Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Archive 11

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Archive 5 Archive 9 Archive 10 Archive 11

Parallel BHF legend

  (lBHF)   (lvBHF)
  (lBHF-)   (lvBHF-)
  (lvBHFf)
  (lBHFf)   (lvBHFff)

Any thoughts? Useddenim (talk) 11:33, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

As above, I would support usage of bracket notation (i.e.   (l-(vBHF)),   (lv-(ACC-))) as well as the creation of a new group of suffixes, probably -f/-g, to indicate that an object is moved forward (i.e.   (lvNULf-f),   (uABZg+1-g)), to separate those icons   (lHSTf) from the arrows   (HSTf) (and additionally -F/-G for elevated formations and the SKRZ icons, where -L/-R would not work). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
12:43, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Road crossing with station

As with   (hBHFa+AKRZo ochre) (currently incorrectly named due to the AKRZ), I think   (uhBHFaeq+vRP1) needs a rename, partly since it should be possible to name it with one root, and also because the current name's order implies the road is above the station. Would uhSTBHF-G1vaeq or uSTBHF-G1voq (STBHF derived from SKRZ/TBHF) work for the latter? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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16:30, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Curve crossings

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: Should the icons in this category, e.g.   (KRZr-KRZ+ru), be renamed to e.g. STR+r-STRro? The current order of some of their names is incorrect, and the name suggests BSicon .svgBSicon STRr-.svgBSicon STR.svgBSicon -BRIDGEq.svgBSicon -STR+r.svgBSicon vSTRq.svg . Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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09:41, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Why not STR+ru-STRro? --C21H22N2O2 | talk | de.en 11:56, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind if that were done instead. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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11:59, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
What are you meaning with this? --C21H22N2O2 | talk | de.en 17:58, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I would be fine with either STR+ru-STRro or STR+r-STRro.
If no one else comments, I guess they could be renamed anyway since most of them are already named incorrectly. Jc86035 (talk) 09:19, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

"+gr"

Useddenim, why   (SPLal+gr) and not vSPLal-? +gr suggests that the split is from both g and r, like   (ABZ2+gr) (and so the geometry would be something like BSicon .svgBSicon SPLaq.svgBSicon SPLal.svg ). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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10:53, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

@Jc86035: I ran through several naming possibilities, and this seemed the best. I rejected your suggestion because of   (vSPLa): BSicon .svgBSicon SHI1+r.svgBSicon vSHI1r.svg (vSPLa-) /BSicon .svgBSicon SHI1+l.svgBSicon vSHI1l.svg (v-SPLa) . I had also considered   (SPLal+g-)/  (SPLal+-g), but didn't like the +- combination (not to forget the -ROOT- convention used for single parallel lines across); however, if you think that it would be better, go ahead and move the four dozen files… Useddenim (talk) 12:42, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim:   (vSPLa-) doesn't look like that, so I don't think that's a problem. In any case the above icon would be better named vSPLa-SHI1r. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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13:12, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Besides, your example (BSicon .svgBSicon SPLaq.svgBSicon SPLal.svg ) is actually   (vÜSTl+gr). Useddenim (talk) 13:18, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Using that naming structure, would it then make sense to rename   (vÜSTelr) to vÜST2h3h (or a different suffix, if it's replaced with something else)? This might be somewhat problematic, though, since vÜSTr+1 could mean either a crossing from r to 1, or a crossing from f to 1 with only the right crossing track like   (vÜSTr3+1). Unless the meaning of l and r in this context is changed then there will be edge cases where the naming is ambiguous. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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13:35, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
I think you just made the case for different roots for a single crossover (  (vÜSTl)/  (vÜSTr) and a double crossover (  (vÜST). So which one keeps ÜST and which one changes? Useddenim (talk) 13:48, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Upon further thought, I would suggest keeping   (vÜST) (T = two) and use   (vÜS1) for singles, eg   (vÜS1l)/  (vÜS1r), etc. Useddenim (talk) 13:56, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Perhaps a different three letters from "Überleitstelle"? Seems a bit arbitrary to use a number. Tuvalkin and Lost on Belmont, any thoughts? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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14:31, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
ÜLS (or is it ÜLT?) works for me. Useddenim (talk) 14:37, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim:   (vSTRegr) could be renamed under this rule as vÜSTlfr, but then this leaves   (vSTReglr) which couldn't be renamed to this root.
Possibly an apostrophe could be used to distinguish the icons with naming conflicts? Jc86035 (talk) 10:06, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Um, didn’t think to check (the existing)   (vSPLa-)/  (v-SPLa); so yes, you’re right,   (SPLal+gr)vSPLal- etc. Useddenim (talk) 13:26, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Parallel stations

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: How should   (vfHST-fexHST2) be distinguished from   (fvHST-exHST)? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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11:25, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

  • The first one could be fvHST-exHST and the second one fvHST-L-exHST-R. -- C21H22N2O2 (V • T • E) 12:19, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
@C21H22N2O2: Problem with that is there are a lot of other icons which would be affected by this. Syntactically it's more correct I suppose but it would be another several hundred (thousand?) renames. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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12:35, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
  • I suggest:
  •   (fvHST-exHST) (no change), based on f &   (vHST-exHST)
  •   (fvHST-+fexv-HST), using the generic + to overlay otherwise independent icons   (vHST-) and   (exv-HST)
-- Tuválkin 21:56, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Symbol keep vote.svg  Agree with Tuvalkin's proposal. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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09:55, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

✓ 

Done

Jc86035 (talk) 09:58, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Remaining GRENZE to be renamed ZOLL

Separated from Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness#ZOLL

Aside: should the icons   (HGRENZEr) and   (KGRENZEl) be merged into a single GRENZEaq, like   (ENDEaq)? Likewise for   (HGRENZEl) and   (KGRENZEr).   ~ Newfitz Yo! 14:05, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

  • @Newfraferz87: Probably better to just rename them to use ZOLL, as GRENZE was replaced by it and GRZ as far as I'm aware. I did this while clearing out the motorways and vBRÜCKEs; e.g.   (RBoWq+ZOLL) and   (vBRÜCKE1+ZOLL). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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    16:02, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
  • In my opinion, and to match what has been done (how did these four escape?), the renaming should be:
old name new name
(1st proposal)
new name
(later suggestion)
  (HGRENZEr)   (ZOLLaq)   (KZOLLaq)
  (KGRENZEl)
  (HGRENZEl)   (ZOLLeq)   (KZOLLeq)
  (KGRENZEr)
-- Tuválkin 23:57, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Agree.—or should they be KZOLL? BTW, the H (for Horizontal) prefix should have been eliminated long ago. Useddenim (talk) 03:51, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I think they should be KZOLL. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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    14:48, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Yes, KZOLL is the way to go, akin to KBHF. Sorry for overlooking it. -- Tuválkin 21:31, 18 June 2017 (UTC)::
  • I'm not sure if the K prefix reasoning works in this case (i.e. for non-stations) -- consider   (ENDEaq), to which it wasn't named as KENDEaq, or   (CONTgq) which doesn't use K either.   ~ Newfitz Yo! 04:29, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg  Support In this case ENDE should be KSTR, but I don't know if this is necessary. KZOLL is okay. -- C21H22N2O2 (V • T • E) 05:29, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
  • KSTR is a line without any other feature: compare   (KSTRa) with   (ENDEa). Useddenim (talk) 12:23, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
  • There's   (ENDExaq) which wouldn't fit the KSTR naming scheme.   ~ Newfitz Yo! 05:57, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Ah, ok. -- C21H22N2O2 (V • T • E) 18:56, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Support KZOLL. Lost on  Belmont 3200N1000W  (talk) 22:34, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

@Lost on Belmont, Useddenim, C21H22N2O2, Newfraferz87, Tuvalkin: ✓ 

Done

; deletion discussion for the two HGRENZE icons is here. Jc86035 (talk) 09:56, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

legende ACCs

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Newfraferz87:   (llACC-R) or   (lACCx-R)? Jc86035 (talk) 12:44, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't like the ll prefix (which has the possibility of confusion with the already-existing LL prefix for interrupted lines), which is why I chose the x suffix (for minor feature out of use). (Besides which, you never added it to the catalog, so how are we to know that   (llACC-R) even existed?) Useddenim (talk) 13:47, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Sorry for not adding them to the catalogue (I wasn't aware that every new icon was supposed to go in it). I don't think it would be confused with LL since one is for stations only and the other is for tracks only, although I think one of llACC/lACCx could be used for just the wheelchair and the other could be used for just the station circle. Jc86035 (talk) 15:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

llACC icons

moved from Talk:BSicon

I couldn't see any differences between   (llACC) and   (ulBHF) until I read the source. I don't think that a "normal" user can tell apart them. If we need an icon who shows a station who had disability access in past, it should show a crossed wheelchair, e. g.   (BHFxA) (should get renamed or replaced). I also uploaded a test icon   (llACC2), how is it? -- C21H22N2O2 /talk/lab/de/en 11:31, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

@C21H22N2O2: Without these it would be hard to make   (llACC-L) +   (lACC-M) +   (llACC-R), unlike with   (lINTACC-M), which can connect to   (lINT-L) and other regular INTs.   (llACC) is arguably not as useful though (unless it's being used to cover another wheelchair). Jc86035 (talk) 16:18, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
@Jc86035: But the   (llACC)/  (ulBHF)-problem isn't solved. They're too similar that a normal wikipedia reader can tell apart them. -- C21H22N2O2 /talk/lab/de/en 17:56, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
@C21H22N2O2: The llACC/lACCx icons aren't supposed to be used without a wheelchair somewhere in the icon, so I don't think this is an issue. Jc86035 (talk) 04:02, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Ah, there are only used in overlays like   (lACC-L) +   (lACC-R)! But why not remove all icons like   (lACC) and replace them by overlaying a white wheelchair like   (lACC2)? -- C21H22N2O2 /talk/lab/de/en 09:19, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
@C21H22N2O2: This would be pointless since every wheelchair is supposed to be accompanied by that shade of blue. The wheelchair-only icon could be useful in some situations though (e.g. over   (llvACC-L) connected to a non-ACC station). Useddenim, do you think   (lACC2) could be renamed to   (llACC) or lACCx after all of the llACC/lACCx icons are renamed/redirected to the other group of icons? Jc86035 (talk) 12:27, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Not a problem, as there are only 16 icons—including duplicate images— in the group. But we still need to settle on which root to use. Tuvalkin? Sameboat? Useddenim (talk) 13:20, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Which root? Either ABHF or ACC? I’d go with the former, as we can also have AHST. (As for the color conundrum, though off the scope of this page, I already stated my opinion: The background doesnt need to be blue. We can live with white or black pictogram on whatever color.) -- Tuválkin 18:35, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Isn't ABHF for Azweigbahnhöfe like   (ABHFr+r)? -- C21H22N2O2 /talk/lab/de/en 19:13, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
  • You’re right. But wasn’t there an uppercare prefix for the wheelchair icon? -- Tuválkin 21:19, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
I don't know one. The first icon only with a wheelchair on blank ground was uploaded by me yesterday and I used the ACC root to name it. Any ideas? -- C21H22N2O2 /talk/lab/de/en 21:26, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin, C21H22N2O2: The currently existing ones are   (llACC) and   (lACCx) (this is, to clarify, concerning prefix/suffix options). I would prefer using those two, or another suitable suffix combination, rather than creating a new root. Jc86035 (talk) 07:46, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, C21H22N2O2, Newfraferz87: If no one comments, I would personally prefer using lACCx for the icons without wheelchairs, similar to how   (INT-xR) has the INT stripped away with only a BHF.   (lACC2) could become llACC. Jc86035 (talk) 11:38, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Symbol keep vote.svg  Agree . Useddenim (talk) 14:48, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

More things

(@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Sameboat, Lost on Belmont, Axpde: Pings here so I don't do them twice on this page. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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18:22, 12 April 2017 (UTC))

  • What followed was then split into four H3 sections, but this (needless) threading is preventing some to be archoved till the last one is closed. Changing those to H2 now. -- Tuválkin 18:17, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

The north arrows

Should the north arrows   (numN000) be renamed NORTH, NORTH045 etc.? They're not really numbers/letters, and it would help with reducing/deprecating the num prefix, due to the not-capital-letters thing (and also since all other nums are replaceable in {{Routemap}} with real text). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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18:22, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

  • I Symbol keep vote.svg  agree with the proposed renaming. -- Tuválkin 17:07, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
  • I'd suggest using NOR as a root. Useddenim (talk) 00:35, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
    • @Useddenim: I've never seen it abbreviated as "NOR", although N could be used if you wanted it to be shorter. Jc86035 (talk) 01:24, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
      • NOR as in NORth (en), NORden (de), NORd (fr/it), НОРд (ru), NORte (es), etc. Useddenim (talk) 21:12, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
  • What about a compound root of DIR+N (DIRN000)? -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 01:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
    • @Sameboat: No objection; could be used to allow for something like DIRE090 or even DIR北000 as well if someone wanted to make those. Jc86035 (talk) 14:03, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

HUBs

@Jc86035: How do you plan to resolve this conflict?

  (HUBl)   (HUBlf)HUBl+g
  (HUB+l)   (HUBrg)HUBf+l
  (HUBr)   (HUBrf)HUBr+g
  (HUB+r)   (HUBlg)HUBf+r

Useddenim (talk) 12:18, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim: You could do something like you did with   (lGRZ2m3) I think (HUBm+lf and not HUBlmf per above section?), or just not do anything and leave it to someone else down the line who wants to fix it. In any case the HUBs use all sorts of nonstandard naming like using the s, t and x suffixes in different ways. Jc86035 (talk) 12:32, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

TEEs and TBHFs

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Newfraferz87: Should the e/x TEEs have their colours swapped? Compare   (xKRZ) and   (xTEEe). In addition, if the TEEs and TBHFs use the same naming structure as KRZs, would TBHFaq/…axq/e…aq/x…aq/ex…aq/ex…axq be BSicon .svgBSicon KSTRaq.svgBSicon BHF.svg  BSicon .svgBSicon KSTRaq.svgBSicon xBHF.svg  BSicon .svgBSicon KSTRaq.svgBSicon eBHF.svg  BSicon .svgBSicon exKSTRaq.svgBSicon BHF.svg  BSicon .svgBSicon exKSTRaq.svgBSicon eBHF.svg  BSicon .svgBSicon exKSTRaq.svgBSicon exBHF.svg  (based on rotating   (TBHFa) etc.)? Jc86035 (talk) 10:37, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

No. For   (xKRZ) the primary line is  , while for   (xTEEe) the primary line is  . Useddenim (talk) 00:42, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: Shouldn't   (xTEEa) match   (xTBHFa) as well? Should the TEEs be the only icon group where the transverse line is by default primary? I think for consistency's sake it would be better to swap the colours. Jc86035 (talk) 04:07, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
I do everything I can to avoid using ⊤ TBHF icons. However, it's my understanding that a through (i.e. edge to opposite edge) line takes precedence. Useddenim (talk) 12:04, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
There was a discussion about   (eABZ2+4g) or something like that, so this could plausibly follow that consensus. Should   (xTBHFa) then be TBHFax (-xa is used by   (TBHFxaq))? Jc86035 (talk) 12:09, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
  (xTBHFaq) and   (TBHFxaq) looks like a bad naming conflict to me. I have half a mind to keep the TBHF root for only X-junctions and use TEE+BHF, but that would create a new level of trouble with existing icons.   ~ Newfitz Yo! 12:20, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
@Newfraferz87: I actually renamed the -xaq icon from   (BHF+TEEr+xl) per § KBHFs (the TEE part would now be TEExaq, I think), but there aren't any naming conflicts since x can be placed before and after a/e, per KRZ rule that crossing geometry-related suffixes precede others and per ENDExa. Jc86035 (talk) 12:30, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim: Note also   (uextTBHFte), uploaded last year by Tuvalkin. I'm still not sure if adding e should mean e and x are swapped. (This would probably be renamed to either uextTBHFet or uetTBHFext.) Jc86035 (talk) 11:58, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Continuation curves

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: Could this be done for consistency, seeing as most other icons use + for point-to-point lines (e.g.   (CONT3+g))?

Current Proposed
  (CONTlf) CONTf+l
  (CONTlg) CONTg+l
  (CONTrf) CONTf+r
  (CONTrg) CONTg+r
  (CONTfl) CONTl+f
  (CONTgl) CONTl+g
  (CONTfr) CONTr+f
  (CONTgr) CONTr+g

Jc86035 (talk) 11:52, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

  • I don’t disSymbol keep vote.svg  agree . -- Tuválkin 12:15, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

✓ 

Done

(and redone with second suffix of each icon swapped after I realized the original names had incorrect suffixes). Jc86035 (talk) 02:10, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Duplicate move requests

These files were moved on 7 September by Jc86035 (talk · contribs) citing discussion here. Rowan03 (talk · contribs) is requesting they be moved again. I moved one of them and added "2" because his original request ended with an apostrophe, but I declined the other requests when I saw they had recently been moved following a discussion. He requested another move request, wanting to swap file names apparently. I don't know what any of the titles mean but please resolve this here and come to a consensus as to what they should be named before additional requests are made. Thank you. Wikimandia (talk) 01:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

@Wikimandia: Fixed. The original titles were incorrect (BSicons' left and right are relative to going down the page, not to the viewer) and I didn't catch this in moving the files. Fortunately they aren't actually used so I just swapped the contents of the files to avoid having to fix redirects and do a round-robin page move. Jc86035 (talk) 01:44, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
Awesome, thank you so much! Wikimandia (talk) 01:45, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

ABZ and STR icons

Could we rename   (ABZlf),   (ABZlg),   (ABZrf) and   (ABZrg) (plus all variants) to the expected ABZgl, ABZg+r, ABZgr and ABZg+l, since there aren't any conflicts preventing the moves? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
18:22, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Symbol strong support vote.svg  Strong support ! If necessary we can use a bot so it goes faster. --C21H22N2O2lovesBSFor me!From me! 06:43, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
Plus the curves   (STRlf),   (STRlg),   (STRrf) and   (STRrg) to STRl, STR+r, STRr and STR+l. STRl and STRr are currently existing, but they're only redirects to   (STRfq) and   (STRgq). --C21H22N2O2lovesBSFor me!From me! 06:48, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@C21H22N2O2: JJMC89 bot has replaced all the redirects on the English Wikipedia already, but it's only replacing BSicon names there so far so it might take a bit more time for the curves since the redirects are used a lot (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8). Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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10:02, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@Jc86035: I believe we have enough time, or is that not correct? --C21H22N2O2lovesBSFor me!From me! 10:12, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@Jc86035: But we can rename the curves and junctions now and then the bot does his work, right? --C21H22N2O2lovesBSFor me!From me! 10:15, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@C21H22N2O2: No, because the redirects are still in use and they aren't automatically changed by CommonsDelinker or anything (the bot only fixes templates on enwiki so far). If we were to delete the redirects and move the curves over without replacing usage first then a lot of pages would show the wrong images. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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@Jc86035: Ok, that means that we have to fix all usages of STRl and STRr before we rename them to the curves. But the six others we can rename now, because they aren't redirects to other icons. --C21H22N2O2lovesBSFor me!From me! 11:15, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@C21H22N2O2: I think it's best not to rename half of the curves before the others… probably best to keep it consistent within each group. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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11:19, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@Jc86035, Axpde: Ok, so we need some bots to do the first part. I suggest that Axpde and I do the job at de:WP and the others ... don't know. We'll find a solution. --C21H22N2O2lovesBSFor me!From me! 11:24, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
Pinging JJMC89. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
11:25, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
Symbol strong support vote.svg  Strong support ... although it will confuse legions of users, but IMHO Bernina made just one mistake in his template: his Fahrtrichtung ("f") vs. Gegenrichtung ("g") concept :-( a×pdeHello! 09:38, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
The f/fq/g/gq prefixes are good, but they shouldn't be confounded with the a/l/e/r prefixes. IMHO we've to make a clear border between these both prefix groups. And for the confused users we can use a non-confused bot... --C21H22N2O2lovesBSFor me!From me! 09:58, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg  Support : Long overdue. -- Tuválkin 10:01, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

@Jc86035: ✓

OK

, I think at de:WP is all clear, only my bot request or the associated archive are using this icon. --C21H22N2O2lovesBSFor me!From me! 19:03, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

@C21H22N2O2: It's probably still better to get a bot running on dewiki, or we'll be stuck with the newly-created redirects forever, it'll be confusing for new editors to have to deal with multiple icon names for the same thing, and we won't be able to repurpose the redirects if we need to. I think JJMC89 is handling that though. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
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09:41, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
@Jc86035: I don't think that all is clear, I know it. I've checked the WhatLinksHere (in German: Linkliste) and you can do that too: STRl, STRr, exSTRl, exSTRr, uSTRl, uSTRr, uexSTRl, uexSTRr. Ok? -- C21H22N2O2 (V • T • E) 10:17, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
I think it's fine? Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
10:35, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, it's fine ;) OK, I've to admit that i've used these icons on one of my subpages on de:WP, but with them I want the new version. To sum up: Houston, all OK here in Germany, how is it with other countries? -- C21H22N2O2 (V • T • E) 05:53, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

@C21H22N2O2, Axpde, Useddenim, Tuvalkin: JJMC89 has begun implementing the replacement script on several wikis, including the German, Chinese, Spanish and French Wikipedias. There are about 50 of them to do, but hopefully it'll be done soon so the above icons (and others) can be renamed. I am unable to vote on wikis (due to low edit count) where bots require consensus, but it may be possible for you to do so. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
16:57, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

@C21H22N2O2, Axpde, Useddenim, Tuvalkin: I have nominated almost all of the problematic redirects for deletion here. The last eight (global usage linked above) are still used on some wikis and will have to wait a little bit longer. If pywikibot's throttle gets fixed (currently it keeps hitting the Commons limit of 8/minute) I will do all of the file moves semi-automatically. Jc86035 (talk) 11:52, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

@C21H22N2O2, Axpde, Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Newfraferz87: Last eight are now up for deletion, so if all goes well I will be doing a lot of page moves soon. Jc86035 (talk) 16:29, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

@C21H22N2O2, Axpde, Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Newfraferz87: @Lost on Belmont, Sameboat: ✓ 

Done

with almost all of them. Remaining: CPIC and GRZ icons (not touching them yet since they're a mess),   (BHFlf!) etc. (needs redirect deletion),   (RP4r) etc. (see this section),   (KBFrg) etc. (not sure how to rename them),   (WDOCKSlf) etc. (conflict with   (WDOCKSl)),   (dWDOCKSs+lf) etc. (not sure how to rename them),   (fWBANKllf) etc. (not sure how to rename them),   (uABZrff) etc. (might need redirect deletion),   (WWECHSELlf) etc. (not sure how to rename them),   (Tlf) etc. (nonstandard, some icons use Cyrillic Т), and a few others. Jc86035 (talk) 16:12, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

  • @Jc86035: All these special cases need a separate analysis, even when/if renaming them into a better, more homogenous way turn out to be swift and simple. Since the bulk renaming is done, this section should be close and allowed to be archived — also to enable stable reference of it in those and other discussions. -- Tuválkin 16:32, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
  • @Jc86035: thanks for you efforts but I'd say let those water "BS"icons untouched, it's not of our concern ;-) a×pdeHello! 17:07, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Cutting to tunnel transitions

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin: I have renamed most of the *CC icons (the enwiki catalogue needs updating), but I didn't realize that the CBHFCC icons would be problematic since e.g.   (tCSTRa) shows the end of a tunnel, as opposed to   (htSTRa) showing the start of one.

  • Should   (tCSTRea)/  (tCSTRae) (plus variants) be renamed to teCSTRa/taCSTRe (or tCaSTRe/tCeSTRa)? The usage of ae and ea, of course, conflicts with   (tSTRea) and similar.
  • None of the CBHFCC icons are actually in use, having been created randomly by 京市. Should they be re-renamed from *eaq to *aeq, or should I just upload the correct shape (with the cutting on both sides) without renaming them?
  •   (uextCSTRea-Rq) and others uploaded by Xeror are out of sync with the other tunnel portals uploaded by Useddenim. Should they be re-renamed from *eaq to *aeq as well?

Jc86035 (talk) 07:42, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Suffix reuse

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, C21H22N2O2, Newfraferz87:   (RP4r),   (RP2r) and   (RP1r) (roundabouts) are currently blocking page moves for   (RP4rf),   (RP2rf) and   (RP1rf) (90° curves). I did not notice this so all of the others have been renamed (I used pywikibot so they were all done in one go). Should the roundabouts be renamed? Jc86035 (talk) 15:59, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Symbol strong support vote.svg  Strong support Which suffix would be well for them? rb? -- C21H22N2O2 /talk/lab/de/en 16:23, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
  • @C21H22N2O2: Just b would work (I think two letters is unnecessary). Jc86035 (talk) 16:26, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Civilspanaren used r (from "roundabout"?) back when these road icons were meant to be something different than just a new “set light-grey-with-white-lane-lines”, but now it really needs to be changed. Too bad that o and x have already meanings, and b is not really free for use, although it is a prefix. Now, some ideas:
d + STR+l
BSicon d.svg
d + KSTRe
BSicon d.svg
STR+r
d + STRl
BSicon d.svg
d + KSTRa
BSicon d.svg
STRr
BSicon .svg BSicon .svg
d + RP2rns
BSicon d.svg
d
  • Thinking in broader terms, though, what we have here is a kind of crossing/merging of genric “lines” not unlike what we name as, say,   (ABZ),   (WSL), or   (ÜST). This suggests that what we need here is not a new suffix, but a new root name!
  • (Of course that would clash with current naming of these road icons, where, according to the original naming idea, the root ID determines the type of road while prefixes and sufixes denote geometry and topology. So, either we keep these road icon names as a separate paradigm, or we homogenize them all. The series   (SKRZ-G) shows that a hybrid naming scheme, if properly implemented, can be successful, however.)
  • If we think that it would be useful to have this geometry/topology in a single icon for any regular line/track icon, not only for these road oddities, (see diagram) then we should find a new root ID for these icons.
-- Tuválkin 18:37, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
What about using D as a suffix (RP#D a/e/l/r), for the (visual) similarity to   (DST)? Useddenim (talk) 19:15, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
The root structure is fine, but why not RP#RB? -- C21H22N2O2 /talk/lab/de/en 19:47, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
@C21H22N2O2: I would avoid using both capital B and capital R due to   (RB) (as with RA, D, E, G, M, P, R and Y). One letter might be fine. Jc86035 (talk) 02:58, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: I'd use d since it's unused and not a valid suffix without +. D is a suffix already   (DKRZD), so it should probably be avoided here. If there's no objection I'll rename them at some point. Jc86035 (talk) 08:07, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
@Jc86035: RP#d would be fine. Useddenim (talk) 11:28, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
  • My opinion is that you can change to any suffix that suits, just it works with other icons. --Civilspanaren (talk) 07:13, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Water

@Useddenim: Since there's no WDOCKS-L, shouldn't   (WDOCKS-Le) etc. be named based on   (WDOCKSe) and therefore be WDOCKSe-R [right side], like   (lhSTRe-R)? Jc86035 (talk) 11:22, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes. Useddenim (talk) 10:05, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
✓  Done Jc86035 (talk) 12:38, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Junction icons

@Axpde: 45° junctions follow the same conventions as those with the point of the junction at f or g, just not in the way that you think they do. Jc86035 (talk) 06:42, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

  (ABZr+12)   (ABZ23)   (ABZl+34)   (ABZ+14)
  (ABZr+1f)   (ABZr+2g)   (ABZ2r)   (ABZ3l)   (ABZl+3g)   (ABZl+4f)   (ABZ+4l)   (ABZ+1r)
  (ABZr+1g)   (ABZr+2f)   (ABZ2l)   (ABZ3r)   (ABZl+3f)   (ABZl+4g)   (ABZ+4r)   (ABZ+1l)
  (ABZ3+1g)   (ABZ4+2f)   (ABZ4+2l)   (ABZ1+3r)   (ABZ1+3f)   (ABZ2+4g)   (ABZ2+4r)   (ABZ3+1l)
  (ABZ4+fl)   (ABZ1+fr)   (ABZ2+gr)   (ABZ3+gl)

WSL

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Axpde, Vunz: Since there are now a bunch of weirdly named WSLs uploaded by 蘭斯特 like   (WSLr+l+l), and since the existing system is also a bit inconsistent, should the WSL naming conventions be changed? Jc86035 (talk) 12:37, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Current Proposed (Jc86035) Proposed (Axpde)
  (WSLg+l) etc. ✓ Fine ✓ OK
  (WSLe) etc. ✓ Fine ✓ OK
  (WSLr+r) etc.   (WSLeq) (based on   (vWSLeq)) ✓ OK
  (WSLqr) etc.   (WSLglq) ✓ OK
  (WSLq+r) etc.   (WSLgrq) ✓ OK
  (WSLql) etc.   (WSLg+lq) ✓ OK
  (WSLq+l) etc.   (WSLg+rq) ✓ OK
  (WSLr) etc.   (WSLlq) ✓ OK
  (WSLa+l) etc.
  (WSLel) etc.
  (WSL+l)
  (WSLl) (after targets are renamed and replaced)
✓ OK
  (WSLr+l+l) etc.   (WSLge) (based on   (vWSLge))   (WSLge)
  (eWSLgcc) etc.   (exWSLga)   (exWSLga)
  (uWSfd) etc.   (uWSLgaq)   (uWSLql+l)
  • I introduced most of those icons and named them very consistently! No need to rename them at all! a×pdeHello! 12:51, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
@Axpde: We can't use …ql+l for   (uWSfd), because following   (uexWSLg+lr), either that would be one loop on each side, or it would be impossible to have an unfilled   (uexWWPr)canal icons are exempt from logic at this point in time because of the naming conflict. If we use q as a 90° anticlockwise rotation of the whole icon, then we may as well rename all the others to use q that way where logical and appropriate. Jc86035 (talk) 15:19, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol strong support vote.svg  Strong support , the proposed names are compatible with the current system, so I wonder why they aren't named like this. -- C21H22N2O2 /talk/lab/de/en 13:04, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg  Agree ,Sorry,I don't notice the rules,other like there also,I agree to rename this.~Zh-N、En-2 蘭斯特 (talk) 13:44, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol strong support vote.svg  Strong support Good proposal. Vunz (talk) 14:09, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg  Support : Good to see q used in this simple and productive manner. -- Tuválkin 16:20, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Symbol strong support vote.svg  Strong support Why can't we have this kind of consensus all the time? Useddenim (talk) 19:21, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

@Useddenim, Tuvalkin, Vunz, C21H22N2O2, 蘭斯特: ✓ 

Done

(renamed 81 files; others will follow after replacement). Further to the above, could we rename the double-width WSLs as well? (I'm not entirely sure that the existing vWSLg(+)?[lr] files are named correctly – I would have swapped l and r in the names – but they make sense. It's possible to round-robin-swap the file names and have them automatically replaced by JJMC89 bot now, though, so it's not an issue if they should be changed as well.) Jc86035 (talk) 12:02, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Current Proposed Notes
  (bvWSL-BS2+r) etc. bvvWSLg+l (or bvvWSLg+r) like   (vWSLg+l)
  (uebSHI2+r+WSLe) uebvvWSLgr (or …gl) like   (evWSLgr)
  (bvWSL-BS2lxr) etc. bvvWSLgrxl (or …lxr) like   (vWSLgr) + (xvWSLgl)
@Jc86035: Wouldn't the bvvWSL icons look something like   (bvvWSLe), or does the bvv prefix signify something different than double-width; parallel line; parallel line? Useddenim (talk) 22:28, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
@Useddenim: I think that icon would have bvvv, per   (vSPLa) ≈ vvSTRa. I had thought bvvvWSLe would just be the outer loop, but adding inner loops where possible also makes sense. (Do you think the icons should have l/r swapped or are they fine?) Jc86035 (talk) 04:42, 26 November 2017 (UTC)