User talk:Yug/Archive2

Graphic work of Chinese stroke order Project

Projet Kanji-Hanzi

salut ! je bosse sur ce truc http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/, je fais la même chose que toi .. bon moi, je fais pour le wikibook japonais .. mais je pense que je te prendrais quelques exemples http://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/Table_des_mati%C3%A8res_%28Japonais%29 et ici surtout http://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/Japonais:Kanji_Le%C3%A7on_Ecriture_1. je pense que je vais refaire un peu les dessins (depuis je sais me servir un peu de photoshop;-))

moi, je crois que j'ai fait une boulette en choissisant MsMincho, c'est pas génial... m'enfin moi c'est plus dans un soucis pédagogique que artistique .. --M4RC0 12:47, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

je me suis amusé ..

bah je commence a voir le bout des 800 caractères simplifiés ..

Image:...-bw.png

• 片 入 牛 年 母 : ok
• 之: déjà corrigés
• 火 : erreurs confirmées; corrigées ?
• image:Bopomofo.png le caractère 6 (le son "T") qui doit être avec l'horizontale en premier, tel que
• Débat :
  • 万 方 qui sont des "japonais-moderne" -jbw non non .. chinois simplifié aussi , taiwanais et japonais (j'ai pas de dico de chinois traditionnel).
  • 車 北 牛 义 : il sont bon d'apres mes bouquins d'ecriture chinoise/taiwanais et japonais sauf le dernier 义 ou effectivement le point s'ecrit en 1er donc je corrige d'ici ce soir 火 et 义

heu je n'ai pas trop compris ton histoire de calligraphie moderne .. les ordres que je donnes sont ceux des bouqins de chinois simplifié et traditionnelle (J'utilise le Far east 3000 Chinese Character Dictionnary (un truc en taiwanais, les taiwanais visiblement inversent dans la clé de l'hallebarde les deux derniers traits, cela se voit bien sur le caractère "je", il y aura un peut etre un -tbw ;-) ). J'ai ramené aussi un paquet de dico et de flashcard diverse de mon voyage en chine dont le très bon 500 Basic chinese Characters et quelque dico de chinois avec les ordre aussi. j'ai aussi des facicule de calligraphie classique avec les mouvement de pinceaux etc ..

je viens de rajouter cela .. bon il existait déja une version en word (sans les transcriptions/ni le traditionnel) de Bellasen. l'images est un peu grosse .. bon l'alignement n'est pas gégé .. mais je suis plutot content de mon boulot .. le coloriage a été pénible. Mais j'ai pas mis très longtemps (4 heure pour faire le tout environ)..

Image:Chinese character memolist A3.png

Chinese character ordering

Hello. I saw the image Image:A huo.gif. The ordering seems different from the ordering in Japanese. I've written about this, so please check Image talk:A huo.gif.--Moja 18:52, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

bdd

donne moi exactement le format de ta table SQL je te filerai un début de remplissage

"san gungusue medium"

I would like to contribute... But I cannot find any mention of this font you are using anywhere? Where can I find it? —Muke Tever 06:49, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I created Image:上-red.png and Image:七-red.png — the second one is kind of rough, it was the first one I made (the antialiasing was not working properly for some reason). They show in la.wiktionary under la:wikt:上 and la:wikt:七. Is that about right? —Muke Tever 05:56, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for the information, I will remember it from now on. You are right about the downstroke in , it should be on top... it must have been an oversight. I will fix it now. —Muke Tever 21:23, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Category:Chinese stroke order/links

Hi Yug. I noticed Category:Chinese stroke order/links. It's empty; it doesn't look like you're using it as a category. Perhaps you want User:Yug/Chinese stroke order/links instead? dbenbenn | talk 22:03, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

凝

Sixteen strokes.

Well, I have been using Photoshop. I have the hue on 0 (red), saturation 100 (all the way up), and the brightness is a scale from 0 to 100. There are sixteen strokes, so fifteen color changes; I divide 100 by fifteen to get an interval of 6.6... Generally I find that color changes between 0 and 25 are really hard to see so I don't use them... so I divide it up further until I get the number of changes between 25 and 100.

• 100 / 15 = 6.66 interval and starting point
• 100 / 16 = 6.25 interval starting at 12.5
• 100 / 17 = 5.88 interval starting at 17.6
• 100 / 18 = 5.55 interval starting at 22.2
• 100 / 19 = 5.26 interval starting at 26.3 which is about right.

So, going from there our sixteen stroke colors (rounded because fractions aren't allowed) are:

1. 0 brightness (#000000)
2. 26 (#420000)
3. 32 (#520000)
4. 37 (#5E0000)
5. 42 (#6B0000)
6. 47 (#780000)
7. 53 (#870000)
8. 58 (#940000)
9. 63 (#A10000)
10. 68 (#AD0000)
11. 74 (#BD0000)
12. 79 (#C90000)
13. 84 (#D60000)
14. 89 (#E30000)
15. 95 (#F20000)
16. 100 (#FF0000)

I don't know if that will help you any, or if it is yet the best way, but it is what I have been doing lately. —Muke Tever 18:34, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

---

Thanks~ ... I use almost the same way : I divided 256 by the number of change,

Ex: 3 strokes => 255/2 = 127 , so #0 ; #127 ; #255 ; and then #000000 ; #??0000 and #FF0000

But that's a little difficult for big number.

I also noticed the problem from #000000 (black) to #350000 (around this) which all seems to be black, and I belived <past of "believe"> that was my computer. Jump this area seem a good solution.

Other thing, for really complexe characters, which contain 4 or more keys, like 凝, I think use one color by key can be a good and acceptable solution.

Last thing, can you add your main bibliography to Talk:Chinese_stroke_order:Hanzi_ways_of_writing#Bibliography ~

See you~~ Yug talk 08:58, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I am sorry, I do not have any books pertaining to this subject. —Muke Tever 22:28, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Image:Map-Chinese Characters.png

North Korea is also colored as dark green. North Korea uses traditional chinese characters. However, in real life, north and south korea seldomly use chinese character. We use korean character instead. BTW, Modern means "simplfied"? -- ChongDae 03:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, modern means ¨simplified¨. Are you north korean ? So, you say than (in addition of en:Hangul), north korean people use traditional characters (the old ones) when they write chinese characters. Please to confirm this in my talk page. Yug (talk) 13:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

In North Korea, they learn Chinese characters in high school(9th-12th). The simplified characters are used only in the mainland china. I don't think that NK adopt it. -- ChongDae 14:23, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Yug, there are comments quesetioning the Chinese characters map at the talk page for Chinese characters in the Wikipedia. Would be grateful if you could have a look.

User:Bathrobe

Admin

Tu es maintenant admin ici sur Commons. Bravo! villy ♦✎ 21:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Une photo

J'ai retrouvé cela dans mes archives photos de cet été, c'est une photo de retraité chinois qui recopie les classiques chinois avec de l'eau, on voit cela souvent dans les parc public. Ici c'est à coté de la foret de stêle (dans le temple de Confucius de souvenir) à Xian, donc il y a plein de magasin de pinceaux et de bouqins pour apprendre le calligraphie .. Merci pour ton mail --M4RC0 20:16, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

salut, j'espère que ton voyage en chine était bien. bon moi, c'est pas trop la joie en ce moment, j'ai été changer d'académie en catastrophe.. je me retrouve à l'iufm de lyon et affecter dans la vallée d'ayonnax dans l'ain. Bon j'ai pas d'appart et j'oscille entre chambre d'hotel et formule 1 , bref je suis "on the road" ;-). je continue de lire wikicommon des que j'ai une connexion .. mais bon je suis un peu occupé (en plus j'ai une premiere et des terminales SI .. en chinois/japonais le seul truc qui m'amuse un peu c'est http://www.zabor.org/jrpg/ sinon les bw , ben je crois que c'est pas avant longtemp. Bon courage à toi.--M4RC0 17:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Stroke order colors

These are the colors I have been using. They seem distinct enough.

Black to Red values
000000	ff0000
000000	800000	ff0000
000000	540000	ab0000	ff0000
000000	400000	800000	bf0000	ff0000
000000	540000	800000	AB0000	D40000	ff0000
000000	4a0000	6e0000	910000	b50000	db0000	ff0000
000000	400000	610000	800000	a10000	bf0000	e00000	ff0000
000000	4d0000	660000	800000	990000	b30000	cc0000	e50000	ff0000
000000	450000	5c0000	730000	8c0000	a30000	ba0000	d10000	e80000	ff0000
000000	400000	540000	6b0000	800000	940000	ab0000	bf0000	d40000	eb0000	ff0000
000000	4a0000	5c0000	6e0000	800000	910000	a30000	b50000	c90000	db0000	ed0000	ff0000

—Muke Tever 04:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

wikibooks:CJK

Hey Yug, I came across this today. Are you involved with it? If not, I think you probably should be! :) pfctdayelise (translate?) 09:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Bug gif

Pb enfin resolu!

http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1017

Je vais mettre les images 300x300 demain.

--Wikic 23:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Renaming request

(I can't find the right place for this request, sorry) Can somebody please rename the folowing files (my error in naming convention, & I'm stuck in the correction, redirects apparently won't work):

• Image:天-續甲骨文编.gif to Image:續甲骨文编_天.gif
• Image:天-金文编.gif to Image:金文编_天.gif
• Image:天-六書通.gif to Image:六書通_天.gif
• Image:天-說文解字.gif to Image:說文解字_天.gif

... thanks in advance, and sorry for my mistake. Micheletb 04:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

... posté au "village pump" sans succès, y a-t-il une solution simple? Micheletb 17:49, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

J'en ai finalement copier 3 , puis supprimé leur ancienne version. Je t'ai laisser la derniere pour que tu vois la manipulation [charger l'image sur son bureau ; réuploader sur commons avec licence, nouveau nom]. Je m'occuperais de la suppression du dernier mal-nomé :] Yug (talk) 14:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Je suis confus: j'allais m'y mettre, pour découvrir que tout est fait. Oups. A titre de consolation, une soupe de tortue aux nids d'hirondelle. Micheletb 12:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

{{Babel-1|VG-2}}

Thanks for the "medal" (-:

Cdang 10:30, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Stroke order

Merci!

Bonne chance pour ton exam =)!

--Wikic 21:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Gradiants tool for maps

Je t'ai répondu au Village pump J'ai fait les numéros en hexadecimal (je peux faire plus si vous plaît) au User:Platonides/Reds chart 16 colors, mais je suis trop fainéant pour les situer manualement. Parfois avec un script... Bonne chance avec ton examen. Platonides 20:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Corvée de vérification

Je ne suis pas très sûr de la hampe verticale de 报, que j'ai calquée sur celle de 陈. Mon dictionaire ne donne que les tracés des formes traditionelles, et la fonte retenue ne retient que les formes modernes, ce qui me handicape un peu. Micheletb 05:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Tout ceci me semble dans le bon ordre. Pour 报 aussi, meme si j'ai un petit doute sur la 2de clef.

Ensuite, il faut vraiment que tu travailles avec paintshop pro, car tu fais un bon travail foiré par le rendu de ton logiciel. Yug (talk) 23:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Hangeul

Salut Yug,

Au cas où j'aurais un peu de temps dans les semaines à venir, je peux débuter quelques caractères coréens ou poursuivre les kana si vous voulez. Par contre, je crois que vous n'avez pas indiqué la fonte à utiliser pour ces deux là. Il y a les noms des fontes chinoises mais pas japonaises ou coréennes (or le choix est important, par pour le coréen entre notamment entre la forme carré, la forme arrondie voire script qu'on peut voir sur l'image Image:Hunmin_jeong-eum.jpg).

a+ Eden2004 13:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Bon je devais terminer les katakana et attaqué ensuite l'hangeul, j'avais déja préparer les fichiers, de souvenir j'ai utilisé batang et batangche (il sont de base sous windows XP). Mai voila mon ordi a cramé .. avec mon photoshop itou .. donc pour l'instant je repars à la recherche d'un logiciel de dessin et ré-attaque.. Mais si tu veux je veux bien partager ;-). --M4RC0 15:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Salut, on aurait besoin de Marco sur les 214 [en fait ~ 330 !] clefs. Ignis et D323 font, doucement mais joliment les katakana-hiragana. Si Eden [tu] pouvais gérer doucement les hangeuls et Marco rejoindre la page des 214 clefs ce serait le mieux. En fait, je pense qu'il faut surtout continuer a déterminer les voie chinoise-jap-trad et finir les bw.png des clefs validées (par les ), ceci d'ici le 15 septembre environ, ce qui servira de source a tous les futurs caracteres. En parallele les alphabets peuvent se faire doucement. Yug (talk) 08:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Je suis en attente de quelques documents de mes collègues coréens et je m'y mets (comme je le disais à Yug -voir sa page sur fr:-), la Batang peut poser quelques problème de droit, ayant une forme de caractères assez originale). Je serais sans doute absent les deux premières semaines d'Août, mais j'espère avoir ça assez vite et avoir le temps d'avancer avant cette date. Eden2004 16:09, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Image:Font samples.png

• a = 经典繁方篆
• b = 汉鼎繁印篆
• c = 汉仪粗篆繁 (ma recommandée pour le sigillaire "petit sceau")
• d = 汉鼎繁古印
• e = 汉鼎简隶变
• f = 汉仪中隶书繁 (ma recommandée pour le style "scribe")
• g = 汉仪大隶书繁
• h = 汉鼎简楷体 (style calligraphique)
• i = Arial
• j = 汉鼎简黑变
• k = 汉鼎繁颜体
• l = 汉鼎繁中变
• m = 汉仪行楷繁 (ma recommandée pour le style "cursif")
• n = 汉鼎繁舒体
• o = Bitstream Cyberbit (très complète, gratuite)

Voir plus d'exemples sur http://www.ibiblio.org/chinesehistory/features/feat02.html. Micheletb 07:24, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

COMHU

Thank you for your kind comments Yug. I have been tinkering with the idea for a while and am working on a paper. I will be adding material here shortly, I would appreciate any criticism if you have time. -Magna 16:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Me too!

A website that I visit Review The Kanji makes use of your project. I\'d like to volunteer to help create more animations. I\'m reading up on what I can find about it. Any pointers that you can lend me to let me be involved will be appreciated.--CharleyGarrett 17:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Hirata.Jimmy

Please see the answer in your talk page User talk:CharleyGarrett.

Je te croyais en chine !

Bon tant mieux si tu es dispo. Qu'est-ce que les -bw.png (image .png en noir & blanc dont le nom se termine par -bw.png ?). Je ne dispose pas d'assez de temps pour faire des .gif (ni de l'expérience de Wikic) de plus par forcément utile pour le tibétain (dont en plus je ne connais pas l'ordre des traits !). Je vais commencer par chercher une police d'écriture libre en tibétain. VIGNERON 18:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Je viens de commencer par du simple : créer les SVG à partir des trigrammes en PNG (cf. Category:Trigramme).

Ca C'est très utile ! les petits png sont peu utilisables. Une astuce: nomes plutot les svg telque Don-korea.svg pour ne pas entrer en conflit avec d'autres images.

Je veux bien m'attaquer au japonais, pour être sur de ne pas me tromper:

1. "le hiragana"-bw.png
2. Category:Japanese kana stroke order in BW pictures.
3. Police du protocole si elle fonctionne. Une autre police élegante sinon.

Sur Talk:Chinese stroke order:Strategy, j'ai lu Please : don't work on Hanzi/Kanji/Hanja for the moment, this issue is still not clear and in discussion. Qu'en est-il ? VIGNERON 21:32, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Pour ceci, ce qu'il en est c'est qu'on continue a travailler sur les Chinese stroke order:214 radicals. Tout n'est pas clarifié, alors 5% du travail fait sur les Kanji pourait se voir à éffacé. C'est tout. Si cela ne te dérange pas d'avoir des pertes alors tu peux y aller. Voilà, A+ Yug (talk) 17:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Hangûl

Hello!

Juste un petit coucou pour dire que je n'ai pas abandonné la réalisation des dessins de tracés pour le hangûl ^^ Malheureusement, le collègue coréen qui devait me fournir un peu de documentation calligraphiée et/ou de ressources ne m'a rien fourni (hélas, les coréen sont des gens charmants mais j'ai pu vérifier plusieurs fois qu'ils étaient plus serviables dans les mots que dans les actes ^o^) donc tant pis, je me débrouille seul. Pour contourner le problème de la batang, et aussi parce que ça fera une ressource intéressante à priori également inédite, je suis en train de refaire l'alphabêt en SVG et en légèrement calligraphié, dont tu peux suivre l'évolution ici. Lorsque j'aurais un petit matelas (disons milieu/fin de la semaine prochaine), je commencerais à faire les bw (ce qui sera facile, vu que j'ai respecté les tracés).

N'hésites pas à me faire part de tes remarques. Eden2004 14:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Tiens, toujours en rapport avec le projet, je viens de voir que fr:あ utilise un stroke ordre qui avait été fait précedémment pour wikibook, il y a deux ans, et qui est sur Commons. La catégorie Category:Japanese writing en est pleine, y compris un certain nombre de kanjis! Eden2004 13:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Salut!

J'ai quarante-douze-mille projets wikipédesques menés de front, mais le chinois reste dans ma ligne de mire. Ces temps-ci je me suis plongé sur les constellations, avec des animations (tout ça c'est de moi), pour me donner un bol d'oxygène scientifique suite à mon intervention massive sur l'fr:astrologie où j'ai tout refondu; mes interventions massives sur l'fr:héraldique (ou j'ai aussi tout refondu) se sont également calmées... et comme j'interviens à titre de fr:wikipédia:wikipompier, ça ne me laisse guère la maîtrise de mon temps. Comme les animations chinoises n'étaient qu'une distraction latérale pour moi et que le résultat ne paraît pas techniquement parfait, j'ai un peu laissé tomber, pour me consacrer à la saisie des étymologies à la petite semaine (voir sur le wikitionnaire). En parallèle j'ai dans mes fichiers perso un grand tableau contenant tous les caractères chinois et leur décomposition (糸 + 弘 = 紭) remplis à 88.9% à ce jour... dès que c'est fini j'en fais le transfert, ça permettra d'alimenter quelques robots pour la recherche de caractères. Mais si tu as besoin d'une animation dans un coin, n'hésite pas, je suis encore en vie. Micheletb 19:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Voici : Chinese characters decomposition - en fait il y a 7.4% de trous sur le premier caractère et 10.8% sur le second. N'hésite pas à travailler dessus, ça fait un bout de temps que je n'avance pas de ce côté. Micheletb 13:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

re: explicit uploads

I was reverting a user who had been censoring images. See Special:Undelete/Image:Fellatio1.jpg. If you look in my upload log you can see I did those reverts. The user in question was indef blocked [1]. Hope that hepls explain the mess.--Nilfanion 14:00, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

-order.gif : Y a une manière plus rapide?

Salut, désolé de vous gêner. Y a-t-il une manière plus rapide de créer images de .gif de ? Je suis en train de créer qq dossiers semblables pour l'alphabet arabe, mais je dois créer 15-25 captures séparées pour un dossier simple, ie. une lettre simple. Donc, ma question, si oui, pouvez vous m'enseigner? Merci beaucoup! --Shibo77 15:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Merci! (= --Shibo77 17:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Your deletion

May I remind you that we do not censor the content of Wikimedia Commons? We do allow sexual explicit content if it is useful for a Wikimedia project and if all other requirements (like model release and free license) get respected. Have a look at Category:Sex. This means especially that if you consider a certain sexual explicit image wihich is freely licensed as useless crap make a proper deletion request. Thatfor I have restored Image:Orgasm.jpg and urge you not to delete perfectly legal images just because you dislike them personally. Thank you. Arnomane 23:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, have you look this image ?

"We do allow sexual explicit content" I know. "if it is useful for a Wikimedia project" so, show me where this image is use ? in which wikipedia ? this image is on commons since october 2005, and no one article use it. No one on 4 millions articles. Look yourself, the photo is in really bad quality, too dark, illustrating nothing except the sexual intercourse of the uploader.

Honnestly, say me where we will use this ? Yug (talk) 23:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I know the image. That very image is used in de.wikipedia and obviously people needed it and there does not seem to be a better replacement image. If you feel unhappy with the image quality make a normal deletion request. It is our strict Commons:Deletion guidelines not to speedy delete images that do not meet personal quality requirements. So feel free to make a proper Commons:Deletion requests and then we can sort it out. No question there is quite some poor quality crap in Commons but you cannot make delete decissions just based on your own quality definition. Arnomane 00:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I made a mistake. I just think we can keep clear sex pictures, but we don't have to keep tens ugly and unuse ones so we have to delete them. looking on the chekusage (working), it seem clear that I made a mistake with this one. Your undelete was right, and my delete was wrong. See you. Yug (talk) 10:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Censure ?

hello Cool cat, I don't want censure neither, but I don't want commons become a garbage. Some users play with us, uploading unencyclopedic sex pictures, in bad quality (took with webcam), showing nothing clearly. 6 months after the pics is use nowhere, because it's unusable. Simply. So Yes, I deleted such files.
We can play the tolerance, the democraty, talk and talk again. Facts are here : ugly photography of pornography, unusable in wikipedias, and with a point of view unusable.
You even didn't seen which photos a deleted, and you didn't checked their usage to find out that no one wikipedia use such photos.
If you want play the hero saying "Stop the censure", go to China, not on Wikipedia. Chinese gouvernement censure any evocation of Democraty, Taiwanese independance, and Sex. Yug (talk) 23:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

O_o;

So long as criteria is not the content of the pictures, I am fine with other criteria such as quality, copyrights, and etc... We want high quality porn on commons after all :P

--Cat out 07:34, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Exactly ! That what we want ! :] Yug (talk) 09:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC) >.O

Re: Thanks ~

I might not always agree with you, Yug, but I do respect your passion for the Commons. :)

BTW: I wrote a policy on this some months ago. Please read Commons:Nudity. It is not an official policy though.

Also: you don't need to announce everything you do...sometimes it creates more controversy. :) Most admins I know are aware of the problem of "sex pics". And you have to remember that regardless of what rules we create, most users will never read them. So having an official policy against such pictures won't actually stop people uploading them, it just might make it a tiny bit easier for you to justify deleting them. The work is the same, though.

cheers, pfctdayelise (说什么?) 13:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Ooops, sorry! BTW = By the way. pfctdayelise (说什么?) 15:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Huh?

hh how is it a copyvio i created it myself --Kimberly Ashton 22:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Ohhhhhhhhh whatever you do dont delete it cause ill let people use the image just only on wiki. --Kimberly Ashton 23:10, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

OK i just dont wanna be submitted to bad sites like myspace and used like an icon. --Kimberly Ashton 23:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the losing the case and fixing that stuff. how do you become an admin? all ya do is upload. --Kimberly Ashton 23:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I'm an American teenager. We're a bit slow and I'm proud. Since I am an American I use slang from you to ya and affair to some case. Sorry. :-) --Kimberly Ashton 00:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Chaudron / Marmite : vases chinois anciens

Bonjours aux oracliens :], voila donc ma question mi-art, mi-chinoise:
Il existe en chinois 2 mots différents pour désigner 2 type de "vases différents". Mon vocabulaire en vase et chaudron est trop limité, et je ne trouve pas les 2 mots francais équivalant.

• 鼎 : le premier ce sont des vases de bronze à trois pieds. Le récipiant est une sphère. Voir images Google. Je pense que ceci est un "Tripode rituel" de bronze.
• 鬲 : le second est un vase souvent de bronze ou de terre cuite à trois pieds. Le récipiant est plus spécial, car c'est l'union de 3 vases. Voir images Google. J'ignore comment nomer ces "tri-vases".
  

Toute proposition sérieuse est la bienvenue :] Yug (talk) 29 septembre 2006 à 19:56 (CEST)

Voir Wieger, "caractères chinois"

On trouve page 362 de ce merveilleux livre (que je n'ai pas encore totalement purgé sur le wikitionnaire) que 鼎 est traduit par "bassin (ting)", un truc à quatre pieds de la deuxième dynastie; alors que 鬲 est une "marmite (keue)" tripode de la troisième dynastie. C'est le "vase à libation (tsiâo)" de la deuxième dynastie qui correspond au "tripode rituel" pour Wieger (l'impression est épouvantable, je n'arrive pas à lire le caractère correspondant).

Ceci dit, 鼎 est effectivement la clef 206, que Couvreur (S.J.) traduit "Chaudière ou Marmite qui avait trois pieds, et servait pour les offrandes ou les sacrifices".

• Livre Étymologique, 鼎 : "Un ancien récipient de cuisson en forme de tripode ou à quatre pieds, avec deux anses";

Ce "Livre Étymologique" est souvent très approximatif, donc peu fiable. Je préfère les références de Wieger et du Couvreur, nettement plus sérieuses. L'étymologie est 目 (figurant ici un vase) posé sur un pied gauche 爿 et un droit 片, le troisième support étant sous-entendu derrière (Wieger, leçon étymologique 127 D). Le 鼎 semble avoir été utilisé avant tout comme bassin symbolisant le pouvoir central, ou l'autorité: les exemples classiques associés sont liés à l'expression du pouvoir, pas tellement de à divination, et c'est plus un symbole statique qu'un outil utilisé dans des cérémonies. C'est le symbole n° 50 du Yi King, "le chaudron". C'est apparemment aussi le terme générique pour tout ce qui resselmble à un chaudron tripode, voir aussi en:Ding (vessel).

鬲 est la clef 193, "Marmite dont les pieds étaient creux et allaient en s'écartant les uns des autres. Elle contenait cinq "hou" et deux "cheng", et servait pour les sacrifices".

• Livre étymologique, 鬲 : "un récipient en terre cuite avec trois pieds creux.

Leçon étymologique n°155: image (!?) d'une marmite à trois pieds. Apparemment, c'est également une représentation symbolique de quelque chose lié à la forme (trois contenant fusionnant en une unité), primitivement en terre cuite, et par la suite en bronze.

• Livre étymologique donne également, 貞: "Tripode en bronze utilisé lorsqu'on faisait chauffer la tige en métal servant à brûler les os divinatoires": c'est probablement lui, le "tripode de divination".

C'était apparemment un récipient plutôt carré, donc pas tellement un "tripode". L'étymologie donnée par Wieger (56C) est que c'est les honoraires (貝) donnés pour une divination (卜), ce qui n'aurait pas de rapport avec une forme de chaudron particulière.

Globalement, je dirais que 鼎 est plutôt le "chaudron" alors que 鬲 est plutôt "tripode rituel". Michelet-密是力 29 septembre 2006 à 20:25 (CEST) Salut, Yug, ça fait un bail. Et tes animations, ça marche toujours?

En outre, attention à ne pas confondre divination et ex-voto... Michelet-密是力 29 septembre 2006 à 20:37 (CEST)

Salut Michelet, les 2 semblent donc servir aux rituels..... Un livre que je viens de regarder précise que... les deux sont d'abord des chaudrons/marmite de cuisine, puis sont devenues des outils rituels. Suivant tes définitions et google je tente ce qui suit. Yug (talk) 30 septembre 2006 à 00:25 (CEST)

Sur trois mille ans d'usage, les significations tendent à glisser... si du nous donnais le contexte, on pourrait faire plus précis, mais dans l'absolu, tout à été employé à la place de n'importe quoi et il n'en reste qu'une vague bouillie sémantique. Michelet-密是力 30 septembre 2006 à 09:11 (CEST)

Complètes avec ta proposition de nom (court) :

• 鼎 : "Chaudron (tripode) rituel de bronze" (Yug) "Bassin de cérémonie (en bronze et à pieds)" pas nécessairement tripode, et il en existe de toute taille (Michelet)
• 鬲 : "Vase (tripode) rituel" (Yug) "Vase triple rituel" (Michelet)

J'ai interviewé une chinoise de mes connaissance, mais elle a "séché", ne connaissant que les idéogrammes modernes! J'ai l'impression qu'il y a eu de nombreux glissements sémantiques sur ces caractères. As tu une idée du contexte? Micheletb 18:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

image licence d'histoire

Salut, je suis tombé sur [ceci] que tu as créé, où il y a deux erreurs d'orthographe : "leurS travaux" et "mettez-les" avec un tiret. C'est important vu le public visé par l'image (profs de fac, ...) qui d'ailleurs est ancienne, mais sait-on jamais. J'ignore comment faire pour la retoucher. Bourrichon 00:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

2 questions

Hi Yug, like the subject says, I have two questions. :)

One is: is there anywhere a step-by-step explanation of how you make the stroke order animated GIFs? Or techniques?

I am interested in learning a language that has an Arabic script, and I realised I don't even know how to write the letters, because I don't know the "stroke order". I think "stroke order" diagrams can be useful for all alphabets as well as CJK characters. For example do we have anything like this for people learning a language with a Latin script? It could be useful, to improve handwriting as well. So my second question is: just wondering if you have seen any "stroke order" things for Arabic alphabets, around on the web?

cheers, pfctdayelise (说什么?) 06:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Question about ChuNom image

Did you make this

Chữ Nôm

image by yourself? If you did, may I tag that image at {{PD-self}} or {{GFDL-self}}? LERK (Talk / Contributions) 15:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, that image is not yours. Source is in English Wikipedia. LERK (Talk / Contributions) 15:49, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

salut

Réponse + autre message sur ma page. Micheletb 04:35, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Salut, 你好,

我就是那个nvtsky.我想参加汉字的计划。我的地址是：nvtskyhotmail.com.我特别想得到您的帮忙。 谢谢。

nvtsky

Re: CJK Stroke order project

Thanks for your helpful comments. When I have a little time on my hands I will investigate further. I have Photoshop but that's about it for my capabilities right now. Cheers, Fang Aili 15:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

GIF problem

I've answered you on the village pump ... --WarX 08:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Bonjour!

Bonjour Hugo, eh oui j'ai réussi à rentrer sur ce site et à regarder tout ca que tu as fait. Il ne faut pas croire que je m'en fiche...je voulais juste te dire que je suis super fière de toi pour tout ce que tu fais sur ce site!!!!! ca nous servira pour toutes les prochaines années ou l'on fera du chinois. Je suis vraiment très fière de mon copain, continue!!! : ) Ta señorita. ; )

Mauvaises manières

Salut Yug,

Peux-tu m'expliquer pourquoi tu as fait une requête en mon nom ainsi qu'au nom de Jd sur en:Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Images to improve ? J'espère que c'est une erreur de copier-coller ou quelque chose comme ça, parce que je trouve plutôt malpoli de déposer une requête à la place de quelqu'un, d'autant plus que ça n'exprimait pas du tout ma volonté (qui était l'inverse, et Historicair avait très bien fait ce que j'avais demandé).

D'autre part, si la création de ce "Graphics Lab" est une bonne idée pour laquelle je te félicite, je trouve dommage que tu n'aies pas tenu compte de l'avis des gens sur Commons:Village pump qui proposaient comme nom "Graphic Studio", qui sonne moins "traduction du français" que "Lab".

Voili voilà, le Korrigan →bla 12:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Mouais. En l'occurence tu n'as pas "réutilisé" ma requête, tu l'as inventé et surtout tu l'as écrite en mon nom. Ce n'est vraiment pas acceptable sur Wiki, j'attendais au moins des excuses... Pour Jd, je ne sais pas, donner un lien vers sa requête d'origine aurait été la moindre des choses. Si tu inventais des requêtes, tu pouvais alors les signer en ton nom. En ce qui me concerne, mes requêtes je les dépose soit directement sur Commons grâce aux tags {{Image for cleanup}} et associés (pour les trucs simples), soit sur fr.wikipedia pour les plus compliqués.

Pour le nom, bah, "studio" a plusieurs sens, il a un sens plus général que celui d'un peintre. Tu pouvais aussi admettre que ton niveau d'anglais était peut-être inférieur à celui des intervenants sur la Village Pump, et que "Lab" pouvait sonner assez mauvais. Quant à tes heures d'implication, elles sont à mon avis plus effficaces quand tu tiens compte de l'avais des autres.

Bon wikibreak tout de même, en espérant que ce projet marche sur en: aussi bien qu'il a marché sur Wikipédia. le Korrigan →bla 13:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Break

Thank you. I never will come back to Wikipedia. There's other better comunities. Now they are violating my copyright using my images without my consent.--jolle 20:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Changes on Image:Vergleich zh-Hant-CN zh-Hant-TW ja-Hani ko-Hani.png

Bonjour Lyhana8, you changed the character representation in the image Image:Vergleich zh-Hant-CN zh-Hant-TW ja-Hani ko-Hani.png. Maybe you can add some source information (e.g. which books you refer to). I translated the description to english, so you know how I created this image. I would be grateful if we can make this image perfect so we can use it to display differences in locales. But we need good source information :) --Chrislb 12:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

About Image:Table hiragana.jpg and Image:Table katakana.jpg

Please tell us where the source site states that their files are licensed under Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike 2.0. Thank you. LERK (Talk / Contributions) 08:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Using stroke order list from Chinese stroke order:214 radicals

Hi Yuk, you contributed some stroke order entries to the list in Chinese stroke order:214 radicals. I would like to use the list for a start to build an even bigger one over time. The content now is under GFDL as all the text in commons is under GFDL. I would like to use it under en:Creative Commons 2.0 (the german version (de)) though. I am therefore asking you and Wikic to kindly release it under a second license. You can either answer here or write me an e-mail. Thanks for your time. --Chrislb 19:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Massiv PNG upload for Clerical and Kaishu

I am not a lawyer, but as far as I can tell, although fonts may be copyrighted in the US, but that copyright doesn't cover samples of the font (basically anything using the font). That's why we have Category:Fonts. After reading Wikipedia:Public domain, I think you'd be fine in uploading the Clerical and Kaishu characters. Uploading in PNG is apparently the safer choice, as "a rasterized representation (e.g. bitmap) of the characters in a scalable font is not protected by copyright in the United States", but I think even an SVG might be acceptable. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Re

Hello,

Y'a pas d'mal, c'est déjà oublié :-) et puis ton Graphic Lab a l'air de bien marcher, c'est l'essentiel.

A+, le Korrigan →bla 15:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

composition des idéogrammes

• C'est mon travail, oui.
• Je suis en train de le compléter ces temps ci, si tu n'as pas d'urgence, attends une ou deux semaines avant de récupérer le fichier, que je fasse la mise à jour de mes ajouts. Je fais des compléments et des corrections, la version suivante sera nettement améliorée. Si c'est pressé, laisse un mot.

Micheletb 20:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Mahoma

Because I cannot put that image if it seems to me pretty and graceful. Well stupid they are those of Wikipedia Commons.

I have a short question :-)

I like this Kalligraphie [2] very much, but accidently I don´t know what it means. Can you please translate it for me? Thank you very much, yours sincerely,

Philipp, Bremen, Germany :-)

Image:BD-propagande-3.jpg pour les "érudits officiels"

Salut !

Je relisais ton message [3], auquel je n'avais pas répondu jusqu'à maintenant, pas parce qu'il n'est pas intéressant, mais parce que sur le moment je n'ai rien trouvé d'intelligent à répondre.

Je trouve l'idée intéressante, mais tes propositions pour le moment sont trop décousues pour en faire directement quelque chose. Il faudrait isoler un script en quelques cases qui transmette l'idée de fond de façon simple ; or l'idée est complexe et a plusieurs volets.

Je n'ai pas vraiment d'expérience directe d'interaction avec des experts du genre que tu décris (mon expérience se limite à des gens acquis à notre cause, comme Alain_r, ou à des photographes, pour qui le problème se pose en termes similaires mais différents). Pour faire une BD de propagande, il faudrait soit que je sois bien impregné de la question, soit que j'aie un script assez léché à réaliser.

L'affiche est une bonne idée ; s'il y a une occasion de l'employer, je suis partant pour la faire (au besoin en vectoriel).

Bonne continuation ! Rama 10:25, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

OsamaBinLadenPropagandaPoster.jpg

The uploader has no permision from the creater of the placard, only the permission of the fotograf of the picture, which shows the placard. That's not enough. --DaB. 01:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Commons:WikiProject CJK stroke order (SVG)

I moved your project there as the main namespace is only intended to be used for galleries. Thanks, Yonatan ^talk 17:51, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Star a new GL on Commons

• 

• Cartographic team ?

user:Saravask, based on work by user:Planemad and user:Nichalp

Feedback sur Image:自-animated.svg

• Attention, le contenu de ce message peut choquer certains lecteurs :-(
• Bon, j'exagère un peu, mais je ne suis pas enthousiasmé par le résultat.
• Peut-être un problème de temporisation? Sur mon browser, les traits sont tracés trop vite, et l'intervalle entre traits est trop long, et le retour visuel sur l'ensemble n'est pas très évident.
• Mais peut-être suis-je de mauvais poil d'avoir du télécharger Opera pour visualiser la chose - ce format svg animé, c'est tout nouveau, ou ça se généralisera?

A+ Micheletb 05:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Essaye de t'inspirer du protocole de découpage qu'on avait pour les .pict et les temporisations associées, alors. Non? Micheletb 06:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

AMHA, les traits individuels sont tracés trop rapidement, on ne voit pas tellement la différence entre l'instant de début et celui de la fin. Sinon, j'ai posé ma candidature comme admin, pour pouvoir faire les nettoyages et renommages d'images moi-même, mais ça n'a pas l'air d'attirer les foules ;o) Micheletb 17:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

LOL: tu prends très à coeur ma candidature! merci pour le "lifting" de ma page utilisateur. Micheletb 17:46, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi.

Thank you for your message on my JAWP page. It is my pleasure if my translation helped you. Some Japanese Wikipedians have already shown some interest in reply to your post. The question on "what is authentic Japanese stroke order" has been posed, too. ^^ I hope your project gain many contributers and have a good progress. I will try to see what I can do, if possible, too. Salut! --Aotake 11:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Chanueting

I would like to join the project, but where can I get more information? Should I join the one to make .png or .svg? Please leave me a message in my Chinese talk page, thank you very much Chanueting 14:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you need the stroke order of the Kangxi dictionary? If yes , I may copy it or scan it, and upload it. And about the Oracle word , I can help you to find in the en:Shuowen Jiezi,i.e.zh:說文解字. What can I also help you, please state and I would try my best. Thank you for telling me the right stroke order. Chanueting 14:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I should admit to you that I don't know. I'm french, I have spend one year in Taiwan (2003-2004), and get a basical understanding calligraphy and of Hanzi. Back to France, I started to study History and one year later to study Chinese in more. But I still just know about 1000 characters, and I never had the Shuowen Jiezi and the Kangxi Zidian in my hand (I just have one online version which help my as graphic reference). I'm french, and it is many Chinese possible ressources that I don't know, or that I just heard about (+ read the Wikipedia article: i.e. the Shuowen Jiezi). I don't know exactly what contain these books, so I can't know what to answer.

My call for chinese contributors is also for that : you would probably have more knowledge, and more books in your cities that I can have in my city of en:Bordeaux.

For such things, you are the expert and you can choice freely what is the more efficient. --Yug (talk) 14:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I want to know how do you find the orarle words? Chanueting 15:24, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

sorry, I was wrong, the words in Shuowen Jiezi are in great seal and small seal. And I can help you to find those words in dictationary? Chanueting 15:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

^-^ , the 古漢字計劃 work using http://www.internationalscientific.org --Yug (talk) 15:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

do you have IRC or use the wiki one? Chanueting 15:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Just want to ask you some question instantly. And you may no longer to paste the redirect to my talk page, I will check yours, thanks Chanueting 15:41, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

In the page you have given, there are too many word style to choose, how can we know which is suitable? Chanueting 15:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Added in my list. Chanueting 15:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

They are all suitable, in this ancient times, each country had its own set of Jiaguwen or jinwen or Dazhuan. We have to choice the best, the most interesting Jiaguwen, the most interesting Jinwen, and the most interesting Dazhuan. On the 古漢字計劃, we state that we choice one character which should "as most as possible be the most interesting Ancient character, using this 3 following guidelines for selection :

• Ancient character showing clearly what they means, such
• Ancient character showing a natural evolution style after style (look close of the next style, and also look like the previous style)
• Ancient character widely use in Ancient China (if it's know)."

You can improve this rules if you find a better way. --Yug (talk) <my university is closing, I must go. Moreover, I need to sleep a bit, so I will probably not turn on my home computer. You can continue to ask me help, but i will have the answer tomorow ;] >

It seems that you were not google, or I added the wrong account, that's a pity Chanueting 10:54, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I 'd like to ask you about Image:ACC SVG tutorial.png, after asking User:Theresa Knott, It seems that you can also look User talk:Theresa Knott#User:Chanueting if it can help you. And if you are free, please check [4] if there are any problems in the images I have uploaded. Also, I would like you to remove my name on your user page, I don't think I could be a leader on this project as I am a green hand on it. But I am free for anyone who need my help. Chanueting 14:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I want to know what "LST Seal Characters" are. Are they words in Great seal? Chanueting 15:18, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, "LST Seal Characters" images are Great seal script. They should be rename into *-bigseal.gif , then converte into *-bigseal.svg --Yug (talk) 08:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

And I would like to ask you why I cannot put a link in the "Other notes :" of the template ACClicense? Chanueting 11:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

why you cannot put a link in the "Other notes :" I don't know, I'm still testing the ACClicense template, it's not the final version. I still have to improve and complete it (in example: the image code will have to appear.) --Yug (talk) 08:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I want to ask if we can make some symbol to mark those words which cannot found in internationalsientific.org on the list? So that anyone who join the project won't try to find the word on internationalsientific.org and we can differ them and would not go to check again (I feel mad about this!). (But the one can find words somewhere else. And I think we should find the missing words later.) Chanueting 14:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I also noticed this point, which need a solution.

For the moment, I have work (a little) in the 214 Kangxi radicals list, from the first radical, to the 2nd, then the 3rd ...., Converting all available script into SVG, and then uplaod it to commons. If an svg image is not in the list, that means this script is not on internationalscientific.org .

I checked or did 一 , 丶 , 丿 , 乙 and 亅. So you can start from 二. --Yug (talk) 08:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I have listed out Images needs checking (although the name is not correct at all), I hope you can help us on these pictures first. Thanks. Chanueting 15:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

It is to notice that Richard Sears may be now improving his website, and moving data. The fact that no seal 日 are in its website is strange, and I noticed such strange missing for some other characters which seems empty while, obviously, they should have available data. R. Sears will maybe provide further images later, or an update of his website, but this is not our question now.

Sorry to don't help you more. --Yug (talk) 08:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, I would like to ask you what we should do on Image:鬥-bronze.svg. Should I ask you to delete it? Chanueting 11:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

No answer for this. I will see it later (I still haven't clic on to see the trouble). --Yug (talk) 08:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

By the page 考證, if there is no changes of this edition, it is told to print on 道光八年七月, but I have to check when it on the Western Calendar is Chanueting 12:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I have checked the date should be within February,1821. i.e. A 1821 reprint version. Chanueting 13:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I have read the 凡例, which shows the usuage and what the book refers to. It said that it was referenced the 說文 and the other book that I have never heard of: 正韻, the former use Xiaozhuan (en:Small Seal Script), however, I don't know what type of letter of the latter use. After reading some parts of the dictionary, it seems that the words at the top of this dictionary are majority in Xiaozhuan. But I cannot find any copy of the 正韻. I hope this incomplete info can help you. Chanueting 13:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I would like to ask you want we have to do on Image:气-bigseal.svg, do we need to delete the 米 part from the image? Chanueting 11:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

okay, how about the above question? Chanueting 12:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

and how to resize to fit the 270*270? It is hard to use mouse to resize like this. Chanueting 13:00, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Have you uploaded a wrong file Image:交-bronze.svg? It seems that it is the word 文. And I think you should have a look to Image:月-seal.svg before editing the Image:夕-seal.svg, I think it is what you call "H" and "S" in the CJK project rather that a curve. I think we should use a better word, which have no artistically stroke to replace the word Image:士-bigseal.svg, Image:口-bigseal.svgand Image:王-bigseal.svg Chanueting 13:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

oops, it seems that you upload a series of wrong file called 交-****.svg. Please delete them and upload the with the correct name, Thanks. Chanueting 13:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, do we need to resize them all? Chanueting 14:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

sorry about the vandalism, it seems that someone have hacked my account, either chinese wiki and commons. Chanueting 01:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Gif et inkskape

Je ne connais pas inkscape, & ne sais pas à quelle vitesse il fait les conversions. Donc, c'est globalement plus difficile pour moi - ;o) - il faut d'abord installer le programme, apprendre comment ça marche... alors que pour illustrer le wikitionnaire (liste des étymologies illustrées) ça ne prend que quelques clics. Et tu exagères de dire que "personne n'utilise", je fais régulièrement des basculements de version sur les wiki japonais et vietnamiens (sans rien comprendre à la page - gag). Mais effectivement, si le processus de vectorisation est en panne, c'est un (petit) problème.

Je suis désolé qu'Erin soit absente. Richard Sears (l'auteur du site) me demandait si ça prend beaucoup de temps pour faire le transfert gif>svg (il envisageait de l'automatiser pour son site), et je l'avais renvoyé à elle. Saurais-tu lui répondre? je te fais suivre le mail.

Micheletb 05:00, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

J'ai mis un mot à zh:user talk:Chanueting (mais suis bien incapable de lui parler en chinois!). Sinon, OK, je me pencherais sur inkscape ce WE (mais je n'ai qu'un vieux PC de 10 ans d'âge, à bout de souffle...). Michelet-密是力 06:00, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Que penses tu de mes dernières créations? Michelet-密是力 14:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

300x300, OK, c'est mieux?

Graphics lab

Hi! Thanks for the note. Commons has (my very rough estimate, based on what I've seen.. it is likely higher) over 800,000 images requiring cleanup or vectorisation. It will be useful to have a place where people can post important images for cleanup, such as those used in many articles or images which are the only example of their subject but are in poor shape. Once it expands a little I'll see about adding stuff and I'll make sure to help out :) -- Editor at Large • talk 14:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I fixed up the header on the main page as well as making some other changes. One thing though: you've referred to me a few times as "factual leader", and while I don't mind being the go-to person for help and questions regarding it I really don't think that wikimedia projects have leaders. We aren't a democracy where there are people "in charge" but rather a collaborative effort where some people might be more involved than others and thus are more likely to be able to answer your questions. Feel free to send people my way, but "contact" is probably a better term than "factual leader" :) . All the best with your exams! -- Editor at Large • talk

Thanks

Wow, thanks for your kind info. Rintojiang 23:39, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Yug, how could I contribute to this project? Rintojiang 00:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Merci

Merci d'avoir si brillamment soutenu cette candidature: le succes est un peu le tien ;o) A+ Michelet-密是力 15:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Re

Thank you for your message in my talk page very much! Hope we will all have advancements. Regards. --Chaplin 09:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Chaplin is my schoolmate, and he is a S1 student, I would like him to join this project and help us on the Chinese if needed. As I would have wikibreak from June until May next year, I hope he can replace my role on reading Chinese and also the image making. Thank you, Yug. Chanueting 11:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Maps projects coordination

With your experience in the Commons:Graphic Lab/Maps project, a matter with some relation --place name list/identifier with maps 'Proto-project' is being discussed here: w:Talk:List_of_countries_in_Europe#Proto-proposal -- and I wondered whether you'd care to advise us on what's already in the works of a similar (or identical!) nature to your knowledge.

Also noticed some of your Wikpedia links aren't working, go to missing pages, etcetera. Also FYI, note {{Cms}}, {{Wpd}} and {{Mta}} are some useful complimentary site independent templates for crosslinks between English sister projects. They are totally portable between projects, so prose can be written on one site with links, and transposed elsewhere to another sister without being changed. We use them a lot in WP:TSP/Template:Mta Thanks // FrankB 18:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

First of all : the Commons:Graphic Lab/Maps is not yet working. It aim to set up some universal standards of legend to make maps on all wikimedian project, for :

• geologic maps ;
• topographic maps;
• geobiological maps (for animals)
• geopolitic maps (like those from CIA world fact book)
• exchanges maps (roads, train, planes lines, economic exchanges, etc.)
• historical maps

I sincerely think we need such universal legends and standard to make one more step toward professionalism. Wikimedia need to have all its maps with the same standard.

This is want the Commons:Graphic Lab/Maps aim to set up first, if possible before september 2007.

In Second, the Graphic Lab/Maps will open, and make maps and help to make maps according to those standards.

Third point : For other local maps project, feel free to do what you want. Here is not currently the Graphist team need to assist your. In the other hand, all your work -especially if done in SVG format- will be easely recycled into new standard maps.

To answer to your main question and according to what I know, is it none such project working to redraw historical maps of europe (on commons + en + fr). But you can help your team by showing them this : {{Europe}} (all the maps available on commons about european history). I think the first thing of all for you is to set up a clear and perfectly well think "Historical maps legend" (SVG; background showing topography; pastel color such brow = more historical). Please send me some feedback if the english team set up such work.

I hope this help you to understand the current and future situation. Last thing, Thanks you for your advice about {{Cms}} ^,..,^y

Yug (talk) 19:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

• It was obvious you were bootstrapping the project. You might consider "Advertising" on some of those project pages I mentioned via that link for other people interested in map generation. If you want more direct links, just ask and I'll build a list of WP projects pages. (I'm into the USE and Categorization side, and yawn when people mention formats! <g> But I understand, PROPERLY set up SVG's are a good thing as the layers allow changes, etc. Thus far, my (known) personal experiences have been with their problems--when they aren't configured properly.) Unless I miss my guess, there is already at least one Map generation project in place somewhere... not sure which site, but I will be asking around and let you know if it shows up! <g> (At my age, you start to worry about things like memory and sexual ability! <bseg>) In any event, nothing will be happening fast, as that's a big project we've outlined, but collaboration amongst all projects should be encouraged, don't you think? Cheers and good luck! // FrankB 19:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

re: Template:Maps of the history of Europe ... I thought I'd stolen that at one point already! Astrokey44 does some good work! OTOH, David Kernow has a bad habit of renaming things, will have to check it out since the {{WikiPtmp}} is commented out. Perhaps I never got back to steal it! <g>

In any event, the 'List of territories' page would have to zoom in much closer to be useful vice many of those, and would of course be modeled on the current article page as close as is possible. In case you missed it, the purpose of our page would be as a cross-reference and index to such place names, and the maps are a secondary goal. TTFN // FrankB 20:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again... but "I'm not exactly 'looking' for anything", we are but discussing and contemplating doing something. If there were a project here doing something similar, then we could join that. Your English is not so bad. Good luck! // FrankB 20:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Wappen Bad Rappenau.png

Hello Yug,

you deleted this image as "superseded" [5]. I do not know if you have noticed, but deleting "superseded" images has been suspended; so it says in the superseded tag. This is being discussed here. So please restore this image. I am principally against deleting these "superseded" images, as they are the source after which the SVG versions were made, and should be kept as a reference. You can find more arguments against deletion at the discussion I pointed you too.

One more thing: I discovered that this image was missing by chance. You seem to have deleted it without any warning or procedure. You also did not replace the image where it is used, leaving a hole in 5 articles in different wikipedias. This is not very professional, and more than that, it is outright unfriendly. Please don't do so again, as it is a sure way to make people angry at you. Regards --Rosenzweig 17:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello Yug,

I see you have restored the image. Thank you. Regards --Rosenzweig 15:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I replied late

I replied to your question on Commons talk:CJK stroke order project/ja.--Widehawk(Takahiro05274) 05:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Hi Yug, thank you for the link regarding chinese characters--I've actually uploaded quite a bit of Chinese character material, so I anticipate it being useful. Also, I wanted to thank you for giving me a proper welcome! I feel like I'm an official user now ;-) ɪkiɾɔɪd | talk 15:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Yug, thanks for the comment :)

--Militaryace 03:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

category tagging

hi yug, you tagged Image:Saitis.barbipes.female.frontal.jpg and several others with Category:Spider, without checking if this category is used (it is not). it is best practice to click on the category link at least once, to get a feeling if this is the right place for the picture. as a matter of fact, the picture should not be tagged with a category at all, because it resides in the gallery page Saitis barbipes, and this page is tagged correctly (as Category:Salticidae). if you have any questions, leave me a note. cheers :) --Sarefo 00:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

hi again, glad to hear that you like the pictures, more salticid pictures are on their way :)

the reason why single pictures should not be tagged with a category are that if you do this, the category will be clogged with hundreds of pictures. instead, put it in a gallery page, mark this page with Category:Salticidae, and only this page will appear in the right place, not the 20 pictures of the species. if you have 300 pictures of salticidae, they will appear as a big mess in the category, because naming of pictures tends to be rather chaotic. if you only tag the gallery page, it's much much easier to navigate. cheers :) --Sarefo 20:02, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Commons 2.0-logo.svg

since the commons logo is not free it would really be better if you didn't use it in userboxes. Perhaps uses a derivative of commons-tan instead.Geni 01:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

User: Chanueting 2

There are some question above that were not solved:

The case of missing style. (i.e. 囗-oracle is missing, but 因-oracle is available)

I would like to ask you want we have to do on Image:气-bigseal.svg, do we need to delete the 米 part from the image? Chanueting 11:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
okay, how about the above question? Chanueting 12:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Micheletb found a pretty solution for 囗. He use the 因, and « mid-hide » the part 大 by coloring it in grey. See category:囗 --Yug (talk) 20:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

This issue is still open to discussion, but I don't encourage to work in this way.

I think we can't keep like this, totaly black, because it's a false information : we show 氣-bigseal.svg here.

But, if a radical/character doesn't exist in oracle style, have we to provide such confusing black-grey  ? Have we to extract 囗-oracle, from 因-oracle ?

We have to decide what do we do with radicals and character which don't exist in seal script, or in an other script, but which are available inside other a character. And we have to explain this choice clearly.

• 
  Image name 囗-oracle.svg. The 大 is "hide" in grey.
• 
  What solution for such case, 气-bigseal is only available inside 氣-bigseal.

Actually, Image:广-bronze.svg is one of this case, I put this in the other notes: "Also the original word is 庫.". Also, I think Micheletb's one is the best solution. But the main problem is that we HAVE to rebuild the template if we choose this as it is impossible for the user to know the source when we use the current template. Chanueting 05:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Resizing to 270 px.

and how to resize to fit the 270*270? It is hard to use mouse to resize like this. Chanueting 13:00, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

^-^, it's really more easy. In Inkscape, select all the character with the main tool. Then, look on the top of your Inkscape window, the size of your object is show (see on this red circle). Change it to 270px by taping "270.00". Note that it is need to lock the 锁 ().

Where is this "lock"? Chanueting 05:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, do we need to resize them all? Chanueting 14:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

No, I think it's better, but « not absolutly need, but welcome ». It's just to have the characters in a visible size, and not touching the borders.

交 should be move to 文

You have uploaded a wrong file Image:交-bronze.svg? It seems that it is the word 文.

oops, it seems that you upload a series of wrong file called 交-****.svg. Please delete them and upload the with the correct name, Thanks. Chanueting 13:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

O.ô !!! Ok, I will look for this... (oups !)

This isssue is now corrected.

??? un-understood topic (Note tha "H" = 横 and "S" means 竖 )

And I think you should have a look to Image:月-seal.svg before editing the Image:夕-seal.svg, I think it is what you call "H" 横 and "S" 竖 in the CJK project rather that a curve. I think we should use a better word, which have no artistically stroke to replace the word Image:士-bigseal.svg, Image:口-bigseal.svg and Image:王-bigseal.svg Chanueting 13:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I will see for this.

• 
  what want you for this ? make it "bigger", it's planned (but my own current computer is too slow and crash if I open Inkscape)
• 
• 
• 
• 

For 夕-seal.svg. I would like to state that it is better for us to use the early version, as it is not a curly stroke inside. It is hard to show you in words. Let's see:

---

Potrace

Besides them, I would like to know how potrace works, I can hardly use it as I cannot choose the directories... Chanueting 15:49, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't be worry about potrace : my brother and me are making some tests, we still have somme troubles, but we will do our best ;]. Richard SEARS have share is data with us, and we want convert all his 100.000 file. When it will be done, Richard SEARS plan to use the new .svg files on internationalscientific.org. Then, I hope the work will be really more convenient. [But sadly, we still have some troubles with potrace...]

--Yug (talk) 20:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

About Hanzi2.gif

• Sorry that your image is not very suitable, because there's not historical linear development form traditional chinese to simplified chinese, also some style of t.c. and s.c.will be the same. So adding the s.c. into the traditional queue will make confused. Besides, you can find me on [my user page of chinese wikipedia http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Syaoran], since I do not check this page very often^^ (P.S. Sorry for my bad english^^) --Syaoran 08:37, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
• Hello, Yug, I've answered the question about the character U+2EBC on my zh.wiki talk page^^~--Syaoran 20:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Hispanophone map

I know you didn't want to know more about this issue xD

But check this please: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-Hispanophone_World.PNG

An user created a copy of the map we made, and named it with the same name. He has made few changes to the map, which I don't disagree with, but he has also named it with ".PNG" instead of ".png". You can find it here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-Hispanophone_World.png

In addition, he added all the sources and the stuff from the old map, including my licence with my name, when I did not even know about the existence of this new map he created. I think that he wanted to improve the map, uploading a new version, but when he did that, he named it ".PNG" instead of ".png", and thus instead of replacing the old map, he created a new one.

In all, I think that the .PNG map should redirect to the .png one, which is the original map we created... could you make this please? Because otherwise if someone in any wikipedia writes it with .png he will have a map, but if he writes it with .PNG he will have another. And the .png is the good one.

This, in addition to the fact that I guess it is "illegal" that he adds my licence and stuff when I did not create that new map...

Thanks. Onofre Bouvila 08:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, you ask to merge 2 images. This is "easy"to do : I we reupload the PNG map with the name ".png".

I will not ask him, because that will be too slow, and not efficient. All my apologies for this quick action. Yug (talk) 14:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Credit for GNU

Hi Yug, I'm interested in using a map you created (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:France_colonial_Empire10.png) for an external web project, and am not quite sure how to credit you for the work. Can you advise? --Rachely 17:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

FP Promotion

★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★ The image Image:Mamiya 645 Super system.svg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/Image:Mamiya 645 Super system.svg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so.

--Simonizer 09:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of penis images

Please do not speedy delete high quality penis images, especially if they are used in other Wikimedia projects. I have undeleted Image:Penis testicles.jpg after an undeletion request. -- Bryan (talk to me) 12:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Francophonia

Hey!

I don't understand why did you make this post in my talk page. Why do you tell me that? Onofre Bouvila 15:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

---

I'm not sure why Albania is in the Organization of the Francophonie, but I guess they have an "observer" paper or something like that. On the contrary, Morocco has a strong tradition with French language. In fact, there are newspapers in French there, and many people speaks it. It is the colonial language, which is very logical because most part of Morocco was French territory. So there is a historical reason for that.

The same with Spain-Sahara. Therefore, W.Sahara has been put in the "Spanish-influenced areas". And, though at a lower level, the same for Spain-Morocco.

Anyway what do you suggest with this? That W.Sahara was removed from the Hispanophone map or...? Onofre Bouvila 22:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

{{ACClicense}}

Hello Yug, you are the main editor of this template. It seem this template is creating uncategorized categories if it is used. If you look at Special:Wantedcategories you will find a lot of categories named ? with diferent chinese characters. Could you please check this categories and edit the template to put images not in unexcisting categories? ? is no approriate category name and without knowledge about chinese characters it is impossible to put the images manual in the right category. Thank you. Examples of uncategorized categories that use the template:

• Category:乙
• Category:口
• Category:日
• Category:子
• Category:气
• Category:雨

--GeorgHH 16:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I will hide this function. I still don't clearly know if this will be usefull or not. --Yug (talk) 22:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it is a problem. In fact, it can be used to group the image of the word no matter in ACC or Chinese stroke project. However, we do have a lot of problem yet. I hope Yug can come back soon and we shall discuss it later. Chanueting 14:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion of this Project Moving

Please look at Category talk:CJK stroke order#Should move to Wiktionary !? --SantaClaus 13:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Never mind; (you don't have to go to have a look) it's cliear now. I just wondered if it should be done somehow if it is not appropriate for this Commons project. --SantaClaus 10:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

ACC: tons of works to do

Due to my public examination next year, I am going to have a wikibreak until to May (or April). Before the break, I would like to combine the ACC and SOP project. First of all, I think we should have a group discussion, together with ACC and SOP, with IRC or other protocol. Besides, in the ACC project, can you answer the question above? Thanks. I am not free now, I think I would state out more problems later. Chanueting 02:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I think we should use my version of Image:丶-seal.svg. From my point of view, people write word in 毛筆 at that time, it is impossible to write a word with zigzag pattern on the left. Even if the word in internationalscientific.org have this pattern, I think it is due to the tools of the ancients or the scanning problem (the pixel loss). Or, you have some reference that talking about this? Chanueting 04:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

PNG

Hey Yug, I noticed you uploaded your Image:8 strokes of 永.png as a png, it is slated for vectorization, do you think you could upload the svg version? (I assume it exists because you used inkscape)--Cronholm¹⁴⁴ 02:03, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I had one, but someone in France robbed my USB key, and I don't know yet if I have a SVG copy. If I found it, I will upload it. Otherwise, you are free to vectorized it. --Yug (talk) 18:17, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The Spanish language map needs to be changed

At the moment there are parts of the map that are shaded that shouldn't be. The following link states that the majority of the population of Paraguay speaks Guarani. Spanish is mostly spoken in the capital. Let me know if this source is reliable enough. If it is then Paraguay should be a different colour.

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=PY

I like the way the French and German language pages have done it. Please, feel free to have a look

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map_German_SpeakingWorld.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-Francophone_World.png

I think that the maps show that German and French are spoken all over the world without having to colour in entire countries. I also like the fact that Quebec is a different color from the rest of Canada as it shows the special status of the region within Canada. What's your opinion? Maybe we could just have two squares indicating where the two Spanish cities are in Morrocco instead of colouring the entire country. Also Spanish is not spoken in Brazil. Please change it if you agree with me. Thanks.

Himba

Hi. I've just uploaded all pictures that I deemed of reasonable quality. The standing ladies I've got are in the shade. Himba don't seem to like direct sunlight :-). I you want I can upload a standing (shaded) lady. Lycaon 20:33, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, Je vais essayer. Lycaon 20:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

La voilá: Image:Himba pregnant third wife.jpg. By the way I lived in Zambia for three years, and travel every year with wife and daughter. We want to see as much of the world as possible ;-) Lycaon 21:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

User:Yug/Stroke order

Please have a look at the discussion I opened on your license tag: Commons talk:Licensing#User:Yug/Stroke order --ALE! ¿…?

Template talk:SOlicense

Sure, I'm willing to help. Please give me some examples what has to be done, else than the license substitution. A diff of an example edit would be handy. -- Bryan (talk to me) 18:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Have been quite busy, will probably do the stuff next weekend. -- Bryan (talk to me) 19:31, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I heve to manage this : Special:Whatlinkshere/User:Yug/Stroke_order, with this {{SOlicense|*||red.png|}}. Yug (talk) 05:18, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

User:M4RC0/bw

Can you explain, why have you changed license of files you are not author of, by modyfying User:M4RC0/bw? Are you aware that you have created large problems with merging these images with other works? Previously these images were PD and now they are CC BY-SA - which is completely incompatibile with GFDL. This results in inability to take a screenshot of a page where these images are used - because text is in GFDL, images are CC BY-SA and these two licenses cannot be mixed. That's why users are encouraged to double-license their works. --Derbeth ^talk 23:59, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Marco have leave commons and keep contact with me by email. Since I was the leader of the stroke order project, he gave me email authorization to act in the best interest of the CJK Stroke order project, on which we worked together since 2004-2005.

So, I have tryed first to unified the license of M4RC0, Wikic, and myself into what I think the most fair toward their good work : the CC-BY-SA license, which simply request to name at least their pseudo. I take totally the responsability of these changes.

Then, in a second step, I was planned to merge the 3 template licenses into one "project unified license", see the template:SOlicense.

Now that I'm currently leaving commons and wikimedia, some major change had appear :

• the 3 licenses will be botly replace, allowing me to leave the place (CJK SO project) CLEAN.
• the SOlicense will probably be switch back to a PD or GFDL license.

Feel free to contact wikic and M4RC0 to ask confirmation.

Yug 05:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

There is a problem contacting M4RC0, because he hasn't left contact e-mail on Commons. --Derbeth ^talk 09:37, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

After an email contact by Derbeth, M4RC0 answered : "Put everything in GPL or Public Domain if there is a problem. it's ok for me .. thank for you mail. --M4RC0 15:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: An Idea...

Hey Yug :)

Making it happen via the preferences would mean getting an extension accepted and enabled, which is long and slow. I suggest writing on the mailing list to try and get a JavaScript guru to code something up, so that whenever you visit the upload form your favourite template is already chosen or written in the form. That would not be that hard, I think. pfctdayelise (说什么?) 09:33, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Great. Yug 12:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Yug,

If you intend to communicate ideas "to the community", you should use the Village Pump rather than my talk page. If you use my talk page I can only assume you want me to act on the idea. I am too busy to act on every idea everyone suggests to me, so I suggested to you how you could act on it. If you don't want to then fine. But I am not just a "do everything for everyone" person. pfctdayelise (说什么?) 02:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

That's OK. A small mis-communication. :) --pfctdayelise (说什么?) 09:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Image:Zhong-red.xcf

Own work. Agree deletion. Deletion done. Yug 13:13, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Sinogrammes

• Ca ne fait rien, vous êtes tout excuses, a l'impossible nul n'est tenu, et c'est bénévole en plus. A+ cordialement--WikiMeGa**** @@@-fr Accueil fr:Accueil 08:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Re : Commons:Meet our illustrators

Merci !

D'autre part, j'espère qu'on te verra encore longtemps et souvent dans les parages ;) Sting 23:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

To do

1. Avec Sting : 13/14 couleurs positives pour 0 a 100 m ; 0 a 1000m ; 0 a 10.000m ;et 0 a 50m, 0 a 500m et 0 a 5.000m.
2. Faire un template pour comme :

Color	Hex	RGB	Sample	Used for
Black	#000000	0, 0, 0		For names
"Dark blue"	#000088	0, 0, 0		For the main subject
"blue"	#0000ff	0, 0, 0		for vassals

{{Mapguideline1}} {{Mapguideline2}} {{mapguideline2|color=""|hex=|rgb=|use=}} |}

Hello {{{Name}}}, I lauched the Project_Mapmaking_Wiki_Standards in June 2007, and I now see that we talk lot but are to slow to decide. The full task being really heavy, I have look for a map maker leader for each kind of map. For what I know, you are the more able to lead the {{{issue}}}, that's why I come to ask your REALLY NEED contribution. I come to ask you to develop and propose within 15 days a 1/ Nice and 2/ Convenient to follow guideline for {{{issue}}}. You can start when you want : now, in one month. But when you start to really think about this issue, then, you have to think all the possible aspects in 15 days, perfectly (list of icones need ? colors need to be serious ?), and make the best proposal prossible the 3rd week.

This proposal should be prepare in :

• user:YourSpeudo/Map_guideline, and add it to your watchlist.
• use the tools "{{Mapguideline1}} ; {{Mapguideline2}} |}" to make your tables.
• Showing one map-example of your proposed guidline.
• (Explain all your choices as much as possible.)

1. user:??? => overview the project.
2. user:??? => lead the "{{Legend|}} guideline"
3. User:Sting => Lead the Topographic maps issue.
4. User:Reuvenk => Lead the Gradiant maps issue.
5. User:MapMaster => Lead the Historical maps issue (except for colors)

Standards cartographiques sur Commons

Salut Yug.

Pour les cartes topos, tu sais déjà que j'ai établi 13 couleurs différentes pour les altitudes positives. Ce nombre n'est pas par pur hasard mais vient du fait que j'ai commencé ce type de carte avec le soft 3DEM qui utilise 14 gradients. Pourquoi 1 en moins ? Pour avoir la souplesse de spécifier des intervalles qui tombent ronds puisque 3DEM ne permet pas de spécifier une altitude pour chaque tranche mais découpe l'intervalle d'altitudes entre le mini et le max en tranches égales. D'autre part, je me suis rendu compte que plus de 10 gradients pour une carte topo vectorisée sont très souvent inutiles et rendent la carte relativement illisible car les limites des tranches deviennent très proches l'une de l'autre et on a du mal à distinguer la séparation des niveaux. D'après mon expérience, avoir 7 à 9 niveaux est optimum, mais ce n'est bien sûr pas rigide, il faut adapter leur nombre ainsi que leur intervalle à chaque région concernée.

Concernant une standardisation générale au niveau de Commons, oui, ça va être difficile car chacun va certainement vouloir camper sur ses positions et faire prévaloir ses propres réalisations. Je pense cependant que ça va se mettre en place à terme lorsque des propositions vraiment satisfaisantes verront le jour (il faut avouer que pour l'instant c'est pas terrible). Il faudra que chacun soit prêt à faire des compromis et être suffisamment humble afin de voir où se situe l'intérêt du projet qualitativement parlant et accepter de modifier ses propres standards habituels pour les voir améliorés. J'envisage d'ailleurs à cet effet de lancer prochainement au sein de l'AG-fr une discussion en vue d'une évolution de nos standards colorimétriques actuels pour la présenter sur Commons après cela. Je n'y ai pas encore trop réfléchi, mais je pense à quelque chose entre nos standards actuels et ceux de WP-en, donc des couleurs plus soutenues que les nôtres mais moins violentes que les leurs. Je prévois de faire ceci en même temps que de plancher sur les couleurs thématiques (gradients, positives, négatives, historiques, etc.) et compléter la partie pour les légendes (routes, etc.), l'ensemble avec exemples à l'appui afin de s'en faire une idée claire.

Bref encore beaucoup, beaucoup de boulot en perspective et qui nécessitera l'engagement de personnes ici si on veut arriver à aboutir à quelque chose sur Commons. Mais avant cela, je veux d'abord terminer les cartes qu'on n'arrête pas de me demander (je n'ai même pas le temps de faire celles que je voudrai pour mes propres articles… que je n'ai d'ailleurs plus le temps d'écrire !) et corriger / achever les didacticiels cartographiques. Chaque chose en son temps.

De ton côté, ne te mets donc pas martel en tête car il est plus que probable que tu laisseras des choses en plan. Ne cherche pas à tout résoudre ou tu n'arriveras jamais à décrocher. C'est aussi une bonne nouvelle de savoir que tu envisages de revenir quand tu auras plus de temps disponible. À bientôt. Sting 16:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Cartographie, encore...

Salut Yug.
Non, je ne fais pas de bitmap des fonds topographiques chargés sur Commons, je laisse le tout en svg car c'est ce qui donne le meilleur rapport poids/qualité/souplesse pour les éventuelles réutilisations ultérieures. Le jpg abîme de trop le fichier et le png est trop lourd. Evidemment, il faut de temps à autre surveiller les historiques de téléchargement puisque ça n'apparaît pas dans les listes de suivi, mais je n'ai pas encore vu ce cas jusqu'à présent.
Reprendre les couleurs d'une carte svg, topo vectorisée ou géographique classique ne prends pas tellement de temps, je ne suis donc pas très inquiet de ce côté-là. D'autre part, il n'y a à ma connaissance guère que Captain Blood qui ait créé des cartes topos en suivant un même schéma (c'est grâce à lui que je suis devenu accro !), mais je vois qu'il n'a plus rien uploadé depuis un an maintenant. Dommage. Son standard n'était vraiment pas bon, joli mais pas pratique du tout car trop sombre. Au final, je crois qu'il n'y a que moi à travers l'ensemble du projet qui fasse régulièrement des cartes topos et bathymétriques (tiens ! J'y avais pas encore fait attention !) (sauf Sémhur qui commence aussi et fait du très bon boulot, mais il suit le standard que j'ai établi), les autres ne faisant que reprendre d'autres sources (Demis en général) sans autre modif ou éventuellement ce que crachent d'aitres softs avec les réglages standards. Ça devrait donc me donner une position avantageuse pour faciliter l'établissement d'un standard colorimétrique à ce niveau. Je n'ai malheureusement eu aucune discussion à ce sujet pour avoir un avis extérieur, mais je pense que les couleurs que j'ai pensées sont correctes pour notre utilisation encyclopédique. J'envisage d'y effectuer quelques ajustements mineurs, peut-être d'y ajouter des couleurs pour les zones des neiges éternelles au cas où mais c'est tout. Tout ceci pour dire que je ne pense pas que ce standard actuel en vigueur sur WP-fr soit rejeté sur Commons, et je ne vais pas lancer de discussions sans fin pour chercher à un établir un autre alors que celui-ci me convient.
Créer un AG spécial topo serait à mon avis une erreur : perso, quand je crée une carte topo je fais très souvent aussi une version géo plane (pour ceux qui n'auraient pas compris que c'est facile de l'obtenir depuis la première…), parfois aussi une bitmap du relief à couleurs dégradées pour disponibiliser pratiquement tout ce qui peut être fait dans ce domaine. Créer des ateliers séparés risquerait de disperser les demandes et donc les énergies avec deux demandes de cartes d'une même région réalisées par deux personnes différentes. À l'heure actuelle je n'en vois donc pas la nécessité. D'autre part, autant que les autres Wiki-cartographes voient ce genre de réalisation sur la page principale, ça leur donnera peut-être aussi l'envie de s'y lancer.
Pour conclure, je pense que pour établir des standards cartographiques, à défaut d'une participation suffisamment active des acteurs (ceux qui les réalisent et les cartographes professionnels) et après un certain temps de discussion pour recueillir les avis et de nouvelles idées il faut savoir être un peu dictatorial et proposer de facto un standard, pratiquement en l'imposant (je me rends compte que c'est un peu ce que j'ai fait sur WP-fr) – même si ce n'est pas officialisé – afin d'aboutir à quelque chose de concret, sinon ça n'en finira jamais (c'est l'un des défauts du système Wiki). Ceci n'est bien sûr viable qu'avec une proposition qui se tienne, mûrement réfléchie et qui s'adapte à la majorité des cas rencontrés.
À plus. Sting 23:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

A response

Yug, I was surprised to hear from you. I thought you had left Wikipedia. I responded to your thoughtful comments on Talk page. Thanks, MapMaster 04:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)