Template talk:Wikidata person

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Incorrect sorting[edit]

This template seems to generate an incorrect defaultsort in some cases. The example I noticed is when a category has something in parentheses at the end of its name, such as Category:Josef Richard Vilímek (1835). Even though that category has a defaultsort coded, the category is sorted under a left parenthesis instead of under "V". Can anyone help fix this? --Auntof6 (talk) 07:56, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Pinging @Jarekt:, since he/she created this template. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:57, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
This might be a bug in Module:Name._name() called from Module:Creator, because these are modules {{Wikidata person}} relies on. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 09:51, 26 December 2017 (UTC) Likely in the Module:Creator itself under the
-- process "sortkey" field

comment. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 10:02, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

✓ Done A fix is online. @Auntof6:, make dummy edits in categories where you want to see a correct sorting key now. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 11:53, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

@Incnis Mrsi: Will do. Many thanks! --Auntof6 (talk) 11:57, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this fix is not an ultimate cure, because Josef Richard Vilímek (1835)‎ is now under «Vil(Latin-1 letters)», although he should be under «Vili». Maybe, somebody with better skills will fix it. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 12:33, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

The algorithm starts guessing the sort if people did not provide the last name in the item family name (P734) property. The guesses are unlikely to be always right so setting P734 is a safer option. --Jarekt (talk) 17:58, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
It appears that Jarekt misses the point. Where should persons having the surname “Gómez” be sorted, between “Gomery” and “Gomi” (U+0047 U+006F… ), isn’t it? They all have the string “Gómez” (U+0047 U+00F3… ) in P734, and hence, your engine nowadays places them somewhere after “Guevara” (U+0047 U+0075… ). This isn’t really a bug of anything, neither is it a problem specific to Commons, but there is a problem. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 21:06, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
I thought we were talking about parenthesis in the end of the name, as in "Josef Richard Vilímek (1835)" messing up the order, not the order of Unicode characters. For the second issue, I guess it is related to Romanization of unicode text and conversion to UTF-8. I looked at Lua's Ustring library and do not see obvious way of removing all the accents from unicode text. Maybe we could apply mw.ustring.toNFC or mw.ustring.toNFD functions, but it is unclear to me what do they do at this point. Anybody familiar with them? --Jarekt (talk) 15:01, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Comma is a letter![edit]

Did you know...

… how many people have names starting from “,”? Incnis Mrsi (talk) 15:28, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Pictogram voting keep.svg Fixed--Jarekt (talk) 15:03, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Image[edit]

If image=null can we have the template display the image of the tombstone or the image of family coat of arms from their respective fields in Wikidata? I think the coat of arms should be the secondary choice, and the tombstone tertiary. The coat of arms display better at the <100px image size used in the template. See Category:Hans Christoffer von Rohr and Category:Simeon Van Nortwick II where I added the COA to the image field at Wikidata for this demonstration. RAN (talk) 18:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Good idea. At the moment Module:Creator first fetches image and than signature. We can add grave and COA. --Jarekt (talk) 18:32, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

It seems that {{PeopleByName}} duplicates some functions of Wikidata_person, is there anyway that the functions not in Wikidata_person can be added and they be merged. It is crazy that people are swapping in and out their fave template that does similar functions, when one can do all of them. RAN (talk) 18:51, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Migrate uses to Wikidata Infobox?[edit]

Would it be worth migrating the uses of this template to {{Wikidata Infobox}}? The content should be either the same or expanded: accessing the Wikidata info through the sitelink will work by default; and we still can access the others by using the QID. I can do the migration using User:Pi bot with a few tweaks. The main issue is probably whether we want to display this info in a horizontal or a vertical format: this template shows the info in a horizontal format, but the latter currently only shows the info in vertical format. Thoughts? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:53, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

I prefer {{Wikidata person}} for people. Horizon template is better. In my opinion also in other cases. -- Geagea (talk) 01:01, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
@Geagea: Why is that? I honestly want to know - I've heard from other editors that they prefer vertical template format so that it's off to one side and they can get to the category content more quickly, so I'd like to hear the counter-arguments for a horizontal format. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 01:25, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
The design may be a question of personal taste. But after I used the WD person template several times I got some problems. While discussing this (in German language) I got the hint of the WD Infobox template, and now I'm happy to use this one. --Stepro (talk) 03:52, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Commons is not wikipedia. Templates are more useful in commons as they come above the photos and they really can help in navigation. Wikidata Infobox more suitable for wiki article. While the horizon template can be seen all every time, Wikidata Infobox not. See example: with Wikidata Infobox and with Wikidata person. -- Geagea (talk) 06:24, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
As I wrote it is a question of personal attitude. You like the horizontal version, and think it's useful. I more like the vertical one, and think it's useful. It provides more information, and when it's used with only one pic instead of two in your example, it's good to see, too. --Stepro (talk) 07:24, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Maybe the templates can be combined and pass a parameter to use a horizontal or vertical layout. Rudolphous (talk) 05:49, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Please, leave the …person template separate. Generally what is now {{Wikidata Infobox}} has an unwise design, lumping many possible classes of entities together. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 19:12, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Support the suggestion by Rudolphous to find a common ground between the templates. Bot migration wouldn't be necessary in either case since we have redirects. The question also does not concern {{Wikidata person}} only, but rather {{Creator}} which is generated by the same Module:Creator. --Marsupium (talk) 13:10, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
I support migrating {{Wikidata person}}. However {{Creator}} is supposed to be for authors, and it is used within file descriptions, so the purpose is a bit different. Regards, Yann (talk) 14:09, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

{{Wikidata person}} does several things, (all based on Wikidata):

  1. adds infobox with dates and places of birth, death and work, as well as, descriptions like "Canadian-American actress, television actress, film actress, Playboy Playmate, model and voice actress" in English and "Канадско-американская актриса, телеактриса, актриса кино, Playboy Playmate, модель и актриса озвучивания" in Russian (for Pamela Anderson)
  2. adds categories like Category:1967 births, Category:1967 deaths, and Category:People by name with proper sortkeys
  3. adds interwiki links

{{Wikidata Infobox}} should replicate those functions before removal of {{Wikidata person}}. {{Wikidata Infobox}} does excellent job at adding infobox, but I do prefer automatic description instead of list of nationalities and occupations. Also I am not sure {{Wikidata Infobox}} can automatically provide the categories {{Wikidata person}} does. --Jarekt (talk) 15:06, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

@Jarekt: As far as I am aware, the infobox already does all of those things. The exception is with the descriptions, as they don't appear to all be on Wikidata (the example you give isn't in Pamela Anderson (Q83325)), so I'm not sure where they're actually being derived from here? The infobox uses the description that's on Wikidata instead (placed just below the image). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:12, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
My main issue was categories, and descriptions is more of an icing on the cake. Descriptions are created by Module:NationAndOccupation which is the latest iteration of our ancient {{NationAndOccupation}} template. --Jarekt (talk) 11:35, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
@Jarekt: Interesting. I'm inclined not to implement NationAndOccupation as that info's displayed separately elsewhere in the infobox, but can look into supporting it if needed. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 13:35, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
@Mike Peel: The main use of the Creator template is in the File: namespace. Display in categories is a side effect. Regards, Yann (talk) 06:41, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
  • I would like to see them harmonized, maybe add the shading and collapse/uncollapse to the vertical wikidata box. The horizontal format is much more compact. See this one RAN (talk) 18:28, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
    • @Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): Hide/show is already in the wikidata infobox. I'm not a fan of the shading in this template (it's OK on file pages, but looks out of place on categories), but I'm happy for someone to propose a restyle of the infobox if they want. I tried to do a horizontal format for the infobox, but it's not trivial as it's difficult to predict how many lines it will be (since it displays more info then this template), so that's currently stalled. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 13:35, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
It looks great, it just takes time to get used to it. That happens with any change of format. When you make the next round of improvements, people that never wanted the template added will complain that they do not like the changes. People crave familiarity. RAN (talk) 15:44, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment This matter needs a resolution. Has anyone look at how this is functioning in the mobile view? On pages where both are used, one has to scroll and scroll until one gets to the content. Uncool. We also have the duplicative use of {{People by name}}, {{Airport codes}} and {{Object location}}. All these components appear to be built into {{Wikidata infobox}} so how about we get with the simplified program and just get migrated.  — billinghurst sDrewth 12:32, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
    Noting that I have asked MP to look to how {{wikidata infobox}} works in mobile view as it precedes the content which is unfriendly, though all of these templates are having that effect.  — billinghurst sDrewth 12:34, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
  • @Geagea, Stepro, Rudolphous, Incnis Mrsi:@Marsupium, Yann, Jarekt, Billinghurst, Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): I think that all of the concerns raised above have been addressed. {{Wikidata Infobox}} shows all of the same information, and provides all of the functionality, that this one does. You can use your user css or javascript pages to show the infobox in a horizontal format if you prefer that orientation. Are there any other issues, or can I move uses of this template over to the infobox? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:05, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
As I wrote above I prefer the Wikidata Infobox, so of course I have no objections against it. --Stepro (talk) 23:15, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
  • ✓ I agree that we should replace all the other navigation templates that were folded into {{Wikidata Infobox}} with {{Wikidata Infobox}} by bot. RAN (talk)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment if you believe that the predominant issues are resolved and functionality is equivalent, then I favour moving to one template. There will be transactional changes, and having them in one place is preferable.

    As part of a translation, I believe we should protect the template; and improve instruction on the preferred use, to me it is categories, and not File: ns. We also need to look to the broader documentation on the competing templates or usage to direct new standard, for example, {{creator}} becomes used in File: ns.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:22, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

  • we do have a lot of infoboxes meant for files, which were also being used in Category namespace, some of them placed there by me and many others. Templates {{creator}} , {{Object location}}, {{Artwork}} and {{Book}} come to mind. I am fine with all of those templates being replaced by {{Wikidata Infobox}}. My only concern are cases where the template is defined directly in category namespace and that is the only place where some metadata is held in such cases we need to verify that information is not lost and that after replacement wikidata (preferably) or other commons page has the same metadata. --Jarekt (talk) 03:38, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
  • OK, I will start migrating these over shortly. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 07:24, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose. Agree with Marsupium – a bloated and clumsy {{Wikidata Infobox}} is good as the default solution, but specialized infoboxes can fit better into demands for certain classes of categories, such as people. @Mike Peel: please, don’t replace {{Wikidata person}} with your products. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 09:51, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
    @Incnis Mrsi: There is a switch in {{Wikidata Infobox}} that shows a different set of properties for people, so it should do a better job than this template without being too bloated. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:37, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
    @Incnis Mrsi: I've added an option into {{Wikidata Infobox/sandbox}} that will also show the creator box for humans - it's disabled by default, but you can enable it by making this change to your user javascript settings. Does that resolve your objection here? (As a reminder, this page is used in ~8,000 categories, which is a small fraction of categories about humans here...) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:12, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
    One should add options to {{Wikidata Infobox}} to improve its own functionality, not as a plot to displace all other infoboxes, establishing a monoculture. I don’t like {{Wikidata Infobox}}, although this template has an advantage of easy deployment for almost every category. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 07:43, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
    I Symbol support vote.svg Support the switch – just to be clear. I think support of what Template:Creator can is more or less accomplished. --Marsupium (talk) 16:31, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Given Incnis's comments, I've started a formal deletion request at Commons:Deletion requests/Template:Wikidata person - I hope that will reach a consensus of what to do here. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:22, 21 October 2018 (UTC)