Template talk:Institution

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Info non-talk.svg Template:Institution has been protected indefinitely because it is a highly-used or visible template. Use {{Edit request}} on this page to request an edit.
Please test any changes in the template's /sandbox or /testcases subpages, or in a user subpage, and consider discussing changes at the talk page before implementing them.

Language select widget[edit]

I noticed, that there is a language select widget on the institution templates. It doesn't work and I do not see what it is good for.--Oursana (talk) 07:55, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

I do not think there is one. Can you link to some examples, or a screenshot? --Jarekt (talk) 12:33, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your quick respons. I have it at whatever institution template left over the headline/title, with click I get this, my screenshot:File:Language select widget2.tiff Thank you--Oursana (talk) 14:02, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Now I get it. I do not think it is related to the institution template. I do not understand Meta:Language_select: this script seem to have always given me wrong and unexpected results, like hiding text I was working on. So some years ago I added "ls_enable = false; " to my User:Jarekt/common.js to disable Language_select script. --Jarekt (talk) 15:12, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
But I see this useless thing only with institutions and do not want to. I will delete my screenshot.--Oursana (talk) 15:30, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Institution:De Young Museum[edit]

does not show data. Regards--Oursana (talk) 20:54, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it does not show Wikidata. I am puzzled, I cannot find anything different from institution:Louvre, where it works. --Zolo (talk) 09:17, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Ahh, now I get what the problem was. I looked at it and the data showed just fine, but I did not noticed it was missing Wikidata icon. It is Pictogram voting keep.svg Fixed, although I have no idea what caused the problem. It was fixed by pasting blank template and moving each field from the old to the new templates. --Jarekt (talk) 12:48, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Thank you--Oursana (talk) 13:09, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Steps towards making Institution draw directly from Wikidata[edit]

Some first steps towards getting an Institution template to draw directly from Wikidata can be seen at d:Template:Institution/statictest -- still with quite a lot of weirdness still to be fixed at the moment, some of which is identified at d:Template talk:Institution, plus some that probably isn't.

This has to be hosted on Wikidata at the moment, because it requires "access to arbitrary items" -- the ability for template code called from one page to access information about a Wikidata item sitelinked to a different page. (Also called Wikidata Phase 3).

Such arbitrary access won't generally be possible until some quite heavy technical work has been done first, to enable MediaWiki to be able to work out whether (and which) pages need to be regenerated if an item on Wikidata changes. So it's not expected to be generally available on wikis including Commons until some time in 2015. But it is now possible, for development work without page regeneration, on Wikidata itself.

So that is why the development pages above are on Wikidata, rather than here.

See also the main project page d:Wikidata:WikiProject Structured Data for Commons/Template workshop for more information on the development, plus the (slightly more advanced) corresponding pages for the Creator template at d:Template talk:Creator, d:Template talk:Creator/statictest, d:Template:Creator/statictest and d:Template:Creator/wrapper/test

The Institution page also, at d:Template:Institution/statictest#Template_wikitext_generation, attempts to show what's going on 'under the bonnet' and passed to the existing template, in a form that will be possible to cut-and-paste to make new Institution:xyz templates here. (Once some more of the bugs are sorted out).

All thoughts and comments gratefully received, Jheald (talk) 22:35, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, the mockups are great! Unfortunately the missing arbitrary access prevents an enrollment on Commons at the moment of course. But perhaps the main functionality of the templates could yet be tested on Commons at single pages connected directly by Wikibase. --Marsupium (talk) 13:50, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
More test-cases now up at d:Template:Institution/wrapper/test. Still quite a lot to fix (see its talk page), and a lot to do to check things for proper robustness; but it's good to get some more examples on the board. Feel free to try others, if you think there may be any particularly awkward cases to handle.
As for connecting Institution pages directly to Wikidata -- in general, let's not do this. Unfortunately, for better or worse, the way Wikidata is constructed at the moment, each WD item can only link to a single target, and it's important that those links are consistent, predictable and traversable ie Category <-> Category-like item, Gallery <-> Article-like item. Otherwise too many things get too vulnerable.
There are queries at d:Wikidata:WikiProject Structured Data for Commons/Phase 1 progress/Links/Institution to check whether any items link directly to Institution pages, which can be re-run by following the links, logging in to the Quarry app, possibly re-loading the link, and then hitting "submit query". At the moment, thanks to the efforts of User:EugeneZelenko, the number is zero and it really ought to remain that way.
Conceivably in future there may be very special instances when cases need to be tested on Commons, as the Commons:Structured data project gets more thoroughly under way; but for the present it's not such a big hardship to have to be using Wikidata-wiki for the development and testing environment. Jheald (talk) 14:36, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Remove from content categories[edit]

{{edit request}} These template, along with virtually all others, are of no interest to viewers (as opposed to editors) of Commons. At present these institute pages are being placed in the related category where there is little likelihood of have a proper gallery pages for the institution. I would therefore like to see this template edited so that it does not automatically add the page to the category for the institution. Alan Liefting (talk) 07:16, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

@Alan Liefting: I don't agree. The category page for an institution should show everything Commons has relating to that institution -- including whether or not it has an Institution template. For starters, it's the easiest way to find out whether an institution does or does not have such a template that can be added to its images. It's also useful for debugging; and recently has been very useful for matching these templates to appropriate Wikidata items.
As to whether the templates should be displayed in the headers of such categories, my view would be yes they should. They give browsing viewers quick information about the entity, with relevant wiki-links and authority control information. That all seems very appropriate for a casual browsing viewer to be able to find. Jheald (talk) 09:34, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
I agree that the template should be added to a category page and the gallery page but the template itself should not be categorised in a category that consists of content for viewers. Templates should be categorised of course but only within the template categorisation hierarchy. It is often that case that editors forget that they are but a very small subset of those who visit Commons and carry out edits without thinking of the majority. Alan Liefting (talk) 09:41, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
No we do not have separate category structures for each namespace. {{Berlin}} and Berlin are in Category:Berlin. --Jarekt (talk) 12:59, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I know that we don't separate out stuff based on namespace.
What currently exists is a partial separation between content (stuff for viewers) and what could be loosely described as infrastructure (templates, policies, quidelines, user pages, etc). This separation needed to be made complete. Templates such as say {{Benin}} or {{ISO 3166-2/AU}} are of absolutely no use to viewers. The same goes with most of the templates. They are use to build pages. They should be in the "back end" for the "back room boys". Alan Liefting (talk) 18:37, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
So sometimes we do have categories like Category:Paris maintenance where some of the templates, etc. reside, but all of them need to be easily accessible from Category:Paris because that is where users expect to find them. It is just hard enough to maintain a single category tree that it is hard to justify creating and maintaining 2 parallel systems and it is not like we have so many templates in each category that they are make it harder for "viewers" to find stuff. For me this sounds like a solution in search of a problem. --Jarekt (talk) 19:47, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't like Category:Paris maintenance. I will put it up for deletion. It is a combination of editor and viewer categories which is the wrong way of doing things, and it is a confusing name. As for there being two parallel category systems there is no such thing.
The category system is very complex as seen in this diagram.
What is missing from Commons is a complete set of WikiProjects to link all of the editor related categories on a particular topic. We have to get out of the mindset that Commons is for editors. It is for viewers and every edit should be made to reflect this fact. Alan Liefting (talk) 23:21, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 Not done no consensus for change. @Alan Liefting: you might want to take a look at Commons:Structured data. That would make most of these current constructs redundant. Multichill (talk) 20:53, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

LUA and Wikidata[edit]

This template should be rebuild as LUA module at Module:Institution and have the option to fallback to Wikidata, see phab:T89599 (part of Commons:Structured data). Multichill (talk) 14:14, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Template talk:Institution[edit]

Hi, why no insert {{subst:FULLPAGENAME}} in the copy&paste template? Greetz! Bukk (talk) 08:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I wish we could but it is automatically generated by the {{templateBox}}. But we do have it when you are creating new Institution page and click "Click to preload this page with an institution template" link on the top. --Jarekt (talk) 13:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)