Category talk:New Orleans Tram stops
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
- Oppose We shouldn't "regionalize" category names where the subject is something used worldwide. Just because the locals call them streetcars (as they do in lots of other places where Commons nonetheless uses tram category names), doesn't mean that they are not trams. It makes it more difficult for categorization work to be accomplished unless one is familiar with the favoured nomenclature for each geographic area. Category universality is an important principle, and while there are sometimes good reasons to deviate from it, this doesn't seem like one of them. The parent category should also be fixed.
I agree, however, with the change to the word order - it should be Category:Tram stops in New Orleans. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 12:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
- While I don't feel particularly strongly about "tram" v/s "streetcar" myself, there was opposition to using a term foreign to local usage on en:W, and the category here was made to match there. This category needs to be renamed anyways (with the improper capitalization of "Tram"), so I think it best to rename to match language in the parent cat "Streetcars in New Orleans". I like worldwide consistency in principle, but Commons already gives leeway to regional usage where there is significant and longstanding differing terminology (eg, "petrol stations" in the UK and "gas stations" in the USA). Note that such location based categories are most likely to have new media added by people who use the terminology of that region. -- Infrogmation (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
- Categories on Wikipedia serve a completely different purpose, so comparisons with Wikipedia are usually a case of apples and oranges. This category does need to be renamed, but it should be done to be consistent with the vast majority of the rest of the category tree, not with the anomaly. And for every one guideline and principle on Commons, as you know we can point to examples where the rules, rightly or wrongly, have not been followed; personally, I can't say that I usually find it a compelling rationale to further differ from our principles. And if we stick to universal terms, then we don't make familiarity with local usage a prerequisite to good categorization, as it is people worldwide who frankly do a lot categorization around here for all areas. Transport vehicles, in particular, seem to draw a lot of interest from contributors worldwide (I least I find that with transport-related media related to Canada. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:57, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
- While I don't feel particularly strongly about "tram" v/s "streetcar" myself, there was opposition to using a term foreign to local usage on en:W, and the category here was made to match there. This category needs to be renamed anyways (with the improper capitalization of "Tram"), so I think it best to rename to match language in the parent cat "Streetcars in New Orleans". I like worldwide consistency in principle, but Commons already gives leeway to regional usage where there is significant and longstanding differing terminology (eg, "petrol stations" in the UK and "gas stations" in the USA). Note that such location based categories are most likely to have new media added by people who use the terminology of that region. -- Infrogmation (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
- Can we please at least move this category to something less bad than "New Orleans Tram stops", which has dubious word order and a clearly incorrect capitalization in addition to whatever language usage issues? As a local I still think "Streetcar stops in New Orleans" is the best option, but I could tolerate "Tram stops in New Orleans". Would "Tram stops in New Orleans" be intolerable to anyone? -- Infrogmation (talk) 19:34, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
- It seems correct to stay with the consistent 'streetcars' theme. The Wikipedia page is 'Streetcars in New Orleans', these cats have been so named for years, and other North American cities tram networks are also referred to as streetcars. While I'm an Australian who uses tram, and has preference for that, there are many many regional variances, and along the same lines as WP:ENGVAR it seems to make common sense to have all child categories use 'streetcars'. I support 'Streetcar stops in New Orleans'. I would also add that as an international contributor I have no problem what so ever using regional terms, in fact if one doesn't know that a tram in much of North America can also be called a streetcar or trolley I question why you are working in that field. Liamdavies (talk) 16:24, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
- The correct "theme" is to refer to trams. I have explained above the problems with Liamdavies' suggestions, namely that they ignore the need on Commons for universality. This is not Wikipedia, where they have a completely different set of concerns and needs. I have no issue with "Tram stops in New Orleans", with "Streetcar stops in New Orleans" as a redirect and used in the category description. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 16:09, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
- If you'd read my comment you would actually see that I don't have a suggestion, I agreed with someone else. What do you suggest be done with all the other cats that use streetcars? If you suggest they be renamed, off you go, as it stands 'New Orleans Tram stops' is an orphan and should be renamed, the sensible name given all other cats about New Orleans trams/streetcars is 'Streetcar stops in New Orleans'. Liamdavies (talk) 17:46, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
- Also, Skeezix1000, where is the naming policy (not guideline, but policy) that states that "the need on Commons for universality" regarding category names across the same concept but different, distinct entities? Liamdavies (talk) 17:48, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
- If you'd read my comment you would actually see that I don't have a suggestion, I agreed with someone else. What do you suggest be done with all the other cats that use streetcars? If you suggest they be renamed, off you go, as it stands 'New Orleans Tram stops' is an orphan and should be renamed, the sensible name given all other cats about New Orleans trams/streetcars is 'Streetcar stops in New Orleans'. Liamdavies (talk) 17:46, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
- The correct "theme" is to refer to trams. I have explained above the problems with Liamdavies' suggestions, namely that they ignore the need on Commons for universality. This is not Wikipedia, where they have a completely different set of concerns and needs. I have no issue with "Tram stops in New Orleans", with "Streetcar stops in New Orleans" as a redirect and used in the category description. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 16:09, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
- You provided a rationale for your opinion. If you weren't making a suggestion or expressing an opinion, then there is no need to respond to your comment. In any event, I don't respond to obnoxious comments like "If you'd read my comment" or "off you go". --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:09, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- I apologise, but this place gives me right irrits quite often. I fail to see where it says that naming should be consistent, or really any guidelines or policies (or documents at all really) that spell out how categorisation should occur. And yet on one hand we have this situation where a category is given a name other than the rest in it's nest, due to, for lack of a better term, standing orders. While on the other no one bats an eye lid, or does anything at all to help solve the ridiculous mess at Commons:Categories for discussion/2013/03/Category:Trams in Prague, where yet again nothing was provided, other than: that's the way we do it. It would be really nice if instead of being told that that's that, someone could at any point link to documentation that explains, why or how something happens in that manner. Yet again, I apologise for being short, but this in so incredibly frustrating, and I would appreciate links to documentation about standing traditions. Liamdavies (talk) 18:08, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- Hi, I responded on my talk page where I first saw this note. Thanks. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:38, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Category moved to "Tram stops in New Orleans"; this name and "Streetcar stops in New Orleans" made into category redirects. -- Infrogmation (talk) 13:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC)