Category talk:Shinto shrines

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Further categorization & naming policy[edit]

I think some issues need to be adressed:

  • What kind of subcategories that aren't categories for individual shrines but containt the latter would be sensible? Currently, two systems emerge: By geographic location (i.e. Category:Shrines in Kobe) or type (i.e. Category:Toshogu). I think this should be clarified before further steps are taken.
  • The names of categories herein are totally unstructured. Sometimes, name typology (e.g. "-jinja", "-jingu", "-taisha", "-gu") gets substituted by "Shrine" or "shrine", sometimes it's handled as a suffix ("Name-jingu"), sometimes as an autonomous part of the name ("Name Jingu"). Sometimes, name parts are connected by hyphens, sometimes by spaces, sometimes neither (as in "TsurugaokaHachimangu"). And even parts like "-taisha" aren't consistent (as in "Kasuga Taisya"). We need to at least decide on a transcription system (like Hepburn, for instance). --Melanom 08:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I made most subcategory under shinto shirines last summer. First, it was mess of photos. I categorized them and add isolated shirine pictures without any category. To categorize them was difficult work. Some shirine is very simmilar name in Japanese, and more similar spelling when expressed in alphabet. That is why I added brief explanation in category. The most confusing is that some shirine is in tne area of temple, next the temple. Temple is for buddizm and shirine is for shinto, they are entirely diffrent, but should I categorize those shirines to temple? I put priority to categorize them and decided to think it later. That is why I didn't care about naming rule. If you had good idea, please propose. I would fix them. Haragayato 09:48, 13 May 2006(UTC)
      • First of all: Sorry for the late answer. Second: Thank you for your hard work so far. It is appreciated. Now, we need to set out formalizing things. I propose settling on a professional transcription system from Japanese letters into Romaji. The one I am most familiar with is the Hepburn romanization. I understand it is not the most popular in Japan, but certainly with English speaking people, and as romanization would be done for English speaking people anyway, I think it would be a good solution. But I am hesitating to actually put this into practice, as I am not sure whether there are already any other naming policies in order that would be contradicted by that. Maybe I will ask in the Village pump later. --Melanom 14:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
        • I think XX-shrine is to be avoided, for convenience of searching and naming uniqueness. It is better to use transcription from original pronunciation. And we already know all subcategory here is shrine located somewhere. Haragayato 20:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Whatever you come up with in the end, I strongly recommend translating it into japanese for the japanese-only contributors. Even then we might still have the problem that most Japanese and non-japanese are not familiar with Hepburn and other systems (and not in the mood to study it before naming their category). The problem of same name in different locations could be adressed with ", place" similar to villages or wards, e.g. Kitano-tenmangu, Kyoto.
    Furthermore the problem is not as stated in the first comment: Every building can be categorized by name and by location (Toshogu is not the type but the name). Buildings with more than just one or two pictures should have their "own" category by name, all others (just one photo) should be categorized by location. Additionally all "named" categories are further subcategories of the location categories. Question is if the is a category by alphabet with all temples/shrines for those who only know the name but not the location... Geofrog 08:59, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I beg to differ: "Toshogu" is a type of shinto shrine. Names of shinto shrines usually signify either or both: type (i.e. who is the main Kami or type of Kami (as in the -jingu (神宮)) or size/importance (as in -taisha (大社)) and location (e.g. Nikko Tosho-gu signifies not only type but also location, i.e. Nikko).
Also, we don't really have any number of shinto shrines who share the same name in Commons as of yet. The problem(s) you mentioned regarding this is secondary. More important is settling on a transscription system, for uniformity and clarity sake (people who don't know how to transcribe will have to be ignored or corrected). Headwords in original Japanese can either be made as redirects to the transcribed headwords or they could be made the main headwords. --Melanom 11:19, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Ok, I apologize. I was a bit fast there. Had no clue, there were even shrines dedicated to certain people. But even so, why not categorize by location and by something else if needed? (although I doubt that a categorization by type helps a lot...). Two reasons why I made that comment: First, it is really no fun to clean up categories that were named badly. So yes, of course they can be corrected but my point is, that everybody should be aware that there is a naming scheme before naming his new category. That's why I suggested that the rules should be made available in japanese as well. Secondly, a categorization by location makes a lot of sense and is unavoidable if you don't want all the shrines and temples in the main category of a city. That's how Category:Temples in Kobe came about.
    My suggestion for naming is: original japanese naming in romaji, Hepburn system, no english, for consistency no hyphen or all hyphen. Geofrog 09:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I agree with your suggestion. Haragayato 14:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Consensus thus implemented. Thank you for your contributions. --Melanom 17:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Hm, somehow this isn't working out. Still a lot of new categories that don't follow any particular system. Does anyone have any ideas of how to improve upon the current situation? --Melanom 07:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I think there are too many bad examples already. I would try to fix later, when I might have time to do it... but would you kindly tell me how to ask deleting empty category? Haragayato 13:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
    • {{badname|:Category:New category name}} should suffice, I think. The real problem though would be doing all the sorting of files and then also changing the links on all the different wikipedias. This seems like it would be a real pain to do, maybe it would be better to ask a bot to do this... --Melanom 09:35, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
      • If to make a bot is easy, it is good idea. And it is after most pictures are categorized. Haragayato 13:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
      • In our previous discussion, "for consistency no hyphen or all hyphen" is agreed, but I think many Japanese feel a little unnatural to all hyphen as written guideline. Could we change to no hyphen? Haragayato 13:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)