Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Carnitas in Mexico.jpg

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File:Carnitas in Mexico.jpg, featured[edit]

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.Voting period ends on 17 Jun 2015 at 03:14:24 (UTC)
Visit the nomination page to add or modify image notes.

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  •  Comment Perhaps an untrained eye would not linger on anything, except maybe on the nose. But a Carnitas Connoisseur, would see, smell and taste the delicacies of liver, small intestine, sausage, stomach, tongue, ribs... Maybe it is too ethnic in these parts. ;) --Tomascastelazo (talk) 02:20, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How is it shocking only to vegetarians? There's a difference between piles of intestines and a nice, sliced, steak. Or a processed burger patty. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 05:47, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment points up another argument against featured status. I had thought those pieces might be bits of intestine (which in any event the consumption of which is scarcely limited to Mexico), but then they also look like bits of fat. Only when you told me this did I know for sure. If it were truly featurable, it would be obvious enough that it was intestines and I wouldn't have needed your explanation.

Also, I have had carnitas a few times, particularly as a burrito filling at Chipotle, and while for all I know it may have included intestine I do not recall seeing it look like that. Nor does the carnitas in the picture that was until recently the lead image in the enwiki article show anything that looks like an intestine the way the bits in this picture do. The article itself describes carnitas as primarily meat, saying nothing about other organs of the animal being included.

Now, I'm not denying that it might be made that way wherever in Mexico the picture was taken (Maybe I'll have a chance to find out in person at Wikimania next month ...). This is just to speculate that perhaps the filename needs to be more specific.

In any event your commentary did not reach my main objection, that the image is not striking enough to be featured. Daniel Case (talk) 04:25, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Ok... let´s take it one step at a time...
As for the requirement of obviousness needed in order to be featurable I disagree with you, because obviousness implies the capacity to distinguish a priori the elements presented. This can only happen when prior knowledge exists. That would mean that if there is an unkown element, then the image is then not featurable. However, that is a factor attributable to the observer, not the object observed. It is like saying that something does not exist because you don´t know the name of the thing. The fact that you do not distinguish between an intestine or a piece of fat is not the fault of the image or the subject itself, but the fault of lack of prior experience or knowledge. And here is precisely one of the values of photography, that it captures a subject(s) and becomes a vehicle of knowledge, presenting a vision of a non present subject that can then be incorporated to the cultural capital of the observer. Here you have gained knowledge by distinguishing between a piece of intestine from a piece of fat. That is called learning. But instead of a piece of fat, it could have been an insect, a plant, a fish, a cultural element, etc.
As for your Chipotle example, with all due respect, they are hardly representative of mexican cuisine. They may be closer than Taco Bell, but still hardly a trustworthy reference as to what Mexican food is like. Same goes for the carnitas taco in the picture that you link to, while accurate in a very, very, but very generic way, it does look like a carnitas taco, not carnitas themselves. That taco could be a shredded beed taco, a birria taco, even turkey taco, and not necessarily a carnitas taco.
I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that I was some sort of FOAK about Mexican cuisine. I'm glad for the elucidation. It suggests we do need to improve the article, and certainly this picture is a step in that direction. Daniel Case (talk) 18:17, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As far as the image is not striking enough to be featurable, well, that is your opinon and you are entitled to it. So your vote is appreciated anyway.

--Tomascastelazo (talk) 05:45, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Case, that lead image is Taco; just a use of Carnitas. Hope this image and this article will give a better idea. Jee 05:28, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK, those help. But it is worth noting that a) the image at Flickr shows the pot, giving a sense of scale which this image did not have, and b) the blog post suggests that what we see here may be subject to further preparation (i.e., cutting into shreds) sometimes, so (as Tomas's discussion of the taco photo I linked to suggests) it does not represent all carnitas. Daniel Case (talk) 18:17, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Tomascastelazo: I would be invited next time, please serve on my plate the ass and the tail of pork, its my favorite part. --The Photographer (talk) 11:04, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Question Dear Jebulon, David Case´s opinion centers on the issue that the elements are not identifiable and therefore the picture is not featurable, for if the elements were identifiable the picture would not need an explanation, and therefore be featurable. So my question is, is this the case only in this picture or is that criteria applicable to all pictures that have elements that are not identifiable by the viewer? This position, while valid on the personal level, is disastrous in an effort that seeks knowledge independent of ideological or cultural bias and is based on the cultural capital of the individual and not on the object that represents knowledge. This get close to Taliban or ISIS mentality. On the issue of aesthetics, is that a requeriment for featurableness? If so, we really have a problem, for aesthetics is culturally given to a very large degree, and would therefore render a lot of culturally centered images unacceptable to propose for FP. That, I think, is an arrogant posture where a dominant culture excludes the diversity of aesthetics, which in western civilization seems to be a prevalent position. Are foreign objects beautiful only when in agreement with another culture´s values? Dog meat, for example, to westerners is abhorrent, yet to some oriental countries it is a delicacy. Likewise cow meat, to westerners is a good thing, but Hindus would tend to disagree. Some people would think that fine french wine is grape juice gone bad. People tend to dislike those things that they do not comprehend. --Tomascastelazo (talk) 00:32, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose First of all, let me say that I'm perfectly fine with the content of the image – the subject itself is surely featurable, imho. I also like that you managed to almost entirely fill the frame with the meat. But there are some aspects that prevent me from supporting: 1) Julian already mentioned the reflections. 2) Composition: The nose is the only thing I can easily identify, which automatically makes it the anchor point for my eyes. Having this anchor point right in the center makes for a quite boring composition; I would probably have preferred it to be arranged around one of the vertical lines of the rule-of-thirds grid and pointing more towards the center of the frame (rather than me). 3) Lighting: The direct lighting from the top makes the most important part of my main anchor point (the front side of the nose) lie in the shadows. It is fighting for attention with the less interesting top part of the nose, which is more in the center and has lots of glistening fat (eyes are typically drawn to the brighter parts of an image). Also, shadows in general are a bit on the harsh side. A tiny little bit of fill flash from the side might have improved the lighting quite a bit (would've been tricky, though, if there was indeed a piece of glass in front of the meat). Nevertheless: Thank you for this very interesting image! --El Grafo (talk) 09:27, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

* Oppose For all the opposers --Σπάρτακος (talk) 16:54, 15 June 2015 (UTC) Striked --Cart (talk) 19:38, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed results:
Result: 13 support, 6 oppose, 1 neutral → featured. /--Cart (talk) 18:18, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This image will be added to the FP gallery: Food and drink
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