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.../parallel railways/uw/double[edit]

I've created Category:Icons for railway descriptions/parallel railways/uw/double in order to separate "common" ÜWs that just happen to begin/end at entry points for parallel tracks, from double-line 45° curves, mainly because these groups are incompatible between themselves. This was done at the expense of Tuválkin's single line category (I don't mind employing this additional breaking-up criterion, but I don't see any benefit in it either), so possibly another category may be added. YLSS (talk) 19:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Good idea, those doubles. I created the "single line" subcats because there were many icons accumulated at generic "parallel" categories and it is simple to diffuse and retrieve them based on whether an icon is like   (vSTR) or like   (vSTR-), or also things like   (vBHF) and   (vBHF-STR) vs.   (vBHF-). -- Tuválkin 12:51, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
"one side", in contrast, is IMO a good idea. YLSS (talk) 15:48, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
moved related discussion to Talk:BSicon/Renaming/SPL#.../parallel railways/uw/double


Tuválkin, and you kept this top secret! YLSS (talk) 19:08, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I have been meaning to initiate that discussion, and this category was made for example. I think that we should:
  • Abbandon the top level Category:Icons for railway descriptions (and kin) and move the whole tree onto under Category:BSicon. For me it is obvious why, but if anyone has doubts, lets discuss it.
  • Keep the current category naming system, with slashes that give a “breadcrumb trail” (and also keeping the recently/finaly adopted multi-tree approach!), but avoid some of the longer names (such as "stations and stops") and replace them with shorter ones. Ditto.
This changeover can be done seamlessly and swiftly with Cat-a-lot and a few volunteers in a couple days; redirects will keep the whole working during the changeover. -- Tuválkin 00:24, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Q1. "BSicon/road" => "BSicon/water", "BSicon/set u"; but what about present "Icons for railway descriptions"? "BSicon/set bahn", "BSicon/bahn", "BSicon/standard" or something else? YLSS (talk) 08:39, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
My stand: having arrived at an impasse, either we move everything under "BSicon", or move everything under "Icons for railway/canal/motorway descriptions". Having a mix of both is incoherent and confuses new icon designers during icon categorisation. Also leaves chances for users to inadvertently create erroneous and duplicative categories under both "BSicon" and "Icons for *** descriptions". NoNews! 06:09, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
Agree with Tuválkin to eliminate the top level Category:Icons for railway descriptions. Useddenim (talk) 15:14, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
Great but Category:Icons for railway descriptions should not be deleted, simply left alone to be used for actual icons for/of railway descriptions. BSicons should be categorized under Category:BSicon — this should be a no-brainer, but it is taking years to implement… :-\ -- Tuválkin 00:49, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Agree. Everything under Category:BSicon leaving Category:Icons for railway descriptions for non-BSicons.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:|]] ([[User talk:|talk]] • contribs)


  • No category including "Icons for railway descriptions" should be deleted for now, while they are not fully moved to new names, as their lack compromises the breadcrumb function in the remaining ones. Indeed they should be kept indifinitely as redirects, or else so many of our past discussion become mostly senseless. -- Tuválkin 17:54, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Difference between basic set and set u categories[edit]

I was filling in some gaps in the parallel line tunnel portal icons and I noticed some inconsistencies in the category names between the basic set and set u icons. For example, basic set tunnel portals are in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/parallel railways/tunnel/portal, while for set u the equivalent icons have been in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/parallel lines/tunnel to ground. To me the first style makes more sense (but ideally with 'parallel lines' instead of 'parallel railways').

Old New
Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/parallel lines/tunnel to ground Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/parallel lines/tunnel/portal
Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/parallel lines/tunnel to elevated Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/parallel lines/tunnel/portal/to elevated
Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/tunnel to ground Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/tunnel/portal
Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/tunnel to elevated Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/tunnel/portal/to elevated

Thoughts? -- Imperator3733 (talk) 03:52, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Those are known discrepancies (I thought there were even more), but I never tried to homogenize them because either version is incorrect — I suspect other people thought the same. The thing is that all of these categories need to be renamed. First of all, we are using Category:Icons for railway descriptions to host exclusively “BS icons” (i.e. diagram elements to be used with a specific set of templates), which should done at the top of Category:BSicon instead (cf. the test name of Category:BSicon/road/tunnel); second, there’s a lot of detail terms which should be discussed: That means a very wide discussion subject, on which little consensus is set — it will be an epic discussion, not unlike what happened with the standartization of colors 2 years ago. (I don’t think there will be epic disagreements, though, just that there’s a lot of ground to cover.) In view of that, the above are minor annoyances which will be dully ironed out once that general cat renaming is done. (That said, there’s no harm in going ahead with the detail renames outlined above, it will only help.) -- Tuválkin 09:22, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
I actually prefer the "tunnel to x" variants over the "portal" versions, because is is a clear description of what two sets the icons are connecting, namely the "tunnel" set and the elevated, ground (standard), etc. The icons may contain a portal, but that's not the set name and how does one have a line come out of a tunnel without a portal anyway? Lost on  Belmont 3200N1000W  (talk) 12:53, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Agree. Useddenim (talk) 19:48, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
You make a good point about the benefits of "tunnel to x". That format definitely allows for finer-grained categories (such a "cutting to ground" or "embankment to elevated"). -- Imperator3733 (talk) 01:54, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
That is a big project. I think I'm going to start coming up with a proposal for how to clean things up. I'll post it here when I have a good handle on things. -- Imperator3733 (talk) 01:54, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: User talk:CommonsDelinker/commands/Category moves should help with moving the roughly 900 categories left to Category:BSicon/. I've omitted /straight tracks and /terminus from the category tree, and changed "half width" to "half-width", but otherwise the naming should be largely the same. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
08:54, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

I suggest you apply for (or make use of) file moving rights. Along with Cat-a-lot, it will make the cat renaming effort much faster and simpler. Concerning the names, I want to insist that this general renaming, long sought and too much delayed as it is, should not be a wasted opportunity for impovements in the naming of each node of the tree: Keeping the quirks of the old cats is not a desirable feature. -- Tuválkin 12:44, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: I have file moving rights, but the limit of 3 per minute causes me to be throttled very often and it takes absolutely ages. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
14:37, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
I just moved Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set ruby‎ into Category:BSicon/railway/set ruby in one go, no issues. What are we doing differently? -- Tuválkin 16:07, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: It usually happens if I make moves more than once every 20 seconds. Since there are 950 categories to deal with it'd probably be more efficient to just get the bot to do it (and a consensus could be formulated here before sending the move commands all in one go). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
16:21, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Lost on Belmont: Are the /straight and /direction categories necessary? I suspect having /direction would be more useful than /straight, but I'm not entirely sure. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
10:25, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

We can have both. Note that an icon may be straight and have or not a direction mark (arrow), but or also have a direction mark and be not straight. -- Tuválkin 15:36, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: The reason /straight might not be necessary is that the station categories seem to assume that default is straight and not /curve. Consistency with those would help with simplifying the tree somewhat as well. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
05:01, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Plain tracks[edit]

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: I'm currently creating a bunch of new categories under BSicon/railway/, since I'm uploading a very large number of icons and don't really fancy making anyone have to recategorize all of them later. Building the category trees, I've noticed that Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set u/plain tracks doesn't really seem to do much. Should it be omitted in the new category trees (i.e. /railway → /railway/k, /railway/uw, railway/straight, etc.)? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
17:08, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

  • That cat was created by @YLSS:. I see no reason for that particular branching node in the tree. -- Tuválkin 01:18, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

three-quarter shifts[edit]

Could someone help me categorize the new 34 shift icons I uploaded? I've created some of the categories but I'm not sure where some of them (e.g.   (exhvSHI3l+l-)) might go. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
10:21, 6 August 2017 (UTC)


@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: Is the /split group of categories necessary? Basically all shift junctions are categorized into those, with the exception of these twelve (it seems a bit arbitrary and some of those might not be supposed to be in the /junctions category) and the three-quarter shifts I just uploaded, so it might be better to sort them into /shift/junction instead of /split/junction and delete the /split/junction categories. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
14:27, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

  • I agree. A split is always a shift, either symmetrical (  (SPLa)) or assymmetrical (  (SHI2gl) or   (vSHI2gl-)). With halfwith icons the matter can get murky (since half the curve could be imagined to go on slanted, as in   (STR+1)), but there’s no reason to treat the blue ones differently. -- Tuválkin 21:39, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Categorization template[edit]

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Newfraferz87, C21H22N2O2: I have created a new category template, {{BS-category}}, which utilizes Module:BSicon. This template has no parameters, unlike {{BS-color/category}}, and automatically generates description text and categories based on page title. Currently it should work on all BSicon categories except those named "Icons for…", and those containing two-, three- or four-quarter splits, 3-curves, or CPIC icons (and a few other edge cases – please report if it's broken on a correctly-named category). It should ignore the "plain tracks" categories; this is deliberate. Jc86035 (talk) 10:01, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Looks good. It’s meant to replace {{BS-color/category}}, then, since it includes its function? -- Tuválkin 21:39, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
    • @Tuvalkin: Yes, since that template uses parser functions and was incompatible with the BSicon-prefixed categories (as well as having other weird quirks which can only be reasonably dealt with in Lua). I'm gradually replacing its uses now. Jc86035 (talk) 13:25, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Divergent junctions[edit]

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Newfraferz87: Is junction/divergent (rather than just junction) a necessary category? The tunnel and elevated icons have never used this node. Jc86035 (talk) 13:22, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete. Useddenim (talk) 17:38, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep: This special case of junction is not used in the tunnel and elevated subtrees because there’s less icons to be categorized like this. (That’s not how we usually work with categories, but that’s how Commons categories are usually used: We have, f.i., Category:Tram transport in Moscow by year, because there’s many photos, but not Category:Trolleybus transport in Moscow by year, because there’s less photos — its putative contents are left undissiminated under both Category:Trolleybus transport in Moscow and Category:Transport in Moscow by year.) -- Tuválkin 18:01, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
    • @Tuvalkin: There should actually be roughly the same number for tunnel/elevated, since I filled out the two-way 90° junctions in the 31 other sets (including olive) earlier this week, but without /divergent. Since I use pywikibot now, mass category changes are relatively trivial, but I think they should still be categorized within the main category, since other junctions aren't really distinguished in similar ways (except for the W/X shifts, mentioned above, and the 45° zigzag junctions). Jc86035 (talk) 00:49, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Okay, good. So it seems that what we should decide on is whether this is indeed a special case of junction that’s useful to be set set aside in subcats or not. I think it is, but I don’t think this is really important. -- Tuválkin 01:12, 28 September 2017 (UTC)


@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: How should Icons for railway descriptions/suburban commuter service be renamed? I think "suburban commuter service" is a bit long so maybe it could be changed to "commuter rail" or "S-Bahn". Jc86035 (talk) 17:14, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Not "S-Bahn", because that is specific to German-speaking places. Perhaps "suburban services"? Useddenim (talk) 13:17, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
I think that should be fine. Jc86035 (talk) 14:00, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Why not "suburban" only? This is going to be used bewteen slashes and will show up as a breadcrumb, the shortest the better. -- Tuválkin 18:47, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
    I've changed it to "suburban" in Module:BSicon (which, incidentally, can now categorize some files). Jc86035 (talk) 04:22, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

"tunnel to elevated" and "tunnel to ground"[edit]

Should the tunnel portal categories be renamed /tunnel/portal and /elevated/tunnel/portal? /elevated/tunnel is slightly awkward but we would have to make those categories anyway to sort crossings like   (mhKRZt) (for which Module:BSicon currently generates Category:BSicon/railway/set mixed/elevated/tunnel/crossing). Jc86035 (talk) 05:47, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

  • I see nothing wrong with "/elevated/tunnel" and such. -- Tuválkin 10:57, 13 January 2018 (UTC)


@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: Should Category:Icons for railway descriptions/uw/under become BSicon/railway/uw/under? I'd like to include straight+corner and curve+corner into the new category names, but I'm not sure if it should just be BSicon/railway/uw/straight+corner/under, and not sure if   (xSTR+1) etc. would then belong in curve+corner. Jc86035 (talk) 14:45, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

  • In my option, not a problem. Things like   (xSTR+1) are curve+corner, understood as on a flat cross (or unspecified, for undetailed diagrams); curve+corner icons can be under/over but not always, and vice versa. I can have all these:
    1. BSicon/railway/*/straight+corner
    2. BSicon/railway/*/under
    3. BSicon/railway/*/straight+corner/under
with 3 having both 1 and 2 as its parents. Is this what you meant? -- Tuválkin 22:44, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: I think so, yes. Jc86035 (talk) 09:32, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Epicgenius: Should the krw categories be retained in the new tree, or should they be merged into the four-quarter shifts categories? There's not much separating them other than their naming, and even then, the standard KRW icons should probably be renamed en masse with pywikibot (perhaps KRW – the root and the category – could be kept for the "flyover" icons like   (KRWgl+lo) per   (vÜWBl)). Jc86035 (talk) 16:05, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

  • @Jc86035: I agree with possibly renaming KRW en masse. Should we rename BS2-icons to SHI2-icons as well? There should be a uniform naming system. For example, we have   (SHI1l) (one quarter) and   (SHI3l) (three quarters) but   (BS2l) (two quarters) and   (KRWl) (four quarters). epicgenius (talk) 21:34, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
  • I Symbol keep vote.svg agree: that’s what KRWs are — four-quarter shifts. -- Tuválkin 22:38, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm all for renaming the BS2 and non-flyover KRW icons (although I'm sure there will be howls of objection from DE:WP). And while we're at it, we should probably fix the mistake I introduced when I proposed the SHI root, and drop the “I” to shorten SHI1/SHI2/SHI3/SHI4 to SH1/SH2/SH3/SH4. Useddenim (talk) 01:41, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
  • I agree with all of the above — and the howling can be dampened with redirects. -- Tuválkin 15:30, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Cross-platform interchange icons[edit]

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: Module:BSicon currently categorizes XBHF icons into .../BHF/interchange (alongside regular interchange icons). Is this fine, or is an extra /cross-platform needed? I originally intended to configure the module to set /interchange/cross-platform, but it didn't work properly. I know how to fix it, but maybe keeping it as it is would be better. Jc86035 (talk) 14:46, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

  • I’d prefer separate cats for the cross-platform icons, although I would not insist on it. On the other hand, I’d insist on short, simple words to make up the breadcrumb and "cross-platform" seems too long (no better idea atm, sorry). -- Tuválkin 15:28, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Symbol keep vote.svg Agree, and why not keep the legacy name for the category: …/interchange/CPIC? Useddenim (talk) 17:36, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

  • Love it. -- Tuválkin 22:40, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
    Okay. I've recategorized most of the CPIC icons into the new category names. Jc86035 (talk) 19:01, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


@Useddenim, Tuvalkin:

  • Should   (hSTR3+4~GG) (connecting icon for   (hSTR3+4)) be categorized as a corner icon or a curve icon?
  • Should   (hv-STR2~RR) (connecting icon for   (hv-STR2)) be categorized as a corner icon or a curve icon?
  • Should   (tSTRc4~L) (renamed from tSTR3+1~R; connects to   (tSTRc2~R)) be categorized as a corner icon or a straight icon?

I'm not sure about these. The precedent is (probably) to categorize based on the geometry (e.g. for formation icons without the l prefix). Jc86035 (talk) 11:01, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Icon Category
  (hSTR3+4~GG) corner
  (hv-STR2~RR) curve
  (tSTRc4~L) not sure
maybe both?
Useddenim (talk) 13:21, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
@Useddenim:   (tSTRc4~L) can't be categorised as both "corner" and "straight" because the Category:BSicon tree has "straight+corner" and "corner" categories, but not "straight" categories. ("straight+corner" wouldn't make sense because it would be for icons with both a straight track and a corner track.) I think "corner" might make more sense, since STR+c4~L or vSTR+c4~L would presumably be categorised as uw/straight+corner. Jc86035 (talk) 16:03, 15 May 2019 (UTC)