Commons talk:Structured data/Beta captions testing

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Known issues

Please leave your feedback about multilingual captions below. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 20:36, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Enable visual editor?[edit]

Would it be possible to enable the visual editor?

Its media addition gadget has a lot to gain from captions (editors should be able to add an image without seeing the filename, only the localized caption).

Thanks! :-) Syced (talk) 23:56, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Skip step[edit]

Way to reproduce:

  1. I am at https://commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/File:P%C3%ADsek,_policie.jpg
  2. I click on pencil sign in Caption section
  3. I click on Add a caption
  4. I click to the dialog box of the language
  5. I type in the langue
  6. I fill the caption...

Avoid step 4. Move cursor to dialog box automaticaly after step 3. Thats my proposal to spare time. Juandev (talk) 11:56, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Add language selector in read mode[edit]

Now it looks like the caption section is just a drop down box. That may work for the case, there are few languages, once there are lots of languages, it will be chaos. It would be better to set language upon the wiever preferences or browser/computer settings and provide language selector. Juandev (talk) 11:56, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

The functionality on Commons will work pretty much the same as it does on Wikidata. So, in read mode, by default the user will only see a few captions listed instead of all the captions in all entered languages. It is true that if the user chose to expand the list then it could present a pretty long list to scroll if the file in question has captions in many languages, but again that is how Wikidata works and we wanted to start with equal functionality in our initial release. If the Commons community generally doesn't like it, we can look into changing it, perhaps with a language selector as you suggested. Also, just like on Wikidata, if a user has Babel set up on their profile, those settings will control exactly which languages show up in the short list of captions by default. RIsler (WMF) (talk) 20:23, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Why caption[edit]

I am asking why we need caption, because preliminary consultation with community on this topic was chaotic. It seems to me its more work for users to fill in Caption and Description. But our goal in easing the contribution to Wikimedia Commons must be to give them less work.

  1. So is it possible that one day it will be filling just shorter Caption and Description field will be left for GLAM and those who want?
  2. Couldnt we generate caption automaticaly from well structured filename?
  3. I caption somehow a parallel of the Descritipon of item on Wikidata? Juandev (talk) 11:56, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Hello. Just to clarify, WMF intent is for captions (and all future structured data fields) to be optional. If users don't want to add them, they can ignore them completely. This could potentially change if there's a community decision to make some fields required, but it's not in our plans currently. Similarly, the decision to have automatically generated/suggested captions would be a community decision, and I expect that people need some time to play around with the initial release before they can have a solid opinion either way. Finally, from a technical standpoint captions are equivalent to labels on Wikidata. We could possibly have structured descriptions in the future as well, but it's not planned at the moment. RIsler (WMF) (talk) 20:13, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Using the captions[edit]

As usual, I'm more interested in using data in sister and third-party applications such as Wikipedia than merely being displayed on Wikimedia file pages. So some observations:

  • Structured data is going to be most useful to me when it can be imported directly into another project. Data on Wikidata is available via the Wikibase client, so will we have an API exposed to Lua/Scribunto that can access captions and other structured data from Commons.
  • Looking forward, if captions become machine-readable in other projects, we will need to examine some of the limitations currently imposed on captions on Commons. For captions to be useful on Wikipedia, for example, wikimarkup will be needed, particularly the ability to link to articles on the relevant language Wikipedia. As captions are monolingual text, there should be no problem in hard-coding some sort of link markup appropriately for each language (it wouldn't necessarily have to be simply the [[ ]] used by MediaWiki).
  • The 255 character limit may turn out to be too short as well.
  • Additionally, if captions become machine-readable in other Wikipedias, we will need to respect local policies and guidelines, such as Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Captions. That's worth a read when considering how we're going to use captions.
  • Finally, if captions become machine-readable in English Wikipedia, we shouldn't make the mistake that Wikidata made by failing to provide US-English as a selectable language. Articles in enwiki must be consistent in their style of spelling, and that can be accomplished if a lang parameter is used to define the style. What the coder doesn't want to do is have a common word like "metre" rendered as "meter" by default and have to write exceptions for every other variant of English. What the coder does want is to make the "en" default "metre" and code just one exception for "en-us".

Hope that gives some food for thought. --RexxS (talk) 00:55, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

+ 1 on @RexxS: points. In addition:
  • How is the relation with P2096-caption on WD ? Can it be used instead of when doesn't exists the P2096 ?. Thanks, --amador (talk) 06:49, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Good point, but still I am not sure, how usefull captions may be. What I see from the RexxS points is, that Captions, may be used by Wikipedia's visual editor to generate file Descriptions. The actual pracise is, that it is generated from file name, which is not a good way due to non standard file names and just monoliguality. Juandev (talk) 08:48, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

One line[edit]

In the current version it says "Add a one-line explanation of what this file represents", but my interface is set to Dutch. Translations missing? Besides that if I do a return, I don't submit it (what I would expect), but I enter a new line in the box. But aren't I supposed to add only one line? Please change it to a single line box and return submits (just like labels on Wikidata). Multichill (talk) 21:42, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing on the translations, I've sent a note to the translators' mailing list asking for a check to make sure one's language has been translated. For those reading that might be interested in helping, here's the link to translate on translatewiki.net. As for the new line return behavior, I'll look into it. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 21:53, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Structured data legend[edit]

I am not fully convinced that structured data as title of the section is really user-friendly. Also, whilst the little pen to edit is clearly nicer than "modify" link, it is a little bit inconsistent that some sections have pens and other sections have modify links. This is quite a minor detail, but still. Noticing as well that it is unclear why the licence section is centered whilst every other section is left side. Anthere (talk)

Continuing on the topic of section titles, is it possible to move the Structured Data header level down by one, i.e. from =Header= to ==Header== or something equivalent. It's huge now compared to other section headers... --HyperGaruda (talk) 18:29, 10 January 2019 (UTC)