Commons talk:Template i18n

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to: navigation, search

Information[edit]

Will it be possible to change {{information}} too? --Slomox (talk) 22:25, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

In theory, yes. However, this would require careful planning, as edits to this template can destroy information of almost every image on Commons, which will then take a long time to regenerate. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 23:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I tried it (I needed some edits, until it worked ;-) ). You can test it by replacing "information" with "User:Slomox/test" and previewing the page. 'en' and 'nds' are supported for now. Works for me. (Only "other_fields" is skipped, cause {{autotranslate}} does only support 6 parameters and {{information}} needs 7.) --Slomox (talk) 01:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
We probably need it to work perfectly and in most languages before it can be deployed, with a lot of testing. But thanks very much for working on it ! le Korrigan bla 09:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
You should do all the steps {{autotranslate/doc}}. The number of vars is now 6, but can easily be increased to whatever number you like. {{information/autotranslate}} is a good place to have your testing version. Multichill (talk) 14:34, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I changed all existing local templates and changed all image description pages directly including local templates. --Slomox (talk) 20:42, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I just came across Template:Information (Internationalised), which is an earlier attempt of internationalizing {{information}}. It works with {{int:...}}. {{int:UploadFormDescLabel}} for example produces "Description:".
Is using this construct encouraged? For most autotranslated templates it has no benefits, but short messages like "description" or "see below", which can be used in multiple places, could be used easier. Is it safe to change the template to using {{int:...}}? --Slomox (talk) 17:30, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok. I restructured the template to use {{Author missing}}, {{Description missing}} & {{Source missing}} again. The template now doesn't use {{autotranslate}} anymore. Please take a look at {{Information/autotranslate}}. Imho the language bar is distracting. I removed it from the template. Most language version still have to be changed to support the new setup. Multichill (talk) 17:44, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Self[edit]

I just saw, that {{Self}} does not work with {{autotranslate}} cause of a template loop. It should be possible to circumvent this if we would create an identical copy of autotranslate under {{autotranslate2}}. If we use autotranslate2 on {{Self}}, there should be no loop being detected. We only have to take care, that autotranslate2 is updated too, when autotranslate gets changed. --Slomox (talk) 01:29, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Just tested it and it seems to work. --Slomox (talk) 01:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
No template hacks please. Why did you get the loop in the first place? Multichill (talk) 14:34, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I had no problems at all. I just saw, that Self is rendered in English and I wondered, cause I was sure I had translated it to Low Saxon. Then I realized, that Alno had changed the template on November 26, but reverted it quickly cause of the loop. The second template was just my idea to solve the problem.
The reason for the loop is quite obvious: Self is a container template. You can provide several parameters (like {{Self|GFDL|cc-by-sa}}). Each of the parameters will then be called as a template. So the calls go like this: Self calls autotranslate, autotranslate calls Self/en, Self/en calls Self/layout, Self/layout calls GFDL, GFDL calls autotranslate, and: template loop, autotranslate indirectly calls autotranslate. It's not harmful, cause it's no infinite loop, but the software doesn't know that. --Slomox (talk) 15:30, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Yep, we are stuck with two autotranslation templates or we could subst {{autotranslate}} at {{self}} to get around this problem. I'll create an example at {{Self/autotranslate}}. Multichill (talk) 19:01, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok, done. Seems to work alright. Multichill (talk) 16:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Dynamic generation of /lang templates[edit]

Hello everyone, I was wondering: Why don't we generate the language template dynamically? This is what I thougt of: We create a template {{Langlist}} (or similar) that looks like this:

{{#ifexist: Template:{{{1}}}/de|[[Template:{{{1}}}/de|{{#language:de}}]] |}}
{{#ifexist: Template:{{{1}}}/en|[[Template:{{{1}}}/en|{{#language:en}}]] |}}
etc...

All /lang-templates would then be obsolete. All we had to do would be put {{Langlist|{{subst:PAGENAME}}}} in the /layout-template. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 17:43, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

You'll hit parser function limits. Can be generated every once in a while, we already have templates for that. Multichill (talk) 17:51, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Size of this page and parser limits[edit]

Hello everyone, seems like I just managed to reach the parser function limit on this page. As there is still a lot of work to be done, I suggest moving this project into the Commons namespace and encouraging other users to help. We should then split the actual message lists by context, e.g. message templates, license template, marker templates and so on. We should also put together a list of core templates, meaning the most used templates, which should be translated first. What do you think? Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 20:03, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Another option is to use CatScan :) --Waldir talk 21:43, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Split the page[edit]

I think really this page is too heavy. It tooks over 10 seconds for me to upload the page. Why don't split the page to User:Multichill/Template i18n/Licenses/Creative Commons, User:Multichill/Template i18n/Licenses/Public domain, User:Multichill/Template i18/Licenses/Other, User:Multichill/Template i18n/Cleanup, User:Multichill/Template i18n/Marker etc.? --Joku Janne(Fi) (Wikiwiki) 14:45, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

The master plan is to move it to the Commons namespace in a short while and then split it there. I guess we can live for a few more days with the big page in its current state. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 18:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
There are too many templates used in this page, templates after {{PD-ineligible}} is not showed. I hope that this page will be moved as quickly as possibly. --Joku Janne(Fi) (Wikiwiki) 20:06, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I18n of message templates[edit]

Hey everone, I just came up with an idea how we could improve the i18n of the message templates for user talk pages. In the current form, you can either subst autotranslated templates (which end up in a big mess of code) oder not subst them. If you don't the edit section link will take you to edit the /layout template of the template you put in. This is actually a pretty bad situation, as users trying to answer these messages end up editing the template and not their talk page. I propose the following: We need a template wich autotranslates the heading and another one which autotranslates the text. The entry on the user talk page should then look like this:

== {{messageHeading}} ==
{{messageText}}-- ~~~~

This would enable ppl to use the edit section link as they normally do and still not break the autotranslation feature. Opinions/comments? Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 15:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Since the new parser came into life, sections made with html (e.g. <h1>) rather than wikicode won't produce an edit link. I guess that feature can be used for this purpose. --Waldir talk 22:40, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, that would remove the ability to edit the section, which is not what I intended. People should still be able to reply. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 00:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Moved to Commons space[edit]

Ok guys. Moved everything to the Commons namespace. It started as a test a short while ago, but it looks like it's now a full blown project. We should probably explain on Commons:Template i18n what it's all about, how to convert at a template (link/copy {{autotranslate}}) and how to help out. I split the gigantic list into several smaller lists. I'm not sure i'm done with that. I'm probably going to move all creative commons templates from Commons:Template i18n/License tags to another list. Multichill (talk) 21:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Categories[edit]

At the moment every language subtemplate hosts an instance of {{translated tag|CAT}}. I just updated the CAT part for a template and had to update 13 different subtemplates. But obviously the {{translated tag|CAT}} part is the same for all language subtemplates of a specific autotranslated template. So the tag should be included in the layout template and be transcluded to the language subtemplates. If we would do so, we would have to update only one page to change the category for all subtemplates.

This could be done with {{#ifeq: {{NAMESPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/{{SUBPAGENAME}} | Template:{{{base|}}}/{{{lang|}}} | {{translated tag|CAT}} | }}. But unfortunately the {{{base|}}} parameter is not inherited to the layout template. Does anybody know a workaround so the tag only gets included to the right templates? Is there any way to obtain the pagename of the "current template"? I guess {{#ifeq: {{NAMESPACE}}{{SUBPAGENAME}} | Template{{{lang|}}} | {{translated tag|CAT}} | }} is not safe in the case of autotranslated templates used in other autotranslated templates. --Slomox (talk) 18:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

int:Lang[edit]

Autotranslate needs {{int:lang}} to work. When I did some testing, I realized, that the Mediawiki messages "Mediawiki:Lang/xx" for most languages (even big ones) do not exist yet. I took the language list from Template:Language and created all of them. But I left out all variants. I am not sure what to put in them. For example "de-formal" (German, but using the more formal and polite form "Sie" instead of colloquial "du"). If I choose "de-formal" in the preferences, int:Lang returns "en", so we have to set Mediawiki:Lang/de-formal to something. But what? "de" or "de-formal"? "de" is better cause there are no "de-formal" localizations on Commons pages or templates (and it would be rather pointless to add them). On the other side setting it to "de-formal" would make sense, if we had a decent language fallback system. Fallbacks are implemented in Template:Autotranslate, but are not accessible independently. Perhaps we should separate the fallbacks in an own template?

Other codes I left out are codes for different scripts ("tg-cyrl", "tg-latn"), codes like "en-gb", and the Chinese variants. --Slomox (talk) 20:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

We should have a fallback list in the autotranslate template. Fallback for de-formal should be de. I don't know about other fallbacks, maybe we can find some info over at Betawiki, where MediaWiki translation is coordinated. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 20:41, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
So you mean, the content of Mediawiki:Lang/de-formal should be "de-formal", but we should provide proper fallback to "de" by Template:Autotranslate (or a separate template), right?
The pages left are (with their logical first fallbacks):
crh-cyrl: crh
crh-latn: crh
de-formal: de
MediaWiki:Lang/en (should en be set? I guess it doesn't matter, but perhaps it has some kind of advantage or disadvantage)
en-gb: en
hif-deva: hif
hif-latn: hif
ike-cans: ike
ike-latn: ike
kk-arab: kk
kk-cyrl: kk
kk-latn: kk
kk-cn: kk
kk-kz: kk
kk-tr: kk
ku-arab: ku
ku-latn: ku
pt-br: pt
ruq-cyrl: ruq
ruq-grek: ruq
ruq-latn: ruq
sr-ec: sr
sr-el: sr
tg-cyrl: tg
tg-latn: tg
MediaWiki:Lang/tokipona (its in {{language}}, but I guess, we shouldn't create it)
tt-cyrl: tt
tt-latn: tt
zh-classical: own wiki, so should be just 'zh-classical'
zh-cn: zh
zh-hans: zh
zh-hant: zh
zh-hk: Hongkong Chinese-> zh
zh-min-nan: own wiki, so should be just 'zh-min-nan'
zh-mo: Macao Chinese-> zh
zh-my: Malaysia Chinese-> zh
zh-sg: Singapure Chinese-> zh
zh-tw: zh
zh-yue: own wiki, so should be just 'zh-yue'
Cross-variant fallbacks get more complicated, I guess. If there is no 'sr-ec' and no 'sr', should 'sr-ec' users be send to 'sr-el'? --Slomox (talk) 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I think we should provide proper fallback for those. Cross-variant fallback seems unneccessary to me. Mostly, the normal template will be translated first. Another thing: Should we include links to those in the /lang templates? E.g. de-formal is only created when the user is being addressed. All other templates don't need that language variant, meaning there would be no link to that language. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 21:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Should we include links to those in the /lang templates? I'm not sure, what exactly do you ask about? If 'de-formal' exists as a separate translation from 'de', it should be linked in the /lang template.
Cross-variant fallback seems unneccessary to me. Depends, I'd say. If we have Cyrillic letters and Latin letters, what would go in the main template? It depends on the culture, I guess. In some multi-script languages most people have knowledge of both scripts, in some others the respective scripts are completely illegible for most people. On the other side: Using Commons without at least basic knowledge of English is still a nightmare. So most users will know Latin letters. Fallback to Latin script could be useful then. But script can be a matter of ideology too and fallback to Latin could mean people wanting to kill you ;-) I guess, it's best, if I go to Betawiki and ask the translators for each language, what their preferred fallback is (there should be at least one contributor for each language on Betawiki). --Slomox (talk) 00:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

list of pages needing updates[edit]

We should provide some kind of service to give translators the possibility to take notice of changed templates. English is de facto the default message and changes to the English message should reflect in the translations. At the moment translations only get updated if the translator who is dedicated to a specific language by pure chance notices the change.

A bot monitoring the English messages and putting any major text changes on a notice board would be great. As a quick solution it would be possible to create a page linking to all English messages. RecentChangesLinked could then be used to take notice of changes. --Slomox (talk) 20:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Commons:Polling templates[edit]

I already asked on Commons talk:Polling templates, but nobody did react. Is it safe to unify the Commons:Polling templates and localize them by using Template:Autotranslate? Or is it wanted behaviour to express opposition and afreement in local language?

(I'm asking all this questions on here, cause the page is called 'template localization' and they are questions related to template localization. If you want me to ask the questions somewhere else, please say so.) --Slomox (talk) 17:53, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know whether that would have much effect. The actual wording of the polling templates can be changed with the {{{1}}} parameter anyway. The message of the template is pretty clear, even if you can't read what it says. If you want to localize them, I suggest only localizing one of them and redirecting the other ones. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 20:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Kurdish in Latin script[edit]

What to do with Kurdish in Latin script? See Template:1922 cyc/ku. It's messed up, cause Template:Dir assumes 'ku' to be in Arabic, thus rtl script. It works fine, if 'ku-latn' is specified in the 'lang' parameter.

I think, it is clear, that the 'lang' parameter _should_ be changed to 'ku-latn'. But what then? Should the page be moved too? Or should it stay under '/ku'?

(This thread is also related to the "int:Lang" thread above.) --Slomox (talk) 12:37, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Spending some more thoughts on it, I come to this conclusion: Translations in languages with different scripts should always be created under the full code for the script the translation is in. Under the simple code we should place a template with code like this:
{{#ifexist: Template:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/ku-latn | {{Template:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/ku-latn}} }}
{{#ifexist: Template:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/ku-arab | {{Template:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/ku-arab}} }}
If I have 'ku-latn' in my preferences I will see 'ku-latn', with 'ku-arab' in the preferences I will se 'ku-arab', and with 'ku' in the preferences I will see both. Seems like a logical solution to me. --Slomox (talk) 12:52, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
I have modified the '1922 cyc' example accordingly. It works fine with 'ku' in the preferences. It should work fine with 'ku-latn' as soon, as we create MediaWiki:Lang/ku-latn with the value 'ku-latn' and it will work with 'ku-arab' as soon as we create MediaWiki:Lang/ku-arab with the value 'ku-arab' and change Template:Autotranslate to use Template:Fallback where I added 'ku' as fallback for both 'ku-latn' and 'ku-arab'. --Slomox (talk) 13:09, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Headlines in User templates[edit]

In short: Please make sure, that the inclusion of information templates on user talks creats a propper, hard-coded headline on the users talkpage.

Hi, at Commons_talk:WikiProject_Templates#Request: Vorlagen für Benutzerdiskussionen, Überschriften i requested in german fixing of the user information templates, Commons:Template i18n/User templates. The problem is, that many templates are already included on usertalks without a proper headline that makes section editing possible and that makes usertalks structured. Slomox fixed this for {{copyvionote}}, you can review his edits Jan 29, ~18:00 h. I fixed it, using Slomox example, for {{idw}}, you can review my edits all here. Pro and con:

  • The substitution of user information templates will now create two lines on usertalks, a autotranslated headline and the autotranslated text. The headline introduces an editable section wich was previous to Slomox correction suppressed using html tags <h2>.
  • Inclusions made between the switch to autotranslate and the correction are now deformed without a headline. The apparent isolation of {{copyvionote}} and {{idw}} with a frame is helpful here.

Planing: the also heavy used {{image permission}} and {{image source}} should be corrected the same way. To make old inclusions a bit lesser deformated the layouts of this templates need a frame, but of course the layout can be changed later again to achieve a better layout standardization of information templates. --Martin H. (talk) 20:55, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Internationalization of {{Location}} template[edit]

I created internationalized versions of 4 location templates:

Here is test image with those 4 templates: in english and polish version. All 4 templates use the same set of translation phrases and the same layout template. I need help uploading the first 2 templates -the pages are protected. --Jarekt (talk) 03:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The strings "Google Maps" and "Google Earth" need localization too.
And instead of {{Location/{{#ifexist:Template:Location/{{int:Lang}}|{{int:Lang}}|en}} you should use {{Location/{{Fallback|NAME OF TEMPLATE}} (or autotranslate, but I guess, there's a reason not to use autotranslate). That allows proper fallback for unsupported languages.
Is it intentional, that User:Jarekt/a is different from {{Location dec}} (dropping Live Maps, MapQuest, Yahoo! Maps)? --Slomox (talk) 04:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Why would we need to localize "Google Maps/Earth"? This is a product name and language-independant. I am not aware of Google releasing this under different names in different countries. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 12:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for great suggestions. I
  • switched to use {{Location/{{Fallback|NAME OF TEMPLATE}}. There might be a way to do it with autotranslate but I am not sure how.
  • localized "Google Maps" and "Google Earth" strings. After I have done it I realized that I can not think of cases when they would be different. Than I read ChrisiPK comment and which was along my original thinking. Do languages with other alphabets ( Russian, Chinese, or Arab) use latin alphabet in this case?
It is intentional, that User:Jarekt/a is different from {{Location dec}}. I was attempting to unify the look of above 4 templates by using a single layout. They started with the same look but it looks like corrections and improvements were added to each template separately and their looks diverged. --Jarekt (talk) 13:28, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I don't know whether Google officially uses any translations, but even if they don't, we still have to give localisers the possibility. In some languages with foreign scripts knowledge of Latin letters is widespread and so is the use of Latin letters for foreign names. But I'm convinced that's not the case in all languages. --Slomox (talk) 13:35, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I just tested by switching Google's interface language. It is translated in most languages. --Slomox (talk) 13:40, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Yes I also checked interiki links at wikipedia. Most are the same as in english but ~10% is different. Can someone help me in uploading the first 2 templates -the pages are protected.--Jarekt (talk) 03:20, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I updated {{Location}}. But I didn't update {{Location dec}}. User:Jarekt/a includes the documentation of {{Location}} which does not fit {{Location dec}}. Is there any reason I don't see or is it just an error? --Slomox (talk) 09:32, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your help. You are right about the documentation. I will update it.--Jarekt (talk) 02:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Documentation template:location/doc is now in sync with the User:Jarekt/a and other Location templates. --Jarekt (talk) 18:11, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
{{Location}} is now updated. --Slomox (talk) 18:32, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, (actually it was {{Location dec}}) --Jarekt (talk) 00:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Du oder Sie?[edit]

Mal eine Frage an die deutschsprachigen Übersetzer: Sollte man bei Vorlagenübersetzungen eigentlich du oder Sie benutzen? Ich hab einige mit Sie gesehen, jedoch sagt die deutschsprachige Wikipedia ganz eindeutig, dass sich alle duzen. Wie ist es jetzt also bei den Übersetzungen: Muss ich die Leute duzen oder siezen? --The Evil IP address (talk) 13:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Die Übersetzung mit dem Sprachcode de ist in der Du-Form zu schreiben. Wenn man zusätzlich eine Sie-Form braucht, dann kann man die unter dem Sprachcode de-formal ablegen. Sollten die Du-Form und die Sie-Form sich nicht unterscheiden, dann bitte keine Sie-Form anlegen, da die automatische Übersetzung so funktioniert, dass de angezeigt wird, wenn de-formal gewünscht, aber nicht vorhanden ist. Deshalb auch immer zuerst de anlegen, das ist die wichtigere Übersetzung. Grüße, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 18:16, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah ok, danke für die Antwort.--The Evil IP address (talk) 12:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Langlist policy and more[edit]

I wonder whether there are any other pages telling about template i18n and policies related? I see some localized templates having langlist (list of languages included below the message) inclued and some not. For instance {{information}} doesn't have it, which is almost obvious. But {{flickrreview}} also doesn't have it and this seems to be the same type of message as licence tags and other box messages having langlist. So what's the difference, when to include langlist?

Personally I don't miss langlist in any template, though perhaps just becouse I know how to find other language versions easily without (then again, I need other languages only for translating matters). Perhaps the langlist should only be included in templates of vital importance thus in licence tags? Is it worth to have message space for langlist in maintenance templates such as {{editprotected}} or could it do only with interface language? E.g. for such simple message as {{easy-border}} langlist seems especially pointless taking most of the message space.

Other than langlist matter, I also wonder regarding {{easy-border}} whether should such simple templates follow the scheme insisted here on this page as well or were the things kept more simple, if other than having layout page and subpage for every language, it would just use {{#switch:{{int:Lang}}|en=... }} to translate this short message? Thanks! 195.50.204.12 08:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd say, every template that has different language versions should have links to the other versions. But of course space is an issue. E.g. Template:GFDL uses two thirds of the space for the lang list. Perhaps it would be possible to hide the links behind an advanced CSS dropdown menu (like the menu used in the Vector skin).
If the text that needs localization is short than it's not necessary to use the autotranslate mechanism. But instead of {{#switch:{{int:Lang}}|en=... }} you should use {{LangSwitch}}. This provides proper fallback. --Slomox (talk) 09:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I think we shold rather find a way to change the site language instead of displaying lang links for every single template. There are many templates where lang links are rather inconvenient (e.g. {{author missing}}) and should IMHO be removed. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 10:25, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
But how/where do you add that link? And personally as a translator/localizer I like to have a per-template list of available translations. Of course the needs of translators come second after the needs of readers, but for readers it could be irritating too, if you click the "language X" button, but the templates stay in language Y cause language X is not available.
It would be great, if we could professionalize our localisation efforts to make the coverage of translations less sparse. That would make a pag-wide/site-wide language link more meaningful. --Slomox (talk) 11:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure where such a link would be best placed. I'm afraid we'd need a software update to allow users to set the language for their current session. Our only way of directing users to a page in their language is by adding ?uselang=xx to the URL, but this is not a really good solution because it doesn't set a cookie or something, but only sets the language for the current page. When the user moves on, the language goes back to the default setting. However, I still think that the current solution is worse. Imagine you are looking at a page with 5 templates and need to click each language link separately to get all the translations. Adding a langlist to the SiteNotice could work. We could also raise awareness for template translations by including a notice template when defaulting back to English, like "This template does not have a translation in your language. Click here to fix this.". Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 15:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree with ChrisiPK that it would be great to be able to choose a language for a given session without typing ?uselang=xx on each page. Even a simple tool that shows a dropbox to choose a language for a single page would be an improvement over current situation. I noticed that a lot of my Google searches return Wiki Commons pages as top choices, so we might be getting good fraction of our traffic this way. Those people might not have accounts (with chosen language) or know ?uselang=xx trick. I also like ChrisiPK proposal about marking somehow parts of the page that did not get translated due to lack of template translations. May be always use a different color of text if default option of a template is used. --Jarekt (talk) 15:25, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

My two cents about this: What would be perfect, if the language links would just switch the template text into another language, without page reloading or loading a specific template page. Likewise, if you have {{Cc-by-sa-3.0}} on the site and press the German link then it shows {{Cc-by-sa-3.0/de}}, if you press the French link, then it shows {{Cc-by-sa-3.0/fr}} and so on. I don't know if that's technically possible at all, though. --The Evil IP address (talk) 11:34, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, there's so many better ways. Javascript, ajax, MediaWiki extensions... but we lack the resources (i.e. people with the technical abilities willing to help us). We finally got the Meta thing (see {{mld}}), but I didn't look into it much yet. Rocket000 (talk) 12:08, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
I've created JS to load translation using ajax. see MediaWiki talk:Common.js#Ajax translation of templates. ערן (talk) 09:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Next step in translations[edit]

We pretty much converted all heavy usage templates to use autotranslation now. The next step is to move some of the translations to www.translatewiki.net. The best templates to move there are probably the "official" license templates like {{GFDL}}, {{FAL}} and the Creative Commons templates. I picked a subset to start with a while ago. I started with the Creative Commons templates because we have a lot of them and translatewiki can make it a lot easier for us to get all these templates translated. With the help of the people at translatewiki we'll probably be able to get a lot more translations and better translations. Besides that these translations can be used by other wiki's or even other programs. The steps to take are:

  • Enable the Wikimedia license messages extension at Commons so we have access to the translated texts
  • Convert templates to work with the translated texts from translatewiki (example at {{Cc-by-sa-3.0-example}})
  • Translate!
  • Add more templates to the extension (country specific cc templates, gfdl, gpl, fal, etc)

Basically I am looking for support, because I cannot pull this off on my own - speakers of as many languages as possible are needed, as well as support from those building the license templates. Do you support the proposed structure? Any questions? Are you willing to help and with what? Multichill (talk) 17:48, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

That's not a next step after Autotranslation, it is a completely new system, that replaces Autotranslation. --Slomox (talk) 18:52, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible to use parameters in messages called by {{int:}}?--Slomox (talk) 19:02, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, can be used, see: "Reverted edits by Some good guy (talk) to last revision by Some vandal" ({{int:Revertpage|Some vandal|Some good guy}}). --The Evil IP address (talk) 19:27, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
It isn't replacing autotranslate, which is still usefull for "non-offical"/community/local templates, as such templates couldn't be added as system messages. I think the "offical templates" could be easily exported from here and imported in translatewiki, and using this way we keeping the credit for the translators and could add mass of templates to the translatewiki. However, what about links to project help pages from such templates (e.g link to Commons:GNU Free Documentation License from Template:GFDL)? ערן (talk) 21:12, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment: I think that could work for the license templates. A clear advantage would be that they can't be vandalized that easily, which can be quite problematic with more minor languages, where no one watches the templates and vandalism then often remains there quite long. I would however, if possible, try to use the already translated texts from Commons if possible, this would make the start somewhat easier and wouldn't completely throw away the work that those people have done translating it. --The Evil IP address (talk) 12:37, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
I added a lot of country versions of Creative Commons templates. Please help getting these translated at translatewiki. Please take care to deeplink to the translated version at the Creative Commons site (for example http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/it/deed.nl instead of http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/it/deed.en at the nl translation). Thank you! Multichill (talk) 14:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
French is already done Clin. Jean-Fred (talk) 16:29, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
✓ Done: de and de-formal by ChrisiPK and me. Keep the new templates coming ;-) --The Evil IP address (talk) 18:19, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I think only {{Cc-zero}}, {{Cc-pd}}, {{Cc-sa-1.0}} need to be added to complete the Creative Commons coverage (compared to Commons:Template i18n/Creative Commons license tags). Some country specific templates are probably missing. Does anyone have a full list of all Creative Commons templates?
Besides the Creative Commons licenses {{FAL}}, {{GFDL}}, {{GPL}} and {{LGPL}} are obvious candidates (all "formal" licenses). I'm not sure about the exact text to use for these licenses. I want to have that clear before we all start translating the (wrong) texts. Multichill (talk) 19:51, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Extension is enabled[edit]

Hi guys, the extension is enabled. I made an example at {{Cc-by-sa-3.0-example}}. Could the rtl/ltr people check if all looks alright? Can the layout be improved? Colors alright? What do you think? If all is well I'll build a standard template for all the country versions. Multichill (talk) 21:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I already noted it when Siebrand and Bastique were deleting some of your edits. Looks ok to me, but I'm wondering about the /lang links. While I can understand that monster templates don't look good, but their purpose was for unregistered users who can't set languages in their preferenes and need to view everything in English. I'm not sure how {{int:}}-stuff works with {{Mld}}, but this template has the advantage that it recognizes one's browser language (and not the user language). Another option might be the way Translatewiki does it, where they have a select form which switches the text if the user chooses another language (I must admit, however, that I have no idea how this is technically done, even after looking at the source, but it's a quite good option). The best option would probably to use nothing of the above at all and to automatically find out the browser language (as it's for example done on Google or YouTube), but this doesn't seem to be possible at the moment. --The Evil IP address (talk) 23:46, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Having a pulldown menu somewhere for anonymous users to change the language would be nice. Should be for the whole page, not only the cc template. Multichill (talk) 20:19, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
I think being able to change page's language would be nice for registered users as well. While testing internationalization templates I often find myself typing ?uselang=xx at the end of the http address. It would be nice to be able to do it through GUI. --Jarekt (talk) 02:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
So this should be some sort of extension enabled by default for anonymous users and possible to enable by registered users. Multichill (talk) 11:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm converting some templates, see Commons:Template i18n/Creative Commons license tags. All cc-by-sa templates use {{Cc-by-sa-layout}} for the same look. Multichill (talk) 12:46, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Converted the remaining cc-by-sa templates and did some other updates. Now about every template (expect a couple of odd ones) is translated either using {{Autotranslate}} or the extension. I plan on converting the autotranslated templates in the next couple of weeks. Multichill (talk) 17:54, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

GFDL minefield[edit]

Hi guys, I was looking at the different GFDL templates for translation, but it looks like it's quite complicated.

I think the correct way to fix this is to:

Besides linking to the proper license text I think that all the templates should contain:

Thoughts? Multichill (talk) 16:03, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd say: unite them in a single template and make the version a parameter. That way it's much less likely the templates start to digress again.
{{GFDL}} should be the newest version.
The rest sounds good. --Slomox (talk) 16:48, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Problem with {{GFDL}} is if we change it to "1.3 or later", the statement that the files tagged with it are also licensed under 1.2 will be lost. Maybe amend it to say explicitly "1.2, 1.3 or later" and link 1.2 and 1.3 to the appropriate pages? We probably should try to migrate our use of GFDL templates to match that of the CC ones and put GFDL-1.3 instead of GFDL in the upload forms.
As for Commons:GNU Free Documentation License, MediaWiki:Copyright (and a bunch of other system messages) need to point to the text of version 1.3. Either edit them to point to Commons:GNU Free Documentation License 1.3 or leave 1.3 at the generic page and use a hat-note to point to 1.2.
Personally, could go either way on most of those but in any case make sure that the system messages and upload forms point at the most appropriate target.--Nilfanion (talk) 02:06, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Migration to cc-by-sa-3.0 is only possible if it is GFDL 1.2 or later. If GFDL is changed to be 1.2 only then we would have a problem? I think that if users want a specific version they must choose it and if not then it is always the latest. Perhaps that should be made more clear so users are informed better. --MGA73 (talk) 08:37, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

{{Cc-by-sa-3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}}[edit]

As suggested here it's probably nicer to have a bit shorter message. Suggested text:

"This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike licenses: 1.0 Generic, 2.0 Generic, 2.5 Generic and 3.0 Unported."

This also applies to {{Cc-by-sa-2.5,2.0,1.0}}, {{Cc-by-3.0,2.5,2.0,1.0}} & {{Cc-by-2.5,2.0,1.0}}. Any suggestions/objections? Multichill (talk) 12:23, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Good suggestion :-) --MGA73 (talk) 12:26, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, that looks good to me. Also, same is true for {{Cc-by-sa-1.0+}}, {{Cc-by-sa-2.5,1.0}} and {{Cc-by-sa-2.5,2.0,1.0-no-link}}. To me, the last one looks redundant and a possible deletion/redirect candidate.--Nilfanion (talk) 12:08, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
The only problem with changing that will be, that we need to create a new system message for this. Right now it seems as if the templates are just using the system messages for the licenses mentioned, so that gives a lot of redundant text. If we would want to refactor these templates, we would need to create new system messages containing the license statement for all the mentioned licenses in one sentence. -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 12:53, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Clean up documentation on the templates[edit]

Now that autotranslate is gone from the creative commons licenses, should all the documentations refer to translate wiki for changes to the translations?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 01:24, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it should. See Template:Cc-by-sa-3.0/doc. If you don't spot any errors, this one can be used to fill all the other /doc pages. Multichill (talk) 11:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Autotranslation broken[edit]

Multichill's edit of {{cc-by-3.0}} has broken the autotranslation for me. Now all I see is the generic version, not the English version (my account is set to use the English language). I don't know exactly what you guys are up to here, but let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Kaldari (talk) 18:21, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

What is broken exactly Kaldari? Multichill (talk) 18:22, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Why doesn't uselang=en match Template:Cc-by-3.0/en? Kaldari (talk) 18:25, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
In particular the language about attribution in uselang=en doesn't make sense in the context of Wikipedia. This is why it is worded in the way it is worded at Template:Cc-by-3.0/en. Changing how the template translation works should not also involve changing the wording without consensus to do so, but maybe I'm just out of the loop. Kaldari (talk) 18:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Because the Creative Commons templates don't use autotranslation anymore. We switched to an extension containing the messages. See the topics above this one. Could you please use preview btw? I keep running into edit conflicts :-( Multichill (talk) 18:33, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
OK, well I guess we just need to change all the messages in that case. Would you mind if I edit {{Cc-by-layout}} and http://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Wm-license-cc-by-3.0-text, so that the Creative Commons templates are restored to their original wording? Kaldari (talk) 19:13, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
You seem to be the first to think the current text is wrong. Could you please explain what is wrong exactly? Multichill (talk) 20:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
I think he likes the old text better. This new format is easier to understand but not as elegant. Do you think we can make it a little more compact? Rocket000 (talk) 22:56, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
And maybe use File:CC some rights reserved new 2.svg instead. Rocket000 (talk) 22:58, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
The biggest problem with the new wording is that instead of instructing reusers to simply attribute the author, we now instruct them to "attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor". And since virtually no one on Commons specifies how they want their work attributed, this leaves any potential reuser scratching their head. I can imagine some reusers reasoning that since the author doesn't specify how they want to be attributed, that means that no attribution is necessary. The old wording was clear and concise. Whether or not we switch back completely doesn't matter to me. I'm mainly concerned with reverting the attribution instructions back to the simpler form. They can always click on the full code link if they want the gory details. Kaldari (talk) 00:32, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
I think current wording is trying to match exactly to the wording on [CC page]. The inelegant wording comes from them. --Jarekt (talk) 02:06, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
I was talking more of the structure/layout of it than the wording, I guess. I don't miss all those language links though. :) Rocket000 (talk) 03:52, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I know the wording comes from Creative Commons. In fact, we're actually violating their copyrights by copying their wording verbatim without credit (as the Creative Commons site is licensed under cc-by). Regardless, we can do better for our users than recycling Creative Commons description. The wording we were using before was perfect. Why should we change it? Kaldari (talk) 00:43, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
The text we are using from the CC website is very short. I think such short excerpts lack originality and are thus not copyrightable. Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 12:55, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Template:Section resolved/standard module[edit]

This template would benefit from a translation to other languages. Currently, only de, en and ko are available. --Leyo 13:23, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Request for a few Betatranslatewiki translations[edit]

Copied/pasted/adapted from Commons talk:Localization, which looks dead:

Hi. Could anyone set up a few localization templates for me (well, not just for me, of course)? I would need {{int:}} versions of "day", "days", "week", "weeks", "month", "months", "blocked" and "indefinitely". Curiously enough, {{int:month}} gives something unexpected (From month (and earlier):). It would be very appreciated (this is in order to issue better translated block notices to users). Apparently the accepted way of providing this kind of translation is not through Commons. I don't want to contribute myself to Betatranslatewiki but I don't want to mess with the organization, that's why I rely on other volunteers... I hope this is the right place for my request. Thanks in advance. --Eusebius (talk) 11:28, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

7 May?? I thought I had made this request months ago... --Eusebius (talk) 11:41, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
We should rather set up sentences instead of single words, because the sentence structure isn't the same in all languages. And btw, you can still do it here at Commons. At the moment, it's solely the license texts which are done over at Translatewiki, other stuff can still be done here. --The Evil IP address (talk) 12:24, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
About word and sentences: yes, but... About doing it here: OK, I'll do that, and they'll be ported to translatewiki if/when needed. About the priorities: no, nothing... --Eusebius (talk) 12:58, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

New PD-user / self texts[edit]

Please see Commons talk:Licensing#Review PD user/self texts. Multichill (talk) 10:54, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Sentence to factorise[edit]

Hello,

« This tag does not indicate the copyright status of the attached work. A normal copyright tag is still required. See Commons:Licensing for more information. » comes quite often (in source templates). Any objection to have it in a separate template ?

Jean-Fred (talk) 17:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan. Multichill (talk) 20:04, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Symbol support vote.svg Support --Jarekt (talk) 14:13, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

✓ Done See {{Copyright-tag-still-required}}. Translations were seeded using {{LOC-meta}}. See example use on {{SLQ}}. Jean-Fred (talk) 17:35, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

template:transliterate[edit]

I have created a test {{transliterate}}. As the name suggests, the idea is to transliterate things from one writing system to another. I guess it could be used for some proper names. So far it does not do much, it just allow you to replace

{{langSwitch
|ca=Hu Jia
|de=Hu Jia 
|en=Hu Jia
|es=Hu Jia
|fr=Hu Jia
|it=Hu Jia
|nl=Hu Jia
|po=Hu Jia
|ru=Ху Цзя  
|zh=胡佳
|zh-cn=胡佳
|zh-tw=胡佳 
}}

by

{{transliterate|chinese|cyril=Ху Цзя|PY=Hu Jia|simp=胡佳|trad=胡佳}}

See the template for more details and Category:Hu Jia (activist) for an example.

I guess more could be automated. For Chinese -> English, it would probably mean using the wiktionary. There would be some inaccuracies (differently pronounced words that are written the same way) and it would be somewhat complicated when there are several words (no spaces between words in Chinese). For other languages like Russian, perhaps something better can be done. Is it worth working along those lines ?--Zolo (talk) 09:51, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Template:Self-photographed[edit]

Is there anyone who could contribute one or more additional translations? --Leyo 11:28, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Done for French. What is the purpose exactly, is it intended to be used in place of {{own}} for photographs of artworks? Jean-Fred (talk) 12:02, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes, to indicate that the artwork is not “own”. Hence, it should not be the translation of “own photograph”, since this might be misinterpreted as “I own this photograph”. --Leyo 12:14, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Colors and priority[edit]

I would like to translate some of the templates into Persian. Because there are lots of works to do, I want to know if there is any way to determine which ones are more important or in a higher priority (Are the colors (dark green, light green, and gray) for the same reason? if yes, which one shows a higher priority?) Thanks in advance. AMERICOPHILE 18:07, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I would start with templates at Commons:Template i18n/Most linked-to templates - since they are the most used ones. Also The colors indicate translation technique used. I would first concentrate on templates using "Light green" color. Dark Green is used for templates translated using text from translatewiki.org and the translations would have to be added there. I am not sure what gray/white rows means. --Jarekt (talk) 19:22, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
I was a little careless because the link to the most used templates was available on the project page (last line). It seems that Persian (fa) has a good status and all of the most used templates have been translated into Persian before! I try to do the others. AMERICOPHILE 19:59, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Translate extension[edit]

The Translate extension has been enabled, see Commons:Requests for comment/Translate extension. All templates without translations should be made translatable with the new system and all users can help by following the page translation tutorial, although a translation admin will have to approve the page for translation. Templates with existing translations need the user or translation admin to manually copy all old translations to the new system, or some process to be created for it. --Nemo 07:23, 22 May 2013 (UTC)