ich hab's zur Ergänzung der Common.js vorgeschlagen. --Leyo 23:32, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

In der de-WP ist's nun live. Soll ich's auch auf Commons (MediaWiki talk:Common.js) zur Ergänzung vorschlagen? --Leyo 20:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Sollte dann gleich noch etwas erweitert werden um ein paar Zusatzinfos zu SVGs (siehe zum Beispiel Commons:Village pump/Archive/2009May#SVG Images). --Slomox (talk) 13:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Gute Idee. Ich hab's jetzt dort zur Diskussion gestellt. --Leyo 14:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Zur Kenntnis: Das sollte dann auf Commons ggf. auch berücksichtigt werden. --Leyo 11:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Superseding

I undid this edit. Please take a look at Commons:Deletion requests/Superseded. Multichill (talk) 12:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

More about date templates

Two issues:

  1. {{other date|or|1939|1940|th}} produces: "1939 or 1940". I am not sure why.
  2. Some {{other date}} options require genitive form of the month name (example: {{other date|-|1939-01|1945-02|pl}}). Dates in form YYYY-MM-DD show months in genitive form, but dates in YYYY-MM format do not. I would like to propose adding a parameter (for example form) to {{ISOdate}} and form=gen would show all months in genitive form.

Thanks --Jarekt (talk) 17:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The second is possible now. You can add now |form=gen to all forms on {{other date}} where it is necessary.
The first issue is connected with the fact, that Thai uses a different calendar system: {{ISOdate|2009|th}} = . It's not possible to tell the Thai year for a year of the Christian era if it's before 1940 and if you don't know the exact date, cause before 1940 the years started 1 April (since 1940 1 January). So I implemented it with {{other date}} to let it say "Thai year X or Thai year X+1". Which of course collides, if you use it with {{other date}}. I have to create another solution for that. --Slomox (talk) 18:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
The template loop is fixed now, but it still looks ... not very good. Perhaps a "/" would look better than a written out "หรือ", but "2481/2482 หรือ 2482/2483" is still not perfect. At the moment I don't know any good solution. --Slomox (talk) 18:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
That worked. Polish version of before and after options with YYYY-MM date (like {{other date|after|1999-01|pl}}) is still not right, since it need yet another form of the month, but I would say that it is good enough for now. --Jarekt (talk) 02:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The mechanism to provide case information is established now. If, for example, "after" calls for Dative, then just use "|form=dat" in {{other date}} and create twelve messages like Mediawiki:January-dat/pl. Then edit {{date}} and change the line for Polish so it calls those messages if "form" is set to "dat". If we can do it right, we should. --Slomox (talk) 12:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately I am not an admin and can not edit Mediawiki namespace or {{date}}, that is why I always have to ask for help. I tried to become an admin but apparently one need to do more work with deletions to become one. I will need to add forms for 2 more cases: Instrumental and Locative. One for before and one for after. I do not like the idea of creating {{I18n month-ins}} and {{I18n month-loc}} . I was thinking that a cleaner solution might be to add 3rd argument to {{I18n month}} template that one can set to: nom for Nominative case, gen for genitive, loc for Locative and inst for Instrumental. That way in {{date}} template parameter form can be just passed to the {{I18n month}} template without the case statement. I am also not sure about how Mediawiki namespace works. What is the relationship between for example Mediawiki:January-gen/pl and {{int:January-gen/pl}}? --Jarekt (talk) 04:25, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately I am not an admin and can not edit Mediawiki namespace or {{date}} Just tell me the forms and I can create it for you.
I was thinking that a cleaner solution might be to add 3rd argument to {{I18n month}} The needed additional logic will be the same as if we implement it in {{date}}. I don't see a big difference. {{I18n month}} is just a mapping template, while {{date}} is a formatting template. I'd say, {{date}} is the better place.
What is the relationship between for example Mediawiki:January-gen/pl and {{int:January-gen/pl}}? The first is the message and the second is a method to access it. {{int:...}} normally is used without the language code: {{int:January-gen}}. It would then return the appropiate localised messages. --Slomox (talk) 11:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Just tell me the forms and I can create it for you. Here they are:
  • Locative case: (used with after): styczniu, lutym, marcu, kwietniu, maju, czerwcu, lipcu, sierpniu, wrześniu, paźdźerniku, listopadzie, grudniu
  • Instrumental case: used with before: styczniem, lutym, marcem, kwietniem, majem, czerwcem, lipcem, sierpniem, wrześniem, paźdźernikiem, listopadem, grudniem
About the relationship between [[Mediawiki:anything]] and {{int:anything}}. So as far as I understand {{int:anything}} will show localized message extracted from Mediawiki:anything and its subpages. but there is no page template:int:anything so it has to be somehow hardwired.
Lately I found your Template:Lifetime date. Maybe it should be merged with Template:Other date so all those phrases are together. That would make it easier to remember and easier for people to translate. Just a thought. Thanks for your help --Jarekt (talk) 02:09, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Locative and instrumental should work now (please have a check).
{{Other date}} is for any date, while {{Lifetime date}} gives the date a specific context. I don't think they should be merged. (And you can actually combine them: "before 5 March 1899 (baptised)", which wouldn't be possible with only one template.) --Slomox (talk) 15:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Works great. Shall we rewrite {{I18n month-gen}} as "{{I18n month| {{{1}}}| {{#if: {{{2|}}} | {{{2|}}} }} |form=gen}}"? --Jarekt (talk) 17:48, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, that makes sense. --Slomox (talk) 22:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Can you change it? I can't and {{editprotected}} does not seem to ever work. --Jarekt (talk) 15:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
I replaced the template in {{date}}. If it's not used anywhere else, we could delete {{I18n month-gen}}. I'll wait some time and if no inclusions remain, I'll delete it. --Slomox (talk) 20:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, that is an even better solution. --Jarekt (talk) 02:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Localization in Commons

Hi. I see you are interested in localization in Commons. By now, I'm helping you with date conversion (see User:Emijrpbot). But this is not all. There are many image pages like this, with sections and source parameters in many languages. So, I think we can share ideas and proposing them to Commons community in the next weeks/months. Also, I'm involved in putting interwikis in galleries, here on Commons, and creating redirects to common words (Spain). Regards. emijrp (talk) 15:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Changing synonyms of "own work" to {{own}} is already one of the jobs of Slobot. Regarding "description" and "license" headings my opinion is, that they should be removed completely. The information template already indicates, that it provides a description, so there's no ned for a section that says "description". The license should go into the license parameter of the information template and so there is no need for a section heading "license". But I have not yet worked on that, cause in the past I have encountered people who seem to like the sections for a reason unknown to me. Finding some consensus to remove them would be good.
About the redirects: That's definitely something, I won't work on. A technical solution getting synonyms from OmegaWiki or a yet to be created central interwiki repository would be much better than creating redirects. This technical solution is far, far away, so creating redirects in the meantime is useful, but I leave that field to others.
About Emijrpbot: What are the RegExes the bot works with? I needed some time to create RegExes that worked flawlessly (not operating between nowiki tags was a problem at first). Perhaps the bots can profit from solutions or tricks the other has found.
I use different RegEx versions for every month, for "January 01" vs. "01 January" and for dates with and without a leading zero. Example for dates of October with leading zero in "October 01" order:

D:\py\replace.py -regex -nocase -dotall -always -exceptinsidetag:nowiki -namespace:6 -xml:"D:\py\com.xml" -summary:"normalize date format to allow localization" "(\{\{Information\s*\|(?:(?:.(?!nowiki))+\|)?\s*date\s*=\s*)(?:Oktober|October|Okt|Oct|Octobre|Oktobre|Ottobre|Octobris|Octobr|Oktobr|Octo|Okto|Octob|Oktob|Octoberus|Oktobro|Octobro|Octobri|Oktobri|Oktobar|Octobar|Octoba|Oktoba|Říjen|Oktubre|Octubre|Ochobre|Otubre|Urri|Otubri|Oktoober|Ekim|Lokakuu|Tetori|Octombrie|Outubro|Październik|Octòbre|Ottovre|Ottubru|Spalis|Kewçêr|Október)[/\., -]+(01|02|03|04|05|06|07|08|09|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18|19|20|21|22|23|24|25|26|27|28|29|30|31)(?:st|nd|rd|th)?[/\., -]+([12]\d\d\d)\.?((?:\s*\|(?:.(?!nowiki))+)?\}\})" "\1\3-10-\2\4"

--Slomox (talk) 16:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi guys, maybe move this to a more central place? Maybe Commons talk:Template i18n? Would be nice to combine all changes in one bot. Things to change:
Probably more. Multichill (talk) 16:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Latest change to date template

Hi, can you please undo your latest change to Template:Date? It seems to have broken Greek format, which currently displays something like that:

29 MediaWiki:May long-gen/el 2008

Thanks. --Ferengi (talk) 15:26, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I fixed it in {{I18n month}}. Cause in the case of May the English name of the month and the English three-letter abbreviation are identical, some clever guy has chosen to distinguish the MediaWiki messages by adding "_long" to the name of the message with the full name. That makes the naming scheme of the messages irregular. The template did not properly reflect the irregularities. It should work now. --Slomox (talk) 15:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, working great, thanks! --Ferengi (talk) 17:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Erzgebirgisch

This is about File:Karte erzgebirgisch.png. Somehow, Low Saxon can be seen in the map, it is the lime in the top of the map. Unfortunately the yellowish green for Middle German dialects and the greenish yellow for Upper German dialects seems to use the same colour.

Or, in other words, one map of Erzgebirgisch is useful IMHO, because it explains one of the "holes" in Low Saxon language maps. For Saterlands and Berlinisch one map could be useful too. Erik Warmelink (talk) 19:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

There's no linguistic data present in the image except for the (rough) outlines of Erzgebirgian in red. Anything else is just political borders of Germany. --Slomox (talk) 20:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, those political borders in Germany are shown in bright, flashy ... drum roll ... grey. ;-)
I admit this isn't the best map of Erzgebirgian that could be made, but it is the best we have. And to explain why I am so interested in "holes" in linguistic maps, my mother was from nl:Vriezenveen/nds-nl:t Vjenne. But well, without nds:Hendrik Entjes I probably wouldn't have known that nl:Vriezenveens/nds-nl:Vjens was a language "isolate" (well, not like Basque of course, but still surrounded by quite massive concentrations of isoglosses for a dialect of a language continuum located within that same continuum). Erik Warmelink (talk) 22:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Deinen 8.7kB Textklotz...

...im Commons:Forum finde ich toll. Wollte ich nur mal gesagt haben ;-). --Dschwen (talk) 20:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Preference Problem

Hey Slomox, could u please have a look at Commons:Village_pump#Aligning_rtl_langugaes_in_Preferences? Would really help.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


Template:Svg file

Commons-emblem-issue.svg Template:Svg file has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this template, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue.
Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!


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--Ysangkok (talk) 14:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

MediaWiki_talk:Rtl.css#Special_pages

According to the page history, you wrote this CSS - Gerard has found a problem with it. Are you able to help figure this out and fix it? Thanks  — Mike.lifeguard 23:00, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Date change in creator templates

Hi, I noticed that often dates in Creator templates are not in ISO format when they could. Could you run your bot and convert as many as possible. I realize that many of them need {{other date}} template and that one is not east to put by a bot. --Jarekt (talk) 03:07, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

It's already on my list, but it will take some time. --Slomox (talk) 11:33, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Low German translations needed

Hi! I contact you as you speak English and Low German.

Jastrow and I are working on autotranslating {{Meta information museum}}, the meta-template we use for many museums, like {{Information Louvre}}. Could you please help us find Low German translations for every tag name:

   * artist/maker
   * description
   * dimensions
   * credit line
   * accession number
   * location
   * source/photographer
   * references
   * other versions

"Credit line" is mainly about the mode of acquisition: what collection does it come from? Did it join the collections by gift, purchase, on loan, etc.?

Thanks for any help. Bibi Saint-Pol (sprechen) 10:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I created Template:Meta information museum/nds. --Slomox (talk) 10:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
By the way, if you have contacted more users about this: How about creating some kind of list with people interested in translating templates into their respective native languages? At the moment translations are mostly created by chance. A user stumbles over an untranslated template and if he happens to know how to do it, he will perhaps translate it. There should be some kind of coordinated effort to this. A list where template creators (or template carers) can announce their new templates or call for translations of existing templates so that a bigger number of "translation-eager" users becomes aware of it. --Slomox (talk) 11:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot!
You put a good question actually. I wrote to dozens of users, whith more or less success. My method was to detect which user already contributed in translations (by browsing the templates history). This is quite time-consuming, but quite efficient too.
It could be a good idea to create a Commons page (like Commons:Request for translations) and also dedicated user templates/categories (“I'm ready to help for translations in [language parameter]”). But the lack of a proper framework for translating in Mediawiki (we currently supply abstract and magical operations to try and fix it) will still be an obstacle to a truly and systematic process IMO. Bibi Saint-Pol (sprechen) 11:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Category:Images using translated tags

I almost removed this category from {{translated tag}} thinking that it no longer served a purpose since {{translated tag}} should now always be noincluded. Meaning that even if a translation is used directly no category would be added... yet files keep finding their way in there. I investigated and listed the reasons on that page. It seems like I accidentally discovered an actual use of the unwanted effect autotranslating has on the link tables. It can help us find the translated templates that need updating, like PD-old/no. Currently, most the images in that category have a {{PD-old}} and obviously the user was using the /no interface. Rocket000 (talk) 20:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot one of the reasons why I'm telling you about this. What's a good name for the category? Rocket000 (talk) 21:05, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I would just stick to the name it has now. At least I don't know a good alternative at the moment. --Slomox (talk) 22:44, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

More proposed changes to {{creator}}

I was thinking about simplifying instructions for using creator template. Right now we recommend to fill:

{{Creator
...
}}
<noinclude> <!-- Categorization for [[Creator:NAME SURNAME]] page only, not for files using it -->
 [[Category:NAME SURNAME]]    <!-- Suggested category -->
</noinclude>

template. But judging by some users trying to use it, a lot of people are confused by <noinclude> section so I would like to propose adding an extra field Homecat and add within {{ #ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Creator| ...}} block of {{creator}} the line {{ #if:{{{Homecat|}}} | [[Category:{{Homecat}}| ]] }}. That way we can remove <noinclude> section from recommended use example. Of course at present this parameter will be only useful for less than 1% of creator templates which use <noinclude> section instead of just adding category to all images and the template. --Jarekt (talk) 13:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Template:GetFallback

Hi, can you please add a fallback vec -> it in Template:GetFallback / Template:GetFallback2 (by the way, what's the difference between them?). Thanks, Candalua (talk) 19:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I've posted my request on Template talk:GetFallback. Candalua (talk) 21:48, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

/LANGCODE

Hallo, da du ja {{TemplateBox}} erstellt hast, dachte ich, dass du wohl der richtige Ansprechpartner dafür bist. Es gab, nicht nur in letzter Zeit immer wieder gerne Leute, die die Vorlagenseite /LANGCODE nach Drücken des Buttons in dieser Vorlage erstellt haben (Category:Commons templates-LANGCODE). Da dies jedoch nahezu immer reine Kopien der englischen Version sind, wollte ich einfach mal fragen, ob du ggf. was an der Vorlage ändern könntest, um dies zu verhindern? Ich hatte ansonsten überlegt, sowas ggf. durch die MediaWiki:Titleblacklist verbieten zu lassen, aber zum einen sind meine Regex-Kenntnisse noch sehr gering und zum anderen muss man ja nicht immer alles verbieten, wenn es auch einfachere Lösungen gibt. Ich fänds super, wenn du helfen könntest. --The Evil IP address (talk) 16:19, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Nein, was der Benutzer in das Textfeld eingibt (oder eben nicht eingibt), lässt sich mit MediaWiki-Bordmitteln nicht überprüfen. Einen anderen Default einzugeben, bringt auch nichts, da die problematischen Edits dann eben andere Seiten abkriegen. Was eventuell funktionieren würde, wäre eine Javascript-Lösung. Aber ich vermute, das wäre auf Spatzen mit Kanonen, so oft kommt das vermutlich auch nicht vor, dass man jetzt sämtliche Commons-Benutzer mit extra Javascript beglücken müsste.
Titleblacklist wäre vermutlich die einfachste Lösung. --Slomox (talk) 20:46, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Wenn es nicht anders geht, dann sei es wohl so. Danke für die Antwort. --The Evil IP address (talk) 16:17, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Date YYYY-MM doesn't work anymore

Hello Slomox, Since a few weeks, dates in format YYYY-MM in description don't work anymore. Now, writing 2009-08 gives 2009-08 (unchanged). Before, it gave: August 2009 for an english user (or "Août 2009" for french user). Dates like YYYY-MM-DD are still working (appearing localized in user language). Could you repair it please ? Regards, Jack ma (talk) 15:19, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

In fact: File:Bonnieure 2.JPG (2007-09) won't show correctly. But 2007-05 will. Strange... Jack ma (talk) 15:25, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

The problem was the unintuitive behaviour of {{#time: }}. A date like "2007-09" without a day specified is interpreted as if the day was the same as today. So "2007-09" is interpreted like "2007-09-31" cause today we have August _31_. That behaviour is ridiculous, but still it's that way. And as September has no 31st the 31st of September is further interpreted as 1st of October. And at that point the internal logic of {{ISOdate}} fails, cause the month is wrong then. So this problem only occurs when a page is rendered on a 31st of a month (or on 29-31 for February).
I now inserted an additional case in the template that should catch the problem. (Hopefully I have not injected new bugs with the code, as it uses a different type of logic to assess, whether a date is in the form "YYYY-MM"...)
(Life would be so much easier if {{#time: }} wouldn't suck so much...) --Slomox (talk) 18:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, it seems to work now (I was lucky till now not to have noticed this small bug, only working with 31 day months I suppose ;-) Maybe another solution would have been to interprete YYYY-MM as YYYY-MM-28 instead of 31 (or -01) ? Jack ma (talk) 20:48, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Internationalization or i18n

I've found little information on internationalization or i18n (guidelines, policy, etc.) in help or commons namespaces. I thought your screed might serve as a starting point.[6] Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:55, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to use the page. I'd really appreciate if we could establish some kind of translators' community that works on localization in an organized way and if we could provide more info on how localization and internationalization work. --Slomox (talk) 21:41, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Simplify Template:LangSwitch

Hello!

I think we could simplify the Template:LangSwitch because:

{{#if: {{{lang|}}} |{{{lang}}}|{{int:Lang}}}}

appears six times, but it seems to have the same functionality as

{{{lang|{{int:Lang}}}}}

And IIRC this is also more efficient. What do you think? Helder 14:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

By the way, at Template:GetFallback and Template:GetFallback2 we also have
{{#if: {{{1|}}} |{{{1}}}|{{int:Lang}}}}
which is equivalent to
{{{1|{{int:Lang}}}}}
. Helder 14:45, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
It's not identical! If {{{lang}}} is defined, but empty, then {{{lang|{{int:Lang}}}}} will result in an empty string, while {{#if: {{{1|}}} |{{{1}}}|{{int:Lang}}}} will result in {{int:Lang}}. --Slomox (talk) 16:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Hum... I understand. But, in which cases {{{lang}}} is defined but empty? Helder 17:43, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
E.g. if you use {{LangSwitch|lang=}}. Then {{{lang}}} is defined, but it is an empty string. --Slomox (talk) 19:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Ok. Thanks!
I have another question: do you know if it is possible to make a template to show one thing if the user is logged in and another if it is not? Helder 23:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
No, that's not possible with wiki syntax only. It is possible with Javascript, but as the Javascript needs to be set in the site-wide Javascript file, this can only be done, if it solves a very important issue. --Slomox (talk) 12:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Hummm.. I will think about this... Thank you again! Helder 17:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

{{VN}} and {{VN/title}}

Hello my friend,
Could you create the page nds:Naam in de verscheden Spraken or find me a synonym page ?
The pupose is to put a link in {{VN/title}} for nds=.
By the way, I only speak french and english.
Cheers Liné1 (talk) 09:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot my friend. Cheers Liné1 (talk) 14:36, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Template:Image template notice

Hi Slomox, ich habe in der Vorlage eine Erweiterung vorgenommen um falsch platzierte Dateien zu finden, ein einfacher CatScan der in der Kategorie (urlencode:PAGENAME) nach Seiten sucht, die das Template ({{{1}}}) nicht tragen. Funktioniert leider nicht richitg, da das Template, der Parameter 1, ja auch Leerzeichen beinhalten kann und der Weblink dann unterbrochen wird. Siehe z.B. Category:Coats of arms of Norway, ist zwar eine schlecht benannte Kategorie mit sicherlich vielen Treffern aber als Beispiel gerade ok. Der CatScan Link bricht im Vorlagennamen "Norwegian coat of arms" beim ersten Leerzeichen ab. Kann ich das Problem beheben ohne Image template notice mit underscores im Parameter (Norwegian_coat_of_arms) zu benutzen? --Martin H. (talk) 12:18, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Mit urlencode. War ja bei PAGENAME auch schon angewendet. Das funktioniert auch mit jedem anderen Textstring. --Slomox (talk) 18:16, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
Super, danke vielmals. Hatte die urlencode Funktion nicht richtig verstanden, wieder was dazu gelernt. --Martin H. (talk) 19:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

More translations done for Template:Technique/xx

Hi Slomox, I am continuing the work you started on each Template:Technique/xx, back in April 2009, with translating the art-technique phrases ("oil on canvas" etc.) into, at least, 14 languages: en, da, de, el, es, fi, fr, it, nl, no, pl, pt, sv, sw.

The docpage (Template:Technique/doc), now, has more translated phrases, selected for {{int:Lang}}, to describe the template in those 14 languages, depending on each reader (by "?uselang=xx"). I activated the parameter "wood=oak" (etc.) as the 3rd parameter passed inside Template:Technique and added the entry for wood=wood (in each language), setting an unknown panel wood=zzz to show "on zzz". Feel free to update more translations, if you wish. Most of those 14 major translations are nearly finished, so there's no hurry on this. -Wikid77 (talk) 16:42, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

  • Also added Hebrew "he" (which displays right-to-left). -Wikid77 (talk) 15:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

OTRS-Hilfe

Hallo Slomox, könntest du bitte [7] anschauen und File:Fsk_05.jpg als URV löschen? Ich habe OTRS-Zugriff aber bin kein Admin. Kann ich dich in solchen Fällen in Zukunft hier kontaktieren? Danke Nillerdk (talk) 11:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Ich hab's gelöscht. Wenn's nur ab und zu ist, kannst du mich gerne auch in Zukunft bei sowas fragen. --Slomox (talk) 11:32, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

T:Size using T:Formatnum

Thanks for adjusting Template:Formatnum to display all "20.x" and "10.x". I have restored using it inside Template:Size. As you might know, there are still minor errors with rounding the inches (for "cm"), but these errors are ok for now (like showing "4.0200000" with round passed as "2"):

Size1: 10.1 × 20.1 cm (4 × 7.9 in)
Size2: 10.2 × 20.2 cm (4 × 8 in)
Size2: 10.2 × 20.2 × 2 cm (4 × 8 × 0.8 in) - rounded to "2"
Size2: 10.2 × 20.2 × 3 cm (4 × 8 × 1.2 in) - rounded to "3"
Size2: 10.2 × 20.2 × 7 cm (4 × 8 × 2.8 in) - rounded to "7"
Size3: 10.3 × 20.3 cm (4.1 × 8 in)
Size3: 10.3 × 20.3 × 3 cm (4.1 × 8 × 1.2 in) - rounded to "3"
Size4: 10.4 × 20.4 cm (4.1 × 8 in)
Size5: 10.5 × 20.5 cm (4.1 × 8.1 in)
Size6: 10.6 × 20.6 cm (4.2 × 8.1 in)
Size7: 10.7 × 20.7 cm (4.2 × 8.1 in)
Size8: 10.8 × 20.8 cm (4.3 × 8.2 in)
Size9: 10.9 × 20.9 cm (4.3 × 8.2 in)

My main concern was the display of 20.4 (as "20.3"), so you have fixed it for that MediaWiki math problem. Thanks. -Wikid77 (talk) 15:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I further improved the template and solved the problem with unnecessary zeros appended. Additionally the template now adheres to the specified decimal place. --Slomox (talk) 18:06, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Provenance

Hello again, I am following your actions with great interest. However, I do have the inevitable criticism. On File:Willem Pietersz. Buytewech Merry Company.jpg you changed "sale" into "auctioned". This is a bit tricky, because when a painting is mentioned in a auction catalog, it doesn't always mean it's auctioned. After all, for it to be auctioned you first need a buyer. So maybe there's a better way of putting this, such as "sale at" or something similar. Otherwise your changes work fine, as far as I can tell. Regards, Vincent Steenberg (talk) 21:07, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

But for a sale, you need a buyer too, ain't you? Before, it said "sale at [..] auction house". I'm not familiar with art auctions, I thought a sale at an auction house is equal to a sale in an auction. --Slomox (talk) 21:17, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
When a painting is put up for sale it doesn't mean it's sold. When you look at this page prom the Rijksmuseum and you click the Provenance tab you will see that that particular painting was put up for sale in Amsterdam at Mak van Waay on 2 June 1970, but for some reason was "unsold". Vincent Steenberg (talk) 21:42, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
By the way: What's the meaning of the new "by" version on {{Other date}}? I'm not sure for what purpose this shall be used. --Slomox (talk) 21:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
"by" here is meant as "by the time"; I think in German you would say gegen (die Zeit). I added this mainly to be used in Provenance (see for example File:Bartolomé Esteban Perez Murillo 017.jpg), because the previous "Ca. 1900: Mauritshuis" sounded a bit vague. Regards, Vincent Steenberg (talk) 21:42, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
I do not understand by either. May be it is equivalent to before option? --Jarekt (talk) 23:06, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
What I meant to say is "at that time and (probably) earlier". For example: a painting is mentioned in a will dated 1 May 1939. Before that date there's no record of it. Then you could say: "the painting was in his possession "by 1 May 1939". @Slomox: I will add the tag "obtained" to {{ProvenanceEvent}} as a substitute for the rather ambivalent "acquired". I hope that's ok. Regards, Vincent Steenberg (talk) 23:23, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
What's the difference between "obtained", "aquired" and "purchased"? We should only add clearly distinct things (I admit, that with "sold" and "bought" I too added two states which are actually the same, perhaps we should merge them). If the new owner paid money for the object, we should always use the same value. If we don't know, whether the new owner paid money, we should set the type parameter to an empty string. --Slomox (talk) 23:46, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
I think "purchased by NN from NN" is the best option, so you have the same construction on eacht line where new owner precedes old owner. Yesterday I suddenly realised that "to acquire" is (among other things) synonym for "to buy", but "obtain" isn't. So therefore you might want to use "purchased" for acquisitions where money was involved and "obtained" for those where we don't know. I hope I'm making sense. Maybe it's good to ask an English speaking user for confirmation. Wiktionary wasn't very helpful on this. Regards, Vincent Steenberg (talk) 09:39, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
The "from NN" part in "purchased by NN from NN" is not necessary. It's always the person or institution mentioned in the previous line. --Slomox (talk) 10:33, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
I see. Can you give me an example? What then do you mean by "at" in {{ProvenanceEvent}}? - Vincent Steenberg (talk) 14:09, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
"at" is used for auctions for example. The auction house is not the previous owner, but sells the item for the previous owner. --Slomox (talk) 21:04, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
ok, thank you. I have already started to use this template for new files. See for example File:Follower of Jheronimus Bosch 103.jpg, so I'll probably do some modifications and add Dutch translations the coming time. Regards, Vincent Steenberg (talk) 09:13, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

{{ISOdate}} rendert c. nicht richtig

Hallo Slomox, kannst du bitte mal einen Blick auf Commons:Administrators'_noticeboard#Circa werfen? Offenbar zeigt die von dir angelegte Vorlage {{ISOdate}} bei c. nicht circa an, sondern Januar. Meinst du, du kannst das beheben? Danke und beste Grüße, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 12:25, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Beantwortet. --The Evil IP address (talk) 12:43, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Die Antwort fixt zwar das Problem für konkrete Fälle (und alle konkreten Fälle sollten auch möglichst in dieser Form gefixt werden, da die Lösung überlegen ist), aber das generelle Problem besteht weiter. "{{ISOdate|c. 2009}}" sollte "c. 2009" ergeben und nicht "Januar 2009".
Spontan kann ich aber nicht sagen, wo das Problem liegt. Da muss ich mir erst den Code etwas genauer angucken. --Slomox (talk) 15:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Okay, das Problem ist, dass die Parserfunktion time soetwas wie {{#time: c. 2009 }} als gültiges Zeitformat erkennt. Was es meines Erachtens nicht tun sollte (ich weiß jedenfalls keinen vernünftigen Grund dafür). Die Vorlage {{ISOdate}} verlässt sich darauf, dass time scheitert, wenn der übergebene Wert Zeichenketten enthält, die kein korrektes Datum bilden. --Slomox (talk) 16:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Test nach Fix: c. 2009. Funktioniert. --Slomox (talk) 17:18, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

CatDiffuse

Ich find das ja eigentlich ziemlich komisch, aber würde mich doch mal interessieren, ob dir überhaupt mal die englische Beschreibung angeschaut hast. --Cwbm (commons) (talk) 11:23, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Habe ich. Besten Gruß --Slomox (talk) 15:18, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Naja [8] --Cwbm (commons) (talk) 15:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Ich mal mal einen Vorschlag: Wie wär's, wenn du mal konkret argumentierst, was dich stört. Es ist nämlich echt nervig, wenn man auf bare Anschneidungen reagieren und erst selbst herausinterpretieren soll, was eigentlich der Punkt ist. --Slomox (talk) 08:50, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Der wesentliche Punkt der sich geändert hat ist, dass diese Vorlage nicht permanent in der Kategorie bleiben soll, sondern nur so lange bis die Kategorie aufgeräumt ist. Da ich kein Platt spreche, habe ich mir gedacht, ich setze einen Hinweis in Englisch an diese Stelle doch bitte den Text zu aktualisieren. Dass haben andere bei fünf anderen Sprachen auch verstanden und gemacht. --Cwbm (commons) (talk) 09:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Wenn du Updates möchtest, dann wäre der korrekte Weg der über die Diskussionsseite. Das Verstümmeln von vorhandenen Vorlagen kann leicht in die Hose gehen, wenn aus welchen Gründen auch immer kein aktiver Übersetzer dies bemerkt. Eine vorhandene Übersetzung sollte also bloß dann entfernt werden, wenn die Aussage der Vorlage sich grundsätzlich verkehrt.
Der Unterschied, auf den du dich beziehst, ist ziemlich klein. Und wenn man die realen Verhältnisse betrachtet, dann wird der Unterschied hauptsächlich theoretisch. In der Praxis verweilt die Vorlage meist längere Zeit in der Kategorie und diese wird immer nur teilentleert. --Slomox (talk) 10:30, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Der Unterschied war hinreichend gravierend um die Übersetzung zu entfernen. Vielen, so auch mir, war nicht klar worin der Unterschied zwischen CatDiffuse und Categorise bestand. Das ist jetzt anders. Würdest du den jetzt bitte die Vorlage anpassen? --Cwbm (commons) (talk) 10:42, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Fix dates

Hi Slomox, could you see if your bot can fix the date on images like File:US Navy 020403-N-3653A-003 USS Washington - RFTS cleaning.jpg? I'm uploading these images as part of Commons:Batch uploading/Navy News Service. Multichill (talk) 20:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

unnötige Infoboxen und Templates

Hallo, du hast mal das unnötige Template Template:Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk image gelöscht. Was hälst du eigentlich von der seltsamen Infobox Category:Images with infobox aircraft? Kannst du auch hier deine Meinung sagen? Commons_talk:Templates#Does_these_templates_have_a_purpose.3F --Avron (talk) 20:26, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Help from admin

Hello Slomox!

I am not quite active on Commons and need opinion of a experienced admin of Commons: I have a question concerning a deletion discussion: Commons:Deletion requests/All files link to Template:Archive-Mujahideen and the template itself.. Can you help here? Greetings, Tomasz 15:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

What's your question? --Slomox (talk) 18:35, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Occupation/nds template

Hallo Slomox,

alle Achtung, wie schnell Du die Platt-Fassung um die neuen Einträge erweitert hast! Eine Kleinigkeit zu den älteren Übersetzungen: wenn ich nicht irre, ist ein physician kein „Physiker“, sondern ein Arzt bzw. eine Ärztin … könntest Du das noch korrigieren? (Ich kann’s nicht machen, weil ich kein Platt kann.)

Beste Grüße, --Aristeas (talk) 15:04, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Stimmt ;-) Wenn man lange Wortlisten übersetzt, wird man mit der Zeit nachlässig... Die Naturwissenschaftler haben alle noch gefehlt, ich hab die jetzt auch mal ergänzt. --Slomox (talk) 16:56, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Gute Idee! Ich habe Deine neuen Einträge in Template:Occupation/de und Template:Occupation/doc übernommen. --Aristeas (talk) 17:32, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Tip: Categorizing images

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Hello, Slomox/Archiv!

Tip: Add categories to your images

Thanks a lot for contributing to the Wikimedia Commons! Here's a tip to make your uploads more useful: Why not add some categories to describe them? This will help more people to find and use them.

Here's how:

1) If you're using the UploadWizard, you can add categories to each file when you describe it. Just click "more options" for the file and add the categories which make sense:

Uploadwizard-categories.png

2) You can also pick the file from your list of uploads, edit the file description page, and manually add the category code at the end of the page.

[[Category:Category name]]

For example, if you are uploading a diagram showing the orbits of comets, you add the following code:

[[Category:Astronomical diagrams]]
[[Category:Comets]]

This will make the diagram show up in the categories "Astronomical diagrams" and "Comets".

When picking categories, try to choose a specific category ("Astronomical diagrams") over a generic one ("Illustrations"). Pro-tip: The CommonSense tool can help you find the best category for your image.

Thanks again for your uploads! More information about categorization can be found in Commons:Categories, and don't hesitate to leave a note on the help desk.

CategorizationBot (talk) 10:48, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Template:CountryAdjective

Slomox, I noticed that some users are confused about input parameters to Template:CountryAdjective so I added documentation of the template as far as I can deduce it. Could you check it and add to it. I am not sure which two letter country code standard it is following and I do not know what the second parameter do (Male/Female/Neutral form ?). --Jarekt (talk) 15:19, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I have added the info. But ideally the templates {{CountryAdjective}} and {{Occupation}} shouldn't be used in their free forms. To achieve a string like "French painter" there should be an additional template that binds them together. Cause some languages may want to write something like "Peintre français" with inverted word order. That's only possible with an additional template for the full form. Similar to {{BioGalleryInfo}} which provides a whole short sentence (with some more additional info). --Slomox (talk) 19:32, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I did not realized they were not meant to be used directly. I notice people using them with creator pages and liked how they work. I will think about your recommendation. --Jarekt (talk) 19:47, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I can create a template like that, if there is a need (and it seems it is). Any idea for a good short name? --Slomox (talk) 19:56, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
I really think there is a need for such a template; it would be great if you could create one! I have added the {{CountryAdjective}} and {{Occupation}} templates to some Creator templates but the result is not really satisfying because not even an Italian or Spanish translation is possible: the word order would be just wrong. Also, if we add more than one occupation, the last one should be appended with “and” in most languages; this word needs translation too. Maybe a combinated template like {{NationAndOccupation|DE|m|painter|engraver|mathematician}} which would give German painter, engraver, and mathematician in Englisch, deutscher Maler, Graveur und Mathematiker in German, but pintor, grafista y matemático alemán (or similar) in Spanish would be the best solution. The template should handle at least one to three occupation entries. I know this is not so easy … I don’t know if I can help because I have rather little experience with complex template creation. — I have no good proposal for the template’s name: for the moment, I would suggest just to create and test the template with a name like NationAndOccupation and rename it later before we add it to the singular pages and Creator templates. Best, --Aristeas (talk) 15:19, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Done. {{NationAndOccupation}}:
en version: French painter, gladiator, physician and physicist
de version: französische Malerin, Gladiator, Ärztin und Physikerin
nds version: franzöösche Malersche, gladiator , Doktersche un Physikerin
--Slomox (talk) 17:31, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Wow! Thank you! I have to leave the computer for now but I will try it and add German, Spanish and Italian versions tomorrow. Best, --Aristeas (talk) 17:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

(Fortführung auf Deutsch und ohne Einrückung, da es eigentlich ein neues Thema ist) Hallo Slomox, nochmals vielen Dank für die Erstellung des Templates und der Dokumentation! Ich habe es ausgiebig getestet (nicht aus Misstrauen gegenüber Deinen Programmierkünsten, sondern einfach aus Sorgfaltspflicht) und es funktioniert perfekt. Ich habe spanische, französische und italienische Versionen angelegt; frz. und it. sind zwar noch nicht wirklich funktional, da die frz. und it. Fassungen von {{CountryAdjective}} und {{Occupation}} noch fehlen (die spanische ist auch noch nicht komplett), aber man sieht dadurch immerhin, dass die Umstellung des Adjektives ans Ende jetzt klappt. Ich denke, dass damit auch ein höherer Anreiz besteht, {{CountryAdjective}} und {{occupation}} ins Frz. und It. zu übertragen.

Damit bleibt eigentlich (soweit ich sehe) nur noch die Frage des Namens für das neue Template. Wenn wir den endgültigen Namen haben, kann man auch in die Dokumentation von {{Creator}} und {{CountryAdjective}}/{{occupation}} entsprechende Verweise einbauen, damit das neue Template auch benutzt wird. Nur, wie soll es heißen? Mein Vorschlag NationAndOccupation gefiel mir wegen des Reims, aber jetzt stelle ich fest (sorry, bin halt auch kein native speaker), dass es eigentlich nationality heißen müsste (nation ist ja eher die ganze Nation) — sorry! Wie wäre dann NationalityAndOccupation? Korrekt, aber leider recht lang. OriginAndOccupation wäre kürzer, aber vielleicht irritierend bei Personen, deren Staatsangehörigkeit von ihrer Herkunft abweicht. Was meinst Du? Wie ist eigentlich das offizielle Vorgehen auf Commons: muss oder sollte man jemanden befragen? Du weißt da sicher besser Bescheid.

Beste Grüße und sag mir Bescheid, falls ich noch etwas helfen kann (die Dokumentation auch ins Deutsche übersetzen?)! Die span., it. und frz. Versionen von {{CountryAdjective}}/{{occupation}} werde ich demnächst mal anlegen (jeweils zumindest die wichtigsten Begriffe), falls sich kein native speaker darum kümmert. Dann wird auch unser kombiniertes Template in diesen Sprachen so richtig funktionieren. --Aristeas (talk) 12:39, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

NationAndOccupation heißt ja nichts anderes als NationUndBeruf. Ist ja nicht falsch. Also meinetwegen kann das ruhig so bleiben. Wenn man's kürzer haben will, vielleicht aus Country und Occupation {{COcc}}? ;-) Keine Ahnung.
Fragen muss man keinen. Da gibt es keine Richtlinien. Ich bin da immer etwas zwiespältig bezüglich Diskussionen. Einerseits kann eine breite Diskussion einen davor bewahren, dumme Fehler zu machen, die man nachher schwer wieder korrigieren kann. Andererseits ist aber eine breite Diskussion auch der sicherste Weg eine sinnvolle Idee kaputtzureden. Bisher bin ich eigentlich immer gut damit gefahren, wenn ich einfach gemacht habe, ohne zu fragen. Das schlimmste was passieren kann, ist ja, dass die Vorlage irgendwann mal verschoben wird. Zur Not kann man das per Bot in ein paar Minuten korrigieren. Das schlimmste was passieren kann, wenn du auf dem Village Pump nach einem besseren Namen fragst: die Leute stellen in Frage, ob es überhaupt sinnvoll sei, bei Menschen das Land ihrer Herkunft stets so prominent anzugeben und am Ende werden die Vorlagen gelöscht, weil man keine Einigkeit erzielen kann.
Die Dokumentation kannst du gerne in alle Sprachen übersetzen. Ich fände das sehr begrüßenswert. Ich persönlich begnüge mich immer mit Englisch, weil mir noch wichtiger ist, dass die Leser lokalisierte Inhalte sehen und da gibt es noch mehr als genug zu tun. Lokalisierte Inhalte für die Autoren sind für mich noch keine Priorität. Aber sinnvoll ist es auf jeden Fall!
Wenn du Muttersprachler für die anderen Übersetzungen suchst, dann ist das beste, wenn du Leute direkt ansprichst, die in anderen Fällen schon öfter Vorlagen lokalisiert haben. --Slomox (talk) 13:02, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Danke für Deine Hilfe und Erklärungen! Wegen der Lokalisation habe ich gemäß deinem Rat angefangen, Template-erfahrene Muttersprachler zu fragen; eine polnische Version {{NationAndOccupation/pl}} haben wir jetzt schon. Noch zwei Fragen:
  • In vielen Creator-Templates steht noch folgende Zeile: | Description = <!--{{CountryAdjective|XX}} {{occupation|XX}} -->. Weißt Du einen schnellen Weg (bzw. hast als Admin eine Möglichkeit), wie man diese Zeilen alle durch die jetzt passendere Formulierung: | Description = <!--{{NationAndOccupation|x|XX|XX}} --> ersetzen könnte?
  • Ich habe die Dokumentation verdeutscht: Template:NationAndOccupation/doc/de, da dies bei Templates zwar nicht dringen nötig ist, aber vielleicht doch die Chance erhöht, dass unser Template fleißig benutzt wird. Wie sorgt man aber dafür, dass die übersetzte Dokumentation auch richtig angezeigt wird, wenn man als Benutzersprache dt. einstellt? Ich habe weder bei {{TemplateBox}} noch bei {{documentation}} etc. einen hilfreichen Hinweis gefunden, auch mangelt es an Beispielen für übersetzte Template-Dokumentationen. Oder wer könnte mir da weiterhelfen?
Beste Grüße, --Aristeas (talk) 17:09, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Du kannst die deutschen Übersetzungen direkt in Template:NationAndOccupation/doc einfügen. Per {{LangSwitch}}. Ich hab das mal gemacht: [9]. --Slomox (talk) 17:40, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Vielen Dank! Ich wusste nicht, wie man vorgehen muss, werde es mir für weitere Template-Doc-Übersetzungen merken. Danke auch, dass Du es gleich erledigt hast! --Aristeas (talk) 21:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Zu | Description = <!--{{CountryAdjective|XX}} {{occupation|XX}} --> kann ich grade nichts sagen. Wie ist die Zeile denn da reingekommen? Wurde das bei einem Botlauf eingefügt? --Slomox (talk) 17:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Du hast recht: wie die Versionsgeschichte der Templates zeigt, wurde diese Zeile erst im November 2009 von JarektBot eingefügt (sorry, dass ich nicht gleich daran gedacht habe!). Also sollte man wohl mal Jarekt darauf ansprechen und ihn fragen, ob er seinen Bot nicht dazu anstellen könnte, diese Zeile wieder zu ändern … Ich mache das (spätestens morgen). Beste Grüße, --Aristeas (talk) 21:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Jarekt hat sich sehr freundlich darum gekümmert und alle derartigen Zeilen durch die neue Fassung (mit {{NationAndOccupation}}) ersetzt. --Aristeas (talk) 20:14, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Template {{RelativeLocation}}

Hallo Slomox, nachdem ich festgestellt habe, dass eine ganze Reihe von {{Creator}}-Templates und {{Painting}}-Tabellen relative Ortsangaben wie „Vinci bei Florenz“ oder „Beilstein im Landkreis Heilbronn“ enthalten, habe ich ein (simples) Template erstellt, das sich um eine automatisher Übersetzung dieser Ausdrücke kümmern soll: {{RelativeLocation}}. Wenn man es überall einbaut (ich habe schon angefangen), sind die Creator-Templates endlich komplett mehrsprachig. Könntest Du bei Gelegenheit einen Blick darauf werfen und, wenn Du es (hoffentlich) nicht für kompletten Blödsinn hältst, die niederdeutsche Fassung erstellen? Mir ist, wie ich in der Dokumentation auch schreibe, bewusst, dass sich vielleicht nicht alle Ausdrücke automatisch perfekt in alle Sprachen übersetzen lassen (vielleicht verlangt ja eine Sprache den Ortsnamen im Genitiv etc. oder einen vom ersten Buchstaben des Ortsnamens abhängigen Artikel). Trotzdem glaube ich, dass auch eine nicht ganz perfekte automatische Übersetzung noch viel besser ist als gar keine — all diese Einträge einzeln in x Sprachen übersetzen wäre ja schrecklich! (Einzelne Ausnahmen kann man ja immer noch mit {{LangSwitch}} in die Creator-Templates einbauen.) Beste Grüße und v.a. schöne Weihnachten, --Aristeas (talk) 20:11, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Für Blödsinn halte ich es nicht, aber ich halte es andererseits nur bedingt für eine gute Lösung. Die Vorlage übersetzt übersetzbare Wörter in den Creator-Vorlagen. Insofern ist es natürlich vernünftig. Aber persönlich stelle ich mir die Frage, ob diese Wendungen überhaut in den Creator-Vorlagen vorkommen sollten. Warum schreiben wir nicht statt "Vinci bei Florenz" kurz und knapp "Vinci"? Wer wissen will, wo's liegt, kann ja auf den Link klicken und erfährt dort mehr. Sinnvollerweise sollte ja sowieso jeder Ort eine Galerie haben, das sollte also kein Problem sein. --Slomox (talk) 21:40, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Es sollte in jedem Fall immer, bevor die Vorlage eingefügt wird, als erster Schritt die Frage gestellt werden: Brauchen wir die Zusatzangabe überhaupt? Und nur wenn die Antwort ein klares Ja ist, sollte die Vorlage eingesetzt werden. --Slomox (talk) 21:42, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
OK, da hast Du Recht: bei Orten mit eigener Galerie oder Kategorie kann man auf solche Angaben eigentlich verzichten. Ich werde die von mir probehalber bereits gemachten Einträge demnächst daraufhin überprüfen und in diesem Fall die Vorlage wieder entfernen. Allerdings bleiben dann immer noch jene Fälle, in denen wir (noch) gar keinen Eintrag für den Ort haben, z.B. bei Creator:Albert_Gustav_Aristides_Edelfelt, oder in denen die Creator-Templates Angabe wie “Umgebung von München” machen (z.B. Creator:Peter_Casagrande). Auch bei den Ortsangaben von {{Painting}}-Tabellen werden manchmal kaum lokalisiertbare Orte genannt. In diesen Fällen dürfte die Vorlage doch zumindest vorläufig ganz nützlich sein, oder?
Ich werde die Dokumentation der Vorlage entsprechend anpassen, also einen Hinweis anbringen, dass sie nur in solchen Fällen benutzt, ansonsten die Galerie-Seite oder Kategorie des Ortes verlinkt werden sollte. Nochmals schöne Weihnachten, --Aristeas (talk) 10:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Ja, wenn wir die Vorlage als eine Arbeitskategorie für solche Ortsangaben ansehen, die noch nicht punktgenau lokalisiert sind, dann macht es durchaus Sinn. Bei Edelfelt könnten wir zumindest zu Kiiala eine Alibi-Galerie anlegen, da scheint es zumindest ein Bild zu geben. Für Haikkoo haben wir nichts und eine leere Galerie würden die Commonsianer auf keinen Fall akzeptieren. Ein roter Link wäre möglich, aber nur bedingt hilfreich. Edelfelt ist ja auch auch ein gutes Beispiel, für Orte, die schwer zu lokalisieren sind ;-) Ich hab ein Weile gebraucht, um rauszukriegen, dass Burgå die eingedeutschte Variante zu Borgå ist, was wiederum der schwedische Name für Porvoo ist. Haiko und Kiala wiederum sind die schwedischen Namen für die Orte, die auf Finnisch Haikkoo und Kiiala heißen. Um das auf Commons korrekt darzustellen, müssten eigentlich noch extra City-Vorlagen her. Aber ich glaube da übrschreiten wir die Grenzen des auf Commons möglichen. Wir können nicht für jedes Dorf eigene Übersetzungslisten pflegen. Da müsste eine eigene Lösung her, die auf die Namen zurückgreift, die in Form von Wikipedia-Interwikis ja häufig bereits vorliegen.
"Umgebung von München" ist in Creator-Vorlagen okay, solange wir die konkreten Orte nicht kennen. Es sollte in der Regel aber versucht werden, die konkreten Orte herauszufinden und diese dann einzutragen. "Umgebung von München" könnte aber beispielsweise auch bei Bildern benutzt werden, bei denen man den genauen Aufnahmeort nicht kennt. Je nach Motiv ist es möglich, dass der exakte Ort unmöglich näher lokalisierbar ist. Da wäre {{RelativeLocation}} dann auch als Dauerlösung okay. --Slomox (talk) 13:28, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Hallo Slomox, danke für Deine Recherche in Sachen Burgå etc. und Deine Überlegungen! Ich kann Dir nur zustimmen und werde also in die Dokumentation zu {{RelativeLocation}} — sowie ggf. zu {{Creator}} und {{Painting}} — eine entsprechende klare Anleitung einbauen. Ich komme allerdings gerade nicht dazu, da ich während der Feiertage kaum an einen Computer komme; spätestens nach den Feiertagen werde ich es aber erledigen. Beste Grüße, --Aristeas (talk) 17:47, 29 December 2009 (UTC)