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Strainubot (talk · contribs)

Operator: Strainu (talk)

Bot's tasks for which permission is being sought: Make redirects from titles with correct Romanian diacritics to the currently used diacritics, as described here

Automatic or manually assisted: Automatic, supervised

Edit type (e.g. Continuous, daily, one time run): One time run + on demand (i.e. once for all the files, then if users at ro.wp report problems with some files)

Maximum edit rate (eg edits per minute): 6

Bot flag requested: (Y/N): Y

Programming language(s): Python - pywikipediabot module. The script is available here

Strainu (talk) 10:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


I have already run the same bot at ro.wp without any problems.Strainu (talk) 10:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Please make a test run. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:50, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Here it is. Some pages there are actually Turkish, not Romanian. Unfortunately, while technically incorrect, we also need to create redirects for these files if they are to be used in templates on ro.wp.--Strainu (talk) 19:55, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
But why do you need to care about file names? Is it because of JavaScript which fix symbols in Romanian Wikipedia? How about disabling conversion for file names? And I don't think it's good idea to add redirects for Turkish language unless original files names are incorrect (for Turkish character set). --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:09, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, we are disabling the conversion for file names, only we can't identify filenames 100% correctly when they are used without the namespace (for instance as parameters in some templates - see ro:Format:Cutie_canton). I could base the detection on the extension, but the template can be written any number of ways. Another reason for redirecting even turkish files is the s-cedilla letter simple does not exist on Romanian keyboards in Windows Vista and 7, so those titles could not be written by hand with a Romanian keyboard.--Strainu (talk) 16:18, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I was thinking: not all the Turkish letters are on the Romanian keyboard, which makes it unprobable for people to type such names. How about if I check if the title contains other non-ascii turkish letters (except s-cedilla) and skip those pages. Some files with turkish titles will remain in the list, but the probability that they will have problems will be bigger. And if some of the skipped files still have problems, the redirects could be done manually.--Strainu (talk) 16:30, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
There are plenty of characters we don't have on our keyboard (what do you do with file names in Chinese). I am not keen at all for a bot making all sorts of redirects "en masse" while the natural solution would be to change it at the base. Most redirects you created are even not signaled as in use (Global use). Note that redirects create all sorts of maintenance problems when renaming or deleting files. --Foroa (talk) 20:33, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
The main issue here is not the manual usage of files, but the problems we're having with the automatic replacement code at ro.wp, which I explained above.
I'm not sure what you mean by "change it at the base". At ro.wp we simply don't allow user to name files with s-cedilla and t-cedilla, but we can't do the same here and we can't ask everybody to use s-comma, as it is not supported by default in WinXP, which is still over 50% of the OS market. However, I am open to alternate solutions to this problem.--Strainu (talk) 21:09, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
If the version of the spelling this bot wants to use is the one that is correct, files should be renamed. If it's just a valid alternative, there is no need to rename the files, as the current version is correct. Contrary to titles for article at Wikipedia, there are generally no series of redirects for variants of spellings at Commons. Unless there is some consensus to start making such redirects, I don't this bot should be creating them.  Docu  at 02:23, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

(Indent reset) Does that mean that for each file that contains some forbidden characters, including greek, arab, chinese, Japanese, Indian, Armenian, ... , you need to make a redirect ? So a substantial part of the Commons files can currently not be used on the ro:wikipedia ? --Foroa (talk) 21:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I think such bot may be useful to suggest file renames (to correct Romanian names), for example on dedicated page which will then reviewed by humans. But I don't think that blind redirect creation or even adding {{rename}} is good idea in situation where languaga may be arbitrary. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

No, this means that only Romanian characters are the problem, since they are the only ones corrected automatically. Your solution about proposing the renaming of files is interesting. Is there a special page for that? I see all kinds of requests, but no specific page.--Strainu (talk) 09:07, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

The issue should really be solved where the problem is. If we can use the images, and every other project can use the images, there's no reason ro.wp can't either. They're just choosing not to, which they're allowed to do, that's their choice, but it shouldn't affect us. I strongly oppose creating file redirects for anything except for previous names (and few other rare exceptions). A lot of wikis (including Commons) have gadgets and scripts that offer better language support than what a user's operating system/browser has by default. I don't think making a bunch of redirects is the proper way to handle this... Anyway, about how many files are we talking about here? If it's not that many then renaming might be a good idea. BTW, can't you create the redirects locally or does that not work (I've never tried that)? Rocket000 (talk) 09:25, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Local redirects to commons files do not work. This is not only about using the files, it's about the correct way to spell them. We're probably talking of a few thousands files, which seems like a lot of renaming. But again, this could be a solution if there is a process in place for file renaming.--Strainu (talk) 20:31, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

New status? ++Lar: t/c 01:46, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

My opinion: Romanian Wikipedia should fix its own problem. Bot (without status) may create redirect only for Romanian file names, not blindly for all languages. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

 Not done per lack of consensus. –Juliancolton | Talk 11:48, 9 April 2011 (UTC)