File talk:Flag of France.svg

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Couleurs du drapeau tricolore de la France
     blue rendered as RGB 000 035 149
     white rendered as RGB 255 255 255
     red rendered as RGB 237 041 057

Correct colours?[edit]

Is these are correct colours? fr:Drapeau_de_la_France and en:Flag of France give different values for red and blue. based on them Image:France flag large.png has correct colours --TarmoK 08:44, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The current colors have a source cited (Flags of the World). The colors given in the text of fr:Drapeau de la France were originally added on July 11, 2004 (diff) without any source citation. (The equivalent text at EN was merely translated from FR, on October 9, 2004.)
Of course, if anyone can provide any justification for the claim that the red is Pantone 032, and the blue is Pantone Reflex Blue (instead of Pantone 186 and Pantone 282, according to FOTW), it is very easy to change. User:dbenbenn 15:42, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I had a glance at flagsoftheworld.com, and obviously, there is an error, somewhere : I used a well known open-source software to edit the flag with RGB(0, 85, 164), and with no doubt, it looks like better the french flag. I freely don't care about PENTONE, and can tell you that flagoftheworld don't use the blue color in use in the actual french flag of wikipedia.--62.34.70.201 19:40, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I found a source for the other colors: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/phildenis40/Niveau2/Voyages/Pays/France/Drapeau.html. I am not sure where in French law I should look up, but this gives us a head start. Zach (Smack Back) 11:09, 25 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The following link (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/phildenis40/Niveau2/Voyages/Pays/France/Drapeau.html) is broken. My web's site has moved out. Now, the correct one is http://phildenis40.free.fr//Niveau2/Voyages/Pays/France/Drapeau.html. Best Regards. Ph.DENIS

Something a bit more official I found while trying to sort out the Italian flag mess: http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/de/frankreich_3/frankreich-entdecken_244/portrat-frankreichs_247/die-symbole-der-franzosischen-republik_260/trikolore-die-nationalfahne_114.html. It says that the RGB colors are RGB(0,85,164) for Blue and RGB(239,65,53) for red. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 22:42, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bump. It seems to me the current version doesn't match the colour specifications noted on the image page, or any others discussed. Why is this? Paul_012 (talk) 14:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reverts and things like that. I can fix it, if needed. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 21:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That would be great, but given the extent of info on this page, how do we know which are the correct colours? Paul_012 (talk) 13:03, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I will use the French Embassy in Germany website as my source. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 03:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The RGB colors came out odd, so I used the CMYK guide listed on the same website. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 05:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I had to revert this : it was clearly too light, at least for the blue. I don't think CMYK is a good idea for a Web picture... le Korrigan →bla 12:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
+1 Anyway, @Zscout370 check your source, they specify, PANTONE Reflex Blue und PANTONE Red 032 --Pixeltoo 12:22, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That was the same site I used in the upload, just didn't use Pantone yet. I'll use Pantone now. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 05:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pantone version up now. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 05:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I remember seeing a thing like this over with the British flags---shouldn't Photoshop be set to sRGB with the whole color spaces thing before sampling the colors (IIRC PS requires the whole monitor profile thing)? And anyway, the solution the other people found was to use CorelDraw's colors instead, which (if you disassociate "Adobe = Good, Corel = Cheap" -- not saying that this is what the people were thinking, but too many times people go to Adobe first) actually has quite good interpretations of Pantone for use on the Web, as most web users have their settings set to the OS default, which in most cases is sRGB anyway.
BTW Corel gives Reflex Blue #171796 and Red 032 #ED2E38, which I've put below:
Current Version as of 02:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC):
 

#00209F

 

white

 

#F42A41

Corel's colors:
 

#171796

 

white

 

#ED2E38

The bottom colours look less washed out to the standard sRGB configured screen ... 202.89.152.154 02:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, the solution for Commons could be to set a particular Pantone reference (e.g. Corel) as the "reference of first instance"...202.89.152.154 02:09, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see a major difference in the red at all and no difference between the blues. Plus, I think it would be a bad idea to just only use one reference for Pantone, since not everyone has corel or wishes to spend money on a program they might only use a few times. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 22:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The correct colours are:[edit]

According to French Embassy in Germany, the blue stripe is Pantone Reflex Blue and the red stripe is Pantone 032, which equals to RGB (0,85,164), (255,255,255) and (239,65,53) respectively, or #0055A4, #FFFFFF, #EF4135.
You can find the exact same specifications here: http://bonjourlafrance.net/french_flag/france_flag.htm
So, if anyone could change the current flag to the right colours, thanks.
Xagasi 19:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I used the colors before from the German Embassy, but people called it "too washed out." User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 19:40, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Correction, I am using the Pantone colors that are listed from the Embassy. I used Photoshop 7.0 to get the Pantone colors. So no changes is needed at all. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 19:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The current colours of your version, if I am not wrong, are      #00209F      and      #F42A41     . But considering the 2 links I wrote before it is indisputable that they must be      #0055A4      and      #EF4135     , both links say the RGB codes are (0,85,164) and (239,65,53), which are equivalent to the HTML codes I have just written. Best regards.
Xagasi 23:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because I used the same codes you gave me before and French Wikipedians rejected it. So I went with Pantone, since that is also described in the pages you wrote. I am going to stick with Pantone, since that is making the French Wikipedians content. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 00:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now I see you got the colour codes using Adobe PS, but now I don't understand why you took Pantone coated colours and for example in the Irish flag other people took the uncoated. They give very different results. Xagasi 11:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unless the Irish flag law says others, I usually stick with coated when it comes to Pantone. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 14:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, uncoated Pantone colours are too light for the French flag, but so they are for the Irish, I have left my question there. Xagasi 15:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know that the Irish Government gave out Pantone numbers, but I do not know if it is coated or not. I need to check personally later. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 02:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That embassy site info[edit]

It is without doubt that no embassy, no goverment, no president can change the colours of the Flag of France. It is only the People and its representatives in Parliament who can do such a thing.

When Mr. President Sarkozy was in Britain last time, the much darker colour has been used.

Even if we wanted to defend the embassy colours we should admit that they are published under a title "Farbtöne - Informationen für den Druck der Tricolore" in German which on the first look seems suspicious. The title translates to "Shade of Colour - Information for the Print of the Tricolore". So those specifications are meant for printing only because it doesn't say otherwise.

IMHO concerning this particular flag - FotW uses much better colours representation than Commons at this point.

Rainman 23:52, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Size of each stripe[edit]

I've read in La Grande Encyclopédie du dérisoire that each stripe has a diffenent size. Blue should be about 30%, white 33% and red 37%. This should correct an optical effect which makes the blue stripe wider and the red one thicker. I've no other source to confirm it. 

Mioux

Found it : it's only for navy, sorry 

Ericbarriere

More logical and readable code in every trades 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<svg height="600" width="900" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
<g>
<rect fill="#FFFFFF" height="600" width="900"/>
<rect fill="#002395" height="600" width="300"/>
<rect fill="#ED2939" height="600" width="300" x="600"/>
</g>
</svg>

Contains unneeded coding (272 bytes), sufficient is (217 bytes): 

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="900" height="600">
<path d="m0,0h900v600H0" fill="#ED2939"/>
<path d="m0,0h600v600H0" fill="#FFF"/>
<path d="m0,0h300v600H0" fill="#002395"/>
</svg>

Consider the logical for : - computing science - the different graphical arts - web production - sign making

How to be an established user and upload the file ?

Colors[edit]

Are you crazy ? French flag is become italian flag or what ? --79.49.61.148 23:39, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Missing category[edit]

Since this page is fully protected I request an admin to add the following category: Category:Blue, red, white flags. Thanks, --KuK (talk) 22:41, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, --KuK (talk) 21:50, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bitte überflüssige Obercat. entfernen[edit]

Da die Datei bereits in der Subcat Category:SVG flags - France gelistet ist, kann die Obercat Category:Flags of France entfernt werden. Vielen Dank! --Mogelzahn (talk) 19:43, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Description[edit]

{{Editprotected}}

Français : Drapeau de la France
Afrikaans: Vlag van Frankryk
Alemannisch: Flagge vo Frànkrich
العربية: علم فرنسا
Български: Знаме на Франция
Brezhoneg: Banniel Bro-C'hall
Català: Bandera de França
Corsu: Bandera di a Francia
Čeština: Francouzská vlajka
Dansk: Frankrigs flag
Deutsch: Französische Flagge
Ελληνικά: Σημαία της Γαλλίας
English: Flag of France
Español: Bandera de Francia
Eesti: Prantsusmaa lipp
Euskara: Frantziako bandera
Suomi: Ranskan lippu
Gaeilge: Bratach na Fraince
עברית: דגל דגל צרפת
Hrvatski: Zastava Francuske
Magyar: Franciaország zászlaja
Kreyòl ayisyen  : Drapo Frans
Italiano: Bandiera della Francia
Latina: Vexillum Franciae
Lëtzebuergesch: Franséische Fändel
Lietuvių: Prancūzijos vėliava
Latviešu: Francijas karogs
Malti: Bandiera ta 'Franza
Norsk bokmål: Frankrikes flagg
Nederlands: Vlag van Frankrijk
Normaund: Couleu d'Fraunce
Occitan : Bandièra de França
Polski: Flaga Francji
Português: Bandeira da França
Runa Simi: Ransiyap unanchan
Română: Drapelul Franţei
Русский: Флаг Франции
Slovenčina: Vlajka Francúzska
Slovenščina: Zastava Francije
Српски / srpski: Zastava Francuske
Svenska: Frankrikes flagga
ไทย: ธงชาติฝรั่งเศส
Türkçe: Fransa bayrağı
Reo tahiti : Te reva nō Farāni
Tiếng Việt: Quốc kỳ Pháp
Wolof : Raaya bu Faraas
中文：法国国旗

Mogelzahn above me requested that [[Category:Flags of France]] be removed since [[Category:SVG flags - France]] is a subcategory of the aforementioned. My own request is that [[Category:Vertical tricolor flags]] be added. Homo lupus (talk) 08:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done, it might be that we can open the file description page soon (see COM:AN#Upload protection works again). --The Evil IP address (talk) 12:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

New Cat[edit]

I'm sorting Category:SVG sovereign state flags alphabetically. Please edit the cat tag to "Category:SVG sovereign state flags|France" Fry1989 (talk) 23:45, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Invalid SVG[edit]

It is not at all correctly coded, the validator shows 4 errors. Since it is still full protected it can't be tagged. How about protecting it only against IPs? sarang♥사랑 06:15, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

W3CiThe source code of the previous SVG was invalid due to 4 errors.

Corrected by Zscout370 (talk • contribs • blocks • protections • deletions • moves • rights • rights changes),
is now valid. sarang♥사랑 06:13, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 
W3C-validity not checked.

New category: "SVG sovereign state flags"[edit]

I've found an (serious? ;-) issue:

This seems to be so because it is included in the upper categories SUBcategory: SVG flags of France.
But:

  • For ALL greater "internationally-recognized sovereign nations" you can find one flag in the upper category

and

  • For ALL greater "internationally-recognized sovereign nations" you can find the subcategory "SVG flags of <country-name>"
as a subcategory of SVG_flags !!
and NOT as a subcategory of SVG sovereign state flags !!

I think, this should be fixed respectively unified:

1) The category: SVG flags of France should be moved (as a subcategory)

from category: SVG sovereign state flags
to category SVG flags

2) This Image (Flag_of_France.svg) should get the new entry: "Category:SVG sovereign state flags"

I think, even France deserves to show its flag directly under the category "SVG sovereign state flags" ;-).
• Jaybear • ...disc. • 17:14, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request[edit]

{{Editprotected}} See previous section. SiBr4 (talk) 19:49, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Categories[edit]

{{Edit request}} This should go in Category:National flag of France. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.173.239.113 (talk) 09:42, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done --Majora (talk) 03:17, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Categories (Part 2)[edit]

{{Edit request}}

This should go to Category:Flags of Mayotte Category:Flags of Saint-Pierre and Miquelon SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 20:45, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looks to already be done. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 02:22, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Categories (Part 3)[edit]

{{Edit request}} This should go from Category:SVG flags of France to Category:SVG national flags of France? SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 04:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 02:24, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Categories (Part 4)[edit]

{{Edit request}} Veuillez s'il vous plaît remplacer la catégorie Flags of Clipperton Island par SVG flags of Clipperton Island. —Iketsi (talk) 22:43, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 02:25, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

France has changed its flag in 2020[edit]

See here.

The current flag is now the colours of File:Flag of France (1958–1976).svg (or File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1958).svg, no one is sure actually).

How do we do this? We update this file? (since we keep old flags on Commons, I don't think we should overwrite it) Rename it to Flag of France (1976–2020).svg? How do we rename the other two?

--Thibaut (talk) 11:02, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well there’s now File:Flag of the French Republic.svg and File:Flag of France (1958–1976, 2020-).svg (both uploaded by GeorgiPergelov2009) which are exact duplicates of File:Flag of France (1958–1976).svg. --Thibaut (talk) 12:43, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think we're pretty good really. Also sourcing is a bit scant for making this change at the WPs. When does "France" "change" its flag? Is there an act of parliament (or equivalent) to do this? Macron standing in front of one at a press conference is a bit tenuous.
Commons:Deletion requests/File:Flag of France (1958–1976, 2020-).svg and Commons:Deletion requests/File:Flag of France (1958–1976).svg should be closed.
File:Flag of the French Republic.svg and File:Flag of France.svg should match, and one should probably be deleted and redirected to the other, if they're truly synonyms. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:21, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The article states that it is used by the presidential palace only. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 17:20, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's wrong, the article says C'est désormais un bleu marine qui s'affiche sur tous les bâtiments rattachés à l'Élysée, à l'Assemblée nationale, et même à la place Beauvau, au ministère de l'Intérieur (...). --Thibaut (talk) 18:29, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Which is strange because the news mentions that the navy blue version is used by the government and national monuments. We do not know if this is going to apply to civilians because it does not mention anything that is not owned by the government. It is best to keep the light blue one until further notice by the government because the flag has not been standardized yet. I am going to ask Fry1989 or Zscout370 to see they had to say about the change because if the colors were to be readopted then this file should be replaced too. If it's apply to all of France, then we can replace that file. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 18:56, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it’s what I feared, everyone create their own flags/forks based on their impressions: File:Flag of France (2020–).svg, instead of waiting for more information, discussion, etc. --Thibaut (talk) 20:28, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This file exist until an official statement regarding the codes of the colors is revealed by the government. We just don't know the color codes yet. But I will ask the French government about this. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 21:00, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Since we are in a Flag of Canada-like situation, I think a disclaimer should be added. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 00:39, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
File:Flag of the French Republic.svg and File:Flag of France (1958–1976, 2020-).svg? They're different files.
File:Flag of the French Republic.svg and File:Flag of France.svg are semantically equivalent. They mean "the currently appropriate flag of France, as best known to Wikimedia". But File:Flag of France (1958–1976, 2020-).svg means one specific design of a flag, which has been variously "the flag" and sometimes not. That's a different meaning. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:42, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The decision to use c:File:Flag_of_France_(1794–1815,_1830–1958).svg in french wiki is temporary, attending to what happends here, and considering that the most important is to match with the ensign and all the other files, as said here by Havsjö.
I realize now that the most important are the file's name, its history and its discussion history, so here is my proposition:

     blue rendered as RGB 000 038 084
     white rendered as RGB 255 255 255
     red rendered as RGB 206 017 038

PS: this file updated with dark colors does'nt need to be renamed in "Flag of France (darker version)" because this is the normal version for almost 200 years. --Harmonizator (talk) 12:54, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No answer here? This file needs to be changed to a dark version and a new file should be created for the brighter version. For all the reasons i gave and cause it's the easiest way to correct all wikipedia (and templates) who still use this file without understanding this was never the good shades.
We have to use the values i gave upper for now to match with all the related files.
I opened a new discussion for an eventual correction with the SHOM files values. Harmonizator (talk) 08:07, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I now see an army of pedants doing edits on templates where they change this image to File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1958).svg and some other odd images, which can be maintenance unfriendly. Can we please rename this image to File:Flag of France (1974-2020) and File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1958).svg to File:Flag of France.svg? I have seen the other discussions here with regards to the exact shade but I bet few readers use a colour-calibrated screen, just take the existing old flag image, that's what Manu had in mind anyway. Milliped (talk) 10:33, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So after a series of apparently undiscussed moves to various locations we now have File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg, when as @Andy Dingley: says there's absolutely no evidence there's been a formal change, just the use of a differently shaded flag at a press conference. FDW777 (talk)
 Question We need official references. CNews isn't an acceptable reference for such matter. Is there something in the "Journal officiel"? Regards, Yann (talk) 10:33, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

neue flagge[edit]

> https://www.faz.net/aktuell/stil/mode-design/warum-macron-eine-farbaenderung-von-frankreichs-flagge-wollte-17638952.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eddy felsen (talk • contribs) 21:58, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are true RGB values possible? An official digital source.[edit]

(I open a new discussion here to only talk about the colors of the normal/dark version, and not the organisation with other files)

First, I wana talk about the Couleurs de la Défense nationale (NORMEDEF001) source which is sometimes given. This is a very strange and technical document which talk about articles in which colors are set with painting or dyeing, like textiles. It never has the word «drapeau» and they just sometimes talk about colors to use for «symbole national». So, i don't know if french army make its flags with a special textile industry, but I think it's overinterpreting to use this source for the colors of the flag. And actually even if it's true, the color A503 could not be the good one. As you can see in the PDF or in the AFNOR panel, this color is really really dark. So, if their is a good color, it's probably A535 which is too given in the «symbole national» section.

     A503 approximation rendered as RGB 037 056 071
     A535 approximation rendered as RGB 029 073 134

But as I said, this document is really strange and I think it's overinterpreting to use it for a source for the colors of the flag.

For me, after multiples researches for the french wikipedia page, the only valid source is the Album des pavillons nationaux et marques distinctives edited by the official SHOM, in which, as said in Flags of the world, colors seems to be describe as approximatively Pantone 282c and Pantone 186c, and with CMYK interpretations for printing.
As you know, Pantone cannot be correctly convert in RGB or CMYK, and all values are interpretations. And we cannot convert the CMYK values to have RGB values, cause RGB needs a different interpretation, and if you do a conversion, you have really strange colors. (As for the flag of Europe where RGB value are a specific interpretation for screen and are not the conversion of the CMJK interpretation for printing.)
So what can we do with this approximative Pantone? Because if you search, you have multiples differents values for RGB interpretation. And I don't think we have a rule for Pantone interpretation, and even if we have one, this Pantones seems to be given approximatively

I was desperately looking for the latest version of the Album des pavillons of the SHOM when I realised that a preview is available here, and here too actually. And guess what... it's the pages about France. First it was a deception because they does'nt give any RGB value. But wait, actually, they give. I mean, this is a digital document of the offical SHOM, so that's officially the way they render the colors on screen, so we just have to copy the colors they used. When i pick up the colors, it gives me this:

SHOM's PDF:
 

#002659

 

#FFFFFFF

 

#DE2F2D

I don't say that this value are the correct ones to interprete Pantones, wich are given "approximatively".
But I say that this values are the ones used in the digital version of the official SHOM's Album des pavillons nationaux et marques distinctives, the only official source for me, and the way they have to render the flag on a screen with RGB.

PS: But actually, there is another little problem. As I said here, the rendering of SVG files in Wikipedia doesn't perfect match with the color set in the file. So if we really wana have the exact same rendering, we should understand how this error works or use another file type. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harmonizator (talk • contribs) 07:27, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request[edit]

It is requested that an edit or modification be made to this protected page.
Administrators: Please apply <nowiki> or {{Tl}} to the tag after the request is fulfilled.

Krinkle

Please change to a darker tone of the colour per the agreement of the RFC. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 18:30, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See the history of File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg. Something needs to be done to sort out this mess. FDW777 (talk) 11:43, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
M.Bitton, due to the format of the filename, I think it is safe to say that the large majority of people will expect this file to reflect the same image that Wikipedia is portraying as the official flag.
FYI. We went through this with File:Flag of Honduras.svg a few weeks ago when Xiomara Castro was inaugurated as president. She had previously committed to changing the Honduras flag from blue to turquoise. We had a lot of people expecting that File:Flag of Honduras.svg would immediately be changed. It took a week, and unfortunately a number of Wikipedians were impatient and pointed lots of Honduras articles to other flag image files leaving a bit of mess that probably nobody will clean up.
Ultimately the colour of File:Flag of Honduras.svg was changed to turquoise. Nobody complained of broken expectations after the change was made. On the contrary, the noise on the talk page came to a complete stop. MapGrid (talk) 04:41, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the same situation. Despite what some editors seem to think, the French flag was not officially changed: this one is not only official, it's also the most prevalent. It goes without saying that Wikipedians are in position to decide which of the two flags is "more official", it's not their call. M.Bitton (talk) 12:10, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
the French flag was not officially changed - correct.
this one is [not only] official - incorrect, no specific shade of blue has ever been official. The only things official is "blue, white, and red".
it's also the most prevalent - outside Wikipedias, it's not clear either way. On Wikipedias (which is what matters here), definitely incorrect.
--GrandEscogriffe (talk) 23:20, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, everything I said is correct. If no specific shade of blue has ever been official (as you rightly said), then why insist on changing a flag that is as "official" as any other? Wikipedia (the encyclopedia, not Commons) is supposed to reflect the prevailing views of the outside world and not the Wikipedians' view on the subject. If it's not clear either way, then there is no valid reason to change it. M.Bitton (talk) 01:22, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Because users of this image expect to reflect the actual usage. As there are no official rules that dictate the use of any particular shade, why, M.Bitton, should we stick with an image that uses a shade of blue that many users consider as incourant? Milliped (talk) 09:52, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also the good news is, the Wikipedans' view is based on sources from the outside world. The view of nearly every media is that "the French flag has changed colour" (one among countless examples). The view of a semi-official source like the SHOM (see section above) is that the flag has a #002659 blue shade. Have you got at least one recent source favouring the bright blue shade? --GrandEscogriffe (talk) 19:44, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • agree. As an user of only the french version of wikipedia, I do not know if I am allowed to vote, but if that change could be done quickly, that would spare us a lot of work back there. Et en tant que français, ça me chiffone que le drapeau sur wikimedia ne soit pas sur le drapeau en vigueur dans le pays, indépendamment de ce qu'on pense du président qui a décidé ce changement.--Sombresprit (talk) 14:16, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • agree. The darker blue flag has been used for over a year by the French government. It's time to update it once and for all. Le Braddock (talk) 18:55, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yet nobody noticed until three months ago (which proves that it's even less common than some would like it to be). M.Bitton (talk) 20:36, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not exactly , it just proves that the change was not common until three month ago. And even if it is not common, it doesn't mean that the change wasn't made. In 1976, when Giscard changed it to light colours, I don't think that this new flag was common. There was no official anouncement ( at least I didn't find any).People just noticed and gradually replaced dark flags with light flags. The return to the darker flag was was published by many newspapers and confirmed by the government on November 14, 2021. The French and all people interested in vexilogy know that the French flag has its original colours again. The darker flag is becoming more and more commonLe Braddock (talk) 23:28, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
gradually is the magic word. Maybe one day (decades from now, assuming the next president won't be pro-EU) it will become common. That said, there is no valid reason for us on Commons to overwrite a file that is factually correct and widely used as it is. M.Bitton (talk) 01:06, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That "one day" was November 14, 2021. The prsident being pro-EU has nothing to do with the colour of the flag since Macron might be the most pro-EU person in Europe. "widely used has it is" are also magic words. No one can have concrete evidences of the wide use of a flag. There are valid reasons and sources on this sections that the flag was changed and therefore that the file must be updated. Denying them does not make them false.Le Braddock (talk) 12:11, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No one can have concrete evidences of the wide use of a flag All the more reason not to change what is factually correct. M.Bitton (talk) 13:29, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We have factual evidences of what flag the government is using.Le Braddock (talk) 13:48, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You're going round in circles. M.Bitton (talk) 14:00, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going round in circles because you are not giving any factual conterargumentsLe Braddock (talk) 14:51, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Again, M.Bitton : please cite a source suggesting that the bright flag is more common or closer to "official". Sources refuting that have been given. --GrandEscogriffe (talk) 19:18, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are aware that there are no sources that can prove that either of them is more common than the other. Even if there was, it still wouldn't have any effect on a file hosted on Commons. M.Bitton (talk) 19:33, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some sources: https://www.euronews.com/culture/2021/11/30/france-s-new-blue-which-countries-in-europe-also-changed-their-flags , https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/15/sacre-bleu-french-flag-changes-colour-but-no-one-notices , https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/france-changes-flag-color , https://www.thelocal.fr/20211114/has-macron-changed-the-colour-of-frances-tricolore-flag/ , https://www.insider.com/france-flag-changed-blue-color-darker-2021-11 , https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59283134 and there are many more. The question is not to know which flag is the most common but which flag represents France the best. If a file named "Flag of France.svg" doesn't represent France the best, it means that it is inacurate. This file has already been edited nine time. There is no reason why it wouldn't be edited again.Le Braddock (talk) 20:38, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The question is not to know which flag is the most common but which flag represents France the best The best is subjective and irrelevant as far as Commons is concerned. The widely used file (despite your attempt as replacing it in various projects) has been stable for the past 10 years, therefore, there is no reason, none whatsoever to change it. M.Bitton (talk) 21:17, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The widely used file is outdated since july 13, 2020. As a result, it spreads unacurate informations about the current French flag. That's the reason why it needs to be updated.Le Braddock (talk) 21:58, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, it's neither outdated nor inaccurate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:26, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, outdated and inaccurateLe Braddock (talk) 22:30, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter M. Bitton, you persist in not seeing that there is an almost unanimous consensus for the update of this file. Not to update it would be a denial of democracy and a total disrespect for contributors who took the time to express themselves, source in support. There is a moment when you have to accept that you are wrong and lost. Friendly. Menthe 555 (talk) 02:09, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

wrong and lost First of all, I'm not wrong and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. Second: is this about winning and losing to you? Do you think this is game? Feel free to cite a Commons rule that says this is an experiment in democracy. M.Bitton (talk) 02:16, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Don't change the subject. And no need to copy paste the arguments of the contributors every time. The reality is there, there is a broad consensus for updating the file. No need to search, Wiki is a collective and collaborative encyclopedia based on consensus. It is a founding principle and it applies here. No need to close your eyes you have to accept. Friendly. Menthe 555 (talk) 02:26, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not changing the subject, I responded to your baseless assertion and a strange comment about "winning" (the parts that I quoted). Commons has nothing to do with the encyclopedia, each project has its own set of rules (here's a perfect example: someone complaining that South Sudan is missing from the map being told to respect COM:OVERWRITE and upload a new file). I suggest you learn the difference before attempting to lecture anyone about what this is. M.Bitton (talk) 02:38, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In the case you cite there was not a broad consensus. Here there is a broad consensus. Friendly. Menthe 555 (talk) 03:03, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Given that this is already in use and no one can point to an image with the alternate coloring which is being used, why fight to change this file when you can create another file and go see if every wiki agrees? People here arguing which one isn't the same as what each wiki thinks is ideal. This is supposed to be a place to host a file that represents the flag of France, not a place to demand what file represents the flag. If every wiki connected to File:Flag of France darker.svg (or whatever) and this was unused, then a rename makes sense (although it's still dumb to me). -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:59, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ricky81682: In fact, the other file exists and most major wikis agree to use it. Among the 31 wikipedias with more than 1000 active users, on the article about France:
    Of course the more you get down to small communities, the more you find small wikis where nobody has yet bothered to change the flag. GrandEscogriffe (talk) 15:27, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "Major" (assuming that's true) doesn't mean all and so long as this file is used (despite some SPA's best effort to change it in articles that they have never edited and whose language they don't understand), there really is no reason to overwrite it. In fact, doing so would go against what Commons stands for. M.Bitton (talk) 17:16, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    And if those major Wikipedias aren't using this file, does it matter for them what file this is? Those who didn't change still use a correct flag, so no problem there either. –LPfi (talk) 17:26, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @M.Bitton: as you surely have noted, the links above are clickable which allows you to verify everything instead of "assuming that's true". Verfiable claims, you know, the sort of which you have never made in this entire section. "some SPA's best effort to change it in articles that they have never edited and whose language they don't understand)" = another baseless claim.
    @LPfi: The Wikipedias use Flag of France.svg in many places more obscure than the top of the article France. Changing them all is a big maintenance work. They can also use the file in generic templates, like when {{Flag|Country name}} returns Flag of Country name.svg. All of this can have undesirable effects like two different flags displayed next to each other where they should be the same (like this, second infobox). GrandEscogriffe (talk) 21:07, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd rather say that that use of the flag shows why we shouldn't change it. Why should the flag change of Macron change what flag is used for service 1901–1942? It is much easier to update use in articles about current events (and templates used in those) than to notice and fix the wrong flag turning up in articles about history, which otherwise need no updating. In that article, of course, as the flag colour was reverted, that wouldn't be a problem, but it shows the principle. Files with generic names should be redirects, and announced to be updateable, while those not so marked should be stable. –LPfi (talk) 21:17, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @GrandEscogriffe: please stop pinging me. M.Bitton (talk) 22:57, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose If this file is still in use, especially if it is in use as the official flag of France, then the users on that Wikipedia have not deemed another version to be the "right" one. Who are we to decide what Wikipedias – n.b. not what "the Wikipedia" – should think is the right flag. When everybody has switched (if they ever do), then we can make this name into a redirect to the current best version according to random Commons users. If "what Macron has done is simply reverting to the pre-1974 practice of using dark blue", as somebody put it at en-wp, then what's wrong with people using File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg instead of this, if that's the flag they want? Our responsibility is not presenting The Right Version, but to keep images stable. Direct errors should be corrected, and the file description should tell what the file depicts, but that's it. –LPfi (talk) 17:23, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    What we could do is to explain the situation at Category:National flag of France, where anyone searching for this flag should look, and perhaps on a few other related pages. –LPfi (talk) 17:31, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "Our responsibility is not presenting The Right Version, but to keep images stable" might usually be a good idea, but that's not how the "Flag of Country name.svg" system works. See this renaming which allowed to update the flag of Mauritania. Of course they did not wait that literally everybody switch. This never happens. (Yes there is a difference in that the flag change of Mauritania was more official that the flag change of France, but you seem to agree that what matters is what serves the Wikipedias, not technicalities about what counts as official).
    "at Category:National flag of France, where anyone searching for this flag should look" : The point of the "Flag of Country name.svg" system is that you do not need to search Commons categories. You just type Flag of Country.svg (or use a template which does the same) and you get (what most people agree is) the flag of Country whithout ever setting foot on Commons. GrandEscogriffe (talk) 21:30, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    OK. Sounds reasonable. But please add a template to the file description pages of the files concerned, pointing to the "Flag of Country name.svg" guideline. That way discussions such as this won't be needed, or at least can be had from a common baseline. –LPfi (talk) 22:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "Our responsibility is not presenting The Right Version, but to keep images stable" applies perfectly to this flag (as, despite what a bunch of editors keep claiming, it is as "official" as the one they "like"). The criteria cited for the given example do no apply here. M.Bitton (talk) 22:57, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I hope the wording of the guideline in question makes clear to what extent the flag files are stable and under what circumstances they might change (What will happen when the new regime declares a new flag after a coup d'etat? Or by a militia taking control of much of the country?). Is anyone with sufficient privileges allowed and expected to tweak to their heart's content? Is the file supposed to be stable except when there is an official change by degree by the recognised authority? The guideline missing, is this a scheme that involved editors have clear but conflicting views on? –LPfi (talk) 07:44, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no written guideline that I know of. I do not know how it came to be or who discussed it, but we can see that there is a relatively clean set of flags at Category:SVG sovereign state flags which allows renamings under criterion 4.
    Also there is no separate description page so putting a template is on the admins too. GrandEscogriffe (talk) 22:11, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Criterion 4 is meant to "harmonize the names of a set of images". It has nothing to do with what's being discussed here and it certainly doesn't justify overwriting a flag. M.Bitton (talk) 00:15, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I hope that guideline will be written and discussed soon. It is odd that existing guidelines are sidestepped by what some people think is practice. Practice developed in limited groups make Commons much less predictable, and when practices between different groups happen to clash, there is even more confusion and frustration. –LPfi (talk) 21:00, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lossless size optimization[edit]

I used SVGOMG to losslessly optimize to: 

<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 900 600"><path fill="#ED2939" d="M0 0h900v600H0z"/><path fill="#fff" d="M0 0h600v600H0z"/><path fill="#002395" d="M0 0h300v600H0z"/></svg>

Any interest in updating? TSamuel (talk) 18:55, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No.
  • Your code does not include width and length attributes. Firefox, Chrome, and Edge are inconsistent when natively displaying SVG files that don't have a defined width and height. Most of the Sovereign state flags on Wikipedia use width="600". This allows for a consistent look across all the major browsers.
  • Your suggested viewBox is not optimized for this flag.
  • You have not included linefeed characters. I know, lots of people think they are doing everybody a favour by stripping out line feed characters, and I realize that the existing code for this flag does not have any. I am a strong advocate of both tab and linefeed characters because they make the code readable by humans... and this makes it much easier spot errors.
If I was updating the flag I would use something like this:
<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="900" height="600" viewBox="0 0 3 2">
	<title>Flag of France</title>
	<path fill="#fff" d="m0 0h3v2H0z"/>
	<path fill="#002654" d="m0 0h1v2H0z"/>
	<path fill="#ce1126" d="m2 0h1v2H2z"/>
</svg>
Oh me, oh my, it looks like I snuck a subtle colour change into that sample code. No regrets. MapGrid (talk) 23:18, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The “German embassy info” for the bright version is a copy of mixed values of the french Wikipedia[edit]

(All what follow is about the bright version and not the correct dark colors that has to be used for this file)

In november, with all my research about the colors of the flag, i found the 100% proofs that the “german embassy info” used for more than 12 years in multiples wikipedia and here, is just a copy of the french wikipedia.

First of all, as other users said before me, it was completely crazy to believe that the only official information for the flag colors could be on this little page of the german embassy in a section for printing information. This kind of "little page" page was probably written, specially 16 years ago, just for the website and u can clearly imagine that the person has just made some research and used wikipedia to make this kind of pages.
Then, the first capture available of the german embassy site are from 2006 and from few months later for the page about symbols which says:
“Die aktuellen offiziellen Farben (...) sind folgende: PANTONE Reflex Blue und PANTONE Red 032, bzw RVB(0,85,164) und RVB(239,65,53), bzw CMJN(100,80,0,0) und CMJN(0,100,100,0).”
Between december 2004 and mai 2006, the french wikipedia page says:
“Les couleurs officielles sont PANTONE Reflex Blue et PANTONE Red 032, ou RVB(0,85,164) et RVB(239,65,53) ou encore CMJN(100,80,0,0) et CMJN(0,100,100,0).”
Exact same values, exact same formulation, exact same order, exact same way to give Pantone then RVB then CMJN. It's a copy, in a way, or in the other way.

First and logic reaction with the Ockham's razor is, as I said, to imagine that the person who have to make a page about symbols of France for the embassy website abetween december 2004 and may 2006, searched some information, found some in Wikipedia and copy it. (and with RVB value for printing information? It's like he clearly doesn't know what he is talking about)
But let's imagine that the embassy site was online before 2006 and waybackmachine has no record of it for more than 2 years. And let's imagine the crazy thing that this embassy is the only administration who publish some RVB and CMYK values... ... Maybe the Wikipedia user had copied the information from the site?

But the true is that this sentence and this way to give all this values on the french wikipedia was here since July 2004 with differents CMYK values, and the RGB values changed in may 2006. So this combinaison of values was here only for a while and was a mix of two differents contributions of two differents users. Most important is that it's totally crazy to imagine that the first user who created the sentence took it from the embassy but changed the CMYK values. And it's more impossible to believe that the second one (an IP) gave the "good values of embassy" without giving the source.

To be 100% sure, i asked the first user who created this sentence and he answered me. For the ones who talks french, here is the discussion I had with him. As i didn't want to influence him, I just asked him where he found this information. He told me he didn't remember and that he probably make some convertions of Pantone values (but Pantone cannot be really converted in RVB or CMYK in an universal way, its always subjective). So, after, I told him about the embassy site, and he clearly told me that he never took any information in a german site. He doesn't talk german, and i'm sure it's the kind of thing that u remember, even years after.
And their is another little proove with the beginning of the german sentence. “Die aktuellen offiziellen Farben” means “The actual official colors”. The embassy writer use“aktuallen” because in the wikipedia page he used, their is a sentence before which said that the blue had been changed by Valéry Giscard d'Estaing (which it's not the really the true but that is not the question).
With all this information, I'm sure at 100% that the “embassy info” is a copy of wikipedia.

Here is how everything happened:

  • In July 2004, a french user gave the classic Pantone colors given for the bright version, and tried to give some RGB and CMYK values with some convertions that are always subjective for Pantone.
  • In december 2004, an IP user changed the CMYK values, probably to set with the one given in the the first graphic charter of government communication (which was never something to set the colors of the flag which always was officialy dark, but that is not the subject).
  • Between december 2004 and may 2006, someone in the german embassy wrote a page about french symbols and used the french Wikipedia with this special combinason of RGB and CMYK values created by the edits of two differents users.
  • (In may 2006, another french user changed the french page with differents RGB values. I don't know why (he left wikipedia) and this changement is not important.)
  • Between december 2004 and october 2006, the german embassy published the page with the copy of the french wikipedia.
  • In february 2007, the same IP who changed the CMYK deleted all this unsourced information to give the correct Pantones of the correct dark version of the SHOM without any RGB or CMYK value, and erased the sentence and special formulation copied by the embassy of the french wikipedia.
  • In october 2007, a Commons user find this false “embassy info” and used it to set this Flag (with the wrong bright colors, instead of the good Pantones of the SHOM whick give some darker colors).
  • And finally, for now 15 years, this false info which is a copy from random values of the french Wikipedia (about the bright and uncorrect version) spreaded all over the Web and the Wikipedias, and even the french one... I think it's the snake biting its tail !

In conclusion, please erase this false information created by the french Wikipedia, of this page and of all Wikipedias who use it (and use the SHOM file instead).
--Harmonizator (talk) 20:40, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PS: The colors for the bright version is another question. It has to be discussed in the bright version file. (Spoiler: it's the same blue than the european flag.)
--Harmonizator (talk) 22:31, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PS2: And I see now the ultimate proof... it's ridiculous.

The embassy page is just a translation of this page of Elysée.fr in 2006... And as expected, there is no trace of anything about printing colors. Worst, it's just a copy of the german version...
So, they just copied this Elysée page, they added the "printing info" from the french Wikipedia, « et voilà » ! --Harmonizator (talk) 16:07, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that an edit or modification be made to this protected page.
Administrators: Please apply <nowiki> or {{Tl}} to the tag after the request is fulfilled.

Krinkle

This false source has to be erased from the page. --Harmonizator (talk) 15:25, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good dark colors and official source, again[edit]

(as always, sorry for my bad english)
I know that they've been a lot of discussions about that, but i wasn't here for months and i see now that things are still in the wrong way.
So here is again the solution I propose.
Now that a new lighter version file c:File:Flag_of_France_(lighter_variant).svg has been created as I asked in this previous discussion, this file (Flag_of_France) has to be set in the correct dark colors as it always has to be. It's important to understand that it's this file that has to be set dark in the correct version because it's the historical file with all the discussion page in, and so the new file c:File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg has to stop to be used and be deleted (or redirected?) when it will be possible, because it's a really bad idea to have multiple doublon files (just one correct dark, this one, and one bright).
Now for the question of the good color, I copy here (with some little edits) the solution with an official source that I already posted few months ago without any reaction:

« For me, after multiples researches for the french wikipedia page, the only valid source is the Album des pavillons nationaux et marques distinctives edited by the official SHOM, in which, as said in Flags of the world, colors seems to be describe as approximatively Pantone 282c and Pantone 186c, and with CMYK interpretations for printing.
As you know, Pantone cannot be correctly convert in RGB or CMYK, and all values are interpretations. And we cannot convert the CMYK values to have RGB values, cause RGB needs a different interpretation, and if you do a conversion, you have really strange colors. (As for the flag of Europe where RGB value are a specific interpretation for screen and are not the conversion of the CMJK interpretation for printing.)
So what can we do with this approximative Pantone? Because if you search, you have multiples differents values for RGB interpretation. And I don't think we have a rule for Pantone interpretation, and even if we have one, this Pantones seems to be given approximatively

I was desperately looking for the latest version of the Album des pavillons of the SHOM when I realised that a preview is available here, and here too actually. And guess what... it's the pages about France. First it was a deception because they does'nt give any RGB value. But wait, actually, they give. I mean, this is a digital document of the offical SHOM, so that's officially the way they render the colors on screen, so we just have to copy the colors they use. When i pick up the colors, it gives me this:

SHOM's PDF:
 

#002659

 

#FFFFFFF

 

#DE2F2D

I don't say that this value are the correct ones to interprete Pantones, wich are given "approximatively", because there is no correct RGB or CMYK value for a Pantone .
But I say that this values are the ones used in the digital version of the official SHOM's Album des pavillons nationaux et marques distinctives, the only official source for me, and the way they have to render the flag on a screen with RGB. »
In addition, here are the corresponding RGB values:

SHOM colors
     blue rendered as RGB 000 038 089
     white rendered as RGB 255 255 255
     red rendered as RGB 222 047 045








As I already said, after a lot of research, this are the only RGB rendering on an official numeric document presenting the color of the national flag.
So, I repeat that I think:
This file has to be set with the correct dark color and this value, preserving all historic and discussions.
c:File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg has to stop to be used and deleted (or redirected?) after if possible to not have a duplicate. --Harmonizator (talk) 16:05, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to be sure that everybody understand what has not happened in 1974 or in 2020, and why it's important to set this file dark.
As we explain it in the french page, the colors was never completely officialy set and they never changed between 1974 and 2020. Valéry Giscard d'Estaing decided to use a brighter variant (to set the blue in the european Reflex Blue) only for protocol uses and they were never any official text of a changement anywhere. Flags never changed in army or navy and theoricaly, everywhere else. But as flags producers had two different shade now, they begin to sell it to some territorial collectivity and years after years, a lot of local batiments had this unofficial variant. That was never the case for army and navy. In 2020, Macron decided to stop to use this variant and always use the correct dark version. The fact is that the official colors had never changed, that was only a variant.
The colours are defined for two centuries in the Album des Pavillons as a “bleu sombre” (and maybe a “rouge vif”), and are since the end of the XX century approximate with Pantone colors as seen in Flag of the world since 2002. It was said in the french wikipedia in 2007 as the only official value, before the mess of the false “embassy info” (see uper).
For the colors of this file, I understand when some people say that we don't have to change a file and decide for the other sites. But everybody is free to use the lighter version with this file, and we are in a particulary case for flags. This file and others is not an image of a flag, but the construction of a flag based on a concept, a definition. And specially as this definition was wrong because of the variant, instead of the real color, I think all this mess and all the Talk history about the Flag of France have to be kept in the page of the correct Flag of France. So this file has to be the correct file with the correct colors.
Or whatever you decide, the most important is that the correct dark version has to be set with the SHOM values. --Harmonizator (talk) 06:10, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree to change this flags to the dark version. Next month will mark the 2nd anniversary of the flag change and yet the file has not been updated. As a result, many different versions of the French flag are spread on wikipedia. Sometimes, even on the same article. Thereby, informations concerning the French flag are inconsistent. However, I have doubts about the SHOM colours. Although it seems to be the most "official" source we have, using these colors would mean changing the red part of many historical flags and variants to standardize all tricolors to the same colours. For example: File:Naval Jack of Free France.svg, File:Flag of French Sudan (1958–1959).svg, File:Flag of Saar (1947–1956).svg, File:Flag of Philippe Pétain, Chief of State of Vichy France.svg, File:Flag of the French Southern and Antarctic Lands.svg ... Le Braddock (talk) 17:08, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. The fact that this file has to be dark or another is not really the most important. The most important things is that all Wikipedia have to stop to use any bright version as the Flag of France. It is not the good shade and it has never been, and specially not with a false "embassy source" that is just a joke. The flag has ever been dark and he has to be on the different Wikipedias, and changing this file is the best way to do it. If it's too late, it's really too bad. Actually, even the bright colors are wrong because the bright blue version has to match the european flag because it's supposed to be the same Pantone Reflex Blue. So if this files have to be the bright version, it has to match the european blue.
For the choice of the dark color, most important is to stop this mess where everybody changes every files every week because "it seems to bright" or "it seems too dark", "it's strange for me", "this colors are better"... ...
So the only way to stop that is to choose some colors. And as the colors had never been set in any official law or text, for normal colors or for RGB rendering, the best way is to choose the only "official" rendering that exist and stop all this colors changements.
Le Braddock I know all this files and there is many many more, but the colors are very close of the SHOM's colors so it's not a real probleme, it just gonna take time. Again, the most important thins is that all Wikipedia has to stop to use a bright version, and again, SHOM's file and colors are the best way to do that.
And I hope that now everybody gonna understand that the "embassy info" is just a big joke. So their is a need to edit the file to stop to use it as a source. --Harmonizator (talk) 19:05, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Do you actually lived in France or you just heard the news about the colour change? We need someone who lives in France to dicuss about these colour changes. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 22:32, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm from France, and I can say that Harmonizator summarized the situation well. There's even a theory that Giscard lightened the colours to make the flag more visible on 70s TV screens. Since 2020 the dark flag has been visible again at all presidential ceremonies. The problem with this file is that it's the first thing you come across when you type "Flag of France" into a search engine. This spreads the lighter flag despite the fact that it's not even used by the government anymore. It would be much less confusing if the flag in this file as well as its regional and historical variants had the same correct colours.Le Braddock (talk) 12:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Living in France is meaningless in this situation and claims that the lighter flag is less official than the darker one are baseless. In any case, we have COM:OVERWRITE to prevent this kind of fruitless discussions. M.Bitton (talk) 14:08, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Living in France or not isn't the problem. I give good informations with multiple sources, here or in the article Drapeau de la France were I corrected all the mistakes about this false colour changes and the false "embassy info".
Again, the color of the french Flag are officially Bleu, blanc et rouge, and there is anything else. They have never changed in 1974, neither in 2020. As explained in the french articles (google trad follows, probably better than my english):
"In 1974, President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing made a change in colors for state protocol uses to make it less martial and to make it correspond to the European flag (he had also asked that the rhythm of La Marseillaise be slowed down). The "dark blue" is thus sometimes replaced by a lighter blue (often referred to as Pantone 's "Reflex Blue" of the European flag ), and the red is also lightened (sometimes referred to as Pantone 032). Manufacturers of flags, especially for the Élysée, offering two different versions at the time, this lightened variant has since spread widely to town halls and other public buildings.
The July 13, 2020, President Emmanuel Macron , encouraged by the director of operations of the Élysée Arnaud Jolens, decides to stop using this thinned-out version. This return to classic colors, especially during speeches by the Head of State, went relatively unnoticed until November 2021."
Also, I explain more here, as this file seems to stay a bright version, that the Pantone colors for the normal version are not official, and the RGB values of the SHOM file are the best to use. --Harmonizator (talk) 14:23, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@M.Bitton: Look at the history files of the various regional and historical flags that I used as an example yesterday. They were all light colours and have been changed to dark colours. Exactly the same change we request with exactly the same colour shades. If , in your opinion , these flags are in violation of COM:OVERWRITE , feel free to repport them. If not, I don't see what would prevent us from making the same change here.Le Braddock (talk) 14:40, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Le Braddock: I don't need to look at anything nor report what you want me to. I explained how Commons works and I don't see the need to needlessly repeat myself. M.Bitton (talk) 14:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Harmonizator The shades of the official colours are not specified by any law. M.Bitton (talk) 14:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's exactly what I say here. But even if it's unofficial, there is clearly a "brighter variant" and a distinction between the normal version and the brighter variant. Harmonizator (talk) 15:10, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They are all normal. M.Bitton (talk) 15:42, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
??? If they are all normal, so why don't you want that we change the value of this file to correct darker colors??
I can be agry with you to keep this file bright because we can considerate that it was created to be about the bright variant (even without knowing it). But now you tell me that they are all normal? It's a contradiction. If you wana keep this file bright, you have to considerate it always has been the brigh variant (and so rename it). But again, I think it's a bad idea because of all its history ans its talk history. --Harmonizator (talk) 16:50, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Normal" is the adjective that you have been using to falsely suggest that some of them are not. Contrary to what you seem to think, this file is absolutely fine as it is.
I noticed that you created a hell of a mess trying to move some files around. M.Bitton (talk) 17:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just one file and it was a mistake. You can maybe help me instead of noticing it here, this is not the subject.
"Normal" is the better word I found. If you have a better idea, see you on the talk page of this file. --Harmonizator (talk) 18:01, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming as a brighter version[edit]

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Krinkle

If this file has to stay with bright colors, it's not a good idea that it is named just "Flag of France". This name has to be reserved for a correct dark shade version.
I propose the name «Flag of France (brighter variant).svg».
For all the reason given upper.
Variant instead of version, because this was never official in a text and the official flag (specially in armies) had never changed and had always been with the original dark colors.
And no date like 1974-2020, because it was never official. The brighter variant is stil in use and available to buy for administrations, probably for a long time. Nothing was asked to them or to flag manufacturers because all of this is unofficial. --Harmonizator (talk) 14:55, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it was about a color change, not a renaming. Isn't it a different request? --Harmonizator (talk) 15:04, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's the same thing. There is no need to either rename the file or change it. M.Bitton (talk) 15:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Changing colors and renaming the file are not the same thing. And their is some needs.
If you consider that all versions are normal, so a file named just "Flag of France" has to be set with colors the most accurate as possible. The color used in this file are too bright and we have the SHOM file to set them with the only RGB rendering of a french official source defining the flag.
If you consider (like me) that all versions are not normal and their is a brighter variant (with Pantone Reflex Blue and Pantone 32), so this file is a representation of this variant and has to be named as. (And “Flag of France” should be used for a normal version) --Harmonizator (talk) 17:08, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's the same thing and it's pretty obvious that all you're trying to do is find a way to circumvent the fact that editors have opposed the change. Nice try, but no, there is no valid reason to rename the file.
I suggest you familiarize yourself with what Commons is, as judging by your statements, you seem to be confusing it with the encyclopedia. M.Bitton (talk) 17:11, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am not "trying to find a way to circumvent" anything. I made this circular reasoning only because you said that changing colors and renaming the file is the same thing. And it prooved that something have to be done. I never made another edit request to change the colors, and i'm now in this section to talk about the need to rename it because you made me change my mind about changing colors (I understand now that we are not in Wikipedia), even if I still think it's a bad idea because all of the history of the file. I just gived a good reason to rename it and I'm not the only one who think that keeping this name is a good idea. --Harmonizator (talk) 17:40, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is no valid reason to rename the file. M.Bitton (talk) 17:53, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good values for a bright version and good Pantones[edit]

I wanted to ask to change the blue for the same values as the european flag because this variant was set to match it with the same Reflex Blue and it's visible in a lot of pictures in Elysée. But when i watched the color used in this file I realized that they don't seem to be good for Pantone Reflex Blue and 032.
The hexadecimal values of this file are : for the blue #002395 and for the red #ed2939.
Almost everywhere, Pantone Reflex Blue (C) is convert in #001489 and 032 (C) in #ef3340. (Alternative translation are #0c1c8c and #ef2b2d.)
The blue of this file #002395 is never any Reflex blue but Imperial blue (not the Pantone one), or some other names.
The red of this file #ed2939 is never any Pantone 032 but Imperial Red, or some other names.
For examples, you can check encycolorpedia.com, icolorpalette.com, color-name.com, hexcolorpedia.com, etc... Or pick up the color in Pantone.com.
And checking old version, none of them seems to be set with values for Reflex and 032.
So, did I miss something or is there a big problem? --Harmonizator (talk) 01:55, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I think the problem is from Adobe who gives crazy values. In this edit from 2007, the user said he used the Pantone with Adobe, and he gave strange values never seen anywhere else (#00209F and #F42A41). The last changement of color is from the same user here in 2009, this time he said he used Pantone.com, but it's obvious he used Adobe again which gave him another different values (our #002395 and #ed2939). I say I'm sure cause I found this shade for Reflex Blue posted by a user on the site color.adobe.com with the same central color. And again it's a really strange value never seen anywhere. Pretty sure it's the same for the Red 032. --Harmonizator (talk) 04:40, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Krinkle

So this time I request for changing the colors for the bright variant.
For the Red 032, there is no problem, it has to be #ef3340, the most common value and the one gived by Pantone.
For the Reflex Blue, you can choose #001489 for the same reason. But as I said, the main goal of the creation of this variation was to set the european flag, which is also in Reflex Blue and this matching is visible on a lot of pictures. So it's logic that it matches in this file with #003399 which is also brighter and better show the difference with the original dark shade. You also can find the 1999 graphic chart of the gourvent communication which set its color on the unoffical Reflex Blue and Red 032 of the bright variant, giving CMYK values for the Reflex exactly as the ones for the european flag. --Harmonizator (talk) 05:22, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New French Flag version[edit]

Please upload the Flag of France to the new colors like this one from Wikimedia Commons: Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg FireDragonValo (talk) 06:44, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This has been discussed and no valid reason has been given to change it. Obviously, the other flag is there for those who prefer to use the new colours. M.Bitton (talk) 21:35, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request - June 24, 2022[edit]

Can you please change the colors of the Flag of France to these RGB colors? Bleu (Blue) - rendered as RGB: 0, 38, 84 Blanc (White) - rendered as RGB: 255, 255, 255 Rouge (Red) - rendered as RGB: 206, 17, 38.

Thanks. FireDragonValo (talk) 16:08, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This has been discussed and no valid reason has been given to change it. There are plenty of other flags for those who prefer to use different colours. Alternatively, you could upload your own. M.Bitton (talk) 00:42, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Change colors[edit]

Hi, the France flag recently updated. Can you do that to this file also? RGB codes of the new colors: 0, 38, 84 for blue. 255, 255, 255 for white. 237, 41, 57 for red. Thanks. Therealmanu10 (talk) 18:10, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Outdated[edit]

This flag is outdated, the blue should be Pantone 282 C nowadays. Benoit Hugh (talk) 18:07, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg as part of other versions[edit]

Can you add the File: Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg as part of other versions? Thank you. FireDragonValo (talk) 00:56, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rename file[edit]

Seeing how this flag of France isn't the current flag I think it should be renamed to Flag of France (1975–2019) ChrisGamingNL333 (talk) 11:17, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@ChrisGamingNL333: I agree. — D’Azur, 05:30, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please use the new flag above. The link Flag of France.svg should redirect to Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg. — D’Azur, 05:30, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This file needs to be to be unprotected or at least updated[edit]

{{Edit request}}

Because the colours are outdated now. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 01:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend at least updating the banner on this page to the version mentioned in (https://www.gouvernement.fr/charte/charte-graphique-les-fondamentaux/les-couleurs), the 1976- The color of 2020 can be saved in a current page named "File:Flag of France (2020–present).svg" 2401:E180:8800:ED79:23D5:A24A:9AAF:5EC4 12:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, my suggestion is to at least exchange the pictures of (File:Flag of France.svg) and File:Flag of France (2020–present).svg, and replace the current File:Flag of France (2020–present).svg Page renamed to File:Flag of France (1976–2020).svg 2401:E180:8802:DABD:8076:A462:9264:790E 13:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But the book in this URL (https://diffusion.shom.fr/ouvrages/ouvrages-generaux/album-des-pavillons-nationaux-et-marques-distinctives.html) uses navy blue in the appendix he provides. 2401:E180:8801:5CAB:17D0:E4D8:582C:A41A 13:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why[edit]

Why can't we move so that the navy blue becomes the current flag? Why this flag is protected and then ignored by admins? Flix11 (talk) 05:08, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The color provided by the French government website is not navy blue(https://www.gouvernement.fr/charte/charte-graphique-les-fondamentaux/les-couleurs)。
File:Flag of France (2020–present).svg 2401:E180:8D51:6254:C524:9DF6:6E69:4A07 12:26, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request[edit]

{{edit request}}

Please remove Category:Flags with three vertical stripes of blue, white, red combination and Category:National flag of France since it was on the Category:SVG national flag of France. Thanks SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 19:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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