User talk:Sodacan

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to: navigation, search
Nuvola apps kate.png
Please direct all new requests here:
Graphic Requests
(So I can monitor them more easily)

Barnstars[edit]

GDBarnstar1.png The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
Great work! Svgalbertian (talk) 14:04, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Graphic Designer Barnstar Hires.png The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
I've just seen File:Royal Coat of Arms of England (1399-1603).svg for the first time. Beautiful work, dude! OwenBlacker | Discussion 10:30, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Graphic Designer Barnstar Hires.png The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
Excellent work. Benstitch (talk) 14:52, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Graphic Designer Barnstar Hires.png The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
Very good job ! Thank you for all these images !!! Edoardo Cavaleri (talk) 13:23, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Graphic Designer Barnstar Hires.png The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
You are the best designer I have ever seen! Really a great great work! Just keep doing it! Edoardo Cavaleri (talk) 22:33, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Please talk[edit]

Crown of Rus-Ukraina[edit]

Can you draw crown Ukraine [[1]] as heraldic crowns of Ukraine? Let me know. Mitr4 (talk) 13:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Belgium and the Netherlands[edit]

No words can describe your work on these. I can only ask some practical questions. Do you have any plans on doing the arms of Belgian queens? I've gotten a request for the coat of arms for Queen Astrid, and wouldn't want it to overlap with anything you might upload. I assume you don't mean to recreate this depiction (File:Wapen van Prins Filip en Prinses Mathilde.svg), so I'm going to update it to your new style as well. Otherwise, just upload over it. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 09:21, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I have no plans for the queens at the moment, mostly due to lack of information on them, so its probably better for you to do what you need and I will add a little later. If you need any help on any of the elements just tell me so I can take a look. Sodacan (talk) 11:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

File:Arms of Sovereign Prince William I of Orange.svg[edit]

The Lion of Nassau shouldn't have the attributes of the "Generaliteitsleeuw" (Crown, arrows and sword) yet, as they were only added in 1815, if I recall correctly. That's when the Generaliteitsleeuw fell into disuse. Compare with File:William I, sovereign prince of the Netherlands - coat of arms.JPG and this contemporary image (which is probably fit for Commons as well). :-) Lemmens, Tom (talk) 09:59, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


Lion of Brabant/Belgium[edit]

I'd like to preface this with saying that I love your work. Nobody on wiki does it better.

For the Lion of Brabant/Belgium can you do something a little less eastern/Asian looking? It would go better with all the articles of medieval and modern history that it would be represented in if it looked more like the historical lion?

Much thanks for all you've done.

JMvanDijk (talk)

I'm not Sodacan, but I think I can address this. The design is a typical Belgian depiction, so rather than changing it, an alternative file could perhaps be used for pre-Belgian Brabant? I can for example recolor this grotesque lion, which I personally use for medieval and modern heraldry. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 17:19, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
No. I won't. The lion is based on historical sources, it is a great work by an 'eastern/Asian looking' person and it will stay. Please do not reappropriate and recycle my work into something else it is not. The lion is for Belgium, not Brabant. There is a difference in depiction at this point and I have not at any time uploaded an arms for Brabant itself. Sodacan (talk) 23:27, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Realizing that any depiction that meets the blasonment is a valid one, but I'm also looking at the Belgian gov't website, which has this:

http://www.belgium.be/en/about_belgium/country/belgium_in_nutshell/symbols/coats_of_arms/ Thanks again. JMvanDijk (talk)

Why don't you draw it then? If you don't like my work leave my talk page and contribute something else. If I have made a mistake I will gladly correct it. But if this is about preferences then I would have to change all my images constantly to meet the needs of demanding users day in and day out. I am not going to do that. Draw it yourself sir, and contribute. Sodacan (talk) 00:41, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Well, it is not a question of like or not like. Frankly, you've replaced a good deal,of the art work I did for the House of Orange, and yours is better. I have no issues there. It is a question of historical accuracy. For the medieval and early modern dukes of Brabant, a more (as Lemmens mentions) "grotesque" lion is indicated (see, for instance, the article on the French Wikipedia on the Armorial Geldre). I will at least revert to that image already used (I think actually based on your work anyway) at least for the articles I have largely authored. For the modern Belgian Lion, if that is what is used in Belgium, who am I to say that is wrong. I hope this clears everything up. Again, thank you for all the fantastic work you do!

JMvanDijk (talk)

For modern Belgium, the new lion is perfect. Much better then the previous lions. It's just in articles like this (en:Duchy of Brabant) that the new style doesn't really fit. Here (nl:Hertog van Brabant (België)), the article about the title of Belgian crown prince, it would be perfect.
The Netherlands lion would be a better fit than the rather specific Belgian Lion. By the way, this new series of low country arms are yet another example of your fantastic work and style. Wikipedia is much improved by them. Sir Iain (talk) 12:27, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
I understand this, I am not saying I am not doing Brabant. The lion is for Belgium, I have no idea why anyone would think that it was suppose to represent Brabant as well. The reason why I have drawn like 100 different lions rampant is because I don't particularly like reappropriating elements from one coat of arms to another. Especially on national symbols such as these. if Brabant deserves its own lion, in its own preferred style- then I will draw it.
My lion was based on several historical images, as listed in the source section of each image. Its funny to me when 'historical accuracy' is used against me, when I am actually one of the very few contributing users left who stills uploads original source-based artwork on here. I miss Katepanomegas, he never complains to me, he understands what I have to go through. Sodacan (talk) 12:59, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
It's mainly that people can recognize quality, but not being able to produce it themselves. Your work is superb, and easy to reuse, resulting in good derivatives. I'd rather upload a good unoriginal file, than a new one which is lot worse than yours. By the way, I wasn't complaining, just trying to clarify some of the misunderstandings. Sir Iain (talk) 13:09, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
By the way, for Brabant, Holland, Flanders and other medieval/early modern counties and duchy a cross between your English lion rampant and your new Dutch lion would be best. But it's not a high priority or something that you should be pressed into doing. Thanks for all your hard work. Sir Iain (talk) 13:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I know you weren't complaining, the ranting part was suppose to be in general (or for the user above you- or whoever). I will find a source and create a new Lion for the purpose. Sodacan (talk) 13:23, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Problem is that Brabant, having both existed for so long and being at the centre of a lot of cultural exchange, hasn't got a specific style. Nothing is truly representative. So you're basicly always going to exclude certain periods. :-p For example, looking at some etchings, if the Belgian lion loses his tummy, he'd fit well with the 17th century naturalistic depictions. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 15:17, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Okay we are in murky territory now, this talkpage should never ever be used to talk about 'style'. End of topic. Sodacan (talk) 15:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
My apologies. For what's it worth, I continued with your wording from 12:59, depiction could've fit better. I never had the intention to open that can of worms. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 16:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)


exterior ornaments. of children of Beatrix[edit]

I can send you this site for you so you can see that the coat of arms children of Queen beatrix have different exterior ornaments.

good day to you, cordially--Dunkerqueenflandre (talk) 11:13, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

http://www.google.fr/imgres?um=1&rlz=1C1CHNY_frFR367FR367&es_sm=93&hl=fr&biw=1024&bih=649&tbm=isch&tbnid=LVQz_xHwYkZsHM:&imgrefurl=http://www.hethuisvanoranje.nl/07%2520Vorstinnen%2520van%2520Oranje-Nassau/18%2520Koningin%2520Beatrix/Overlijden%2520Prins%2520Friso%2520van%2520Oranje-Nassau.html&docid=tInD2F1xTDpnGM&imgurl=http://www.hethuisvanoranje.nl/12%252520Heraldische%252520Wapens/Foto%2527s/Wapen%252520Prins%252520van%252520Oranje.jpg&w=250&h=305&ei=D6xKUvG6AeOq0QXanYHQBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=230&vpy=195&dur=1190&hovh=244&hovw=200&tx=109&ty=121&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=117&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:86

File:Royal Standard of the Netherlands (1908).svg[edit]

Don't suppose you could add the Military William Order to the standard I've created, could you? As my graphic skills aren't good enough to make it myself, many thanks. TRAJAN 117 (talk) 08:11, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Great work! Many thanks. TRAJAN 117 (talk) 21:46, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Arms of Luxembourg[edit]

Don't suppose you plan on redrawing the arms of Luxembourg, do you? As it would be great to see them redone in the same great style as the other arms of the Low Countries.

These one's [2][3][4]

Many thanks. TRAJAN 117 (talk) 02:23, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

There's already a whole set done by Katepanomegas back in 2011. I suppose they could be redrawn closer to the official designs, though. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 13:21, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Graphic Designer Barnstar Hires.png The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
For your stunning and heraldic badges, especially for those of mediaeval England. Aldaron (talk) 11:53, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Vector images[edit]

Hi Sodacan, I've been trying to create vector images with the Inkscape to clear the huge backlog on English Wikipedia, and recently uploaded some maps on user request. It's easy to vectorize simple logos, but complex emblems seem out of my reach. How do you trace them? Do you know any good tutorial videos or have any tips?—Bill william comptonTalk 16:04, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid that I have very little to impart to you in terms of tips and tutorials. This is because I have learnt almost everything through trial and error myself. I have never been taught or instructed in graphics design or art in any way at all. For comparison this is the first image I have ever uploaded: File:Royal Thai Navy Seals Emblem.svg, and this is a recent one I made earlier this year File:Coat of Arms of Margaret Thatcher, The Baroness Thatcher (1995–2013).svg. The best thing to do is to find a vector image that you like and would like to replicate. Download it, then take it apart to see how it is constructed, you can learn a lot that way. Sodacan (talk) 19:02, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for replying. I will follow your advice. Just a little query, do you use trace bitmap or manually trace an image with Bézier curve?—Bill william comptonTalk 21:35, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I draw everything manually. I make the strokes around the images first, I then fill in the colours afterwards. Sodacan (talk) 04:40, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Wow[edit]

Hi. I've been admiring what I've just found out to be your work for months now, and I must say that it is truly astonishing. I never realized that one person could create so many truly beautiful coats of arms an elements. May I ask, how do you make them (using what)? Thanks,
Nathan

Old Coat of Arms Of House Petrović-Njegoš and Montenegro[edit]

Hello, this is historical Coat of arms of Montenegro Old Coat of Arms of Montenegro (eagle is silver it is just a golden material) i just wanna show it to you and if you ever decide to do a coat of arm on request i hope it will be this one. Thank you anyway, your work is truly amazing! CarJunakaCg (talk) 03:34, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Dutch Lions[edit]

Royal coat of arms of the Netherlands (1815-1907).svg

Dear Sodacan,

It seems as though you've made a minor mistake regarding 19th century the arms of the Kingdom of the Netherlands: the supporters are lacking a fluffy tuft of hair on the middle of their tails. Here are a few pictures on the web for comparison: [5] and [6] Kind regards, Sir Iain (talk) 20:17, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Coat of Armas of Knud "the Great"[edit]

Hi Sodacan, (I'm sorry for my english), can you edit this image (Rey Canuto -el Grande-.png), when you have time, to be equal to this that you created: Royal Arms of England (1154-1189).svg

Thanks in advance. - Lector d Wiki (talk) 21:27, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to intrude, but I just noticed this post. This is a fantasy insignia, the first Danish monarch that is known to have used a coat of arms is Canute VI (dating from c. 1194), and in all likelihood his father Valdemar I the Great used the same "Three Lions" arms as well (but this hypothesis has never been proven). No coats of arms are known for any previous Danish monarch. The lindorm (wyvern) [symbolising the Wends] relates to a title adopted by Canute VI, but the insignia dates from c. 1440. At the time of Canute (Knud) the Great, Denmark didn't control the region it represents, it was ruled by the Obotrites. Their fortress Arkona was conquered by Denmark in 1136 and 1168, and effective Danish control of the region is most prominent in the 13th century. The Norwegian Lion dates from the 13th century, so both insignia in this combined arms were adopted more than 200 years after the reign of Canute the Great. Btw: very nice work with the Dutch insignia and those of the English queen consorts, they are very beautifully rendered. --Valentinian T / C 13:17, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Valentinian. I Know that is a fantasy insignia, who say in the picture's description, the insignia is attributed later by someone else. I think that it's interesting to have it for the article of the North Sea Empire (explaining that is attributed later), for this reason I asked Sodacan if he had time he change as the insignia of the solitary lion. - Lector d Wiki (talk) 09:30, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Copyright over an existing symbol?[edit]

Hi, I've seen that you reverted my edit on the coat of arms of the Kingdom of France and I want to know how you can justify an entire reversion like this. Could you tell me what of the information I added is wrong?: 1) The coat was primarily created before 1305; 2) it is PD in France so {{PD-old}} -as I tagged it- perfectly applies (therefore you can't be the "copyright holder" of a coat of arms created in the XIV Century). 3) The derivative work indicated File:Blason comte Anjou.svg no longer exists on Commons.

I don't understand why you reverted ALL the changes made, but you are certainly wrong. Probably you think that if you vectorize an existing coat or image, you automatically become the copyright owner of that emblem. In cases like this or the famous Coat of arms of the UK, you vectorized an existing emblem, but their were not "original" creations by you. If the CoA of the UK was not a PD image ({{PD-UKGov}} as a Crown work), your rendition wouldn't be able to be hosted here. And some time ago you arbitrarily deleted the PD-UKGov tag on this image (still don't know why).

So please, leave your ego behind and don't revert good faith edits in the future. If you insist on this, I'll have to report your reversions. Thanks, - Fma12 (talk) 17:21, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Please do, please report my edits now. So we can have this debate in the open as oppose to you arbitarily and randomly changing vital information on these files once every other month. All the symbols and coat of arms that I made a rendition of is for the benefit of the whole Wikipedia community, usually they are images that have not existed before or have not been deposit here on commons in svg format. This is not about ego, this is about me doing my bit for the community and utilising my skills on a beneficial way.
As for the issue of copyright, you are wrong. All images are adaptations and derivative works of art based upon copyright or non-copyrightable work. Any PD images is non-copyrightable but my rendition of it could be. The UK government owns the copyright to the UK coat of arms that 'they' themselves drew but not on any other work that is drawn by a private individual. Please point out where in my work is drawn by the British government? The coat of arms of France is a PD image and is non-copyrightable, however my rendition of it is not copyrighted in any restrictive sense, the copyright belongs to the Wikimedia foundation under a free license, as a result no one owns the copyright. Anyone is free to adapt, use and abuse it as much as they want. The only ego issue here is at least my name, the name of the artist who created the image, is allowed to be attached to the file description. If you think this is a violation of the UK government's rights then you are wrong. I know your edits are done in good faith but so is my uploads of hundreds of images for free use. But in this case you are incorrect to edit file information, which bear no infringement on anybody's rights but the artist's. Sodacan (talk) 17:41, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
I have some disagreements with you. First of all, I didn't edit "arbitrarily" (as you said) when I included the {{PD-UKGov}} license in the UK coat of arms. As far as I know, the coat was originally created by the British Government, not by you. What you did is to make a (great) SVG rendition of the coat although this is not enough to attribute it as your own "creation" (in the concern that "creation" refers to the original concept of an image). About your statement "The UK government owns the copyright to the UK coat of arms that 'they' themselves drew but not on any other work that is drawn by a private individual" you are wrong: this is PD because of its age and therefore you can upload a rendition at Commons. On the other hand, what is the difference between your version of the UK CoA and the Royal coat of arms showed at the UK website? May be the shading effects and the vector image format, of course, but the concept and drawing was an original idea by the UK Gov. That's what I'm referring to.
I have rendered many logos and emblems during all these years, such as Boca Jrs badge or some corporate logo, even traffic signs but I did not attribute the copyright on them because those have been created before, being assured that those images were free of copyright before uploading them. What I ask you is not to revert "anything" but take a look at the edit first, because some of the information of your image may be incorrect. I always edit in good faith. - Fma12 (talk) 19:01, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Coats of Arms are not comparable to the images you link. While those logos need to be perfect clones of the original, this is not the case with coats of arms. Per Commons:Coats of arms, it is the blazon (composition) and PD-old renditions that are in the public domain, Sodacan's files are his own artistic creations and thus copyrightable renditions. Commons:Coats of arms also points out the difference between a coat of arms and a logo. Commons:Coats of arms belongs to the guidelines and policies of Wikimedia Commons, and was written by administrator Micheletb. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 19:37, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
I use the word arbitarily because you pick and choose files at random and then delete vital information from them without discussion or notification. I have never and still don't claim that I have originally created any images. All of my uploads are derivative works of original art, which I recognised and the information is in the description itself. I am merely the artist who created 'these' particular files. Again the the UK government in no way have helped me draw anything, all of it is my own rendition based on a PD image. If you cannot see the difference between my work and the example you link, and still thinks just because they are somewhat similar to your eyes- then the issue here is really about your perception of differences and threshold of derivatives. Please understand what these are and their effects on copyright before you make edits on other people's uploads. The examples you give are clearly different, logos and traffic signs demands absolute copies and obedience to the original which coats of arms do not. Furthermore a logo from 2012 will inevitably have different source information to that of a coat of arms that was based on art from the 19th century. I don't claim and in fact do not have copyright over these images, I merely put my name in as the artist who made 'this' redition. Whatever is left of the free license (usage and free status) is own by Commons itself. Please, please, please make good on your threat to me and report me, I am so tired of having to revert edits from users like yourself, I get them once every other year. Let's sort this put the issue in front of the community, I am confident in my position and will continue to revert your edits, not because I don't assume good faith on your part, but because I know you are just wrong. Sodacan (talk) 01:33, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Well, the answer on the question "Does a rendition of a CoA has an own copyright?" differs from country to country. Here in Germany, own renditions of CoAs usually do not have one, but if this applies alos to your highly sophisticated ones is hard to say. For other countries, especially anglo-saxon ones, the answer is different, as the treshold of originality is lower than in Germany. That is an unvolved problem here on Commons.--Antemister (talk) 10:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

File:Arms of Baffa-Trasci.svg[edit]

Hello - I am asking you today, because the originator of this image claims the proper use of elements created by you. May I ask for your help and judgement on this image. It is supposedly a coat of arms from 1573. I doubt that the type of shield (looks like French Empire), the plough (is to sophisticated) and the crown are contemporary. To me it is a compiled unworthy piece of heraldry. Do you agree? --Maxxl2 - talk 19:02, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

File:Royal Standard of the King of France.svg[edit]

Could you perhaps switch the rows around? The overlap of the middle fleur-de-lis at the top and the bottom has been found to make the overlapping elements less clear. Having the fleur-de-lis of the crown and the medal of the order positioned between the elements of the semée-de-lis seems to be preferable, and would alleviate the issues raised in the deletion request of the previous file. It would also be closer to File:First Royal Standard of France.jpg. Lemmens, Tom (talk) 21:52, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. :-) Lemmens, Tom (talk) 13:43, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
Congradulations! You did an excellent job, and it is as close as you can get to the real flag at the time of the Kingdom of France. Well done!--Captain Thor (talk) 05:23, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Question on knot in File:Lion_Rampant_tail_nowed.svg[edit]

Hi Sodacan, I know it's five years old, but the tail in File:Lion_Rampant_tail_nowed.svg is not actually knotted - the tip of the tail would have to pass underneath the upper bight (through the loop), whereas in the image it passes over. I'm not sure whether that was intentional or not, so thought I'd ask. Cheers, and thanks for all your fantastic work! Storkk (talk) 12:07, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sodacan, I've tried fixing it myself, but since I'm not an inkscape expert it's very hacky. Hope all is well, Storkk (talk) 11:51, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Requests for creating and uploading the Queen Mother and Queen Mary's Crown[edit]

Dear Sodacan, We want to see your SVG uploads of the Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's Crown and Queen Mary's Imperial Crown (Queen Mary is the wife of King George V). I hope that these creations will complete in an immediate time. So, don't forget to create and upload these diagrams! --ALF-MY (talk) 04:20, 19 May 2014 (UTC)ALF-MY

Recent en masse changes[edit]

Regarding the recent en masse changes you made, changing all uses of File:Australian Coat of Arms.png to File:Coat of Arms of Australia.svg, please note that Commons:Transition to SVG specifically says, "PNGs should not just be replaced en masse the instant an SVG replacement becomes available. It is often sufficient to label the image description page with a {{vector version available}} tag, and it will be migrated over to the SVG version by editors where appropriate." I'll also post this at your en.Wikipedia talk page in case you miss it here. --AussieLegend () 16:39, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Shape of Escutcheon of Queen Mother[edit]

Hello, thank you for taking the time to read this, and I do hope you'll respond.

Please forgive my ignorance on this matter - I am a student of heraldry, and upon seeing the arms of the Queen Mother, I was struck by the shape of the escutcheon, and wondered whether that shape held any particular significance. I understand that your execution is from a blazon in Pinches. I don't have access to that work, I was wondering whether there may have been a plate showing that shape of escutcheon, therein, and also wondered if there was a discussion of the shape of the escutcheon, therein. Alternately, if you could direct me to a reference discussing the shape of the escutcheon? I'm trying to work out if there is some manner of historical precedent for that, or a ruling somewhere by a herald.

Thank you again!

--Bardfinn (talk) 08:26, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

A bit of further research leads me to believe that this is a type of lozenge escutcheon (that I had not seen used before). I'm still curious as to whether this shape was from a plate in Pinches or if it was something you saw elsewhere or if it is your own introduction (I'm not faulting it; it seems a great way to handle fitting impaled arms of quartered arms into a lozenge).

Thanks once more!

--Bardfinn (talk) 08:53, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

A question about letters[edit]

Did you use any specific typeface when making the motto of some British coats of arms ("dieu et mon droit" etc) or did you make it from scratch? I am looking for a similar typeface for a side project and I'd appreciate any help.

Work of art[edit]

I simply must drop in and say 'I love your work'! Especially the coats of arms on the Order of Garter page. I' d love to see something similar done for the Order of the Thisle. Cheers ! Have a nice day :).--Killuminator (talk) 19:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

File:Chinese Dragon Banner.svg, File:Arms of the Qing Dynasty (fictitious).svg[edit]

Do you have sources for that file? The emblem of the late Qing dynasty I know is completely different...--Antemister (talk) 10:55, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

The file was a request by a user many years ago it was based on a cropped out version of this image (or its variant) File:Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary b15 462-3.jpg. The arms are evidently fictitious and was definitely never used by the Qing, it was probably an invention by a misguided artist (in this case Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary). I merely made it to satisfied the requested user, the title of the file reflects the fact that it was fictitious and was never used. To be fair this was not the case when I uploaded the file and I changed the information after I was informed of this fact. Upload your own emblem if you know what it is. The first file was just for fun on my part, just an ordinary blue Chinese-style dragon. Sodacan (talk) 12:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)