User talk:Clindberg

Welcome to the Commons, Clindberg!

First steps tutorial Our first steps help file and our FAQ will help you a lot after registration. They explain how to customize the interface (for example the language), how to upload files and our basic licensing policy. You don't need technical skills in order to contribute here. Be bold contributing here and assume good faith for the intentions of others. This is a wiki - it is really easy. Getting help More information is available at the Community Portal. You may ask questions at the Help desk, Village Pump or on IRC channel #wikimedia-commons. You can also contact an administrator on their talk page. If you have a specific copyright question, ask at Commons talk:Licensing.		Goodies, tips and tricks Put Babel boxes on your user page so others know what languages you can speak and indicate your Graphics abilities. All your uploads are stored in your personal Gallery Please sign your name on Talk pages by typing ~~~~ Use the CommonSense tool to find good categories for your files (then other people can find them too!) To link to an image page, write this: [[:Image:Foo.jpg]], it makes this: Image:Foo.jpg If you're copying files from another project, be sure to use the CommonsHelper Made a mistake? Did you want to rename or move a file? Simply upload the file again and mark the old one like this: {{bad name|Correct name}} For more information read the full Deletion guidelines
(P.S. Would you like to provide feedback on this message?)

Flickr

Hello. Want to thank you for your message pointing out the 'no-commercial' requirement on some of the Flickr photos that I uploaded. This was a genuine error on my part because of my ignorance of the intricacies of the cc licences. I have gone thru my recent uploads and flagged the offending ones for copyvio. I just don't have the time to chase up the copyright holders for permissions for these particular images. Thanks again for your vigilance. Kahuroa 00:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for taking the effort to deal with it... easy mistake to make. Shame about the photos though. I now wish I'd taken more pictures while I was there... could have sworn I took at least a couple of other Maori-related pictures but I can't find them. Carl Lindberg 04:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. Never mind - the photos can be replaced. I must remember to take my camera with me more often. Kahuroa 05:07, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Flickreview

Thanks for noticing this. This is a bug that was introduced during my latest tweaks of the software, in which I had hoped to solve a same kind of bug. I will fix this bug before doing the next run. -- Bryan (talk to me) 09:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I have already tagged all wrongly reconized images. (Which was a hell of a job) Actually, the problem was that I has already made a fix to this bug, but I forgot to upload it to the server where the bot runs ;) -- Bryan (talk to me) 09:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Link in Commons:Licensing

Thank you for your message. I have revised the description so the 1990 Copyright Law of Red China has restored copyright in Article 55 and the 2001 Law has the same thing in Article 59.--Jusjih 14:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Rule of the shorter term

Thank you for your comment. you said, "That may be a more effective way of putting it; not sure." However, what does "that" mean, my proposed petition?--Jusjih 15:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

EXIF information on Flickr uploads

Unfortunately, the number of pictures you are allowed to upload to Flickr is restricted with respect to the file size. You can choose to only have low resolution versions available to the public. It is possible to retrieve EXIF values from Flickr through its api. However, I currently do not know a way to write this information to the file. -- Bryan (talk to me) 17:26, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Minnesota state seal

I tagged it as PD-US not because the image is pre-1923 but because the tag also applies in other general cases where an image is PD in the US. The other tag asserts state seals are PD, so that was the basis. But the change is also good. -Nard 19:43, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Request for comment about PD-textlogo

Hi Carl. I've noticed your insightful comments related to logos comprised solely of a general typeface (a "word mark"). Would you consider commenting at Commons:Help desk#Is this scalable (svg) wordmark copyrighted?, and offer guidance related to that specific image and to the {{PD-textlogo}} template in general? If my question is not clear, I can try to restate it or clarify it.

If you would comment there or here, I would be very appreciative. Thank you, Iamunknown 12:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Simple logos like that would not be a copyright violation of the company creating the logo (which is often the case with logo artwork), as there is no creative work by that company. I guess the question then is it a copyright violation of the original font. In the U.S., the general design of typefaces is not copyrightable (unless they have substantial ornamentation separate from the shape of the letters). However, the vector font files themselves are, under the "computer program" protection. The protection is more for the precise placement of the points, bezier control points, etc -- you cannot create a new font with just some simple modification or systematic transformation of an existing (copyrighted) vector font. However, bitmap representations have none of the actual point information embedded anymore and are therefore not copyrightable (no matter how big the bitmap). The situation is different in Europe -- typefaces can be copyrighted to an extent. I guess the question is whether the use of a few characters is a derivative work. I would lean towards no, just on a "feels right" basis, but I could easily be wrong.

If the SVG is just made with text of the Helvetica Ultra Condensed font (i.e. no actual outline information is in the SVG), then it's definitely OK. If the Wikimedia servers have that font (legally), then they can render bitmaps for web pages, which are not protected. The potential problem would only occur if you converted the characters to outlines in the SVG itself (which I assume is the situation here). The UK law referenced in w:WP:PD#Fonts explicitly says that the usage of fonts is not a copyright violation... you would think the situation is de facto the same in the U.S., otherwise things like embedded fonts in EPS/PDF files would be violations (even if just partially embedded). However, you may have to argue it on a "fair use" basis since the U.S. has the "computer program" aspect to it, and parts of it are copied. I'm not really sure.

It seems to me as though the protection is mainly to prevent direct competitors from selling identical or derivative font files. For example, pulling outline characters out of several SVG/EPS/PDF files to cobble together a font would be a violation, as may be pulling out individual characters to combine into a different logo just to avoid having to pay the font vendor so they can render it directly. But, as long as the original SVG was rendered by someone with legal access to the fonts, it seems to me usage of that image would be OK. There may be fine print in the original font purchase agreement when it comes to logos though, who knows. If you want to be safer, you could create a big bitmap and upload that instead. Carl Lindberg 05:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Carl, for the specific advice and for helping me to understand that quirk in copyright law! I uploaded the rasterised image to Image:Bushnell wordmark.png.  :-) Cheers, --Iamunknown 23:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

PD-MNGov

Thank you for calling attention to the opinion of the Minnesota Attorney General. As discussed on the template talk page, the safer course of action may be to deprecate use of the template, or delete it entirely, in the absence of an uncontested opinion allowing free use. While there seems to be little question that the only image which now uses it is free use by the public, having been reproduced in numerous news media, that image is not now being used in any en:WP article, so its loss would not cause any present harm. Thanks again, Kablammo 21:55, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Trademarked

The U.S. has a common-law trademark system. An insignia like that is trademarked regardless of whether it's registered. See http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmfaq.htm#Search005 . Superm401 - Talk 05:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

No, the template's still useful. If you want, you can create a registered trademark template, with an associated subcategory of Category:With trademark, and have both. But most content on Commons is not trademarked (not even common law), and thus it's important to provide a way to identify the content that is trademarked for both computers (e.g. commercial mirrors may want to automatically avoid trademarked content) and people. Superm401 - Talk 05:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Image needing work

Do you think you can take a crack at cleaning up Image:OFCCP-Seal.png? Thanks. Evrik 18:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for the advice. I'll look to that other source. Evrik 19:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Image:US-MarineCorps-Seal-Bronzed.svg

There seems to be a problem regarding the description and/or licensing of this particular file. It has been found that you've added in the image's description only a Template that's not a license and although it provides useful informations about the image, it's not a valid license. Could you please resolve this problem, adding the license in the image linked above?

This message was added automatically by sz-iwbot, if you need some help about it, ask its master (Sz-iwbot) or go to the Commons:Help desk. --Sz-iwbot 16:11, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Oops, fixed. Carl Lindberg 16:54, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Gandhi Downing Street.jpg

Hello Clindberg :) Would you be kind enough to check and give your point of vue on this particular image. Best regards. -- Perky (talk) 08:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Commons:When to use the PD-signature tag

Could you look at this proposal and comment please? Do you know of any cases or legal opinions which specifically say that signatures are copyright-ineligible in the US? I am a little concerned that the current US text relies too heavily on an assumption that a signature falls within the scope of "Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; and mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring." I would be happier if we could cite a legal commentator, at the very least, who specifically says so. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:36, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

U.S. sculptures

Some more things to consider:

1. Sculptures commissioned by the U.S. federal government. For pre-1978 commissions, we may presume that the copyright was transferred to the commissioning party, i.e. the government. See Community for Creative Non-Violence v. Reid 490 U.S. 730 (1989), where the Supreme Court states that under the 1909 Act "the courts generally presumed that the commissioned party had impliedly agreed to convey the copyright, along with the work itself, to the hiring party." (Section II(A), paragraph starting with "In 1955...") For current commissions, there is evidence that the U.S. government insists that the copyright be transferred to them. See Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Boy Scout Memorial-27527.jpg. What now? Can we simply assume that since the U.S. government would not object to freely licensed images of sculptures (and other commisssioned works), we may keep such images; kind of an "implied free license"? Whom would one have to contact to get an official statement? (On the Boy Scout Memorial, I'm not even sure it was commissioned by the government. Looks like it was commissioned by Boy Scouts America and then donated to the government...?)
2. What shall we do for sculptures erected 1923-1977? We may perhaps treat them as published, but we have no way of determining their copyright status. If we strictly delete them all, we'll delete way too many, since many will indeed not have had a copyright notice or will not have had their copyrights properly renewed. Maybe treating them as unpublished and applying 70 years p.m.a. would be a workable pseudo-solution. It may not be strictly correct if the sculptures were indeed published, but it'd be a best-effort approach. Either way it looks as if we're going to empty Brookgreen Gardens... If we just keep these 1923-1977 sculptures, we may actually keep many non-free images claiming them to be free. Brookgreen Gardens themselves state one had to attribute the sculptors for copyright reasons...

Thoughts? Lupo 20:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Ugh? :-)

1. Interesting; agreed that there does seem to be an implied transfer on older works (needing to be explicit, post 1978 -- according to en:Copyright Act of 1976#Transfer_of_copyright it was rather conflicting before that). en: Community for Creative Non-Violence v. Reid also says that afterwards the lower court ruled that both the artist and commissioning party own "joint rights" on "two-dimensional reproductions"; not sure how to interpret that. It may be best to assume an implied license in these older cases... the idea of the federal government actually suing over something like that is rather far-fetched (it is rare enough -- and somewhat controversial -- when regular sculptors do for folks taking snapshots). Maybe they still hold copyright just in order to prevent sculptural copies, and otherwise it is like the LoC who does not restrict anything in collections which it purchases, but who knows. I would think the NPS would administer anything in national parks; getting a statement from them would be helpful of course... but judging by pages like this, not sure they want to take a position one way or another. Some statues may still be copyrighted by others -- here they mention a statue's copyright (but say nothing of the photo), while here they give a slightly different indication. Sounds like that statue was commissioned (but after 1978), but en:The Three Soldiers indicates that the sculptor successfully sued someone (which included 3-D reproductions though); maybe that is why the NPS is careful to note this. The NPS does seem to allow photography in general, but charges for commercial photography which needs special props, special access, etc.[1] apparently to recover administrative costs.
2. I think we should treat them as published... so the question would be if there is any way to determine if there is a copyright notice on any of them. I am tempted again to think if the Art Inventory Catalog thoroughly documents a sculpture but does not mention a copyright, then that may be enough to consider it as PD-US-no_notice. Or, maybe if an uploader goes back to look over a statue specifically for it. I noticed the Brookgreen site (and Art Inventory Catalog) mentioned that a couple of statues were "unsigned"... that would be clear indication of no notice, I would think. The 1909 Act was pretty specific in the need for a notice, and copyright was lost without it (even things like being ambiguous as to who the author was invalidated the notice and thus the copyright). I think statues did not need the year, but did need the author (or at least initials, with the author spelled out somewhere nearby). The 1909 Act did allow for one or two accidental missing notices, but in those cases there were apparently no penalties for infringement for existing copies of the works lacking a notice. As for renewals... hard as ever. Have any fine art renewal listings come online yet? As for the required attribution, I think that is due to VARA (17 U.S.C. 106A), which while technically separate from copyright (they are moral rights) is still part of Title 17. Those still exist even if copyright has expired.

Messy stuff, to be sure. Carl Lindberg (talk) 08:57, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, renewals may not be that hard. The 1950-1977 renewals are here. It would appear that sculptures should be in there somewhere if they were renewed, or for 1978-1991 renewals, they should be in the LoC's catalog. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:01, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I take that back... the Gutenberg listing may not include art renewals other than for 1950-51. Carl Lindberg (talk) 20:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. We'll have to work out something. In any case, I disagree to treat the Smithsonian catalog as a copyright listing. While their descriptions of e.g. the sculptures at Gettysburg are very detailed, others, such as the Brookgreen listsings, are not. Absence of a copyright mention in the Smithsonian catalog cannot be treated as evidence that the sculpture was uncopyrighted. (Unless we get a statement of the Smithsonian to that effect.) Lupo 20:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed that many statues are not documented too well, but even for the Brookgreen ones, they are mentioning copyright in several cases. I do feel if they say it is "unsigned", that is clear evidence of no copyright notice (since that is a required part of a valid notice). For entries which do not seem to be well documented, agree with that. Definitely a hard problem. Carl Lindberg (talk) 20:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Also see here. We'll need to work this out in one place. Lupo 20:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

P.S.: Yes, The Three Soldiers is copyrighted. Anyway, for sculptures erected 1978 or later, 70 years p.m.a. applies. But you're right, it's a prime example against an "implicit free license". Glenda Goodacre's Vietnam Women's Memorial Statue also is copyrighted, and it appears there was also a lawsuit about images of this one.[2] Lupo 21:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

More on The Three Soldiers: indeed Hart and the VVMF successfully sued someone who was selling t-shirts that had an image of the sculpture printed on them. It looks as if the Wall and the Three Soldiers are not owned by the U.S. government at all but by the private non-profit corporation VVMF.[3] Ditto for the Vietnam Women's Memorial Foundation.[4] Lupo 07:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Kudos

Not sure if you noticed this, but I agree; excellent research! Well done. Giggy (talk) 23:46, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Adminship?

You've got great knowledge, doing deletion requests, and even Lupo asks for help :) What do you think? --Kanonkas_(talk) 12:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Why aren't you replying back? --Kanonkas_(talk) 14:57, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Just did :-) Didn't edit much the last day or so. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:37, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

So, now that you've had half a year to "keep this in mind" - I really think Commons (and you) would benefit from you having those extra buttons... :) Finn Rindahl (talk) 22:33, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I also have to chime in (I understand this thread is somewhat old, but I didn't wanna create a whole new thread on the same topic) that I believe you should be an admin. I read your response to Kanonkas when he initially asked you over a year ago, and I understand your reasoning. However, every little bit helps. Some days you might feel like working in admin-related areas on Commons, which the tools could help with, and other days you might wish to work in non-admin related areas. I think that you being a sysop would be a complete gain for the project, and I would be willing to nominate you should you be interested in that. Feel free to respond here or on my talk page. :-) Killiondude (talk) 09:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

It's beyond time to raise this question again. It doesn't take much to be an Admin, but every little bit helps and you clearly have the skills.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:28, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

I second that. Your contributions to deletion discussions are irreplaceable, and admin bit would be useful for you at least for viewing deleted pictures on COM:UDEL. Trycatch (talk) 22:53, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

+1 --Leyo 08:59, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Floats

Could you take a look at Commons talk:Licensing#Floats, and perhaps comment on the separability issue? Many thanks, --MichaelMaggs (talk) 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Library of Congress

I just want to thank you for your answer to my question about the Library of Congress. I think I have all ready the definitive answer of the Wiki administrator that deleted the two files because Commons doesn't accept Fair Use. Thank you very much and good luck.--eliasjorge4 (talk) 00:49, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Arilang1234 asking for help

Hi, I saw your name on Commons talk:Licensing and I thought I drop by and ask you for help. I am new on Commons, somehow I learned how to upload images onto Commons so one things lead to next I have upload quite a few images from Google images. I know there will be copy-right problems, but if I use Photo-shop software to digitally alter them, would I still have copy-right problems? Thank youArilang1234 (talk) 07:45, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, it is me again. I have used template(PD-Art) on some of the images I have uploaded, and user How do you turn this on mentions the copy right issue is unclear because information on author is missing. Could you help me out in this aspect?Arilang1234 (talk) 00:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Revisisted deletion debate

I have taken a second look at two old deletion debates and proposed a solution. You participated in the earlier discussion, and I thought you would like to comment on my proposal.--HoboJones (talk) 19:15, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Would you mind taking at my reasoning at a related deletion discussion: Commons:Deletion requests/Images of PAHistorical&MuseumCommissionMarkers?--HoboJones (talk) 23:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Communists from the United States

Hi Clindberg, there are probably some more pics with communists from the US. I have found only one till now (but we are expecting 95000 more - not all are communists :-)): Image:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-Z0414-148, Berlin, David Silberstein, Franz Loeser.jpg. I'm expecting some pics of Paul Robeson and Dean Reed and of some deserted US soldiers. Are American communists relevant? How you would categorize them? Regards Mutter Erde (talk) 18:12, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Lack of Copyright jurisdiction

I thought I'd just point you to the {{PD-Afghan}} tag for future use, hopefully save you a few headaches. Sherurcij (talk) 21:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Old DR needs closing

Would you like to comment on Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Gentlemen Prefer Blondes Movie Trailer Screenshot (34).jpg ? --MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! --MichaelMaggs (talk) 18:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Building interiors

Thanks. Assuming there is a solid consensus, is there any place we can get this codified more clearly, so I don't keep having to fight with an admin over it? - Jmabel ! talk 21:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for decategorizing File:View of the Yosemite Valley 1865 Thomas Hill.jpg

I didn't fully read the description. --BrokenSphere 00:03, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Published/not published

Hi Carl, Lupo and I have a little discussion here: Commons:Deletion requests/File:George Sanders-Debra Paget-Movie Still.jpg. There are some problems, for example Kanonkas, who tried to revert my contributions. So I called for some arguments on Jimbo's talk page. No reaction. This question seems to be hairy stuff. But a decision whether this film still/promo pic/lobby card is in PD or not might concern some more pics? So I beg you for a little statement on this DR. Regards Mutter Erde (more alive as ever) 78.48.221.157 16:38, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

• Hi Carl, I have found a proof, that this film still was normally published - even on the Italian poster as here: http://www.j-verne.de/verne6_f5.html. The problem is: I can't present it on the DR page, because User:MBisanz has locked it and has manipulated my contributions without a note that he was the manipulator. (Here a second manipulation by MBisanz). But I gave Jimbo a note, what kind of admins of shame are around here on commons. If he thinks that this is not his business, then he gets a second, a third note, period and so on. Regards Mutter Erde 78.52.218.178 11:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
  1. On the topic at hand: OK, publishing a derivative work (the painting on that Italian film poster) is also a publication of the underlying base work (the photo), see Harris Custom Builders, Inc. v. Hoffmeyer, 92 F.3d 517 at paragraph 22 (7th Cir. 1996), quoting Nimmer § 4.12[A]. So, what's the effect of the publication of the derivative in Italy (where at least the derivative, if not the photo, is still copyrighted to 70 years p.m.a.) on the status of the U.S. photo in the U.S.?
  2. Mutter Erde, you're technically blocked indefinitely here. (Though you know anyway where to post such that interested parties see your comments :-). Admins are well within their rights if they enforce that block and/or revert your contributions. And bugging Jimbo about it won't change anything. Neither will crusading against admins.
  • Lupo 12:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
  1. On the topic at hand: I think, that's good news. So we can concentrate now, who had to renew the copyright. RKO or Warner Brothers?
  2. No No no, Lupo, I do not allow that boys with bad manners or simple fakers are manipulating my contributions without a note. Jimbo seems to have no problem with such people currently, but they will be his problem some day. See also little ABF, abused by Jimbo, only to get rid of Mutter Erde. Whom's reputation do you think will be damaged more on the long run with such dirty stories? Jimbo's or mine? No answer needed. I will take care that Jimbo in future will have a sharper look on what's happening on commons. Commons, a file repository for currently 649 projects, is not Jimbo's Kindergarten. Regards Mutter Erde 78.52.218.178 19:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Capitol Visitor Center

I wanted to thank you for this. The new SVG logo looks great, and I appreciate you upgrading an article that I spent a lot of time on. If you feel the need to reply, please do so on my Wikipedia talk page. Thanks again! ~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk^stalk» 09:07, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

LJDickinson.jpg

Thanks for getting to the bottom of whether this photo could be undeleted.Wikijsmak (talk) 04:40, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Dali image

Would you like to comment on the de minimis policy? See Commons talk:De minimis/Public scenes. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 19:25, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

A proposal to relax the rules on fan art

Hi Carl. I have made a proposal to replace the current policy page on fan art with something more legally correct and I hope useful. Of course the whole area is pretty murky from a copyright point of view, and it's not really possible to do much more than waffle and set out some general principles. I'd really appreciate it if you could help improve the wording. It's at Commons:Fan art/Proposal. Many thanks. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 19:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

A talkback of sorts

I replied to your reply here. Thanks for the help! —Ed 17 ^(Talk) 15:58, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again for all of the help you have provided! :) —Ed 17 ^(Talk) 20:13, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Cosplay

Do you happen to know of any references that might help me on this, other than the various Lucasfilms cases in the US and UK? --MichaelMaggs (talk)

usembassy.de state seals

As per our conversation at Commons:Deletion requests/U.S. State seals, I reviewed all uses of Template:US state seal and tagged all images from usembassy.de as Template:US state seal from usembassy.de. A note has been placed on Template:US state seal telling people not to use the template. Images where the usembassy was overwritten have not been modified.--Svgalbertian (talk) 02:24, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

URAA litigation

Greetings. Do you know how I can find out more about litigation against the URAA in the U.S.? I saw you mention it on the admin noticeboard, and I'm keen to know more. Quadell (talk) 01:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

See URAA and Template talk:Not-PD-US-URAA. Also see Tyler Ochoa's comments. Lupo 06:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: restored copyrights

Re Commons:Village pump/Archive/2009Apr#Pre-1923 US-Copyright of foreign works: see [5] and [6]: he now agrees with us. Lupo 19:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah excellent; thanks for following that up. Good to have confirmation. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Request for advice

Hi, I have a question on what country of origin should we assume for a photo when a foreigner goes on tour. Could you advise at Commons:Village pump#British photographer takes photo in Australia—which is the country of origin?? Thank you. Jappalang (talk) 07:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Country of origin is the country of first publication (per the Berne Convention). Lupo has that DR covered it looks like. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

PD review for LORAN coverage charts

Hi Carl,

I had to submit these two for the reasons I stated at Commons talk:PD files. I am afraid you are the only regular participant in discussions about copyright who follows the principle of common sense and assumes good faith. For whatever reason, Wikimedia Commons is infested by a number of copyright extremists who file a deletion request for any file there is a real or imaginary suspicion. Therefore a PD review, if properly documented, may protect an image in the future, especially if there are no proper source and date notices on it. Regards, Sv1xv (talk) 08:51, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Opt-out discussion

Hello Clindberg, I am trying to develop a larger consensus around the opt-out issue. Consistent with that, I have started a new section on the talk page and plan to advertise it widely. Your previous comments are linked from that page, but I am mentioning it here in case you want to address the issue directly in the new thread. Apologies, for the duplication of effort, but I think restarting this is more likely to gain participation rather than trying to draw new voices into an thread that had already grown stale. Dragons flight (talk) 00:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Heads up on a discussion

Hi, I have mentioned your opinions at Commons talk:Licensing#Foreign government works and URAA. I am seeking clarification on whether the Treaty does restore/extend the copyrights of foreign government works. Could you weigh in and perhaps clarify your views? Thank you. Jappalang (talk) 03:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Policy change?

Hi Carl, I have asked Lupo, whether commons policy has changed in http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lupo&oldid=22213769#Habt_Ihr_eure_policy_ge.C3.A4ndert.3F . But this question was probably to difficult :-)

• More pics, tagged for a speedy delete
• File:Turhan Bey with Universal Studios mailroom workers,1953.jpg
• File:Myrna LOY Mature Adolphe MENJOU Vintage PHOTO.jpg
• File:Dolores Del Rio-I Live For Life-2.JPG
• File:Audie Murphy-DW ORIGINAL PUBLICITY PROMO PHOTO.jpg
• File:Lynn Bari, Edward G. Robinson-Tampico4.JPG
• File:Louis Jourdan, Lilli Palmer, Dana Andrews,1948-Promo-1.jpg
• File:Louis Jourdan, Lilli Palmer, Dana Andrews,1948-Promo-2.jpg
• and many many more
• But both templates are still the same. What do you think?
• Regards Mutter Erde 85.181.243.158 11:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion_requests/File:1963_Cleopatra_trailer_screenshot_(40).jpg

might be interesting for you. Regards Mutter Erde 78.51.199.130 00:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You have a thank-you note at here

--Kiam-shim (talk) 03:51, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I just wanted to thank you for your constant helpfulness on so many aspects of this project. - Jmabel ! talk 16:22, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

And thank you both for the note of thanks ;-) Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:24, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Rule of the shorter term

As a matter of public policy, I think the rule of the shorter term is a bad thing; the copyright holders keep putting pressure on each side to increase their terms so no works from country A are out of copyright in country B just because they're out of copyright in country A. Decoupling the copyright systems helps stop some of the pressure to increase copyright terms. Perhaps this would have been better put on COM:L, but I figured it'd add more noise to a discussion which could little afford it.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:08, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that is an interesting take -- that was partly behind the increase from 75 to 95 years, to increase protections in Europe. So, a short-term solution could be a long-term problem. It also takes a lot of interpretation of foreign law out of it, which is probably why the U.S. has never done it. On the other hand, it was effectively the rule of the shorter term on the URAA date :-) And, there are folks who want copyright to be perpetual, and will keep fighting to make it longer no matter what. The public domain has no lobby who can write campaign donations :-/ Anyways, I've not seen any realistic chance that a change like that would happen (and even if it would, it would *only* apply to URAA restored works, not works created after 1978 -- the U.S. has 70pma terms for those like many other countries.) Maybe for the restored works, they could use the shorter of the old (95 years from publication) or new (70 pma) U.S. copyright styles. But, the law is complicated enough as it is, and that could just make things worse, and I don't think anyone wants to deal with it. Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:40, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

File:Standard Of The President Of The Unites States Of America.svg

Do you know what colors are supposed to be used on the shield? I think the blue we have on there is a tad too light. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 17:18, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Executive Order 10860 says "light blue". That was actually a 1945 change from the previous presidential flag. So it's pretty close, I think, but could be a bit darker. File:US-President-Seal.svg is another version, with more faithful outlines I think (but weird stroke widths in that version), and that does have a somewhat darker blue. Though, the colors on this in general seem less vibrant than that one. There is a pretty wide latitude allowed I think. Here is a photo of an actual flag, and it doesn't seem too far off actually. But darker could also be OK. I hadn't actually looked at that aspect much... just kept the same as the original seal version (which is from U.S. Government PDFs). The misspelling of "United" irks me more than anything else ;-) Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, the flag image looks fine now with thanks to your links. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 06:16, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and darkened it a bit (and also changed the talons to better match the spec). And the file has finally been renamed ;-) Carl Lindberg (talk) 04:15, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

PD-Look

Hi, I noticed the discussion was archived. I made some changes in the text of the template. I hope you agree. Jan Arkesteijn (talk) 09:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

File:US-BorderPatrol-Logo.svg

This message was added automatically by Nikbot, if you need some help about it, ask its master (Filnik) or go to the Commons:Help desk. --Filnik 05:19, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Oops. fixed. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:21, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Follow-up question (Australian Historical Mission)

Thanks for the advice you gave at the Village Pump here. It seems that the David Barker you found is the same at the one who drew the picture I wanted to upload (though I am still not 100% that they are the same, it does appear probable). What I wanted to ask is what happens when you can't find out the year of death of the photographer? The picture I want to upload is this one. It says "One of a series of photographs taken on the Gallipoli Peninsula under the direction of Captain C E W Bean of the Australian Historical Mission, during the months of February and March, 1919." Does that count as a work-for-hire? Was it for the Australian Government? It dates from 1919 and also says "Donated by J Knight". I'm planning to write an article about the Australian Historical Mission (AHM). More information on that can be found here. Another question concerns the photographs taken by the official photographer, Hubert Wilkins. Article on him is here. Any idea what rules apply for his official war photos and his later photos for the AHM? Carcharoth (Commons) (talk) 12:22, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Ugh. Sure seems like that would qualify for Commonwealth Copyright... Per §177, the Commonwealth or a State is the owner of the copyright in an original literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work first published in Australia if first published by, or under the direction or control of, the Commonwealth or the State, as the case may be. The description of the mission says Australian governments have commissioned four separate series of official war histories over this period, including the WWI one under discussion. On the other hand the War Memorial explicitly claims copyright in the WWI histories, even though those were published more than 50 years ago and would seem to be PD in Australia now. Maybe they are only claiming copyright to the 1980 editions, which seem to be the ones published on their site -- if there were changes made to the text, that would be reasonable. As for that photograph, it lists as a "Maker" the Australian War Records Section, which was a military unit. Per §180(2), Commonwealth Copyright in photographs made prior to 1969 lasts 50 years from when the photograph was made (§180(c), which changes it to 50 years from publication for photographs, is only for photographs made in 1969 or later per §233). So yes, given that the photo was made in 1919 I think {{PD-Australia}} applies to that photograph as a government work. It is marked as PD on their site as well, and that seems to be the most likely way they would determine that. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:11, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

You didn't want to consider Turkish or Ottoman copyright law, if that existed? :-) I'm only half-joking there! But many thanks, once again. I'll wait a bit and when the article is ready I'll check back and then go ahead with uploading the picture. Carcharoth (Commons) (talk) 19:07, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

 :-) Just to respond to the half-serious part of the above: country of origin, per the Berne Convention, is the country where a work was first published regardless of where it was taken or what the nationality of the author is (provided, of course, that that country is a signatory to the Berne Convention, which the Ottoman Empire was not). Someone actually has looked up Ottoman Empire stuff; see Commons:Licensing#Ottoman Empire.

Edits

I undid several of your edits because they didn't make sense. Removing the Standards of the US Vice-president and the Governors of the States from the Category Presidential Standards, idk why you did it, but they belong there. Two your your created categories I have makred for deletion because they are superfluous, there is no need for them. I don't see the point in there being a Category called personal flags of the United States, if it only has on flag in it. That flag better belongs in the Category Military Flags of the United states, where all of other Standards of Military Officials are. Your edits in Norway were also pointless, why have Personal Flags of Norway, when that's not what they are. The Rank flags are generic flags used for many men within the Norweigan Forces. The True personal flags are the Royal Standards, and the flags of the Inspectors General of the Forces. They have their own Categories. Fry1989 (talk) 07:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

sorry by the way, I didn't mean to sound harsh with using Speedy, but I like to be prompt Fry1989 (talk) 08:06, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with some of what you're saying. Surely we can come to a concensus. How about we take the Standards of the Vice President and the State Governors out of the Presidential Standards category, but leave them as subcategories inside Standard of the President of the United States. I'll put the Standards for Prime Ministers and Defence Ministers in the Personal Flags Category alongside Heads of State Standards. After that is done, we can add over time other personal flags, such as those of the US military, Norwegian Inspectors General, and other such flags. How does that sound? Fry1989 (talk) 23:30, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I've done some of it as you can see here:http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Personal_flags and I can work on the personal flags of the US Military shortly if you like what I have done so far. I guess I misunderstood your original intentions, and I apologize for that. I hope we can work together on this in the future :) Fry1989 (talk) 23:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I like your ideas, though I am a bit worried about over-categorization, and making it too complicated. Perhaps for the United States, since they have the most and it would make a good example for others, is to have the category Personal Flags of the United States, then have within it the subcategories for the Air Force, Navy, and Army, as well as the President, VP and Governors Fry1989 (talk) 23:58, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I can see what you mean about the difference in language between US English and the rest of the world regarding the word "Standard", but in proper vexillogical language, they are standards, and I think we should use that term, for lack of a better one. I would have to debate with you regarding the Naval Jack of Norway, it's not a personal flag or standard, but an additional flag for military vessels, so I don't feel it would also belong in the category Standards of the Norwegian Military. I agree we should set a good rythem for the US ones before we move on to any other countries though. Fry1989 (talk) 03:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

That sounds pretty good actually. I have to go to bed pretty soon as I got things to do tomorrow morning, but tomorrow afternoon I have plenty of time and can get right to sorting the personal flags of the US. I'll do subcategories for the different forces, and that sort, should turn out all right. I'll forego the use of the term "standard" for now and use "personal flags", as it seems the most neutral. Thanks mate :D Fry1989 (talk) 06:03, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Sound recordings

Hi! Regarding our discussion at the Village Pump in January, I've made a proposal here to add a section for US sound recordings to the licensing policy. Any input on the proposal would be welcome. Regards, Jafeluv (talk) 02:10, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank youuuuuuu! You explained what I wasn't able to. Thanks a lot for clarifying :) --Sailko (talk) 11:32, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Clindberg. You have new messages at Commons talk:Licensing#US sound recordings. You may remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Request for you to weigh in on one

Since I know you tend to be pretty knowledgable on rights issues, and since I may be biased because the photo in question is mine, can I ask you to please weigh in at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Seattle - University Heights School 03.jpg? Thanks. - Jmabel ! talk 00:31, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Limited publication again

Hi Carl. The "limited publication" thing has re-surfaced. We once went into this at Template talk:PD-US-statue/proposal, now it comes up again at File talk:Mae West LAT.jpg. I'd very much appreciate your opinion there on the issue of "publicity stills" (which are not single frames from a movie or trailer, but separately shot photos).

Open points for me currently:

• Do we have more court cases on that issue?
• What were the © notice requirements for photos included in newspapers under the 1909 Copyright Act? Did they need a separate notice, or was a global notice for the whole newspaper as a collective work sufficient, as it is since the 1976 Copyright Act?
• Can we just presume that photos coming from some newspaper archive that don't bear a visible © notice on the front did not have such a notice when they were given to the newspaper by the film studio? Truly checking for a notice would imply physical access to the newspaper's archive, I guess, since such a notice might also have been on the back, or the version published might have been a crop of a larger image (possibly the case with File:Mae West LAT.jpg; I was able to find a larger, more complete version).
• If we have a crop like that file and decide it was OK to use, can we extend the reasoning to the larger version from which the crop was made?

Lupo 11:06, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure where to insert comments in that talk page, so I'll reply here :-) Publicity shots would not be covered by a film's copyright; they would have needed their own. Simply distributing those photos to newspapers (regardless of whether they were actually used in the newspapers) would I think constitute general publication; I can't fathom any way that could be claimed limited publication. Only if photos were made and never distributed (certainly possible). The actual copies sent to newspapers would have needed notices I would think -- and if actually put in the newspaper with permission, that should most definitely be general publication.

• I don't know of any specific court cases on these, unfortunately. s:Gaiman v. McFarlane has a couple of paragraphs which discuss the newspaper's overall copyright, and cite some older court cases which may be relevant, not sure. Basically says that a user should assume a collective copyright covers elements, even if authored by someone else.
• I don't think the 1976 Copyright Act changed much in this area (collective copyrights) -- I think it was pretty much the same under the 1909 Act. (Though the description of this case may indicate otherwise.) The copyright notice on the newspaper should be assumed to cover everything without a separate notice in the paper itself, other than specifically advertisements (which needed their own notice or were immediately PD). A question came up on letters-to-the-editor type things, and this was pointed out. Without evidence that the original photo print itself was missing a copyright notice, I'm not sure a lack of notice in a newspaper is solely enough to go by. But... there are complications. Circular 3 covers most of this I think; it does say: If the owner of the collective work is not the same as the owner of an individual contribution that does not bear its own notice, the contribution is considered to bear an erroneous notice. I don't think an "erroneous" notice eliminated copyright the way a "defective" notice did; someone just having a copy of the newspaper should probably assume items are copyrighted. On the other hand, that situation is probably very dicy once it comes to renewal -- I'm not sure someone could claim that a renewal of the collective copyright (which has an explicit copyright owner named) can cover items authored by someone else. And if there was no renewal of the collective copyright, I'm not sure at all where that leaves individual works without their own notice. And as noted, lots and lots of newspapers never renewed their copyrights, particularly outside New York. I'm pretty sure the actual copyright owner would have at least had to properly register the separate work on their own at some point -- if that never happened, I would think copyright would lapse 28 years after publication. I believe artwork renewals are now online (not sure how easily searchable they are though), so perhaps soon we can actually start investigating visual arts renewals rather than just assuming copyrighted.
• Not sure we can, but from reading some internet links (say here), apparently most of them did not have such a notice. Some did though. But maybe for old (i.e. pre-1964) ones, we can look for renewals -- if nothing is found, they are probably fine.
• A crop would follow the copyright of the original I would think. Either both are copyrighted or neither are. Carl Lindberg (talk) 06:23, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

It's clear that such publicity photos are separate works and do not fall under the copyright of the film. I think that was clear to anybody. Anyway, thanks for your answers, which seem to coincide with my thinking. And thanks for this link, looks very useful. Lupo 07:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Gaiman vs. McFarlane references Abend vs. MCA, where indeed a copyright notice for the whole collection was deemed sufficient for a single contribution to be considered properly copyrighted. Some follow-up thoughts on File talk:Mae West LAT.jpg. Lupo 08:30, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

File:US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg

• Commons:Deletion requests/File:US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg Sfan00 IMG (talk) 09:46, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
• Commons:Deletion requests/File:US-FBI-Seal.svg Sfan00 IMG (talk) 09:47, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
• Commons:Deletion requests/File:US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:09, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Star wars logos

You have usefully participated in the old discussion, could you participate in the new one? Honestly I'm quite afraid that the text only logo (ultra heavily in use) will be deleted without analysis by some admin, who can be impressed by all these delete votes. Trycatch (talk) 20:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

De minimis use of book covers

Carl, I am writing an article on the 6800 microprocessor (1975) and want to show the amount of documentation Motorola provided. Their manuals are copyrighted so I couldn't just stack them up and take a picture showing a front cover. I found a Motorola 6800 document that was public domain so I placed it on top. The edge of the two thick manuals has the title text on the edge. Is File:Mototola M6800 Manuals.jpg OK? It shows less "copyrighted" material than File:Bookcase.jpg. -- Swtpc6800 (talk) 02:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how it contains *any* copyrightable material at all (if that front sheet is indeed PD; that little graphic background bit at the top would normally be copyrightable I'd think). But basic titles on solid colors wouldn't pass the threshold of originality. If that was all the front cover was, that is fine too. The copyrighted part of the manual would be the text inside, but that's not shown obviously, and that has no relation on the copyrightability of the cover itself (which is a separate graphic work). Carl Lindberg (talk)

Thanks, I didn't think there was a problem. My first interaction with the Commons (July 2007) was when one of my images that was transferred to the Commons got a speedy delete. Commons:Deletion requests/Image:FloppyRom Magazine.jpg. -- Swtpc6800 (talk) 02:26, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Tips on mechanics and kosherness of snagging photos of old book plates

I don't understand [7] at all; it made more sense to me the first way.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:18, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Whoops, yep, fixed. Thanks. Somehow when I re-read my comment it registered the other way in my mind. Carl Lindberg (talk) 02:19, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Your name

User_talk:Martin_H.#.27stupid_wikilawerying.27...have a look.....Captain......Tälk tö me.. 04:33, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

FBI SVG seal

nice work, very nice work. Decora (talk) 23:33, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Wasn't my work at all. Just converted from a government PDF. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:33, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Italy off rights transation to US?

If it's off CR in Italy, will that make it off rights in US, or do we use our 1923 standard? Also, what if it were published in London. (God, I hope not in the U.S.) TCO (talk) 16:44, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

There would be two ways for it to be copyrighted in the U.S. First, if it was published with a copyright notice, and was renewed with the U.S. Copyright Office (i.e. followed all U.S. copyright formalities). In that case, it would still be under copyright regardless of anything else. Obviously, most foreign works did not do this, so most became public domain in the U.S. A few did however so it would be good to see if there was a notice on the copies you got (and if there was, many of the renewals are now online, so we could look. The second way is for copyright to have been restored by the URAA. For something first published 1923 or later in the UK and nowhere else, it would have had its full 95-year U.S. copyright restored, yes. If the song was first published in Italy, then their copyright terms would seem to have made this public domain well before 1996, so the URAA would not have applied to it. If it was simultaneously published (within 30 days of each other) in both the UK and Italy, it gets slightly more interesting, but the URAA in that case specifies the country with the "greatest contacts" to the work (which should definitely be Italy), and as for the country of origin the Berne Convention specifies the country with the shorter copyright term in that case, which would also be Italy. And, if the song was considered published before 1923, the URAA is completely irrelevant anyways. For uploading the actual 1932 sheet music, I would use the 1932 date, but if it looks to have been simultaneously published in Italy then even that publication should be OK in the U.S., by my reckoning. If something was simultaneously published in the U.S. as well, the URAA cannot apply, and we need to look for notice and renewals only. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:00, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks.TCO (talk) 18:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I saw the related discussion on the village pump and wanted to ask you: How did you know that Italy used 50 pma as of the URAA date? Is that information hiding around here somewhere that's easy to reference? VernoWhitney (talk) 22:13, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Mainly by looking at laws you can find online :-) http://www.wipo.int/wipolex/en/ has a huge collection of them... not always everything you need, but it has a lot, including many of the pre-1996 laws. w:Wikipedia:Non-U.S. copyrights (referenced in that discussion) pulls together a lot of it, but it's not complete -- many countries only have current licensing terms. But the Italy and France stuff is there, along with a bunch of others. A lot of the wipo.int links are now dead, though easily fixable -- if they are to a "text_html.jsp" page, it just needs to be changed to "details.jsp" with the rest of the URL the same. I'll get around to fixing them at some point. Carl Lindberg (talk) 23:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. I knew it should've been online somewhere, it's finding it in the first place and then remembering it for later that's trick. Cheers! VernoWhitney (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Toros de Osborne

Reopening Commons:Deletion requests/Toros de Osborne. Salud. --Javier ME (talk) 09:38, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!

		The Original Barnstar
		Thanks for your excellent contribution of State SVG seals, and for trying to help explain copyright to other users. Svgalbertian (talk) 23:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

free speech flag

thank you for your work on Free-speech-flag-ps3.svg Decora (talk) 14:34, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Seal of North Dakota

You wrongly consented to that file's deletion. While I got it from Vector Images, i altered the file greatly (and I can prove it!), and therefore I hold the rights. The file is now being requested for undeletion here. I don't appreciate this at all, and I will re-upload the file if I have to. I hold the rights and released it as PD. Fry1989 (talk) 19:53, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Answered at the undeletion request. Carl Lindberg (talk) 22:55, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Seal of Texas?

You wouldn't happen to have a PD-USGov version of the Seal of Texas would you? The current version just got deleted due to being a copyvio from vector-images.com. Thanks.--Svgalbertian (talk) 23:47, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I haven't found one -- one of the three missing states. Ugh. Category:State seals of Texas has several derivative works of that deleted one. The original upload of File:Texasstateseal.jpg is OK but not the overwrites. It should be possible to make one though -- that is not a complex seal; we mainly need oak and olive branches. I could also upload a graphic from a 1909 book, which at least would be a PD version, even if bitmap. Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:10, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Hm, the Texas PDF from the USGov source (archived here) does at least have a color bitmap. Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:15, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Uploaded that one at File:Texas-StateSeal.png. Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The 1909 one is now at File:Texas-StateSeal-1909Book.jpg. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:56, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I have created a quick and dirty version of the seal based on the 1909 drawing. See: File:Seal of Texas.svg. Thanks for your help!--Svgalbertian (talk) 14:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Cool. In reading more this morning, apparently in the 1950s the usual artwork was corrected to use live oak leaves, not post oak like the 1909 image sort of uses. There is also now "official" artwork dating from 1992 or so. I'm not sure what that means for copyright status of that "official" version. There is a USGov version of a Texas National Guard symbol here which does resemble the official version pretty closely (still a bitmap though). Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to make a version that I know would be safe. Trying to replicate the 1992 version might cause issues as the official version most likely carries copyright.--Svgalbertian (talk) 15:20, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah. We may want a version with leaves closer to the current design, at least. But the graphic you made looks rather good, and should at the very least be kept as a historical version (as I think that was basically the actual seal in use for a long time). Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Well now, look here. I think that may well be {{PD-EdictGov}}. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:28, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Interesting, although somewhat dubious, I wouldn't contest it (though I am sure others will).--Svgalbertian (talk) 15:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Nepal template

Can you help me make, or just create, a new template {{PD-NepalGov}} based on this discussion and the links I provided there? I looked at some other similar templates but could not figure out how to make it and saw that you had created some I viewed. The base period is 50 years. I have already added a redlink to Commons:Stamps/Public domain templates which is where we need it, though it will be good to to add Nepal to COM:L with full details too. Thanks Ww2censor (talk) 15:11, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. That seems like a 50 pma country... I do not see separate terms for government works in the law, so I'm not sure there should be a separate tag. Carl Lindberg (talk) 18:14, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

The discussion has been archived but the copyright law is on WIPO here and you are correct that it is a 50 year pma country though there is an exception for "work relating to applied art and photographic work" in Chapter 3, Section 14 #5. So what template should we be using? Thanks

Ww2censor (talk) 04:43, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it looks like they use the Berne minimum protection for photographs. I'm not sure we have a template for that situation, so a new one can make sense -- my point was it should probably just be named PD-Nepal, not PD-NepalGov, as the terms apply to all works there, not just governmental. One thorny little twist is that Nepal uses the Vikram Samvat calendar -- so "year created" etc. goes by those, and copyrights expire at the beginning of those years (mid-April in the Gregorian calendar, though the actual date can shift around by a couple days from year to year). That will make the template more of a challenge. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:24, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

So, can you help make this template as I am completely lost when I look at the file structure of such templates? Perhaps using end-of-April, or latest ever day, would get past any objections and who is really going to object for a few days when there are much worse things going on re serious copyvios. Thanks Ww2censor (talk) 15:25, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Money of Poland

I'd appreciate it if you took a look at this -- I'm inclined to "delete" -- but it hasn't had a lot of solid thinking. Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:22, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

One where you may want to weigh in

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Judgment Bus New Orleans 2011.jpg. I suspect you will have thoughts on this, and that they will be sounder than mine. - Jmabel ! talk 15:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

PD-ineligible ?

Hi, if you've got time, could you comment on this, thanks :-) --Tony Wills (talk) 11:41, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that checking, and your comments. --Tony Wills (talk) 21:37, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Run for Admin

I've raised this before, as have four of our colleagues. Given your knowledge, experience, and ability to stay cool, I think you'd make a perfect Admin.

It need not take much time -- five or ten actions every six months would take five or ten minutes. How many times have you wished you could see an image that was under discussion at Commons:Undeletion requests -- you almost certainly did at Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Photographs_of_R._E._by_Dontworry?

I'd be happy to nominate you.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:44, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Кашинская_писцовая_книга_л.61.jpg

I'd be interested in your thoughts here. Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons_talk:Licensing#Free_Art_License?

We don't always agree, but I always appreciate your thoughtful comments. Am I off base here? Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:22, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Help request

Hi, because of your very helpful and knowledgeable comments over at [8] I've decided to be a bit bold here and ask for a bit of help. Basically I want to upload the first image (maybe the subsequent ones too) from this website [9] under the ({PD-Poland}) license ([10]). It appears to satisfy all three criteria; it is a photograph, the author was Leonard Jabrzemski (this took some searching, particularly since there was another Polish wartime photographer named Jabrzemski), a Pole, and the photo was published in Poland before 1994 (in a 1970 Album - there might have been prior publication in Poland). However, going through the uploading procedures I don't know how to properly indicate the PD-Poland license since that is not one of the options. Do I just add the template after the image has been uploaded, and if so, which option do I choose?

Thanks ahead of time.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:08, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Pennsylvania-StateSeal.svg

User:Fry1989 seems to be obsessed with a "clean" display of categories, and sometimes resorts to dubious measures to obtain this. No matter how many times he is told that categories are comprehensive while galleries are selective, it never changes his behavior... AnonMoos (talk) 04:58, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

I tried; we'll see how it goes. He seemed receptive to today's message. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:24, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

URI or URL

Hi Carl, I remember from the long & hot disputed DR over Wolfgang Pehlemanns credit requirements and now from this comment, that you are convinced that use of CC-BY-SA-licensed images/works requires only to provide the URI (instead of the URL) to/of the license. However, this opinion has been contested here (in German) by Gnu1742, quite convincingly in my opinion. As I value your expertise in licensing matters as well as Gnu1742's, I would welcome if you could talk to each other some day over this issue. --Túrelio (talk) 08:07, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

The CC license explicitly says URI. But yes, if you define URI as being either a URN or URL, and there is no defined namespace for a license URN (given that those do have an explicit syntax), it may effectively mean a URL. You may be able to argue something like "license:cc-by-sa-3.0" could qualify, as being an invented URI scheme, not sure -- there is no explicit requirement that the URI be a commonly-used scheme. Obviously a URL should be used if possible, but I'm not sure the technical definition (as updated by the various RFCs) is necessarily the same as the legal definition -- I'd find it hard to believe another form would violate the license depending on the medium of use. Even a Creative Commons page gives an example of "Some Other Song” by fourstones, available under a Creative Commons Attribution license as a valid way to credit a song as part of a video, and the FAQ for proper attribution just says Cite the specific CC license the work is under. If you are publishing on the Internet, it is nice if the license citation links to the license on the CC website. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:29, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:National Archives and Records Administration/Error reporting

By popular demand, error reporting is here! I'm just letting you know personally since you've been involved in one of the threads related to errors encountered in the NARA catalog. If you can add error reports to that page from now on, we'll have an easier time relaying them to the NARA digital description staff, and we'll be able to track our progress. Let me know if you have any problems using the page; I already added one report as an example. Providing corrections for mistakes in the online catalog is one of the best ways we can show demonstrable benefits to the institution, and you'll be helping all the other users of the archives, so it's really useful. Thanks! Dominic (talk) 23:46, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Further question on FoP

You might remember our discussion at Commons talk:Freedom of panorama/Archive 7#Can some explain "no FOP?". In that discussion we agreed that it was the policy of Commons that an image had to be free both in the country of origin and in the United States, but only the latter applied on the English Wikipedia, so images from countries without FoP such as the UAE were okay to be uploaded there as they would be free in the United States. You reached this conclusion by arguing that the US would apply its own FoP standards even for architecture/artistic works from other countries, which makes sense. However, I am completing a presentation on FoP for Wikimania 2011 and there is one issue with this I have noticed with this - only buildings are covered by FoP in the United States. So if this argument is correct, how can images of sculptures from countries with a near comprehensive FoP such as Germany be free in the United States? Even if they are free in the country of origin (e.g. Germany), they still need to be free in the US too for Commons? Could you clarify this for me please? CT Cooper · talk 11:14, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Copyright of International Organizations

I am not sure why you are so determined to disregard everything I say as well as disregard the very point of my main argument. Fine. Do as you please. Delete all existing logos ranging from the UN logo to NATO and prevent upload of international organizations whom would have no way to pursue copyright in any way. You are doing commons a great service. Commons as always finds new lows to disappoint me. -- とある白い猫 ^ちぃ？ 16:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Your argument appears to be international organizations cannot own copyright because they are not conceptually located in any particular country -- I tried to show you (not ignoring you) that that logic does not hold up; most countries explicitly grant copyright to those organizations (even in the absence of the Berne Convention) and anyways, protection for Berne countries is based on country of publication -- and those organizations typically do make the actual publications in a particular country. Additionally, Berne by default grants copyright automatically; any special loophole for international organizations would have to be explicit if it exists, as otherwise they are a legal entity just as any other corporation. If I am misunderstanding that argument, please explain it again. There are indeed many ways though that such logos can be kept, and I was arguing why the UN flag/logo should be kept, but instead using my understanding of what copyright law should apply. Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:53, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

International organizations unless explicitly stated cannot own copyright. That is why United Nations is in the copyright law as being an exception. Otherwise the mere mention wouldn't be necessary in US Copyright Law. UN is given this privilege to allow it to publish works like post cards or other publications to collect donations for sub-UN bodies like UNESCO by selling such items for profit. The copyright might extend to the UN logo - though I doubt it. International organizations typically are exempt from copyright primarily not to give any single country advantage of another. This is a direct result of extraterritoriality.

Also the copyright of countries do not necessarily match so if we take NATO for example, just the individual main headquarters and agencies are distributed to 5+ countries. Functioning would be difficult if people had copyright issues all the time. Majority of the people working for NATO for instance aren't contract blinded employees but instead citizens of member states who work on a specific office for a limited duration of time tasked by their respective governments. Multiple people of multiple countries work on practically all documents. The work itself often is never "published" outside of the extraterritorial headquarters. Also copyright would prevent member nations from copying the material such as official recordings/transcripts of sessions, logos, flags.

In the case of UN, they have a very special status and really complicates the discussion on "copyright of logos and flags of international organizations in general" unnecessarily. Even so, they specifically requested exception from the US copyright law to allow stuff like works by US federal government employees to remain copyrighted. Likewise they have a less restrictive equivalent for US fair-use (educational use). Their special status may even exempt them from other clauses of fair-use. Since fair-use isn't welcome on commons that is a moot point.

Publication of works (like books postcard and etc) are often neither made for or by international organizations itself. They are instead outsourced outside of the headquarters buildings themselves by registered companies (with some extraterritorial privileges if at all) on behalf of the International Organizations. This is done to circumvent the "loophole" I mentioned. How copyright applies in such cases is beyond what I want to do here on commons so it is also a moot point as far as I care. I am not seeking to find a way to bring official publications to commons through a loophole.

So for logos and flags for organizations like Interpol, African Union, World Trade Organization you'd find that they will be unable to pursue a "copyright" to limit or prevent the use of these logos as a side effect of extraterritoriality which is necessary to allow member states to use such logos and flags.

-- とある白い猫 ^ちぃ？ 05:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I've never seen it stated that international organizations cannot own copyright. Can you provide some references on that? The UN is probably special as that is closer to a "world government" type of thing, rather than a normal organization. In general, international organizations are treated like legal entities I would think (they are entitled to bring lawsuits, etc., I'm pretty sure), and it would stand to reason they can own copyright just like any other legal entity, particularly under Berne. These organizations certainly all claim copyright. The mention of the UN and OAS is because those are explicit treaty requirements of the respective charters when the U.S. joined them -- I don't think that implies anything for other organizations. On the other hand, I think that does make those organizations subject to the normal notice and renewal laws, and I doubt the URAA helped them, though it might have if a publication can be shown to have been first published elsewhere, though those are probably rare. Also, the U.S. gives protection to *all* unpublished works, regardless of the nationality of the author. So, works are either protected because they are unpublished, or they are published in some country and gets protection based on that. And while the UN HQ has some measure of extraterritoriality, it is still in general subject to U.S. law (any crimes committed on the grounds will go through U.S. courts using U.S. law). I also doubt that many other organizations' HQs have similar status. The US Government employee thing is interesting -- I don't recall a special exemption in US law for that, like there is for the Post Office, but in general I would think at least for the UN works would be deemed works for hire given the explicit bit in U.S. law. That may have implications for USGov employees working for NATO, I guess. But in general, the U.S. will give corporate entities a 95-years-from-publication-or-120-years-from-creation-whichever-is-shorter term, and other countries without an explicit term would give it the anonymous works term (unless an author is identified). But my guess, particularly after Berne, is that international organizations are treated like any other foreign organization, and able to hold copyright. There are good arguments for PD status on the UN logo within the above limits, and NATO too. But many international organizations are closer to private entities in nature, and it feels (to me) as though we need to treat their logos under normal copyright rules -- I really can't see grounds otherwise, unfortunately. It may be difficult to determine a "country of origin" for Commons policy, agreed, but failing that we should probably just follow U.S. law on the matter. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Do you know what extraterritoriality entails? Yes UN has an EXCEPTION because it explicitly agreed (and perhaps requested since adding it to the law required congress to pass it probably) for it. That is by no means the standard. International organizations cannot function without extraterritoriality. Even so, even if someone is murdered in UN HQ it would require permission for US police to even try to investigate it. You are confusing international organizations is with NGOs.

I have not heard an international organization filing a lawsuit (except UN maybe because of their special agreement). I do not believe such a thing is possible at all unless explicit copyright agreements were reached with a Berne signatory (yes like what UN has with US I know...). Can you cite a single example? I cannot cite something that cannot be done. At best I would find a news article of such an attempt getting rejected but I doubt any international organization tried such a thing because they too know the problems of attempting such a thing.

The legal argument is getting us nowhere. You will never agree to my point unless I cite you a legal document or law explicitly giving exemption to copyright - I cannot provide that since my argument is that such a thing isn't even needed. And I will not agree with your standpoint where you are essentially downgrading international organizations to NGOs.

Why are we able to host flags and coat of arms of countries on Commons? Do we have evidence that these are freely licensed? How is this any different from International Organizations.

Also on an unrelated note, why do you not have a userpage?

-- とある白い猫 ^ちぃ？ 16:45, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I just don't think that this type of extraterritoriality, to the extent it exists, has any real effect on copyrightability. In the UN case, that is more for the physical headquarters anyways. You'd think that fact (automatic ineligibility for copyright for international organizations) would be mentioned somewhere. Part of the original UN treaty was to make sure they were allowed copyright (remember they predated the UCC, and the US was not a member of Berne then, so it was probably necessary). So yes, every UN country has to allow them copyright. From what I have seen, every single one of these international organizations claim copyright, and I fail to see how U.S. law exempts them -- really, under Berne, everything is copyrighted unless there is an explicit exception from what I see. The EU has specific copyright claims (including the design of the euro), as does NATO, etc., etc. Organizations like the Olympics, Doctors Without Frontiers, etc. are NGOs really as well. While many of these organizations are typically exempt from criminal law (mentioned e.g. in this article) I don't think they are exempt from civil law, which is usually where copyright lies anyways. I guess this isn't going anywhere, if you believe their status means they can't copyright anything (wouldn't that also mean that nobody could sue them, because there would be no country to sue them in?). I most certainly do not, and have never seen any indication for that to be true. All of these organizations clearly own U.S. trademarks on a great many logos (e.g. here); I can't fathom how they would be allowed to own a trademark but not a copyright. Several of them do have per-country organizations (such as the USOC or the American Red Cross) which makes that kind of thing easier, but those administer material really owned by the international organizations as far as I can tell. There is nothing in the wording of U.S. copyright law which would indicate to me that these organizations cannot claim copyright -- merely simultaneously publishing a work in at least one Berne or UCC country would do it, so far as I can tell. 17 U.S.C. 104 doesn't leave much room for other interpretations, to me.

As far as countries go, the U.S. does not recognize copyright in the content of law or other legal edicts (be it in the U.S. or elsewhere) -- that has been the subject of several court cases, and does not apply to most works of governments. That may apply in some cases for EU directives, or WTO decisions, or that kind of thing where there is a real legal effect, but definitely not all works, and it is a very specific exemption to copyright law. Flags and coats of arms are typically defined in such laws however. The UN does disclaim copyright in certain types of its documents, and arguments can definitely be made that they lost copyright control over the symbol a long time ago. Also, read Commons:Coats of Arms -- there is generally not a copyright in the idea of the design, only in the actual artistic representation, so individual artists (whether they are employed by a government or not) can hold copyright over specific representations. The same often goes for flags; the general design is not a subject for copyright when it comes to arms and flags. For example, the contributors to Flags of the World should own the copyright on the bitmap images they submit, unless they are too simple for copyright to exist. We therefore do not allow people to just take images of arms or flags off of external websites -- the ones we have are generally actually drawn by wikipedia contributors, or are from other open source art collections. Sometimes similar logic can apply for international organizations, absolutely. It gets dicier in the case of logos, without any written description or specification. There are also cases like the WTO logo, which was made by a Singaporean and the copyright was later transferred to the organization... it can get difficult. But I try to limit arguments to well-known concepts of copyright law... your claim of extraterritoriality essentially defeating copyright claims simply does not ring true to me at all. Carl Lindberg (talk) 22:03, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I really think we should agree to disagree on the entire debate. I will say something and you will find it insufficient and likewise it is the same for me.

So why is it that African Union logo/flag isn't allowed on commons then?

Also please carry the conversation to both talk pages.

-- とある白い猫 ^ちぃ？ 17:16, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

• I know nothing of the subject (good way to start any contribution ;-), and I don't really understand the ways in which organisations or other 'legal people' (who are not actual people) own copyright, other than it being transfered from the people who actually (creatively) create it. But my point is (I got here eventually), if a body (super-national or not) was deemed to not be able to hold copyright, then that just means that the creator(s) of the item still does? No? --Tony Wills (talk) 11:35, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Freedom of panorama and Wikimedia Commons presentation

Since your advice was very helpful for producing it, I thought I should let you know I have uploaded my presentation at File:Freedom of panorama and Wikimedia Commons.pdf after presenting it at Wikimania 2011 a week ago. The presentation itself was video recorded, but that is not yet available. CT Cooper · talk 21:28, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

License change

You might add your expertise/opinion here. --Túrelio (talk) 20:31, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Template:PD-PhilippineGov

Carl:

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:12, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

The Guidance Barnstar

		The Guidance Barnstar
		... for your help others to locate valuable resources, information such as [11]. --Snek01 (talk) 23:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Query on Wikiwatcher1's Stanley Kubrick photoes

For non-free images on Wikipedia, the deadline for resolving deletion disputes is 7 days. When (more or less) will we resolve the Stanley Kubrick photos that User:Wikiwatcher1 uploaded here to commons. As one of the chief custodians (on a de facto basis) of the Kubrick article, I would like to know.--WickerGuy (talk) 17:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

And also, can you give a succinct summary of the copyright status of a book that has a collection of photos of which some lack individual copyright status? Regards,--WickerGuy (talk) 17:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Deletion requests should usually go for at least seven days, but there is no deadline. Once admins think there is no new information coming, they will make their best judgement. That often happens after seven days but if there is continued debate, or a decision is hard, it could stay open for a long while.

As for the general question, being in a book changes nothing about their copyright status (unless the book itself has no copyright notice). It's not evidence for anything by itself, though of course the book could contain provenance information which can help. To be public domain, a work needed to have been published without a copyright notice -- we'd need at least a solid indication that both publishing happened, and that no copyright notice was present when it did. Publishing in a book guarantees the first one, but also means the latter part is hardly ever the case (and even more than that, the book would normally get registered with the Copyright Office, which triggers a couple more things, including much higher penalties for infringement and also meaning it's a lot more likely to survive a PD-US-no_notice claim -- the 1976 Act allowed a registration to counteract a publication without notice in some circumstances).

For File:Kubrick-Shining-Nicholson.jpg, I personally think there should be no hope, as while it was published in a book, there is no evidence of publication without copyright notice, and being a 1980 photo it would not need to be renewed (and also got the more lenient rules of the 1976 Copyright Act -- it was harder to prove PD status after that). There is no indication whatsoever it was published separately from what I see. It seems like a photo the studio had on hand, and made available to the book author, and that would be that -- it's copyrighted until 2076 or so. Back in the 40s and 50s, it was apparently common for movie studios to distribute head shots of actors and actresses by themselves, which would be publication and if there was no notice on them, copyright was lost, so some of the other photos seem like they have a better chance of staying. But that does not mean that every photo owned by a movie studio can use the same logic for public domain status. File:Kubrick-Lyndon.jpg looks to be in a similar situation. File:Kubrick-Fear-LoBrutto.jpg... not as sure, but no evidence for separate distribution outside the book has been offered up. If the only evidence is being in a book with no copyright notice, that is not evidence at all unfortunately. If some of those photos have no other source information, that may mean you could contact the book authors and try to get permission that way... but failing something like that, it looks to me as though most of the images in the Kubrick article are in jeopardy. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:52, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

That is very useful. Thank you.--WickerGuy (talk) 20:57, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind chiming in, since although the logic and conclusions by CL are reasonable, some of the premises they're based on are less so. But this subject has now been discussed in a number of places in the Commons during the past few weeks, so I'm not sure where to comment. Should this topic be discussed in a more open forum, rather than the more private user talk? There are clearly some facts not mentioned that imply opposite conclusions than the ones CL arrives at.--Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 18:41, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I was trying to get a succinct summary of the discussion so far based on what was mentioned in other places, so best to take new points elsewhere, IMO.--WickerGuy (talk) 23:57, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Reply to your comment at UDR

Hi Carl, in reply to this: I did not personally attack Jcb. I did just comment on his admin activity - and the stuff which is going on here recently really annoys me. And what is the cause? These admin actions at the end because another file got deleted. He got the message. Yes, I know, not by using the best way - sorry for this. I really try to avoid it, I do not like it, I do not like what is happening with our beloved Commons and that we all are wasting our time here. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 01:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, not awful, but... it was beginning to border on personal, to me ;-) The "admin from 2005" bit, and the barnstar most of all. Born out of frustration, yes, legitimate issue, yes, but it felt like the criticism was veering into areas which threatened to derail the main point, that's all -- seemed to me the line had been crossed a little bit, that's all. Carl Lindberg (talk) 02:42, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Carl - appreciate your comments. I am not sure if the "Wikipedia admin of 2005" was understood in the way I meant it. I wanted to refer to those times when disk space was short (or thought to be short) and unused pictures were deleted (also from disk). Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 15:51, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:水は方園の器に.jpg

A question that may interest you.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:29, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

The Commons Barnstar

		The Commons Barnstar
		... for your knowledgeable, balanced and dedicated support in many cases dealing with difficult copyright issues e.g. undeletion discussion about File:EveMillerInKansasPacific1.png. Groetjes -- Neozoon (talk) 20:40, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Question: Copyvio Tags

Newbie (me) wants to know if simply tagging an image in Commons as a speedy delete and/or copyvio with a reason is all that's required to get the ball rolling for it to be reviewed by an Admin for deletion. Is there a Bot that picks up the tags, or should editors post the deletion request somewhere else?Atsme (talk) 15:39, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Speedy tags put them in a category which admins will go through. See Commons:Deletion policy, and Commons:Deletion requests/Speedy deletion for a bit more on how to do it. Those are reserved for obvious cases though. If there is any possibility of debate, it is better to put up a regular deletion request. That can be done wit the "Nominate for deletion" link on the file pages. That especially goes if you are challenging long-standing practice like Commons:Stamps/Public_domain#Moldova. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

25-year typographical arrangement copyright

Hi Clindberg, if you have the time, could you elaborate a little bit more about the "25-year typographical arrangement copyright", which you mentioned in the now archived Commons:Undeletion_requests/Archive UR discussion about the 3 Atheist campaign tube images, at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Atheist campaign tube3.jpg, which I have re-opened just to check/discuss for this aspect. Thanks. --Túrelio (talk) 06:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:"Appreciate America. Come On Gang. All Out for Uncle Sam" (Mickey Mouse)" - NARA - 513869 - cropped and tidied.png

Would you take a look at this please? -- I opened it mostly based on your comments at Commons:Deletion requests/File:"Appreciate America. Come On Gang. All Out for Uncle Sam" (Mickey Mouse)" - NARA - 513869.tif. I think I understand the issues, but maybe you can explain it better than I. Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:07, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey Carl, could you please comment on round 2. I still have substantial concerns about this image. Thanks! Kaldari (talk) 18:54, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Your opinion please

Greetings!

I have found you to be able to make particularly wise and well-informed comments on liscensing issues.

Do you weigh in on liscensing issues on images on the English language wikipedia?

I came across this image -- w:File:Obaidullah photo.PDF -- which had questionable and contradictory liscensing. I tried to draft a fair use rationale that would start to bring it into compliance. I also initiated a discussion of the image at Wikipedia:Non-free content review#File:Obaidullah photo.PDF

Another contributor removed the purpose field from that attempt I had made to draft a compliant fair use rationale, and nominated the file for deletion at Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2011 October 23#File:Obaidullah photo.PDF

I know that if a source can't be found the image can't be kept. If a source can be found however, the original photographer would either be his original Afghan friends, family or neighbours, or Afghan security officials, or American security officials. Can you remind me of your opinion of the IP status of unpublished images taken by Afghan citizens, in Afghanistan?

It is my opinion that my challenger lapsed by:

1. Initiating a deletion discussion when I had already initiated a review discusion;
2. Not informing those participating in the review discussion that they had initiated a deletion discussion;
3. Their decision to excise the key field from the fair use rationale rather than state they disagreed with it;
4. I also think it was intemperate to call my initial draft a "rant" -- FWIW.

I'd be grateful if you would offer your opinion on the copyright status of unpublished Afghan images, either here, or there.

Thanks! Geo Swan (talk) 17:06, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

w:Template:PD-HHOFFMANN

If you're up for the task, I think this template could use a rewrite. The cited source is a dead link, and the text itself doesn't really seem completely accurate even to a copyright novice like me. I thought it would mention that the work has differing copyright states based on jurisdiction and explain the difference between the English Wikipedia and Commons regarding country of origin, but instead the template seems to take the US point of view, stating unequivocally that the work "...is considered public domain because..." I expected this to be much more carefully written than it is. Dominic (talk) 15:55, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

That template is on the English Wikipedia only; indeed there are different situations in different jurisdictions, but en-wiki is typically only concerned with U.S. copyright law so other aspects are not really mentioned. It probably should have a note to not move such images to Commons though. The situation with seized WWII material is very complicated, but there was the court case which basically explicitly ruled they were PD (there is a special exemption of the URAA which did not restore some such copyrights) so there is little doubt of that status in the U.S. (and also little doubt in Germany -- they are 70 pma there). With dead links, you can always look at the Internet Archive to see if there are old versions -- in this case there is, here. Carl Lindberg (talk) 03:31, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Corrections to Indian or Inuit image descriptions

You mentioned on Dominick'c talk page that you have found more errors in these uploads. Are you maintaining an errata list, or is someone? the lists on Dominick's talk page appear static. I've found a couple more switches, which you may already know about.

File:Buffalo dance of the Mandans, 1833 - 1834 - NARA - 530978.jpg‎

switched with File:Medicine Man Charlie Turquoise (third from right) leads a group of Navajo dancers, Fort Wingate, New Mexico, 1941 - NARA - 531134.jpg

Buffalo Dance of the Mandans is a pretty famous image and we already have several other versions. I'd like to know more about the origin of the NARA B&W versions of Bodmer's works.

File:Great Camp of the Piekanns near Fort McKenzie, Montana, 1833 - NARA - 530976.jpg‎ switched with

File:Bird's eye view of Sioux camp at Pine Ridge, South Dakota, 11-28-1890 - NARA - 530802.tif

I put the Select List urls on the pages (except the last). I will file renames on these within the next couple days. If you have more, I could do some more. Dankarl (talk) 14:55, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

There are a couple more referenced in Commons:National_Archives_and_Records_Administration/Error_reporting, particularly one at the bottom. My guess is that if we go through the entire select list, a majority of them would have a problem. It would seem that the program adding the ARC records had an issue with the images, and was often off by one, often in whole blocks. If you don't want to move images around (cleanest in some ways, but those are huge files we would be duplicating) then maybe completely swapping descriptions is the better way to go -- including retaining the NARA-image-full template, and pointing to the ARC record which has the correct description (or at least noting the two ARC records, one with the description, and one with the image). I don't like removing all the relevant information and pointers, the way it was done with File:An Uainuint Paiute aiming a rifle, southwestern Utah - NARA.tif. It's a simple image swap issue at NARA; the ARC record with the correct description would have all the correct source info I'd think. That one should be pointing to ARC record 517730, as that has the correct information on the image, except that the Digital Image with it is wrong -- that record provides far more information about it than the select list page does. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:28, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm coming around to Dominic's opinion that simply keeping the names the same, and just uploading the correct image for that name, is the easiest approach, and doesn't have to involve anyone else. Dominic's bot could probably handle things itself if NARA would fix their records, but obviously we can't rely on any sort of a timeframe for that. Is there a way to purge the bad revisions later, which could free up disk space? Carl Lindberg (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Carl - Thanks for the pointer to the errata page.

I don't intend to leave the NARA descriptions off forever, but to put them up in an interim basis implies, to me, a degree of "officialness" and confidence that I am not ready to ascribe to either my fixes or the original uploads. Also the Select List descriptions sometimes have the photographer and/or location when ARC does not. We'll get all these fixed eventually but I don't want to propagate errors so I'm putting up only what I know. See also my response on Dominick's page. Dankarl (talk) 23:06, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

From what I've seen, the ARC record seems to have everything (sometimes you need to look in one of the other tabs, or the info is just in the title, the group record, or something like that). I think they even reference the Select List number (this one certainly does). But, nothing wrong adding a link to the Select List either. Leaving off the NARA descriptions means that likely we will forget to re-add them someday, which would just make this situation worse than it already is. I think the quickest solution is to simply upload the correct image associated with the description and ARC number, so it is all consistent. That will not risk messing anything up, I don't think, and can be done by us without waiting for NARA and any automated solution. I have not come across any ARC record which was internally inconsistent, other than having the wrong "Digital Copy" associated with it, so I think I'd prefer to just fix them along those lines -- fix the image and not the description, which is otherwise correct  :-) Carl Lindberg (talk) 23:24, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Take for instance ARC 531119 "Eskimo dance orchestra, including..." The Select List entry has the photographer listed as Stanley Morgan, while ARC has "Author unknown or not provided" (in the template as uploaded ) and I can't see anything to the contrary on any tab of the ARC page I get by clicking the number 531119 in the template display. If I've missed a whole section please provide both a url and instructions how to find the next one.

I'm willing to put the templates back in after a little checking, but I've got some questions. I'll post them to Dominick's page, since that's where people will look first. Dankarl (talk) 02:19, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Hm, that is interesting. It's possible, reading this, that Stanley Morgan was the only Signal Corps person at Point Barrow, so it could be deduced that way -- the Select List pages list him as the photographer for several of those photos. (Morgan seems to have been the person to first reach the crash site where Will Rogers died.) But, that information never made it back to the ARC records, it would seem. The UMIACS page on it doesn't seem to have an author either. The images do have a Signal Corps Identification Number on them... I wonder if there was some corresponding documentation there. Anyways, interesting. May as well add that (the "Unknown or not provided" means the parameter in the template was blank). Carl Lindberg (talk) 07:07, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Interesting article Dankarl (talk) 14:13, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

There are no pending renames. The four switched files I listed above are the only ones I know about that do not appear in one of the errata lists. I'll update Dominick's page with a list of the renames I put through Dankarl (talk) 20:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

BTW the first pair above, and wrong image for 530976 also appear in the errata page.Dankarl (talk) 20:31, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

So did you get a chance to try any uploads? Dankarl (talk) 22:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Not just yet -- Dominic indicated many have been fixed at NARA but not yet updated. A few things came up in personal life too. Still, I'll have a go at the four images you have noted above tonight. Carl Lindberg (talk) 23:25, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay, done those. The TIFs are only 5-7MB (I wast thinking more like 70) so this really isn't a big deal at all. Carl Lindberg (talk) 06:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

PD in Israel, but not outside?

Hi Clindberg, in case you are interested, your comment in Commons:Deletion requests/File:Beit Alpha 1933.jpg might be welcome. --Túrelio (talk) 11:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

(un)deletion of some of our files

Many thanks for your help and suggestions. We will proceed accordingly. With best, ESDC Secretariat

Some sculptures

Base on some remarks you made recently, I was wondering whether these photos of mine might be usable on Commons: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmabel/sets/72157621064485137/. They are post-1923, but pre-1978; I doubt there was any proper copyright, but wouldn't know where to begin to work it out. - Jmabel ! talk 22:34, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Benjamin Haldane and other known photographers in the Wellcome collection (NARA)

I was wondering what license to use for these. They clearly are not government works. A few may have been distributed widely enough at the time they were made to constitute publication, and the Josiah Guthrie portraits may nave been works for hire. In most cases they were private portraits and there is no indication Wellcome got anything more than a copy. Haldane died in 1941 so they could be PD-old (or be so in a month - how do you count?) but there is that nasty 1989-2002 period when publication would extend the copyright. If I understand the timing, NARA got the images in 1961. Do we know when they started distributing the digital files? What date counts? see category Benjamin Alfred Haldane and [12]. Dankarl (talk) 02:32, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Village pump/Copyright#Generic questions, using Kroger as an example

Thanks for the info, Carl Lindberg!

I've never posted in Commons, so I'm not sure of the protocol. Should I have posted a brand new question? Also, I couldn't find a Talkback type template that worked right...

Could you please look back at Commons:Village pump/Copyright#Generic questions, using Kroger as an example? I'll have a followup about another Kroger logo, but the Ford examples I cite might influence my understanding.

If I don't respond right away it's because I may be off Wiki for the next few weeks due to holiday functions. Thanks again! --Chaswmsday (talk) 00:03, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

U know ur stuff well!

Carl - Thanks for the paragraph on why anonymous people can be involved it copyrights. Very good! Your discussion needs to be saved so it isn't just archived into nowhere. Is there an appropriate place for such things? Doug youvan (talk) 14:19, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

+1 Rd232 (talk) 09:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Discussion moved

A discussion you were involved in has been moved to Commons:Village pump/Copyright. Please continue the discussion there. Thank you. Rd232 (talk) 09:35, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Occidental Avenue South (Seattle, Washington).jpg

Could I ask you to look in at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Occidental Avenue South (Seattle, Washington).jpg? You usually are sharper on borderline copyright cases than I am, and I don't really want to keep arguing with two people who are becoming increasingly personal about it, since I really have nothing further substantive to add. - Jmabel ! talk 18:51, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

A couple more switches

I have identified a couple more photo switches; these apply also to the respective TIFs. I wonder if you could upload the correct versions?

• File:Celebration, Metlakahtla. Alaska. Church visible in background on left. - NARA - 297977.jpg
• File:Bandstand and rostrum erected soon after the landing 0f Metlakahtlans on Annette Island, Alaska. - NARA - 297978.jpg

• File:Class in session in Duncan's school, fire under chimney in foreground. - NARA - 297858.jpg
• File:View of Metlakahtla, Alaska. - NARA - 297857.jpg

These are currently catagorized according to the (incorrect) image, not the description. Thanks, Dankarl (talk) 19:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Done. In the future, you might report them at Commons:National Archives and Records Administration/Error reporting first (I've done that for these), then just let me know. Carl Lindberg (talk) 02:34, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Will do. Dankarl (talk) 20:48, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

3D artwork in a public place

Hi. :) Since you took part in this conversation, I just wanted to let you know that the legal team has been looking into this question. One of the legal interns has posted some thoughts on the matter at the village pump. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 19:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

The content now lives at Commons:Public art and copyrights in the US. Kaldari (talk) 08:46, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

As somebody else said at the village pump: nice to see that this essentially confirms our understanding. I might add that the latter is essentially based on the discussions at Template talk:PD-US-statue/proposal some three years ago. It's reassuring to see that the new Commons:Public art and copyrights in the US seems to agree with the tentative table there. Lupo 11:12, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

COM:TOO example

Hi Carl, File:Hercules 1998 Intertitle.png is listed at COM:TOO as an example, but the discussion at Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2011/07#File:Hercules_1998_Intertitle.png suggests it should be proposed for deletion again because of the background complexity. Would you do that, if you agree? Rd232 (talk) 13:52, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Request for help

Hello Clindberg! User:Túrelio recommended you as the undisputed copyright guru, so I've come to you for a somewhat complicated copyright question. I've recently submitted an image for deletion (Commons:Deletion requests/File:Fort Lachine.jpg) and was hoping you could provide some input. When I originally uploaded the image, I thought it was published before 1923 and in the public domain in the US. However, with a little more research and help from other Commons editors, it was discovered that the image came from a book that was published in Belgium in 1927 (I don't believe it was ever copyrighted in the US). Since then, I've become concerned that the image isn't in the public domain in the US because its copyright was restored by the Uruguay Round Agreements Act. After reading this table (under Works Published Abroad Before 1978) on the Cornell University website, the book from which the Fort Lachine image was taken would fall under the following category: "Solely published abroad, without compliance with US formalities or republication in the US, and not in the public domain in its home country as of 1 January 1996" for material published 1923 through 1977. Therefore, the US copyright would expire 95 years after initial publication. The book was published in 1927, so it appears to be under copyright in the US until 2022. This is in agreement with Wikipedia:Non-U.S. copyrights and the current Commons license tags for non-US works. Therefore, I suspect that the image should be tagged with {{Not-PD-US-URAA}} and deleted. If you have time, could you please provide your opinion on this matter. Kindest regards, --AlphaEta (talk) 14:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Use of the image

Hello, Clindberg!

User:Jmabel advised to address to you. I placed an emblem of the Wiki any doubts about the possibility of its use. On the one hand, according to Russian law national symbols freely used. But can I use a particular image it conveyed to me in the city administration. Regards, Yuri We are talking about this file: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gerb_kineshma_ivanovskaya_oblast.jpg

with respect, yuri

--Юрген1986 (talk) 20:29, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:The Lost Prince.djvu

The work was speedily deleted after the enWS contributor believed that the images are copyright (presumably based on UK copyright thoughts). It is a US work and we need to chase it down through there and if you are able to assist that would be great, or at least some of your informed opinion would be great.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Undeletion_requests:Current_requests/File:Churubusco_map.png

Thanks for your help with this. Because it was closed rather quickly, I left a note at User_talk:Davodd#Commons:Undeletion_requests:Current_requests/File:Churubusco_map.png.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 02:15, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Trying to understand the application of URAA: a concrete example

You seem to have a good understanding of many of the nuances of copyright and the URAA. I am trying to ensure I understand it, and I have a specific example (which is not hypothetical; we have Commons images, which I tagged as Not-PD-US-URAA based on my understanding at the time). The Rite of Spring, by Igor Stravinsky, was first published in an arrangement for piano four-hands in 1913, I believe in France (Stravinsky lived in Switzerland at the time, but most of his commercial activity was taking place in France). For the sake of current argument, let's assume it was published in France, and let's also just look at this version and ignore the fact that the full orchestral arrangement wasn't published until 1921, though I think the end result is very similar if we assume Switzerland and/or count from the 1921 publication. Stravinsky died in 1971. It appears to me that France's rule is, and has been for some time, 70 years pma. Time is added to the duration (now only for musical works, but that's what this is) for each of the World Wars, but for the sake of simplicity for the moment I will ignore that. It appears that The Rite of Spring (and Stravinsky's other compositions that were first published in France) remains under copyright in France for several more decades (January 1, 2042, plus the extra time for each war). Since it was under copyright in the origin nation as of the restoration date, it would have been eligible to have its copyright restored under URAA. However, you commented that the URAA restored works to what their copyright status would have been if they had been first published in the US, correctly registered, and correctly renewed. If I understand correctly, a work such as The Rite of Spring would remain PD-1923 in the US (but of course still copyrighted in France) despite URAA. Did I get that right, or am I misapplying some aspect? Thanks for you help, cmadler (talk) 07:02, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

That's correct. Something published in 1913 would have become PD in the U.S. on Jan 1, 1989 if it had correctly followed all formalities, so the restoration had no effect. For something published in 1921, it actually would have been restored with a 75-years-from-publication term, and its U.S. copyright was valid throughout 1996. However, its U.S. copyright expired again on January 1, 1997. Stuff published in 1922 (in the U.S. or elsewhere) expired on January 1, 1998, as normal. During the year in 1998, the U.S. extended terms to 95 years from publication, so there is a 20-year freeze of copyright expirations in the U.S. On January 1, 2019, works published in 1923 are scheduled to expire. But yes, anything published before 1923 is still PD in the U.S., regardless of the URAA. Stravinsky's copyright in France will last a good long time, as you say. Something published in 1913 would get the extension of both wars, something published in 1921 would just get the WWII extension. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:21, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

URAA and French works

Hello, I am having a new doubt. Please see what I wrote here. Teofilo (talk) 15:39, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Works of Maurice Ravel

Hi Carl, FYI Hsarrazin is a French jurist specialized in documentation. If there is someone who knows how French copyright works, it is certainly her. Regards, Yann (talk) 20:30, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Clindberg. You have new messages at Commons_talk:Licensing#Romania_-_extension_of_copyright. You may remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Eurovision Song Contest 2012 logo

Hello, there is an unanswered copyright issue at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Eurovision Song Contest 2012 logo.svg, and since you have a strong familiarity with copyright law, I thought I would ask you for your input. We have established that File:Eurovision Song Contest 2012 logo.svg is PD in the US, but the question remains outstanding on what about the country of origin? Could you please help determine the country of origin (is it Switzerland?), and provide some information on whether the threshold of originality in that country is higher than the complexity of this logo? Many thanks in advance. CT Cooper · talk 10:14, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Admin Question, again

I think your last word on the subject was User_talk:Kanonkas/Archive_2#Adminship, where you basically said that you didn't want to make the commitment. Normally I would honor that and go away and shut up -- I try to recruit active Admins, not people who won't help with our growing backlogs.

I think, though, that you are a special case. Today, for the nth time, you said in an Undeletion Request, "I can't see the [image], so can't directly comment -- but...." Your knowledge of the law and ability to put it in simple words is so valuable to Commons that it would be boon to us all if you would become an Admin and be able to see images when commenting in a UnDR. I would be delighted to nominate you on that basis -- that you might use the tool only when you needed to see an image in order to comment fully on it. While you would have to do five Admin actions every six months to keep the tool, that doesn't need to take more than five minutes if you pick off five non-controversial items from any daily log. Please consider it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:46, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

+1 I would like to endorse Jameslwoodward's excellent suggestion. --AFBorchert (talk) 16:01, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I would also like to second Jim. I am sure you would be highly accepted as an admin, even if you would not “actively” use the tools. --Leyo 16:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

My opinion remains the same :) — Kanonkas // talk // e-mail // 20:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Likewise, I steadfastly believe you'd make a good admin. Killiondude (talk) 08:54, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I'd be willing to consider a CLindberg user group, with the relevant viewdelete user rights... ;) Failing that, perhaps we could figure out an RFA predicated on an automatic desysop arrangement which kicks in if you exceed, say, 10 admin actions per quarter... :0 Well, perhaps we shouldn't try to press-gang you into something you don't want. Rd232 (talk) 18:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Czar Admin - Your contributions to our recent very complex discussions are excellent. Are you a copyright attorney? Doug youvan (talk) 00:52, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I'd also encourage you to accept adminship. I was also more dragged into it than not, but I do find that some of the tools are quite useful. - Jmabel ! talk 05:04, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Template:PD-Romania

Thanks for the work on Template:PD-Romania. Maybe you wish to clarify its specific usage at Commons:Copyright tags#Romania. Best regards.--Codrin.B (talk) 20:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

There is a fair amount of overlap between {{PD-Romania}}, {{PD-RO-photo}}, and {{PD-RO-1956}}. Not sure we need all three tags. Anyways, I made a note about using PD-Romania for works where the author died before 1946, as that is the most common situation, and that case is not covered by the latter two. Carl Lindberg (talk) 20:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

That's what I felt too, as it seems a little confusing. Thanks for clarifying. We need some lawyers for this ;-) --Codrin.B (talk) 20:41, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

BTW, not sure if you seen this Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Images from the Romanian Communism Online Photo Collection.--Codrin.B (talk) 21:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Village Pump

Carl,

I just added this: From User_talk:Kraaiennest / Crowsnest: "Dear Doug Youvan, I do not intent to make the code available, since it is (in part) the property of others." Doug youvan (talk) 16:05, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

It does not appear that we are arriving at a consensus. Could you comment on the Pump as to what the quote (given above) implies for our discussion, please? Doug youvan (talk) 18:40, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I think I understood your last comment. Very good. I reduced it to one sentence and asked you a yes / no question. Please help again. Thank you. Doug youvan (talk) 00:47, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Copyright on photograph by an Italian author

Could you take a look at Commons:Valued image candidates/Charles Lucky Luciano.jpg and weigh in or let me know what you think about the copyright issue raised? I know there's been a fair amount of discussion about {{PD-Italy}}, but it all seemed to have to do with works that were first published in Italy, while here an editor is asserting that this law applies to "all works of Italian authors, wherever first published." Thanks, cmadler (talk) 11:32, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!

... for the new insights that you gave me on the reasons some of the copyright laws are formulated one way or another. While I knew the letter of the Romanian laws and I've read some things about the international IP treaties, both at commons and elsewhere, there were some things that seemed quite strange to me. In the discussions we had about RO copyright laws you managed to clarify some of the reasoning behind the laws for me.--Strainu (talk) 11:21, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Template:Walters Art Museum license/en

Carl, Could you have a look at Template:Walters Art Museum license/en? We are preparing upload of 20k+ images and would prefer to make sure all the licenses are proper before the upload. Please reply at Template talk:Walters Art Museum license. --Jarekt (talk) 13:55, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

No panoramafreiheit in France: possible copyvio

I wanted to get your opinion before I go off nominating most of Category:Galeries Lafayette (Paris) for deletion (all except subcats Category:Views from the Galeries Lafayette (Paris) and Category:Spice display - Galeries Lafayette (Paris)). My understanding is that there is no freedom of panorama in France, and buildings are under copyright for 70 years pma (which extends 70 years from the death of the last survivor in the case of multi-author works). From what I can find, this building was designed by Georges Chedanne and Ferdinand Chanut; Chedanne died in 1940, and Chanut in 1961, so the building itself is under copyright until 2032 (70 years pma). For the night images, there's an additional issue of the lighting display; if the creator of the display lived beyond 1942 -- I'm guessing the display wasn't even created until at least the 1960s -- that is also still under copyright. Am I right that these should be deleted from Commons, or is there another consideration I'm missing? Thanks, cmadler (talk) 17:20, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

DR redux

I would be interested in your response at User talk:MBisanz#File:Бой_Максима_Кривоноса_с_Иеремией_Вишневецким.jpg. Thanks. MBisanz ^talk 21:14, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Hello

You made File:US-WhiteHouse-Logo.svg, would you be willing to make this one used by Hawaii? Fry1989 ^eh? 22:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I didn't make it, a government artist did -- I only extracted it from a PDF file, and converted to SVG. File:US-WhiteHouse-Emblem.svg is another version of it. I'm not too good with creating that stuff; the ones I've done myself have taken me quite a while. And, since that one is the work of a state government artist, anything too close would probably be a derivative work (someone could take the White House logo style, look at photos/plans of the Hawaii house, and make their own version -- but if they follow that graphic too closely, it could still be a derivative work). There is actually a similar graphic for the Lieutenant Governor on this page; if you need that to use under fair use. However, I'm not sure how relevant the Governor's version is anymore -- that particular house is no longer used for government purposes, but has been a museum since 2008 I think, as they built a new building to serve the government purpose that year. Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:27, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't know you extracted it. Bugger. Anyhow, thanks anyways :) Fry1989 ^eh? 18:42, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hold Anything.jpg

Could you take a look at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hold Anything.jpg if you have the time? I'm not sure if I've searched everything I need to search for renewal on Bosko, among other things.--Prosfilaes (talk) 09:42, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Raising a totem pole

Could I ask you to look in at Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Totem_pole:_possible_copyright_issue.3F? My question, but so far no one who has weighed in knows any more than I do, and no conclusion at all has really been reached. - Jmabel ! talk 00:38, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:John F Kennedy Official Portrait.jpg

Hi Carl, if you have the time, could you take a look at this DR? The interesting question is whether official portraits of the White House count as works of the Federal Government. Thanks and kind regards, AFBorchert (talk) 08:53, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

File:US-FishAndWildlifeService-Logo.svg

File:US-FishAndWildlifeService-Logo.svg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

71.48.183.124 21:26, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Czech statue in U.S.

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Statue of Lenin (Fremont, Seattle, Washington). I suspect you will have a much better idea of the status of this than either the nominator or myself. - Jmabel ! talk 00:15, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Need advice re: undated train images

There are several I'd like to upload but they have no date. Some are older postcards which have no date and were never mailed. To the best of my knowledge, they are pre-1978, and certainly pre 1983 as they don't have the "+4" ZipCodes on the back. Have been to copyright.gov on searches for both the company who printed them and the respective photographers given credit and no information has been found.

The others involve photos of the defunct Seaboard Air Line railway. Two aren't marked re: date or photographer, but can be dated by the company's 1967 merger. One is marked as being from Culver, who did not mark the photo with copyright information. It can be dated as being before the 1967 merger. The other is not dated or marked but is a photo of a train the railroad premiered in 1938 as a streamlined diesel train. Can any of these be uploaded and if so, what's the best thought re: licensing the postcards that are a bit more difficult to date? Thanks, We hope (talk) 23:47, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Do you have the physical postcards? I'm not sure the lack of "+4" codes is a reason to date it (though inclusion would prove a minimum date). However, if you have the actual postcards, and there is no copyright notice (which was permitted to omit the year actually, but would need the C symbol or the word copyright), and there is good reason to believe they are from before March 1, 1989, and they were from the United States, then they could be uploaded. It would be best to upload a scan of the back first, then a scan of the front, so that the back is also included in the image history (copyright notices could be there so it's nice for that proof to be available). Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:35, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Don't have the cards personally, but have access to both sides of the cards, and there's nothing that would indicate "copyright" in any form on the cards, which were all printed in the US. My general practice with all images is to include a front and back as a "first upload" so there's proof there is no notice on the item and also proof of dating in many cases. Haven't started digging through my own "train stuff" yet. ;-) We hope (talk) 01:58, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

Thanks for your timely feedback! Truthskr (talk) 16:19, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:New_Horizons_Jupiter_flyby.png

I wanted to ask if you have received anything from your emails yet. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 20:22, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:Cygnus_X-1.jpg

Would you take a look at this, please? Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Body Art

I'd like to explore this a little further, if you don't mind, because I'm not certain I understand your reasoning. If we stipulate that body art is creative, then an artist should be able to copyright his work so that others cannot copy it. That is, after all, why copyright in art exists -- to prevent copying a creative work. If that's true, then a photograph of body art is just as much a DW as a photograph of an Andy Warhol.

As for the utilitarian question, we accept that a painting on the side of a truck has a copyright -- it does not matter that the canvas is a utilitarian object if the creative work is separate from the object. The same is true of dinner plates and many other things. Why is it different if the canvas is skin?

I don't, by the way, buy the argument that body art is thin clothing. It is true that really well done body art is hard to tell from clothing in a photograph, but there is no question of that in person. So body art does not conceal and does not protect one from the elements, which are the two utilitarian aspects of clothing.

You mentioned tattoos. Is there some case law on tattoos that I don't know about? I would think that a tattoo, whether henna fake,or real under the skin, would have a copyright on the same reasoning.

Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:04, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

The same thing exists for clothes though. The patterns on clothes can indeed be registered with the copyright office, even if the clothes themselves cannot. The idea is, obviously, to prevent other manufacturers from copying the same patterns. However... a picture of someone wearing clothes with such patterns we generally don't consider a derivative work -- depicting its use in everyday life just doesn't seem like the kind of thing derivative works were meant to control. Body art... a little different, but unless the photo is really focusing in on the art itself to the exclusion of the person, I really don't see it being considered derivative. Body art is not something which copies can really be made; it's not something the artist can commercially exploit other than selling their painting services at the time. In countries with FOP, that is more or less the equivalent of an ice sculpture in terms of its permanence -- the work is destroyed forever once the wearer takes a shower. Deletion of pictures of a street fair which contain people wearing body art -- I really don't see how that would affect the normal exploitation of that particular type of work, and I would be really surprised if a court actually ruled that type of thing derivative. I've never heard of a photo of someone wearing clothes being deemed derivative of the clothing pattern copyright, never heard of a photo of a costume being deemed derivative of a mask or even a copyright character (making the costumes themselves is very different of course), and never heard of a photograph of a street scene like those being deemed derivative of body paint or tattoos or the like. Just like a photo of the bottle is not derivative of the label, even if the label is copyrightable and prominent -- that is not the focus of the photographs, usually. It's a photo of the street scene, or a photo of the entire person. I would rather not delete photographs like that without some sort of court precedent we can point to -- and really, Ets Hokins and the Latimer decisions instead point to that type of photo not being a derivative work. It might be different if the photo was focusing in on the artwork itself to the point of barely showing the body, i.e. the artwork is truly the focus of the photograph, but for one-off, non-permanent works like body paint, I'm not sure there is too much in the way photographs could do to affect their normal exploitation. I mean, has there ever even been a copyright transfer of such a work? At some point the theory of copyright can break down when it comes to certain real-life situations :-) Tattoos are a thorny problem because they become part of the person -- you are kinda saying a person no longer has rights over their own body, and cannot distribute photos of themselves or post them there without permission of every tattoo artist they've ever used. Tattoo templates sold by artists -- sure, that's different. But there are some real-life practical limitations with that kind of thing. (There is only one tattoo case that I'm aware of, involving Rasheed Wallace, which did not go well for the artist, who settled quickly -- but Wallace may have been a co-author in that case, which would destroy most any claim anyways). Carl Lindberg (talk) 12:03, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. I think I agree, mostly because, as you say, it is so transitory. Otherwise, it feels to me like a painting, with skin for the canvas. I suppose one could say that it is like street art -- pastels on the sidewalk -- in that respect. The other issue with the images in the DR that brought this up is the masks, and I think those do have copyrights and therefore images are DWs.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:00, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

If it's a photo focusing on the mask itself, that's possible. If it's a photo focusing on the entire person in public... I think that is kind of doubtful. Basically like the Ets-Hokin decision -- a photo of the entire bottle is not a derivative work of the label. In the Latimer decision, a photo of a motorcycle was not derivative of the copyrighted, painted design on the side of the motorcycle -- the definition of "derivative work" in U.S. law at least was narrower than that. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:15, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I understand your reasoning, but I'm not sure I completely agree. Take File:Pulikali-2011-11.jpg, which was not one of the files in the recent DR. The focus of the image is on the mask and body paint of one man. He probably didn't do his own body paint, and he may or may not have made the mask, so we most likely have two copyrights, not one, but everything there is under copyright, so the image certainly focuses on copyrighted works. If the tiger were drawn on a wall, or a mannequin, it would clearly be an infringement, so I have trouble with the fact that the canvas is skin somehow makes it not.

I also don't agree with your application of Ets-Hokin to this, or indeed anywhere else in DW discussions. Since it is a complex case, I could well be missing something -- if so, please set me straight.

I assume we are talking about 225 F.3d 1068 (9th Cir. 2000) which is, I think, the first appeal. The reason that the image of the bottle was not a DW was that the Circuit Court found that the bottle was not copyrightable. The shape of the bottle was routine (the court did not note that it was made of expensive and unusual blue glass) and the label contained only text -- no graphics -- and therefore was not copyrightable either -- see the fourth and fifth paragraphs at C(2) The Bottle Is Not Copyrightable. The judge then went on to say that the question of whether the label was copyrightable was moot, because the image was of the bottle as a whole and not the label -- this is where you and others hang your hats. I think, though, that it would be a much stronger hat rack if the judge had found that the label was copyrightable, but, notwithstanding that, that an image of the bottle as a whole was not. I might even suggest that if the label had been copyrightable, then the case might have been appealed further.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:42, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Right, the decision says exactly that -- it doesn't matter if the label was copyrightable, because the "underlying work" is the bottle itself, and the derivative works determination does not go further than that. Latimer v Roaring Toyz makes a pretty similar statement, though they found a way to skirt around actually making that ruling. That was a case about photographs of a motorcycle which had clearly copyrightable artwork on the side. The district court decision in that case was a pretty wide-ranging ruling which basically said that photographs in general were not derivative works of 3-D objects; the circuit court toned that way down but basically ended up in the same place as the Ets Hokin decision: Further weakening defendant-appellees argument is the fact that the ZX-14 motorcycles were the subject matter and primary focus of Latimer’s photographs. Latimer’s photographs can best be described as being “based upon” the ZX-14 motorcycles, useful articles not subject to copyright protection. The fact that Hathaway’s artwork appears in the photographs is merely incidental. However, we need not resolve the derivative work question if the photographs were made with Hathaway’s authorization. So there, again, the copyrightable artwork on the motorcycle was incidental to the photograph of the entire bike, and likely would not cause the photo to be deemed derivative, because it's "based on" the entire bike, not the artwork. As alluded to in the last sentence though, the court found a way in all the contracts surrounding the matter to find that the photographer had implied permission to photograph the work anyways, so they avoided actually making the ruling on derivative works, but the hint there is pretty strong. I'm not aware of a counterexample when it comes to situations like this-- there was a case of SHL Imaging a number of years back which went even further with a the photos-are-not-derivative-works-almost-ever route, but several rulings contradict that (including these two, one of which explicitly rejected the SHL Imaging logic as overbroad). They seem to be the best guidance we have, as the more conservative rulings on things like this. As for that photo above, yes, that blurs the lines. When the artwork is the entire covering, it's harder. But is the photo really there to depict the scene at a fair by giving an idea of the people around, or is there something in the actual artistic expression that makes the photo itself much better? The mask is in the dark, so I don't think it adds much, but yeah I could see a court struggling with the rest of it. Even with the above label vs bottle interpretations, there are tough questions -- is a picture of product packaging a photo of a box, or is it really just a copy of the artwork which takes up the entire surface of the box? So yes, it's not always clear-cut. But on the other hand, I'm not aware of a court case anywhere which *has* ruled something like this a derivative work. Photos of statues, yes, we can back that up when people complain about being deletionists. Deleting stuff like the above is harder to defend if we can't point to actual court cases which show a real danger. Photos like this are taken all the time, and if nobody in history has been convicted for it... well... Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:49, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you again for your patient review of these cases. As is often the case with copyright, what seems obvious is not always the case. I don't like depending on these rulings for this issue, but they're all we've got, so we're stuck with them. I wish I could see the Ets-Hokin image and the bottle -- it's still hard for me to grasp that a closeup of a whole wine bottle with an artistic label occupying most of the front of the bottle, is not DW of the art.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:21, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

It may be more of what is the point of the photograph... the small details can make differences in cases like this. If the intent of the photograph was to focus on the label, or they are making some intentional use of the artistic expression in the label, things could go the other way. In both the above cases, the photographer was hired to take photos of the entire product -- whatever label or designs were on the surface were therefore clearly not a concern of the photographer's at all; they just happened to be there while the focus was on the entire product -- that's basically incidental. If someone is taking a picture of Mike Tyson, they are going get a facial tattoo in there whether they want to or not -- I don't think the tattoo artist suddenly gets derivative rights over every picture of Tyson from there on out. I think you're right that painting on skin doesn't automatically preclude copyright, but the nature of all the details of the situation can affect the outcome. I think there was a copyright granted to the facial makeup used in the play Cats -- but of course, those have explicit designs written down so the makeup can be applied the same way repeatedly to different performers and on different days as needed. On the other hand, particularly in the U.S., you have to file a copyright registration to get statutory damages, which is impossible in the case of most body art. If not, any infringement would be limited to actual damages, which I think means the artist would have to show how the photographs prevented him from being able to paint more people (as he presumably already received payment for that one). I know did some searches before; there is a bit at Commons talk:Licensing/Archive 32#FOP and body painting. From there, I did come across this paper where a lawyer looked into some of the theoretical issues. It does note a case where an advertisement photographer intentionally placed a pair of copyrighted glasses on the model (which was mainly to show off the clothes); this was deemed to not be incidental and not fair use. But, a photo of someone on the street who happened to be wearing those same glasses would probably be different, if the point of interest was the person themselves. With tattoos, the option to show them or not show them really isn't there. I recall a publication getting a public backlash over a photograph of Allen Iverson where they airbrushed all of his tattoos away -- that was deemed offensive to Iverson, as it seemed to by trying to alter his image in a way he may not have wanted, as his tattoos are apparently pretty important to him. You also might like s:The Background, written in 1911 ;-)

(smiling) Thank you for the story of M. Deplis. With all the subtleties of the American copyright law, and different subtleties in the laws of other countries, it is a wonder we get anything done here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:53, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For patient explanation.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:55, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	for fixing some errors here. Philippe (WMF) (talk) 17:33, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Bridge names in Brest

I have added another question over bridge names in the village pump. (tread: Dating pictures)Smiley.toerist (talk) 23:17, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Coats of Arms

Commons:Coats of Arms seems to be fairly clear that the definition of a COA is not usually copyrightable, but then goes on to imply (if not actually state) that a COA redrawn as an SVG is fine if it is sufficiently different from any copyrighted representation of that COA (eg picture of it found on the internet) that it doesn't look like a derivative, but can be argued to be a new expression of that COA created from its definition. Which appears to mean: look at someones drawing/painting/photo of a COA, infer the definition of it, and then draw it and you will create a non-derivative, copyrightable, SVG. ("As soon as the change in the drawing is substantial enough, so that the original picture can't be identified, it is a derivative of the ... PD-definition", "Now, if you hurry to make a .svg version inspired of a to-be-deleted CoA, it's OK (check! easily indeed a copyvio): there is no "derivative rights" involved with coats of arms")

• Is that how you read the advice on that page?
• If so, do you agree that it may be practical advice, but not really the sort of thing we can legally suggest as adequate?
• Would it be to pedantic to change the wording to say that an SVG must be created only from a PD or freely copyrighted source, or from the definition?

Thoughts ? :-) --Tony Wills (talk) 11:58, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

It would be best if somebody only drew a version from looking only at PD sources, of course. That's not always realistic :-) A graphical work should never derivative of a written description (that is basically the epitome of "separate expressions of the same idea") so yes, coming up with a heraldic description, then drawing a new version based on that should be fine. Really, you should be able to just look at the image to see if any of its authorship is attributable to the other image, rather than just the general design. It doesn't really matter what the process was; it would be judged based on the similarity of the two versions. [The reason people will sometimes go to lengths to avoid even seeing the copyrighted sources, particularly when writing software, is that infringement is a combination of "substantial similarity" and access to the original -- if you can prove that there was no access, then any similarity is completely coincidental, and not infringement. It has been ruled that two people, each independently coming up with the exact same work, each have their own valid copyright.] For one example, there was an undeletion request over File:Coat of arms of Antigua and Barbuda.svg. I did not think that was derivative of versions seen here or here, however, I think it is derivative of the bitmap here (not exactly the same, but many small details were copied, regardless if it was traced or self-drawn to be similar). The SVG was kept, but only because that particular source bitmap appears to be licensed as {{NGW}}. If that determination ever turns out to be incorrect, then the SVG would have to go as well, I'd think. In general though, I think the advice is fine -- we can simply look at the two versions to see if they are "substantially similar" or not. If there are small details in the SVG which are really only present in a particular source bitmap, that probably means there is an issue. But if the SVG was different enough that no source bitmap can be identified, I'd think it would be its own original work. If there is a freely-licensed bitmap source, then subject to the license of that bitmap. Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:59, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Question

Re: the information you posted here, I think there's a problem with this. The license says it had no notice, but it's certainly visible in the original upload, and in the scan of the photo offered for sale. Thanks for any help you can offer, We hope (talk) 01:06, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Think there's also another one here, as it looks like a c in circle on the original upload. Again, thanks. We hope (talk) 01:10, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

First one is definitely a problem. That's a valid copyright notice. Second one... yikes. Is that an "O" or a copyright notice? The "O" in "CORP" has the top curling down inside a bit as well... that's pretty ambiguous. The compendium (Chapter 4) said that A variant of the symbol © will be acceptable only where it resembles the © closely enough to indicate clearly that the copyright symbol is meant. Not sure that one does. Is that "CR Corp" or "OCR Corp" ? Secondly, that Bergman image would have to have been renewed, so there's another (rather likely) possibility of PD status. I may leave that be, but nominate the first one. Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll nominate the first one for deletion then. I think it's supposed to be c in circle CP-Columbia Pictures.Thanks, again! We hope (talk) 01:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

OK, that's a pretty good possibility. You'd have to find the renewal in 1967 or 1968 for copyright to still exist, though. Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:36, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

When I see something like that, I leave it where I saw it, sometimes with regret, but I leave it. We hope (talk) 01:43, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Help ...

Hello ... Pls Delete all Old & New version of this file

commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Harminder_Singh_official.JPG

• Harminder Singh official.JPG

Thanks  :)

copyright infringement of uncopyrightable derivatives

Hi, could you comment on Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:100_рублей_Путин-лидер_партии_жуликов_и_воров.jpg about my comment, on your comment :-). I am also wondering about extracting an image of a COA (original designed 1865) as it appears on a Google street view image showing a window of a building - If I cut out just the COA (not longer in copyright), I am not infringing Googles copyright? (I don't quite see how a 180 degree view taken by an automated system actually entailed any creative authorship by Google or it's employees but that is a different matter (and given Google's gross afront to peoples copyright by digitizing books without permision I don't think they have many moral legs to stand on, but that is a different, different matter ;-)). Thanks :-) --Tony Wills (talk) 12:30, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

You don't need that much to make something copyrightable :-) There would be little doubt on Google's copyright of their street view photographs. As for the COA... each drawn version can have its own copyright, regardless of when it was designed. Whether it would be considered derivative of the Google photograph, erm, if it was head-on and there is no surrounding context left in the crop, then that should be OK, at least in the U.S. If you can identify the source photograph though, perhaps not in some other countries. If you use the photograph as a reference to make your own drawing of the COA, such that the photo itself is not used at all, then the only issue is if your drawing copies copyrightable aspects of the COA representation seen in the photo. Google Books is pushing the limits of fair use, but it may be within them. Google since its very beginning has been indexing and copying the content of websites the world over without explicit permission; not a whole lot different ;-) Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:52, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I was simply thinking of taking a copy of [13] as evidence of which rendition (in the non CIA sense ;-) of a COA was in use in 2009, but yes even with close cropping there would still be elements of reflection from the glass which are particular to that photo. Ok, I will forget that idea :-) --Tony Wills (talk) 23:58, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

your opinion please?

You seem quite knowledgeable about copyright issues. Do you ever weigh in on copyright issues on the english language wikipediaʔ

I started a copyright related thread at en:Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#When should administrators decline to email the source text to deleted material?

Surprising statements made there triggered me to start two related threads. en:Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Copyright and cite templates, spelling and punctuation corrections en:Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#transmittal by email and the meaning of publishing

If you only have time for one, the last one might be the one you would be most interested in.

I would be interested in your opinion(s). Thanks! Geo Swan (talk) 20:34, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Heads up!

I have replied here: Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:.E0.A4.B2.E0.A4.BE.E0.A4.B2.E0.A4.BE_.E0.A4.B9.E0.A4.B0.E0.A4.A6.E0.A4.AF.E0.A4.BE.E0.A4.B21299.gif --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 19:56, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Another heads up, same page! --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 16:47, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Another reply has been posted which might be interesting! --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 17:35, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Heads up, same page! --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 16:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Section

A new reply, same page! --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 05:01, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Precious

	Image licensing
	Thank you for your superb knowledge of image licensing, specifically jewelry and helping settle an issue at the Yogo sapphire FAC on en wiki! PumpkinSky talk 00:23, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Notice on paintings question?

Carl:
Do I remember correctly that under the old US law, the copyright notice on a painting did not need to include the (c) but could be just the artist's name and the date? Could you please give me a cite either way? Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:14, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

It had to have the (c) (or the word "copyright", the abbreviation "copr.", or something unambiguously similar). It did not have to have the year though, as that was only required on certain classes of works. See {{PD-US-defective notice}}, and s:Copyright_Act_of_1909#sect18. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:53, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

You have mail

Sorry for copying you in on an e-mail exchange without much context, but I thought you'd be a good person to consult. Let me know if you're confused, though. :-) Dominic (talk) 20:42, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Clarification request...

Hi...If a photograph is made of a painting in the public domain, is the photograph automatically in the public domain? My understanding is no, not automatically, but I thought I'd ask You re-characterized my File:K-21225.jpg on the painter. I did it on the photographer. Why are you more right? ☺ JMOprof (talk) 19:45, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

In the U.S., the photograph does not have sufficient creativity to support a copyright. See Commons:When to use the PD-Art tag, and the w:Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. court case. I should have used that tag, though. Or {{Licensed-PD-Art}}, since the photo is free as well. Carl Lindberg (talk) 19:56, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Carl...we look to be double covered now ☺ Thanks.

PD text logo

Thanks for your quick answer above.

We you please take a look at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Minecraftlogo.png? C3F2k is giving me a hard time about it because it is a Swedish logo and the font may have a copyright under Swedish law. It is my understanding that we regularly apply {{PD-textlogo}} to logos, that, like this one, are simply text with nothing else. Is that wrong? Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

We have looked at the laws of other countries -- the "pure letters" thing, regardless of custom fonts or not, is a U.S. thing. The UK seems to see if there are customizations to a font (though logos using a standard font, even if the font itself is copyrighted, seem to be OK). But even for that one in the U.S., I'd say it's not pure letters. There is a texture on the surface of the letters, which has arbitrary lines, which probably push it over the edge, and that is not related to the shape of the letters. I'm also not sure about the 3-D effect... though it's somewhat related to the shape of the letters, the depth and angles etc. may be separate decisions. In all the copyright office appeals decisions where they rejected logos and other graphic works, I don't recall seeing any with substantial 3-D effects yet, so I'm a bit wary on that alone, even though that is relatively simple 3-D effect. However, the license is not PD-textlogo, so I don't know why it was nominated that way -- it was a faulty nomination to begin with. It's listed as PD-author. There was some sort of discussion about the Minecraft licenses, but I can't remember how that turned out. Hmm..... from a search, probably should have been part of Commons:Deletion requests/File:Minecraft 1.1 Title.png. They had been kept numerous times before -- Commons:Village pump/Archive/2011/10#Minecraft images, Commons:Deletion requests/File:Enderman.png, Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2011/12#Minecraft_screenshots, but enough nominations and I guess it will eventually succeed. It is an ambiguous license to be sure, and I'm not sure that PD-author really applies, though arguably it would be pretty hard to rip textures from this particular image (the main condition of the license). Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Based on your cites, including Commons:Deletion requests/File:Minecraft 1.1 Title.png which was just a few days ago, we should probably delete. None of them, though, address the issue of whether there can be a copyright in this is one word made from a special font. It's my experience that we do not delete single word logos that have no other copyrightable features, no matter how complex the font. Do you disagree?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:18, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

That's correct. The word is not copyrightable, and the typeface (outline of the letters anyways) is also not copyrightable in the U.S. The squiggly lines on the top of the letters, on the other hand, most probably are. That is basically separable artwork on top of the utilitarian letters. The 3-D effect may also cause it to cross over the line; those are decisions (how deep, what angles) not truly based on the outline of the letters. That's fuzzier to me -- if it's a simple matter of repeating the same outline at the top and then drawing connecting lines without any perspective maybe that's not enough -- but I haven't seen a solid example of a 3-D effect logo be ruled non-copyrightable yet, so I haven't seen a legal basis on which to think those are uncopyrightable. There are several decisions though on custom fonts not mattering, even fanciful bubble-type fonts, but when it comes to textures on the letters, or other artistic effects which are not letter outlines, it can start to be different -- in that case there are other copyrightable features. In this case, if you remove the letter outlines entirely, and just have those squiggly lines on a gray background -- I think that's copyrightable. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:34, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I see the squiggly lines as simply part of the font, as is the 3-D effect, but I defer to you on such matters. I (and others) will have to rethink our approach to PD-textlogo, as it is not as obvious as I thought. Thanks again.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	For your outstanding support and dedication in getting Yogo sapphire from a new article to DYK to GA to FA and FOUR. The team effort of the uncountable people involved in getting this unique article to FA is a textbook case of teamwork in article improvement, ie, what Wikipedia should be, not what it all too often is. I can never thank everyone enough. PumpkinSky talk 23:32, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Kapara relief Gilgamesh winged sun.jpg

Hi Clindberg, this DR is an interesting case where we are discussing if {{PD-Art}} can be applied to photographs of bas-reliefs and/or if Bridgeman v. Corel applies in this cases according to US law. Your insight would be most welcome. Thanks and kind regards, AFBorchert (talk) 11:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Photos of photos

If a photo was taken in America of a person about 1960 and never published and a wiki user takes a photo of that photo, which is on the wall in a frame, is the photo the wiki person took free?PumpkinSky talk 23:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

No. If the original photo was unpublished through 2003, then its U.S. copyright lasts either for 70 years after the photographer dies (if they are known), or the earlier of 120 years from creation or 95 years from publication, whichever comes first. Carl Lindberg (talk) 23:49, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Question!

I have asked a license related question, can you add your opinion there? I want to become fully sure before uploading (bunch of) images in Commons! Commons:Help_desk#Indian_film_certificates_license.21 --Tito Dutta (Send me a message) 06:22, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Superseded images policy

Got it, I didn't know about that thanks. I don't really understand why this policy is strictly apply on basic stuff like File:Color icon orange.png where .svg is obviously better than .png, it just duplicate files for nothings and bring more mess on this project but anyway I'll apply it. I take care to remove the delete mentions and restore the inernal links but no needs to restore external's ones cause they're already superseded by better files. Thank you again for the intel and regards. V!v£ l@ Rosière ^{/Murmurer…/} 12:54, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Several reasons -- SVG may be better for our purposes, but not necessarily everyone's (they are fundamentally different media types even though the displayed result can look the same); the PNGs probably have been used in articles in the past, and keeping them preserves the article histories better, and often they are required to document the authorship history. They may seem silly to keep around, but they don't hurt much by being here. By all means, bury them in subcategories though :-) Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Chevy Super Sport side2.jpg

Is there another issue here -- and with all images of concept cars? A concept car is typically not drivable (see Concept car) and therefore is not utilitarian. That would make it a copyrighted sculpture, would it not? .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:12, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

If you are talking about a clay model, maybe. Not even positive about that, depending on how it was designed -- may still just be industrial design. That particular one sounds like it has an engine and everything, so that sounds like a car. Carl Lindberg (talk) 01:57, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand "may still just be industrial design". I have seen a lot of concept cars, that, as the WP:EN article says, are not intended to be driven -- usually because the pieces are not really put together that well and they don't have important detail pieces, like brake and fuel lines. Since such a thing is not utilitarian, why doesn't it have a copyright? Or put another way, why isn't it treated like a 1:1 scale model, a toy? (My apologies for being dense, but you're very good at explaining difficult concepts, which, Lord knows, copyright is.) .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:05, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Some advice, please

Have run across quite a few "old newspaper files" photos from a photographer, Lee Pickett. In the 1920s he was the official photographer for the Great Northern Railway (US) and did extensive photos documenting the railroad's construction of the Cascade Tunnel in Washington State. Since he was working for the railroad, they appear to have distributed many of his photos to local papers in Washington State to publicize their project.

Some of the photos are identical to those online at UW (where the issue would be "fair use", the same problem as with the Otto Perry collection at Denver Public Library); UW has shared some of them at Flickr with "no known copyright restrictions" tags. Others I've found don't appear in either place, but can be dated by referencing one of the UW photos. (UW has the front of the train, I have the back of it, etc.)

My thought is that there would be no problem with the copies which are identical to the UW Pickett collection photos because by uploading both sides of the photo, it can be proven that the images weren't taken from the University. This looks to be a good opportunity for us to get some historic photos re: what it was like to be doing this in that era. Thanks, We hope (talk) 02:11, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

J.L. Richards Photo

Carl, thanks for taking the time to review the photo and copyright issues of J.L. Richards. Your comment supports 'Undeletion". I wholeheartedly agree. But it has been a week since the post, and nothing has happened. In addition, this is my first article and I don't know how to proceed. All I want to do is add his photo back to my article. Please help. Thanks. Jtlanghorne (talk) 12:59, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

PHOTO RESTORED TO ARTICLE 8/2/12 - HUGE THANKS!!! Jtlanghorne (talk) 12:28, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Clifford-the-Big-Red-Dog-title-card.jpg

Hi Carl,

Could you give your opinion about the copyright status of this file? Thanks a lot in advance. Yann (talk) 06:42, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Helping with my images

I just wanted to thank you for fighting my corner with regard to the images that I have uploaded onto wikimedia, as I really appreciated it. I was wondering, if you might consider adding the images I have uploaded to their articles on wikipedia by any chance, I completely understand if you wouldn't want to, but I thought that I could add the images to wikimedia and you add them to their articles (Only if the images are licensed under the OGL of course haha), as I would be eternally grateful especially since many of the articles of these politicans currently lack any image at all, so with your help I would be able to rectify this problem. Kind regards Slytherining Around32 (talk) 17:45, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

westward the course of empire

thanks for the aoc image. however, you might want to consider the "for educational, scholarly, or personal (i.e., nonpromotional, nonadvertising) purposes." [14]. perhaps a fair use is warranted on en wikipedia. Slowking4⇔ †@1₭ 15:58, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

No, the image is public domain from a copyright perspective; no fair use is needed. The painting is PD, and the photo does not add any copyrightable expression ({{PD-Art}}). Secondly, the Architect of the Capitol is a federal agency, so the photo would be PD-USGov even if it was copyrightable. The restriction they refer to is more along the lines of trademark and/or personality rights -- you can't make a usage seem as though it has the backing of the U.S. government, or something like that. But any such restriction cannot be based on copyright; it must be based on other rights (if they exist). Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:03, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

i'm with you, it just seems like an NC ND restriction, although that's not what they did at flickr. we've been discussing with Smithsonian about their NC flickr restriction, so i'm overly sensitive. Slowking4⇔ †@1₭ 17:03, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Whatever restrictions there might be, they are Commons:non-copyright restrictions. Whatever rights they claim, they cannot be based on copyright, and our definition of "free" is specifically based on rights enforced by copyright. "Fair use" is only for when works are under copyright and we need to use the copyright fair use provisions; when there is no copyright, that is moot. The Smithsonian is a little different and thornier; while many of their employees are federal, not all of them are, and there is a decent chance that works done by those other employees are not public domain but rather have a valid copyright owned by the Smithsonian (and of course, private copyrights can possibly be transferred to the Smithsonian, which would remain valid). For photos of public domain paintings, we will typically use the template {{PD-Art}}, as our policy is to assume there is no copyright in the photo itself (backed up by court decisions). Whatever CC licenses may be present on Flickr are moot. Of course, if the Smithsonian does not want their photos uploaded regardless, it may be a good idea to respect those wishes anyways. For other types of photographs though, those licenses may be quite relevant. It'd be great to have access to those, but if the copyright legitimately exists, the Smithsonian may prefer to keep control -- that would be up to them. That's why I asked if the photos of the sculptures that we uploaded were done by federal employees -- that made the licensing easy, otherwise we would need a specific release. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:32, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

well, some of these institutions upload their images with a NC ND license (for example here [15]. "You may not use the Content for commercial purposes." [16] they take a pic of a PD work and appear to restrict their photo of it. these are salaried people taking the scans. they are evolving in their upload position. - that verbiage "non-advertising, promotional" is confusing. is it house rules? are you saying that a gov't salaried person cannot restrict their work? do we know it wasn't a contract worker? i guess i'm inclined to defer but it will make an interesting conversation. Slowking4⇔ †@1₭ 00:07, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

If the painting itself is still under copyright (possible with that one), then that may well be an appropriate restriction. If not, then... en:Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.. They can claim the restrictions, as I'm sure they are trying to protect a revenue stream (can't blame them), but it's unlikely there is any bite behind that bark, at least as enforced by copyright. As for government employees, correct, they cannot restrict their work (made as part of their duties anyways -- anything they do on their own time is of course theirs). The government can have other rights like trademark, or some other special laws surrounding particular emblems, so it's possible there is a problem if you use the image in an advertising context, and make it appear as though the Architect of the Capitol or the Congress is promoting a product or something like that, there could be an issue. And course things like classified documents are restricted by other laws. But they absolutely cannot use copyright as enforcement, which is the critical distinction on Commons. Some entities would prefer that no money be made by others based on their work, and while they have no real right to prevent it, they will try to claim all the vague rights they can to discourage such use. Not entirely sure what the AOC's issue is exactly, but they definitely would not want any private concern to make it appear they had some governmental backing. They may also want to protect something like the artist's moral rights (requesting that crops be so labeled); I can't imagine VARA could possibly apply but it is always possible in common law that a judge could feel a particular use was "wrong" and come up with some right (or invent a new one) which could cover a particular use. But there is no way that copyright covers it. Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:27, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

excellent. that 1934 exhibition was about the "Public Works of Art Project," where artists earned a salary from the feds. [17] lots of depression era murals, and art out there like this. confirmed verbally that those scans were by SI salaried people. i think restrictions are by "intellectual property controlling" institutions, hung over from before the cc license era. explaining at commons deletion could be fun; maybe a note at Licensing is in order. Slowking4⇔ †@1₭ 18:41, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Hubblesite

Dear Carl,

thanks for the clarification. Well. I've just typed "hubblesite" in the search field and got 808 hits. I've checked the the first files:

• File:Accretion disk.jpg Illustration Credit: ESA, NASA, and Felix Mirabel (French Atomic Energy Commission and Institute for Astronomy and Space Physics/Conicet of Argentina), 2002
• File:Abell S740.jpg ok
• File:Cone Nebula (NGC 2264) Star-Forming Pillar of Gas and Dust.jpg Credit: NASA, H. Ford (JHU), G. Illingworth (UCSC/LO), M.Clampin (STScI), G. Hartig (STScI), the ACS Science Team, and ESA, 2002
• File:Sagittarius dwarf galaxy hst.jpg ok
• File:NASA's Hubble Shows Milky Way is Destined for Head-on Collision with Andromeda Galaxy.tif there is some discussion, but i think it's ok. 2012
• File:Pistol star and nebula.jpg Credit: Don F. Figer (UCLA) and NASA., 1997
• File:PolarisA.jpg Credit: NASA, ESA, N. Evans (Harvard-Smithsonian CfA), and H. Bond (STScI), 2006
• File:Einstein Rings.jpg Credit: NASA, ESA, and the SLACS Survey team: A. Bolton (Harvard/ Smithsonian), S. Burles (MIT), L. Koopmans (Kapteyn), T. Treu (UCSB), and L. Moustakas (JPL/Caltech), 2005
• File:Reflection nebula IC 349 near Merope.jpg ok
• File:Hudf-illustration.jpg Illustration Credit: NASA, A. Feild and Z. Levay (STScI), 2004
• File:Stephan's Quintet.jpg Credit: NASA and S. Gallagher IPenn State University, 2001
• File:Ngc1999.jpg ok

So we got 5/12. Should we put a copyvio Tag in the rest ?

Best regards, --Fabian RRRR (talk) 22:35, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

The ESA licenses many of their hubble images -- see {{CC-Hubble}} or {{ESA-Hubble}}. They once also placed them in the public domain, but nowadays have a CC license. The hubblesite.org site says the STScl ones are also fine, quite possibly even ones where they have partial credit (apparently the contract which pays for that work mandates public domain status). Most images taken by the Hubble itself are probably OK; the image in question in the undeletion requests involved images taken by observatories on Earth (or at least derivatives of them) so they didn't originate with NASA at all, and are definite copyright issues if not licensed. For the others, we need to figure out if the non-NASA credits have to do with actual authorship, or some non-copyrightable aspect (for example, NASA often credits the institution who built the instrument used to take the photo, even though that does not figure into the copyright, and things like that). Given the description of that other image though, there was definitely an authorship issue, as it used non-NASA photographs. It's possible, even likely, there are other problem images among the hubblesite ones we have uploaded. The note you saw at the bottom of the hubblesite.org copyright page though may well be significant though. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Request for comment

Can I request your opinion on Commons:Deletion requests/File:Dr. C. W. Saleeby, obituary, 1940.png? I'm not sure how EC regulations, UK law and the URAA interact here.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Template:PD-Ottoman Empire

Hi, could you possibly take a look at my major revisions to Template:PD-Ottoman Empire (and put any comments in the COM:VPC thread)? Thanks. Rd232 (talk) 12:00, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

User:MiszaBot/usertalksetup

I notice your quite large talk page has threads dating back to 2006... I commend User:MiszaBot/usertalksetup to you for instant auto-archiving. cheers, Rd232 (talk) 12:03, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

« Wemmick's Castle »

Thanks for the information. You're absolutely right. The best thing is to remove the file from Commons. It's not all that important, since it's not a genuine illustration. Personally, I'm deleting from the article Les Grandes Espérances. Best wishes, Robert Ferrieux

Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Ursa_Minor_Dwarf.jpg

I think you will find this raises an interesting question. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:02, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

User_talk:Jameslwoodward#Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Mali Village Dance.ogv

And another one, please. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:06, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your help with both of these. Your expertise makes me feel good about them, even though you changed my mind in both cases.

This is another case where it would have been helpful if you could see the file -- please let us get you Admin permission -- I think you would be a shoo-in and helpful to all of us. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:05, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Request to Undelete File: 125th_Reg_Color.jpg

Please undelete the file at your earliest convenience. Thank you--Donaldecoho (talk) 21:08, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The file was at File:125th_Reg_Color.jpg and was deleted on September 6 for having no source. Carl Lindberg (talk) 21:36, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I have both obtained permission and stated the source ( http://cpc.state.pa.us ), website of the Capitol Preservation Committee.--Donaldecoho (talk) 21:46, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Freedom of panorama vs. character copyright

Hey Carl, what do you think of this one: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Paris Parade Navidad 2010-09.JPG. Kaldari (talk) 00:43, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Discussion about copyright status of non-artistic photos created in Hungary

Hello, Carl! Please see en:Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files/2012 September 7#File:Pál Teleki 4th World Scout Jamboree Gödöllő.jpg and advise what should be the next step. Thank you, Razvan Socol (talk) 17:46, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

File:Peru - 34770 - President Leguia.tif

File:Peru - 34770 - President Leguia.tif has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

181.64.169.109 22:16, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Flickr-spoogman-cc-by.jpg

I don't understand your comment here. FOP does not trump the Rockstar Games copyright unless the graffiti/mural was authorized by them, does it? Since we have no proof that it was authorized, FOP is irrelevant. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:55, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Correct -- I thought it was clear there that I think it's authorized, as part of an organized advertising campaign. The exact same mural is in multiple locations around the world. I can't believe it's graffiti -- I think it's a mural. To the point it's almost silly to think otherwise. I'm actually less sure the photo was from Germany... Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:35, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry -- I missed that. I get it now -- you are probably right. However, it's still a delete as the Flickr image is ARR. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I believe it was Flickrreviewed, so it was flickr-change-of-license, but not deletable on account of that. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:05, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

It may have been Flickrreviewed while at WP:DE, but, if so, the tag was not copied to Commons and there is no Flickrreview tag on the file now. .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:06, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

OK. Thought I remembered seeing the tag there, but if not, then fair enough (obviously). Carl Lindberg (talk) 12:08, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:SLO-Tišina1.JPG

Hi, as you have participated in Commons:Deletion requests/Images of coats of arms of Slovenian municipalities in an insightful way, I invite you to voice your opinion at Commons:Deletion requests/File:SLO-Tišina1.JPG. Thanks. --Eleassar ^(t/p) 11:08, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Can you please also comment at Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Coats of arms in Istria? These files were taken down from official municipal web pages. Thanks. --Eleassar ^(t/p) 12:54, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:Europe by satellite 2010-07-14 B&W lite.gif

Would you take a look at this? It's a similar question to Ursa Minor Dwarf, on which you helped my thinking. Basically, can a satellite image of earth have a copyright? Thanks, .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Aeou

Several interesting questions here -- most important, does a building that was created in Poland but is now in the Ukraine because of the border change, have Polish or Ukrainian FOP? .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 20:45, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

trailer photos

Hi Carl, in case you have the opportunity (and the nerves), could you eventually take a look at the underlying copyright question in Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Dr. No Bikini and here (same on different boards). Thanks. --Túrelio (talk) 21:07, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Question

I asked a question at Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:Dziwne_.2A_and_related_improper_deletions_by_Krzysiu to make sure I fully understand your point. Could you comment there if I did? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 19:13, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I've summarized our discussion at User:Piotrus/PolishCopyright. Could you clarify (you are welcome to edit that subpage directly) the following: "that is very rare outside of books" (I am not sure what you mean by that?). "Exception: it's possible for works for Polish authors who died before 1942 to still be copyrighted, if the works were published posthumously 1946 or later." (what's the basis for that claim? It shouldn't be EU, so I guess it's something to do with the US copyright?) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 16:26, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Advice, please

Hi Carl, Would like to use this. This is the first photo I've seen from this show of his. Have been through copyright records for 1952, found no record (early TV days), and none for any possible renewal. The photo was taken from a kinescope at Paley Center. My concern is that it's a copy made by the museum. TIA for your thoughts, We hope (talk) 15:51, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Athens Olympic Stadium

Interesting question here. NASA satellite image of modern stadium in Greece. Does US FOP apply? Greek FOP? Neither? .     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:24, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

It was an interesting question, but I missed one important point - the photo is not a NASA image as was claimed. So it's just a straightforward copyvio. --Avenue (talk) 14:52, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Category:Cluj-Napoca_Orthodox_Cathedral

Carl, would you take a look at this? Thanks, .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 14:16, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Seems to be closed now. While I can't see the images, I would never delete an image where a building is just part of a wide panorama (even if it's the only really notable thing in the photo). In that case, the building is not the primary subject of the photo, the entire area is. It should not matter if there is a nondescript city skyline with one building which really stands out -- the subject of the photo is still the skyline. While it may not pass a strict de minimis test, that is not the only reason why something would not infringe. The French courts applied a "theory of the accessory" to photos where the building was prominent but only part of the larger focus, and U.S. courts have also said that something which is incidental to the main subject should not cause the photo to be deemed derivative. If it's a photo of the entire area where the building is, then the area is the subject, not the building. Of course I'm sure there are lots of gray areas with something like that, particularly when the building is centered, but... Carl Lindberg (talk) 21:08, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to see them. In the most egregious of them the cathedral was in the center of the image, and occupied at least a third of the image horizontally and half of it vertically. The rest of the buildings were just red tile roofs and white stucco. My test is "would this image be in scope if we replaced the problematic object (building, sculpture, etc.) with clones of the rest of the image area?" In this case, I don't think so.

I think it's about time for my periodic reminder that you could see images like this if only you would let us get you Admin status. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 12:38, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Picture of the Year voting round 1 open

Dear Wikimedians,

Wikimedia Commons is happy to announce that the 2012 Picture of the Year competition is now open. We're interested in your opinion as to which images qualify to be the Picture of the Year for 2012. Voting is open to established Wikimedia users who meet the following criteria:

1. Users must have an account, at any Wikimedia project, which was registered before Tue, 01 Jan 2013 00:00:00 +0000 [UTC].
2. This user account must have more than 75 edits on any single Wikimedia project before Tue, 01 Jan 2013 00:00:00 +0000 [UTC]. Please check your account eligibility at the POTY 2012 Contest Eligibility tool.
3. Users must vote with an account meeting the above requirements either on Commons or another SUL-related Wikimedia project (for other Wikimedia projects, the account must be attached to the user's Commons account through SUL).

Hundreds of images that have been rated Featured Pictures by the international Wikimedia Commons community in the past year are all entered in this competition. From professional animal and plant shots to breathtaking panoramas and skylines, restorations of historically relevant images, images portraying the world's best architecture, maps, emblems, diagrams created with the most modern technology, and impressive human portraits, Commons features pictures of all flavors.

For your convenience, we have sorted the images into topic categories. Two rounds of voting will be held: In the first round, you can vote for as many images as you like. The first round category winners and the top ten overall will then make it to the final. In the final round, when a limited number of images are left, you must decide on the one image that you want to become the Picture of the Year.

To see the candidate images just go to the POTY 2012 page on Wikimedia Commons

Wikimedia Commons celebrates our featured images of 2012 with this contest. Your votes decide the Picture of the Year, so remember to vote in the first round by January 30, 2013.

Thanks,
the Wikimedia Commons Picture of the Year committee

---

Delivered by Orbot1 (talk) at 09:01, 19 January 2013 (UTC) - you are receiving this message because you voted last year

violating derivative or not?

Hi Clindberg, in case you also have some expertise about when a derivative may violate the original's copyright, would you mind to have a look at Commons:Deletion requests/File:GADDUM.png? Thanks. --Túrelio (talk) 17:39, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. --Túrelio (talk) 20:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Public Record vs. Public Domain? Deletion discussion for Template:PD-WAState

Hey, thanks for your comments on the deletion discussion for Template:PD-WAState. I've briefly replied to your comments there, and would appreciate your feedback. Peace, --Wikibojopayne (talk) 03:53, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Undel req question

Hi Carl. Can you take another look at Commons:Undeletion requests/Current requests#Files deleted by Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Gobierno de España? This discussion has gotten a bit stale, and I'm trying to get these older undel reqs taken care of. Do you think these should be restored? Thanks for your time. INeverCry 21:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Help

Hi, do you remeber this message? this cancellation procedure is about the same issue, another piece of Industrial design nominated for deletion due to the strichtest reading of law (?). They are already discussing about cancelling pictures of Italian cars... Can you please support your opinion again? Thank you! --Sailko (talk) 09:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Question about PD-Romania

Last year, you added this, saying that a work may be in the public domain in Romania if the following is true:

• The copyright is owned by someone older than 25 other than immediate family or descendants, and the author died before 1981 (15 pma)

Would you be able to confirm this? I suspect that this only applies if the work entered the public domain before 1996 (i.e. if the person was older than 25 years before 1996) if it ever applies at all. --Stefan4 (talk) 19:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that was likely older than 25 as of 1996. You can see the notes at en:Wikipedia:Non-U.S._copyrights#endnote_tab_romania, and the links from there. It appears that the 1996 law was deemed non-retroactive, so it had to be PD by those terms on Jan 1, 1996. There were also discussions here on the Romanian copyright, where the confusion in the text of the law was brought to attention here. Carl Lindberg (talk) 21:07, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Heidi Brühl (1942-1991).jpg

Hi Carl,

Could you please give your opinion about this? Thanks, Yann (talk) 12:59, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Victory at Sea

Another potentially interesting copyright question if you're interested in having a look. – JBarta (talk) 14:25, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Interesting question

I think you will find Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:Pablo_Picasso_The_blind_man.27s_meal_1903.JPG interesting. I think your clarity on complex issues would be helpful. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 12:26, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Notification about possible deletion

Some contents have been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether they should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at their entry. If you created these pages, please note that the fact that they have been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with them, such as a copyright issue. Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

Affected:

• File:Thomas Hart Benton - Achelous and Hercules - Smithsonian.jpg

Thanks, moogsi (blah) 06:44, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Free photographs of copyrighted architecture

Hi, Carl. Could you as an experienced user please comment at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Postcard of Ljubljana, Bank of Slovenia.jpg. The nominated photos depict architecture, which is still copyrighted, but the photos themselves were published before 1970 and are in the public domain in the source country. Does this make them free for any usage? Perhaps it's best if you reply at Commons talk:Freedom of panorama#challenge the Slovenian interpretation, where this question has also been asked by another user. Thanks a lot. --Eleassar ^(t/p) 09:36, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the opinion. --Eleassar ^(t/p) 15:54, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Banners

Hi, I have another question for which I would value your opinion. I've tagged an image of a banner as 'derived -no source';[18] however, if banners qualify as works of applied art it would be in the public domain (the photo was created before 1970 so it is free too). What do you think? --Eleassar ^(t/p) 09:12, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Not sure it would be applied art. Also not completely sure that would be derivative of individual design bits itself, as it is focusing on the entire banner, but that is debatable. The photo was lifted from http://www.ercigoj.com/en/tradition/ though. Carl Lindberg (talk) 06:56, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. The owner of the web page has been confirmed through the OTRS to be the same as the uploader of the image, and the photo was created before 1970 (in Yugoslavia, they were protected for 25 years; in Slovenia this was extended to 70 years in 1995). I'll leave the tag. --Eleassar ^(t/p) 07:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

To not delete unnecessarily, I've replaced the 'ns -derived' tag with a request for deletion. --Eleassar ^(t/p) 15:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Limited licence

Hi, the rights holders of File:Ladies Of Oz Jim Creighton.jpg are wondering if they can limit the resolution they are licensing even though larger sizes may be found on the net. If so did I annotate it correctly?--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:11, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes they can, and it looks fine. It's best to send (or have the copyright owners send) that email to OTRS as well, so the permission is documented. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:10, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I have a few more she emailed me as well. She is the rights holder as producer on most of them. She has contacted the photographers on the few that she doesn't have rights to and sent them a copy of the permission form. I am trying to get her draft article ready to go live this weekend so I will be uploading a few more for the layout. The OTRS forms should be in by Monday/Tuesday. I assume she can use the same ticket number for the ones that she produced but I will let her sort that with her OTRS volunteer. Do you know if WMF bikinis have ever been proposed for the shop or would that be politically incorrect?--Canoe1967 (talk) 11:34, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

One OTRS email can apply to multiple photos, yes. Just use the same number on all the photo pages. They can even give advance permission for future photos, I'm pretty sure -- just be as specific as possible about how those photos are identified. As for the shop, no clue whatsoever. I'd have my doubts they would want to do something like that but I don't know them and can't really speak for them at all. Not sure if they collaborate with other organizations with that stuff or not either. Carl Lindberg (talk) 23:13, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

FOP Australia

It seems we need to delete all our Batmobile images because of a recent court case. File:BatmobileBegins.jpg was taken in Australia with FOP. Can you translate the copyright law to English from Australian? Does "situated, otherwise than temporarily, in a public place", mean permanent display and how long is permanent? We are discussing at pump/copyright and the DR page. Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Batmobile (1966)--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:37, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Permanent is more based on intent -- is it scheduled to be removed from display? Not sure I'd call that permanent in any way. On the other hand... a photo of a (legal) car is very different than making an actual replica. Just as there have been several cases where costume makers were convicted of creating unauthorized character costume replicas, but I've not ever heard of a photograph of a (legal) costume being ruled a problem. Those would be completely different situations in a court case. Carl Lindberg (talk) 23:07, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

You may wish to pop over to that DR then. I think they are doomed to deletion even though that ruling doesn't cover images of the cars. I assumed they had declared it a 3D work of art so even images of copyvio cars cannot be hosted here? Same as my painting by Ed Miracle was deleted. I still haven't recieved word back on authentication. If Chanel likes her article she may buy a t-shirt and pose in that for us. I still think a bikini would be better..--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Thougths?

The batmobile may be a vehicle but so is the Millenium Falcon. The Falcon is fictional and so is most of the batmobile. The car is just a model of that fictional vehicle made from a one off prototype of which many aren't operable like the Falcon. It just happens this one was operable. Thoughts? I copy/pasted this from the pump/copyright thread. Delete here if you wish.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:33, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

can a "for wikipedia" statement invalidate a simultaneous CC/GFDL licensing?

Hi Clindberg, a user in good standing (not an undercover agent of DCRI) found that the currently very hot image File:Base militaire de Pierre-sur-Haute.jpg was released (likely by its creator) under a CC+GFDL license, but at the same time with the statement "Utilisation Libre sur Wikipedia et pour tous les contenus dépendant de la Wikimedia Foundation."[19]. Does this — from Commons' perspective restrictive — statement invalidate or legally impair the free licenses for this image? The related DR is Commons:Deletion requests/File:Base militaire de Pierre-sur-Haute.jpg. --Túrelio (talk) 19:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Corporate ownership and Canadian copyright term

In a discussion at VPC, it arises that File:Canadian Public Domain.svg says corporate ownership leads to PD at 50 years post publication, a point not addressed by Commons:Copyright rules by territory#Canada which says 50 pma except for anonymous works that remain anonymous 50 years post publication. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks, Dankarl (talk) 03:10, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Oscar may be PD

See: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Academy Award Winners 1972.jpg. If the Academy sent the photo to the Baltimore Sun in 1972 then is that image of the statues in public domain? I also remember that proper notice is copyright mark, name, and year. A 1960 image and many others I found on Ebay jusy have " © A.M.P.A.S. " on the staues. No year and just the initials.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

CMG vs Milton Greene and Tom Kelley, 4 years, last appeal decided in late 2012.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:04, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

w:Margaret M. Morrow was the judge in one. It is listed last in her significant decisions section but the link is broken. Do you mind if I put a 'skip to bottom' template at the top of this page?--Canoe1967 (talk) 20:23, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

That case was primarily about publicity rights, not copyright. The most recent appeal was the one I linked on the Monroe deletion request; the Ninth Circuit reaffirmed the decision after California changed its law to retroactively create posthumous publicity rights, but New York's law was the one which still applied to Monroe. It's possible early rounds of that court case affirmed Kelley's copyright but the plaintiffs could never have had any copyright interest in the first place so I'm not sure there ever would have been a ruling on that with Monroe LLC as plaintiffs -- their only claim would have been to Monroe's likeness, which (if valid) could have restricted some of the potential uses of the photos. The archived link is here but there were later appeals. I see reference to another case here but it would appear by that listing that the suit was dismissed. Many of the copyright.gov registrations are for derivative works (computer enhancements etc.) but the original renewals probably were filed before the copyright.gov records start. It would not surprise me though if the copyright question had come up in other cases -- I see reference to some cases here as well where copyright ownership was at least assumed. Carl Lindberg (talk) 21:45, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

The few cases, including the analysis you listed above, that I have looked at state that TKS (Tom Kelley Studios) is the copyright holder of the original 10 images. If the public domain for no notice had ever arisen then I assume that would change things and be mentioned. Having so many pirate/bootleg versions out makes it murky but very hard to prove no notice on the official ones including calendars by Western Lithograph. One can assume that if they produce one official version that shows notice then they should all have notice as they would probably use the same printing plate as a basis for all official calendars. What year was the pre-1977 no-notice creates public domain decided on? Was it always the case from 1923, 1909, or earlier, or a recent decision? This is similar to why the rights holders of my no-notice I Told You So painting by w:Ed Miracle emailed WMF to have it deleted here. I still beleive that he officially had ones produced, (mine which seems too high a quality to be a pirate), that had no notice. With so many pirates out then he only has to produce one with notice. I have tried to get his people to authenticate it but if they do as being pre-1977 then that would release them all to public domain.--Canoe1967 (talk) 01:18, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

The copyright notice form was part of the 1909 Copyright Act, though I think different forms of notices were required before that (probably not as regimented). It was made less stringent by the 1976 act, then done away with on March 1, 1989 when the U.S. joined the Berne Convention. But yes, if there were lots of bootleg copies out there actually proving distribution without notice becomes very difficult. And technically, the copyright owners do not have to prove anything in regards to notice -- it's up to the defendants to prove PD status by showing distribution without notice. The plaintiffs would have to show valid copyright registration, and (if old enough) renewal, but that's about it. Carl Lindberg (talk) 04:04, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Thanks again. I just noticed that Category:Academy Awards probably has a few thousand that aren't De min. I mentioned it at ANI and they will probably clean it up soon. WMF legal has my query on the top of their list for the week of May 6. Can we host images of Oscar from the four FOP countries that he is on perm display in? I don't know why our De min, FOP pages, etc, don't specify yea/nay already.--Canoe1967 (talk) 02:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Well it's legal to host them -- they would be fair use in most non-commercial contexts. It's just a question if they are "free" and that can be kind of subjective, particularly when they are free in some places but not others, and it's sometimes a matter of degree. Per previous policy we would host them (and there was no real decision to change policy). If they are truly derivative works, it's kind of murky. The U.S. might use foreign FoP law, at least to a point, or they may use U.S. law alone to determine the scope of the sculpture's copyright. It may even be a mixed bag -- something like the Oscar statuette which was taken and displayed abroad without any control by the copyright owner may be less likely to be OK then a sculpture knowingly placed in a FoP country by the sculptor, who was or should have been aware of the FoP situation where he was placing it. But it's also likely that a photo would have to be focusing on the statue itself in order to be derivative -- a photo of the entire ceremony may not be even though they aren't truly de minimis. I don't think the Academy gets derivative rights over every photo where the statuette happens to appear (although, cropping to just the statuette would be a problem). Carl Lindberg (talk) 03:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

That is why WMF may wish to look into it. I brought it up with User:Mdennis (WMF) on her en:wp talk page if you would like to pop over there and offer any info that may help them sort it out. The 'Clarify FOP' section of her talk page. Can we crop an FOP image down to just the statue and use it in the infobox of the award article? Can we also use a cropped version to replace the copyvio statue in all of those no-notice images of winners holding it on eBay? The soup gets thicker.--Canoe1967 (talk) 15:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Wisdom

Hi, does File:Branson Belle stage curtain 2005.jpg look below threshold for the USA? I asked at pump/copyright and no response yet. I don't want to bother the DR backlog with it. I will just tag it speedy delete, uploader request it you feel it is copyvio. I uploaded it with some other images of the same ship and it isn't used in any articles yet.--Canoe1967 (talk) 13:42, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Peruvian copyright, 1976 image

Dear Clindberg,
I am sure that the image (see [20]) is of free license in the United States since it was published in Peru (1976) in the local sports magazine Ovacion. Peruvian copyright laws did not become standard with worldwide copyright laws until 1996, and the ambiguity of the copyright status was (and still remains) a huge problem in Peru.
However, I am not sure that the image has a worldwide free license (maybe Ovacion in Peru still has some sort of copyright claim over it). The image itself is quite unique since most Teofilo Cubillas images found online are from FIFA or with a clear copyright status. What do you think?--MarshalN20 (talk) 14:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Here is the Ovacion sports magazine with the image (see [21]). No credit is given to the person who took the photo. The whole magazine is filled with these kind of pictures.--MarshalN20 (talk) 14:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I can't see how it would be public domain, although I'm unsure of exactly what the terms of Peru's pre-1996 law was (which did appear to conform to the Berne Convention just fine). The U.S. URAA restorations would apply to anything still protected under the terms of their previous law on January 1, 1996 -- from what I can find, it was Law 13714 of September 1, 1961 amended (at least) by Law 24518 of 5 June 1986. Can't find the text anywhere. The current law protects even simple photographs for 70 years from creation. It's not clear if the 1996 law retroactively restored such works or not... the transitional section at the very end just says works "protected by the previous legislation" got the new terms. I don't see any regime to deal with people using PD works which were brought back into copyright, which suggests that the 1996 law was *not* retroactive. I'd have to guess the previous law was at least 50pma (since they were Berne convention members), but no idea about photographs. But even if the photograph had a term of 20 years, a 1976 photo would have only expired at the end of 1996, which means that (a) it would have been extended by the new law so it would still be protected in Peru, and (b) would have been restored by the URAA so its U.S. copyright would last until 2072. If the work was not protected at all in Peru, then it probably was restored by the URAA anyways -- it was only works where the term of protection had expired which got excluded. I would be very surprised if the previous law had a term of protection less than 20 years (though it's very slightly possible). So... I'm pretty seriously doubtful that it is PD in the United States, or even in Peru. We would have to show that it was PD in Peru on January 1, 1996 by the terms of the previous law. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Clindberg, thank you for the information.

Regarding the Berne Convention, Peru did not accede to it until 1988 (according to WIPO: [22]). Peru had two previous copyright laws, the first in 1849 (under the Castilla administration) and the second in 1961 (under the Prado administration).

According to the Pontifical Catholic University of Peru's blog (see [23]), the 1961 law was modified twice (but these modifications do not concern copyright terms).

I found the text of the law (in Spanish, from Peru's government website here: [Blocked by Spam protection filter]). Several important points, but a few are relevant to this case (of photographs):

• All photographs are subject to copyright protection for 20 years starting for those who were published on or after January 1, 1962 (Page 6, article 27).
• This seems to indicate that all photographs prior to 1962 are PD (assuming the 1849 law's protection for them, if it ever existed, ended).
• Only photographs part of "literary or scientific works" (and whose authorship is clearly defined) can be protected for a longer period (which the law defines as "all the time that the work enjoys legal safety", which is ambiguous).

This raises the question: Is Ovacion, sports magazine, a literary or scientific work? (I know it sounds like a silly question, but sports can be considered a science, and Ovacion does have a literary context to it; I am really not sure).

In any case, the photo was not PD by January 1, 1996 (since it published in 1976). Under the 1961 law, its protection would have ended in 1997.

I'm going to conclude that this means the photo in question is not PD. If this is the case, could you please list it for deletion (I am not sure how to do that here in Commons)?

Thank you again for the help. You are awesome!

All the best.--MarshalN20 (talk)

Here is the link to the 1961 law in Spanish (You have to connect the "google" link, I added a space between the two "o" in order for it to pass the spam protection filter): http://www.go ogle.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fspij.minjus.gob.pe%2FTextos-PDF%2FLeyes%2F1961%2FOctubre%2F13714.pdf&ei=24qbUfDbKtTOqQHDiIH4Dw&usg=AFQjCNH6WNLQM81ESRqiXD6Z_74-90uYGg

Regards.--MarshalN20 (talk) 15:46, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Peru was a member of the Universal Copyright Convention from the 1950s; that was the United States' primary international convention until they themselves joined the Berne Convention in 1989. They also joined the Andean Community of Nations; I believe there was a common agreement in 1993 or so for a general term of 50pma, although certain types of works could be shorter. The text of the 1961 law you posted is here; you just have to remove the Google search wrapper to avoid the spam filter. However there is no text layer, so it's not easy for me to paste that into Google Translate :-) The 1986 modification is here; that seems to have something to do with terms but I'm not sure it's too significant. Typically, magazines would be literary works, but I've not heard the distinction of "scientific work" very often so maybe we'd need to look into the definitions in that 1961 law. It's possible that the 1961 law granted protection to existing photographs -- if there is any specific information like that, it would usually be at the end in "transitional provisions" or something like that. I'm sure the 1849 law did not protect photographs explicitly but they had been protected by general international practice before 1961 (and probably the UCC), so there may have been an amendment at some point. This would all be good information to have, particularly if the 1996 law is non-retroactive (which it looks like to me, but not positive). But yes, if the previous protection was 20 years, it would seem this photo is definitely still copyrighted. You can use the "Nomination for deletion" link on any image page, which I'll do for this one. Carl Lindberg (talk) 19:46, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
I am going to research more about this and see what more can be found. The good thing is that we now know for sure that most photos published from 1976 until later (in Peru) are not in the public domain (at least until 2046). The 1996 law seems retroactive to images still protected by the "prior law" (that being the 1961 law, with the 20 year protection). If the law was retroactive to even prior years, would this not only affect those images published until 1943 (with the 70 year protection)? I'll update you on my findings as soon as I get them. Regards.--MarshalN20 (talk) 00:24, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Moor

I'm a bit surprised you brought up simultaneous publication. For URAA purposes, 17 USC 104A(h)(8) seems to select in such cases "the eligible country which has the most significant contacts with the work.", not the one with the shortest duration, like the Berne Convention. So for works published 1923 or later of Russian authors who died or were rehabilitated 1943 or later (or died 1939 or later, if active during the Great Patriotic War), it doesn't look as if simultaneous publication would help. I hope nobody takes it up; it might lead to only even more "forum shopping" and arbitrarily claiming PD-Ukraine or PD-Kazakhstan or whatever just to bypass the annoying re-copyrighting in the Russian copyright law. If the author was born and worked in e.g. Kiev, Ukrainian law would be a reasonable choice. Moor, however, was born, lived, worked, and died in the RSFSR, so for him and his 1917-1922 works, "simultaneous publication" will only muddy the waters. (As an aside, Moor was active during WWII, so for him the copyright term in Russia is actually 74 (formerly 54) years.) Lupo 19:16, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, simultaneous publication would work differently for the U.S. when determining the "source country" for the URAA. However, for a 1920 work like the one under discussion, that really wouldn't enter into it. Also remember that in 1996, the Russian terms were 50pma, so if works were PD at the time, they were also not restored by the URAA, regardless of what the 2008 law did. So it would be authors who died 1946 or later, technically. The Berne Convention definition is a little bit odd from some perspectives, but really, the works *were* published in say Azerbaijan at the same time, technically. They were all part of the Soviet Union and it seems pretty odd to claim that say Soviet government works were *not* published in those territories at the time, since the works were just as much for them as the RSFSR. The U.S. definition is more common-sense, and definitely comes into play for the URAA, but when it comes to other countries which use the rule of the shorter term, the "country with the shortest term" *would* seem to be the way to do it. It's right there in the Berne Convention, so I don't know why we wouldn't use it for determining the "country of origin", since being PD in the shorter-term countries is one of the reasons why Commons has that rule. Granted the borders were in pretty extreme flux at that time of Soviet history so it does get murky as to what territory it was really published in. I'm sure the Berne Convention definition was really more for situations where the authors chose to publish in more than one country, but it would also seem to be the a somewhat sensible solution to determining the "country of origin" for works from countries which later split up, and there needs to be some solution there -- not sure why we would make a different one up when the treaty itself gives a definition. We don't have many (any?) guidelines on that sort of thing in terms of court rulings, unfortunately. Authors are allowed to publish in countries other than where they live, in which case the country of origin has nothing to do with their home country. For a Berne country which has the rule of the shorter term, which do you think would end up being the country of origin? Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Of course the URAA doesn't enter the picture for pre-1923 works. I thought I had carefully phrased my statement above to that effect. U.S. courts also use, quite outside of URAA issues, the laws of the country with the "most significant relationship" with the work to determine copyright ownership (Itar-Tass Russian News Agency v. Russian Kurier). As to your closing question: I don't know. That would depend what that country's laws or case law said. Possibly other countries have similar rules about which country to choose in cases of simultaneous publication, or maybe they just do follow the Berne Convention and take the one with shortest copyright term. Depends on the country. Lupo 05:23, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Help please, I am clueless and you are smart

Please advise on this image: [24]

TCO (talk) 19:10, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Libyan copyright law

Would you be able to help with Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Wiki erudito? The problem is that COM:CRT#Libya is based on the wrong law and that no one is able to find out what the correct law, let alone find a copy of the law. --Stefan4 (talk) 15:29, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

PD-MAGov

Can I get a second opinion on this? (I.e from someone other than myself on the situation now in Mass. ) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Elvey/Template:PD-MAGov --Elvey (talk) 07:21, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Deletion request for files in Category:Logos of Eurovision that uses the Eurovision heart

Hello Clindberg, As you have previously participated in a discussion regarding deletion Eurovision Song Contest logos, I would like to direct your attention to Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Logos of Eurovision, where a discussion regarding deletion of 79 logo files are taking place and I would also like to encourage you to participate in said discussion, so we may all benefit from what-ever knowledge and experience, you may have gained during the last discussion. In kind regards, --heb [T C E] 13:33, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Adminship

Hey mate, just thought I would pop by and ask if you would consider an RfA here on Commons. You are active, always ready to help editors, and have a sound knowledge of copyright issues, etc, and I think the community would benefit from you holding the admin tools. Is this something you would be willing to consider? russavia (talk) 04:19, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I really respect your knowledge as well as your kindness and calmness (deletions debates amp most people, including me, up). Even if you were just kind of a nominal admin (not a lot of banhammering), you probably elevate the whole office.71.127.137.171 19:29, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Calling in the best

Please help out at the deletion discussion for the Happy Pan image (just want it resolved so I can use the thing.) [25]

71.127.137.171 19:29, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Chandra and Hubble images

Help! Category talk:Chandra images. I think I'm on excellent ground here, but would much like to have your input. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 14:09, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Works of art by William H. Johnson and Gene Davis

Hi Carl,

Could you please add your opinion there: Commons:Village pump/Copyright#Works of art by William H. Johnson and Gene Davis. I think there is some significant doubt about the copyright status of these works. Thanks, Yann (talk) 14:30, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Merry Christmas! And thank you for your work here.

Yann (talk) 15:33, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Pennsylvania state historical markers

I'd appreciate it if you would comment on the "unpublished" argument here. Thanks, .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 17:48, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Commons:Administrators'_noticeboard#File:Trabalhos.jpg

Appreciating your opinion here. Jee 03:29, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your opinion. Jee 07:33, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

A very big thank you!

I just wanted to send you my sincerest thank you for your comments regarding the URAA on Canadian Crown Copyright. Your comments alone have switched the tide at a time when I was days away from hanging up my hat as an editor. So, for renewing my faith and saving years of work from being a waste, I thank you once again! Cheers, Floydian (talk) 04:54, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Template:PD-US-record

Template:PD-US-record has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this template, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

-- Green Cardamom (talk) 19:17, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Picture of the Year 2013 R1 Announcement

Round 1 of Picture of the Year 2013 is open!

• In other languages: العربية, български, Deutsch, English, ‎français, ‎italiano, македонски, ‎‎മലയാളം, ‎‎日本語, ‎‎‎русский, ‎‎‎svenska, اردو, 中文

2012 Picture of the Year: A pair of European Bee-eaters in Ariège, France.

Dear Wikimedians,

Wikimedia Commons is happy to announce that the 2013 Picture of the Year competition is now open. This year will be the eighth edition of the annual Wikimedia Commons photo competition, which recognizes exceptional contributions by users on Wikimedia Commons. Wikimedia users are invited to vote for their favorite images featured on Commons during the last year (2013) to produce a single Picture of the Year.

Hundreds of images that have been rated Featured Pictures by the international Wikimedia Commons community in the past year are all entered in this competition. These images include professional animal and plant shots, breathtaking panoramas and skylines, restorations of historical images, photographs portraying the world's best architecture, impressive human portraits, and so much more.

For your convenience, we have sorted the images into topical categories. Two rounds of voting will be held: In the first round, you may vote for as many images as you like. The top 30 overall and the most popular image in each category will continue to the final. In the final round, you may vote for just one image to become the Picture of the Year.

Round 1 will end on 7 February 2014. Click here to learn more and vote »

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You are receiving this message because you voted in the 2012 Picture of the Year contest.

Picture of the Year 2013 R2 Announcement

Round 2 of Picture of the Year 2013 is open!

• In other languages: Deutsch, Ελληνικά, English, ‎français, magyar, ‎italiano, македонски, ‎‎日本語, ‎‎‎русский, ‎‎‎svenska

2012 Picture of the Year: A pair of European Bee-eaters in Ariège, France.

Dear Wikimedians,

Wikimedia Commons is happy to announce that the second round of the 2013 Picture of the Year competition is now open. This year will be the eighth edition of the annual Wikimedia Commons photo competition, which recognizes exceptional contributions by users on Wikimedia Commons. Wikimedia users are invited to vote for their favorite images featured on Commons during the last year (2013) to produce a single Picture of the Year.

Hundreds of images that have been rated Featured Pictures by the international Wikimedia Commons community in the past year were entered in this competition. These images include professional animal and plant shots, breathtaking panoramas and skylines, restorations of historical images, photographs portraying the world's best architecture, impressive human portraits, and so much more.

There are two total rounds of voting. In the first round, you voted for as many images as you liked. The top 30 overall and the most popular image in each category have continued to the final. In the final round, you may vote for just one image to become the Picture of the Year.

Round 2 will end on 7 March 2014. Click here to learn more and vote »

Thanks,
the Wikimedia Commons Picture of the Year committee

You are receiving this message because you voted in the 2013 Picture of the Year contest.

This Picture of the Year vote notification was delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

File:The Merchant Illusteration.jpg

Hi Carl,

Would you please add your comment on this issue: Commons:Undeletion requests/Current requests#File:The Merchant Illusteration.jpg. I undertand that a work and a reproduction have a different copyright, but maybe I have it wrong. Thanks in advance, Yann (talk) 09:32, 25 February 2014 (UTC)