Category talk:Toll houses

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to navigation Jump to search
This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Tollbooths[edit]

There are modern highway toll booths (most in daughter Category:Toll plazas, but some also on the upper level). And there are also historical tax collectors buildings, some looking more like castles. Perhaps it needs splitting? or clear identification which is which? NVO (talk) 18:37, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

  • Split. User:G.dallorto (talk) 21:13, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
  • See also Category:Toll plazas. Create subcategories of toll houses by type (booths/houses, old/modern, bridge/road/area etc.) and choose a most suitable name for the umbrella category. --ŠJů (talk) 19:34, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Proposal to Split
Create new umbrella/parent category Category:Toll collection points with Category:Tollbooths, Category:Toll plazas, Category:Toll houses etc as equal-ranking sub-categories. Any thoughts? S a g a C i t y (talk) 07:50, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
A toll plaza is more general than "toll collection point": it includes infrastructure around the collection points (the booths). A toll house is not a toll collection point, it is a building near such a point where a toll collector lives/lived. --Auntof6 (talk) 04:32, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
NVO, ŠJů, Saga City, & Auntof6: Tollbooths, Toll houses and Toll plazas each have their own category now, and they all exist in Tolls. Is that good enough for everyone? Can we close this discussion? - Themightyquill (talk) 09:52, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
I think, a toll is primarily the tax, not the place where it is collected. Thus, Tollbooths, Toll houses and Toll plazas should have their specific umbrella category - or Tollbooths and Toll houses should be subcategories of Toll plazas. Btw., i would have problem to distinguish "booth" from "house" in some cases. --ŠJů (talk) 10:48, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
As ŠJů seems to be agreeing with my point, I support the above. Historically in the UK a tollhouse was where the toll-keeper lived. S a g a C i t y (talk) 12:11, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm OK with the way I see them now: houses, booths, and plazas separate and all at the same level. --Auntof6 (talk) 01:22, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Closing, consensus now is to keep all as separate subcategories of Tolls.--KTo288 (talk) 20:02, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Category:Toll gates[edit]

I dont know the difference between toll gates and Category:Toll plazas. I'm not sure if i should connect one of them to toll booth (Q1364150) either. Roy17 (talk) 22:31, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

See Commons:Categories for discussion/2011/08/Category:Tollbooths for more information. - Themightyquill (talk) 10:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
hmm, so now we have:
  1. Category:Tollbooths
  2. Category:Toll gates
  3. Category:Toll houses
  4. Category:Toll plazas
I've looked up their definitions in dictionaries and tried googling images. My conclusion is, tollbooth=tollgate, and toll plaza is a place where there is a line of tollbooths.
I propose to keep cat:toll houses as it is. Merge tollgates and tollbooths. Merge toll plazas up into tollgates.--Roy17 (talk) 10:57, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
I guess, in cases like File:20180406 zaventem094.jpg where there are gates but no booths, the image could go in Category:Toll plazas instead. - Themightyquill (talk) 05:01, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
A tollbooth is a shelter where a tolltaker stands to take tolls from people who pass by the booth. A toll gate is a barrier that comes down in front of a vehicle until a toll is paid; some are automated and there may or may not be an associated booth. A toll house is a building where a toll collector lives (not as common nowadays). A toll plaza is a place where there is a line of tollbooths and/or tollgates. So gates and booths are not the same, but they are often in the same location so if we don't like having them separate, maybe we can combine them rather than having separate categories (or one redirected to the other). --Auntof6 (talk) 07:23, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Symbol keep vote.svg Keep My initial take was that there had to be some way to group some of these, but looking into it, it soes seem that each of the four categories is a valid and distinct concept. While there is certainly a good bit of overlap, in that most images depict two or more of the four elements, they can be combined in different ways or depitcted in isolation, so in the end I think we should just keep the existing categories as they are. Each image can be categorized in any or all of them as appropriate. Merging any of them may cause more issues than it is worth. Josh (talk) 18:30, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
That makes sense to me. --Auntof6 (talk) 13:29, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
How about this? Make toll plazas the parent cat of tollgate and tollbooth. In general I refrain from separating them, but if anyone wants to, it's a booth when a kiosk is present, or a gate when no booth but only a overhanging structure is present.--Roy17 (talk) 13:00, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
I don't think that would work, because some toll gates (like this one) and some tollbooths (like this one) aren't part of a grouping. Toll plazas came about to accommodate motor vehicle traffic, but tolls were collected at booths and gates for centuries before that. --Auntof6 (talk) 13:29, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
We need a parent cat for all sorts of tollbooths gates etc. It's impractical to segregate these things by the presense of a booth or a human collector.
If that category is not toll plazas, then it's over-categorisation to cat an image by both tollbooth/gate and toll plaza. So in my first proposal, merge toll plazas up.
But honestly speaking, it's impractical to distinguish booth and gate at the first place, because some photos would be too blurred to find out which one it belongs to. Tollbooths are also gradually replaced by automated gates. So I said, merge tollbooth and gate because there's no distinction in real life. Try Gooling either one of them and you will still find all sorts.
Or, solve this simplest problem:
I imported these files. They should go into a cat 中国公路收费站 or 中国收费站, but which one to use? Tollbooths/Tollgates/Toll plazas in China? There should be only one cat. And its name should be the most general term. To settle down on that term is the purpose of this CfD.--Roy17 (talk) 13:53, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
@Roy17: Your three images can be put in Category:Toll plazas. They should not be in toll gates or toll booths because these more detailed items are not distinguishable in these example images. However, if booths or gates are prominently visible in an image, it should also be categorized in Category:Toll gates or Category:Tollbooths as appropriate. There is no over-categorization violation by having something listed in more than one of the four categories since they are parallel under Category:Tolls. Toll booths and gates are two seperate things, and even if there is a modern trend to merge the two or replace one with the other, that doesn't change the fact that we have media of toll booths with no gate and toll gates with no booth, so two seperate categories are warranted. Those images that depict both can be categorized in both. As for photos that are too blurred (such as your examples), if a subject is to blurry to be identified, we shouldn't be worrying about categorizing it by that subject, as folks who are looking for images of tollbooths or gates probably aren't looking for images of blurred-out tollbooths or gates. Simply cat your examples under toll plazas and call it good. However, there is no reason that images should be restricted to a single category. Josh (talk) 16:08, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
@Joshbaumgartner:
  1. A plaza is not a parallel term, because a plaza is by definition a line of tollbooths (or gates). It's a subset.
  2. When booths and gates are separated into two cats, there should be an umbrella term. It includes everything that is a place/structure designated for toll. I have said, the purpose of this CfD is to find that umbrella term. Then I could create the cats in China accordingly.
  3. There can be only one sitelink to a wikidata item toll booth (Q1364150), which should be the umbrella term. It's 收費站 in Chinese and 料金所 in Japanese. Nothing ambiguous about it. But apparently in English yall suggest three parallel terms.
  4. They are so categorised because they are tollbooths/gates, not because what you want users to find.
  5. My personal standpoint is, the current distinction is superfluous. Take User:Auntof6's aforementioned examples. Where is the gate in File:Nieuwe tol ingesteld bij Lemelerberg, Bestanddeelnr 903-9157.jpg? File:Kingston Road toll booth.jpg has a gate.--Roy17 (talk) 16:55, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
I found a term: toll stations.
My new proposal:
Toll stations
|-Tollbooths
|-Tollgates
...
Toll plazas redirect to Toll stations.
How about this?--Roy17 (talk) 17:02, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
@Roy17: That is fine. I do not see a particular need to gather these into a contrived category like that, but at the same time there is nothing particularly wrong with it. The media should still end up sorted the same amongst the original four categories. However, if the intent is to move all media which contain some combination of booth/plaza/gate/etc. up into this new parent, then I would disagree with that. Josh (talk) 17:08, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
The plaza cat cannot be used concurrently with the booth/gate cat, because it's implied by the definition of toll plaza.--Roy17 (talk) 17:20, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
I get that, my point was that toll plazas should remain in Category:Toll plazas, not moved up to this new Toll stations parent. Of course an image of a toll plaza at large does not need to also be categorized by each component of it, just as a picture of a car doesn't also have to be under tires. Josh (talk) 19:15, 12 July 2019 (UTC)