Talk:BSicon/Colors

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Discussions moved from Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness.

Some (somewhat outdated) suggestions at Category talk:Icons for railway descriptions/other colors.

Matters to be adressed concerning colors in our icons are outlied below, with links to their dicussion, when it exists:

Lets discuss each matter under a separate heading, to make it easier to wrap it up. -- Tuválkin 11:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

moved to Category talk:Icons for railway descriptions#Color Sets (Now on this page.)

I understand that the red set is for standard rail and the blue set is for rapid transit, but what are these new color sets for? (black, green, orange, purple, the multicolored Tokyo Set) Samhuddy (talk) 02:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Using only red or blue colors in templates of metro lines in cities, where lines are always marked with color, isn't good - users say, that such templates are bad. For example, in Saint Petersburg they always mark 1st line with red color, 2nd - with blue color, 3d - with green color, 4th - with orange color, 5th - with violet color and so on. Passengers know, which color corresponds to appopriate line. So we have to make a sets of different colors to solve this problem, because common template doesn't allow to choose a color of line. Dinamik (talk) 19:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
In the first place, these icons have been created for a different reason. Their purpose was to symbolize stations, junctions and other structure of "heavy" railway tracks (later set blue was created for light rail and metro). But the usage of these icons widened up (much more then the initial intention) and by the time there are very complex track fields etc. made of railway line icons. A new kind of usage are varicolored metro line descriptions or even metro maps. --$traight-$hoota (talk) 16:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that, a couple years later, we can summarize it like this: While the two regular sets, with their huge number of icons, ready to illustrate any concievable need, are used to build detailed diagrams of railways, the other color icons, while sharing naming conventions, are used only in much simpler diagrams of services (which coincide with lines only in the simplest systems), needing typically only icons for stations and a few straights, with any additional icon being an oddity. (Examples of this contrasting diagram building: MTS lines vs. MTS network) The system however allows such oddities to be created and offers a simple way to name them (adding the color name to the equivalent red or blue icon). This approach seems to working well, and it is only its details that need to be worked out. -- Tuválkin 05:40, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Set acc?[edit]

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: It might be useful to have a legende-only set for accessible interchange stations without roundels, like   (lINT-L) for matching with   (INTACC-M). Thoughts? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
07:46, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

@Jc86035: I’m not sure what you’re proposing. A new category? Go ahead an create it. Interchange icons with a #034ea2 border instead of black? Not a good idea. Something else? Explain in more detail. Useddenim (talk) 12:49, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Station icons coloured #034ea2; i.e.   (lACC-R) etc. without the accessibility sign. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
14:34, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
  • I’m going to say I disagree, and I’m going to say why, and I’m beating myself for having been postponing bringing up this matter for so long, as it has been bugging me for years. So, we’ve had color troubles with these accessibility icons on stations and halts why? Because the sign is shown as white on a blue roundel. That clashes with the way we use colors for regular stations and halts, a roundel the same color as the line, also for disused ones, and also for interchange stations and halts, a white roundel with a thick black border. Now, why is it blue, and why does it have to be blue?
Answers: Why is it blue? It is blue because the 1st time such an icon was created the dinossaurs still roamed the Earth and BSicon creators would cobble any available SVG with   (STR) and say go (we did have really clunky, horrible designs back then). And why does it have to be blue? Simply, it doesn’t. The well known wheelchair icon has not, and needs not, any specific color. It can be of any color, and it sure can be the color of any BSicon lines we’re using. (Something white on a blue square or ractangle is a international traffic sign for information, while something white on a blue disc is for prohibition, but we need not, and probably should not, be follwoing road traffic regulations.)
Proposal: I suggest we quietly and simply change the color of the roundel from that blue to whichever line color each icon uses for HST and BHF, and change it to black for INT stations.
-- Tuválkin 15:59, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
  • @Tuvalkin: I don't mind if we do that. Would icons like   (ACC yellow) and   (extACC3+1 lime) (basically anything closer to white than dark grey) have a black wheelchair for contrast? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
    to reply to me
    16:24, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
  • I also think so, yes. The whellchair sign is small, not like the central disc of DST, which is always white. -- Tuválkin 23:38, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
  • @Tuvalkin: You mean like   (BHFA)? While we're making changes, the symbol should be mirrored to match the standard version. BTW, the reason for a #034ea2 background is, IIRC, that is the Federal Standard color for information signs.
    @Jc86035: Totally unnecessary. And of course black where needed for contrast. Useddenim (talk) 16:31, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Ah, yes,   (BHFA): I knew there was one, but couldn’t find it. I’m glad we three agree. Lets see if there’s anyone against, and which are the reasons. -- Tuválkin 23:38, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

@Sameboat, Lost on Belmont, Axpde, Newfraferz87: Any thoughts on this? (Assuming the station's shade of red won't be slightly different like in BHFA.) Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
15:02, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Getting to this a bit late. I have to disagree with the above because the blue background isn't arbitrary. The blue for ACC icons was selected to match the International Symbol of Access. The wheelchair symbol on a blue background is significant for this respect. Lost on  Belmont 3200N1000W  (talk) 02:37, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
Keep blue, as per Lost on Belmont. Useddenim (talk) 10:16, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
Keep blue, per Lost on Belmont; in addition, the blue background is occasionally useful for understanding which parts of a station are accessible. The proposed legende stations could just have an extra l prefix (i.e. llACC-R). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
10:59, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Olive green colour[edit]

@Tuvalkin, Useddenim, Maxinvestigator, Lost on Belmont: I've noticed from the upload logs that we don't seem to have a colour which matches the shade of Paris Métro line 3, #837902. Currently set f (#008000) is used for that line on ruwiki (and could probably be used for line 12 (#007852) instead). Is it worthwhile to create another icon set for it? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
08:17, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

If set golden (#D7C447) is not good enough (nor any of the others), then lets go a head a create a new one — set olive could work as a name, too. -- Tuválkin 09:26, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: Set golden is already used for line 9. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
12:14, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
Should we use X11's #808000 or just the Métro line's colour? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
12:24, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
!vote for  #808000 . Useddenim (talk) 19:10, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: How are the ex colours calculated? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
10:37, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
50% opacity of base. Useddenim (talk) 12:09, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Or is it 60%? See Talk:BSicon/Colors/Archive 2#Testing half opacity with colors. -- Tuválkin 12:20, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: Using Firefox's colour picker (with 60% on a table background) yields #B2AC64 for the Paris Métro colour and #B0B063 for the X11 colour. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
12:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
I got something in the neighbourhood of  #c0c090  for  #808000 . Useddenim (talk) 12:37, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: The method I used matches ex-pink when tested with pink (aside from what's probably a rounding error). Not sure, though. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
12:39, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
@Lost on Belmont: in case you missed it Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
14:13, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm in favor of creating new colors as needed and as reasonable, so this seems fine with me. Personally, I prefer #837902, but I don't have any particular objections to #808000 either. Lost on  Belmont 3200N1000W  (talk) 00:44, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Lost on Belmont: I will be uploading a set olive of #837902 ex #B2AC64 as well as reuploading everything in set black as #404040 ex #898989, alongside the renaming of the 90° curves and junctions from lf/rf/rg/lg to l/r/+l/+r. The ex colours made using the method I used match those generated by YLSS for the pinks to within 1256, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with them. (The solution for set black, however, does not help so much in distinguishing   (eDST black)/  (eINT black) without looking at them side by side to figure out which shade of grey is which, so it may alternately be better to change the stroke width of INTs.) Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
09:04, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

(Ignore the comment about set black. It wouldn't have worked very well with e/x INTs.) Jc86035 (talk) 15:26, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Motorways[edit]

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Newfraferz87: Is the motorway colour supposed to be #003399 or #007CC3 (British motorway signs are #0079C1, almost the same as the latter)? Some icons use the former   (SKRZ-Bo) and some the latter   (uSKRZ-Boq). See also this discussion. Jc86035 (talk) 03:26, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

I would think  #007cc3  (or even  #0079c1 ), per Bob1960evens. Useddenim (talk) 14:30, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: In addition, do you think there should be a white line between the two blue lines? Usually highway medians aren't painted white so I'd go for transparent. Jc86035 (talk) 15:25, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
✓ Agree . Useddenim (talk) 16:18, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm with Useddenim per above, wasn't really aware of the color standard (or lack of it).   ~ Newfitz Yo! 08:46, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
✓  Done Changed most of the icons to use #0079c1 . Jc86035 (talk) 10:06, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
  • I was pinged, but I have no ideas about this one. Indeed I created the   (RP2) series because back then there was this chaos of multiple incongruous and overspecific road sets, all of them incomplete to boot. -- Tuválkin 23:23, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

New color for Moscow Metro[edit]

Hi,

The official map and navigational items of Moscow Metro use color #7ED3C9 for Bolshaya Koltsevaya line (a.k.a. Third Interchange Contour), including the currently existing Kakhovskaya line. This color considerably differs from the current sets, including the "Teal" #339999 color that we currently use in templates. Can we create a new set based on the official color?

The closest color among the named ones is "Tiffany Blue" #81D8D0. However, we suspect that using its name may cause problems because it is a colour trade mark. Therefore, we will probably have to name this new set like "Robin egg blue" or "Turquoise", although these colors are a bit different.

What would you suggest? @Tuvalkin, Lost on Belmont, YLSS, Useddenim: --Michgrig (talk) 20:20, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

  • I’m not against new colors, especially if they are distinct and needed, as in the case at hand. Would   (exSTR_teal) / #82C0C0 not suffice, though? -- Tuválkin 10:53, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
  • The way I usually use BSicons (in Portuguese wikipedia articles about Portuguese rail, metro and tram lines), the detailed diagrams, which are the ones likely to include things like former and planned segments, are created only with   (STR) and   (uSTR). “Other colors” are only used for simple diagrams showing only stations and lines in use. (Compare this and that) But if that’s not the usage you need, then you’ll need a new separate color with its own “ex” variant shade. But icons of that new color wiill either way look very similar to  ex teal ; that will cause problems if/when teal is used for Moscow diagrams. -- Tuválkin 12:13, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Tuválkin, I gave you the link to the template whose icons we are discussing. This is the line under construction. One of its segments is already in operation; another one is going to be opened in Feb-March; the entire line will be complete in several years. And because we usually display prospective segments on diagrams, we do need a separate color with its own "ex" variant. Besides, according to prospective maps (https://imgur.com/Qzl1JM3), Moscow authorities are not planning lines of the teal color. --Michgrig (talk) 13:13, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Well, then: Since there is need for unused track icons and there’s no risk of confusion, lets go ahead and have a new color. -- Tuválkin 11:25, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
  • A semi-transparent ex- ex teal  is quite close to  powderblue , so why not exexteal or ex2teal? Useddenim (talk) 16:52, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Useddenim, colors that you suggest are quite close to what we need. But wouldn't having "exteal" and "ex2teal" while all other colors are names "color" and "ex_color" confuse editors? This is quite different from what many people are already used to. --Michgrig (talk) 23:08, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
  •   (STR teal)  (exSTR teal)  (exSTR exteal). Any problems? Useddenim (talk) 13:11, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
  • The only problem here is inconsistency with all other sets, regarding names of colors. Maybe we could call this color exteal? Then it would be like other sets - say, STR exteal and exSTR exteal. --Michgrig (talk) 14:40, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
regular ex
teal   (STR teal)   (exSTR teal)
exteal   (exSTR teal)
=
  (STR exteal)
  (exSTR exteal)
Useddenim (talk) 23:26, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Useddenim, just to be absolutelty sure. Do you mean that we can create file redirects from "XXX exteal" to "exXXX teal" and use these redirects? --Michgrig (talk) 08:25, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Yes (although I'd like to get a second opinion before actually going ahead). Useddenim (talk) 11:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Useddenim: Tuvalkin supported your idea. Can it be considered as a second opinion? :) --Michgrig (talk) 12:00, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Yes, that's good enough for me. Happy iconing. Useddenim (talk) 23:44, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
  • (Edit conflict) Well, I must say that I disliked the idea at first, but Useddenim spun it the right way (as he often does) and this naming scheme seems to be both productive and devoided of ambiguity. Symbol keep vote.svg  I like it ! -- Tuválkin 11:25, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

@Useddenim: I've re-generated the ex-ex-teal colour in a way closer to how YLSS did it in 2013, although the grey table background is now mixed in twice instead of once. Jc86035 (talk) 11:58, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

  • Jc86035, could you please explicitly specify the code for the ex-ex-teal color that we should use? --Michgrig (talk) 15:11, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
    @Michgrig: Firefox said it was #B1D7D7. Jc86035 (talk) 15:16, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
    Jc86035, is this ex-ex-teal? Are you sure? It seems like ex-teal actually. Google Chrome told me these are #82C0C0 for exteal and #b0e0e6 for exexteal. --Michgrig (talk) 15:39, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
    @Michgrig: Did you calculate this using a grey table background (RDTs use #EFEFEF I think) and 0.6 opacity? (I used the table on Talk:BSicon/Colors/Archive 2, and I did this for the set olive colour as well.) B1D7D7 is definitely much closer to B0E0E6 than to 82C0C0. Note that for some reason the RGBs in the PNG might differ from the actual RGBs in the SVG source depending on browser. Jc86035 (talk) 15:45, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
    1. The background colour should be  #f9f9f9  (not  #efefef ).
    2. Because of the calculation/generation variations, I deliberately chose the standard web colour  powderblue  (#b0e0e6) as “close enough”. Useddenim (talk) 16:06, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
    @Useddenim: I haven't tried using Chrome but from YLSS's calculations four years ago the difference shouldn't be very significant (#B0E0E6 is definitely visibly different from the colour shown when changing ex-teal to 0.6 opacity with both grey and white background, though). However, I might have accidentally used #f8f9fa because of the MediaWiki colour changes a while ago so it might need to be re-done. Jc86035 (talk) 16:33, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
    Jc86035, no, I just opened an SVG file in my browser and looked for the color in the page code. --Michgrig (talk) 16:31, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
    Jc86035, the table here also says that the code for exteal is #82C0C0.
    So guys, can the matter be considered settled? exteal color is #82C0C0 and exexteal color is #b0e0e6. Agree? --Michgrig (talk) 21:21, 9 February 2018 (UTC)


Sample RDT
Ex-exteal sample map.svg

upper segment is  powderblue 
middle segment is  ex teal 
bottom segment is  b1d6d6 

However, after looking at this example, I agree that  b1d7d7  should be the correct colour. Useddenim (talk) 15:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

  • Useddenim, should be the correct color for exexteal, right? --Michgrig (talk) 21:30, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
    @Michgrig, Useddenim: With background colour f9f9f9 (previously was f8f9fa) I get #B1D6D6. I'll update the file. Jc86035 (talk) 13:57, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
    @Useddenim:, could you please confirm? --Michgrig (talk) 15:44, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
    The difference between #b1d6d6 and #b1d7d7 is negligible, so I have no objection. Useddenim (talk) 21:52, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Another color for Moscow Metro[edit]

Hi again, For another line, we need another ex-color. As the main color, we plan to use exruby. Please advice us, what should be the ex-color? --Michgrig (talk) 11:51, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I get a value of  #df8db7  for ex-exruby (although that may not be 100% correct). Useddenim (talk) 20:51, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
Jc86035, could you please confirm? --Michgrig (talk) 15:59, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
@Michgrig, Useddenim: I got  #E89FC4 . Jc86035 (talk) 16:02, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
My color picker gives inconsistent results when switching between applications, but the lighter #e89fc4 looks more accurate to me. Useddenim (talk) 21:54, 13 February 2018 (UTC)