User talk:Eddaido

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Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Eddaido!
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Tip: Categorizing images[edit]

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Hello, Eddaido!

Tip: Add categories to your images

Thanks a lot for contributing to the Wikimedia Commons! Here's a tip to make your uploads more useful: Why not add some categories to describe them? This will help more people to find and use them.

Here's how:

1) If you're using the UploadWizard, you can add categories to each file when you describe it. Just click "more options" for the file and add the categories which make sense:


2) You can also pick the file from your list of uploads, edit the file description page, and manually add the category code at the end of the page.

[[Category:Category name]]

For example, if you are uploading a diagram showing the orbits of comets, you add the following code:

[[Category:Astronomical diagrams]]

This will make the diagram show up in the categories "Astronomical diagrams" and "Comets".

When picking categories, try to choose a specific category ("Astronomical diagrams") over a generic one ("Illustrations"). Pro-tip: The CommonSense tool can help you find the best category for your image.

Thanks again for your uploads! More information about categorization can be found in Commons:Categories, and don't hesitate to leave a note on the help desk.

CategorizationBot (talk) 10:40, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Copyright violation[edit]

I have just noticed you have made a croped version of my image File:1903-Daimler-AA11-1198 crop.jpg which is a copyright violation as you should attribute the original uploader image File:1903-Daimler-AA11-1198.jpg as per the licence. I still hold the copyright of the derived imaged and should be credited, please take car in future, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Request for help (identification)[edit]

Daimler mfd 1937 first registered UK Jan 1999 New 15 four-light sports saloon.jpg
Daimler mfd 1937 first registered UK Jan 1999 New 15 four-light sports saloon 02.jpg

You have been kind enough to express appreciation of some of the Daimler pictures I’ve uploaded to wikipedia. Your “reward” is another one, but it comes with a request for help. I do not recognise the car.

I took the picture at an oldtimer fest here in Essex, England. It was surrounded by the most infuriating collection of mini-bollards which made it almost impossible to get a (bollard) free view. So I had no mental space left to wonder what it was and was in no mood to hang around trying to find someone to ask. Pity.

But I was confident that the tax office would tell me the engine size and with that information, Culshaw and Horrobin’s complete catalogue of British cars from Yr dot to 1975 would enable me, from that, to infer what it is.

Alas, the engine size is 1998 cc. The tax office might be wrong, but on this occasion there is no obvious reason why he should be. I would hazard a guess that the car is powered by a Ford engine (this is Essex), probably the V4 unit that fits into the Ford Corsair, the Ford Transit van, and as far as I can make out from people who know about squeezing engines into small places, almost everything else.

Which leaves the Daimler unidentified.

Any suggestions available for sharing, in your own time, would be gratefully received.

Regards Charles01 (talk) 17:47, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Charles! Just brilliant, what this cold and wet midwinter day needed! I suspect you are well ahead of me. First problem is the library found another customer who has taken 'my' reference book but I will get it back in due course. I've little hesitation in saying it is a 2¼-litre New Fifteen, Not the standard saloon six-light with fastback £475 shaped very like a differently blunt-nosed Snipe but the four-light sports saloon £485 - less passenger space (close-coupled) and a good large boot (profile very like the later Austin Sheerline) both announced mid-August 1937.
The standard six-light body rapidly morphed into the unfortunate-looking back-heavy DB18 with added boot.
The full factory range included a four-door (sic) true, see drop-head cabriolet by Tickford £590 which I suspect became the Dolphin.
The New Fifteen's engine: six-cyl, 2¼ litres, 16.2hp, wheelbase/track 9ft 6in and 4 ft 4in. e. & o.e..
But there is the hesitation, that engine size and those door hinges which are just too prominent to be original I think.
The coachwork looks identical (but in fact on a twelve inch longer wheelbase and wider track) with the very pretty Lanchester 14 Roadrider four-light sports saloon £340 announced a year earlier. The Roadrider's engine: six-cyl, just over 1.5 litres, 13.4hp, 43 @ 4,000 rpm, wheelbase/track 8ft 6in and 4 ft. Adjustable front seats(!) and independent front wheel springing were standard (why the engines and radiators suddenly moved forward).
Wonder if this car's engine was sleeved down as a wartime repair job when spares may have been unavailable or a Lanchester block bored-out as much as the engineer concerned dared?
In any case in my opinion your photograph should go on display identified as a 1937 Daimler New Fifteen four-light sports saloon
Source: The Times, Thursday, Aug 19, 1937; pg. 14; Issue 47767; col C
Cars Of 1938 Daimler And Lanchester FROM OUR MOTORING CORRESPONDENT.
and display advertisement in same issue

Many thanks. I’ll upload it with that name and we’ll see if anyone has a better idea. I slightly doubt that they will, but life and Wikipedia are full of surprises. Sad to think that if we’d had this conversation thirty years ago, there would have been so many more people around to tell us “what” based on their own detailed memories of 1937. Still, that was a scarey time here in Europe, as everyone saw a rerun of the First World War on the horizon and no one had figured a way to prevent it (though some thought they might have done). The brutal truth was that too many of the pressures and real-world rivalries that had existed in 1914 remained in place and / or had returned to the agenda 25 years later, some of them arguably more intensified than the last time round. Back to cars.
What I had not mentioned - I think, now, that I should have done - was that the car I photographed appears to be in regular use as an upmarket hire car for summer weddings. So if you needed to replace the door hinges and could not get hold of fittings of the original grade(s) of steel, safety and reliability (and not getting sued) might very well be a higher priority than authenticity of hinge dimensions. I think this also favours my suggestion of an “off the shelf easy to service” Ford engine, though the idea of a “sleeved down” original (or even previously bored out) unit is an intriguing one. And then sitting down with appropriate measuring gauges and getting into the old familiar fights with the Great God Pi.. But still running like that 65 years after the war ended? Hmmm.
"...A bit like a [more brutally cut-down] Rover P1 sports saloon I photographed last year..."
Anyway, thank you for giving this so much soundly based thought. Certainly the back half of the car did look a bit like a cut-back version of something originally designed to take a more bulbous/spacious back end. A bit like a Rover P1 sports saloon I photographed last year. Then as frequently in the intervening decades, mainstream UK automakers followed one another pretty mindlessly in matters of car design.
Risk of further digression beckons. But again, thank you much.
Regards Charles01 (talk) 09:15, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Don't know how to do it but here is a sign of someone who would know, or claims to. How to make contact? .
Maybe I'll try a bit more googling.
Isn't two a better pic? Might I try bollard extraction with Adobe elements?
Yes, I could have got several better angles without those bleeping bollardlets. If you think you can improve the better angled picture in respect of those things, please (time permitting) do it and I will not object. However, when I tried it with the shadow of a lamp post on another car
Alpine A110 Cortina d'Ampezzo 1972.jpg
(image attached) I gave up. Ditto an experienced wiki improver of images with whom I was in touch at the time. Wheels are difficult things.
Wedding car. The mascot's quite acrobatic. Yr thoughts re hinges v. sound. Wondered about the carefully placed brochures. Until they decided to copy (very nicely) the 1955 Plymouth all Rovers were, er, distinctive weren't they. I believe the 2000TC was meant by the Wilks to have a nose like a DS19 but their board would not wear it.
Need to discuss multinationals and feelings with you and here might be a good place to do it, later when I have sorted some things out. It takes a full century to forget things. The US civil war was still a recurring subject 40 years ago. Eddaido (talk) 10:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Not sure where this leads, but since my great grandmother was born near Charleston SC, and once you get back to the early settler families at the end of the seventeenth century there were relatively few pink skinned families in the area, so we all tend to be inter-related from those parts, I therefore have lots of mostly fairly distant cousins with SC connections. I had not spotted, however, that the backwash from the civil war had gone away. It was a horrible thing, regardless of what you think the issues are now / were then, and the consequences endure. As far as multinationals are concerned, I'm not sure my feelings are particularly well honed. Except that I have worked for them in my time.
Heckles inserted above. Regards Charles01 (talk) 13:18, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Hullo both, according to dear old Michael Sedgwick there were no Fifteens after 1936, which is why I originally suggested that it was either a DB17 or DB17/1. From what you both say "New 15" seemed the better answer and I was ready to bow my head in shame, but then I found a quote at the Daimler and Lanchester Centre (here): "2166cc from 1937, but by then it was the "New 15",aka DB17/1" - which would make it seem that we can all be right. Upon closer reading, Sedgwick does mention that the DB17 was indeed called the Fifteen (even though it was of 16.2 tax hp). In either case, Daimler did like to confuse matters at the time. Mr.choppers (talk) 13:25, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
As for bollards, the best would be to take two or three pictures from very slightly differing positions, which would allow for easy photoshopping using elements from the various shots. Mr.choppers (talk) 13:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
I suspect you people haven't used my new software. Stand by but don't hold the breath as it is now too long past bedtime. Eddaido (talk) 13:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
positive i.d. I may have lost the duvet for a moment but there was something about hurtling round and through high passes in my blue Alpine Eddaido (talk) 21:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
This is a seriously impressive piece of evidence. Well done (without wishing to sound in any way patrinising) and thank you. Regards Charles01 (talk) 06:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I am very sorry, I have overwritten your image file, can you fix it? A more massaged version to come in a moment, I shall try to understand better before I do it. Eddaido (talk) 11:35, 28 June 2011 (UTC) Arm, well, maybe that is what is supposed to happen? I see they are all equally accessable, very much hope no offence taken. Glad you liked the old ad. Nice to hear about S.C. My BWI lot lost interests in Carolina - Loyalists you see. Must look at the Alpine image. Many thanks for your assistance. Eddaido (talk) 11:55, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I am not sure what happened, so don't take too much notice of any diagnosis implicit herein. But I can be very bad at letting others have the last word.
Yesterday (I think it must have been yesterday) I noticed the first image of the Daimler 15 that I had uploaded appeared to have disappeared. At the time when I noticed, I had already decided I wanted to upload a new version with a better name; so I was about to apply to have the earlier one deleted. So as far as the image is concerned, then, no harm done. None at all. That is ... assuming we are talking about the same incident. Which I think we must be. My first image had half (approx) a lady looking determinedly summery in shorts on the right margin. The second image, apart from having a more descriptive name, had this half lady cropped out. I hope no one minded. I also cropped out the tips of a couple of mini-bollards. The only thing that disappeared with the disappeared image that I had wanted to look at again was some helpful remarks from Mr Choppers on the discussion page. I did feel a bit bad about having lost these without having sufficiently digested them. But he has kindly summarized them as part of this present discussion, so after 24 (might be 48) hours, nothing is lost, even from the discussion. Clear as mud? Don't worry if it doesn't make total sense. I am easily confused by things computers do, with or without input from members of the human race. Regards Charles01 (talk) 13:09, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I think it comes down to you to make the decision as to which version is to be displayed.
I'm looking forward to reading the new article on the Daimler New Fifteen. Eddaido (talk) 13:29, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
What happened wi'dem bollards? You seem to have mastered that debollarding software. Don't let me stop you if you want to get in first with a wiki-entry on the car. I'd probably get round to it eventually if you didn't, but you sound as if you may already have the bit halfway between your teeth on this one.  ?. I'm not sure I have too much text at my finger tips, tho the table on page 115 of Colshaw & H provides at least a starting point for an info box. Also this seems to have been the first Daimler with coil springs at the front which is consistent with the guff in the wonderful identifying ad you found, and does mark the car out a bit from the common herd.
Incidentally, have you noticed that the ad appears to describe the car as a six light saloon, whereas the car in the picture looks like what I would think of as a four light saloon? OR have I spent the first >50 years of my life with a private bordering on unique opinion of what a six light saloon looks like? Ho hum Charles01 (talk) 15:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
No, no. Here's an ad for the six-light standard super-staid version here. Anyone can see why any Daimler exec. could have seen a need for a 'sports saloon' version and with "Toughened Wood". Someone should tell NASA and send a core-sample from YSJ407 though it is probably what holds it all together. Anyway I think they put the (new design) (Military) Scout engine into this same (6-light) chassis/body combo and called it DB18. Something new every day, I see close-coupled comes from animals with a short loin / short back.
And certain royal cars of the time had their grilles painted black - which may account for the wholly original condition (yeah hinges). I suspect that if the docs are lost (and plate?) one is obliged to re-register the car from scratch. The dreadful rust does not suggest Malta but well-salted winter roads. I don't like the bent badge-bar and you don't like licence numbers . . . Eddaido (talk) 21:59, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
OK, I didn't hold off for very long. But you can see (1) I really don't know too much about the car and (2) I'm pretty hazy about the timelines. Additions and probably corrections from someone armed with knowledge and sources are needed. That's you. I guess I'll ask Malcolm, too. He knows a lot about cars from this period when he has time to add to an entry, though as far as I know he doesn't have any particular specialism regarding Daimlers. As you may know, somewhere round 1933 the British auto-industry became the largest national auto-industry in Europe. Then as now currency devaluation while desperately trying to talk about something else didn't do too much for the nation's savers and pensioners, but it did encourage investment and consumption which provided the UK government a short term credit-cushioned recovery that enabled the British economy to outgrow the French for a bit. French wiki isn't, for the most part, so interested in cars, but often with English cars from the 1930s there are German entries one can copy from a guy called (I think) Hans-Martin who lives near the western frontier of Bavaria, and there's an Italian called Luc from whom I sometimes translate Italian language text, but on this car I couldn't find anything from any of our enthusiasts on continental Europe. So for now we, the anglophones seem to be on our own as regards this model! Regards Charles01 (talk) 09:37, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Charles, that is Marvellous. Still amused as I had indeed read your comment as indicating enthusiasm! No Need to choose that image. Europeans. Yes, I sometimes have a look too. Google translate seems wonderful, but only at first. re planned consultation. On Ford of Britain (The associated companies) I came to a halt with the involvement in Ford of Germany 1932-1945. My proposed note is gestating but I thought I would put the draft here for you to edit first before I added it to the Ford of B article (rather than any mention on Ford of G which can be someone else's job - if it needs to be on record). Did I tie up Ford France OK (on F of B)? Might go a little further into that. I'm not going to forget but it might be a while before I 'get it out on paper' and will leave you a note when have put it here for your perusal etc. Eddaido (talk) 10:19, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I ran an eye over the Ford of Britain entry which was interesting. Living much of my life in Britain in Essex, I've been aware of the company for as long as I can remember. It's fun to see other people coming at half remembered facts and background from different angles. Even now, they seem to be one of the best employers locally in Essex in terms of the apparent newness of the cars and clothes of the people who work for them. I've started a couple of entries on their plants, but you've - at least I think it must be you: I've not "audited" each change - really got to grips with the way the company ownership structure evolved. Big subject. And there are so many english speaking people around who used to work for Ford that almost inevitably the entry will lose coherence over time simply because of the large number of people all (well almost all) of whom will have interesting stuff to contribute, but all of whom will in their own minds structure the overall entry differently. Thus a strength and a weakness of the wiki-project. But right now the entry is looking uncommonly coherent. Thanks. Probably (in English) an entry of Ford of Germany or Ford in France would receive much less editing, and so to the extent that it's fun to come back after five years and find stuff one wrote still, broadly, intact, work there might be less frustrating. But this is speculative as I haven't looked at either recently. Probably soon will. The problem that screams to me on Ford of Germany in English language wikipedia is the Ford Taunus entry. It really screams (I think) to be broken up into separate entries for different models. I see (on a brief glance) that German language wiki provides a more useful structural model than it did last time (probably a couple of years back) I had these thoughts. Though I have the sense that even in Germany and even at the time successive Ford models weren't as clearly differentiated a successive Opel models, and today there seems to be less warmth concerning "classic car period" Fords than contemporary Opels. I guess in Germany the Opels at almost every level and at almost every stage in time outsold the poor old Fords even at the time. Ford from Cologne were having to compete just on price far too much of the time. Ach, just rambling. Time to leave the wiki-screen. Regards Charles01 (talk) 19:41, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Daimler Type TB22-9½ 1909[edit]

Daimler TB22-9andahalf 1909 or 1921 3568cc.jpg
Jowett Ten style says late 1930s.jpg

Definitely not with disrupting the day jobs or even the morning's second cup of coffee. But I've just been to an unexpectedly interesting classic car show, and though it had none of the cars I'd been hoping to see it did include some interesting ones that I hadn't.

This car (the Daimler) has already been photographed and the image uploaded by someone else. But I thought the profile shot was maybe still worthwhile. However, there's a problem as you can see. After your miracle working with the Daimler New 15 I thought there could be no harm in trying to tempt you with this one. But if it's not worth it, feel free to resist any temptation.

The Jowett I think is a Jowett Ten. It just could be a Jowett Eight. Either way, I'm only about 85% sure of my ground. I remember, I think, you have a particular thing with Jowetts. It would be reassuring (or not) if you do recognise it if you could tell me whether you agree over what it is.

Like I said, not urgent. I have to collect one of the kids. But thanks for any thoughts to share and best wishes. Charles01 (talk) 18:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Daimler 22hp
Daimler 20hp open tourer
torpedo-style body (1913 example)
The profile shot of the Daimler is worthwhile but I cannot adequately repair the finned top to its radiator. Perhaps another time a long arm might be a little officious and extract any obscuring flagstaff for the briefest moment? Curiously enough, concerned at the way your picture of a 20 hp Daimler differs so much from the car in discussion I phoned the owner of the red car a couple of weeks ago to see if the wheels were unusually large - they are, so I noted that below the pic. And then I got to enlarging the tyre size in the grey car and they are almost as large! Why are the cars so different in proportion/scale? Incidentally the 9½ is because it is on a 9ft 6inch wheelbase. Useful data, just unexpected. I must get back that Daimler book.
I must revive my interest in Jowett too. I have had the material (from an expert) for an embarrassingly long time and been distracted. Am trying to get back into the almost too hard basket. I must post up a draft of Ford too. So much to do and on WP too. There may not have been a lot of models available at this time Eddaido (talk) 13:12, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Hmmm I think it has to be a Jowett Eight but the leading edge of the front mudguards seem to be different from the car in this photo Eight and that little badge in the hole for the crankhandle would be so easy to lose/swap and I would hate to have my life depend on this opinion. I'm only going on ideas from doing lots of Googling. (I should have noted, the blue car has flappy electric signalling arms, the beige car does not). Best. Eddaido (talk) 14:03, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the sharing of information and thoughts. On the Jowett I follow (most of) your logic. ("Most of..."? Well, I think when new any 1930s English (any European car with any turn indicator) car would have had flappy electric signalling arms (I think when I was young we called them "flippers" though the word "semaphore" also crops up sometimes.) The flashing lights will, I suggest, have been retrofitted because (1) the flippers stayed out if you switched off the ignition with one of them raised, and then you knocked them off when you got out of the car looking forwards, flipper directly behind you and (2) even if you didn't knock them off they were always going wrong and (3) other drivers no longer look out for flippers.) I don't think I'll change the name of the picture quite yet. Now the owner has it running I might even get another chance for a closer look at the grill-badge or word with the owner at an Oldtimerfest later in the summer. Best wishes Charles01 (talk) 18:25, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Going back to the red and grey Daimlers. I think the red car's springs are slung under the axles, whereas the grey car's springs are above the axles. I'd be very grateful if you could take a mental note to confirm/deny this if you see the red one again or notice similar vehicles about, I can't get certain from the photos. I see flippers are very much older than I knew. Eddaido (talk) 01:41, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Noted. Both these cars seem to be "regulars" on the classic car scene round here so I might indeed get a chance to observe and / or photograph how the springs relate to the axles. Writing this reaction increases the chance that I'll remember, too.... Regards Charles01 (talk) 08:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Rowland Brotherhood image[edit]

Hi, I see you've edited this en:WP article; there is an image here:

if you'd like to add it.


PS Would have emailed this but there was a problem.

Thank you. Two things, which Rowland Brotherhood is it and where did the image come from?
My interest was in Stanley Brotherhood who had an association with Humber Limited who made cars.
Why don't you just add it at the right spot.
Thanks. Eddaido (talk) 08:25, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
It's this Rowland Brotherhood:, the engineer, as the source makes clear. I have no original provenance for the image but since it must be out of copyright due to its age, that shouldn't matter. I'd add it myself but I am currently banned from Wikipedia, so I am reliant upon the goodwill of others to improve it. Cheers. Rodhullandemu (talk) 11:16, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. There is both a father and a son of the same name on that page. I didn't know you are in the Wikipedia dogbox but you'll be out soon no doubt and you can add it then. I have photos of this period and older and they are often amazingly clear. Can't you get a scan of the real original? Eddaido (talk) 02:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Ford of Britain[edit]

Hi Charles01, Briefly and from memory (so pretend this is in Wikipedia). When the tariff barriers went up in 1932 Ford promptly got on the right side of the local government. The biggest block of new shares were issued to I G Farben and Farben's chair took the local Ford chair (no public issue because Germany then diff in these matters, other shares were issued to some dealers). Ford in 1937 accepted the personal award of their highest civilian award from Hitler but in Sweden. Hitler unabashed admirer of HF. Interesting outcomes; when US troops (in the field) met German troops in 1945 they were angry to find the Germans using "their" transport. Ford was very unwilling to enter into (US) "Defence contracts". The works at Cologne survived the war miraculously unscathed (!?), just the admin block had been damaged (by I think retreating troops) in the last days (obviously by terrible accident demanding full compensation) and some of the machinery had been re-located within Cologne. France? I don't remember but of course they had been well organised and went straight into the right kind of production the minute France fell. Essential concept is International Capitalists are above politics and its petty fights. HF avoided personal gross post-war US public embarrassment by being apparently senile (prob true enough) and Edsel dead. Though of course did get some, just not the full treatment. Can provide here many external links to reports if you wish. Very interested in your thoughts. Must finish with Jowett. Despondent Eddaido (talk) 10:11, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

My brush was too broad. Farben director (Carl Krauch) became deputy chairman. By 1943 shareholdings are said to have been Dearborn 52%, Dagenham 6%, Farben 42%. Hitler awarded HF Grand Cross of the German Eagle (highest award to a foreigner) for 75th birthday July 1938 and consul handed it over in Dearborn. Wonder what was picked up in Sweden. To what extent should this (any at all?) be covered in Ford of Britain? Eddaido (talk) 12:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, it's all interesting stuff. To begin (as I tend to) at the end, presumably when you write "...[should] be covered in Ford of Britain?" you mean "...[should] be covered in Ford Germany? " Provided that's what you mean, then my answer is "yes, of course". However, as ever with wikipedia, you will need to be able to cite sources. That's much more important here than it usually is, because you are discussing Hitler. Hitler is the only bit of history they study at the schools in England, and we all have strong views because he was very bad, and this helps us to feel very good about England's own history. So I would suggest everything you write on Ford of Germany in the 1930s needs to be heavily sourced to avoid looking like any sort of personal opinion piece - which in any case would be unencyclopaedic.
As for Henry Ford, I claim no special insights. During the First world war I think the word on the street was that he tended towards pacifism which is why, during the First World War, Ford's the bit of Ford's contribution to the British War Effort is specially strong not on tanks but on agricultural tractors. (Though please appreciate that I come at this through the prism of English motor magazines. It might look different from the American mid-west.) I've no idea where you learned your history, but here in England, what we chiefly remember about the Americans and the First World War is that they joined it very late. Once you get to the World War II I think it's important to avoid reading history backwards, even if everyone does. I suspect the east coast patrician radical liberal establishment (read FDR and those who worshipped at his shrine) will always have regarded Hitler with suspicion and distaste. A resurgent Germany meant trouble for other world powers. But FDR's own economic policy was not a million miles from Hitler's or that of Maynard Keynes. We know what happened next. We know Hitler did vile stuff to millions of people. They didn't know in 1935 that he was that rare thing, a politician who actually believed his own propaganda. And there was nothing east coast or patrician about Henry Ford. In the mid-west there were lots of German settlers who were enthusiastic about the prospect of Germany finally taking her place at the top table of nations. If you look at all the people who spoke German at home but had to speak English in public, in the 1930s there were plenty at home and in the factories who clustered round the little radio in places like Milwaukee listening to the Fuehrer's speeches from across the sea. No doubt most were as horrified as everyone else when the extermination camp rumors started to emerge five years later, but you can't expect people to have foreseen all that stuff in 1935. And even if you ignore the millions of folks with German ancestors, there was a lot of anti-Britishness in the American mid-west triggered by the tense state of Anglo-Irish relations in the wake of the Irish civil war. Once you get to the Second World War, the Irish free state was resolutely neutral, but plenty of Irish citizens fought in the British armies against the Germans and were very badly treated by the Irish state, after the war. Loyalties and patriotisms everywhere - and certainly in the American mid-west - were a lot less one-dimensional than they became after 1945 and we all worked out that the good guys had won so it must have been the bad guys that had lost. This is not a mindless ramble. It is pointing out that if Henry Ford was sympathetic to the idea of a resurgent Germany in the 1930s, he was simply representing the time and place where he lived. In England, feeling was very divided about Germany in the 1930s. Lots of liberals and lefties - and of course Churchill and his very small band of supporters in the British political establishment - "saw through" the Nazis from before 1933, but the old political establishment mostly didn't. And it's only after six years of brilliant wartime propaganda that Hitler emerges - helped enormously by his own geneocidal policies - as a sort of pantomime villain, fulfilling much the same role that the Brits had imputed with equal success to Napoleon Buonaparte a century earlier. That's where, in the anglosphere, he's remained ever since, while "our" heroic ally, cuddly old Joe Stalin only slowly sinks to the same level of official "bad guy", despite the Iron curtain and the Cold War. Well, you don't need to follow me down all these tracks. But I do think that condemning Henry Ford for admiring Hitler only works if you read your history backwards. And real history actually travels forwards. Or? No doubt, if Germany had won the Second World War (and if they hadn't invaded Russia and if the Japanese hadn't done Pearl Harbor...) we'd be having this discussion in reverse. Henry Ford was sympathetic to the Brits! Yikes. Of course, Henry Ford was chiefly sympathetic to Henry Ford. He was driven by his own very powerful agenda which involved building a business and making lots of cars. He would have hoped to end up on the winning side even if the isolationists had kept Roosevelt from joining in with the war. No surprises there, methinks. Regards Charles01 (talk) 19:16, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Isn't this where I'm called upon to disagree, angrily?
  • Disagreement one: I did mean Ford of Britain, I just wanted to show that they had some substantial hand in Ford activities on the Continent but it didn't last long did it. Will not consider at all writing anything in Ford of Germany article.
  • D2; I didn't say or mean HF was an admirer of Hitler though he may have been - but the admiration did flow the other way. I'm a sucker for flattery myself, simply can't get enough.
  • And finally D3, the way you cheerfully badmouth Uncle Joe Stalin fair takes the breath away. Only joking.
Otherwise I'd be content to use the same hymn sheet. Trouble with it is though that you are concerned with the why, I want to report what happened. What happened was that HF backed the wrong horse yet achieved a tails he won, heads he won result - he was as powerful as that, "capitalism red in tooth and claw". He had no alternative but to appear badly affected by the death of his unfortunate son(!) and 'they' were soft enough to let him off the treason charges.
Anyway, I want to say something like this in FoB. (Again from memory so it is unreliable) More capital was required and shares were privately issued to some Ford dealers and (biggest block) to I G Farben, the most cooperative of businesses, which then appointed Carl Krauch deputy chairman of Ford of Germany AG. In 1940 Ford Werke AG was incorporated to take over the business, the capital was again increased, Dearborn's shareholding reduced from 75% to 52% and Farben's increased to 42% leaving Dagenham at 6%. Dagenham's 6% was purchased by Dearborn in 1950. Eddaido (talk) 12:13, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes. I'd read through the updates from the start of summer on the Ford of Britain entry, but hadn't really absorbed it to my long term memory. Having looked again, I can indeed see where the further detail on Ford of Germany in the 1930s would fit into the Ford of Britain entry (though I still say that a lot of it belongs in the Ford of Germany entry AS WELL). And I suppose having started down this road, there's scope for rolling out more on how the relationships involving Matford (and then from 1940 the Poissy based Ford business and how that got integrated into Cologne towards the end of the war) and involving the Russian enterprise panned out. And then ... I guess there's a whole lot more to be written about what Ford of Britain got up to inside Britain. On the one hand this could go on an awful long time, but on the other (1) we are all steered by our areas of knowledge and of interest - and those of our sources - and on the other (2) there is always a fine judgement on when to expand an existing entry and when to expand it into two new ones. I slightly wondered about splitting the Ford of Britain into more than one chronological sequence Maybe something like (1) FoB as an investee, (2) FoB as an international investor and (3) FoB as an automaker in ... um ... Britain. Tho for (3) as long as one leans heavily on non-specialist journalistic reports we'll get an awful lot in the 1960s - 80s on industrial relations which is valid but also sad, and rather ignores the way that between 1945 and say 1975 FoB really were setting the pace for the (again, sometimes a little sad) entire UK auto-industry. Don't pursue my idea of setting up more than one chronology unless it really "grabs" you. It looks like a lot of work and I'm not sure where it might lead!
I remember a few years ago a BC based friend arranged for me to have 6 months trial access to a Canadian based media outfit's on-line archive which included a massive searchable sub-archive of The Times of London. Can't help wondering if you've plugged into some equivalent deal. I'm afraid I used it chiefly for researching ancestors which feels rather introspective in the present context.
On Henry Ford and his relations with the German government of the time, I had, before replying, done some googling which pointed me to various anti-Henry conspiracy theories of the kind one finds on the web, and in that respect I almost certainly read more into your question than you'd put there. Sorry. Though I DO NOT retreat from my insistence that reading history backwards is something we should have grown out of (but in most cases haven't).
No further thoughts on this. On the Rolls Royce identification thank you for sharing yours. There has been a program on English television recently about Rolls-Royces in India and indeed, this could well be such a car. Like you I have with this been hovering between ghosts and phantoms which sounds a tad unnatural to say (write) the least.
Regards Charles01 (talk) 14:50, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Rolls Royce March 1924 7681cc.jpg
Dear Eddaido
I hesitate to ask you this one, because I think the answer is obvious. Then again....The engine appears to be a non-standard size, (if the tax office have it right) and I think that at some stage big Rolls Royces stopped being called Silver Ghost and started being called Phantom. Any, I think this must be a Silver Ghost. Does that work for you, please? And thank you. Regards Charles01 (talk) 06:58, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm totally unbiassed - you see I know nothing about Rolls-Royces. I've spent an hour and a half on this without coming to any confident decision. Odd no shutters on the radiator (though I have seen it before) and there are louvres along the side of the bonnet, was it bound for a hot climate? No brakes on the front wheels. Permanent engine crank. I notice the badges on the front (great photo) might be Japanese or Chinese. More work on this tomorrow, I've gone sleepy Eddaido (talk) 13:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
AARGH! Of course it must be a (late) Ghost, I've been trying to make it a Phantom, daft. Eddaido (talk) 14:12, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
It does seem to me that this class of car (where I imagine a first buyer could easily be provided with variations in engine size etc) and which may well have been er restored quite a number of times (so no longer 'original') by now really does need expert knowledge, the kind that members of the owners' clubs will have. I once assumed that my errors in Wikipedia would be picked up and fixed by exactly those persons. Now I know they don't. It is my wish that Wikipedia's car articles improve to a standard where those people can no longer afford to disregard Wikipedia. I see there have been some recent excitements about 1920s, 1930s Bugattis that are not Bugattis, cars with identical engine and chassis numbers. Regards, Eddaido (talk) 02:45, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Park Ward Eddaido (talk) 05:12, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Park Ward it is. Noted. Thank you. Regards Charles01 (talk) 09:26, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
The Chev was newish, I was 15 (my birthday) and all cars round here are RHD. Time now 12:58 Sunday am. Cheers Eddaido (talk) 12:58, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


Hello Eddaido, I noticed that you added a few MGAs to Carbodies Coachwork. Were all MGAs built by Carbodies or is there some way to tell? Best, Mr.choppers (talk) 14:38, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I currently have this book from the library and I am scanning it to come up with a more accurate and detailed answer but so far it does not much trouble this author The Story of the MG Sports Car. Will come back to you here. Cheers, Eddaido (talk) 11:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

MG Midget series D 1931-32 Airline coupés F2 Magna Sports 1932 sweeping generalisation

this book should provide a firm answer All I need to do is find a copy and confirm it (easier said than done). In the meantime I will take the MGA photos out of the Carbodies article (but for the moment leave them in the Wikimedia category. OK? Eddaido (talk) 13:06, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm advised Carbodies made all the standard MG bodies to 1933. Post WW2: TC-TF were made by Morris Bodies, then Pressed Steel. I'm off to remove the bad mistakes from Wikimedia Category:Carbodies Coachwork. I hope to gather more reliable information and there may be further amendments. Thank you very much for so tactfully letting me know the error of my ways. I hate my own mistakes worst of all! Eddaido (talk) 19:36, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
I honestly had no clue that you were incorrect, and was not suggesting anything such - if you were indeed misinformed I am glad that we are rectifying things, but I was absolutely not doubting your edits. I was asking because I simply wanted to know more about Carbodies and aid in further edits and categorization improvements. So amend away; I don't expect that you will allow any misconstructions to remain permanently. Mr.choppers (talk) 07:17, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Vogue / Super Minx estates[edit]

Singer Vogue Estate License plate 1965.jpg
Hillman Super Minx estate first registered June 1966 1725cc.JPG

I don't want to be difficult (well, not very much and not most of the time) but I would have expected that these two either both did or else both didn't deserve a place in the Carbodies category. But, as ever, I reserve the right to have missed something blindingly obvious to other folks.

Regards Charles01 (talk) 17:52, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Charles01, always good to hear from you, my thoughts too. Double check now under action. Will be back. Eddaido (talk) 22:25, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The book, Carbodies: The Complete Story, has a photo of the Vogue Estates on the tracks at Carbodies. The author holds interview tapes of the then Director and General Manager of Carbodies saying they only converted Vogues and not Super Minxes to estates. Dunno why. Maybe Rootes needed to expand production of possibly only temporarily fashionable estates and decided this was the wiser way to do it? Regards, Eddaido (talk) 21:26, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Interesting. Yes, I guess that might make sense. You expect the estate version to sell very slowly so you subcontract a conversion job to a trusted subcontractor (just as Vauxhall did/would with the Cresta PC estate) but the thing (Vogue/Super Minx estate) sells better than expected so you subsequently tool up to be able to do it on your own production lines which, above a certain volume, gives you the volume to amortize the additional fixed costs involved in introducing the necessary flexibility into your own in-house processes. BUT (and here I become ever more speculative) you have already signed a contract with Carbodies in respect of the Vogue, so you continue with Vogues by Carbodies even while you can ship the Hillman versions (and presuambly could ship the Singer versions) from you plant at Ryton. Hmmmm. And thanks. Charles01 (talk) 05:34, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Nice photos, aren't they. Eddaido (talk) 07:12, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, I think so. But then I would, wouldn't I? Charles01 (talk) 17:39, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Peugeot 302[edit]


You were so kind about those pictures of the Rootes estate cars that I was moved to remember the wonderful remedial work you did on a Daimler picture of mine a few months ago.

Of course a Peugeot 302 is a small popular car whereas the Daimler was a gentleman's conveyance (which sounds more lawyerly than it was meant to). But there's still a whole lot of history in a little Peugeot. The first Peugeot, if I remember correctly, used a Daimler design, with Gottlieb's (paid for) consent. Much more civilised than the Opel:Citroen litigious spat >two decades later.

It's not the best picture I ever took, but the car's current rarity made me persevere. If the sun had been out, it would have been shining from directly behind the car, this being ten minutes after sunrise. But the sun was behind a low cloud at this stage. Also it was raining. So in all the circumstances, I don't think it's such a terrible picture. Though I still don't know whether the headlights, which are meant to be mounted behind the grill, were.

Not worth deferring critical projects. But of you just happened, one day, to have half an hour before the next task, and find yourself tempted to remove the yellow horror, that would be kind. I appreciate I know not what I ask, in terms of easy vs difficult, tie consuming vs brief etc.

Thanks for thinking on it. Regards Charles01 (talk) 19:59, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I just leapt at this opportunity to show off my hard-won skills. Ten hours later I went looking for suitable dog pictures. Hard enough to draw a front wheel for a car that looks like it might be a photograph but this fairly complex wheel and with a mouse - Never! Sorry about my retreat into childishness. I just can't come up with a better solution. Please may I have something easier? If you were really insistent I could try to indicate headlights behind the grille. Let me know. Eddaido (talk) 12:21, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, it'd definitely an improvement on the yellow horror. And it's even stopped licking its bits for long enough to look at the camera. Yellow horror never did that. Maybe I need to take a course in wheel drawing for myself. It shouldn't be that difficult.
Hmmmm Charles01 (talk) 15:31, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
I've never known any pug dogs myself but I think this animal must be something like five times life-size - that alone makes it notable does it not? And the pretty car for a backdrop just completes the picture. If you didn't come up with such clear images the job would be easier but as you do one must come up with a Perfect representation of a wheel, not just an indication of what's there. I look forward with great interest to seeing your post-graduate wheels. Wish I could do this for you. Give me a photo of an identical wheel without clamp and from the same angle and then it would be easy to fix. Pug1 Pug2.
Is any one designer credited with the appearance of these cars? Eddaido (talk) 19:51, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Does the chicken (another early riser) rate as an improvement? Maybe I could reduce its definition or colour or something to make it less prominent? Please provide any suggestions of alternatives for covering the complexities of that unreconstructable wheel! (or tell me to go do something else). Eddaido (talk) 06:12, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Your chicken appears to be a sort of cut 'n shunt job. You have two chickens written off in separate smashes, but the back of one is ok and the front of the other is ok so you weld the two ok halves together and sell it as a kosher chicken. I wouldn't have the welding skills to attempt that, but I'm told it's amazing what you can do with photo-shop. My parents had a chicken called Greensleeves who used to come along on dog walks when I was very young but I was assured we still ate her. But I'm really out of my depth with chickens. And actually, I'm not even sure that the back end of your chicken is off a chicken. I think I'll go back to dreaming about Peugeots. Happy day Charles01 (talk) 14:17, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Oh dear. Sounds to me like a go do something else. I went and looked at the linked original chicken and I now see what you mean. I made a collection of available roosters in Flickr commons and this was a clamp shape, never considered its origins or appearance, just that it would do the job. And I was rather pleased with it. My nasty mess is booked for speedy deletion. I despond. Look at the beautiful detailing around the doors. Apologies, Eddaido (talk) 21:18, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Anyway, if it were mine I'd have clamped the other three wheels too. The images stand on their own, So What if the owner is all possessive about it while in the public eye. We can all see what that 302 should look like and you are to be congratulated for your courage in halting all other operations to take the pictures. Weather clearing here, Eddaido (talk) 01:29, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
The other problem I've just noticed is that I was so pleased with myself for having spotted it that I uploaded it with the wrong name. Tiens as they say down south. Maybe I should stick to chickens after all Charles01 (talk) 15:19, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


Dear #1. I am miserable to have proven such a letdown. In case it improves your estimation of me may I suggest that a well-positioned camera on the course of the London to Brighton Run (in I think a week's time) could capture many more sparkling Charles01 images of Peugeots young and old? Know it means packing a compass and a cut lunch but mightn't the spouse enjoy it? Help me, I'm clutching at straws here. My Highest regards, Eddaido (talk) 01:19, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Might be a tempting suggestion if a free day and bright sunlight coincide on a Sunday in early November. Charles01 (talk) 15:19, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Daimler mystery.jpg[edit]

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File:Daimler mystery.jpg[edit]

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Savhñ 13:25, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Some more unknowns[edit]

This thirties' Aston Martin is unknown to me (well, I am also feeling lazy), and I wonder whether this 1937 Bugatti Roadster has been rebodied? Google gives me nothing. Cheers, mr.choppers (talk)-en- 23:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Gee, you certainly ask hard questions!
All i know is that from time to time I see an old car which just looks wrong when matched with its description. This pair is too exotic for me. I've read of Bugattis now being duplicated and triplicated using the same engine and chassis numbers. They both look in such good order for their age yet I have an old schoolfriend long retired who has spent months chemically removing rust and working in new metal so that the engine of his old car is covered by what is still essentially the same piece of metal, I mean it is possible to make "a silk purse" out of a very badly rumpled "silk purse" if you see what I mean. I do know someone I can write to who lives near where the Aston Martin was exhibited and might know the owner or something of the car concerned. Here's someone in the same area does rebuilds Will let you know if I do find out anything. Regards, Eddaido (talk) 10:37, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
I was nearby (I took the Bugatti image) and neglected to ask the owner any questions. Bugatti owners are often loath to speak to mere mortals anyhow, my $300 watch being a possible obstacle to conversation. In any case, it was a beautiful car and hopefully someone will come along who can amend the description. Cheers, mr.choppers (talk)-en- 06:20, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, here's all about the Aston Martin [[1]]. Easier than I thought! Found through the owner of a local dealer The Toy Shop and now I have just read to the end of the ad and, blow me down, I can sort of claim to know the (then) owner! Now is the hour Over to you to update the Wikimedia file. The opinion from The Toy Shop was the Bugatti is probably real. My watch problem is even uglier! Eddaido (talk) 01:23, 12 June 2012 (UTC)


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El Grafo (talk) 11:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

File:1951 Daimler 2½ Litre Consort Saloon ad.jpg[edit]

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High Contrast (talk) 10:38, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Re: File:Daimler DK400 RSP5533.jpg[edit]

Sorry for the late response. This is how it goes: The original image was on flickr under a license that lets you do anything you want with it and license it under the same license. There is no need to add the flickr template. I think that there is no issue with this. And by the way, amazing use of photoshop. If you have any more questions, please ask them here as I watchlisted your page :) — ΛΧΣ21 06:09, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for all this. My concern was for the owner of the copyright who was watching but he advised me yesterday (when I checked with him) he was not concerned about it. Many thanks, Eddaido (talk) 10:33, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
Don't worry. Every work released under a Creative Commons license compatible with Commons can be reused, changed and tweaked by anyone. The only restriction is that you have to say from where you took the original work, and license your derivate work under a similar license :) — ΛΧΣ21 15:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, but I find images I want and then tackle the owner and pester (as much as I dare which isn't much, but I must say I have received some very rude communications! Get Stuffed would be relatively polite) until I persuade them to give it the appropriate licence in e.g. Flickr or, best of all to make their own direct upload to Wikimedia. Anyway I have this sense of obligation to them to show them all is fair and above board - 'transparent', I'm 'accountable'? for what happens?, and that I am grateful to them for being so obliging. (As I am to the volunteers that administer Wikimedia - Thanks!) That particular donor was fascinated by the WP / WM structure and organisation etc etc (own words) "as a professional geek, I find it interesting to see all the 'behind the scenes' especially such behemoths as Wiki". Cheers, Eddaido (talk) 00:57, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I know. I have poked many users on Flickr to change their rights so that I can upload their pictures to Commons :) Thankfully, I have only had grateful interactions with those people and I let them know I am very grateful for their work and for giving me the permission to use it. Regards. — ΛΧΣ21 01:08, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Cat sort order[edit]

Why are you attempting to impose a category sort order of chronological years, even though this has almost no relevance in most cases and it disrupts any more rational cat sort order that's already there? Andy Dingley (talk) 09:58, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Only because I find it extremely useful and no one else seems to use it. You mention a cat sort order already there, can you tell me where I can see this? I realise there is an automatic sort by the file name but then that fails once there is more than one contributor each with their own ideas for a file name. Going back to your general comment is there a particular example that may have caught this attention? I find it very useful for example with something like Model T cars where if they are in date order it is then easy to see the improvements. Eddaido (talk) 06:59, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
I think that for some cars, such a sorting makes a lot of sense - especially when they have already been subdivided into the smallest possible categories (ie, the Delahaye 135 MS rather than Delahaye vehicles). Personally, I have been hiding the chassis numbers of some cars I have photographed inside the category names, and I hope such information isn't deleted in the process of sorting by year. mr.choppers (talk)-en- 00:28, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Its really nice to hear from you. I debated at length whether or not to begin a discussion about this on one of the talk pages and decided against it. I have been to some trouble to try to avoid destroying any categorisation my concern being to get all images of the same things together on one page. We have pictures of the same car by in some cases I think three different photographers and all categorised in different sub-categories because they had been categorised in bulk. This might be rude but it did seem to me this was quicker and easier for the uploader who is obliged to categorise and wants the job done as quickly and as easily as possible i.e. in bulk. This, it seemed to me, being so then I thought they were Very unlikely to even notice I had rejigged the categories of their contributions.
I would hate to have brought about a loss of info. Can you give me a guide to the images/categories with hidden chassis numbers so I can check? Best regards, Eddaido (talk) 00:55, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Post script - you realise I just changed Delahaye 135 MS to Delahaye Type 135 MS so now it fits with the others? Eddaido (talk) 00:55, 2 October 2013 (UTC)


Hi, that car is a Daimler 250 V8, you can recognize it by the upper border of the front grille. It was a luxury version of the "normal" Jaguar Mark 2 and it was equipped with a 2.5 litre V8 engine, instead of the 2.4 and 3.4 litre engines that equipped the Jaguar siblings.

That's all. Bye bye ! --Luc106 (talk) 11:05, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

That's right, and I wrote to you because you categorised it as a Jaguar. Eddaido (talk) 01:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Alvis TE 2 Graber Super[edit]

Hi Eddaido,

thanks for your message about the Alvis TE2 "Graber Super". I'm far from being an Alvis specialist, so if you really think that's better, then you should probably do it Clin Anyway, I put it in a separate category for 2 reasons:

  1. it was marked a TE2, not a TE21. Maybe that was only an error of the owner who wrote the identification card.
  2. it looks clearly different than the others TE21's, especially regarding the wide radiator grille, front lights (guys in Morges told me they were from a Facel-Vega), boot with no handle, etc.

As I'm understanding things, Alvis chassis were bodied by various coachbuilders (I'll soon upload 2 TE21's I saw in Morges, a Park-Ward bodied coupé and a convertible whose coachbuilder I'm not sure, but I think it was Graber too. It has different front lights than the other ones, but if you can help me identify it …). I know for having seen it on last years' Morges' TC 108 Graber identification card that Graber had made various different bodies for Alvis chassis of the same kind (apparently there were not 2 similar TC 108 G's), so I suppose it may be the same for the TE21, or at least some of them.

So, I suppose it would be a good idea to have separate categories for cars with such special bodies, especially if there are several pictures of them. So we could have Category:Alvis TE21, with subcategories Category:Alvis TE21 by Graber and Category:Alvis TE21 by Park-Ward, and Category:Alvis TE 2 Graber Super as well if it's established it's only a particular version of the TE21, and not a different car. What do you think of it ?

Cheers, Akela NDE (talk) 10:25, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

This is my take on events, please understand I am not laying down a system of recognised historic facts. I've arranged reference books which I should go and collect.
1.Graber made beautiful very well finished very luxurious bodies, they put bodies on Bentleys, Lagondas and Alvises and . . . others. Indeed English cars were very popular in Switzerland in the 1940s and 50s. Alvis, it seems, still had a racy aura round the sanatoria.
2. Alvis seemed to prefer making big money out of defence contracts and then maybe making a few cars (as if a sideline). Eventually their car offering became an acute embarrassment. A speedy solution to a very urgent problem ( read this) was to gear up Graber and sell cars with their body as the now standard Alvis. This was the Alvis TC 108 Graber and Very expensive it was with all that duty on an import from Switzerland - no Common Market‎ or even EFTA?.
3 Because the Graber car was a great looker it got attention but not enough sales at such a high price and so instead Alvis got the same body made in England by various parties finally settling on Park Ward.
4. Graber went on making the same bodies and putting them on Alvises (and other cars) and there is every reason why your car should be a TE2 Graber on a TE21 Alvis chassis because it is not a stock Alvis, it iis pehaps being described as a stock Alvis TE 21 chassis with a TE 2 Graber body - does that make sense? Yes Graber did use bits from other cars like Rolls-Royce tail lights etc and why not Facel Vega too.
5. With 1930s and 1940s and early 50's Bentley there were many coachbuilders. With Alvis there were only the two of any real consequence once they threw away the TC 21 body and they were Graber and Park Ward.
If you don't mind I would rather we had no sub-categories for Alvis coachbuilders but just put the Alvises in their own Alvis categories and their bodies when non-standard under the coachbuilders' names. Would that be OK? I don;t mind discussing it further.
In any case with the Alvis type of car it is always important to learn the coachbuilder if at all possible. I look forward to seeing your new images, I've admired quite a number in the recent past. Regards, Eddaido (talk) 11:09, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for that pretty clear answer Smile fasdfdsfoiueire.svg So I will upload the other Alvises in, say, the TE21 category for the first one, and just Alvis Cars for the one I'm not sure of (I sutpidely forgot to take a picture of its identification card) ; you or another Alvis specialist may be able to decide whether it's a TE21, TF21 or other, by the normal coachbuilder or by a custom one.
Concerning the TE2 Graber Super, as it's apparently a custom body on a standard chassis, I still think it should be in a category of its own: a car is made of chassis and body, so if it doesn't have a standard TE21 body, it's not a normal TE21, but a particular version of a TE21 - hence a specific subcategory of the TE21 cat' for the pictures of it. But, once again, that's only my opinion, cause I'd hate people to spot a picture of the Graber special and imagine its features were standard to all TE21. So, if you think it's better to put it in the "normal" TE21 category, feel free. I'm totally ready to admit I'm a fanatic of divisions in subcategories of subcategories Clin
Oh and thanks for your compliments on my pictures, too. I'm trying to do my best with limited talent and, unfortunately, a poor camera. But it's really nice to see people like them!
Cheers, Akela NDE (talk) 20:34, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
HI, I'll respond on your talk page. Eddaido (talk) 20:43, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello again,
I'm sorry if I made you think I saw a conflict there: I see none. We apparently have different opinions on how to organize pictures categories of cars who share the same chassis and engines, but have different bodyworks: I don't think that's really important. it's only that, to me, the bodywork is part of a car's identity. But I definitely have no problems with anyone not sharing that opinion.
I thought keeping the TE2 Graber pictures in a category that would itself be part of the TE21 category would have been a good compromise, but if you are definitely sure these pictures have to belong directly to the TE21 category, that's fine by me. You can move them following your idea: you're the guy organizing the Alvis car categories, I'm only the guy who came to spot some Alvises while I had my camera.
Thanks for the bit of Alvis history, seriously. But don't worry, I'm not a photographer, just a classic cars enthusiast who likes to share his passion Clin. Oh, and for the Citroën Picasso, look here and there ! Smile
Cheers, Akela NDE (talk) 23:44, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I can't quite figure out what you two decided on but would like to rename those pictures TE21 (rather than "TE2" which must have been a mistake by the owner). I found a number of similar cars online, all badged TE21 or TF21. Please do tell. Also I saw this amazing four-door TE21 by Graber! mr.choppers (talk)-en- 06:28, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Wow, just found an old Graber-bodied Alvis Convertible, photographed in 2004 with the same BL-9920 license plate as the Graber TE21 coupé spotted by AkelaNDE! mr.choppers (talk)-en- 06:33, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't see any problem with that, I think a vertical stroke like 1 can be hard to see behind glass. Is renaming pictures something the ordinary (like me) can do? I asked for one to be deleted because I'd uploaded it again under a new name at the specific request of the photographer. I think Graber almost always made (makes?) very beautiful cars and they were always beautifully finished how do we get that photo of the four-door car into WP? Same for the lovely convertible but that must belong to a Swiss-resident Scot trying to minimise his Swiss taxes ;-) best regards, Eddaido (talk) 06:42, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Cool, that's how I felt (simply a missed "1"). I think our only chance of seeing the four-door here is if AkelaNDE spots it while carrying a camera. Or if the original photographer can be convinced to go through the convoluted OTRS procedure; I got a Swiss classic car dealer to do so with this Delahaye. To change names one has to become a filemover. mr.choppers (talk)-en- 07:01, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. That's a really neat little Delahaye. Cheers, Eddaido (talk) 07:09, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

File:1955 Imperial Crown Imperial Limousine Interior.jpg[edit]

Commons-emblem-issue.svg File:1955 Imperial Crown Imperial Limousine Interior.jpg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue.
Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

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SamBlob (talk) 15:34, 25 November 2013 (UTC)


Hi, Can you pleas use the talk page? Disagreement ;), Regards --Steinsplitter (talk) 22:26, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 06:36, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism is not appreciated[edit]

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float You have vandalized the content of Wikimedia Commons. Please stop. If you continue making inappropriate edits, as you did to File:MG PA 6 Race, 1300 cm³, Bj. 1936 (2008-06-28 Sp).jpg, you may be blocked from editing Commons. You may test freely in the sandbox.

Denniss (talk) 11:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

No, not vandalism, an attempt to get the description corrected. On what basis has the description been created? Eddaido (talk) 20:30, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
You have been told multiple times where this description came from. --Denniss (talk) 23:33, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Yes that is true. However it does not alter the simple fact that it is incorrect!! Eddaido (talk) 23:35, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
That's just your opinion. --Denniss (talk) 23:43, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
No. I recognise that the uploader must have collected the description from somewhere and took it on board in good faith. Nevertheless the vehicle in the photos is not a PA-type MG though it may incorporate part or parts of one within itself.
My suggestion would be that when someone uses the details on that brass plate to look up production records they will find an accurate description and (here is the problem) those records will describe a car substantially different from the recent assemblage (the "race car") in the photographs.
To leave these images identified incorrectly as they are only helps to bring Wikimedia and Wikipedia into disrepute. Eddaido (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

James Young Bentley[edit]

Since all the photos in this Category are of a James Young Bentley, it should be categorized thusly. This keeps the main James Young category from becoming overpopulated and is the preferred practice. As for the MG above, I will be happy to look into it with unbiased eyes. mr.choppers (talk)-en- 02:45, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Mr Choppers. re Bentleys I see I am going to have to write you my Sock Drawer essay. re MG pictures I cannot see how there can be a dispute, the facts are clear, there is no such thing as that type of MG answering to that description except perhaps one or two made from parts of other cars in the last couple of years. Case closed. As I say I do not see why there is a dispute. Regards, Eddaido (talk) 02:57, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
I can picture why you did this, but I believe that the Commons' style of categorization makes the pictures easier to find. "each image should be placed only in the most specific categories, and those categories should in turn be placed in their most specific categories." As for the MG PA6 Race, the owner seems to either believe that his car is such a beast, or he is out to trick the rest of the world. He calls himself PA6Race on youtube, and I believe that he is also the anonymous IP who uploaded a bunch of nonsense about a PA6 to the German MG PA Wikipedia entry back in 2010. So now I will gently try to make your opponents see this side of the story, we'll see how it goes. It seems to me to be a 1935 PA with a (possibly 1936) N-type six-cylinder engine fitted. mr.choppers (talk)-en- 03:49, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. Sock drawers in the next working week. Eddaido (talk) 04:52, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Category:Bentley 4½-litre 1930[edit]


It is not a good idea to have characters such as ½ in a category name. This one should be renamed. Regards, Yann (talk) 16:48, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

See User_talk:Jean11#Category:Bentley_4.C2.BD-litre_1930 Andy Dingley (talk) 03:04, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks A D and Yann. Have responded on Yann's talk page. Eddaido (talk) 23:46, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Identification request (another one)[edit]

Austin 12 Windsor (ca 1927).jpg
Oldtimer seeks identity the badge.JPG

I don't suppose you have time and information with which to identify this? And please? And, indeed, thank you. The fact that It had a badge should help, but somehow even the badge looks suspiciously not quite like an awful lot of badges. Anyhow, the fuel seems to come from Esso. Best wishes Charles01 (talk)

That looks like Staffordshire grass, maybe Weston Park? Am getting out the Austin Bible and will advise. Have a nice rest of Easter, Eddaido (talk) 22:27, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes indeed. Formerly the Earl of Bradford's home. Then I think his son tried to run it as a restaurant with all manner of bells and whistles. Now it seems to have been taken over by the quangocrats, but there's still a lot of fine parkland. Austin? Hmmm. Well, it usually (often...) is. As you see, I took a day out today so one or two home duties didn't get done. So I did them a huge tomato salad for supper to try and redress the veg deficit that sets in when teenagers do self catering (well yes, I know there are exceptions). Now it's much too late. Sleep. Best Charles01 (talk) 22:44, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes? Heavy Twelve Windsor? c. 1927? And (if on home ground) well suited for the transport of close personal servants, confirmed maiden aunts or Cousin Claire from Jamaica. Otherwise usual transport for country solicitors with a good practice, self-drive on Sundays. Don't know why the logo was changed from time to time except that we do still "update" logos today. Your care and concern will be remembered fondly one day, probably when they're doing the same for your grandchildren. Wish they'd put another good clear label in the windscreen with the licence plate :) but here are some others the same: 1927 and another and a drawing dated 2010 and NZ
almost identical, check with this photographer

Any more 'difficult' ones for me? Best, Eddaido (talk) 02:31, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Brilliant. Thank you. I borrowed a very upmarket camera for yesterday and the pictures it takes do come with more MBs and the attached lens gives usefully less distortion at max/min zoom. But the pocket camera I tend to use is a whole lot quicker, and for the small wiki sized images .... let us just say a little sunshine goes a long way. That and a photo-friendly colo(u)r scheme on the car. Anyhow, I need to set about renaming this one, but I have a few more to upload first. Best. Charles01 (talk) 12:04, 21 April 2014 (UTC).
On the "any more?" there's a Humber that I hope you'll check, but I'm cautiously confident that I know what it is - or will do if I can check the engine size and registration year with the DVLA. Anyhow, I haven't uploaded that one just yet.... That sounds like the bleepers in the kitchen. Time to turn Alex's Bratwurst and maybe put on the risotto (M's left over rice 'n veg from two days ago) for my lunch. I do seem to be unhealthily preoccupied with food.

PS. About old cars. View of part of the local car fleet in my youth, these (Sunday tripper, petrol still rationed) owners are from the more prosperous part of the community . Import controls will ensure serious starvation lasting until 1974.

Humber 16/60. probably[edit]

Humber16-60 1933.JPG

This is the the one about which I did have some doubts. It's clearly a Humber because it has "Humber" written on it. Otherwise I identified it by googling the license plate and finding an auctioneers' summary. It looks quite carefully done as auctioneers' summaries go. Nevertheless, if you have the chance to take a look at the picture I uploaded and correct anything that doesn't quite add up, I would be grateful. Still suffering under a dreadful feverish cold/cough etc...that one of the kids bought home. Hope it goes away soon. The best to you, anyhow. Regards Charles01 (talk) 08:18, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I feel sure you're right though for some reason in mid-depression 1930s Rootes Group switched off big display ads so I can't find certain confirmation. I am trying to accumulate some data in that area to make i.d. easier in future from just DVLA records. Anzac Day here, ever heard a country go silent? I exaggerate but not much. Equinoxial colds are the worst, hard to throw off I think but — best of luck. Eddaido (talk) 06:54, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Humbers on the left need i.d.
So, here's a challenge for you! Eddaido (talk) 02:24, 26 April 2014 (UTC)