User talk:Jameslwoodward/Archive4

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This archive covers the second half of 2011


Deleted Stan Masters images

Hi Jim, Why did you delete the Stan Maters images? They were File:Holekamp Lumber.jpg, File:Once, a King.jpg, File:Grover Texaco.jpg, File:Gas, Oil Tires.jpg, & File:Yard Switcher.jpg. They had been marked with deletions requests, but I got written permission (exactly in the format instructed) for 3.0 Commons permission from the copyright holder. I sent the permission by email to OTRS and marked the images OTRS Pending at both the image and the deletions request page. I thought I did everything right - but you deleted them, so maybe I didn't. It is certainly possible I still made an error as I am relatively new to all this. If deleted in error, can they be un-deleted? Should I re-upload them and email the OTRS permission directly to you? Sorry for the hassles, I appreciate your guidance.... 314editor (talk) 13:58, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

On June 16, you said that you had sent the permission to OTRS, but on June 29, when I deleted the images, the OTRS permission had not cleared the system.
In fact, OTRS had received an e-mail related to these images, ticket #2011061610010141. Since the e-mail referenced images on WP:EN, it is possible that the volunteer did not follow up correctly -- I can't tell why it did not proceed on the ordinary course.
The e-mail is from a man, initials RNM, who asserts that he is the owner of the copyright of the images. However, he gives no reason for that assertion. Since he is apparently an antique dealer, the next question is whether he simply owns the paintings or whether he actually owns the copyright to the paintings. Many people do not understand that ownership of a work of art does not give you ownership of the copyright and that transfer of copyright is a fairly complex process, which is why most copyrights are licensed, not transferred.
I have sent him an e-mail from OTRS asking for more information. When he answers, I can easily undelete the images if warranted. Do not upload the images again.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:33, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

That's great. RNM does not own those paintings - he is the actual copyright owner as he purchased the copyrights from Master's widow. Thanks for taking care of it. 314editor (talk) 14:45, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

If so, he has not registered the transfer -- I find no USCO record for RMN or any applicable one for Stan(ley) Masters.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:56, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Jim, RNM tried to reply to your email with the copyright info, but it got bounced back to him. I tried to forward his email to, but it got bounced back to me. Is there another email address we can try? You could email him with it directly if you wish...314editor (talk) 17:53, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. A glitch perhaps at Commons e-mail server -- I know there have been a variety of server issues over the last several days. You're doing the right things and we'll figure it out, although please be patient -- it may take a day or two.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Jim. RNM and I have both been trying for almost two weeks to send the reply emails to OTRS but they all get bounced back by the Commons server. RNM purchased all the copyrights (not the paintings, the copyrights) from Carlene Masters (Stan's widow) in an agreement written by his attorney titled "Copyright Sale Agreement" signed by both parties on February 7, 2008. He keeps trying to email you and is willing to share a copy of the actual agreement if necesary, but no emails are getting through. Can RNM either call you or email you to another account? 314editor (talk) 14:10, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

This is the return-mail message: This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: 314editor (talk) 14:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry for all the trouble you're having with this. I'm just walking out the door for a couple of days in Mine, so I can't look at the problem now. Why don't you start from scratch and have RNM send an e-mail, with the full license permission, using the words and e-mail address in the box in the middle of Commons:OTRS? Make sure he names all of the images listed above.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:37, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Jim. RNM already did send that email you suggest above. OTRS received and processed the permissions from RNM with the correct wording, but you deleted the images while they were in process. I believe that you had already reviewed the copyright permission email (or trusted the person who did), but you had concerns about whether he was the actual copyright holder and not just the owner of the physical paintings (see above). You had not yet been told that RNM purchased all the copyrights (not the paintings, the copyrights) from Carlene Masters (Stan's widow) in an agreement written by his attorney titled "Copyright Sale Agreement" signed by both parties on February 7, 2008. Maybe you have had enough assurances by now to undue the deletes? 314editor (talk) 15:02, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Jim - did you see this previous post to you above? I figure it got misseed, but I hope I'm not getting blown off!314editor (talk) 15:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done Thanks for your patience.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Redirect left behind after file move

Hi Jim, I have a question about redirects. Being a file mover for some time, I do realise that sometimes admins will delete redirects with meaningless/wrong name, such as File:BSicon STRr+3.svg. Is there any guidelines regarding redirects, or it is up to the admin's view as long as the redirect is not in use? Thank you. --Ben.MQ (talk) 15:55, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

There's been a lot of debate about it -- sorry, I can't remember the link. I think the majority (including me) think that if the file has been present under the old name for more than a very short while (a week, maybe), we leave a redirect in order to maintain links for possible off-Wiki users. The other side believes that this is a waste of resources, albeit a very small amount of resources. So, I'll delete the redirect only if the file is very unlikely to have been used off-Wiki. Note that just because the name is silly or non-descriptive (File:DSC123456) does not mean that there should not be a redirect -- it's the content that counts, not the name.
By the way, although I don't really understand it, I think the BSicons have a very carefully thought out naming system, so the name you mention may have a logic that we don't understand.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:28, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

A man happy to fix a copy machine

Hi Jim! I just found an image that was said to be deleted, but is still haunting us with its ghost. :) Thanks for all you do! Missvain (talk) 03:29, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Looks like I clicked the wrong button. Thanks.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:08, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Because you deleted the crest of the university? File:Brasao 01.png

Because you cleared the crest of the university? Could you help me with copyright? The images can be used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk • contribs) 19:15, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I deleted the file because it is a copyright violation. Whoever created this file has a copyright in this particular drawing of the coat of arms. In order to keep it on Commons, we will need permission from its creator, using the procedure at Commons:OTRS.
I note that User:Thiago Puga has uploaded a new copy of this image as File:Brasao 03.png. I have deleted that file as well. Please note that it is a serious violation of our procedures to upload a file when it has just been deleted. The proper procedure is to first ask the Admin who deleted file, which you have done, and then follow his or her instructions. You may also ask for undeletion at Commons:Undeletion requests, but that will not be necessary if you can get the creator's permission.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Policía Nacional de Panamá - Placa 2010.jpg

Quiciera solicitar la restauracion del archivo, me he ilustrado un poco y se que puede aparecer por ser una insignia oficial del gobierno panameño--AnelGTR (talk) 01:48, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

This looks like a photograph of an official police badge. I think you were the photographer. If that is correct, then the design of the badge is copyrighted by the Panama government and the photograph is a derivative work -- Commons:Trabajos derivados. We cannot keep it on Commons without permission of the Panama government.
Esto parece ser una fotografía de una tarjeta de identificación oficial de la policía. Creo que fueron los fotógrafos. Si eso es correcto, entonces el diseño de la insignia es propiedad de el gobierno de Panamá y la fotografía es una obra derivada - Commons: Trabajos derivados. No podemos seguir Commons sin el permiso del gobierno de Panamá.
translator: Google
If that is not correct, please tell me here. I cannot write Spanish, but Google helps me read it well enough.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:05, 10 July 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for all the suggestions and your work. I will consider all the above for you. Since I had no clear policies and procedures to follow in order to save time, resources and avoid conflicts. Question: I want to create new versions of some existing format flags. Png or. Jpg and convert them to. Svg, how I can do that? --Luisfege (talk) 04:58, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons encourages the creation of svg versions of all suitable files, including flags. It would be very good if you created svg versions of any flags that do not have them. It would also be good, at least on WP:EN, to change existing png or jpg flags to your new svg versions.
That is very different from creating duplicate files in the same format where the only difference was the name -- names can be changed easily by any Admin or FileMover.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:35, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Deletion request question

I have a question about the deletion request for European championships steel thistle.jpg. The file is shown to be in use on the English Wiki, but that article (Steel Thistle Pipes and Drums) is deleted. Why would the Commons image show that it's in use if the article is deleted? (And if its use on the English Wiki was enough to prevent its deletion, could that be reconsidered?) — AJDS talk 03:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The links in Commons files that show use elsewhere in the project often take several days to update after the deletion in the other place. And, yes, it's a reason to reconsider, which I have done.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:48, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Restore of Solothurner Madonna

Hi Jameslwoodward, per IRC request of the user I have restored Solothurner Madonna. It is work in progress, more images are coming in the near future, will be looked like Darmstädter Madonna by Hans Holbein der Jüngere then. Raymond 20:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

OK -- if you want to avoid the problem in the future, please create the page in a User subpage such as User:Raymond/Sandbox1 and copy it to Gallery space when it is ready.
Remember, please, that Commons Admins delete a hundred new gallery pages every day, working very fast, so it's better not to put a new page in place until it is in scope. Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 20:54, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

restore of File:Mode2.JPG File:Type3.JPG File:Type1.JPG File:Mode3.JPG


could you restore previous files. This picture come from [1] which have right : Confirmation OTRS


best regards

Erwan1972 (talk) 17:55, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


I don't understand what you are doing here. You started the DR on File:Mode4.JPG, which I closed as deleted. That led directly to my deleting the other five files, since they all appeared to be copyvios of the same document in your DR of Mode4.
Now you cite an OTRS ticket, which predates all of this, and ask me to undelete four of the six. I've done that. But why just four -- why do you think Mode4 is a copyvio, while the others are not? They all appear in the same document which Schneider has licensed as CC-BY-SA.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:05, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
thanks for the undeleting !
i have done a mistake, i forgottent some file !
i have ask for a deletion but few minute after a suppress this request in file (when i see the otrs right).
best regards
Erwan1972 (talk) 12:57, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I understand. Next time, please keep in mind that removing the {{delete}} from the file has no effect on the deletion request. You must, at the very least, put a note in the DR that you are withdrawing the request and the reason.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:23, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Draco nebula.gif

Hi Jim,

With respect to the Commons:Deletion requests/File:Draco nebula.gif, the issue raised is that the usual NASA PUBLIC DOMAIN copyright may not apply as the original image is from using ROSAT. I sent an email to David Burrows, who is the PI for the project and the lead author for comment. Here is his reply, "Thanks for your inquiry. Our data on the Draco shadow was published in Nature, but the image you are using is an updated version that is in color and has contours of the molecular cloud overlaid, so in my opinion it is not covered by the Nature copyright. (However, I am not a copyright attorney). This figure is also available on Web at one of my pages, as indicated by the link on the HEASARC site. The Nature reference is:

D. N. Burrows & J. A. Mendenhall, "Soft X-ray shadowing by the Draco cloud", Nature, 351, 629 - 631 (20 June 1991).

I think that the attribution you have given for this image in the figure caption is appropriate."

The caption for the image is "The Draco nebula. Credit: Dr. David Burrows and Jeff Mendenhall of the Penn State Department of Astronomy & Astrophysics." On Burrows web page it states, "the Position Sensitive Proportional Counter on the US/German ROSAT satellite", url= There is no copyright at all discussed on Burrows' web site. I also checked the NASA HEASARC sight (url= for other copyright info that may apply and found none.

Inquiries to NASA about such matters are usually met with silence as its copyright is the PUBLIC DOMAIN, so I believe this image has been deleted inappropriately as the NASA copyright (PUBLIC DOMAIN) of the US Federal Government applies. Putting it simply, there is no one to complain that the image is not so covered.

What would you like me to do? Marshallsumter (talk) 21:11, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, perhaps I am being dumb, but I don't understand.
Burrows and Mendenhall are at Penn State, and as far as I can see, are not NASA employees. They are to be credited when the image is used. The image was taken using a German satellite that NASA operates jointly. I don't, therefore, see how it can be a NASA image.
On those facts, Burrows and Mendenhall own the copyright. That is true even if they were working on a NASA grant, as they are not NASA employees.
Certainly you could get OTRS permission from them, but I think that's what it would take to keep it here.
Unless, of course, I am misunderstanding something?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:07, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Dhanush2.jpg

Hi. I am not against policy. MY only point until very much sure that any image that are uploaded violates the rule, then take immediate action and delete. But unfortunately, Vensatry (talk) was suspecting more than a dozen images and nominated all of them for deletion. In regard to that context I mentioned we should not suspect all "Own Work" and simply delete them before thorough and detail background check is done. Once proven, take immediate action. It is very clear here that this image:File:Dhanush2.jpg is taken from net and violated the policy as proven here "". This is the right way to deal things than simply suspect all works and nominate them to delete it.----Ungal Vettu Pillai (talk) 20:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but as I said in the DR, you have our policy and practice backwards. Unless we are reasonably sure that an image is properly licensed, is PD, or is otherwise free of copyright, we will delete it. It is up to the uploader and any others who want to keep the image to prove that it can be kept, not the other way around.
It is perfectly all right to nominate a file for deletion if you are unsure of its status -- we do it all the time to allow the community to bring its collected knowledge and experience to bear on the subject. With that understood, I agree that perhaps Vensatry went a little too far with his nominations, but certainly no where near being wrong in any sense.
And, perhaps you might be a little more careful with accusations -- Vensatry has nominated only six, not "more than a dozen" images for deletion:

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:37, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Stalking by Teams or Groups-DOJ FOIA Documents-Page1of3.jpg, Page2of3.jpeg, and Page3of3.jpg

Jameslwoodward, The three aforementioned files have been deleted. If you could share what went into the final decision, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. Elizabeth Blandra (talk) 01:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

From the DRs:

  • Out of scope: text document Lymantria (talk) 05:36, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
  • Please note COM:SCOPE#Excluded educational content "Excluded educational content includes: (...) Files that contain nothing educational other than raw text." Lymantria (talk) 07:58, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
  • What holds you back from adding the content of these files to Wikisource? Lymantria (talk) 15:06, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
  • Delete per Lymantria - this is not used anywhere and is out of the scope of the project. Ruhrfisch (talk) 18:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:07, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Jameslwoodward, Clearly, this is an arbitrary process and, IMHO, reflects poorly on Wikipedia. Thank you for your careful consideration. Sincerely, Elizabeth Blandra (talk) 12:32, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Our policies have been developed over several years by the community. If you do not like them, you can try to build consensus for changing them, but until then it is the job of Administrators to enforce them.
In this case, you had two Commons Administrators and a WP:EN Administrator who all firmly believed that these pages were out of scope and had no place on Commons. They quoted the relevant policies for your reading. That is hardly arbitrary.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:37, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Kantarelli 1956

Thank you for deleting the file as requested! --Htm (talk) 07:12, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Supriyadi 11.jpg

Ok... than i request courtesy blanking, so that this page no longer active is archived in his history, because : [2] [3]. Lilyu - sad.svg--Lilyu (talk) 16:23, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I checked your contributions, and you don't seems to be active atm. I remove link to my user page, until you are back online and able to decide and answer my previous msg. Sorry, but i prefer. --Lilyu (talk) 16:28, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
You may not remove your name from a DR -- and, anyway, it does no good because it will always be in the history. If User:Jameslibra vandalizes either of our pages again, he will be blocked.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:22, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
[4] Thx, you're really helpfull... Lilyu - sad.svg --Lilyu (talk) 17:50, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

You're responsible. Lilyu - grr.svg--Lilyu (talk) 07:43, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I've indef'd User:Jameslibra today for this mornings vandal spree. --Túrelio (talk) 07:47, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. An earlier reaction would have been more appreciated before it became bigger, courtesy blanking may have stopped it faster before he understood wiki enough to found out how to look in history (still no proof that he's able to do so), and it's so simple to bypass a block...Lilyu (talk) 08:11, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Earlier? I blocked him 12 minutes after he started his vandal spree. --Túrelio (talk) 08:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
As for responsibility, the solution to vandals is not to become vandals ourselves, but to block them, as Túrelio did, very promptly. I don't understand why you think removing your name or mine from the DR would have erased our names from his memory or in any way prevented his further vandalism.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, accuse me of vandalism, my pages and files are blanked, but i'm the vandale. All i asked was an archiving of the DR in its history. He's a beginner, without those links he would probably have not found my pages anymore. Now it's too late. You're the admin, when he first started his disruptive behaviour, you did absolutly nothing before i react, not even a warning on his talk page. Yes, Túrelio did his admin job and reacted promptly. --Lilyu (talk) 14:24, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I still don't understand why you think that removing your signature from the DR would have accomplished anything. Neither of us knew he was a vandal until after he blanked our pages. By that time he knew who we were -- removing your sig would not have erased his memory. As soon as I knew that he had vandalized us, I gave him a warning on his talk page. He was blocked twelve minutes after his next offense.

Perhaps you do not understand that this kind of thing happens fairly frequently and that we have a routine to deal with it. We don't block vandals after the first act -- just warn them. After the second act they will get a block, the length depending on how badly they acted. That's what happened here. You seem to think that I should have acted faster -- well, I'm glad to say that I have a life off line and that I acted as soon as I was on line and saw the problem.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:16, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hamengkubuwono I.jpg

Previously you commented that I was wrong in putting on my request to delete this file on the talk page. Today I corrected my request, please see if I put my request correctly this time. Thanks, Naval Scene (talk) 17:25, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

The DR was mechanically correct, but did not have a valid reason, so I have closed it as Kept.
We do not delete files because they have a bad name or bad description. You can edit the description yourself and request a better name using
{{rename|new name.jpg|reason for new name}}.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:32, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Help requested

Hello James, maybe you can help solving a misunderstanding. The user Jappalang has proposed for deletion several photos about a Russian monument; RfD have FoP (freedom of panorama) ground; I opposed to a couple of them and now I am being accused by him/her to blindly campaign against every deletion based on FoP (see here or another diff), which is not true (If I were opposing FoP I would be opposing ANY RfD based on that; I simply opposed to a couple of proposal because IMHO the monument is a de minimis and pointed out that it was a misuse of FoP policy). Now, the deletion itself is not the point. But I didn't appreciate that - even though vaguely - my good faith is questioned and I am being charged of leading a crusade against anything that have FoP on the ground. I just don't want that RfDs get into personal positions. -- Blackcat (talk) 08:11, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry -- I was away for a couple of days. I agree with Jappalang that the statue cannot be called de minimis in this image. If you cropped out the statue, at the maximum size of the image, the various men in the image are just barely recognizable -- that is, without the statue in the background, the image is useless.
As for his or her reaction to your position -- it is possible that Jappalang is putting your reaction together with others in a way that may be a little unfair to you. We certainly have colleagues who take de minimis positions in cases that I think are ridiculous. Although I have no doubt that this image is a copyvio DW, I don't think your argument is ridiculous -- just wrong. You would, I think, have done better to explain how you thought that a statue taking up half the image was incidental to it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:24, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
No problem. I accept that my ideas and opinions can be questioned. I am here just for that. I don't like that are my intentions to be questioned. I don't like to read that i am "campaigning against deletions with FoP on the ground" (which is not true); further I read someone say "De minimis can't be claimed in good faith in this case". This is not a good way to discuss, I guess... :-) -- Blackcat (talk) 11:29, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
I agree that the language there is not well chosen. I have myself been angered from time to time by words that are accusatory in American English, but that the user thought were neutral. I also understand Jappalang's frustration -- at least one of our colleagues uses de minimis far too often in sculpture and architecture DW cases.
It would have been better to say something like:
"Blackcat is either acting in bad faith or has a very different understanding of de minimis than most of us",
but diplomacy and care in phrasing is not everyone's skill here. Remember, too, that some of our colleagues are young and inexperienced in dealing with others that have very different backgrounds and language skills.
As far as your understanding of de minimis goes, there is no way to decide a de minimis case mechanically -- some of our colleagues will say that it must be no more than 10% or 25% of the image, but I don't think that works. The test I use is to ask,
"Can I blur this out without changing the overall impression one has of the image -- composition, interest, color coordination, and so forth?"
Unless the answer is a solid "Yes", then the work in question is not de minimis.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:05, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for your support. I guess that this derives in part also by the fact we come from different languages. The file might be deleted or not, I just pointed out why IMHO it shouldn't be deleted. I will survive even without :-) Of course the de minimis is not to be calculated on the basis of percentage of picture occupied: but it wasn't me who started telling "The statue occupies the XX percent of the picture thus is not a de minimis", and i simply stated the fallacy of such argument because mathematically was 15 per cent or less, not half; there should be a stronger reason for deleting, i.e. like you said "if the copyrighted object influences very heavily the photo so much that leaving removing it the photo is totally different then is not a de minimis". Maybe there should be a maximum amount of RfD that can be open per month by user, to avoid frustration :-)))) -- Blackcat (talk) 16:54, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
LOL -- I could support such a rule, but of course it would not apply to you, me, or anyone else that you and I appointed. Only to people who do not agree with us in every respect.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 :D -- Blackcat (talk) 17:28, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


Finish this? -- Cecil (talk) 19:46, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done, as Jim seems to be offline. --Túrelio (talk) 07:34, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Thank you.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Brit Mech

Hi Jim ! In fact I am busy working on my FR-Wikipedia "sandy" writing an entry on that toping and collecting pics to create there another gallery. I created the page here to exploit the bits I am using on Wikipedia. But Rome was not built within an hour lol ! Thib Phil (talk) 13:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I understand that, but please remember that we delete more than 100 new galleries a day, many of them looking very much like yours does now. It is very much better to create galleries in a user subpage, as I suggested, rather than have your work deleted -- sure, it can be recovered, but that's a nuisance on both sides.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:26, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, heavy showers here in Brussels for the moment ! So, I will spent the next hour to feed that page lol ! Thib Phil (talk) 13:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


I'll have to take a look at that. mickit 13:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Steve Montador.jpg


I see that and I found some more pictures :

--TaraO (talk) 07:13, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks TaraO. I've opened another DR at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Alex Ovechkin - 1.jpg: --Túrelio (talk) 07:43, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


Then another rule should be added : only reliable workers can open RfDs LOL :-)))) Anyway on only autoverified users can open a RfD (no IP can), and only an autopatroller or sysop can add time to discussion if consensus has not been reached in one week. Btw for RfA: am glad of what you said, but next time I'd better be on RfA page because someone else candidates me ;-) -- Blackcat (talk) 16:45, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

RSAF Roundel (low vis).svg

Thanks for dealing with one of the problematic RSAF roundels. Could you also look into "Commons:Deletion requests/File:RSAF Roundel (low vis).svg"? Thanks. — Cheers, JackLee talk 18:59, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Although it's probably eligible for speedy, it's probably best to let it run its seven days as a DR.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:38, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Sure, no problem. I nominated it at the same time as the other roundel which has already been deleted (wasn't it by you?), so I thought perhaps this one had been overlooked. — Cheers, JackLee talk 08:54, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
Hmmm, there seems to be a problem. You closed the discussion as a "delete", but the image is still there and now has been marked on the talk page as having been kept. — Cheers, JackLee talk 02:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Weird. Of course sometimes that happens because the closing Admin clicks the wrong button while using DelReqHandler, but the {{delete}} tag was still on the image -- DelReqHandler would have removed it if I had clicked on "Keep". Thanks.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:12, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of some of my photographies concerning my article about Étais-la-Sauvin

Hello, because about my few english, I will talk in French that is my mother tongue. Excuse me for the inconvenience.

Je suis stupéfait de découvrir par hasard ce soir que vous avez supprimé dans mon article concernant mon village d'Étais-la-Sauvin certaines de mes photographies dont je suis l'auteur et dont je possède tous les droits. Je veux parler bien sûr de mes photos du chemin de croix de l'église, les fichiers qui se nommaient Chm_croix_Etais. Je souhaiterai qu'on m'explique clairement la raison de cette suppression.

Pardonnez-moi de prendre un ton quelque peu marqué, mais quand je vois le temps que je passe à mettre en place des photos et qu'on vient les supprimer en quelques secondes derrière moi, cela me fait bizarre et n'est pas très encourageant pour contribuer au développement de Wikipédia.

Thanks for your comprehension ans for your explications in French if possible for you. David89 (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by David89 (talk • contribs) 21:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I am amazed stunned to discover by chance tonight that you deleted my article about my hometown of the Were-Sauvin some of my photographs, I am the author of which I own all rights. I refer of course to my photos of the Cross of the church, the files that were called Chm_croix_Etais. I wish we clearly explain the reason for this suppression. Forgive me to sound a bit strong, but when I see the time I spend to develop pictures and we just delete them in a few seconds behind me, I am weird and not very encouraging to contribute to the development of Wikipedia. Thanks for your understanding for years if your explanations in French can for you.
translator: Google and JLW
The works were created by Edgar Delvaux in 1956. Since he obviously died after 1941, he or his heirs still own the copyright in the works and your photographs are derivative works, which would require his permission to be kept on Commons.
: Les travaux ont été créé par Edgar Delvaux en 1956. Depuis qu'il a de toute évidence mort après 1941, lui ou ses héritiers possèdent toujours le droit d'auteur dans les oeuvres et vos photos sont œuvres dérivées, ce qui exigerait sa permission d'être conservés sur Commons.
translator: Google and JLW
reference French Wikipedia article on the church
Commons:Deletion requests/File:Chm croix Etais 02.JPG

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

DR for File:Voyage4dimension1.jpg

Hi Jim, could you please also delete File:Voyage4dimension1.jpg - per the DR on the file page (closed by you). Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 23:57, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done Sorry for missing it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:44, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

disagree with the William Tell delete

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Rossini-William Tell Overture.ogg

The state level restrictions are U.S. state local restrictions that are not strictly copyright. Our project has long looked only at the real copyright restrictions, not other diverse restrictions (e.g. swastikas in Germany). Also, there are a huge class of files in this area and the community needs to make an overall decision, rather than as done in this individual file deletions discussion. TCO (talk) 18:40, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but I disagree. In the United States there are overlapping state and Federal laws in several areas. Copyright is one such area -- the state laws are exactly about copyright. While I obviously agree with the deletion, note that CLindberg, who is our clearest and most knowledgeable editor on US copyright issues, agreed with it.
The fact that there are many such files that might be deleted is not relevant -- there are always files that ought to be deleted.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 19:12, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I didn't see him hit the delete icon. Also, I still disagree with local state resctrictions. If one U.S. state had a restriction would we restrict our overall project (I realize this is more like most, but the principal applies). The rules are for Commons, must be OK in US and in country of origin. What if we were on some Federal land like Guantanamo...then we would not even be in a state. The one state I can buy is Florida since the servers are there. Other than that? It's their lookout. TCO (talk) 22:08, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, differences of opinion are what lawsuits are all about. There is no question that state laws are binding on their citizens and certainly the state copyright laws are binding if applicable. Commons hasn't paid much attention to the subject because generally the Federal copyright laws are more restrictive, but there is no question that, for example, a work first published in New York is subject to New York copyright law. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the states had copyrights on architecture before the Federal law came into effect, but since we have FOP, Commons has never run into that problem. You may certainly start an Undeletion Request.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 02:18, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Deletion based on what laws

You are requested to provide substantiated facts about libyan law for this deletion:

--Bernd.Brincken (talk) 11:40, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

First, the closing Admin is not required to prove that the image is not OK -- it is required that the uploader prove that the image is OK. You have not done so, therefore it was deleted.
According to Commons:Licensing#Libya, Libya has what I would call an "ordinary" copyright law. It specifically includes:
"Works included in the arts of drawing and painting with lines and colours, engraving, sculpture and architecture."
There are three posters that are prominent in the deleted image. All three of them fall within the scope of the sentence quoted above. One of them also has "Photographic and cinematic works", which are also specifically protected.
Of course, everything above depends on translation from the Arabic original. It is possible, albeit very unlikely, that the Libyan law is actually substantially different. But unless you can prove that, there is no basis for keeping this image without permission from the creators of the posters.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:32, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
So you mean to say that it is the uploaders job to provide proof against all speculations that a certain law or jurisidiction might be valid in another country? The deletion request and your action seems rather biased. I don't know why you are so fascinated by FOP or the lack of it, but anyhow then - why are no other pictures that clearly do show "works of architecture" in Libya and would thus violate your non-FOP list (like Category:Tripoli) affected by your action?
If we accept these tactics any picture made in a country whose language is not common among Wikipedia can be removed - based on whatever political, economic or other agenda - by any WP-editor-and-his-admin-friend. --Bernd.Brincken (talk) 13:58, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Hey, guys, give this poor almost monoglot American a break -- at least give me the gist of your discussion ;-) To answer (I think) Bernd.Brincken's question -- yes, the political posters have a copyright -- certainly in the USA and I see nothing in the English translation of the Libyan law that would suggest that they do not. I don't think German law is applicable -- the only countries whose law might touch on the image is Libya, the country of first publication, and the United States, where Commons servers are located. If the first publication was on Commons, then the United States is the applicable law for that.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:09, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
The title of this thread points to Libyan law of course. The idea that German law could apply or that anybody who uploaded pictures would believe that, and that FOP would therefore be a relevant question, is only in your head and some other FOP-fascinated people. Release that weird idea and explain (be it with links to translations) how a political poster is protected in Libya and pictures thereof may not be published. Secondly, would you kindly explain why pictures that do show pieces of art or architecture in Category:Tripoli should be allowed in Commons? --Bernd.Brincken (talk) 18:21, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
My comment about German law came from your raising it in the DR. Of course it has no applicability to this image.
I quoted the applicable translation above, "Works included in the arts of drawing and painting with lines and colours, engraving, sculpture and architecture." As far as I can tell, there is no reason to believe that a political poster is any less the subject of copyright in Libya that anywhere else. It is up to you, as the uploader, to show why political posters are somehow not covered by that rather broad statement of copyrighted works.
The fact that other images should also be deleted is not relevant here -- feel free to nominate them.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:08, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, the fact that no other images that obviously fall under the criteria cited for deleting this one does hint that it is a biased decision, and that is .. at least interesting.
The assumptions about Libyan laws I have commented here:
Commons_talk:Deletion_requests/File:Bengasi_court_tribune_0833.jpg --Bernd.Brincken (talk) 15:06, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

German discussion

@Bernd.Brincken, für uns ist zunächst einmal COM:FOP#Libya maßgeblich. Wenn du begründete Hinweise darauf hast, dass unsere bisherige Rechtsinterpretation falsch ist, kannst du gerne eine Änderung vorschlagen. Auf deinem Foto ist zumindest das Poster in der Mitte der oberen Reihe schutzfähig. Bei der Darstellung links daneben kann ich aus deinem Foto nicht ganz ersehen, ob das ebenfalls ein Poster von jemandem ist der an einem Schreibtisch sitzt oder ob da wirklich jemand an einem Schreibtisch vor einem Poster sitzt. Für die Löschung ist aber ohnehin das zuerst erwähnte Poster ausreichend. --Túrelio (talk) 12:37, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Das Poster ist Teil einer politischen Kampagne, die Regierung in Libyen abzusetzen - sind in Deutschland oder den USA politische Plakate auch "Work of art", die nicht reproduziert werden dürfen?
Wie sieht es mit der Grafik in diesem Bild aus [16] oder diesem [17]?
Am Rande bemerkt, der Mann am Schreibtisch bewegte sich während ich die Aufnahme machte, also vermutlich handelt es sich um kein Foto ;-) Die Begeisterung, in Fotos wiederum abfotografierte Fotos (die dann fremden Rechten unterlägen) auszumachen, ist ja recht bemerkenswert. --Bernd.Brincken (talk) 13:58, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Die Absichten/Zwecke (Kampagne o.ä.) sind für das Copyright völlig belanglos und die beiden von dir verlinkten Fotos sind mit deinem nicht vergleichbar, weil die in ihnen erscheinenden "Plakate" lediglich Text und einfachste Symbole enthalten, die nicht schützbar sind; ganz im Unterschied zu dem "Frauen-Poster" in der Mitte deines Fotos. Falls das Foto auch auf :en verwendet wurde, kannst du versuchen, es dort (lokal) unter Inanspruchnahme von "fair use" hochzuladen. --Túrelio (talk) 13:33, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Hmm, das entsprechende Logo wird aber in der englischen WP unter "fair use" veröffentlicht:
Also dürften die o.g. Bilder in anderen Ländern - und Commons - ebenfalls zu löschen sein. Wenn man den gleichen Maßstab anlegt. --Bernd.Brincken (talk) 15:10, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

@Jim: I have to correct your assumption in the conclusion of the deletion request. After german law anything that can be photographed from a public place (even if behind a window) falls under freedom of panorama. There is only one additional restriction: It must be intended to stay there until it's physical lifetime ends. -- /人 ‿‿ 人\ 苦情処理係 22:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

You are absolutely right -- German FOP covers absolutely everything that is permanent and visible from a public place -- even literature, which gives it the broadest content coverage (but not location) that I know. I knew that, have used it in several situations, and must just have slipped a brain cell last week. My apologies and thank you for the catch.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:49, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of several images

Hi Jim/Jameslwoodward. Sorry I have to bother you, but I want to discuss something. I saw you deleted several images today which I uploaded weeks or in most cases months ago. I don't agree with most deletions. Especially File:Maurice Dumas and Duifje Schuitenvoerder.jpg: the photo was taken in 1913 and múst be in the public domain. Effeietsanders claimed that "the author can likely be found in lower right corner", but he's wrong. First of all, my source was not the news paper, but another site. Therefore I don't know who's the original author and I don't know how to find it either. And there are more which are (in my eyes) falsely deleted. Take for example File:August de Laat.jpg (uploaded after asking advice of another admin - he said it was ok), File:Wedding Gustav Albrecht of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and Margareta Fouché d'Otrante.jpg‎ (I honestly don't know the author and don't know how to find it) or File:Abraham Asscher.jpg‎ (official portrait yes, but I don't know the photographer - btw, I don't like the tone of Beria, who implicitely calls me (as the uploader and a Dutch person) dumb: "No one will believe they don't know who take a official portait. Dutch people is not that dumb."). Could you please explain to me why you deleted the images? Of course it's possible you're right and I'm wrong, but I would like to hear a more expanded answer if you don't mind. (I can learn something about that too in that case.) Thanks in advance. Kind regards, Trijnstel (talk) 18:56, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment: Saibo already explained a lot to me on IRC, but I'm still curious to your answer. Trijnstel (talk) 21:48, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

First, thank you for being polite and careful in your request -- they're not always so. I don't know that I'm right -- I rarely do here on Commons, but I think I made the correct decisions. Keep in mind:

  • It is up to the uploader to prove that the image is OK, not the other way around.
  • The fact that you don't know who the photographer is does not make the creator anonymous for the purpose of most country's copyright laws -- not known by you does not equal anonymous. That has the unfortunate effect that we see many scans where the photographer is unknown, so we cannot keep them. If someone can get his or her hands on the original, we might learn who the photographer was.
  • There is no exact rule for deciding when an image is old enough to assume that the photographer died before 1941, which would make the image PD in most countries, but 1913 is certainly not early enough -- even 1880 could be a 20 year old photographer who lived to be 81 years old.
  • I agree that Beria might have phrased her comment differently -- she should remember that not all of us read English well. I think it was a compliment, though -- in effect saying that the Dutch are both too smart and too careful to not know who took an official portrait. The same thinking applies to the wedding photograph -- it was an important wedding so it is hard to believe that someone doesn't know who took the photos.

Feel free to post an undeletion request at Commons:Undeletion requests, but I don't think you'll succeed. You have three Admins (Beria, Effeietsanders, and me) as well as Saibo, who, while not an Admin, is a very experienced colleague, on the other side of the question. While Admins are not the last word, we all have a pretty good idea of how the community will feel about an issue. If you have further questions, please feel free to ask any of us.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:37, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

A link for the first bullet point: Commons:Project_scope#Evidence (although in Commons' daily practice uploaders get help to show that something is public domain - at last in the deletion requests). Good answers, Jim. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 23:53, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the (really extensive) answer. :-) I understand the whole issue around the public domain a lot better now (thanks to you, Saibo and Effeietsanders). Of course I'm sad the photos were deleted, but I have to agree with you. They weren't in the public domain (yet). I haven't spoken Beria yet, so I don't know her reaction of my comment. Trijnstel (talk) 19:44, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Copyright is everywhere !

I think you're a serial deletor... But are you sure there's not a copyright on your deletions ? The word copyright might be copyrighted... I don't know, but I have deleted all my files, thank you for wiki... historicair (talk) 20:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi historicair, is there any special case you like to have a comment on? I know Jim is doing good work so I guess he did the correct things. You may want to read (at least the first sections of Commons:Licensing. Do you know this page? Or Commons:Image_casebook? Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 20:56, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
this one :

vote is 2 keep / 2 delete, and the argument of deletion is an absolute non sense... But there's no problem now, I clean all files, like this one, for a clean and beautiful wiki : historicair (talk) 21:04, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Deletion requests are discussions - no votes. If Jim does not change his closure you can ask for undeletion at Commons:Demandes de restauration with good arguments. But please do not vandalize other files like you did at File:French_soldier_uniform_WWI.jpg. --Saibo (Δ) 00:50, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
I agree that this is not an obvious case -- I think my decision was correct, so I will not reverse it, but I would be happy to see you make a request at Commons:Undeletion requests, as Saibo suggested.
I will go further than Saibo, however, on the subject of your recent uploads -- if you make any more changes to your existing files, you will be blocked from editing.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, it's not a problem now. I have uploaded about 500 files (svg maps, pics...) here, but these are my last words on Wikipedia, I quit. historicair (talk) 18:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


Please note that this file has been re-uploaded in what seems to be the same inappropriate form. --Crusio (talk) 07:18, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Deleted again, {{dont recreate}} posted on uploader's talk page. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
It should be clear that I obtained copyright permission from Strathclyde University Archives and I pasted the e-mail message giving permission in the discussion pages. In my opinion, you people are making far too much of this copyright business. This is a photograph of a University Principal being used in his Wikipedia biography. Even if the copyright were challengeable, which is not, who in this world is going to challenge the copyright for this in court of law? Please explain yourselves as I don't understand or appreciate this insane and unreasonable behaviour. Ajsinclair (talk) 11:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
I have now introduced the photograph under another name and will insert in the said biography. Please let me know if there are still objections to this act. Ajsinclair (talk) 11:44, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

For the convenience of this discussion, here is an excerpt from the talk page cited above:

Permission to use this portrait has been expressly given by the Archives Section of Strathclyde University Library for the purposes of Sir Graham Hills' wikipedia biography. Here is the e-mail message confirming this permission:
<message header and private information removed>
Dear Dr. Sinclair,
Thank you for your email regarding permission to use an image of Sir Graham Hills (Ref: OP 4/302) in his Wikipedia biography. The University Archivist has considered your request and agreed to grant permission for this image to be reproduced for this purpose. As it is being used for non-commercial purposes there will be no publication charge but we would kindly ask that you please credit Strathclyde University ::Archives for the image.
Kind regards,
Kimberly Sommerville
Archives Assistant
Strathclyde University Archives
<message footer removed>

As touched upon in the subject Deletion Request, this permission fails our needs in three areas:

  1. It is for non-commercial use -- Commons requires permission for commercial use
  2. It is for use "in his Wikipedia biography" -- Commons requires the license to be free for any use
  3. It does not represent that the archives own the copyright -- while they may own a copy of the photograph, ownership of the copyright is a different matter. It will almost always rest with the photographer or his or her heirs.

Your question:

"who in this world is going to challenge the copyright for this in court of law?"

is explicitly rejected by our policy.

I suggest that it might be possible to upload this image to WP:EN with a fair use rationale, but it cannot be kept on Commons without clear permission from the copyright holder following the procedure at Commons:OTRS.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:55, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your detailed reply. The fact is however that this photograph is already thirty years old and no one seems to know who the photographer was. Also, it was obviously given to the Archives by the photographer for their use, otherwise why else would they think that they had the copyright? Also, the law is specifically directed against the use of copyright material for profit. No court of law is going to bother about copyright where there is no money involved. Otherwise, they would be swamped with cases. This is why you are making far too much of this copyright business as regards photographs. It is the law we must respect not overimagined ideas of copyright usage. Ajsinclair (talk) 12:29, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

My apology for the off-subject comment which I have removed. However, even if we assume that the photographer gave the copyright to the University -- an action that would be very unusual -- we still have the fact that the University's permission falls short of Commons requirements in two ways.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Just a final word. In my view, Commons requirements are overstingent and oversensitive to point of making it difficult for contributors bring the most innocuous material into Wikipedia. Surely, the law of copyright should be the guideline and what Wikimedia could now do is clarify the legal position for using copyright material in Wikipedia. If the material is not for profit then there should be little legal impediment to using copyright material provided it is properly acknowledged and referenced. In short, what do the lawyers say? Ajsinclair (talk) 14:06, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

I think you miss an important point -- Commons is a repository for images for all users, commercial and not. All of the off-Commons users of my photographs are commercial and that is typical of other contributors. Businesses and publishers who come to Commons for illustrative images must be satisfied that they can use them without repercussions -- hence our policy.
The current image is a case in point -- the University has licensed it for a single non-commercial use -- a WP:EN article. How would the University react if a publisher made a poster of it and started selling it on the web (a little far-fetched in this case, I admit, but not impossible), or another publisher included it in a new book, a history of Glasgow? Both are commercial uses.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Definitely my last word on this matter! See what I mean about "overimagined ideas of copyright usage"! The fact is that we are not responsible for other people's irresponsible behaviour. The law does not anticipate illegality in the way you are doing otherwise no one would do anything for fear of giving other people the opportunity to break the law. You may be burgled whenever you go out the door! If people use images from Wikimedia for business purposes, it is their responsibility to worry about copyright since they are operating commercially, and it is not for us to worry about it as a non-commercial operation. But I doubt we will never agree about this! Ajsinclair (talk) 14:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

You still miss the point -- Commons is, by design, a repository of images and other media that may be used for commercial use. That is our purpose.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:50, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Home town

Where did you live User:Francodelansburg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Francodelansburg (talk • contribs) 13:42, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

I'd prefer not to say here and now.
Additional note to others who might see this:
are all User:Francodelansburg's uploads, deleted a few minutes ago.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Kenzo 02.jpg

Hi Jim, you closed this deletion request as "Deleted", but did not delete the image. I assume you simply forgot. Would you please delete it? Thanks and regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 08:25, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes I forget, sometimes DelReqHandler hiccups. Thanks.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:16, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Canadian Medical Association Journal first issue.jpg

Could you have a look at this one, please? As far as I can see, it is (was) copyrighted by the Canadian Medical Association, not the Crown. And although it was published in 1911, I'm not sure we can be certain that the creator has been dead for more than 50 years. As there is a logo and not just text, I assume that copyright would apply. Thanks. --Crusio (talk) 08:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

  • PS: the link to the source is dead. --Crusio (talk) 08:56, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
I'd keep it. Given the poor quality of the image, the logo is illegible and therefore de minimis. Given that the Association dates from 1867, it is probably PD-Old as well.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:24, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
  • OK, thanks. --Crusio (talk) 14:58, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of File:Pilates_at_a_Gym.JPG

(Commons:Deletion requests/File:Pilates_at_a_Gym.JPG)

This image was contributed by LocalFitness to wikimedia commons under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License in higher res than available on our site. For permission/licensing regarding photos uploaded, please see the Copyright & Trade Marks section at Can you please undelete this image? — Preceding unsigned comment added by LocalFitness (talk • contribs) 14:02, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

First, please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~) which gives a signature and date stamp.
Second, please do not create a "File:" page without a file -- it just makes it harder to examine the situation.
In order to undelete this image we will need two things:
  1. Permission from using the procedure at Commons:OTRS. While I recognize that your user name is the same as the name of the company, anyone can sign up for any user name, so we ask for an e-mail from the image owner.
  2. A change in the license. While CC-BY-SA-3.0 is fine, your additional requirements as stated on the image are not:
"Permission=Online use: ok to use provided is linked back to. Offline use: the following text must appear under the photo "Photo by:". Attribution Link Requirements - Online usage: A link back to Offline usage: the following text must appear under the photo "Photo by" Required attribution text: Photo by"
All of this has the effect of making the image unfree -- many web sites and print publications collect attributions in one place. Requiring attribution under the image would, for example, eliminate any use on WP:EN, which has attribution only on the image page and not with the thumbnail. In a nutshell, the CC-BY license allows you to require attribution and the words used, it does not allow you to specify location or require a link.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:55, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

From my understanding the image was already previously submitted and approved under the OTRS procedure? But I have resent the permission email. If you need anything further please let me know and I will provide it.

Regarding attribution, the only way to 'attribute' anything on the internet is via a link - that is the whole basis of the internet. So I do not agree that that is an unreasonable attribution requirement and I am confident it is fully compliant with CC-BY-SA-3.0. The attribution link can be no-followed or not it doesn't matter, but whenever credit is given for anything online if it isn't via a link I struggle to see the point? Especially given we are an online-only business, this is the only way we can get credit for the work we contribute.

Re: location and position of the attribution - that is not an issue - this doesn't have to be under the image it can be in another position. Happy to modify those requirements.

Hope that helps explain everything! LocalFitness (talk) 03:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Since we disagree about your license terms, the best thing would be for you to make a request at Commons:Undeletion requests. But before you do so, note again that your terms may, as I believe, violate the spirit of a CC-BY license. They certainly will preclude use of the images on WP:EN and many other places.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:28, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Tony Tan and Mary Tan 2011.jpg

You may want to close the discussion at "Commons:Deletion requests/File:Tony Tan and Mary Tan 2011.jpg" as OTRS verification has been obtained. Thanks. — Cheers, JackLee talk 17:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Several deleted files

Jameslwoodward - Why did you delete all the files, I was working on replacing them with new files, to prevent broken links. Please read all the discussions that I was having on my talk pages. Geek2003 (talk) 23:58, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

This discussion refers to Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by James38
You had twice removed {{delete}} tags in violation of our rules. You were lucky that you were not blocked. I deleted the files because their status was unclear and the status of your replacements was also unclear -- those I looked at also appeared to be copyvios. While our rules require us to Assume Good Faith in ordinary circumstances, once a user starts abusing our rules, we look very carefully at anything he says or does.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:16, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

misinforming bot?

Hi Jim,
when checking the uploads of Hindustanilanguage, I stumbled over this strange discrepancy: DR closed with deletion; DRBot's DR note "keep". --Túrelio (talk) 07:50, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, that would happen if I closed the DR as Kept but did not click either DelReqHandler button on the image. I've also noticed that DelREqHandler hiccups occasionally, usually by not acting on the image.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Uppsala aerial view 1940 Cathedral University old town photo.jpg

Hi Jim! James? Jim James? King James? ;-) Well, I have a question about this DR: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Uppsala aerial view 1940 Cathedral University old town photo.jpg. Is there a reason why you haven't changed (and also the photographer) the license to the one suggested by Pieter? I don't know about this Sweden license, maybe it can be kept then. But as it was when I started the DR and still is right now: I don't think it can be kept. --X-Weinzar (talk) 15:27, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

It was clear to me, Pieter, and you (I think) that the image is PD-Sweden. Therefore I closed the DR as Kept. If you or Pieter thinks that the license should be changed, then by all means change it. It is not up to the closing Admin to make such changes. Please remember that Admins delete about 1,000 images a day, and the backlog is growing. We simply do not have time to do tasks that can be done by others.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:18, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


When a user does something pin-headed, I'm going to call him on it. He had no business nominating those photos for deletion. And your reaction to it displays the same depth of ignorance. The implications of his logic and yours WOULD ERASE EVERY USER-TAKEN PHOTO IN WIKIPEDIA. Or is that your goal anyway? It would be deletionist nirvana! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:04, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Anas querquedula 1921.jpg

At this DR, you missed File:Aythya ferina 1921.jpg. —innotata 16:53, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done, thanks.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:16, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Dacia Logan VAN 1.6 MPI on Kamienna street in Kraków (3).jpg


Can you explain why you deleted this picture? You did not provide any comment about deleting this picture.

Regards. - SuperTank17 (talk) 18:18, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I do not generally comment when the nominator has correctly stated the problem. In this case, the image of the sunflower has a copyright, therefore your photograph is a derivative work, and there is no evidence that a license has been obtained from the creator of the sunflower image.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:25, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
To me it seemed like you completely ignored my response. It was based on a series of deletion requests for pictures of model cars that I uploaded from Picassa. After a long discussion it was agreed that cars as utilitarian objects do not fall into the same category of copyright law as statues for example (you can see the complete debate here). I can understand that my argument may have been invalid in this case but it would be nice to at least here some kind of explanation of why it was considered invalid. Also if those two pictures are considered derivative work then why is this picture considered to be ok? I mean it has the same image of a sunflower visible on it. Does the angle make it somehow ok? Also if I hunted down this car again and did a picture of the rear from a greater distance (from another side of the street for example) would that be acceptable for Wikimedia Commons? And another question if I cut out the image of a sunflower and reuploaded the picture again would that make it ok for Wikimedia Commons?
Regards. - SuperTank17 (talk) 09:07, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
My apologies for the appearance of ignoring you. Please keep in mind that Commons Admins delete about 1,000 images a day -- eight of us do half of those -- and the backlog is currently growing. If I can save a few seconds by not typing a comment when closing a DR, that's a few seconds I can use elsewhere -- among other things, giving very full explanations when a user requests it, as here.
In Commons:Deletion requests/File:Scale model of a police car based on an FSO Warszawa M20-57 or 200 of Milicja Obywatelska.jpg, you will note that I argued at length for deleting the image. I believe that all models have a copyright -- that is certainly supported by case law in the United States. My colleague Jcb disagreed.
File:Dacia Logan VAN 1.6 MPI on Kamienna street in Kraków (2).jpg seems to me a case where de minimis would apply -- the sunflower is almost invisible at that angle and the block of text on the hood (bonnet) is PD-text-logo.
IF you cut out the sunflower, or pixelated it, it would eliminate the DW problem, but would it be in scope? Without the painting, would the image be worth having?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:22, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

A Comment on this DR

I don't know what's the difficulty in this DR as you say? The uploader didn't have an issue with the DR request. I notified him of the DR notice and he made an eye opening response here Seems that not all "mil" sites are US Government automatically, he says. But its your judgment call. Admin High Contrast's indirect comment, I think, was the same--that there was no link to a US Government official web site either. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 00:46, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

  • I haven't a clue what 'mil' is official and what is not but if Admin High Contrast refuses to pass the image then that's good enough for me since he's more experienced here. Thank You, --Leoboudv (talk) 00:51, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I have never seen a .mil page that was not owned by the US DoD or its divisions. The WP:EN page [[}WP:EN page .mil|.mil}WP:EN page .mil]] is very clear on the subject. It is certainly true that .mil sites can have images taken by non-military people and therefore having copyrights, but almost always they are specially tagged. The site itself is clearly official.
I read High Contrast's comment as wanting further research, not, as you say, "refuses to pass the image". He simply suggested that a DR would be a good thing.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:37, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Traditioneller Schwibbogen.jpg

Dies war eine totale Fehlentscheidung. Der Schwibbogen hat kein Copyright. Komm ins Erzgebirge und schau dich um. In fast jedem Fenster ist zur Weihnachtszeit genau ein solcher Schwibbogen zu sehen. Es ist absolut inakzeptabel wenn hier Admins ohne Sachkenntnis herumlöschen. Liesel (talk) 14:02, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

This was a total mistake. The arch is not copyrighted. Come to the Ore Mountains and look around. In almost every window at Christmas time to see exactly such a flying buttress. It is absolutely unacceptable if admins around here without clear knowledge.
translator: Google

Re: Commons:deletion requests/File:Traditioneller Schwibbogen.jpg
Please read my DR closing comment again. The fact that it is a traditional theme does not mean that this specific realization (instance, creation) of the theme does not have a copyright. As I said, Santa Claus is a traditional theme and in the US and elsewhere you will see thousands of them every Christmas season, but all recent ones (after 1923 in the US) have a copyright. The same applies here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:09, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Have you even looked at the other ones in the same category? SEveral of them are exactly the same flat two-dimensional cut-outs. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 14:25, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
If you, or others, would like to nominate more images for deletion, that would be good. But, as you well know, it is not the closing Admin's job to follow up on all the possible related problems.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:30, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
They should not be deleted. Am I that unclear? As for your Christmas comparison, have a look at L Batlin & Son v. Snyder. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 14:47, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

No more work on Commons

Hi everybody there. These recent deletions made me very upset and I will certainly double check if I ever contribute to Wikipedia Commons again. I am sick and tired about all these regulations and requests. And for sure I will not contribute any more to improve articles with any pictures here. Do what you want, but not with me. I am out.--Cruks (talk) 15:56, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Well that would certainly be too bad -- I haven't looked at all your images, but we always hate to lose a contributor.
On the the other hand, I really don't understand your being upset over File:CAPA VEJA 0BAMA.jpg. What did you expect? -- it's a recent cover of a magazine and you have offered no evidence that the magazine has licensed it to Commons for general use. Given your experience with Time-Life and the AP, you must understand that all magazines have a copyright and by now you also must understand that Commons works very hard to respect copyrights.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:56, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
So tell me really why a member of the Editorial department of Editora Abril has sent me the file to my email, knowing at the same time that it will be used on Commons? What do you think? He is surely aware that all contributions on Commons are free to share worldwide. And the picture you had before was one of the end of the 1980's. A shame such an old picture on Wikipedia. I wanted to contribute with a new one, but instead its going to be deleted. Its a laugh.--Cruks (talk) 16:04, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
From that moment on he (Paulo Bianchi) sent me the email with the cover, he agrees on the Copyright terms of Wikipedia. Nothing more and nothing less. What is so difficult to understand about that?--Cruks (talk) 16:09, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
That is your interpretation. We need an explicit statement of a defined free license (of your/his choice), such as shown here: Commons:Email templates#Declaration of consent for all inquiries. You may call this bureaucracy, but we prefer it that way to protect Commons and "our" re-users. --Túrelio (talk) 16:14, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Portrait Many Maurer.jpg

Good catch there, Jim. Seems that I and Leoboudv had missed the fact that this image was not originally made by the owner of the Flickr account. Apparently it has now even been taken down over there because I can't find it any more on Flickr. Regards, De728631 (talk) 17:05, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment: Thanks for catching this Copyvio. I had assumed good faith here--which I mentioned--in flickrpassing the image. Turelio has told me that Google images is more effective at finding stolen images that TinEye (which I have) since it has access to a larger database of photos. I suppose good faith doesn't work well at Commons as at wikipedia with some users sadly. Keep up the good work. Best Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 22:41, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I just got lucky -- I happened to notice the credit on the Flickr page.
As between Tineye and Google, they are both useful. To find an image with Google, you need to know what to search on, so if you have a name or a subject (and it isn't very common), you will be more likely to find problems. On the other hand, TinEye can find an image with no information other than the image itself. So they are complementary approaches to the problem.
I think many, perhaps most, of the problem images are not bad faith, but bad understanding of the rules. While I have run into a few users who told bald faced lies about images, most of the time the claim of "own work" means that the user uploaded it, or scanned it, and does not understand that the author is the creator, not the scanner or whatever. So I am mostly willing to Assume Good Faith, while still keeping a good lookout for bad understanding of the rules.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:52, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Yes. I shouldn't have assumed that everyone exercises bad faith. Some people are just mistaken since many users here think that since they took a picture of a picture or uploaded or scanned a picture, it is 'own work' when it is not. When I was a newbie here, I made a mistake in the first category I cited and someone filed a DR on the photo. That was when I found out what a Derivative image actually was...and I asked eventually asked Admin Kanonkas to delete it before the 7 day long DR process ended. I saved the original photo on my flickr account here licensed under ARR. I managed to contact someone anyway and find a legal replacement below:
  • File:Lisa Brokop by Mark Farrell in 2006.jpg

She was in my 1991 high school grad class in BC, Canada, before she moved to Memphis, USA. This was the only 'own image' by me that was ever deleted. Oh well! Such is life. Best Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 00:20, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment: PS: This image under DR by Turelio is a strong speedy delete candidate by an uploader with only 2 images. But its your call, of course. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 00:26, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your help. Best Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 22:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Strong disagreement

I strongly disagree with your deletion of File:Darth_vader_hot_air_balloon.jpg. Your reasoning is as logical as arguing that the earth is flat and the sky pink. But then of course that was at one time conventional wisdom. Deleting the picture does not delete reality, what is seen by the naked eye in public places and public events. At least you should have extended the courtesy of copyright to the creator of the other balloon. Acting and censoring on suspision is so contrary to an encyclopaedic effort. What a dissapointment. I will not bother to follow with undeletion requests, Kanguroo courts rule here. --Tomascastelazo (talk) 14:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

As I said in the DR, there are many works of art and other copyrighted creations whose images cannot be kept on Commons because the image would infringe their copyrights.
You yourself are a maker of very high quality photographs, so it surprises me that you argue so vehemently that we should simply ignore the copyright of another creative artist.
As for acting on suspicion, our clear policy is that it is up to the uploader to prove that the image is OK. You have made no effort to do that, not even answering any of the objections put forth.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:40, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
I am a very strong defender of intellectual property, but stronger defender of public rights and a fervent opposer of the privatization of public places, spaces. The owners of copyrights cannot reasonably expect the private citizen to abstain from photographing the urban lansdcape just because their image may appear, as prominent or incidental as it may be. Yet, Coca Cola, for example, pollutes the landscape with endless advertisings, what about my right about not wanting to be exposed to such obsenity? Do I have to police myself in the way I do photography? No, out in public, fair game. One thing is the spirit of the law, another is the prostitition of the law. Answering the objections? Didn´t you read them? This is just a pure, unadulterated and simple case of good old fashioned censorship. --Tomascastelazo (talk) 15:04, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
I agree with part of what you say. Certainly it is disappointing that most of the Alexander Calder sculptures we have pictured on Commons are in Germany, because the USA FOP rule allows only architecture as an exception. I would certainly like to see broader FOP in the USA (and France, and other places). That, however, doesn't help this image, because there is no FOP exception in the world (except, possibly, Vietnam) that allows images of copyrighted creations that are temporarily out in public.
Fundamentally what you are asking for is a major revision of the world's copyright rules -- that there be no copyright on anything in public view. Until you get Congress to enact such a revision, yes, you must police yourself when you are taking photographs for commercial use in public.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:28, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I cannot help but I feel compeled to add my 2 Rs. Like Thomas I am not very happy that this image is deleted, as well as many others because of Commons interpretation of copyright laws about FOP. According to Commons current rules, Jim is right that this image has to be deleted. However I think that Commons current rules are completely flawed. Many images which are deleted here would certainly not be viewed as a copyright violation by a court. I have stopped uploading many images to Commons because of that. When do we get our system fixed? Best regards, Yann (talk) 16:51, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
I certainly don't like losing this particular image. My disagreement with Yann's point of view is that we really have very little case law, so we don't know what a court would say -- that's particularly true of architecture -- the only two cases we regularly quote are French and are one each, keep and delete. I therefore disagree that Commons interpretation of the FOP rules is much different the law as we can know it. If there were more cases, then we might do things differently.
I don't believe that a painter or photographer who has his work temporarily shown in public should lose the copyright to it. But, as I suggested above, I think that sculpture that is out in public should be fair game. For me, the divide is between 2D and 3D -- the sculptor and architect make their living by selling 3D things, so that a 2D image of their creations is good advertising and doesn't detract from their revenue stream. The 2D artist, though, can legitimately make money from selling 2D prints and copies of his work, so I would apply tougher FOP rules to them. My favorite rule is the UK -- any 3D work permanently located in public. I might go further and argue FOP for any 3D work, period.
And, again, FOP doesn't apply here, because the balloon is temporary wherever it goes (except maybe Vietnam).
Question, Yann -- as our most senior Admin, have you seen a change in FOP policy and its implementation over the years?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:22, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
This image is one of the few cases where deletion might be justified (not permanent, famous copyrighted character, although even that is subject to debate, see recent UK case about Star Wars [18]). However there are many other cases where deletion is IMO abusive: too restrictive interpretation of de minimis rule, no clear copyright on the object (simple buildings, folklore, toys, etc.). Yann (talk) 17:43, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
I don´t believe that a photographer or painter should lose their copyright if their work is shown im public, but their work, if shown in public as part of the landscape is fair game as far as being part of a public scene. In this case, the picture is that of a public event, where the object in question is shown within a context. If someone is to use the image as a copyright violation, then let the owner hash it out against the offender, why should the community defend a private individual who chooses to display his goods in public? That is the risk he takes! This is the same as blaming the gun manufacturers for the particular violence. This reminds me of the tuna-dolphin controversy: Everyone for the dolphin, but what about the tuna? --Tomascastelazo (talk) 17:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Well Jim, you have your work cut out for you! Just visit the Coca Cola category, plenty of food for deletion there!!!! Check it out!!! [[19]], afterwards, you could continue with Pepsi, McDonald´s, etc., etc. What´s good for the goose is good for the gander! --Tomascastelazo (talk) 18:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
And as a partig shot, think about this airship as the Goodyear blimp! However, it too must go! [[20]] --Tomascastelazo (talk) 18:19, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid that your line of reasoning would leave us without things like the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade -- a lot of balloons of copyrighted characters. While I don't watch it, I know that a lot of kids love it.

The case of the Goodyear blimps is moot -- the whole logo is PD-Old. A fast glance through Category:Coca-Cola_advertisements shows that most of them are either old or PD-text-logo. Although I didn't look at all sixty closely, I doubt that there are many problems there (I did tag one).     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:23, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

It is not my reasoning, I did not delete the file. Here are some other good ones: [[21]], [[22]], [[23]], etc., etc... Or are there other "reasons" not to? --Tomascastelazo (talk) 03:31, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. If the law followed your line of reasoning (if it is in public, copyright doesn't apply), events like the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade would not happen because the owners of the copyrights would not display the characters in public.
I see nothing in Burger King to complain about -- the only possible copyrights which show are de minimis. File:Mcdonalds-90s-logo.svg is PD-text-logo. Category:Mascots, on the other hand, appears to be full of trouble, thank you.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:28, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Viaduc-Millau-Elevation.svg

Hi, You've deleted the drawing of viaduc de Millau, drawing that we can find in all books, the drawing being a schema, such as the schema of others cable stayed bridges ,and not an exact reproduction. The photos had been deleted in 2009. Please explain me why this obsession about the viaduct of Millau. Why all others media about the buildings of the architect Norman Foster (such as 003SFEC LONDON-200705.JPG or Hearstowernyc.JPG) are still on Commons. And it is the same problem with most of the buildings which have been builded in the XX century for which the architect is not dead more than 70 years ago ?Roulex 45 (talk) 05:04, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you read our information on Freedom of Panorama -- basically, architecture and design of things like bridges is copyrighted in almost every country. In some countries, including the United Kingdom and the United States, there is a special exception to the copyright for photographs of buildings. This applies to the two Norman Foster buildings you show above. In others, including France, there is no exception and the designer has exclusive rights to make and publish images of the design, including photographs, paintings, and drawings. Therefore, your drawing infringed on the Virlogeux and Foster copyright.
And yes, there is the same problem with all recent buildings and other creations in countries without FOP -- notably Belgium, France, Greece, Iceland, and Italy.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:43, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


I agree with the rationale of the deletion, but:

  1. The photo was promoted to POTD Aug. 1st last February. It's a pity we had to wait so much to "clarify" its copyright status... :(
  2. Should the same reasoning be applied to File:Leon hot air balloon festival 2010.jpg?
  3. Should the same reasoning be applied to photos of Disney characters? See Commons:Deletion requests/File:Cultural sincretism in mexican toys.jpg and also User talk:Dodo#Reply. (So no, I won't delete any file uploaded by User:Tomascastelazo.)

Regards. --Dodo (talk) 06:44, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

  1. Yes, it is.
  2. Yes. I have put a {{delete}} on it.
  3. Yes, if they are balloons. However, I think Commons:Deletion requests/File:Cultural sincretism in mexican toys.jpg was closed correctly as a keep on the grounds of de minimis.

You might want to look at the discussion above.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:01, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

The Guards


Your most recent DR borders on harrassment. Your opinion cannot be above the general interests of the community. Unless you are a qualified jurist, you should act with caution in these matters.

Your logic is destructive and selective... visit the Walt Dysney characters´ pictures!!! Let´s see if you really are impartial censor.

And with regards to my previous question about who is looking over the guards, the answer is evident. So much wisdom in Juvenal. --Tomascastelazo (talk) 13:59, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I assume you are referring to File:Leon hot air balloon festival 2010.jpg. I do not seek out DR nominations, preferring to spend my time on those things that only an Admin can do. However, as you will see above, I was asked about it by another editor and took what I believe is appropriate action. It was certainly not intended to be harassment -- and in any case, a correct nomination cannot, by definition, be harassment. If I held any particular animus toward you I would go through your whole list of uploads. Given your attitude toward copyright, I would not be surprised if there are more problems.*
* Of course not! You´ve already made up your mind! --Tomascastelazo (talk) 20:56, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
As for those watching the guards, I note that yours is the only voice that believes the Darth Vader deletion was not a correct, albeit unhappy, decision. At least three Admins concur in that assessment. I don't always like it, but I believe I apply the law and Commons policy correctly and fairly in almost all cases. My decisions have been reverted far less than one percent of the time on about 24,000 deletions.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, sure... and I know the answer to Juvenal´s question about who is looking over the guards... more guards. --Tomascastelazo (talk) 16:00, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
And 25,000 users who have made at least one edit in the last thirty days -- any of whom can raise a question at any time.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:02, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
...and 25,000,000 flies... --Tomascastelazo (talk) 17:55, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Tomascastelazo, Jim explained very detailed what the problem was with this file. His decision is definately correct. Accusing him as a "censor" or somebody whose aim is it to harass others is highly inappropriate. For further information in this issue, please read COM:DW and COM:FOP. Thank you. Regards, High Contrast (talk) 08:50, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

High Contrast, jim explained in detail his assumptions, that´s all. And calling him a censor, well, that is what someone who carries out an act of censorship is called. Do you speak english? I ask so that we get our definitions well, coming from Webster: Definition of CENSOR

transitive verb to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable <censor the news>; also : to suppress or delete as objectionable <censor out indecent passages> See censor defined for English-language learners » Examples of CENSOR The station censored her speech before broadcasting it. His report was heavily censored. So, he who carries out the act of censoring is a censor... One is what one does.... --Tomascastelazo (talk) 21:56, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

...and that's the problem: it is no censorship. What you did was to upload a copyright violation. Because Commons is a free media host, we can just accept files that are really free. --High Contrast (talk) 22:02, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I uploaded what someone alleges to be a copyright violation, and that someone is attempting to carry out an act of censorship, whether you like it or not, understand it or not. The meaning of the word is clear. A painter paints, a writer writes, a censor censors. And a painter can paint well or not, same as the writer, same as the censor. Get it? --Tomascastelazo (talk) 21:50, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

This undeletion request

Hello Jim

Here is my explanation--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 15:08, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Why don't you ask Adrignola -- he or she seems to see something there that I don't. It may be as simple as the fact that the Flickr user might have changed the contents of "Oscar 2009 set". The OTRS e-mail is not clear to me whether it is speaking about specific images, or the "Oscar 2009 set" as it was then defined, or what.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:23, 9 August 2011 (UTC)



i sure hope you're right. call me shell shocked, but i don't buy the copyright notice on the statue theory. i think it's copyright notice on the first copy. keep in mind it's not unveiling, but first copy date. here's where the law breaks down, imposing publishing standards on art. (don't know if there's any case law for sculptures in the notice time period). that's why we rely so much on death of artist, since it's clearer. i suppose a bad argument to keep in commons is better than none. Slowking4 (talk) 15:21, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if I'm right or not -- there is little US case law on copyright on sculptures. As I said at the DR's talk page, unless you assume that a sculpture is "published" (as defined by the law) at the time of unveiling, then if the sculptor doesn't authorize any copies, it will have a perpetual copyright as an unpublished work. That is ridiculous and violates Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:32, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Reliefs in Västra Götaland County

Sorry, made a duplicate. You may erase the one not containing images.Dagjoh (talk)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Jamiluddin Aali.jpg

Hello, did you delete the image or transfer it ( Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Jamiluddin_Aali.jpg. Also, please reconsider the precedent of Hadiqa Kiani which I have quoted. Hindustanilanguage (talk) 04:18, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

First, as I said at the DR, I did not delete it, -- I simply closed the DR. I agree, however, that it was a correct deletion.
It is, as you say, a photograph from a TV show. The show has a copyright which the image infringes, so we cannot keep it here without permission from the owners of the copyright of the TV show.
I do not see how File:HadiqaUN-02.jpg is a precedent -- it does not appear to be a screenshot.
If I do not understand something, please explain.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:07, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Can you possibly temporarily restore File:MaltaPost%logo.png that you deleted recently, or email it to me, so I can upload it to the enwiki for a fair-use? The png does not appear to be available on their website. TIA Ww2censor (talk) 16:07, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

  • ✓ Done, temporarily. Forgive me for asking, but you were the nominator of the DR -- what did you expect?     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, copied; you can delete it now. I thought the uploader might have got their act together, but unfortunately I may have scared them off though they were likely only concerned about the one topic. Ww2censor (talk) 15:03, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

OTRS volunteer

Hello Jim

Are you really an OTRS volunteer? Because you are not in the list here. If so please remove OTRS userbox for everyone to notice this. Best regards--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 05:09, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I really am an OTRS volunteer. I went through the process in March of this year. However there is something weird, because, as you have noticed, if you click on the "verify" link in my OTRS userbox, it does not come up. On the other hand, I have full access to the OTRS system. I have just left a note at the OTRS Café (equivalent to Commons:Village pump, but reserved for volunteers only) asking how to fix the problem. Thank you for telling me about this.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:27, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
The problem was that the list of OTRS personnel is updated manually and it is essentially up to each new volunteer to add him or herself. Thanks again for starting me in the right direction here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:41, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:MukhopadhyayBalaichand.jpg

Please take care about rest of user uploads. Thank you. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

As I have said before, I do not believe that your "and other uploads by" DRs are within policy because you don't tag the individual images. If you want to do mass deletes, by all means do them, but don't try to hang a DR on one image and have the closing Admin break the rules by deleting images that have not been tagged.
I have reverted my actions on this DR.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:54, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

... and the reason is???

Could you have the courtesy of an explanation as to why you deleted the image that I uploaded. [[24]] I cannot see anything other than an abuse of power. --Tomascastelazo (talk) 19:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I think my colleagues and I have thoroughly explained the situation to you at great length. I see no reason to spend more time on the matter.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:07, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

The image was a legitimate image that illustrates a social phenomena, like any other social phenomena like prostitution, abortion, human rights, animal rights, etc., etc. --Tomascastelazo (talk) 22:17, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Minorities-in-Macedonia (FYROM)-Vardarska.png

Hi! There is a file renaming request at "File talk:Minorities-in-Macedonia (FYROM)-Vardarska.png" that needs an administrator's attention (click "Edit" to see what the proposed name is). Filemovers can't deal with this case as the file is protected. Thanks. — Cheers, JackLee talk 07:10, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much. — Cheers, JackLee talk 10:54, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Введите меня в тему

Удалены файлы ремонта Пушкинской. Верните мне для локальной загрузки.--AndreyA (talk) 13:24, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Enter me in the topic. Deleted files repair Pushkinskaya. Give me back to the local load.
translator: Google
OK -- please give me a list of the files.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:26, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Protest (but who cares?)

You apologized for your false statement that I had not notified Rama of reporting him to the User problem board. But you continue with baseless accusations of bad behaviour, and you condone Rama's invective against me. Consider this an official protest. But Commons is quite rotten, and nobody will care. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 14:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

First, it was not a false statement -- it was accurate at the moment I looked at his talk page while writing my comment. It turned out to be incorrect because you, at the same time, were adding the note to his talk page.
Second, you did behave badly yourself -- edit wars are not productive, as you well know, and you could just as easily have started the DR to end the edit war. You certainly know that you can start a DR with a comment such as "I think this is silly, but User:Rama keeps putting {{speedy}} tags on this image, so here we are", but instead you just continued the edit war.
You really frustrate me, Pieter. You are a major contributor to Commons -- not just from numbers of edits, but from the depth and breadth of your knowledge and your ability to dig out obscure facts that are useful to a discussion. I value most of your work highly. But -- a big but -- you have an adversarial attitude that won't stop. That gets in the way of your good contributions much of the time and sooner or later is going to get you banned indefinitely. That would be a loss for Commons, but would certainly make life here easier.
This case is a perfect example. Mattbuck and I have both expressed unhappiness with both of you. I strongly supported your assertion that Rama has acted badly. What do I get? -- an "official protest" from you because I had the temerity to suggest that you also acted badly.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:10, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I reverted the tag, but I also tried to discuss (on Rama's talk page, on the talk pages of the images). I then decided that trying to save this image on Commons was hopeless. After that two others reverted Rama, without making further attempts at discussion, yet you choose to single me out for an accusation of bad behaviour. An "adversarial attitude" brings up the threat of an indefinite ban, because it would make life easier for some admins. Commons is pretty rotten indeed. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 16:40, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I think it is, to some extent, part of the same problem. There are certainly days when I shy away from any discussion with you -- or doing anything on an image that you have commented on -- because I just don't have the strength to face a possible bad reaction. I have sympathy for Rama's not wanting to discuss it with you.
You say:
"An "adversarial attitude" brings up the threat of an indefinite ban, because it would make life easier for some admins. Commons is pretty rotten indeed."
What do you expect? I work cooperatively with almost everyone else on Commons. Sometimes I disagree with them, but we don't create trouble for each other -- your Wall of Shame comes to mind. We work out our differences, or ignore them. With over 10,000,000 images on Commons, we can all afford to lose some battles. Being adversarial doesn't get any of us anywhere. We're all volunteers and anything that makes our colleagues less likely to contribute is bad for Commons.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:00, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of File:FIFA_series_logo.jpg

Hi, I have listed File:FIFA_series_logo.jpg for deletion here 8 days ago but since then nobody has commented on it. Could you possibly see the discussion and comment on in or even take action and delete that image if you agree with my reasoning? I personally think my reasoning is logical. Thanks. JuventiniFan (talk) 16:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done See my closure at Commons:Deletion requests/File:FIFA series logo.jpg. Seven days is a minimum that a DR must remain open, but since only a few of us are doing general DR closures at the moment, we have a backlog.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:08, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. After reading your comment and the other one, I have agreed with you that the file should be kept since it is used in other Wikipedias. Also you are right, there is no particular reason to delete it. I didn't realize that. Thanks again. JuventiniFan (talk) 10:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


Hi, thanks for processing the deletion of File:Ertuğrul_Gazi.jpg. I only now noticed that two gallery files, File:Famous Turkish people 3 rows.png and File:Famous Turkish people 4 rows.png, also contain this image. Should I file a separate deletion request for them? Fut.Perf. 16:25, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's I would recommend. Technically I could just blow them away, but they are both in use in more than one place, so we should give people a week to replace the problems. I note that in both cases this is not the only problem image.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:35, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Anna chandy judge.jpg

It's been open for more than a month, can you (or a tps) close the discussion? cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 18:23, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I've passed over it several times because I don't have a useful opinion. I'm reluctant to delete it because it is used all over the web and it's the only photo the world has of her -- at least the only one Google images can find, but policy says I must ignore that. If she is younger than 46 in the image, then it's OK, but that's a close call and I shouldn't keep it based on that. Sorry.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:39, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, it's funny that the two of us who saw the image came up with different ages! I don't mind one way or the other. I came across this image on (from where it was transferred here a couple of days before it got deleted at PUF) as part of a set of images from the Press Information Bureau, India which were marked incorrectly as PD. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 09:19, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
On a different note, now that I've found the source at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Sholay-Main Male Cast.jpg does it make sense to mark it as copyvio and be done with it or should we let the discussion close? cheers SpacemanSpiff (talk) 12:18, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:29, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. Another question, does it make sense to add the source Flickr account to User:FlickreviewR/bad-authors or is it too soon to do that? Do we have some sort of threshold for number of improper licenses we come across etc? I couldn't find an answer at Commons:Questionable Flickr images. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 15:39, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Another place where I don't have a useful opinion -- I mostly deal with cleaning up bad uploads -- others deal with preventing them.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:49, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I'll check on the currently open discussion at AN. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 17:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Coats of arms by Otto Hupp

I mean you made ​​a mistake Jim. Coats of arms are not copyrighted by the author anymore if this was {{PD-Coa-Germany}} (or {{Flag-Germany-b1945}}). -- πϵρήλιο 00:19, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

That's not my reading of Commons:Coats of arms, which seems pretty clear that each representation (drawing) has a copyright, even if the blazon (official description) is old. That follows from the fact that the blazon is what counts and that each representation can differ significantly and creatively while remaining within the requirements of the blazon.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:25, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Coats of arms from Germany are public domain, wether the author still lives or still have died. Please also look at the License-Template {{PD-Coa-Germany}}. This explains itself actually automatically. --ChristianBier (talk) 18:16, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm at a disadvantage here because I don't read German, but clearly {{PD-Coa-Germany}} and Commons:Coats of arms contradict one another. You may well be correct, but we have a bigger problem than just the Otto Hupp images -- we need to change one of those two pages. This is probably better discussed in a wider forum -- why don't you take it to Commons:Undeletion requests?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 18:26, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
@Jim, already some days ago a user on the German-language COM:Forum complained[25] about these deletions. However, the resulting discussion revealed, at least IMO, that it is not 100 percent clear. I've therefore invited a COA-experts from :de to draft a diagram showing which kind of COA from Germany (+eventually Austria and Switzerland) are copyrighted in Germany and which not. To this then our policy will be added and the final step will be a translation into english. --Túrelio (talk) 21:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Thank you, Túrelio. I certainly have no axe to grind here -- just a desire to do what is right in the face of conflicting quasi-policy pages. Please make sure that the German COA expert remembers that the images must also be free under US law -- or we must consider a special tag that notes that they may be free in Germany but not here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:09, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Exactly. It's my intention that it should then be clear which can be hosted on Commons and which only locally on :de. --Túrelio (talk) 12:37, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. If I can help, please ask -- otherwise, I'll back out of the discussion.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 20:35, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:US Army 52500 Reid 3.jpg

With regard to your closure of Commons:Deletion requests/File:US Army 52500 Reid 3.jpg

I visited the rocket museum in Huntsville Alabama, about 25 years ago. While there I took a bus tour of the Redstone Arsenal. I remember how large it was. I remember how the huge test jigs for the Saturn 5 rockets had been allowed to rust. I remember they had preserved the original tiny, primitive test bunker. I remmber how this pond, and this fountain, were at the central crossrods of the base.

The Redstone Arsenal is a historic site, one of the half dozen or less historic sites in the history of the US space program. How many photos would be too many photos of the Redstone Arsenal? It is a large base. Hundreds of photos would not be too many. Maybe thousand of images would not be too many. If I recall my visit accurately, th if this image was taken from the other side of the pond, it would show the administration building in the background. Potentially generally superior images of the pond could be taken. Nevertheless, I suggest this image, as an image from a central location in a historic site, this image would remain in scope. Geo Swan (talk) 01:19, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but I disagree. If you stand on the southern tip of South Beach and point a camera east, you get a photograph of nothing but the Atlantic -- almost certainly out of scope. If you point it west, you get a panorama of Miami, very possibly in scope. Saying that if the subject image had been taken from the other side of the pond it would have been a good image is similar -- location and direction of aim is everything.
This is a personal image of a middle rank military officer out of uniform, sitting near a very ordinary small pond that has a single small water jet in the middle. There is absolutely nothing in it that is notable.
Feel free to take it to Commons:Undeletion requests.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:13, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Status of my Wikimedia Referendum 2011 Vote

Hello. Yesterday I tried to vote in the image filter referendum, a referendum to gather more input into the development and usage of an opt-in personal image hiding feature.
But there was sudden internet disruption after I pressed the "submit vote" button.
Please let me know @ my talk page if my vote has been recorded because I am told that I can vote only once.
Your kind gesture in this regard will help me in contributing constructively to the Wiki Projects, which is also my intention, aim and effort. Regards, Hindustanilanguage (talk) 06:33, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
@Jim, I've replied already to the identical question on my talkpage. --Túrelio (talk) 08:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
& mine on SpacemanSpiff (talk) 09:19, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
I wrote to three people so that even if one person replies, it should work. Good to know that you all really teamed up!! kudos!!! Hindustanilanguage (talk) 09:57, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to my colleagues for dealing with this and for telling me I didn't have to.

For User:Hindustanilanguage, I will say that while asking people that are very roughly a third of the world apart (Germany, India, East Coast USA) almost guarantees a quick response, it potentially makes more work for all of them. If you do such things often you will soon get no answers to questions because we all have more than enough to do here without responding to the same thing three times.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Deletion request closure

Hi, sorry but I do not understand the reasons for your decision when closing Commons:Deletion requests/File:Mercury Rising.jpg. Could you pls explain?. --ELEKHHT 22:24, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, it may be the only one of the series where I did not make a comment. User:StellaMcme uploaded more than twenty files, all of which were problematic in one or more ways.
  • Photographs of sculpture where Netherlands FOP does not apply (either indoors or temporary)
  • Showing Groenewoud/Buij as the author and source of the image and then changing to "Own Work" after the DR was added.
  • Images from the Groenewoud/Buij web site.
  • Record album covers
This case is also a Groenewoud/Buij sculpture. While the image does not appear on the G/B website (the others do), it does appear on several copyrighted websites, including and
It is certainly possible that User:StellaMcme is the photographer of all of these and that she has the permission, where necessary, of G/B, and the other sculptors and creators to put them on Commons with CC-BY-SA licenses. However, given the variety of problems in her uploads, we will need evidence beyond our usual "assume good faith" to keep any of these.
See also
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
I see, thanks. --ELEKHHT 13:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

What to do? What to do?

Dear Mr. Woodward: What if anything can be done about Kuiper's neverending hatred? Please give me some constructive advice! SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:28, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

First, please, it's "Jim" -- "Mr. Woodward" was my grandfather.

Generally, categories have very limited information on their subjects -- one sentence at the most. I think the current version at Category:Emil Eikner is probably appropriate.

While Pieter Kuiper's attitude is often difficult, he does a great deal of good work on Commons. I'm not sure he's wrong here -- I myself wonder if Eikner deserves the attention we have given him. From where I sit, with no knowledge of the particulars, it appears that with 46 images in the category, Eikner is probably over-represented on Commons.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 20:34, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

OK, Jim: Your use of the word "deserves" is very disturbing to me. Are we to judge here what another user "deserves"? As Deputy Chairman of the Southerly Clubs, and without ever requesting or expecting as much as a “thank you”, Emil Eikner has been directly or indirectly responsible for contributing over 1,000 images to the public domain through Commons since 2008, many of them rare and extraordinarily valuable. He has done that because his non-profit organization officially supports all forms of legal free-flow of information and images, not for any other reason.
I work for him intermittently in that regard, since he no longer is willing to work here under his own name or any other user name, having been severely attacked and insulted several times already in 2009.
If 46 images out of over 1,000 happen to show his person, I'm sorry that I fail to find that that is anywhere near any kind of over-representation, and I do not see one single image of the 46 that I would consider inappropriate or totally valueless to Commons.
Shall we remove some anyway, just because Emil Eikner "deserves" to have them deleted? SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry I offended you here, Serge. You came to a neutral party looking for help and I tried to be both clear and neutral:
"From where I sit, with no knowledge of the particulars, it appears that with 46 images in the category, Eikner is probably over-represented on Commons."
That's hardly a statement that we should go out and delete some of them -- just a comment that perhaps he was over-represented and that it was not obvious to me that Pieter was wrong. I was careful to point out that I had no background -- all I could see was that Eikner did not appear to be very notable -- no WP article and few Google hits -- and had 46 images in his personal category.
If you had provided the explanation you just gave of who Eikner was, I would not have made the comment. I think it is unfair of you to jump all over me for making a neutral comment when I had limited information.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:29, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Oops! I thought you knew, that's why I was so flabbergasted. But - come on! - "jumped all over" you is an exaggeration. Kuiper does that (and has been doing to us for years). I don't, or at least I never intend to (like Kuiper always does). Sorry! Sincerely, SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:43, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
All's well that ends with mutual understanding. Perhaps "jumped all over" is a little strong, maybe I over-reacted a tad to "very disturbing" -- but I don't like to be very disturbing to anyone who doesn't truly deserve it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Meerut District population Charts.png

Hello, Jim. The result of the above discussion(regarding a bar chart) was keep, whereas for a pie chart(Commons:Deletion requests/File:Chart (1).png) from the same source was delete. I was wondering if there was a technical/legal difference in the creativity involved in making the two that merited one a copyright violation and another not a copyright violation. If not, shouldn't this be converted to delete too? Or should the other be re-uploaded? Thanks.--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 16:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. I don't know what I was thinking, less than one minute apart -- probably just hit the wrong button. Thank you for asking. I've undeleted File:Chart_(1).png. It could use a better name -- if you give me one, I'll rename it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:38, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Ok, how about Proportion of Meerut district in population of Uttar Pradesh. Or maybe Meerut district population as percentage of Uttar Pradesh population. Could you remove the deletion tag, if we're keeping it? Thanks.--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 09:06, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio - St. John the Baptist (Youth with Ram) - WGA04111.jpg

The renaming of "File:Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio - St. John the Baptist (Youth with Ram) - WGA04111.jpg" requires an administrator's intervention. Hope you can help. Thanks! — Cheers, JackLee talk 17:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Jack, I'm going to turn you down on principle -- no matter what my colleagues think, very long file names are a nuisance and I'm not going to lengthen one that is already too long. There's no reason to give the full name of an artist who is widely known as "Caravaggio"....      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:25, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


Hi Jim! You missed one at Commons:Deletion_requests/File:European_Parliament_Buildings_(2008)-01.jpg. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 23:11, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks -- I thought they were the same file -- the names differ only by a single space.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 02:53, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hematopoiesis pl.png

You said it is in use. Yes, it is in use, but in fact the only place is Talk Page of our Polish Wikiproject Medicine, where author was documenting his steps to making SVG in two languages and asking for correction.

I asked him there:

Wspaniale, dobra robota! q:) Czy myślisz, że w takim razie można PNG wywalić...? ~~ Vinne2 [czyt. "winetu"] ✉! 21:19, 15 sie 2011 (CEST)
(en: Great, good job! Do you think we can delete the PNG...?)

and he said

Chyba tak :) M•Komorniczak -dyskusja- 22:50, 16 sie 2011 (CEST)
(en: Probably yes)

If you're not sure you can use Google Translate.

I didn't delete the file from that Polish page because I didn't know if you decide to really delete it. If I delete that from our page you'll delete the file? Vinne2 (talk) 18:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done see:
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! Vinne2 (talk) 14:34, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Double closure?

Hi Jim. What did you do here? --Leyo 13:29, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. As you must have discovered, DelReqHandler makes it easy to do that if two of us are working down the list at about the same time -- I don't refresh the whole list after every action.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:46, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
OK. Thanks for the explanation. --Leyo 14:17, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Wuhazet case

pl-Commons admins: User:Ludmiła Pilecka (female and also pl-admin, but not so active), User:Masur (also pl-admin), User:Lukasz Lukomski (also pl-admin, but no so active), User:Odder. --Túrelio (talk) 16:13, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks -- see Special:Contributions/Jameslwoodward      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
This time you were faster. --Túrelio (talk) 16:27, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm an old man and a slow runner, but my fingers still fly.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:30, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Well, I too was already 7 years old, when Kennedy spoke at the wall. --Túrelio (talk) 16:34, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
That makes you around 54 -- that's still young -- my wife and I sailed around the world, ending when I was 54.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:38, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
As Beria herself now asked for mercy (her words) and a pl-colleague seems to have to talked to him, you might reduce his block to anything appropriate, after he apologized to Beria (which has to happen on his talkpage, of course). --Túrelio (talk) 16:45, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Wuhazet now has put an apology to Beria on his talkpage. As it is in polish, here is the Google-translation. Though the translated text reads somewhat strange to me, seems acceptable. --Túrelio (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Beria has, after receiving the apology, already unblocked him by herself. Case closed, I think. --Túrelio (talk) 22:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. Thanks.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:52, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


As I see, user:Masur & user:odder (both - Polish speaking) control this problem, so I am not necessary there. Julo (talk) 19:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Categories for Paulino Bernabe (Senior)

Dear Jameslwoodward, Thank you very much for your message and your explanations about categories. I think I understand and will try to avoid over categorization for my next files. Best regards,--Culturawiki (talk) 17:30, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

These seem to be "amtliches Werk" in Germany. So there has never been a copyright by Otto Hupp. --Eingangskontrolle (talk) 18:26, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

@Eingangskontrolle, is this ("official work" property) verifiably true for all of them? --Túrelio (talk) 18:30, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Please see above at User_talk:Jameslwoodward#Commons:Deletion requests/Coats of arms by Otto Hupp where Túrelio agreed to be in charge of determining the copyright status of this type of COA.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


File:The world according to wiki censors.jpg :( --Dodo (talk) 12:41, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

COM:AN/V#Vandalism by user Jameslwoodward

Hi James, apparently no one else has you notified about this just recently opened discussion. Cheers, AFBorchert (talk) 17:39, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Deleted file still exists

Hi there. You said you deleted the file at this deletion request: However, it still exists. Can you please delete it fully? Fry1989 eh? 21:46, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done. Jim is Irene-offline. --Túrelio (talk) 21:48, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! Fry1989 eh? 21:52, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

@Jim, welcome back. --Túrelio (talk) 15:34, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks -- as I said, serious nuisance -- power out for a while -- but we saw only 43 mph steady winds on the boat -- it could have been a lot worse.
Thanks, also, for your help above.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:37, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


Hi Jim, why did you not just modify the original? This makes i18n only harder. Sincerely -- RE rillke questions? 22:02, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand "i18n" -- but to answer your question, I assumed that there were people who liked the long form of {{sign}} and that I might be the only one who preferred the shorter one. Perhaps I've had too much experience with the difficulty of achieving a consensus on such changes here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
i  n  t  e  r  n  a  t  i  o  n  a  l  i  z  a  t  i  o  n

I am surprised. This term is frequently used here on commons. First I wondered, then I wikipediaed. -- RE rillke questions? 22:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I think we can get consensus to shorten the original. It is better if every user can read in his preferred language. -- RE rillke questions? 22:13, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the learning experience -- I've never seen it used before and I've managed i18n and L10n in several companies -- most of the companies I have been involved with have done 60-80% of their business abroad.... You could probably make me feel guilty about the issue if {{sign}} had more languages than just English and German. And I use it only for English speakers.
I have to admit that it is partly just laziness -- there would be no question of a problem if I had User:Jameslwoodward/private templates/Please sign your posts, but it's faster to type {{sign2}}.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:19, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Oh, thanks you good to know. -- RE rillke questions? 22:27, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Let me be clear -- I certainly don't object if you want to just simplify {{sign}}. And, while we're at it, how about {{unsigned}} and {{unsigned2}} -- I see no reason at all for the first.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
I fully agree with you but unfortunately, the first one is heavily used and writing and running a bot to change this is a waste of resources and time. The second one just passes the params to the first one in reverse order. -- RE rillke questions? 22:39, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg I noticed you closed many of the deletion discussions I'd opened. I appreciate you staying on top of this, and preventing the administrative backlog from getting out of control. If there are things I can do when I spot questionable images to make your job easier, please let me know. All the best, Quadell (talk) 12:42, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, but it's easy when the DR is clearly stated -- as yours are.
As for what you can do, I assume that will depend on whether you become a Steward. The easy answer is just keep making good DRs. The harder one is for you to think about becoming an Admin.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:12, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Well, in September there will be a "Move to Commons" drive on the English Wikipedia that I'll be participating in. I'll help ensure that the moves are all legitimate and correctly formatted when they get here. As soon as that drive's over, I suspect I'll apply for admin status again at Commons. All the best, Quadell (talk) 15:04, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Ensuring that the moves are good would be a great help -- there is little more frustrating than having to delete an image that should not have been moved from WP:EN. On the other hand, of course, it is a very good thing for those images that can be moved, are moved.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:06, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Deletion file

Hallo Jameslwoodward, in this deletion there was also File:Esempi Forcole Telescopiche.jpg to deleted for the same reason. Ciao--Triquetra (talk) 15:50, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Deleting a template

Jim, How does one go about getting a Template {{PD-PIB-India}} and the associated pages deleted? The release provided by the Press Information Bureau is limited and doesn't qualify as PD, and this tag is being used on quite a few uploads now. We had this issue up at, but it's now come over to Commons too. Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2011/07#India Press Information Bureau images is a discussion I initiated a few weeks ago. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 10:29, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

After a fast glance at the template and the discussion, I agree with User:Carnildo and you that it is not a free license --
"The material must be reproduced accurately and not used in a derogatory manner or in a misleading context"
precludes both modification and much commercial use.
First, you need to remove it from all the files on which it is used which have an alternative license.
Then I would do a DR of the template and all the files on which it is the only "license" information. That will kill several birds with one stone, as you can't delete the template until it is no longer in use. Make sure that all of the file uploaders are notified.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:37, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have redirected it to nonderivative for now. Better than deleting them so newly uploaded images will be tagged for speedy. --Denniss (talk) 18:03, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Jim, the process is definitely helpful for future reference, and thanks Denniss for taking care of this one. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 18:42, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Closing this DR

Hello again Jim Could you delete and close the DR for File:Takabisha (cropped).jpg because it is a derivative work of File:Takabisha.jpg which was deleted by you nearly 1 month ago. Thank you very much. Best regards--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 11:06, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:39, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Administrator barnstar

Police Barnstar Hires.png
Commons Barnstar Hires.png
The Commons Administrator double barnstar
I hereby award James L. Woodward a.k.a. Jim . . . . this special barnstar for the some contributions as very active and always correct Administrator on Commons. The community can be proud to have You as a member. -- George Chernilevsky talk 18:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Well-deserved, IMO. (Jim, I'll be possibly completely offline for the next 3 days due to business travel.) --Túrelio (talk) 20:13, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much to you both, although I have to take issue with "always correct" -- a quick reading of most of the notes above and my archive will prove just how wrong that is..... Thanks. ;-)
Túrelio, your talk page is on my watch list -- I'll keep an eye on it as you have done mine.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:00, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. --Túrelio (talk) 09:16, 4 September 2011 (UTC)


Hi, I’ve noted – you’ve deleted

several Pd-old files uploaded by me after tag-bombing by Bulcka-UA with very unclear pretext – while sources were clearly indicated. Please advice how to restore it. Thanks--Jo0doe (talk) 17:20, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think they are PD-old because in the Ukraine that would require proof that the actual creator died before 1/1/1951. I suspect however, that there may be other good reasons that they are OK. I would appreciate it if you would briefly explain to me what they are and who wrote them -- not in detail, just in general. That will also help with the question of whether they are out of scope or not.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:54, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your advice -

Thank youJo0doe (talk) 16:26, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. Since I am not knowledgeable on the Ukraine, I strongly suggest that you put them all up on Commons:Undeletion requests. I will speak there as a neutral party -- not opposing undeletion, but, because of my lack of knowledge, not supporting either. I apologize for the extra nuisance, but I do not feel comfortable simply undeleting them.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:48, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Bureaucrat nomination

Hello again, Jim

What do you think if I nominate you for bureaucrat right on Commons. You've done a lot of good work here and you are highly trusted by community. If you agree, please inform me to create the nomination page. I've learned that from the failure in nominating Rillke for admin right. Best regards--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 03:27, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much for thinking of me. Let me think about it for a while. It is not clear that I want to take on additional work while we still have a significant administrator backlog.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:51, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
+support: You could then to work where it is highly necessary. One concern that could arise: I've never seen you around bot-approval. -- RE rillke questions? 10:56, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Ha! I don't know anything about bot approval -- that is, I understand bots and some of the many things they do for us, and that a malfunctioning bot can cause great damage, but how to choose to take this bot and reject that -- judgement call on the apparent skill of the owner, I guess.
More to the point, we have six bureaucrats, all but one of whom have been recently active on Commons, and this is, after all, the biggest vacation week of the year in the Northern Hemisphere. I'm not sure I see a need for another.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:14, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry but you are misunderstanding, I'm not buy your vote. It coincide with my nomination (because I suddenly think of being an admin, LOL). But you are really truthful. So do you agree? I hope that--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 12:49, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Your answer on Turelio´s talk

Hi James and thanks for your offer. What I mean are the last edits from CommonsDelinker here. Tha flag under File:Flag_of_Croatian_Republic_of_Herzeg-Bosnia.svg has wrong colour, and is tagged under CCby-SA unported, which is wrong. Therefore i already removed the same flag once, but now the CommonsDelinker bot is adding it again. In fact, this file should be deleted as unsourced and with wrong licence/copyvio as the source is stating © Zeljko Heimer. All of files he (User:Nanin7) uploaded have the same source and are under copyright. Furthermore the File:Coat of Arms of Zepce.svg is tagged as PD even if the copyright holder is the municipality of Zepce. I warned him already on bswiki but he ignores the warnings. IMO all his flags should be deleted because of copyvio. I don´t want to revert bots edits if this will happen again. But also don´t want the Delinker bot to be blocked on bswiki. Perhaps it´s possible that you or another sysop revert those actions globaly? Thanks once more. --WizardOfOz talk 05:11, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

OK, one at a time -- and please forgive me -- while I understand the rules for flags and Coats of Arms, I do not know the Balkans very well.
  • File:Flag_of_Croatian_Republic_of_Herzeg-Bosnia.svg appears to be identical to the one shown at Flags of the World since 2000. While FOTW has a very few mistakes, I would surprised to know that a wrong flag had been there for eleven years. So, on what authority do you say the colors are wrong?
  • The flag appears to be an SVG created by Nanin7. Commons general rule on flags and Coats of arms is that the blazon (official description) of the flag or COA does not have a copyright, but individual representations do. That comes from the fact that within the constraints of a blazon, two artists may draw very different images -- choosing, for example, fat lions or thin ones, etc. Therefore since this SVG appears to be Nanin7's work, the only copyright is his or hers.
  • The same seems to apply to File:Coat of Arms of Zepce.svg.
So, I do not see a problem -- what is it that I do not understand?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:10, 3 September 2011 (UTC)


Woohoo ! Thanks a lot ! I will look at that later. I knew the existence of this tool but I had never taken some time to look at it in order to know what it was... That seems like a great tool ! --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 16:26, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I started to use Cat-a-lot and indeed it's far better for files. But I didn't understand if we could use this tool to add or move categories of other categories. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 06:22, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand the question -- so ask again if this is not helpful. I should add that although I have used it quite a bit, I am not an expert and you might better ask at MediaWiki talk:Gadget-Cat-a-lot.js.
I think you understand that you can use it to move some of the files in Category:A to Category:B, or all the images of men in Category:Politicians of France to Category:Male Politicians of France. You are correct that you cannot use it to move anything but files -- so that subcats have to be changed one at a time with HotCat. You could not have used it to move Category:Michel Angot and the 184 other male French Politicians from Category:Politicians of France to Category:Male Politicians of France.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:27, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Indeed that's what I meant. It's a pity there's no tool to do that... --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 07:58, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
You might ask User:Lupo or User:DieBuche -- they do wonderful things with scripts. It doesn't hurt to ask.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:52, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Your email

Thank you very much for the advice, I has withdrawn my RfA. I will learn more about copyright issues and DRs, hope you can help me. Best regards--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 04:24, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm always happy to help. Spending time making intelligent comments on DRs and doing research where it is appropriate is good learning for you and helpful to the closing Admins. If you check the "watch this page" box (or enable it in your preferences) and then look back at the DRs that you've worked on when they are closed, you will get a feel for the accuracy of your comments.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:34, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

why delete KrioRus logo????

Why delete the logo of KrioRus? Cryonics Institute and Alcor , both cryonics enterprise also have photos from them. Why KrioRus, one of the 3 cryonics enterprises in the world, can't have the logo and the other 2 can? What is the problem? I really can't understand (talk to me) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredirib (talk • contribs) 14:03, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:KrioRus.png

Fundamentally, this is a copyrighted logo. The source page has an explicit copyright notice on it and there is no evidence that the copyright owner has licensed it for use on Commons. Without such a license, we must delete it. I also note that this image was deleted once and then uploaded again without using the Commons:Undeletion requests process. That is a serious violation of our rules.
There is also the question of whether the company meets Commons guidelines for notability. While it may be, as you say, one of only three Cryogenics companies in the world, it is very small -- less than 5% of the size of others in the field.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:17, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Thoura.svg and Al Thoura.jpg

The user had no ground to demand the images to be deleted. I created them and release to wikipedia under the correct license. The and keep vote was 2/1 meaning I majority was in favor of keeping the image. so please undo the delete. thanks. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:33, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

First, we do not generally keep privately created art on Commons unless the artist is Pablo Picasso or similarly notable. Since you created these, in order for us to keep them, you must show that you are a notable artist.
Second, Antemister had every right to request that they be deleted. Deletion Requests are not demands, and any user may make one. Antemister is a respected user with more than 7,000 global edits
Third, Deletion Requests are not votes, The closing Administrator is required to consider the comments, but should not simply count the two sides:
"The debates are not votes, and the closing admin will apply copyright law and Commons policy to the best of his or her ability in determining whether the file should be deleted or kept. Any expressed consensus will be taken into account so far as possible, but consensus can never trump copyright law nor can it override Commons Policy." (from the ploicy statement at Commons:Deletion requests)
Fourth, in the first case there were two deletes (Antemister and me) and no keeps -- the uploader's comment doesn't count. In the second case, there were the same two for delete and an unsigned keep from a new user.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:57, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
1) I made the image based on a request on wikipedia english for the arab spring article
2) Since, I created the image it has been used by many protesters in the Arab spring
3) I image also has been used in many different articles in the news
4) I am user, not an artist hence I dont have to be notable for my work to be kept
5) even an un-notable artists have some of their work here on common as long as it serves a purpose
PS: I think I have more global edits Antemister -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 15:37, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
I didn't think a reply was necessary. You said nothing that you have not already said before. If you want to proceed, you will need to take this to Commons:Undeletion requests.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:13, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

newname tag on picture i proposed for deletion

File:A_view_of_Lillehammer.jpg I can't add the newname tag because I don't know what the new name would be. Because I have no idea what this picture is showing. --Tokle (talk) 14:04, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

First, I have to ask if you are sure? The image is in use in several places on the web that advertise for Lillehammer and they should know. I know that the city has a large river, but a very little of it shows in this image. It looks to me like it might be a photo taken from the Northwest of the city.

However, in any case, you can add {{Fact disputed}} to it with a comment, and just leave the filename.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I lived in Lillehammer for 19 years, and I don't see anything in this picture that I recognize. It might be a village in the far north of the borough, but that wouldn't qualify it as "a view of Lillehammer".
I reckon if this image is in use anywhere, it's probably been copied off wikipedia... --Tokle (talk) 16:01, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


The image File: Ps_palma.jpg is an image of my own my property, is an image of my hand and I did not authorize more use of it by the Wikemedia Commons! I wish she was betrayed as soon as possible, if this is not possible to enter cabisei measures, therefore, would like a direction to the exclusion of same. Regards Raphael Figueira (talk) 19:29, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Again -- on 8 December 2007 you put the image in the Public Domain. That is irrevocable -- something you cannot take back. Various people, within the WMF projects and outside them, have relied on your action and used the image in many different places. It is not possible to undo that, as none of the users of the image, including Commons, have any obligation to stop using it.
Putting it in different words -- after you put the image into the Public Domain on 8 December 2007, it was no longer your image and you had no rights of any kind to it.
Further action by you in this matter will result in your being blocked from editing on Commons.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

This DR

Hello Jim

Can you have a look at that DR. At first, I think it's image of copyrighted magazine and needs deleting But after reading this, I have changed my mind. Best regards--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 08:04, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

See my comment there. I don't understand this
"But this image still has to be deleted and we only keep the one without magazine on the left"
Unless I;m just being dumb, you might want to clarify it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:45, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
Well, at first, I think that the magazines must be removed from the pictures but after that I realize that they are de minimis so I decided to keep it. But I don't mark it as deleted comment--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 15:36, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

A couple of questions

Jim -- Ag1964‎ (talk · contribs) has uploaded quite a few images as PD-Self, but they are from here. From the user id, it appears he was 12 when he took one of these pictures, but also he may be related to the subject and could have the rights to the images, although he didn't take them. In such cases is it ok to list the correct source in the source section and then tag for permission to be sent to OTRS or should I take it to a deletion discussion. Given that there's a possibility he may be related (but it's as common a last name as something like Jackson) I'm hesitant to nom them as copyvios.

Second question, images such as File:Gents- Toilet -SignboardinHindi.jpg, File:Ladies - Toilet -SignboardinHindi.jpg which are nothing more than a photoshop text box and not actual signboards, IMO don't serve any purpose here. But since this is the first time I'm coming across such stuff I thought I'd check before wasting storage space with a deletion nomination. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 14:02, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

First question -- I'd just ask him on his talk page. Maybe he really did take them. You can't assume that the source is the one you quote -- he might have supplied that page as well -- so I wouldn't show that as the source. Of course, if he doesn't respond in a reasonable time, then you may have to do a DR.
On the second question, I might just DR them, but take a llok at Category:Toilet signs -- there are quite a few in various languages.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:26, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry I didn't explain clearly earlier. Wayback archived this -- I came through the article, the text on the article was copied from that site as the site had it on a lot earlier than us (over six months as that's the oldest snapshot on wayback) and the photogallery was also the same as it is now at that point in time, but your point on him supplying the images is noted, so I'll check on that. On the other category, I did a comparison earlier, every image except for one svg figure appeared to be images of actual signs and the svg figure itself is a usable image for icons etc, that's why my question. And I'm really not sure what purpose a jpeg of a textbox serves. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 17:02, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
I tend to agree with you on the toilet sign, but we have a great many signs that amount to simple text boxes. We both have more important decisions to make, I think.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:16, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Knights ltd logo.png

Hello Jim

Do you think this logo is non-free. Because I see it contains Internet Explorer logo which is copyrighted. By the way, I want to know whether I can be an OTRS member or not. I have asked Cbrown1023 but I think I need someone who is active on Commons to get the advice. Best regards--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 10:19, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I think it does not have a copyright -- too simple. I think you might let the OTRS wait a little while, along with the RfA, for the same reasons -- you're doing generally good work, but need a little more experience.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:02, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:00508007N28.jpg

Hi Jim, only after filing DR Commons:Deletion requests/File:00508007N28.jpg I became aware that you had keep-closed it before. So, feel free to vote against deletion. --Túrelio (talk) 17:39, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

No, I think you're right -- when I kept it I didn't know he claimed that he was not the photographer. Of course we'll never know the truth of that matter, but Precautionary Principle says "Delete".      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:32, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Lugoj question

  • Commons: Lugoj – Album mit Bildern und/oder Videos und Audiodateien

How can i create this link from wiki to commons without you deleting that link again ?!?!? --Gonzosft (talk) 11:55, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Tell me clearly what you are trying to do here and I will be happy to help. I see Category:Lugoj -- is that what you want to link? Or do you want to create a gallery? Or something else?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:02, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

map dispute

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hrvatske opcine u BiH.png

Since when is "own work" considered an appropriate source? that most certainly is not appropriate. It's not sourced! As you see in that long discussion, everyone who put in a meaningful post said to delete it. So we have several votes to delete versus one, the author's not to. Why's it so hard? (LAz17 (talk) 15:31, 12 September 2011 (UTC)).

You are confusing the rules at WP with Commons -- virtually all Commons images have a component that is "own work" -- both, for example in taking the photograph and in writing the description. There is no way to check if most photographs are correctly described. There is no rule at Commons that requires a source for anything.
There is, however, a firm policy that we do not take sides in map disputes. Hence the closing of the discussion.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:31, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
I understand that if someone uploads a photo that the source may be their own. But this is not the case here. What we have here is a case of original research. For this there must always be a source from what I know. Many images are deleted explicitly because there is no source. (LAz17 (talk) 14:46, 13 September 2011 (UTC)).
Ignoring this is not helping. What is worse, you are not allowed to close the deletion request in less than one week. (LAz17 (talk) 20:10, 14 September 2011 (UTC)).
I sometimes have other things to do besides Commons.
First, Admins can certainly close a DR early when it is the third DR on the same subject and no new information is presented.
Second, again, you confuse WP with Commons. On WP you must provide a source for any information presented, but on Commons you do not. We have many drawings and illustrations that are unsourced. We also have maps that are unsourced -- see my own File:Eritrean Railway Map of March, 1998.png. We also have fictional maps and flags.
Our policy on maps is designed to avoid exactly this sort of time wasting discussion. The map has the tag {{Disputed map}}, so smart editors and others will be careful to read the DR before using it. It does not hurt Commons to have a map which you believe is wrong. On the other hand, it does hurt Commons to have at least ten editors have 18,000 words of discussion about one image. That is simply a waste of time and that is why it is our policy not to have such discussions.
Or, being more blunt -- it does not matter whether the map is right or wrong. It is a violation of policy to have repeated discussions of settled matters.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:38, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
I do not believe that it is wrong. The map is wrong, as almost everyone in the discussion has agreed. The guy wants to keep it because he is stubborn. Some 90% of his maps suck.
Your map is based on some legitimate stuff. His map is based on where croats were once present, and he likes to call that a municipality. It disgusts me that original research, an utter stupid fantasy map, is allowed to stay on the commons. Did you even bother to look at what people said regarding the map? Nobody supports such an obscene map.
Answer me this... suppose I make a map of the US which has 67 states. Under what logic should it not be deleted? (LAz17 (talk) 04:15, 18 September 2011 (UTC)).
A good question. The difference is that if you made a 67 state USA map, there would be at least 20,000 Commons editors who would know that it was wrong. We run into similar cases occasionally with engineering drawings that are obviously done by someone who does not understand the process. Such drawings, like your 67 state map, are deleted.
This map, however, does not have 20,000 people who know it is wrong. It has had at least 18,000 words of wasteful discussion, with several respected editors saying that it should be kept. It is not obvious to me or my colleagues who is right here. Just because you are the most persistent voice on the subject does not prove that you are correct.
The point is, once again, that we have more than 10,000,000 images on Commons. We cannot afford the editor time needed to have extended discussions about any one of them. Therefore, our rule is that when in doubt over copyright, we delete. When in doubt over the accuracy of a map, flag, or other drawing, we keep, usually with {{Inaccurate-map-disputed}} or {{Disputed diagram}} added to the description.
I suggest that you consider whether this one image is worth all the effort you have invested in it. I know it can be frustrating to be on the losing side of a DR when you know that you're right -- it happens to me at least once a week. I shrug and move on, feeling strongly that Commons is better off if I spend time on the thousands of other images that need attention rather than getting into a fight over a single one.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:01, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of Сæйраг фарс

Hello! Can you specify Ur suumory for deletion of the page Сæйраг фарс? Ur summary was Russian main page, not a gallery. --Bouron (talk) 18:34, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm happy to. The page appeared to be a copy of the Russian language version of today's Commons main page. Commons galleries -- which is what I deleted -- are for collections of images, and I see no reason to be storing main pages in galleries.
If I misunderstand something about this, please tell me.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 19:16, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
Are U sure that was Russian page? Ossetic language also use cyrillic alphabet.
I was creating Main page for w:Ossetian speaking users using Main page and Заглавная страница as support. But I don't think I have copied and saved Russian page.
It is normal creating internationalized versions of Main page. Here is the template where are a lot of links to internationalized pages.
As for Commons galleries. I don't understand what the galleries you are talking about.
As I remember the deleted page was like all other main pages. For example belarus. Does Belarus version have that problem with Commons galleries?
I would be happy if U restore the page and give me one day for solving all the problems.--Bouron (talk) 19:59, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
My apologies -- my mistake. All Commons pages that do not have a prefix such as "File:", "Commons:", "User:", etc. are galleries. Galleries are used for collections of images on a single subject, see Michelangelo for example. However, I just discovered that they have a special use -- each language version of the Main Page, including the English one, is a gallery. So, I have restored your work and marked it as patrolled, so no one else should bother you. Again, I'm sorry for interrupting your work.
I'm also sorry that I assumed it was Russian -- I am aware that Russian is not the only cyrillic alphabet language, but it looked the same as the Russian page at a glance.
For the future, when you are working on new things, it is often easier to use a User subpage, such as User:Bouron/Sandbox1, which you can easily create. Then when you have the new page ready for public view, you can copy it to the new place.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 20:39, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
Sure. Thank you for restoring and useful advice!--Bouron (talk) 09:34, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Draco nebula.gif

Hi Jim!

Per our earlier discussion on Commons:Deletion requests/File:Draco nebula.gif, your Archive 4, specifically the image "File:Draco nebula." I corresponded (email) with both Dr. David Burrows and now Dr. Jeffrey Mendenhall with respect to this image. Received their okays (emails) to put this image on wikipedia with their full awareness of wikipedia's PUBLIC DOMAIN requirement. Now I see the image has been deleted again. Is there someone that the appropriate emails should be forwarded to. I'll be happy to do that, or with Burrows and Mendenhall's permission I can forward their emails to an OTRS agent.

I noticed on wikipedia they are using "File:Moon in x-rays.gif", url= There they are using this template: Non-free fair use in, followed by

"Images from the X-ray sky taken with the ROSAT telescope. All rights reserved © Max-Planck-Institut für extraterrestrische Physik The X-ray images of MPE are produced by the SASS/EXSAS software MPE, ESO-MIDAS. The ROSAT project is managed by the Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt e.V. (DLR), Germany on behalf of the Bundesministerium für Bildung, Wissenschaft, Forschung und Technologie (BMBF)."

At another ROSAT image is this, "Curator: Michael Arida (SP Sys); HEASARC Guest Observer Facility". Although this may not be helpful, as my own emails on these matters to NASA or Chandra X-ray Observatory, receive silence (NASA) or cryptic messages that fortunately have later been changed by someone (an OTRS agent) and an image is now available, as url=

With respect to the ROSAT images, there seems to be a conflict going on. If I can help, I'll be glad to.

Please advise. Thank you for your kind attention to these matters. Marshallsumter (talk) 20:22, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

The best thing is to have one of the authors send a message to OTRS with a license. You could try forwarding the correspondence you have to OTRS and see if it flies, but many OTRS people have been burned by forwarded messages -- the forwarding person could have simply made it up -- and won't accept them. I know that I wouldn't -- not because I have any reason to distrust you, but just on principle.
Note that use on Commons is potentially much broader than just WP -- we are a source for commercial and non-commercial users all over. The license does not have to be PD -- a CC, CC-BY, or CC-BY-SA is fine (NC is not).
Make sure that any e-mails to OTRS refer to the deleted image(s) by their full name and note that capitalization matters.
We'd much prefer to have the images on Commons if possible. Some of the WPs accept fair use, including, as you note, WP:EN, but many do not.
Thanks for continuing effort here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 20:49, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Deletion Request

Hi Jim, I uploaded this picture 100px. But the Professor wants the picture to be taken off fearing invasion of his privacy. Please do the needful by removing this image at the earliest. Regards, Hindustanilanguage (talk) 09:06, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

We are always against deleting images except for copyright problems. The license is, after all, irrevocable. We worry that while there are no WMF users of this file, it may have been used off-WMF and that user will be left hanging -- that becomes more important as the image has been here a month and a half. I see no invasion of privacy here -- the people are barely recognizable and it is a public event -- Indian law is not a problem. So, just once, I'll do this for you. Don't ask again.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:05, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for the deletion. I hope our friendly cooperation for Wiki Projects will continue. Hindustanilanguage (talk) 06:13, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

(Un)deletion question/request

Wasn't it too rush to procede with this deletion request? As I (partially) check uploaders have not been notified so there was no discussion (correct me if I'm wrong) and the date of death of author is not the only criterion of being in public doman (e.g. check: Template:Polishsymbol, Template:PD-Coa-Germany or Template:PD-AustrianGov).

In this question I'm reffering to Krems Coa.jpg (which should be in Template:PD-AustrianGov, I think), but I guess lot of deleted files upon this request should be/are in public domain.

Thank in avance for reconsideration.

--Magul (talk) 00:04, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on the Undeletion request. -- πϵρήλιο 00:36, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
@Magu -- Commons Admins delete approximately 1,000 files per day. Seven of us do half of that volume, so that we necessarily work fairly fast. The subject DR was a week old and had no comments other than the nomination. That was a strong indication that the DR was non-controversial and probably correct, hence one that I could close routinely.
Of course that kind of indication is wrong, very rarely as it turns out. Of approximately 30,000 deletions in August, about 25 were undeleted.
As for commenting on the Undeletion Request, my original deletion rested on the date of death of the author. The undeletion rests on details of German law which I am not qualified to discuss. Túrelio and I discussed it and agreed that I had nothing to add to it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:15, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, first of all I want to say, that I understand the procedure and I'm aware that You delete lot of images and don't have time (and sometimes knowledge) to deeply considere deletion request.
And You are right that there was no other statement than deletion reqest, but because You procede with deletion and this request goes to archive I have thought, that Your page talk is the first place, when I can ask for undeletion. As I have seen, that somebody else work on it, I will leave this problem (because I believe they will solve this problem optimaly and I don't have any superior knowledge about coat of arms of german cities).
I will just wait for Túrelio's COA-experts from :de.
Ciao --Magul (talk) 09:30, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Actor Vijay on birthday.jpg

Jim, You'd deleted the image a while back based on the discussion. The same image has been transferred from once more. Could you take a look at it? Also, based on that discussion, is there anyway to block this image (and others from the same source) from being transferred again (I'll alert User:Sodabottle to this, he's an admin at and participated in the discussion). cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 06:31, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I deleted the image, based on the DR. As far as I know, while we can theoretically block any given file name from being uploaded, we have no way of seeing automatically that an image has been uploaded before if the name is different. I say "theoretically" on the file name because there is a current bug (in the queue to be fixed) that makes blocking a file name ineffective in most cases. So, we must rely on good eyes, like yours.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:09, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, I searched around and found one more image File:Colonialbrothers.jpg from the same site. In addition to the above DR, the site's been discussed at OTRS noticeboard a couple of times and have been releasing images without ownership -- Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard/Archive_12#File:Sneha Actress.JPG. In such cases would a speedy delete suffice or would a DR be needed? If some general discussion is required at the copyvio board to treat all these uploads as speedy, I can initiate something like that. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 11:29, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done You've shown to my satisfaction that the source site is bad. Whether that will be good for my colleagues who do speedies, I don't know -- I rarely go that way.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:36, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Ok, if there're any more that get transferred I'll open up a discussion like I did for the PIB images and refer that in speedy noms. Hopefully these will get deleted on soon enough before they get moved over again. cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 14:07, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Mrs Ruby Kolhe's Personal Grievances on Wiki Commons

Hi James,

I have great sympathy for Mrs Ruby Kolhe for the trauma she claims to have undergone ( ). But I am surprised to see that she is posting her marriage certificate and all postmarital problems on Wiki Commons. Pls check the following files:

Can we take Wiki Commons as a forum to resolve our personal grievances? Hindustanilanguage (talk) 10:56, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. I could go either way on this. I doubt that the uploader is actually Ruby Kolhe. I couldn't get the link to India Report to open, so I don't understand how notable this incident is, but I think you could argue that the documents are out of scope. You might just tag all of them with {{delete}} and see what others think.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:12, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
You can find my translation of the last mentioned file on the deletion request page. I hope that it will help in making informed judgement of the particular file as well as other files uploaded by Mrs Ruby Kolhe. Regards, Hindustanilanguage (talk) 09:38, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm still suspicious that the uploader is not who the name claims she is. However, I agree with you that they are out of scope. The "personality rights warning" is absurd, as there all appear to be on the public record.
I suggest you consolidate all the DRs into one (use redirects on the others) and carry that forward.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:00, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi Jim, while the issue of deleting / retaining the above five (5) files is contingent on the learned and informed opinion of Commons Editors, I suggest that should a decision be taken to retain this file, the file needs to be renamed RubyLalitKolhe's_Hindu_Marriage_Certificate and not Hindi Marriage Certificate. There is nothing Hindi involved here. Hindustanilanguage (talk) 06:53, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Please use {{rename}} for routine renames. This one has an active DR on it, though, so you might just make that comment at the DR and ask the closing Admin to rename it if it is a keep.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:41, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Legal issue of the uploaded documents: In this uploaded document, Ruby claims that her parents-in-law want to declare her marriage illegal and her husband is supportive of this claim. If this indeed is the case, then should we be showcasing the documents or simply delete them? Hindustanilanguage (talk) 06:50, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
I'd probably delete the whole lot, but I'll leave it to the DR to decide.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:40, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

File:1960 Holiday in Dixie Parade, Mayor Clyde Fant, Jim Bowen driver.jpg

Hello Jim

Do you think this image is missing permission. Best regards--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 09:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but. We don't have any evidence of permission from the photographer's heir. We don't know that the uploader, who we are told is granddaughter of the photographer, actually inherited the copyright. So, you are right, we have no evidence of permission.
But if we assume good faith, then she or one of her siblings or cousins owns the copyright. They've probably never thought about which one of them actually owns it. If we did the "right" thing and asked for an OTRS e-mail, what would it prove? I would be very surprised if her grandmother's will, or her parent's will, mentions intellectual property -- copyright -- in dividing up the estates. An OTRS e-mail would tell us nothing we don't already know. So, I think we must just assume good faith over the whole issue.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:39, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Gallery pages

Hi, James,

I'm a newbie, and probably making a number of mistakes, so I appreciate your attention to the page I started this morning. However, I'm curious about the necessity of the change you made. The two gallery pages I've started both are designed to showcase multiple cycles of art from different artists, sources, times, and locations. You have combined two such cycles into a single grouping.

Again, I'm new here, but I thought that was the approach for a category page rather than a gallery. I would appreciate any clarification you can provide.

Thanks. Michael Hurst (talk) 16:56, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

First, it's "Jim", please -- it confuses a lot of people.
The rules are not terribly well spelled out, and I may interpret them differently from others, but fundamentally Commons galleries are intended to be collections of images, not articles. Our users are here looking for images to be used elsewhere. Therefore text is at a minimum, and organization is limited. Looking at Petrarch's triumphs, I would keep the vertical organization, not set a perrow, and let the sizes default. I would prefer to not use "center", but that that does strange things with the captions. Making those changes allows Firefox to display six images per row for me, saving scrolling.
I'd probably break my own rule and set the first two images at the size you chose, because at the default size their height makes them hard to see.
Remember that our users may be using anything from a mobile phone to dual screens 5,000 pixels wide. Letting the image size default means that it will display at the resolution they have chosen in their Preferences -- or the default if none is set. It will never look the way you see it.
So, yes, by all means separate the cycles, but minimize text. The main difference from categories is the ability to choose the images and put them in the order and sections you choose. Beyond that, let the defaults work, please.
Feel free to ask more if I haven't been clear.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:18, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Jim. I've edited Petrarch's triumphs in keeping with your suggestions. I've left enough text to try to convey the subject and purpose of the gallery page.
I'm just trying to upload enough images to lend some support to a Wikipedia page I'm trying to write, but it's one learning curve on top of another. Any further suggestions would be appreciated.
Speaking of which, while I'm bothering you, let me ask about sources. I'm having some trouble figuring out which online sources I can and cannot use. It would seem that any PD image that can be reached without accepting some license agreement is acceptable for Wikimedia Commons. For instance, I have used British Museum images that are available online, but not the ones which you have to request and which they email to you. Is that okay?
As a specific example, has a great scan (if you click on the "large" icon) of a Standomi image. Is it usable? Thanks again for your help, Jim. Michael Hurst (talk) 17:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
First, again, it's no trouble to be helpful -- partly because I'm here to support Commons and that certainly includes supporting new contributors who will make it a better place -- and partly because supporting you may preclude time-consuming fixes of problems you might create. Most Commons users feel the same way.
Petrarch's triumphs looks good.
Sources are a little more complicated than you put it. For works of art, most of the world (except the USA) is fairly easy -- the author of the work has to be dead a specified period -- usually 70 years. See Commons:Licensing for the country of origin. Commons has adopted the Bridgeman rule for all paintings and similar flat works, so we ignore copyrights claimed by photographers if the painting is out of copyright on the grounds that a photograph of a flat work of art has no originality. This is at variance with both statute and case law in some countries, so many museums will claim a copyright which we ignore. Note that Bridgeman does not apply to sculpture and works other than paintings, etchings, drawings, etc.
If the British Museum e-mailed you an image which fell under Bridgeman and you posted it to Commons, it would be OK with us, but you would probably be in breach of your agreement with the Museum. It is analogous to your taking a photo in a museum where it was forbidden, see Commons:Image_casebook#Museum_and_interior_photography.
As for your example, it looks OK to me, assuming it is as old as it looks.
Two useful pages linked above:
Commons:Licensing -- General rules, country by country
Commons:Image casebook -- Specific information on various cases
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:18, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Deleted images uploaded again

Hi Jim. Since you closed this and this y wanted to tell you that the images were uploaded again here and here. There was a previous deletion request of one of them here, so for one of the images this is the third time the user uploads it. I don't have the best relation with the user, so i prefer not to proceed with yet another deletion request. Thanks you. (and excuse my english).--Zeroth (talk) 06:35, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

  • ✓ Done Deleted both and warned Negromacondo. Your English is fine -- far better than my Spanish. It's fine to bring it here, or you could just put a {{Speedy}} on them and put the DR link as the reason. Anything that has been deleted requires an Undeletion request -- uploading it again is a violation of policy and qualifies for speedy deletion.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:42, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

From the previous page

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hrvatske opcine u BiH.png Hey sorry, didn't reply on time and the thing went to the other page. You said...

A good question. The difference is that if you made a 67 state USA map, there would be at least 20,000 Commons editors who would know that it was wrong. We run into similar cases occasionally with engineering drawings that are obviously done by someone who does not understand the process. Such drawings, like your 67 state map, are deleted.
This map, however, does not have 20,000 people who know it is wrong. It has had at least 18,000 words of wasteful discussion, with several respected editors saying that it should be kept. It is not obvious to me or my colleagues who is right here. Just because you are the most persistent voice on the subject does not prove that you are correct.

The problem is that not one respected editor said that the map ought not be deleted. Who said it should be deleted? Darwin, WizardOfOz, Jafeluv, micki, PANONIAN, and myself. Is that not enough? Not one expert from the area supported keeping this wrong map. Panonian has perhaps made the most maps on wikimedia commons... and he supports deleting this. Everyone who knows a thing or two about this map supports deleting it. If it's not clear why do delete it I listed some 40ish er so reasons why - 40ish mistakes. How does that not make it obvious how wrong the map is??? Hell, it's the same as a map of 67 US states - I showed that these 67 states do not exist. Different country, but almost the same thing ya know. (LAz17 (talk) 14:55, 22 September 2011 (UTC)).

You said:
"The problem is that not one respected editor said that the map ought not be deleted."
You missed both Jcb (an Admin) and Tony Wills (who could be an Admin if he wanted).
But that is beside the point. The reason we have {{Disputed map}} is so that disputed maps do not waste enormous amounts of editor time, which this one has. Our rule is that we don't get into the middle of map disputes. Period. End of story.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:36, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
You're telling me that the views of an uninformed minority are better than those of an informed majority. That bothers me. I know that wikipedia is not a vote, but I think this is not fair. (LAz17 (talk) 06:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)).
It's not about fairness, it's about expediency -- trying to avoid wasting editor time on any one image. We have ten million images here. At least a hundred thousand of them need attention of one sort or another. We, therefore, have rules to avoid wasting editor's time. One of them is that the uploader must prove than an image license is OK -- editors do not need to do research. When in doubt on copyright, delete.
On the other hand, when copyright is not the problem, the rule is keep. It does no harm to keep this image -- it has been marked with {{disputed map}} to warn potential users of your concerns. Please remember that we have no way of knowing who is informed and who is uninformed. Many map disputes have a small number of participants. It proves nothing, among 25,000 active Commons users, to count a vote as six to three and say that the six are informed and the three are not. I have no way of knowing whether you are right or not -- just because you are persistent does not make you right.
So, please drop it and move on. Surely there are more important things for you to do than to fight over one image.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:14, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I do not want to drop it because this thing is extremely controversial, and for good reason is not used on any wikipedia project. I find it very insulting that an uninformed minority keeps something equivalent to a map of 68 US states. (LAz17 (talk) 13:01, 25 September 2011 (UTC)).
You still don't get the point. Commons has no formal way of determining who is the "uninformed minority" -- your side, or the other side. Just because you have been the most persistent does not prove that you are correct.
Our firm policy is to avoid taking sides in such debates for exactly that reason. We let editors at WP and others outside of WMF projects decide which images they want to use and which they do not -- it is not our decision. All we do, as I have done here, is tag the image with {{disputed map}}.
We have both spent far to much time on this one image.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:13, 25 September 2011 (UTC)


Hello James. The author authorized this image by email, according your instructions, can you confirm it? Thank you. Rossi pena (talk) 01:17, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. An OTRS volunteer will verify the e-mail and deal with the DR in due course.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Deletion request

No, no, everything is OK. I understood your intent and I just confirmed it. In fact, I saw the message and decided to help that user quickly about it. That's all. Cheers. mickit 12:22, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

He he he. I'll consider it, but I believe it is far easier to talk when you got a notification about new message every time. That is the primary purpose of these notifications, isnt't it? mickit 13:16, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

this DR

Hello Jim

Could you have a look at it. Thanks. Regards!--Hoangquan hientrang (talk) 09:37, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't see your concern -- as I said there, if LGE or any other large company puts an image on Flickr with CC-BY, then it's safe to assume that they have the right to do so.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:02, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Suvorov medal

Hi, you deleted File:Order of suvorov medal 1st class.jpg, there is a derivated work here => File:Order of suvorov medal 1st class-2.jpg Should be deleted but in the text of the file's commentary, it seems there was a previous file in File:Order of suvorov medal 1st class.jpg before Superzohar did his action. Can you check : restore 1st class.jpg previous version if it's correct and delete 1st class-2.jpg (wrong derivated file for sure). Cordialement - Drongou (talk) 13:50, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done I have deleted the derivative work. I looked at the original (before Superzohar) upload and there is no source indicated. Since we don not know who took the photograph, it must remain deleted, I think.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Louisiana02.jpg

Hi, if your really think a square sheet of metal passes the threshold of originality, please use the 'nominate for deletion' link to create a new proper nomination (if I remember well a discussion in the past, you shared that opinion on how to reopen and how not to reopen a keep-closed nomination) - Jcb (talk) 16:13, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I apologize if I've been inconsistent here -- I just think it is easier for us all to reopen the discussion rather than start a new one.
As for the originality, Serra is a sculptor who has similar works all over the world. His Tilted Arc which is very similar, has a US copyright, Copyright registration VAu000096606 / 1986-04-21, so the US Copyright Office thinks that there is sufficient originality in his work for copyright.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 20:39, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
I must say your additional information makes me doubt a bit. A few reasons why I would strongly prefer to start a new DR:
  • The file description page gets tagged again.
  • The way you re-opened the discussion looks like you revert my closure, while a new DR looks more like a request for a second opinion. This difference might seem trivial, but for me the first way feels more personal, while a new DR feels more directed to the case.
  • The DR gets listed in the today deletion request log. Almost nobody looks at old DRs, while sufficient people comment at newer DRs.
Jcb (talk) 21:03, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the first and third -- both good points. As to the second, I apologize for what might seem an attack. I think my reaction stemmed from my thinking that you did not understand the image. So, in a sense, I was reverting your action, because I thought it was based on your misunderstanding -- in effect, I was giving you a second chance to consider the case, with more information. Thank you for taking that opportunity.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:21, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

File:The Filaments.jpg


I uploaded my own promo picture that i took for The Filaments wikipedia band page and you have deleted it. How do i prove that it is my own work?

Many thanks Kim — Preceding unsigned comment added by Burleyford (talk • contribs) 10:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

The issue was not that we doubted that you took it, but that it appeared to be nothing but a promo picture and was out of scope as [[COM:ADVERT|advertising]. Since the band appears to deserve the WP:EN article which you created, we should probably have a picture here.
With that said, though, this does not look like your own work. It looks like a low resolution scan of an album jacket lifted from the web. If it is in fact your own photograph, I suggest you upload a new, high resolution, version using the same name. Let me know if you do, as otherwise it is likely to be deleted again.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:40, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Le Fumeur de Narguilé.jpg

Hello Jim

I uploaded a photo called Le Fumeur de Narguilé.jpg

  1. I took myself the photo
  2. I am the owner of the picture taken on the photo
  3. it is used for an article Le Fumeur de Narguilé on Wikipedia

So I have the right to take photo and use it, so why did you delete it??

Please restore photo

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 16:40, 27 September 2011 (talk • contribs) Jf68 (UTC)

Even if, as you say, you own the work titled Le Fumeur de Narguilé, it is very unlikely that you own the copyright to the work. Artists very rarely transfer copyright when they sell artistic works. In order to keep the work on Commons, we will need a license from the team, Pierre et Gilles, that created the work. Please have them follow the procedure at Commons:OTRS and note that the e-mail cannot come from an anonymous account -- it must come from an account that is clearly traceable to the artists.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:21, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

When it is sold on public auction, there is no restriction of transfer of copyright. This one is not coming from a conventional transaction but from public auction in Christie's in Paris and has been sold previously in others public auction

I don't think that is correct. It is certainly our practice on COmmons to assume that the copyright is almost always retained by the artist, no matter what the circumstances of the sale. Please cite the applicable statute or other source of your point of view.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Sportsman's Park from Flickr

You had no business deleting those items. But I've come to expect this kind of obtuseness from the folks who run Commons. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:23, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't understand why you think I am obtuse. You yourself said:
"The Flickr user obviously needs to clarify where he got this, i.e. whether it was a photo taken by a since-deceased relative, or if he found it at a garage sale"
which is precisely correct. We do not know where these came from. If their first publication was on Flickr, then they will be under copyright until early in the next century, see File:PD-US table.svg.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:12, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
It's the same mentality that tried to get another user's personal photos zapped a month or two ago. The Flickr user gave his blessing to using those 1946 pictures. And it's not like they're going to win any Pulitzer prizes. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:37, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
I still don't understand why you changed your mind on these.
The issue here is that the Flickr user may or may not have been the photographer -- he implies that he doesn't know who took them and is not sure when -- so he may have had no right to use a CC-BY license.
And, yes, that is a consistent mentality --one the requires Commons to obey the law and not wink at potential problems. Just because the image is not "going to win any Pulitzer prizes" does not mean that we will keep an image with uncertain copyright status.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:50, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
You know very well that the rules in wikimedia have nothing to do with "the law". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:57, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


Hi Jim, I have a question related to the 'rule of the shorter term'. I'm looking at Creator:Lu Xun. He passed away in 1936, but according to the Republic of China's copyright law, his non-photographic work is protected for 50 years p.m.a which adds up to 1986. That is before the URAA date, but 1936+70 would be after the URAA date. Do we still need to tag them with the Not-PD-US-URAA template? And if the work is published before 1923, can we disregard all these and tag with {{PD-1923}}?

Sorry for the tedious statement, thanks in advance !--Ben.MQ (talk) 08:25, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm not the best person to answer this -- for technical legal issues I go to Carl Lindberg. I'll take a try, though.
I don't understand why you want to apply the rules of the Republic of China -- Taiwan. Lu's WP:EN bio shows that he lived on the mainland and died before the current Republic of China was formed. It seems to me that the rules of the People's Republic of China should apply. I think, though, that the question is moot in this particular case, as both call for pma 50.
I don't understand why you ask about 1936+70? Fifty years is the magic number, not seventy. Since he died in 1936, his works were not under copyright in the PRC or Taiwan on January 1, 1996, so URAA does not apply. Or, do you see something I am missing?
The USA 1923 rule applies only to works that were first published in the USA, which, I think, would not have been the case here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
For the USA 1923 template, I saw that piece of information from Commons:Hirtle_chart (under Works First Published Outside the U.S. by Foreign Nationals ...) As for which country to follow, PRC is founded in 1949, and Republic of China was the government of China before 1949, but lost the war to the communist party and fled to taiwan)
Anyway, I think I understand now, thank you so much--Ben.MQ (talk) 03:52, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for introducing me to Hirtle -- I had never seen it before. I generally refer to File:PD-US table.svg, which is much more concise, but doesn't cover as many cases.
I think you missed the warning on the section of the Hirtle chart which applies to works first published outside the USA:
"Works First Published Outside the U.S. by Foreign Nationals or U.S. Citizens Living Abroad. On Commons these cases also need to be free according to copyright terms in the country of publication. These terms are not part of this table."
The PROC/ROC question is interesting. I suspect I know far less about it than you, but I assume that the PROC takes the position that its laws apply to all works published in what is now its territory, not the laws of the ROC. I also guess that a US court would apply PROC law, not ROC law to this case. Maybe you know differently?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:38, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/946693

Hello Jim! I didn't know, how to delete the page without a Deletion Request. -- Kleiner Stampfi (talk) 23:09, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

No problem -- I see you're pretty new here, and the learning curve can be very steep. Let me add my welcome to the machine welcome you have on your talk page -- and if you ever have any questions, don't hesitate to ask here.
In this case, it was a new Gallery page (a page without a prefix such as File:, Commons:, User:, etc.). I don't know how you came across it, but all new Gallery pages created by inexperienced users are patrolled by several Admins who delete 90% of them on sight -- vandalism, mistakes, people writing articles, and so forth. The good ones are marked as patrolled and removed from the list. So it would have been deleted within an hour or two without any action. (They work from a log at )
But, you don't need to depend on that. In a case where a page clearly needs to be deleted -- no discussion necessary -- you can use the tag {{speedy}} rather than {{delete}}. The {{speedy}} tag puts the page into Category:Other speedy deletions, which is also watched by Admins and will get attention promptly. Using {{delete}} invokes the more complicated process we use for pages that need discussion before deletion. By the way, I congratulate you for correctly doing that -- setting up the DR page, adding it to the log, and so forth -- not many beginners get it right.
Commons:Deletion policy will give you a longer and more detailed overview of the two processes.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:27, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello Jim! I work in the German Wikipedia since nearly one year, but just two months as a registered user, but I'm new in WikiCommons. Some things here are different from the German Wikipedia. Thank you for the welcoming words and for the helping links on my discussion page. :-)
Yes, I found the page 946693, when I looked there , beacuse I uploaded a new picture and wanted to see, if it is already in the index. So I saw the vandalism page and wanted to delete it.
I didn't know the tag {{speedy}}. In the German Wikipedia it's a special tag of {{delete}} for speed delete.
"By the way, I congratulate you for correctly doing that -- setting up the DR page, adding it to the log, and so forth -- not many beginners get it right." In Germany we say Thank you for the flowers. (Vielen Dank für die Blumen.), but I didn't do this steps. I just used the tool "Nominate for deletion" from the toolbox on the left side. When you use this tool, Wikimedia does all the steps automatically. I was on the page 946693 and tested this tool there, because I thought, that I couldn't cause some damage, if I would test the tool on this vandalism page ... and it actually worked very well. I read later, how to do this things manually. But now I know, that I should use the speedy-tag in such cases of vandalism.
Thank you for your good explanations and for your help. Sincerely yours -- Kleiner Stampfi (talk) 08:16, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the beer. Most beginners do not have Quick Delete (which includes "Nominate for deletion") turned on, hence my comment -- so, shift the congratulations to your finding the tool in "My Preferences".
As I said, come back anytime if your have questions -- we are all better off answering questions than cleaning up mistakes.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:17, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Suspect files

Hello! I saw your comment here and I was wondering if other maps of the same uploader [26] can be removed for the same reasons (Iaaasi (talk) 07:14, 29 September 2011 (UTC))

I am generally skeptical of "own work" claims when the map includes complex features -- roads, rivers, shaded relief topography, or other hard to draw things. Generally the user will have used a base map from somewhere. While technically you can use PD sources, such as the CIA maps without attribution, we generally require that a creator provide a source for the base map where it appears one was use. So, to answer your question, it would certainly be reasonable to go through this user's maps and create a mass deletion request for all the maps to which my comments apply.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:25, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Done: [27]. I hope I did it in the right way. I would also appreciate if you could express your opinion on the Deletion Request page
Later edit: I found the original map: [28]. He just changed colors to grey, but it is basically the same image. Now it is proven he took a copyrighted map as a background for his maps.(Iaaasi (talk) 16:32, 29 September 2011 (UTC))
Well done, particularly your finding the base map.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
The creator of the maps affirmed that he will re-make the maps in a suitable way. I think the current versions may be deleted right now (Iaaasi (talk) 14:11, 3 October 2011 (UTC))

✓ Done      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 18:05, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for disturbing you again, I just want to inform you that I've found 2 other similar maps:

No trouble -- that's what Admins are here for.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:18, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

A German beer for you!

Export hell seidel steiner.png Thank you for your helping explanations and for your welcoming words :-) Kleiner Stampfi (talk) 08:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Eduardo Mateo disco Mateo solo bien se Lame 2 1972 Argentina.jpg

Did you mean to delete the file? --99of9 (talk) 05:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I deleted it when I closed the DR. The uploader posted an undeletion request and finally produced confirmation that it was not a copyvio (after several requests), so it was undeleted a week later.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Changing signature

Hello Jim

Please help me with changing signature. Thank you very much. Best regards--Quan (talk) 12:03, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I assume you mean your signature -- the way your username appears when you type four tildes -- not your username itself?
If so, what's the question? You appear to have a custom signature now, so what help do you need?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:13, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
I mean I want to customize my signature (color, appearance). But I don't know how--Quan (talk) 13:46, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm a little confused, because it looks like you have done that, at least by showing your nickname -- Quan -- rather than your full username -- but OK -- here's a step by step in English. You click on "My preferences" at the top right of any page. The third section down on the first tab is "Signature". You can enter wiki or HTML markup in the box to get the result you want. If you're not experienced with markup, I suggest you look around at other sigs, find something similar to what you want, and make appropriate changes. As you probably know, the markup for each sig is shown when you edit a page, so it is easy to see everybody's markup. If you have something specific you want to do, I can probably help -- I'm not an HTML expert, but I do write it and have several reference books.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:59, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


You have deleted the book cover The Day I Shot Cupid without explanation, thus the article is now lacking its corresponding book cover. Am I correct in reading that Wikipedia editors will now be removing all book covers from all articles because the standard free-use rationale no longer applies? If so, why? If not, why not? The book cover needs to be re-added to the article. Please advise. J Readings (talk) 21:35, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

You say:
"You have deleted the book cover The Day I Shot Cupid without explanation...".
You must have missed my closing comment:
"Deleted: That is a fine argument for Fair Use on WP:EN or other places where it is permitted. It is not permitted here."
Or, perhaps, I was not clear enough. Fair use has never been permitted on Commons, for the simple reason that the required rationale will very from use to use and fair use can never apply to a repository such as Commons. Fair use is permitted on WP:EN. As far as I know, editors there will not be removing book covers or other fair use images from WP:EN where there is an adequate rationale for such use.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:30, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

File:District of Columbia flag.png

Would you reconsider your deletion of this file? It was a DYKfile on English Wikipedia, and as such isn't eligible for deletion there unless it's on Commons. As such, it's just going to plug up the works sitting on en.wp unless it's undeleted here. Thanks. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:57, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Our policy on Commons is that we do not keep png files that postdate svg files of the same flag. Why not just change the WP:EN link? And, by the way, it probably shouldn't have been DYK there -- png flags are against policy everywhere. Or what don't I understand?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:42, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually that's the thing - it wasn't well attributed on Commons; the file is at w:File:District of Columbia flag.png, and it was originally uploaded in 2005, pre-dating the SVG upload. Magog the Ogre (talk) 16:51, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

The DYK is about New York Avenue and the flag is just an illustration, so why not just change the DYK link to the Commons SVG and then delete the WP:EN PNG? It won't change the DYK in any way -- and, of course, it's now six years old.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 09:49, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Please use {{subst:dont recreate}}

and not {{dont recreate}} [29]. This will prevent our templates from being accidentally edited. Thank you. -- RE rillke questions? 09:35, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I have wondered whether I should be using subst, but I don't understand the reason you give -- please explain. Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 09:40, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
It is important to use subst: when using autotranslated templates with heading because when not using subst, the "edit"-section button will point to the template instead of the talk-page-section. Newcomers often edit the template accidentally.
How this works /Why so complicated:
When substituting, the heading is on the talk-page: == {{autotranslate|base=xyz/heading}} ==.
When not subst:ing, it looks like {{xyz}} and the heading is included from the template-page. Therefore the edit-button of the section points to the template.
Let me know if you couldn't follow my remarks. All the stuff on Commons is a bit more tricky than on WP due to multilingualism. It was hard learning for me, too. But creating new templates helped me understanding the structure. Thank you. -- RE rillke questions? 12:08, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
This can be fixed using code to determine the current namespace. Or perhaps {{BASEPAGENAME}}. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:44, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Magog the Ogre, I meant the link which is used to edit sections. I fear I don't understand what you mean. Is there a possibility to change the edit-section-link? Could you show an example? -- RE rillke questions? 17:14, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

OK -- I understand that. But aren't most frequently used templates protected for edit only by Admins? Or should be? I'm only pushing back because it seems that maybe we need two classes of templates:

  • one, that automatically substitutes itself, and once placed on a page will never change -- as you suggest here
  • a second, for use where the information in the template is subject to change and you want every use of the template to change if the base template does.

I say this because it seems kludgey (American slang for "is a significant nuisance and sort of messy") to have to type the extra six characters every time you use {{dont recreate}}.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:54, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

First of all, our autotranslated templates can both: being substituted and change when there is a new language available, the wording of a language changed, a new param is introduced or a new layout is set up.
But I have to admit, it is not very intuitive. One has to look up each template's documentation and then type 6 chars more. If you have a concrete suggestion how to make it easier, let me know.
Some time ago, I re-wrote a user messages script. But this covers only a few of the thousands of templates. -- RE rillke questions? 10:50, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
I've fixed it: [30]. I don't know why it no longer transcludes (nor why it did in the first place), but it works. Check it out; no longer present: User talk: Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:19, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Very good. Nevertheless it should still be substituted to provide an edit-section-link to users. -- RE rillke questions? 10:50, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


Commons:Deletion requests/File:Scott Weinrich - Wino.jpg

Hi, I have taken this photo personally. I had removed the metadata, because this concert being in a little record store, I did not want to be RL identified. As a normal commons user I do not remove the metadata, so it would have been easy to combine my RL identity with my Wikimedia user account. If the mentioned other websites did not mention, that they have taken the picture from Commons it is not my fault. So please restore. Thanks. Söckelchen (talk) 14:10, 3 October 2011 (UTC) p.s. I had a look in my photo archive, and have to ask you, did you check, that there was no metadata? Because in the uploaded version you will find the date of the picture and the name Söckelchen in the IPTC data. Söckelchen (talk) 14:34, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, let me be sure I understand: You are an active Commons user. User:Söckelchen is a special purpose sockpuppet which you created to upload this image. Although generally we discourage sockpuppets, that seems OK to me for the reason you give. You are concerned whether the EXIF still contains information you don't want disclosed.
I don't have any idea what was in the EXIF for an image I deleted July 3 -- I have deleted around 9,000 images since then. The EXIF is not visible, even to Admins, unless I undelete the image.
I suggest instead that you upload it again, with the same file name, and with the EXIF and other metadata exactly the way you want it. Let me know here as soon as you have done that and I will add a note to it that should keep it safe.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 18:23, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi James, the photograph was deleted, because of missing meta-data, but it had meta-data, I just changed them a bit to remain unidentifiable. So from my perspective, it just could be undeleted the way it was. Thanks. Söckelchen (talk) 19:33, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 19:41, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you, i guess, there is no undelinker? ^^ Söckelchen (talk) 19:46, 3 October 2011 (UTC)


Is it possible to take an image from wikimedia commons, modify it to your own liking and re-upload it to commons? How would that work? Cadiomals (talk) 16:03, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, certainly. There are two cases --

  • You significantly change the image, usually by cropping. In this case, you must upload the image under a new file name, giving credit to the original author and image, as well as yourself.
  • You improve the existing image. This is usually by rotating the image to make it correctly upright, or by removing an undesirable watermark. In this case, you should upload the new image directly over the old one, again leaving the original attribution, but adding your won credit.

Sometimes it can be difficult to tell which applies. See Commons:Avoid overwriting existing files for a discussion of the two cases.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 18:02, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

File:W WikiWorld.png

Hello James, you deleted this cartoon about a year ago. The Hebrew version was edited to comply with free content policy, I would like for you to restore the English copy so I could likewise bring it into compliance with policy. Thanks! Lionelt (talk) 09:14, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

(replied by e-mail to ask for an e-mail address to which I could send the file)     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:30, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Panchdev.jpg

Why was the image deleted? The source [31] ""Panch Dev" (Five Gods), in a Shiva-centric version; bazaar art, c.1910s" which makes it a PD-India. Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-Art_tag#Photograph_of_an_Old_Master_found_on_the_Internet as well as the "When the photograph shows a 2D work of art within a 3D frame" point in the "When should the PD-Art tag not be used?" section validates the use of a cropped version of the photo only having the art. --Redtigerxyz (talk) 13:12, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

First, no evidence was presented to support the 1910 date -- we do not know when it was published. Second, even if the 1910 date is correct, it does not support PD-India unless the image was published anonymously. The fact that we do not know the author does not mean that this rule can be applied. The best possibility for undeletion is to determine who the author was and that he died before 1941.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:51, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


Is now autotranslated. You can use it for non-en-speakers as well. -- RE rillke questions? 16:52, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Pictures Uploaded through Wikipedia Commons

Hello Mr Jim,

I am rather curious concerning the uploads you have deleted regarding the changes I made in the Confuciansm Portal and about the necessity of the changes you made. Due, to personal reasons, I had been unable to attend the debate concerning this deletion either. Thus, would you please enlighten me regarding these deletions? CherryGirl22| 23:48, 5 October 2011 (GMT)

Please give me a reference -- the DR or the name of the deleted file(s). I glanced through the last few of your deleted items and I wasn't involved.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:29, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Complex dedicated lane sign.gif

Hi. Regarding 'removing two post closure additions', I just added the signature for future reference, although I did notice that the discussion was closed. I really don't understand why the comment was added post-closure. I also suggested that User:Vminzer upload a non-free version to the English Wikipedia. Never mind - it's their loss and could easily be rectified by following a few simple instructions! Perhaps someone else with access to the software will be inclined to sort it out at some point. --Trevj (talk) 09:19, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

The reason we have a general rule against post-closure additions is to avoid confusion as to exactly what was in front of the closing Admin when the DR was closed. Your addition was useful and entirely appropriate, but it was attached to a comment that could mislead a future reader of the DR unless he was very careful to note the dates.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:25, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining this. --Trevj (talk) 11:39, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

A little help

I see that you are very active in the Deletion requests pages and you seem very knowledgeable. I was wondering if you couldn't help me for a minute. I'm trying to better understand the {{PD-US-no notice}} tag. I have several images that I would love to use that come from a 1970 Year Book. As far as I can tell there is no copyright tag on the book, the yearbooks doesn't appear anywhere in the "Copyright Catalog. The problem is I don't understand what exactly "without a copyright notice" means. Dose it mean that they have to put the © symbol somewhere? I'm concerned that if I upload the images I will be violating a copyright. Can you explain better what this means?--ARTEST4ECHO talk 18:46, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

In 1970, books were required to have a copyright notice. One notice would cover the whole book. It typically appeared on the back side of the title page and would read, "Copyright 1970 XYZ" or "(c) Copyright 1970 XYZ" where XYZ would be either the author or the publisher -- whichever owned the copyright. Therefore, a book published in 1970 without such a notice would be PD-US-no notice. Note that this would not apply to any advertisements published in the book -- they would have to have a separate notice. Note also that this applies only to a book first published in the United States -- the rest of the world had a different rule.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:48, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank. That make it as clear as copyright laws allow (which aren't very clear)--ARTEST4ECHO talk 12:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Calcineur now continues contributing under IP.


Calcineur (talk · contribs) continues his disruptive actions under an IP account: (talk · contribs). This account has been banned on the French Wikipedia by administrator Nakor (talk · contribs). Badzil (talk) 14:28, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

The vandal continues under another IP: (talk · contribs). Badzil (talk) 14:38, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
See Commons:Requests_for_checkuser#Calcineur      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:57, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I'm just trying «to present a fair, neutral description of the facts» (m:Neutral point of view), best regards.-- 15:00, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps, but doing so from multiple accounts is not allowed. Also, while, as Badzil suggested, tagging Category:Bullfighting might be appropriate, tagging each image is not. As a general rule we apply tags at the highest possible level -- thus since all the images in Category:Chicago belong in Category:Cities in Illinois, we put Category:Cities in Illinois on the Category:Chicago and do not put it on any individual image.
If you continue to use multiple accounts and to tag individual images with a Category that belongs at a higher level, you will be blocked from editing on Commons.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:17, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi Jim, I'm not related with Calcineur, and tagging only Category:Bullfighting is ok with me. thx -- 15:53, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Reverting the change of (talk · contribs) because it is an obvious case of COM:OVERCAT. See User talk: Badzil (talk) 16:14, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Turns out I made a bad suggestion above -- Category:Animal abuse is already on Category:Blood sports and Category:Bullfighting is in Category:Blood sports, so we do not need Category:Animal abuse on Category:Bullfighting. Badzil is correct that the addition is OVERCAT.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:42, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Request to close DR

Hello, Jim. Could you please close Commons:Deletion requests/File:Anahit History of Prostitution.jpg? It's been open for almost a month now. Thank you in advance, Chaojoker (talk) 07:24, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

As I noted there, you missed the point on this one -- it was a simple copyvio and could have been a speedy delete. The whole discussion of its being a forgery was irrelevant.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:12, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your quick response and also the explanation. Chaojoker (talk) 18:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Мадина Маматиева (Баркинхоева).jpg

Please take care about second file mentioned in request. Thank you. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:49, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Vijayanagara flag.png

Jim, what's Commons policy on flags/heraldic symbols that are based on the imagination of the uploader? On we'd delete them through FfD but here I'd sent an imaginary map to DR and the keep comments were that it doesn't matter that it could be wrong, so I'm wondering if I should spend any time in taking this to DR (it does our readers a disservice to show them such symbols). cheers. SpacemanSpiff (talk) 09:09, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Our policy is erratic at best. I think they probably need a DR and should be deleted as "out-of-scope no educational value". For me they fall in the same general category as any creative art produced by someone who is not notable for his or her creative works, so just as we delete paintings from unknown artists, we should delete imaginary flags and coats of arms. I don't think they can be speedy, because as a general rule it may not be obvious if they are fictional or not. (There's a certain America-centric part to that -- obviously if someone introduced a flag of the US state of North Kansas, we'd know it was bogus, but far fewer users can recognize that the subject flag is imaginary). However, as you've found, not all of our colleagues share that view.
In any case, you can certainly add either
with an explanation.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:48, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, I've added the {{Fictional}} tag to this one. I'll dig through the others soon and see if a DR would be worth the time. With "current states" flags it might be easier, but this one is a state that hasn't existed for centuries, so I guess it becomes more difficult to recognize the uploader's thought vs reality at point in time through sources. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 16:00, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Empty category

Hello James, please help me. I found this empty category; should I file it for speedy deletion and more generally should I propose for speedy deletion any empty category I find? -- Blackcat (talk) 12:03, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Our speedy deletion policy allows speedy deletion of empty categories, but I wouldn't necessarily do that to all empty cats -- I'd give a brand new one a week to settle in before deleting it because you don't know what order the creator is going to do things. But one like this -- here for eight months and empty, and its parent, are fair game and now gone.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for advice. -- Blackcat (talk) 08:40, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:TACA DC-3s in 1946.jpg

Hi Jim, though you closed this DR before I got the feedback from the alleged/disputed author, it was finally correct, as he today confessed to have the image "taken from the web". --Túrelio (talk) 21:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for that -- I should have waited for you to get an answer.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:26, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Deleted content and image

My page, User:J_Koblah_Wutoh was deleted by you. In reading about deletions, I understand that they are perhaps not permanent and there is most likely something I did wrong.

Could you please tell me why the page was deleted? Could you also tell me what I need to do to get this page back up and what changes need to be made?

I am also at a loss as to why the photo was deleted as well. I took that picture myself. Please tell me how to undelete this page in order to satisfy your requirements.

Please help! I do not understand all the wiki talk and I'm very confused.

Thank you so very much!

I appreciate the work you are doing here! — Preceding unsigned comment added by J Koblah Wutoh (talk • contribs) 05:48, 11 October 2011‎ (UTC)

Your user page, User:J_Koblah_Wutoh, was deleted by my colleague, Courcelles, because it violated our rules on self promotion. While we give users a certain amount of latitude in what goes on their user page, Commons is not Facebook or LinkedIn, and a user whose first edits are self promotion will have them deleted promptly.
It would be best if you made a few hundred useful edits on Commons before you create any user page here. After that, I suggest that you look at other user pages for guides to what you may and may not do. In general, a very short biography is OK, provided it focuses on skills and interests that will be useful to Commons. It must not be a sales pitch.
As for File:J Koblah Wutoh.jpg, my colleague, Motopark, told me it was a copyright violation. That appears to be correct, as it appears on this copyrighted page:
Since you were the subject, the claim that you were the photographer was, on the face of it, not correct. It was too small to be useful in any event. For all of those reasons, it was deleted.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi jim, sometime back one of the admins marked this image as Low Quality Picture. I reuploaded a refined version of the picture. Now, I want your advice (and direction):

  • The Low Quality Picture tag needs to be removed (I can do it myself, but I leave to the wise decision of an admin like you).
  • The earlier version of the picture can be removed while retaining the new one which is far more clear (this again is based your experience and insight.

Regards, Hindustanilanguage (talk) 05:51, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, to be frank, it's still a low quality picture -- it is significantly out of focus. I also would not delete the old image -- in fact, I wonder if your new version violates Commons:Avoid overwriting existing files?
And, by the way, when you are linking to an image on Commons, this form is shorter and easier to read:
Note "[[:" at the beginning, which produces a link rather than the image.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:00, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of article and jpg

I am a newbie and will make mistakes. However, I would like to re-write my article on J. Koblah Wutoh (Dr), he is an educator on healthy eating and natural ways of healing, using herbs and other healthy foods. He is also a K-9 Science doctor. I've seen a person who does similar education as Dr. Wutoh, who has a page here on Wiki. I would like to know in what format should I re-submit the article. This is the link to the person who does similar work as Dr. Wutoh, however Dr. Wutoh educates Africans on the healthy way to eat, take medication and he is a spiritual and holistic life coach among other things.

If I model J Koblah Wutoh's page after this page: would it help my case?

Also I would like to know why his image was deleted, as this image belongs to me. I am in sole possession of the image.

Could you please help me? I know I did not submit the article in the correct format, but I will if you give me permission, and once I submit it, you and the other editors can give me feedback.

Thank you so very much!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by J Koblah Wutoh (talk • contribs) 02:17, 13 October 2011‎ (UTC)

I suggest that you read the comments I made above --asking much the same questions twice will not get you different answers.
I will add only that this is Wikimedia Commons, not Wikipedia. Articles belong on Wikipedia. I do not know whether an article will be OK on Wikipedia or not, but I do know that writing articles on yourself is not permitted there. I should add that creating a different user name in order to write the article will be rapidly detected and you will be banned from editing.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:13, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

First of all, I did say that I was a newbie. I did not know there was a distinction between Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons until you pointed it out. I also did not see your answer above. It was not visible when I made this post. That picture is still not copywrited, I only allowed ACAN to use it, not own it. But I will take what you said about the file being too small.

What is the difference between Wikimedia and WikiCommons. I do not wish to offend anyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by J Koblah Wutoh (talk • contribs) 00:21, 15 October 2011‎ (UTC)

We are discussing here two different projects of the Wikimedia Foundation.
  • Wikipedia is a free, web-based, collaborative, multilingual encyclopedia project. There are currently versions in 282+ different languages which have a total of almost 20 million articles. While images may be used to illustrate articles, Wikipedia is primarily text and galleries of images are forbidden. Our discussion has focused on the English language version of Wikipedia.
  • Wikimedia Commons a database of 11,361,738 freely usable media files to which anyone can contribute. As a repository, it it largely consists of media files (mostly images, but some sound and video). The only text that is permitted is descriptions of the media files.
Images may be uploaded to Commons or to most of the various language Wikipedias. Images on Commons are available automatically to all the Wikipedias, as well as the world at large, so it is generally a better place for images. However our rules are stricter than those of some of the individual Wikipedias including WP:EN. In particular, we do not allow Fair Use on Commons. Therefore, some images are hosted on the individual WPs.
I do not know what to say to your comment:
"I also did not see your answer above. It was not visible when I made this post."
Your original post and my response have been visible on this page since you and I created them. When we conclude this discussion, they will be moved to my archive, but until then they were and are visible to anyone who looks.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:53, 15 October 2011 (UTC)


Have you read The Swedish copyright law (1960:729) allows in the article 24 to take pictures of works of art that are located permanently at public places outdoors. It is assumed that one can also publish the photograph for commercial purposes? I think you should consider Commons:Deletion requests/File:Dan Andersson-statyn på Järntorget i Göteborg, den 3 sept 2006.JPG again. Best regards --Ankara (talk) 14:54, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I did a great many today in Norway (where FOP applies only to architecture) and forgot that Göteborg is in Sweden (which has one of the broadest of all FOP laws)-- I should know better -- I've been there.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:17, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Day, Laraine.jpg

Hello Jim

Do you think this picture is in PD? I think so because it is a promotional publicity photo taken in 1943 (depend on Flickr description there). If I am wrong, please tell me. Best regards--Quan (talk) 15:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

There has been a lot of debate about studio publicity photos -- the argument is that they were deliberately not copyrighted because the studios wanted them to be used widely. I'm not really up to date on our current thinking. Why don't you just put a {{delete}} on it and see what the community thinks?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:19, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Deleted file

In Ref to your comment here would you spell out what you mean by AAR, Thanks. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 19:05, 16 October 2011 (UTC), and I approve this message.

I actually said "ARR" which is jargon for "All Rights Reserved". Sorry for the jargon -- Commons Admins make about 1,000 Administrative actions a day, half of which are done by seven people, so we usually work fairly fast.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:55, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


Hi James, thanks for your hard work to maintain deletion backlogs on Commons, it's appreciated. I noticed you closed the deletion regarding the Pomodoro sculpture in the UN collection. You cited that SIRIS states he did not sign his artwork. Just an FYI: the SIRIS Save outdoor Sculpture! work and related content about many sculptures on SIRIS rarely states artist signatures, so it's a poor source for that type of information. As with many subjects, public art is a case by case situation; some might say an artist did not sign their work, but signatures also might lie in places that are not easily viewable - like the base of a work. Pomodoro did sign his work, so it's best to not assume that because SIRIS doesn't state it, it doesn't mean it isn't there :) Here are a few examples: Disco and Untitled. Those are just two examples, as documenting artist signatures isn't something often seen in public art online (or in books), and is often kept for internal documentation by institutions, and this includes the non-public databases maintained by the Smithsonian (where I work). The "Save Outdoor Sculpture!" survey of the 1990s was actually produced by volunteers, including participation from the Girl Scouts of America, so we also have to keep in mind who was producing the survey and the content, too. :) I'm not sure how interested or involved you are in art history or public art, so perhaps I'm beating a dead horse for you, and if so, I apologize! Just wanted to inform you of some useful/useless information for future reference :) Thanks again for your contributions and keen eye! Missvain (talk) 14:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. I knew that SIRIS relied on reports from various people all over the country, so I don't assume that if SIRIS doesn't mention a signature that it is not there. I do assume, however, that if SIRIS says it is unsigned, that it is, in fact, unsigned. I also assume that if the Smithsonian itself owns the sculpture and doesn't show a signature in their description that there is none -- see Commons:Deletion requests/File:Arnaldo_Pomodoro_Sculpture.jpg which I closed as a keep just before coming here. I ask, (with tongue partly in cheek), since you work at the Smithsonian, if you couldn't take a walk through the Sculpture Garden and check on this one?
We need to remember that on many of our decisions, we must do the reasonable thing. Sometimes that will be wrong, but if we acted reasonably, it is OK. While I firmly believe in the falsity of the five arguments at Commons:Precautionary principle, I also think that we can keep something when we have a reasonable belief that it is PD-no-notice and that it is highly unlikely that the artist will object even if it is in copyright.
I note also that "incised with the artist's signature and date 'Pomodoro 86' (on the base)" is not a copyright notice. Neither is the description on the other work. A proper notice (under the old rules) must have had the word "Copyright" or the "(c)" symbol together with the full name of the copyright claimant and the year -- signature and date is not enough. In this case it would have to have been
  • Copyright 1986 Arnaldo Pomodoro
  • (c) 1986 Arnaldo Pomodoro or
  • since this is a post 1977 work, in the absence of notice, registration would have been sufficient, but Pomadoro did not register any of his post 1977 works.
So your examples appear to come down on the keep side of the discussion for Pomodoro.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:R.Krishanasamynaidu.jpg

The image File:R.Krishanasamynaidu.jpg is my "own work", which is available on multiple internet sources. But it was first created by me. For reference Visit [32] and [33], which blog/website are created by me. So please bring the image back for WIKIMEDIA COMMONS use. Thank you. --srither 15:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Since, as you say, the file has been widely used on the Web, our policy is to require explicit permission using the procedure at Commons:OTRS. When the appropriate license has been received, it will be undeleted. Do not upload it again.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

RJ Class 162

I must apologize for my repeated mistakes today with this category.--PetrS. (talk) 18:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

No problem -- I have made the same mistake myself. It is easy to do.
When I deleted it the second time, I saw that you had created the category, so I did not bother to add {{dont recreate}} to your talk page -- that is what usually happens when a user creates the same page after a deletion.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Why has a picture being suppressed on a page ?

Hello, I am Pinchus Krémègne grand- daughter. I noticed today that the picture of my Grand-father has been deleted on his wikipedia page. It is a picture my own father took of him, holding my sister late the 50's, early 60's.

Please cancel this desicion (submitted by someone who, apparently never saw or met my grand father) and restaure it on his page. WE DO have the copy rights since we own the roll !

Many thanks answer me on my private talk page. Fenomerix.

Sofie Kremen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fenomerix (talk • contribs) 21:05, 17 October 2011‎ (UTC)

I see no contributions by User:Fenomerix except the comment above. You will have to tell me what picture, or who uploaded it. Please remember that Commons Administrators delete a total of about 1,000 images each day so we do not remember every image that we looked at.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:29, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Categorización de archivos:

Hola, veo que has cambiado las categorías que cree esta mañana. No entiendo de categorizar y es mi intención continuar con la reoordenación de todos mis archivos, por lo que cordialmente te pido que me indicases en qué me he equivocado y cómo actuar en el futuro. También, mi idioma es el español y me gustaría que las categorías en las que contienen solo mis archivos apareciera al menos en mi idioma y si es posible en el que mayoritariamente se usa aquí, pienso que lo ideal sería que las categorías fuese multilingues, como es el proyecto, pero no conozco que exita esa funcionalidad. Y la pregunta: ¿Sería posible que si la categoría en dos idiomas es redundante la que se mantenga sea la de mi idioma? Saludos, --Nemo (talk) 21:16, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I see you've changed the categories created this morning. Categorize and do not understand my intention to continue the reordering of all my files, so I kindly ask you to indicate how I was wrong and how to act in the future. Also, my language is Spanish and I would like the categories in my files that contain only appear at least in my language and if possible in which mainly is used here, I think ideally be multilingual categories as is the project, but I know that excites such functionality. And the question: Is it possible that if the category is redundant in two languages ​​which remains is that of my language?
translator: Google

Hola, Nemo. Since I do not read or write Spanish, please use Google translate. If that does not work well for you, we can ask one of our Spanish speaking colleagues to help.

Ya que no saben leer ni escribir en español, por favor use Google Translate. Si eso no funciona, podemos pedir a uno de nuestros colegas que hablan español para ayudar.
translator: Google

It is Commons policy that all categories are in English. That is unfortunate, but there are technical reasons for it. So you will see Category:Moscow, and Category:Florence for two examples. see Commons:Naming_categories#Language Note that I did not change your subcategories to English, just the main one, Category:Photographs by Nemo.

It is also policy that categories for photographs by a user by tagged with {{User category}} -- you will see that my own are treated that way. see Commons:User categories. So, I added that tag to all of your categories.

If you have further questions, please ask them -- I am happy to help.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


I had uploaded the above file which was deleted for the reason of its license. Although I had given my explanation at its entry page even then it was removed. Would you please be kind enough to guide me what type of copyright license I must provide in such case. Should I write "Free license" in the permission column or something else. Please help me in uploading the same image again. Thanks,Krantmlverma (talk) 11:15, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I assume you mean File:S.N.Sanyal1424.gif?
First, please do not upload the image again. If you do, it will be promptly deleted. It is a violation of policy to upload images after they have been deleted. If it turns out, after discussion, that the deletion was incorrect, the existing image will be undeleted. (On Commons, "deletion" is not really what happens -- we use the word to describe our procedure of making an image unavailable to anyone except Administrators so that it cannot be used in violation of copyright.)
If I understand correctly your comment at Commons:Deletion requests/File:S.N.Sanyal1424.gif, you copied this image from a book. The book has a copyright. So does the image itself. It is not clear when this image was taken or where, or where it was first published. It is possible that the image is PD, but without those facts we cannot keep it. As an example, on the facts you have given, it would not be PD if it had been first published in the USA.
So, please lay out the facts for me here and we will see what the situation is.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:52, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Sir! as I had mentioned earlier in the summary information of this image file that this photo of S.N.Sanyal was published in so many news papers/periodicals when he was released from the jail in 1939. I have plenty of rare photos of Indian revolutionaries in my personal library which are neither available in wikipedia nor elsewhere. Ram Krishna Khatri who was also an accused in the Kakory Conspiracy (1925) had presented me a valuable book Kakori Shaheed Smriti on 18.12.1993. This photo of S.N.Sanyal was also published in that book. It was also published in my book Swadhinta Sangram Ke Krantikari Sahitya Ka Itihas (ISBN 8177831224) on page no 861 of (Part-III) in the year 2006. I hold the copyright of this book & this book have been published by my regular publisher Praveen Prakashan New Delhi (India). Since this image has already been deleted by your goodself I can not add these facts on its discription page or elsewhere. Now it is upto you to decide the matter. Hoping for a favour from you, with regardsDr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)Krantmlverma (talk) 06:36, 9 November 2011 (UTC)


Hi there James. I noticed that you were online and wondered whether you could take a look at the linked image as an admin (it's been up for speedy deletion for a while). It has a clear copyright status in the bottom right of the image with no explanation as to how this has been superseded. Thanks for you help in advance. Jay-Sebastos (talk) 12:01, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

First, when you want to link to an image, add a colon before "File", like this:
  • [[:File:MiguelA.Torres.jpg]]
so that you get a link, not the image itself.
You put a {{no permission since}} tag on the image only two days ago. Unlike a {{speedy}}, a No Permission runs for seven days to allow the uploader time to fix it. Please remember that Commons Admins delete about 1,000 images every day, so it is always best to let policy times run their course and let us handle things as routine, rather than as exceptions.
With that said, however, since the uploader's only work on Commons (including this image) was almost four years ago, I doubt that it will be fixed. Nonetheless, we should wait.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your kind message and advice. I haven't spent much time on WCOM (I do a fair amount on en wiki) so I'm not particularly accustomed to it and appreciate the help. Can I ask whether you think the tag I placed on the image was the correct one? Thanks a bunch. Jay-Sebastos (talk) 12:47, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Normally, it would be exactly correct. In a case like this, where the uploader made only three contributions almost four years ago, I would probably use {{delete}} instead, to give the issue a wider audience. That's a very subtle distinction, though.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:08, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:İzmir, Güzelbahçe'de akşam üzeri...5.09.2011.jpg

Can you explain why all images on the linked deletion request have been deleted while the DR hasn't been closed? As well a rational to delete all images, which isn't event wanted by any of the participants. AzaToth 17:06, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I have not finished with it. Usually, when someone requests that certain images not be deleted, he or she will remove them from the delete list (the upper list here) and put them in a new list (the lower list here). Since they were not in alpha order, I did not notice that that had not been done here, so I simply deleted everything in the upper list, assuming that those in the lower list were different.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:15, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Ah, no problem AzaToth 17:23, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Ridiculous Deletions

Neanderthal Child was uploaded by the originators to wikipedia long ago, it was released in the public domain by the creators. TBH I give up on Commons its a waste of time uploading any contributions since someone also seems to find an excuse to delete them. I am no longer supporting the project, I mean why should anyone bother? Wee Curry Monster (talk) 19:48, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

As I said in the DR closure, all we need to keep it is a link to the place where it tells us that the image has been released to the public. You have said that both at the DR and here, but we need evidence, not claims and accusations. Frankly, the project may be better off without people who make unsupported claims and refuse to document them.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:42, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
You mean like the link the uploaders included on the upload details? Which you appear to have ignored and deleted anyway. Yes I'm sure the project is much better of finding reasons to destroy content rather than creating it. Wee Curry Monster (talk) 22:49, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
I know that you think little of Commons volunteers, but I would appreciate it if you would give us credit for trying before we delete an obviously valuable image. There are many links on the File page. I checked each and every one of them before I deleted the image:
Perhaps I missed something, but there does not appear to be anything linked to the file other than two sites with clear copyright notices and no licensing information. Perhaps this is simply that the University has reorganized its web site, but finding the correct links is the responsibility of those who want to keep an image.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:11, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin Signature.jpg

You have closed the deletion request for that poor-quality image with decision "Kept: not a reason to delete". The reason actually was Commons:Deletion_policy#Redundant/bad_quality. I thought that the "reasons why a particular file is inferior to the alternative version" were obvious, but I can explain them explicitly if required.

Basically, my concern was not that the existence of this file somehow disturbs me, but that because there is an agreement to keep all files categorized even if they are superseded, image galleries currently show such bad-quality superseded files together with the better versions (and often even before the better versions). So, deletion would help to unclutter the galleries, and, as far as I can tell, should not have any negative consequences. Usually, similar requests were satisfied...

If I miss something, please let me know. If you agree with my arguments, should I reopen the request, or what?

Mikhail Ryazanov (talk) 04:15, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

We have galleries exactly for reason you specify. Categories will contain all of the images on a particular subject, while galleries, when well edited, will contain only the best images. I would expect that if cared about these two images, you would insure that only the one that you like is in the appropriate gallery.
As a general rule we are comfortable with keeping more than one image on a particular subject. In particular, we do not generally delete a JPG when a PNG becomes available -- there is no particular reason to do so and several reasons to avoid it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:14, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Could you give any particular reason to keep an obviously inferior quality image derived from the same source? — Mikhail Ryazanov (talk) 23:59, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
It costs nothing to keep an image. As you probably know, we never actually delete an image, but merely make it unavailable to anyone except Administrators, so it takes the same amount of storage to keep an images as to delete it. If I had a dollar for every time someone had thought that one of two images was "obviously inferior" and someone else disagreed, I'd be a rich man.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 01:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

File:DSCF3544 - PH-II-a-A-16696.jpg

Hi, James. You've kept "File:DSCF3544 - PH-II-a-A-16696.jpg" (which I have renamed "File:Statue at Peleș Castle, Romania - 20110810.jpg", but I note that the {{delete}} tag still appears on the file description page. — Cheers, JackLee talk 15:39, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey, Jack -- we've known each other long enough for you to call me "Jim", please.

Such things happen if the image is renamed while the DR is open -- DelReqHandler -- which most Admins use to handle Deletion Requests -- can't find the right file to remove the {{delete}} tag. The {{kept}} tag is also probably missing from the the talk page. There's no reason you can't do both.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:33, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, OK. I thought administrators were supposed to do that. Thanks. — Cheers, JackLee talk 03:48, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Non-admins can close keep requests and can certainly do minor cleanup. The only things that require Admins are closing delete requests, to do the deletion.
Besides, I'll ask again, why don't you become an Admin?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:03, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Putin-portraits-1614.jpg

Plz, specify more exactly cause(s) for keeping. For example, your colleagues had deleted many beer/wine/drink labels. The photo or art landscapes or still lifes on them were also small parts of the entire photos. Alex Spade (talk) 19:33, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I think that the small size and the multiplicity of the images of Putin put any one of them into the de minimis category. Some of our colleagues will disagree.
A picture of a single wine label is different -- although the art on it may be small, it is the central subject of the image. De minimis does not rest on the size of any part, but its importance to the image.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:28, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
The primary principle of de-minimus policy - the copyrighted part is not main/central subject of the image. So we can take a picture of car/tv-set with manufacturer logo, of mobile with software interface (recommended to switch off or to pre/post-hide interface), and we must use such photoworks in articles about respective car, tv-set or mobile, we cann't use in article about respective software. And here we have situation - the overview of office supplies shop shelves was made - but it is clearly seen that it is not been using as office supplies (shop) illustration. Alex Spade (talk) 08:02, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Again, it is certainly not a clear black line between keep and delete here. I just find it almost impossible to believe that a US court would object to the image of many Putin photographs, all of them relatively small.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:06, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
As I known, Foundation states, that small possibility of court action from copyright holder is not keeping argument. Alex Spade (talk) 15:08, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
That is not what I said -- I agree with you that the items listed in Commons:Precautionary principle are not valid arguments. What I said, was that if the copyright holder sued, it would be unlikely that a court would uphold him.
We predict what courts will do all the time. Our PD-Art template rests on Bridgeman v Corel, but that is not settled law even in the United States -- it only a District Court decision. It is as valid for us to predict that a court would call these Putin images de minimis as it is valid to argue that a court in California will probably uphold Bridgeman.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:24, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Logo US Auchel.jpg

Please don't delete DRs without removing the entry from the daily log. All in all, it is much easier to simply close the DR as a delete, which has the same effect and leaves the DR as a record of the reason for deletion.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 02:02, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Usually, I remove actually the link to this kind of useless DRs I delete. Sorry for my omission here.--Bapti 15:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC)


Hello Jim. You have recently deleted two pictures of Touquet Lighthouse. I have nothing to say about one of them, the picture about the current lighthouse built by the arquitect you talk about, but the other one, which name is above, refers to the previous lighthouses in the same location built in the 1850s and destroyed in 1944 during the WWII. It is an historical picture and I think it could be restored, except another different condition applies. Best regards, --AdelosRM (talk) 20:26, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you that the lighthouse itself in the image above appears to be too old to have a copyright. The image, on the other hand is a question. There is no date given for the postcard, so PD-old cannot apply unless somehow you can show that the image dates from before 1875 or so or can show that it dates from before 1940 and was published anonymously. Note that "anonymous" is not the same thing as unknown -- the fact that we may not know who the photographer was is not sufficient.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 01:06, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Your opinion requested

You have deleted some of my nominations previously and before I renominate some recent deletions not done by you, I would like you opinion on some French FoP images. Jcb deleted four images based on what I think are incorrect reasons. My post and reply, with links to the images, are in this discussion. I cannot remember ever having a problem with any nominations of French buildings based on FoP. Thanks in advance. (I'm watching for a while.) Ww2censor (talk) 19:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Jcb and I disagree on the level of originality required. I am very much closer to your side of the discussion you cited. There is, I understand, some case law about the required level of originality for architecture to have a copyright in France (the statute simply says "architecture"), so there may be some basis for Jcb's opinion.
  • File:Gan tower.jpg‎ -- clear delete
  • File:Juin 2008 003.jpg‎ -- I would delete it, but not it's not as obvious as the first
  • File:Tour Areva.jpg‎ -- I would delete this on quality grounds -- I would probably pass on closing this on FOP grounds, because it really is a fairly stock glass curtain wall building, but I don't understand the case law well enough to close it as a keep.
I do not generally seek out battles on this issue -- we have more than 11 million images on Commons and my best guess is that 1% of them -- more than 100,000 -- should probably be deleted. In that context, the few that Jcb and I disagree on are very small potatoes.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:50, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Seeking battles is not something most of us want around here. I understand there may be some interpretation differences but I too usually agree with most deletions or keeps I see. Even so 100,000 is still no small quantity for possible deletion. BTW, what is your opinion on File:La Defense 4.jpg that Jcb also kept? I think DM does not apply. Ww2censor (talk) 03:18, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Agreed.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:19, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks again. Ww2censor (talk) 04:14, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Restoring a picture you deleted.

Hello there,

Why was "Bahrain Irish Delegation meet with Nabeel Rajab, President, Bahrain Centre for Human Rights..jpg" picture deleted? all of it's copyrights status were fine, you can check this album Explain please. Bahraini Activist (talk) 09:56, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Bahrain Irish Delegation meet with Nabeel Rajab, President, Bahrain Centre for Human Rights..jpg

My apologies. Commons Administrators make about 1,000 administrative actions a day. Occasionally -- 1/10 of one percent of the time -- we get it wrong. It would have been helpful if you had commented at the DR instead of waiting until after it was deleted.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:18, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, next time I will. Bahraini Activist (talk) 20:43, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

deleted page

Thank you for for having deleted the page I created erroneously! --CityClass (talk) 17:57, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Fast deletion of File:ELKI-icon.png

Did you even bother to read the license? Template:AGPL is a well-known open source license - and the image is from the source tarball - is this indeed not ok for commons? --Chire (talk) 10:14, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

As I said in my edit comment (which you apparently did not bother to read) -- the license page on the source site clearly states that the license is for non-commercial use. Commons does not allow NC licenses. That fact makes moot the larger issue with most open source software product icons -- the software itself is open-source, but the product icons are not freely licensed. A good example of that are all the WMF icons -- Wikipedia is freely licensed, but its icons are tightly controlled.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:20, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
The image is the .png icon from the source code archive; "/src/de/lmu/ifi/dbs/elki/elki-icon.png" and the source code says AGPLv3? So which "license page" do you refer to that says something about the icon different from the source code? I mean, I know why Debians "Firefox" is called "Iceweasel" etc. But apparently it doesn't apply to File:Dia_logo.jpg either? So where is the difference? --Chire (talk) 10:38, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Forgive me if I am a little upset, but your lead, "Did you even bother to read the license?" is not very polite -- and since you do not even know where the license is, it seems that you yourself did bother to read it.
See, with particular reference to the Summary in the third paragraph, "but you cannot include it in a commercial product" and to section 10, which explicitly forbids charging for the software. Commons requires that images be free for commercial use.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:08, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Then this should be noted on Template:AGPL and GPL that they are not acceptable for Wikimedia, because the license text, such as section 10, is essentially that of GPL (well, actually AGPL, but the diff between GPLv3 and AGPLv3 is not in section 10). --Chire (talk) 11:31, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. I personally do not like licenses other than Creative Commons, as most have various requirements (including providing the license text) that make them impractical for most print use and therefore not really free. I have raised the issue of these problems, but it is an issue that does not really interest the community much.
That does not, however, eliminate the problem here. You cannot, for example, put the icon on a tee shirt and sell it. That means that Commons cannot keep it.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:42, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Actually I'm not sure about this. The "in a commercial product" is in the "overly simplified summary", and the term is not-well defined what "commercial" in this context means, here it probably just means "a product where you want to keep the source code secret". The actual rights that you probably get from the T-Shirt is to get the original .png file that was used for printing, from the AGPL text. Plus, Wikimedia Commons needs to find a way to provide this kind of imagery for Wikipedia. It's not meant to be another either. --Chire (talk) 12:42, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons is two things in one:

  • A convenient way to host images which can then be used on any of the many WPs. Not having Commons would mean that images would have to be hosted locally and the WPs would have many fewer images to choose from and finding them would be much harder. However, Commons provides only freely licensed images. The WPs must figure out their own way of dealing with images that do not have free licenses -- Fair Use is the solution to that in many cases. That would have to be the solution with this one.
  • As it says in the main page lead, "... Wikimedia Commons, a database of 11,448,242 freely usable media files to which anyone can contribute." In that role, it acts in a role that is a superset of the role of Commons would like to be the only place that anyone in the world needs to go for any image whatever, eliminating the need for the likes of Of course that will never happen, because, like Flickr, has no practical mechanism for even attempting to ensure that all images are correctly licensed and not copyvios. When I opened just now, I saw at least one image that I would delete immediately if it were here.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:46, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to follow up with a thank you for your patrolling of Commons. As you mentioned, OpenClipart lacks this kind of quality control, and it is a lot of effort that does not receive the appreciation it receives, because it also involves challenging the work of others. And in fact, for example from the discussion on ELKI I have learned about Commons and about presenting the intentions I have for the contribution more clearly (emphasizing the "specialized gallery" aspect of it). Is there any non-free media use rationale available in Commons? In fact, I had only uploaded the logo for using it in the Template:Created with ELKI that seemed to expect an icon. Do you see a way (explicit license for the image by the ELKI authors maybe?) of adding it, or is the icon-less template the best we can do (without drawing a similar replacement icon). --Chire (talk) 14:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome. We each contribute in our own ways.
Please remember that Commons is, fundamentally, a repository, nothing more. As I said above, it performs that role for both the rest of the WMF projects as well as many users outside. Commons Galleries are ancillary to the role of repository and are not intended to be a destination in their own right. They are most useful when the number of images available in a category is too large to look through easily or when our category tree naturally separates images that might more easily be found if they were on one page.
Because Commons is a repository of freely usable images, we do not have any ability to host non-free images. That would be a contradiction.
You could certainly ask the authors of ELKI for a license to the icon -- but they would have to understand that it would be a license for use anywhere, not just on Commons. If you succeed, they would need to use the procedure at Commons:OTRS and reference the file name which you used. As you may know, we never actually delete anything -- "deletion" really means "hide from everyone except Administrators" -- so if a licensed is received, the image will be undeleted more or less automatically.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:39, 26 October 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for deletion of BMW_M5_E34.jpg. It was indeed my own work, but I wanted it removed after the admin GameOn revealed pictures where the registration number was visible and that compromised my identity. May I ask you to also remove the links to these pictures in the discussion history? Aswell as my own comments which I later removed. This is the discussion page! CompuTerror (talk) 15:24, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I will admit that I don't fully understand what went on with this image, but I am very reluctant to compromise our DR record by removing parts of it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:31, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
I'll try and summarize. I noticed some people on svwp wasn't that nice and some admins are trying to make me look bad. Therefor I do not want my identity to be revealed, since it's obvious these people hold a grudge for nothing for an unhealty amount of time. The picture GameOn refered to was uploaded 2008 to a facebook app. I didn't see the need to be anonymous back then. The admin GameOn's only reason to ask the image to be deleted was to mess with me. I'm sure he realizes the car is mine. A Swedish car on an american site... But as I said. I proved the images were indeed my own work, but then felt it was better to have it removed due to some admins unhealthy interest for me which I don't understand where it comes from. I guess I have to settle for it is how it is now and hope no one descides to look me up. The whole thing started with another admin who claimed I had sympathies for things I absolutely do not have and he didn't wanna resolve the matter. Then a couple of other admins carried on. CompuTerror (talk) 15:56, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/Files of User:LloydArp

Hi. You've deleted the files in this request, but you don't seem to have formally closed it. --Simone 20:38, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done, thanks.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:17, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Arnold Haukeland pictures

Hi, I understand that there has been some problems with the pictures I uploaded on the page for Arnold Haukeland. I´m not all in to this, but can you please explain what I did wrong so that I hopefully can upload the pics again? I have taken all the photos myself, and I actually have the rights of the sculptures as well since Arnold Haukeland was my grand father and his works are in our family. Thank you. Best regards Håvard Haukeland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hhjanbu (talk • contribs) 08:47, 28 October 2011‎ (UTC)

The reasons are well explained at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Havdronning.jpg -- the statue has a copyright. The image is a derivative work of that copyright and there was no indication in the file description that you had any rights to make such a work. It was deleted because, on the face of it, it was a copyright violation.
If you yourself are the only heir of Arnold Haukeland, then you can solve this by using the procedure at Commons:OTRS to send a message confirming you ownership of the copyright. If there is more than one heir, then each one will need to send a message. Each such message must refer to the file name or names to which they apply.
In any case, do not upload any images again -- that wastes Commons resources and is a violation of our rules. If we receive satisfactory permission, the image(s) will be undeleted promptly. If we do not, they will be undeleted on January 1, 2054, seventy years after Haukeland's death.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:16, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for your answer. But I still don´t understand why the rights of the sculptures is an issue when the sculptures are situated in public space? And in that case, how is it possible to avoid the issue. I really want people to see his beautiful works whitout having to visit them physically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hhjanbu (talk • contribs) 17:34, 30 October 2011‎ (UTC)

It is confusing, particularly because it varies from country to country. Basically, every creative work has a copyright. It is an infringement of that copyright to make copies, even when they are in a different form, such as a photograph of a book or a sculpture. You surely understand that you cannot go into a library (a public place) and make photocopies of books and then sell the copies. A photograph of a building, painting, or sculpture is exactly the same thing -- we call it a Derivative Work.
In some countries, there are special exceptions to the copyright laws for works that are permanently installed in public places. We call these rules Freedom of Panorama (FOP). Norway, like the United States, has FOP only for architecture, so photographs of sculptures that are still under copyright can not be kept on Commons without a license from the sculptor or his heirs.
As I said above, if all of the heirs of Arnold Haukeland give us a license using the procedure at Commons:OTRS, then we can undelete the images
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:11, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your informative and complementary answer. Hhjanbu (talk) 12:51, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Orde van Stalin USSR.gif

Did you look into the other uploads made by this user? They are mostly clearly not his own works. AzaToth 13:45, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

No, I didn't. Admins do about 1,000 deletions per day -- ten of us do 75% of that, but even with that large number, the backlog of DRs has been growing recently. I have little time for research.
By the way, have you thought about becoming an Admin? -- with 28,000 global edits, 5,000 edits on Commons, and over 400 in the Commons: namespace, you certainly have the numbers.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:57, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Mostly because I dislike the commons admin regulation, mostly the arbitrary 6 month rule, which for me gives a sense of wrong idea what an admin is; For me, an admin is someone who is entrusted to use the tools, not someone who must do specific/arbitrary work to be allowed to have the sysop bit enabled. Unless that part of the regulation is dropped, I can't willfully apply for adminship. AzaToth 15:01, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I think it is a reasonable rule -- perhaps even that the required number is too low. Everything must have an expiration -- or at least some check on whether it is still needed. Otherwise the number of Admins would just grow by about three per month without end. It is hard to recruit new Admins -- I suspect that one of the reasons is that people like you look at the numbers -- about 250 -- and think that one will not make any difference. Imagine if that were 1,000? 2,000?
The fact is that the number of Admin actions per month has grown by 8% in the last six months. We now do about 1,125 per day -- over 400,000 per year. 75% of those are done by ten people. We need more help.
If an Admin remains interested in keeping the tools, he or she can do five actions in five minutes -- that is not a very difficult hurdle to overcome.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:11, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Generally I dislike number and edit counts. Would it be a problem if the number of admins grow by about three per month without end? AzaToth 14:45, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Serious problem, maybe not -- although note my recruiting comment above -- it is harder to recruit people to be one of a team of 1,000 than of a team of 250. Minor nuisance in several ways

  • Our customs habits and tools change with time -- even in the 18 months that I have been an Admin I have noticed some changes in attitudes and closings on certain issues. DelReqHandler has had a major revision which has a learning curve. Someone tuning out for a year or two and then coming back with the tools would be a disruption.
  • There is also the fact that the more privileged people you have, the more chance there is for a security breach.
  • Also minor is the fact that maintaining the three versions of Commons:List of administrators (which I am active in doing) is a nuisance with 250 names, and would be more of a nuisance with more names.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:59, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

While I can accept a policy to revoke sysop bit for inactive admins on commons, I'm not so found of arbitrary rules. Anyway, I'll think of it, but no promises; You are doing so much admin work, I'm probably not needed anyway. AzaToth 15:47, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
I am only sixth of the top ten -- and, as I said, the numbers are growing at around 16% per year. I appreciate your thinking about it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:52, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of file Maria Shvarnovna.jpg

Hi! You have deleted File:Maria Shvarnovna.jpg. In the summary you have wrote Per Commons:Deletion requests/File:Maria Shvarnovna.jpg. But it is clear from Commons:Deletion requests/File:Maria Shvarnovna.jpg that it should be kept. The two arguments were non-educational and self-promoting. But from the discussion it is clear that the file was educationally useful. I have provided some links in the discussion's section Usage in mass media that prove that the image is remarkable. In addition COM:SCOPE says that A media file that is in use on one of the other projects of the Wikimedia Foundation is considered automatically to be useful for an educational purpose. What about self-promoting. That was mislead by user Ghirlandajo. He did the same while Canvassing in ruwiki. It is obvious that I am not the author and that I didn't create any article about author. Also I uploaded just one of the works of that author. Can you say any other criteria by wich the file should be deleted? Please undelete the file.--Bouron (talk) 14:35, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

It is firmly established policy that we do not keep personal art from non-notable artists. Although this image may have appeared in a limited number of places, that does not make the artist notable. You had no support for a keep decision and several of our colleagues believed that it should be deleted. I agreed. You may, if you wish, raise the issue at Commons:Undeletion requests.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:40, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I would be pleased if you provide the link to the policy with we do not keep personal art from non-notable artists. Also the fact that the author is non-notable is disputed. It depends on notability criterias. I found out that authors works are used in several museums. Author was invited to the presentation of the documentary about the subject of the file as author of that work. In addition author appeared in Russian TV. So the fact that author is non-notable is disputed. What about «this image may have appeared in a limited number of places». I don't think it really plays any role here. Maria Yasynya is historic figure, so I don't think we should expect a lot of places where she appears. But you can notice that in the most of places where Maria Yasynya is mentiond as subject, the image is shown or mentioned too.
I had no support because I didn't canvass. In ru wiki there were users who supported me. But I thought the main actors here are arguments. If not please provide a link. ...I think it was very unfair.--Bouron (talk) 15:17, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

rev. del (hiding of file content)

Hi Jim! Just wanted to have a short talk with you about hiding file versions. I have changed the hiding at to a more transparent way. I think it is much more easier to understand what was going on for outsiders and to even know that the photo was uploaded by the photograph. Do you see it in a different way? Is there a reason why you prefer to completely delete the one file version? Interested in your opinion - thank you! Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 13:49, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

I can only plead expediency.
I will also admit that that I had never done it that way before -- I just tried it out on a similar case I remembered, see File:Stockholm Palace 2005.jpg and I agree that for many cases preserving the file history makes sense.
Thanks for the teaching session.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:00, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments, and all right. :) Just use the "(show/hide)" link (but I guess you know where it is - at least now) in the file history, click hide, insert reason, done. Very easy. --Saibo (Δ) 15:23, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Mamayev Kurgan, The Motherland Calls.jpeg


Can you please provde a rationale why decided to delete this file? Thank you in advance. Regards, High Contrast (talk) 14:51, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

It had been open for two weeks -- I'm just trying to clean up the backlog. I don't generally provide closing comments for two reasons:
  • Speed -- ten Admins are now doing about 800 deletions per day, up 8% in the last six months (the remaining 300 deletions are done by the other 245 Admins).
  • Generally it should be obvious. If I have a different point of view from the discussion, I will add it to the discussion without closing it. I will, sometimes, close something with a brief comment where the nom or another commenter has made a clear mistake.
In this case, it's a sculpture in Russia. The sculptor died in 1974, so it is still under copyright. Although the discussion had many speculations, no one provided any evidence that the sculptor or his heirs had generally licensed the copyright. It seems fairly obvious to me -- I don't like the lack of FOP in Russia (or in the USA, for that matter) -- but we follow the law unless there is clear evidence to the contrary.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:11, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Ok, that's the frame. But the fact that this image was published on the official website of the Governor of Volgograd Oblast (the region where this sculpure is placed) under a free CC-licence does not play any role? --High Contrast (talk) 15:20, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
The image caption does not contain a license. I assume that the whole site has a CC license someplace (I don't read Russian, so I did not go searching for it.) That license might well be intended to apply to everything on the site, but almost certainly did not consider the question of DWs. Remember that we are far more sophisticated about copyright than the average bureaucrat -- I doubt that the site designer gave the sculptor's copyright any thought at all.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:34, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Well yes. I know of that. It is hard to say how good those officials were/are in licencing terms but we do not know this - we just can specualte about it. But what we can say for sure is, that everything on this website is published under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported license and a GNU Free Documentation License 1.3. I personally asssume that files from this single site a perfectly ok (comparable with --High Contrast (talk) 15:42, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
From what I know now, I must respectfully disagree. A general license on a large website cannot be assumed to apply to specific special cases. I would appreciate it if you would give me a link to the page with the license on it. Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:26, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
No general license on a large website? There are many examples on Commons where we have such situations, for instance the NASA website which "says": "everything is PD-NASA unless it is otherwisely stated" or the where simply everything is "freely" licenced. Here the gouvernor of Volgograd oblast signed this decree personally that everything on this page is released under the licence stated a few lines above. --High Contrast (talk) 16:40, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

In response to your appeal to the Head of Administration of the Volgograd of A. Brovko, said: Department press service of the Head of Volgograd Region Administration confirms that any material of official web portal Administration of the Volgograd region - photos, texts, video and audio - can be freely distributed, in whole or in part, any media servers on the Internet or at any media without any restriction on volume and timing of the publication. It resolution applies equally to the newspaper, zhurnalytradiostantsii, TV stations, websites and other pages on the Internet. The sole and prerequisite for reprinting and rebroadcasting is a reference to source - We can not be placed on the official internet portal of the Administration Volgograd region mention of licenses «Creative Commons Attribution - ShareAlike 3.0 Unported »and« GNU Free Documentation License 1.3 », since the data documents are not part of the Russian legislation. However, in practice, we agree with the policy community "Wikipedia" in of copyright, which is reflected in the above licenses. You can treat this response as an official permit members community "Wikipedia" to use the materials without citing any restrictions that fully meets the conditions of the license «Creative Commons Attribution - ShareAlike 3.0 Unported »and« GNU Free Documentation License 1.3 ". We also inform you that at the moment the official web portal Administration of the Volgograd region is the reconstruction. In particular, the Soon there will be photos and video gallery with the possibility of reproduce materials in the original and compressed formats, as well as Multimedia map of Volgograd region with information about all municipalities in the region. Lenin, VI Ave., 9, Volgograd, 400 098. Tel. (8442) 30-71-25 Fax: (8442) 30-72-80. E-mail: Thank you for raising this issue. Thank you for your interest to our region. We hope for further fruitful cooperation in the dissemination of information about our region. For all the questions you can contact the staff of Press Service Shcherbakov Yu (Tel. 30-76-62, e-mail: Yu scherbakov (g),

translator: Translation of cited decree by Google

Aside from the issue of whether the DW issue was considered, I don't read that as a free CC license. It speaks in terms of Wikipedia, doesn't seem to contemplate use by others outside of WP, and doesn't mention commercial use at all. It explicitly says that it is not a CC license. Note in particular, "an official permit members community "Wikipedia" to use the materials" -- not Commons, not anyone outside of WP.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:51, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

So the licence tag as a whole is in critique - if the use of the files is just for "Wikipedia". --High Contrast (talk) 13:43, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Deletion vs renaming

Hi Jameslwoodward !

You just wrote about Commons:Deletion requests/File:MonteSantAngeloAnsicht3.jpg‎ that "It is a waste of Commons resources to do this. Please use {{rename}} when you want a file name changed."

First, I must say that this "resources waste" is due to my inexperience in file moving since I used {{delete}} instead of {{speedydelete}} which I discovered lately.

Second, deletion and re-upload is promoted instead of renaming when uploaders misname their files (I can't remember where I read that and how it is written) thus this "resources waste" must not be that huge.

HTH, Papatt (talk) 16:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

I apologize if my note was a little too strongly worded. Commons Admins do about 1,100 Administrative actions per day (ten of us do 800 of those) and anything that can keep that load down is encouraged.
I would appreciate it if you could find where you read your "Second", because it is definitely very wrong.
  • If you put a {{rename}} tag on a file, it will handled routinely by a volunteer who has File Mover status -- something that goes very fast.
  • A {{speedy}} requires the attention of an Administrator.
  • A {{delete}} is even worse because it requires the attention of the community in an already long daily list.
Although storage is very cheap, both speedy and delete require more disk space, because, as you may know, we never actually delete anything, just hide it, so both versions, old and new, will be kept forever. The principal resource wasted, though, is community time.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:23, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

I accept...

... your apology. Thank you! Sincerely, SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:14, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


Hi Jim,

I saw you deleted Pardus Linux screen shots from the discussion page above. Can you explain the reason for deletions? Btw. User talk:Kefong uploaded two pdf files derivatives of File:1bkv_collagen_02.png I dropped a note to him but an admin attention might be necessary. --Nevit Dilmen (talk) 09:22, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm certainly open to discussion on the subject, but there are a number of unanswered questions.
First, who owns the copyright on the photo of the deer?
Second, we'd need a very clear look at the license to the various components on the screens -- open source software is tricky -- the software itself is freely licensed, all of the icons that you use to run it may or may not be freely licensed, and the icon/logo of the system itself is usually under tight control. It is analogous to WMF -- everything on this page, and every other page in all the WMF projects, is freely licensed, except the logo in the upper left corner. The same is true of Mozilla and its logos.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:26, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

The original file is mine and Pardus Linux acquired it from wp commons. File:Gaziantep Zoo 1260109 cr.jpg I was not notified about usage but I learned about it from a friend. The main claim for deletion was the files being copyrighted to Softpedia who acquired the screen shots. About the small logos on corners there are thousands (not hundreds) of files from Linux distros on commons who show them and they are not usually a reason for deletion. If there is any concern about them you can pixelate or blur any icon of question and upload a new version. It should not be a reason for deletion. --Nevit Dilmen (talk) 10:44, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, I revised the closure. Thank you for your polite persistence.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:55, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you Jim, Did you had time to review File:Collagen_piic.pdf and File:Collagen_pic.pdf? Should I open a DR? or should we wait for user to respond? These are pdf copies of File:1bkv_collagen_02.png just converted to pdf. & Pdf versions are less likely to be useful in projects. --Nevit Dilmen (talk) 14:05, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
I deleted one and hung a {{delete}} on the other.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:37, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Tnx & have a nice day... :) --Nevit Dilmen (talk) 16:06, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


Hi Jim, there are some parts missing at the closure of Commons:Deletion_requests/File:MGP.jpg: reason, which I really would like to know (did you found some different info than I did?), and the file page has no (active) license tag. ;) (of course I can fix it then, too). Thank you! Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 03:33, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand the question/problem you ask. I kept this one because it appeared to me to fall under Coats of Arms as a case where this representation was drawn from scratch by the uploader. Our rule on COAs is that each representation has a copyright, but that they are not DW. Did I misunderstand something here?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:46, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Okay, thanks! COM:COA wasn't mentioned in the DR - so I strongly think you should have used your second and third sentence from here as reason in the DR. Otherwise others (e.g. I, myself) cannot learn if the reason why it is kept is unknown. For more reasons to use "DR reasons" see the Jcb case. But this (Jcb) isn't why I am here - see below:
I wasn't sure about the no DW thing (maybe partly, because I do not really know the COM:COA). If I interpret your comment and the COA page (did quickly read it now) correctly, that means that redrawn COAs are never a DW? Cannot believe it. If the new drawing features artistic, personal creativity of the author of the "original" CoA it is a DW, isn't it?
So you had closed this DR because per COM:COA drawings "from scratch by the uploader" are no DW, right?
I am not sure this really has been done "from scratch": It rather looks like a digitally modified scan/photo of something) and I doubt it is from scratch (e.g. only based on the blason) due to this: This is not very high res but the details are kind of close to "our" CoA. Also the uploader said in the DR "it's a derivated work from a public image". So I suspect he means something different as "from scratch" by his comment "from zero".
I was trying to find out if the official CoA version is PD due to being a "official work" or something. Wasn't successful as of now. This would have solved the DW problem. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 15:45, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
First, I have not voted on Jcb because I disagree strongly with his view of FOP and I don't feel it is a good thing to vote to remove someone because you disagree on policy -- a little disagreement keeps us all honest. I do think he should have been more communicative. I would have given him a month off, but that's not a penalty that we have.
As for leaving more closing comments, here are my thoughts: In an ideal world, we would have more Admin time and we could all do long comments. The reality is that 10 Admins do 800 deletions per day (the other 245 Admins do another 300) and we're about to lose #4 on that list -- the one who has been the most aggressive at working on the backlog. Leaving comments takes time, so if someone in the DR says something that is wrong, or if the nomination is for the wrong reason, then I leave a closing comment. If, on the other hand, it will be obvious to most people why I closed it, then I do not leave a comment.
Four or five times a week someone asks for an explanation -- and I give one, in detail. (This is, of course, where Jcb fell down). If you look above, you'll see some of them, including two different explanations to the same person why we can't keep an image of a sculpture in Norway. I try to be patient, polite, and complete in every case. Since I average around 550 deletions a week, doing half a dozen long explanations rather than 550 short ones saves a lot of time.
Now for COAs. A Coat of Arms is embodied in a blazon, which is simply a description, using heraldic terms, of the COA. There is considerable creativity in the drawing of the COA from the blazon. See, for example, Category:Bulls in heraldry. There are dozens of different bulls and a person drawing a COA that called for a bull could have used most of them (excepting those with special features like wings or golden horns). Or, of course, he could draw a new one. Or, compare, File:King Harold II.gif with File:Coa King Harold Godwinson.svg -- they are the same blazon, but quite different representations. So, our general rule is that a particular representation of a COA has its own copyright -- we do not allow simply taking one from the Web.
Finally, there is the question of copyright in the blazon. COM:COA is quite definite that there isn't one. I think that arises from the fact that a blazon is a mechanistic description of a specific arrangement of elements. A proper blazon can be written only one way -- there is no room for creativity in its description. Since it is essentially a list of facts, there is no copyright because you cannot copyright facts.
So, the question is whether our uploader was telling the truth when he said, "I did the image (from zero with photoshop, for example the resolution is better and many details drawn)..." I assume good faith in the face of a very clear statement like that. You may well be right that he meant something different. He might be lying. That we cannot tell easily.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:00, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

One more copyrighted file of user:Fz22

Hi, there is one more copyrighted file related to this deletion request: Seems that User:Magog the Ogre added somewhat wrong deletion proposal tag to it and you did not noticed that file when you deleted this one: Due to the fact that I was the one who modified original copyrighted file of user:Fz22 (and I was not aware that it is an copyright violation), I think that this file should be deleted, so that such copyright violation is not accredited to me. PANONIAN (talk) 06:48, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done, thank you. As you surely know, Admins work very fast, deleting more than 1,100 files per day. It's helpful when you add a file to a DR to put it out on the left margin with a bullet like this:
Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:52, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:S.Stallions.png

Hi, I saw that there was one file left to delete on the above deletion request (Image:R.ra.png)? Can you delete it too? Thank you -- Deadstar (msg) 09:04, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

And thank you for all the work you do on deletion requests. -- Deadstar (msg) 09:08, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done Thank you for noticing it.
And, you're very welcome.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:34, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:ATY.logo5.jpg

Hi James. Could you give more time to this picture and restore it with an {{OTRS pending}} template? The uploader might obtain a permission from the Turing family but he needs some time... Thanks in advance! --Eusebius (talk) 20:37, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Hello, good to hear from you. You are certainly experienced enough to see the issues here. User:Pmt6sbc does not appear to be very sophisticated about copyright. It seems to me maybe 50/50 that the Turing heirs actually own the copyright, the other possibility being that the photographer owns it and that someone has assumed that ownership of a print means ownership of the copyright. Unless you have seen something more than the exchange at User talk:Pmt6sbc with Yann, I'm inclined to wait until we actually see an OTRS message. On the other hand, I'm also inclined to accede to the wishes of a very experienced colleague. So, what is your pleasure? Regards,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:34, 1 November 2011 (UTC) By the way, your "God hole" image is wonderful. Jim
Hi, thanks for your message. Actually I've had an e-mail exchange with this user, where he dropped specific names and how he's been in contact with them about this picture. I know that the user could be mistaken about copyright (subject vs author), but if a Turing family member sends a standard permission e-mail to OTRS, the issue will be sorted out there. Personally, I think it would be a shame if Commons/the Foundation lost its potential contact with the Turing trust as we did with many people and organizations because of strict procedure application, so I'd like to give it a try! --Eusebius (talk) 06:00, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
OK, ✓ Done. We'll see what happens.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:25, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. --Eusebius (talk) 14:17, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


Hello, I just wonder a little. Why did you kept this file?--Avron (talk) 19:56, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

It is in use -- any use, including archives counts for our rule that any file that is in use cannot be deleted as out of scope.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:36, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of images

If any photograph that includes a sculpture is a violation of copyright, then it is impossible to upload any photographs from urban landscapes. You also failed to quote the policy that applied to my images.

Congratulations. I will no longer upload images to the Commons. You can look at my contributions and ask yourself if you have done the enterprise any favors. -- --Leif (talk) 07:22, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

As I explained fully in closing one of the DRs, the two images of yours that were deleted three weeks ago:
were both clear violations.
It is generally possible to photograph the urban landscape, but it is not possible, in some countries, to take photographs whose principal subject is still under copyright.
As for your leaving Commons, I am sorry to see you go, but it seems to me that leaving us because you did not understand the very technical rules of copyright in a foreign country is a poor reason to go. Learning all of the rules can be very time consuming, but there are a variety of places you can go for specific questions.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:30, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

[The following is copied from an e-mail exchange]
I am Norwegian and took time to read the various rules. The entire legal framework is here, for your reference Clearly, what is a "main subject" is a matter of interpretation. An anonymous editor, whose main goal seems to be to delete as many images as possible from the Commons (for reasons we can only speculate about) should not have authoritative say.

I submit you should undelete the images. Leif Knutsen

Thank you for opening a dialog, rather than just leaving cold. My use of "foreign country" was based on your user page, but of course, I should have realized that "resident of New Jersey" doesn't necessarily mean that Norway is foreign to you.

I don't read Norwegian, so your cite is not helpful to me. In translation, the Norwegian copyright law, at Section 24, says

"Works of art and photographic works may also be depicted when they are permanently located in or near a public place or thoroughfare. However, this shall not apply when the work is clearly the main motif and the reproduction is exploited commercially."

In the first case, we have the statue in the foreground and a fairly ordinary city street in the background. In the second case, the only thing visible in the image except trees and shrubs is the statue, and it is dead center. It would be hard to argue that either of these images have any value without the sculptures and that the sculptures are not the main motif.

I trust you know that Commons requires that all images be free for commercial use, so the NC clause in the Norwegian law makes it useless to us.

From my perspective, this is a perfectly straightforward case of a derivative work of copyrighted sculpture in a country that does not allow such images. We deal with dozens of similar cases every day and both the law and Commons policy are well settled. Feel free to bring it up at

As for your objection to the "anonymous editor", while you and I are not anonymous, most of our colleagues use pseudonyms on Commons, so even those with accounts are anonymous. Although there are certain circumstances when we do not value votes from an editor who is not logged in, they are perfectly free to open Deletion Requests. The fact that an IP opened the DRs does not change the fact that both images are infringements.


James L. Woodward
[copy from e-mail exchange ends]

Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Andrei Lilian was closed, but the kept images are still tagged with {{delete}}

I happened to notice that despite Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Andrei Lilian being closed a couple of days ago, the eight images that were kept are still tagged with {{delete}}. Is a bot supposed to eventually come along and remove the {{delete}} tag from the corresponding File pages and add the {{kept}} tag to the File Talk pages? Just curious. —RP88 13:19, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done Thank you for sharp eyes. Most Admins who close DRs use the DelReqHandler tool. There's a summary of all that it does at User:Jameslwoodward/Commons notes for administrators. In complex closings like this, with some kept and some deleted, it or the Admin using it (me) can sometimes miss part of what is needed.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:51, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to your notes page, it was interesting. —RP88 16:01, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Disney Junior Logo.png

Jim, I think you seriously erred in closing Commons:Deletion requests/File:Disney Junior Logo.png. Not only did you raise an issue unmentioned in the discussion, but I think you're off-base on it anyway. No matter how "aggressively" Disney protects the mouse-ears (and you haven't provided any evidence thereof), the shape is uncopyrightable, period. Even if Disney protects it as a trademark, that's a non-copyright restriction. We maintain a number of images that include the mouse-ear motif: File:Mickey ears on sign.jpg, File:Playhouse disney logo.jpg, File:Inducks.png, File:Disney comics.png, File:Disney-infinite-copyright.svg. I would ask you to reverse this decision and undelete the file. Thanks. Powers (talk) 14:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I note that none of the images you cite have been through a DR here, so who knows where we would come out? Also, of course, wp:Other stuff exists applies to your comment.
Perhaps I was sensitized by Commons:Deletion requests/File:"Appreciate America. Come On Gang. All Out for Uncle Sam" (Mickey Mouse)" - NARA - 513869 - cropped and tidied.png which you may not have seen.
Bottom line, though, I'm open to the possibility of a change here. I'd appreciate it if you would look through the DR I cited and come back here with any comments that might occur to you. Thanks,      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Interesting; I'm not sure I understand the problem with the image in the DR you linked, as I had thought that "character" copyrights were usually held to be literary in nature. A drawing, on the other hand, is simply that, and Disney must rely on trademark law to protect against inappropriate uses of drawings of their characters that have fallen into public domain. However, all that said, I feel it's irrelevant to this case, as the tri-circle "Mickey" symbol is far, far simpler than an actual drawing of Mickey Mouse. The copyright office would laugh at any attempt to copyright that triple circle. Trademark is Disney's only protection here, not copyright. Powers (talk) 19:51, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done OK, I undeleted and reopened the DR.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:13, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Cyrus cilinder.jpg

Per your closure of Commons:Deletion requests/File:Cyrus cilinder.jpg these following 34 additional images that rely on the same permission and have the same flaw need also to be deleted for the time being until we get a clear answer from OTRS. Ajbpearce (talk) 17:08, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I deleted 20, which were all there were under your link.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:34, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Apologies, the remaining 14 were/are on the second page of search results (default is 20 per page). If you click my link again and then click "next 20" - you will find the others :) Ajbpearce (talk) 19:30, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
I guessed most of that, but I assumed that after the first twenty had been deleted, that the second batch would turn up on the first page, so I didn't even look to see it there was a second page.
My guess is that the search index is not updated immediately, so that it "shows" the first twenty in the list, but when it goes to actually show them, realizes that they no longer exist and doesn't put them up. That's in contrast to a User Contributions list, which is updated immediately.
Anyway, ✓ Done      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:08, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Undeletion request File:Biberschwanz-Doppeldeckung.svg

Hello Jim, could you please undelete this file? When I started the deletion request it was because the file that I uploaded first contained some significant errors. The third uploaded version worked well, so I removed the deletion request from the file page, but I didn't notice that the request was still active somewhere else. I'm sorry, my mistake. Best regards, --Mätes II. (talk) 22:39, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:56, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Undeletion request File:Lala Hardayal 1294.GIF

Hellow Jim This was an image taken by me from a book सरफरोशाने वतन Sarfaroshane Vatan published in 1999 by Swaraj Bhawan Bhopal (India). This book does not have any copyright. This image is freely released by me in the public domain. This image was uploaded by me in wikimedia commons. This is a historical document which should not be deleted. I had also given a note on the discussion page of Har Dayal even then this image was deleted. Since I am in this organisation for improving it if the persons like you would not help me it will jeopaedise my interest in the organisation. I hope you will certainly help & guide me. I tell you I am still a learner at the age of 64 & do hope to learn something more. With regards, Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)Krantmlverma (talk) 15:15, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I assume that you mean File:LalaHarDayal1294.gif. Please remember that spaces and capitalization are significant in Commons file names.
As you say, the image was taken from a book. Contrary to your assertion, however, almost all books have a copyright. While it is possible that this 1999 book is PD, it is highly unlikely and you would have to prove it by either citing the license page in the book, or having the author use the procedure at Commons:OTRS.
I also caution you that the words
"This is an image ... created by me through my Nokia mobile electronically",
are not correct. The image was created by someone else, either the author of the book, or someone in the past. You had no part in its creation, but only in copying it.
We certainly do not like to delete valuable historical images, but their value to WMF projects does not take precedence over their copyright status -- images that are not free will be deleted.
It is possible that you could use this in an article in WP:EN with a fair use rationale. That is the usual solution for situations where there is no free image of an important person.
Another possibility is to show that this image was first published in India before 1951, as the copyright rule there for photographs is 60 years after publication. Please note that this will require more than saying "since the subject died in 1939, obviously it was published before 1951". The burden of proof is on you and will generally require the name of the publication and the exact date.
Finally, I should add that threats of leaving, such as
"Since I am in this organization for improving it if the persons like you would not help me it will jeopardize my interest in the organization"
will tend to reduce the cooperation you get from colleagues here. Most of us try to be reasonable and be helpful to new users. Polite requests (which yours mostly is) get far more help than threats.
There is much to learn on the technicalities of copyright around the world -- I am four years older than you, and I am also learning every day.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:01, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
First of all I beg your pardon for my words which hurt your sentiments, actually it was not my intention at all.
Secondly I thank you very much for guiding me on the score. Certainly it will improve my skill.
Please guide me further whether I can copy any image published in my book of which I am the copyright holder and upload it here after improving it electronically or not because all these revolutionaries have died and their rare photos which I have collected from various sources, either from their relatives, friends or from the very old newspapers, periodicals or books.
I will be highly obliged Sir!
With all regards,

Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)Krantmlverma (talk) 16:54, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Do I understand correctly that this image appeared in a book which you wrote? Did this book have a regular publisher or did you print it yourself? That is important because a regular publisher would have done the necessary copyright clearance to determine the status of all the material in the book.

If that was done, please share it with us so the we can know why your publisher believed that you could use this image in your book.

If that was not done, then I caution you that your book probably infringes various copyrights. Images collected from friends and relatives would still be under copyright in most countries. Images collected from old newspapers, periodicals or books might be OK, depending on where they were first published.

To keep this image, as I said above, we will need to know when and where it was first published. As I also said above, this will require more than saying "since the subject died in 1939, obviously it was published before 1951". The burden of proof is on you and will generally require the name of the publication and the exact date.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:42, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Most of these images have been published in old newspapers, periodicals and books. What I have done, is that I collected them from various sources and included in a book written by me. It was a troublesome task for which I left the job & approched the Govt of India, put a proposal before them & my work was honored. I was awarded senior fellowship in the field of Hindi literature in the year 2002(plz see Dr Krant gets fellowship). My regular publisher (Praveen Prakashan Delhi) published the book under ISBN 8177831224. He has also published my 11 books till date, of which I am the copyright holder.Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)Krantmlverma Krantmlverma (talk) 09:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
OK As I said above, your publisher probably had someone clear the copyright on everything that appeared in the book -- that would be standard practice for a responsible publisher who did not want to get sued. All we need here is the same information that your publisher used to assure themselves that the image was not subject to copyright.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:01, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
May I upload these files again with the revised information? Or some other image of the same person derived out my Nokia mobile would suffice? Please guide me. I will be highly obliged.Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)Krantmlverma (talk) 16:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
No. When we have determined that the image is PD, we will undelete. Uploading it again wastes Commons resources and is a violation of policy. You have not provided any of the information that is required, which I described twice above. Again, where and when was the image first published? Without that, it cannot be kept on Commons.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:08, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me Sir! This image was published in a book सरफरोशाने वतन (en SARFAROSHANE VATAN) by Swaraj Bhawan Bhopal (M.P.) in the year 1999. When I went Bhopal in connection with my research on the literature of Indian revolutionaries I got this book from there. I utilised its meterial as a reference in my book स्वाधीनता संग्राम के क्रान्तिकारी साहित्य का इतिहास (en.Swadhinta Sangram Ke Krantikari Sahitya Ka Itihas) ISBN 8177831224 which was published in the year 2006. Reference of above book सरफरोशाने वतन (en SARFAROSHANE VATAN) is given on page no 825 (Part-III). This image of Lala Hardayal is also given in black & white on page no 848 (Part-III) of my book स्वाधीनता संग्राम के क्रान्तिकारी साहित्य का इतिहास (en.Swadhinta Sangram Ke Krantikari Sahitya Ka Itihas). Since Lala Hardayal expired on 4 March 1939 obviously his photo/image might have been published in India before 1951 (in between these years). Therefore there is no harm in publishing his image and releasing it in public domain. Because this image has been deleted by your goodself, it is not possible for me to replace/change desired information on its description page. Now it is upto you to decide this matter, what I had to say, I have spoken it here. Thank you very much for the patient hearing. With regards, .Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)Krantmlverma (talk) 05:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Again, without being able to say when and where the image was first published, we do not know whether it is PD or not. "Might have been published" does not meet our standards. It is up to you to show that it was published in India before 1951 or is otherwise PD.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Flag issues

If you have a question about any flag issues or images in general, go ahead and ask me and I will let you know. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 18:06, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

For example, I am seeing constantly being up and up because of Fry. Now, I remember taking part in a small discussion at saying the colors we had for this current image is very dark. I thought it used a special set of colors, but not it was just taken from the CIA World Factbook. I only found one link at that even talks about the colors of the flag, which is used in conjunction with the EU flag. I don't have anything precise in the terms of colors, but I will try and look soonish. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 18:13, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I left him a message on his talk page which he promptly deleted to try to explain that Commons doesn't care whether the flag is valid or not -- that we keep all flags that are anywhere near correct simply to avoid wasting times on discussions such as his. It costs us nothing to leave the decisions to the editors at the WPs and to outside users. Since we don't know which expert is right, we keep both.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:24, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
I try and be that expert, but I understand your feelings. I told him about my feelings for the Libya flag situation that waiting is ideal and it is not going through. Only if he know what gravity the Commons has on all projects. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 02:00, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
As I am sure you recognize, both you and Fry sound like competent experts. I would be inclined to pick you over him, but only because you are reasonable and actually understand and support our policies while he does not. But that does not prove anything about your knowledge of flags.
Therefore, as I have repeatedly tried to tell Fry, we have a rule that says that we do not pick between experts -- we keep both. His failure to understand that rule and the reasons for it are very frustrating.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:34, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
Being an admin and being a normal user, especially at a project like this, is the most important than any other project out there. Any change here will affect scores of projects and that is something that is not seem to be clicking with him yet. But I will try and see what could happen soon. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 16:52, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hackethalstraße Hannover Brink Hafen Bushaltestelle Wohlenbergstraße Hinweis auf City2Click.jpg

hi jim,

i kind of started the following comment a few days ago and only remembered it today when i saw your {keep} in the dr :). so, for the lack of a more suitable place, here's my (updated to reflect your decision) take on this, perhaps you're interested:

while i agree that the reason given by joku is incorrect, i do not quite agree with the final decision. first, i would change "if it is in one place for its entire anticipated life" to "if its purpose as perceived by an objective viewer is a permanent display" (c.f. bgh [2002?] - "verhüllter reichstag"). stuff like graffiti or snow figures is generally considered to fall under this provision based on the argument that its purpose is to be there for, you say it, its entire life. but i'd argue that there is a difference between those and advertisement posters like this. while graffiti will eventually be painted over and snow figures will necessarily melt away at some point, this is not true for such posters. they usually are at their place for a certain amount of time (and after all, advertising company only pay for a limited time), and will eventually be removed -- but in this case the removal happens on purpose (by the "Verfügungsberechtiger" -- can't come up with a good translation) and is not just the consequence of some external factor such as nature (as with snow figures) or another home-owner's will (as with graffiti). as far as i can see, the vast majority of legal commentataries would agree here (see, for instance, vogel in schricker/loewenheim, 4th. ed., § 59 (16) and Ernst, Zur Panoramafreiheit des Urheberrechts, ZUM 1998, 475, 477 for "advertisements on advertising columns"; obergfell in büscher/dittmer/schiwy, gewerblicher rechtsschuz, urhg § 59 (4) for "works temporarily displayed for the purpose of decoration or advertisement in shop windows or show cases in shopping malls, subway stations or revolving doors of publicly-accessible buildings [...] and also advertisements on advertising columns [...]"; disagreeing: dreier/schulze, 3rd. ed., § 59 (5) for "advertisements on billboards or advertising columns", but only because they are finally "pasted over or destroyed on removal" -- however, this shouldn't be true for advertisements like the one we are discussing here!).

just my two cents. cheers, —Pill (talk) 00:06, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

You may well be right -- I don't read German, so that the subtleties of German case law are difficult (Google isn't good for subtleties). I've reopened it. Please comment there.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:20, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Hunt's Barbecue image

Hi James, I see where you had deleted this image ==> File:Hunts-Barbecue-Sauce.jpg but someone has re-uploaded it. The person who reintroduced it to the Barbecue sauce article stated that the debate was still ongoing but I can't find an open deletion discussion for this (I do believe it should be deleted). Am I missing something?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 14:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Hello -- haven't noticed you around on Commons for a long while.
The new upload, by Martin H., is a version with the photograph on the label pixelated, which eliminates the copyright problem. There remains the question of whether the new version is out of scope, but since Martin believes that it is in scope, I am not inclined to reopen the DR.
The question of whether to use it at Barbecue sauce is not our concern here. Both the question of the free product placement and of whether the pixelated image is useful can be debated there.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:23, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm on English wiki most of the time but I do need to get some more image work done and uploaded. I missed my chance at getting good Fall pics as we are past our peak and the leaves have been coming down. :)
I hadn't noticed the pixellation on the label. I'm looking for the discussion(s) nonetheless because I'm wondering if someone is socking and trying to look into it further. If there is none other than the one from when you deleted it then I'm perplexed by a user's comments on . Sorry to trouble you. Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 15:01, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
No trouble at all -- in your thinking about it, please note that Martin H. is a long time, highly productive Commons Admin, so I would be very surprised if he were somehow involved in socking.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:56, 6 November 2011 (UTC)


I don't understand your deletion rationale at the subject DR, the file had a single comment in favor of deletion that was not based in any policy and was responded to by the uploader (User:Dominic) and myself. The file was superior to the alternative version which you kept.--User:Doug(talk contribs) 17:28, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

First, please understand that Commons:Admins delete about 1,100 images a day -- five of us do half of those -- so we necessarily work fairly quickly. If I have made a mistake here, we can fix it easily.

I looked at the two images side by side (I have two screens). The deleted file is 2,000 x 1,353. The one I kept is 3,000 x 2,030. As a rule when we have two versions of the same image, we keep the larger one, hence my decision. My comment was intended to make it clear that the deletion was as a duplicate, not for reason in the nom -- all caps is frowned upon (notwithstanding your comment), but the NARA all caps should be addressed globally, not one at a time.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:42, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi James. I think you may have misunderstood the situation here. The one you deleted is the one uploaded from the institution's master file and is, by definition, higher quality. You also deleted the version that had the full metadata from the catalog record without even copying it over. There are also a hundred thousand files with the NARA naming convention, so I don't think it's a great idea to go creating inconsistencies like this. At the very least, we should delete the other duplicate and upload that file over the one you deleted originally (though, as I say, the one you deleted is from the original scan, so it's not really inferior). Dominic (talk) 18:01, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
I agree with Jim here. The deleted file was of inferior quality. The issue is moot now, as a I have created a basic restoration with minimal compression from the master file. Yann (talk) 18:46, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
My main point is that we shouldn't be using the file duplicate process to achieve file renaming by fiat, especially in cases like this where you're creating inconsistencies in a mass upload and the naming convention should discussed by the community. And we still need to restore the complete metadata. Dominic (talk) 18:52, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
Are you both happy with the outcome here? If so, I'll leave it.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:58, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Er, no, I'm not. :-) The file I uploaded was from the National Archives' master file from the original scan. It has the full metadata and it was using the standard naming scheme. Whether or not we want to change that, it should be done en masse, not by creating one image out of thousands out of sync with the rest (including the TIFF version of this very image). The older file should be deleted as the duplicate, the one uploaded by the upload bot should be restored, and Yann's should be marked as a derivative. Dominic (talk) 18:06, 7 November 2011 (UTC)


I see that you closed Commons:Deletion requests/File:NYCS-line-black-concourse.PNG as keep. While I'm not very familiar with Commons' deletion policy, I know that on en.WP, if the author of any file requests its deletion, it will be deleted, no questions asked. Given that the uploader of the file in question agreed with its deletion in the DR, shouldn't it be deleted? Train2104 (talk) 00:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons rules are quite different. While we may, on occasion, delete a page at the request of the uploader, particularly if the request comes very soon after the upload, our general rule is to keep the page, unless there are other reasons (copyvio, out of scope, etc.) to delete it. This comes mostly because we are a repository for users both on and off WMF projects and a deletion leaves off-WMF users with no quick way of verifying that the page was once freely licensed. We also do this because we have had a number of semi-professional users who have tried to use Commons to advertise their work and then take it down from Commons if it begins to sell. All of this relies on the fact that original license for the work is irrevocable.
There are some users who, almost by reflex, want to delete raster versions of files that have produced as SVGs. That is generally against policy, as there are users outside WMF who prefer PNG files. Since no file is ever actually deleted -- merely made invisible except to Admins -- it costs nothing to keep a file, so why not do so?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:56, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Sukumar Ray

Hi, didn't you intend to delete File:Sukumar.jpg in closing this request? Its deletion template still links to the discussion you closed. Regards Hekerui (talk) 20:32, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done Thank you.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:20, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Plantel Chile 2.png

Please take care about rest of other file mentioned in request. Same for Commons:Deletion requests/File:ScAD.jpg. Thank you. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

They would be less likely to be missed if you listed them in bullets, instead of inline, like this



Unlikely to be own work: small resolutions, missing EXIF. EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:58, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of File:Robertomagi2.jpg and File:Robertomagi.jpg

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Robertomagi2.jpg Commons:Deletion requests/File:Robertomagi.jpg Hello! I'm just wondering what I can do to bring back the pictures File:Robertomagi2.jpg and File:Robertomagi.jpg. I sent two mails to OTRS regarding the ownership of the pictures, but I understand that it could take some time to get processed there. So if you could help me in any way, it would be very kind of you.

Best regards /Anders — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flanders (talk • contribs) 21:40, 8 November 2011‎ (UTC)

As one of my colleagues explained in the DR, it is not you who must send the e-mail, but the photographer who owns the copyrights. It is very unusual for a professional photographer to transfer copyrights -- not possible in some countries.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The pictures are taken by a professional photographer many years ago for Roberto and he has paid for these pictures and the right to use them. However, the photographer is not alive any more so having him sending an email to you would be impossible. Instead I sent an email from Robertos webpage using the email adress If you check the website you will find these pictures under in a gallery. They are also used in the flash content on the site and are also uploaded at and What else can I/we do to get them approved?

Best regards /Anders — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flanders (talk • contribs) 00:33, 9 November 2011‎ (UTC)

Based on those facts, unless you can find the photographer's heirs, I don't think Commons can keep them. As I said above, it is very unusual for photographers to transfer copyrights to clients -- and in the past, it was even more so. You can appeal my decision at Commons:Undeletion requests, if you wish.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:08, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Novák Zoltán.jpg

Please take care about rest of user uploads. Thank you. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:47, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Arnold Schwarzenegger Terminator picture

Hi. My name is Alberto Alerigi Jr and someone uploaded the picture Arnold_Schwarzenegger_T-800_(Madame_Tussauds).JPG‎ from my Flickr account. I´m okay with that, but the problem is that another someone said that this picture was taken in US when I took that in London, at Madame Tussauds. If you want to delete it, fine, but use another explanation for that.

This picture is marked as: "As this image was shot in the US, where there is no FOP exemption for non-buildings, this image violates the copyright of the wax sculptor Warfieldian"

It was not taken in the US and by the time I took the picture there wasn´t any warning at all saying that I couldn´t put the picture on the Internet. Neither the name of the artist was displayed on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18:42, 10 November 2011‎ (talk • contribs) (UTC)

In August, Warfieldian nominated it for deletion because he thought it had been taken in the USA. When it became clear that it was taken in London, he withdrew the nomination and I closed it. Therefore, as far as Commons was concerned until today, the matter was closed.
Now you have nominated it again for deletion. Please go to Commons:Deletion requests/File:Arnold Schwarzenegger T-800 (Madame Tussauds).JPG and tell us why you want the image deleted. You licensed it on Flickr under a free license, and there appears to be no reason why Commons cannot keep it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Simas.jpg

Good evening James

I'm afraid but your point of view regarding the rights of personal photos is completely wrong! When someone has his picture taken, the Photographer can't publish the photo if the depicted person doesn't agree. Example: The above mentioned photo was taken in a photographic studio and paid by the depicted person. In that moment the rigths of the photo belong to the depicted person, only she can authorize its use. Similarly, if you go to a studio photographer to take a passport photo, after paying only you can use the picture. The photographer can not, under any circumstances, sell your picture to third parties. Another example: A bank is robbed, hours after a journalist takes a photo to the facade of a bank at the very moment you are going forward. If the newspaper published the photograph unless you have given permission, you can put a newspaper over the process and easily win it. This is called, in legal terms, the right to the good image and is a protected right in Portugal, by the constitution and the civil code. In the United States is the same, otherwise this news could not happen ( in this case a photo agent forgot to make a contract that the model give up from the rights of the image, therefore his going to be sued! Regarding the above mentioned photo, the depicted person, General Simas Machado pass away in 1927, so his rights over since 1997!
Boni-pt (talk) 22:37, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

First, I do not understand why you think this point is relevant to the subject discussion. It is a discussion of copyright, not personal rights. In a very limited number of countries -- Germany is the best known -- a person can control the use of his photograph in places such as Wikipedia. In the United States and almost every other country, that is not true -- we can publish any photograph of a USA person that was taken in any place where the person had no right to expect privacy. The case you cite is use of a photograph of a person in advertising, which is a very different matter. As far as I know you must have the subject's permission to use a photo in advertising everywhere in the world. IN the USA, your bank robbery example is not correct. There is no right to privacy for any individual for images taken in a public place.
Second, personal rights do not affect copyright. While it may be true that the photographer who took General Simas Machado's picture cannot publish the photograph without the General's permission, it is equally true that the General or his heirs cannot publish the picture without the permission of the copyright holder. It is very rare now, and almost unheard of in 1917 for a portrait photographer to transfer copyright to the subject. Selling copies of the image to the subject and his family was the way that commercial photographers made money.
My position in the subject debate is carefully laid out there. Without evidence
  1. that the General purchased the copyright,
  2. that your donor is the copyright holder, and
  3. that your donor is willing to give us an acceptable license,
we cannot keep the image.
While you are certainly welcome on Commons -- we encourage all contributors, I'd like to suggest that before you try to teach Denniss and me about copyright, you consider that we are both active Administrators here with well over 100,000 edits between us. I have made many more contributions to Commons today than you have made in your entire activity here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your answer which I don't agree (If we were going to do your careful position 50% of the material in Commons needed to be deleted). Regarding the donor to give the acceptable license, for me she is just a phone call away. But.... I dont't think that you accept a simple OK, naturally you have to require that the rule of law should be applied and that means that his necessary to present to commons the following documentation: the enabling of heirs processes of the daughter of General, the granddaughter and great-granddaughter. The statement of the current and only heir signed with a notary certified signature together with a genealogical tree attached with certificates of birth and death. All this bureaucracy (15 days of work necessary)for a 100 year photo from a impossible to determine origin!!!!!!!!!
Regarding denniss. In your case, you stated well your position, now and before. In Denniss case all the questions I've posed got silence for answer, and he may have 100 000 uploads, but that number and the position of administrator doesn't give him permit to act like god and ignore the rules of a good education, and I refuse to be polite with uneducated people like Denniss!

Boni-pt (talk) 10:21, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

After consulting my lawyer he sent me the rule of law inline with european legislation and respecting the Bern convention.
If you read the number 2 of article 165, in the case of ANY commissioned photo. As the case of a personnel photo that you take and pay (Contract/commission) in a studio) the copyrigth belongs to the portrayed person. Like in this case, the portayed person died in 1927 therefore the copyright expired in 1997, the photo his now in the public domain!
I advise also the reading of the number 2 of article 167 and the number one of article 168.
The below mentioned articles are from the code of copyright and related rights, Decree-Law No. 63/85 of March 14, and amended by Laws 45/85 of 17 September and 114/91 of September 3, Decree-Law No. 332/97 and 334/97 , both of Nov. 27, and by Laws 50/2004, of August 24, 24/2006 of June 30, and 16/2008 of April 1) and international (Bern Convention and the Universal Copyright Convention, 1886, 1952, revised 1971). and has to be enforced in all Countries that undersigned international treaty.
Article 164 - Conditions for protection
1 - For the a photo to be protected is necessary that the choice of their subject or the manner of their execution can be considered as a personnel artistic creation of its author.
2 - Do not apply the provisions of this section to photographs of writings, documents, business papers, technical drawings and things alike.
3 – Are considered to be photo frames of cinema films.
Article 165 - The rights of the author of a photographic work
1 - The author of the photographic work has the exclusive right to reproduce, broadcast and put on sale with the restrictions concerning exhibition, reproduction and sale of portraits and subject to the copyright of a work reproduced in relation to photographs of works of art.
2 - If the picture is made in implementation of a contract of employment or on commission, it is assumed that the right referred to in this article belongs to the employer or the person who placed the order.
3 - Any person who uses for trade photographic reproduction must pay the author an equitable remuneration.
Article 167 Mandatory indications
1 - Copies of a photographic work shall include the following:
a) Name of photographer;
b) photographs of works of art, the name of the author of the work photographed.
2 - can only be repressed as abusive to reproduce photographs containing the details above, the author can not, in the absence of such information, require the fees as provided in this Code, unless the photographer to prove bad faith of who made reproduction.
Article 168 - Of the Reproduction of a commissioned photography
1 - Unless otherwise agreed, the photograph of a person, when this photograph to be executed by order, may be published, reproduced, or sent to play by the person photographed or by his heirs or transferees without the consent of the author photographer.
2 - If the photographer's name appears in the original photograph should also be indicated in the reproductions.

Boni-pt (talk) 10:21, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Your incorrect accusations against Denniss, repeated in a different form above, are getting close to the point where someone will ask whether you can work with the rest of us in a cooperative manner, or whether you should be banned. You only attempt to communicate with Denniss began
"Are you analphabet or just ignorant???? Or you should clean your glassses, or in case you don't wear glasses - get some ! If you don't now hao to read Portuguese, learn the language."
Our rules do not require Administrators, or anyone else, to respond to abuse. It does not surprise me that Denniss simply erased your entire message.
I also note that you have solicited keep opinions for the subject discussion. While it is certainly permitted to ask another editor to express his opinion in a DR, it is not permitted to ask for him or her to vote on your side.

Please read Article 165 (3)
"Any person who uses for trade photographic reproduction must pay the author an equitable remuneration."
That means that as long as the image is under copyright, any commercial user must pay the author (or his heirs). So while the subject of a commissioned photograph has certain rights, he must pay to use them. That is incompatible with Commons, as we require all images to be free for commercial use.
So that brings us back to the life of the copyright. You say:
"Like in this case, the portayed person died in 1927 therefore the copyright expired in 1997, the photo his now in the public domain!"
That is incorrect. While the copyright may have transferred to the General, the term of the copyright is still measured by the life of the author. If that were not the case, I could extend the life of the copyrights on my own images by transferring them to my 2 month old grand-daughter. As far as I know, there is no country where the term of a copyright depends on the life of anyone other than the creator (in some cases, it is a fixed term, but nowhere is it the life of the subject or copyright owner). Since we do not know when the author died, we do not know if the image is free.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
I totally disagree with your interpretation, because nr 2 of the article if the photo is comissioned (ordered) ythe rights of the author (the photographer) are transferred to the person who placed the order, therefore the person who placed the order aquires the rights of the author stated in nr 1.
And the american law (Act 92, chapter 2) his far more in-depth than the portuguese one. While in Portuguese law all other works under copyrigth, the author remain with the copyrigth, in the US, all the works produced under a working contract, or under commission the copyrigth is transferred to the employer or commissioner.
U.S. Copyright Law - Title 17 of the United States Code, chapter 2, section § 201 - Ownership of copyright
(b) Works Made for Hire.—In the case of a work made for hire, the employer or other person for whom the work was prepared is considered the author for purposes of this title, and, unless the parties have expressly agreed otherwise in a written instrument signed by them, owns all of the rights comprised in the copyright.
Boni-pt (talk) 14:02, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to continue this discussion here. If you want to make points, it should be at the open DR, not here. While I try very hard to be patient with inexperienced users, there are limits to my patience. I note, for the record:

  • While your account has been open since 2007, you have fewer than fifty edits on Commons, twenty-five on WP:EN, and none elsewhere in WMF.
  • You were careless several times in your handling of edits in the file description, and did not review them after you saved them. If you had taken a few seconds to read the file descriptions after you posted them, you would have realized that something was wrong. This carelessness gave rise to false accusations against Denniss.
  • You were abusive to Denniss on his talk page, to the point where he simply erased your post, as any of us might have.
  • You have spread your false complaints to several other users with which I and/or Denniss had contact recently.
  • You have solicited keep vote(s) for your upload.
  • You are attempting in a DR to change well established Commons policy. While it may certainly be possible that policy needs changing, a DR is not the place to do it.
  • Discussing an open DR on several (at least four) User talk pages is simply a waste of time and space. The discussion belongs in the DR.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:18, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

uneducational, but used photos

Hello, I've talked to you before about this topic, so this DR might be interresting for you.--Avron (talk) 20:33, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I shrug. I probably should have deleted it last March, but we certainly have more important issues.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:59, 13 November 2011 (UTC)


Hi there; I submitted this DR long ago and left it for others to determine its merit, but I think perhaps the reasons for the images' deletion were not as self-evident as I assumed. I'm considering re-nominating the images with more specific reasons for their deletion, but don't want to beat a dead horse. I was wondering if you knew of any similar or relevant discussions around the commons you could point me toward?```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daburow (talk • contribs) 00:19, 14 November 2011‎ (UTC) (The signature character is a tilde (~) which is shift (`) -- you hit the right key, but you need to push down the shift key also).

I think that fundamentally Prosfilaes and Cirt covered the issue pretty well at the DR. See also the discussion at Commons:Fan art.
Remember that while almost all representations of Micky Mouse have a copyright (or infringe on Disney's copyright), that is because Mickey Mouse is a cartoon character created from scratch. An image of one of the many actors who have played Doctor Who, even in costume, will have its own copyright, but is not necessarily a derivative work because neither the likeness of an actor, nor the costume have any copyright. If it is taken on a set, then it may infringe, depending on the level of creativity of the set. If the Doctor is peering closely at a sonic screwdriver, then the image may infringe on the copyright in the sonic screwdriver - ordinary tools are utilitarian objects and do not have copyrights, but sci-fi tools are considered sculpture or toys, both of which are non-utilitarian.
Note also that this is a different case from a representation of the Doctor at Mme Tussaud's -- the wax figure is a sculpture and therefore has its own copyright, so we keep only the Mme T figures that are in London, not in the USA.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:55, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I did quite a bit of searching for a relevant policy and found COM:FAN did come the closest. I just found it odd that Commons considers photos of the toys ([34] and [35]) and screenshots of the broadcast would be violating BBC's copyright, but photos of the characters during filming do not.
I guess what I'm not understanding is how the reproduction of the characters by the photographer is not considered copying. The point that I drew from the Potter examples was that even a drawing of the actor in costume would be a copyvio if not considered wholly original. The discussions I've read in fan art seem to suggest that the closer a drawing gets to the realized portrayal of said characters in the original medium, the more outright is the copyvio, and set photos get pretty darn close to the original.
That aside, COM:CB#Costumes_and_cosplay has been revised to reflect new guidance regarding the copyright status of costumes and may be reason enough to revisit this issue. In either case, your help and opinion is very much appreciated. Daburow (talk) 22:33, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
My apologies -- I don't think Commons:Fan art was a useful reference. Let me take another try at it:
Movies have a copyright because each frame is a photograph, a creative work. Therefore a screen shot infringes on the movie's copyright.
Similarly, toys have a copyright because they are not utilitarian objects, but have creativity -- think of them as sculptures. Therefore an image of a toy is a derivative work. I hung a {{delete}} on an image of a Sonic Screwdriver today -- something clearly created out of a prop or toy designer's imagination, therefore a photograph of it is a derivative work.
But, human characters do not have a copyright. A photograph of Daniel Radcliffe does not infringe on any Harry Potter copyright, even if he were in Harry Potter costume and makeup, because there is nothing in Radcliffe or the usual Potter costume that has a copyright. (This assume that it is not a screenshot, but it might have been taken while the movie camera was running).
An image taken on a set might be a problem:
  • if the set itself were sufficiently creative to have a copyright and it were not de minimis in the image
  • if the character had a prop -- a wand with distinctive markings, for example -- that was creative enough to have a copyright
  • if the costume were not ordinary clothing, but rose to the point of sculpture -- Darth Vader and many other science fiction characters fit this possibility
The Harry Potter examples in Commons:Fan art are bad examples for your question because they assume that the drawing is made by a fan who has seen the movies but never seen Daniel Radcliffe in the flesh. A drawing of a movie character inevitably skirts close to a DW because its basis is in the movie. If the sketch artist were on the set, he or she could create drawings that did not infringe the Harry Potter copyrights, provided none of the three bullets above applied.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 02:47, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Receive the FSU Permission? - Albert_A._Murphree_-_FSU.JPG


FSU says they sent permission via the Wikimedia page you recommended on 11-09-2011. Are you able to confirm receipt? Thank you! Sirberus (talk) 23:48, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

DR File:Photo_eyes.jpg

Hi Jim, please could you have a look here Commons:Administrators'_noticeboard/Blocks_and_protections#Please_Delete_File? This was your discussion partner. ;-) Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 03:44, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

FYI, Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard#File:Photo_eyes.jpg russavia (talk) 11:35, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done Thanks, responded both places.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


Hi! I read Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Central_Jail_Faisalabad,_Pakistan_in_October_2011.jpg I think the author is the person who took the photo. He is the superintendent of the institution WhisperToMe (talk) 15:07, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't understand. Of course the author is the person who took the photo -- that is what we mean by "Author". The problem is that we don't have any evidence that the author, whoever he is, has given permission for the license here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:11, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Okay, what is the username of the person who uploaded the photo? WhisperToMe (talk) 20:17, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
The file says that it was Own Work and the Author was Tariq babur. However, there is no record that User:Tariq babur uploaded the image to WP.
This is not the place for this discussion -- I am not going to undelete this file because I do not have enough information to do so. If you want to discuss that possibility further, you should post a request at Commons:Undeletion requests.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 03:30, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
And I located the original EN upload location - Tariq babur originally uploaded it himself (I am a sysop on EN)
WhisperToMe (talk) 03:31, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


Пересечение 2011 в Переславле — how can I get the descriptions from the deleted gallery to add them to files? Thanks.--PereslavlFoto (talk) 16:01, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I see: you mean, a gallery cannot have text. Fine then.--PereslavlFoto (talk) 16:12, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

A gallery can have a sentence, or maybe two, but it is fundamentally a collection images and other media files. If it looks like an article and reads like an article, it belongs in Wikipedia.
Another way of looking at it is that a gallery is a convenience for people who are looking for images on a particular subject. The category may have hundreds of images scattered in many sub-categories, so a gallery is way of presenting the best images on that subject in one place.
To answer your first question -- I can e-mail you the text of the gallery -- please either enable your e-mail (on the first page of My Preferences at the top of every page) or send me an e-mail (link on the left side of this page with your e-mail address.)      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:27, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
(Thanks for clearing the issue about the gallery goals.) Could you please restore temporarily to somewhere? Or copy the text to some wiki-place?--PereslavlFoto (talk) 16:33, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
I would much rather e-mail it -- see above.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:37, 17 November 2011 (UTC), please. --PereslavlFoto (talk) 17:18, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Sent -- my mail reader may have had trouble with the Cyrillic -- please let me know.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks. I see everything is fine, so you don't have to trouble about encoding.--PereslavlFoto (talk) 17:31, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for the close at Commons:Deletion requests/File:State of Arizona v. James Arthur Ray, Case No. V1300CR201080049, Defendant James Arthur Ray’s Motion in Limine (No.9) To Exclude Testimony of Rick Ross.pdf and at Commons:Deletion requests/File:State of Arizona v. James Arthur Ray, Case No. V1300CR201080049, Defendant James Arthur Ray’s Response to State’s Motion in Limine re Witness Rick Ross.pdf. Much appreciated. ;) Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

You're certainly welcome, but no thanks are expected -- I do do around 80 deletions a day.
By the way, your reason may have been wrong -- I suspect that court filings of all kinds are PD unless specifically restricted by judicial order. I delete. However, Commons is a media repository, not a document repository, so they are out of scope.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 18:15, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Deleted Whole Alliegro Gallery??

Is there any problem to make contributions to Wikipedia? Now you spoiled the article. Will you explain why are you deleting an entire gallery so rudely? If your problem is the redirect as far as I can see, why you can't only delete the redirect, you have to delete an entire Gallery for Italo del Valle Alliegro, plus video? "No redirect" is a rule or something? Can't you just give a warning? Is that pleasant to you at any level?

Now, how can this gallery be recovered??

This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.

   * 14:28, 19 November 2011 Jameslwoodward (talk | contribs) deleted "Italo del Valle Alliegro" ‎ (Page dependent on deleted or non-existent content: content was: "#REDIRECT Italo Alliegro" (and the only contributor was "Caracazo1989"))

— Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk • contribs) 15:45, 19 November 2011‎ (UTC)

I deleted the gallery Italo Alliegro because it was out of scope. I then deleted all of the redirects which pointed to it because there is no reason to have a redirect to an empty page.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:58, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I want to recover all of the deleted pictures under "Italo del Valle Alliegro", would you mind to help to move those pictures there?

No. All of those images have been deleted as likely copyvios. You have been blocked for editing for a week.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:24, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

National Museum of the Union

Hi there, I get the point but I think you rushed a bit. I was about to add images today. As you can see in the history, I was working on it and on the corresponding categories just yesterday. Anyways, I think it would be nice to give a 24 hour notice before deleting something. I will work on the Sandbox till I am ready. Thanks. --Codrin.B (talk) 15:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Do you understand that I didn't delete it -- I moved it for its own protection to your sandbox? If I had not noticed your edit comment, I would have deleted it. So, putting it in your new sandbox was just a way of protecting it from our colleagues.
Experienced editors creating a new gallery without images happens maybe once a month. So changing our working methods to avoid this sort of situation wouldn't make sense.
By deleting new out-of-scope "galleries" almost immediately, we get a chance to warn newbies that they are wasting their time doing something that is not permitted on Commons. Waiting 24 hours would give us 100 "galleries" in the backlog everyday, but, more important, would waste newbie time -- you'd be surprised how prolific some people are doing the wrong thing.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:53, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


I was just wondering something, Jim. Do you think I have made some useful edits here on Commons? Fangusu (talk) 12:24, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Unless I missed one, all of the DRs that you began were closed "deleted" -- most of us are happy if we get 90%. Your images are not going to become Featured Pictures, but File:Sleeping Fawn Pug.jpg is a fun photograph and I suspect it may be downloaded off-WMF more than you know. I'm not sure where File:Reochord.jpg came from -- you might check to see that the source really is PD or licensed.
I'm not quite sure why you ask. Certainly I would be very happy to have you continue with your work here. Creating good new, valid, DRs is an important task. If you continue with good work, with several hundred DR nominations and several thousand edits, you could become an Administrator here. Since you are at about 25 and 130 now, you have some distance to go before that, but please keep up the good work.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:53, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

That's not notice...

I refer to this.

I may be misunderstanding your comment, but it appears that it has suffered from precisely the sort of lax overview I'm complaining about. It appears that you are saying that the files were tagged, so they could be deleted at any time.

That's not the problem. The problem is that the files were tagged very long ago, and I was not notified. So they expired, as the tags said they would. So far so good.

But then Dennis undeleted them so I could send ORTS messages. Which I did. And they were deleted again in spite of this.

Maybe I'm wrong, but from my perspective I'm trying my best to ensure that I do everything right. And yet in every case, in spite of pulling all the right levers, I've got a 100% failure rate in the last year. And all I get in return is comments like your own, which appear to display precisely the problem I'm complaining about, and an implicit "its your fault so stop whining".

Really, this process seems hopeless. ORTS' backlog is so long that the images are deleted before they are even examined. What am I to do?!

Maury Markowitz (talk) 17:20, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Forgive me for being brief -- I am just about to walk out the door to catch a plane and, as it says above, may not have Internet access for a week.
There were notices for five images on your talk page on November 7. The files were deleted on November 15. That appears to be good notice to me. If I'm missing something, please tell me, but, as I said, I may not see it for a week.
Remember, also, that restoring an image if and when OTRS permission comes in takes one click. If they are unavailable for a few days, please remember that we are a volunteer organization and our people resources are being pressed by the flood of new images.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 18:48, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Mickey Mouse image

Hi James, at the deletion discussion on the Mickey Mouse image you voted Keep, citing Carl Lindberg's opinion as definitive. You may be interested to know that Carl is now "heavily leaning delete" for this image. Perhaps you would consider re-evaluating the discussion in the interest of reaching a consensus on this. Thanks for your time! Kaldari (talk) 23:37, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for calling it to my attention but I have little to add to a highly technical discussion of a very fine point of US copyright law -- I defer to Carl on such things.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:04, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Wilhelm Busch

May you please respond at Commons:Deletion_requests/File:WilhelmBuschPriest1.png? Thanks.--Stephfo (talk) 22:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Responded there after return from vacation.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:23, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Albert A. Murphree - FSU.JPG

Hi Jim, in reference to Commons:Deletion requests/File:Albert A. Murphree - FSU.JPG would you like to have a look over the correspondence we have received from the university. I will be leaving some notes in the OTRS system under this ticket. russavia (talk) 06:43, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Note left here russavia (talk) 06:46, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I agree that the permission is insufficient. Frankly, that's what I expected -- I've had a reasonable amount of IP experience with large institutions and they rarely give CC-BY type licenses, despite their mission of educating the world.
If you take it further, note that both the fact that it is WP only and the fact that it requires a specific attribution location is unacceptable.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:51, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Jim, is there any chance you could perhaps take this ticket from me, given you've got some experience with these larger institutions, perhaps some contact to them, along with a modified template will help them along the way. Obviously it is up to those people who wish to host the content on Commons to do things right, but we should also be helpful as much as possible along the way. Thoughts? russavia (talk) 12:19, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
I became an OTRS member entirely because I was frustrated by a few incidents where the permission was obviously bogus, or didn't address the central issue, so that I could read the e-mails for myself. I admitted that in my request for membership. That's a long way of saying that I have never actually handled an OTRS ticket. I haven't learned any of the details of OTRS operations, so taking this over might lead to my asking permission from Julia Gillard.
I would be inclined to leave it to our uploader -- he is, I think, an alumnus of FSU and has some pull there. I'll leave him a talk page note with suggestions.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:30, 29 November 2011 (UTC)


What's the meaning of the message about deletion on my talkpage? -南中鼎金 (talk) 15:23, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

As it says, in several languages, you uploaded File:南京大學 徽.gif today. That file had been deleted on November 26. Uploading it again is a violation of policy -- if you want it restored, you must post a request at Commons:Undeletion requests.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:08, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

OK. Thank you! -南中鼎金 (talk) 14:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Permission for Deleted Images - File:Star Academy Winner 2008.jpg, File:Nader Guirat Crimea Music Fest.jpg, File:OxyMore.jpg

Hi Jim...I apologies for sounding inconsiderate in my message on the Administrators' notice board post, I had completely blocked out Thanksgiving weekend from my mind, thanks for calrifying the situation and for your response! As advised I went back and contacted the subject images' owner and he confirmed that he did actually send permission for all three images on November 14th to commons, however, he had referenced the URL of the images in his email, being the source, and not the commons link. He is prepared to send another permission to commons this time including the commons link as in above subject. Should I ask him to do so? And what would then be the next step for me to do in this case? Once again I appreciate your response and help on this and.....Happy belated Thanksgiving :) --Mona MG (talk) 05:36, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

No problem -- those of us who spend time on Commons make a lot of allowances for the fact that we are a multilingual, multicultural, global activity -- that's one of the reasons I like it here -- so I don't expect that everyone here is aware that many Americans took part or all of last week off.
Yes, I would suggest that if it is not too much trouble, you have the owner send another message to OTRS, specifically referencing the Commons file names of the images. That has two advantages -- it will be easier to match them up and it makes it very clear exactly what he or she is giving permission for.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Need rename some files - please, see discussions

Need rename some files - please, see discussions of this files:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mauser98k (talk • contribs) 06:22, 1 December 2011‎ (UTC)

First, I suggest you read Commons:File_renaming#What_files_should_not_be_renamed?. I am not sure that your new names are an improvement. While they may conform to the catalog number, they are less useful to the average user. I might change the first three, but not to the name you suggest. I would not change the remainder.
With that in mind, to request a file rename, please use {{rename}} -- Most renaming is done by editors with the file mover privilege, not by Admins. Using the rename template makes the process much easier.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:32, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
OK, thank you. I will try to explain my arguments to rename in English. I know English very bad ( My native language - Russian. I could not find the Russian-speaking administrator on Wikimedia Commons. --Mauser98k (talk) 16:41, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Your English is OK -- you might find it easiest to write your comment in Russian and then use Google Translate to produce English. Also, there are 11 Russian speaking Admins, see Commons:List_of_administrators_by_language -- EugeneZelenko, and George Chernilevsky are the most active at the moment.
The problem is that the rule that I cited above does not allow minor changes such as the ones you propose.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:49, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

your opinion please...

I suggested in Commons:Deletion requests/File:US_Navy 070503-N-1525H-009 Electrician's Mate Seaman Angela Sampson strips and spins wire on the number seven_high-pressure air compressor aboard the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68).jpg that we remove the seamen's name from both the description template for the image, and from the images name. I made that change to the description template. And, unless you know of a reason why I shouldn't, I will change the file's name from:


Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 23:01, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

While I sympathize with the subject's wish to not have her name on the file, I think she crossed that bridge when she joined the Navy -- certainly the file is on the Navy site and it's title won't change there. I am also skeptical that the request actually came from the subject -- we certainly don't know that. With that said, I don't object to changing the name, but I think it's pointless and somebody or some bot will almost certainly upload the file again, not realizing we already have it. But do it if you wish.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:00, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Your excellenet points talked me out of it. Geo Swan (talk) 04:36, 2 December 2011 (UTC)


Hi Jim, could you please quickly review the "surviving" files at Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Chocolate. Thanks! Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 01:49, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

You must be a real chocolate lover -- a lot of effort in these!
Clearly OK
Maybe, maybe not?
  • File:Jielbeaumadier ourson bouquet dor vda 2010.jpg -- OK, but at that size is it useful?
    • I I think it is better than nothing - the article talks about this brand.. if it is deleted from the article one day someone could nom. it for deletion - sure. --Saibo (Δ) 22:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  • File:6. Bitter 78percent 100g.jpg -- Congvang999 says "source = my computer" -- did the uploader actually take the picture? If so, then OK. If not, copyvio.
    • Well, the source is not very good, that's right (but the DR wasn't about the photos, so I did not try to find a way to kill them ;-) ). Btw: those botedits were reverted per my request at the bot owner's talk page since I do not regard "my computer" and "Own work" as equivalent at all.
      But unless there are other hints of copyvio (e.g. cannot find something in GI or TE) I wouldn't act. I have looked at his other uploads (also my computer) seem a bit suspicious but I couldn't find a source (also apparently reuses of one pic on vietnamese pages). Feel free to kill them somehow. ;-) --Saibo (Δ) 22:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Date = 26 August 2009
Source = Cropped by User:Saibo from File:DurianChocolateBoxes.jpg, which was own work of User:GuillaumeG, and which has been deleted for copyright reasons, see Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Chocolate.
Author = Image as above, package by Danson, a brand name of DR Gruop Holdings SDN BHD.
Since the file history before the DR was only the upload, why keep it?
Ah, well, I admit that this was a bit of overkill in the striving for transparency (of who uploaded what and who gave where permission). File:DurianChocolateBox_logo.jpg already was like you proposed above. I have deleted the orig version now. That on top: as the photo is now simply a repro photo of a 2d object it may not be copyright eligible anyway (PD-art). ;-)
Later I found another nice way: File:Kinder Maxi king - Logo auf Packung.jpg. Filename changed but the upload of the original version is fully transparent to everybody. --Saibo (Δ) 22:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm happy to do whatever you think on these, or reopen the DR with just the three files for general discussion.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! replies above. --Saibo (Δ) 22:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Looks good -- I should have thought about the method you used at File:Kinder Maxi king - Logo auf Packung.jpg -- I've done that before.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:56, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Yuet-Meng 2.png

i am the author of this picture which was based on another Wikipedia picture. if possible, could you plz send me the deleted picture personally by email?

i need its data to create a new one. thanks. --서공/Tây Cống/セイコゥ (talk) 18:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I would be happy to e-mail it to you. I will need your e-mail address -- I see that you have "e-mail this user" enabled, but I cannot attach the photo using that. If you e-mail me your address (using "e-mail this user"), then you can keep your e-mail private. And, please note that it is 6+ megabytes -- that is no problem for me, but it is a large file for some e-mail accounts.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


Did you edit my gallery using CommonsDelinker? FieldMarine (talk) 02:08, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Not directly. Although it is not a written policy, it is frowned upon to edit any page in another user's userspace without an explicit invitation, except to delete it for a valid reason.
Yesterday, I closed as "delete" a lot of Deletion Requests where the images were dinosaurs, including
As noted in the DRs, both images infringed the copyright of the sculptor and there was no evidence that the sculpture is PD for any reason or that you had the sculptor's permission. You can, of course, ask for reconsideration at Commons:Undeletion requests, but these appear to be pretty cut and dried cases.
The CommonsDelinker is a bot that automatically goes through and removes links to deleted images wherever they are used. I see that you have replaced those links. That's your choice, but they will remain dead links unless a UdR succeeds. You are an experienced Commons editor -- I think you understand that.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:29, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I would very much appreciate that you do not edit my galleries in the future. Thank you. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 15:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

As I think I explained in detail above, I did not edit your gallery.
As I also explained, my editing your gallery would have been a violation of our normal behavior.
To repeat, when an image is deleted, the CommonsDelinker automatically removes it from all places where it is in use throughout the whole project. Once the image is deleted, there is no way to prevent that.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:58, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


Commons-emblem-issue.svg File:USCG_Daymarks.png has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue.
Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

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Pratoprovincia 09:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Christmas tree vs. sculpture

I uploaded File:Hampden hubcap tree MD1.jpg just now, thinking of it as a Christmas tree. Further reflection makes me think it's really a sculpture, and therefore not eligible for Commons, at least not in the tightly-cropped form of this image. I'd value your opinion on the subject (and am fine with deletion if you feel it isn't suitable). Acroterion (talk) 18:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you -- it looks like a sculpture to me. I hesitate to just blow it away, but I will if you give the nod. Or you could do a DR and see what others think.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:06, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Go ahead and delete it: having meditated a bit more, I'd call it a sculpture of a tree, and therefore not usable. I think I have an alternate image of the hubcap tree in the context of the neighborhood, which would be permissible as incidental inclusion. Acroterion (talk) 21:09, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done} Interesting image -- sorry to see it go, but I think you're right. Your straightforwardness is appreciated.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:17, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
That whole street's interesting, in a wacky John Waters-Baltimore way. Thanks for the second opinion. Acroterion (talk) 22:09, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


Please take a look back in this thread that you participated in. Rd232 is making claims about "proving" that there is TOO in Turkish law, and using that as a way to condemn a highly active and highly valuable user. Rd232 in the page he refers to as having proved it makes it clear that there is no certainty in the law. This is a direct contradiction of his previous statement and shows disruption. The user has been really sarcastic on multiple pages, accusing others of being hostile while bullying, making personal attacks, etc., and is really being self destructive and destructive for the community as a whole. It is topped off with this nasty incivil claim: "Perhaps you should be less keen to enter so conclusively into discussions you evidently don't know the background of." which is contradicted by his own verification before that there is no clear threshold of originality ("So there's no clear definition of a threshold of originality to be found in statute"). This is not something Commons needs, especially not in that thread. Ottava Rima (talk) 04:55, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

On advice from two admin, I started a thread on him. Sigh. Ottava Rima (talk) 05:40, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
JFYI the "valuable user" made deletion requests like this one. Ottava, if you feel you have time, you can go to meta: There are plenty of files even without a license or source. Someone has to tag them. -- RE rillke questions? 08:26, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you both. I agree that Takabeg is not perfect, but he has done a lot lot work -- probably more than all of us combined -- on WMF projects and at least his last twelve DRs, which I listed in the discussion cited above, seem to be right on target.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:59, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Category for deletion

Hello James, I found a couple categories that have a bad name. I created the correct category and tagged the old ones for deletion (here is one, i.e.). The question is, have they been correctly tagged for deletion? I never tagged a category for speedy deletion before. -- Blackcat (talk) 18:59, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

The tagging is correct, but I think that Category:Guiness Premiership 2009-2010 is a better name than Category:2009-2010 Guinness Premiership -- in general it is better to put the name first and the year later, so that in any list, it will sort by the name. I don't know if there is policy on the subject -- we seem to use both, see Category:Ford vehicles by model year.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:21, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok, for me is good either way, but calling the Guinness beer with only one "N" was actually a crime :-) -- Blackcat (talk) 12:54, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Very sorry, I should have noticed that -- I drink enough of it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:16, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Incomplete DR

Hi, Jim. Could you control File:B-4 203mm榴弾砲.jpg in Commons:Deletion requests/File:B-4榴弾砲.jpg & Commons:Deletion requests/File:T-46 tank-2.jpg ? Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 19:11, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I deleted the first yesterday, but the second should probably run for seven days.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:14, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


US Army Photograph - SC 373215 KOREA. I thought it's public domain because of it's one of the US Army photographs. However, the website says © 1996 - 2011 by Sam Lisker. All rights reserved. What do you think of it ? Public domain or not ? Merci. Takabeg (talk) 08:48, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

The web site has a general "All rights reserved" at the bottom of the page, but under the photograph, it says "US Army Photograph - SC 373215 KOREA". That is the only thing that counts. The correct template would be {{PD-USGov-Military-Army}}.
A site's claim of "All Rights Reserved" means nothing. If the material on it is PD or ineligible, then the claim is incorrect, as it is in this case. If, on the other hand, the material has a copyright, then adding "All Rights Reserved" adds nothing -- with or without "All Rights Reserved", the copyright is there.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 09:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Merci. Takabeg (talk) 10:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


File:Fjellstedt Israels läger.jpg was changed (by You) from Category:Exodus to Category:Book of Exodus. The page has nothing to do with 'the book of Exodus', rather with 'the book of Numbers'. But it is even more closly related to the Exodus, (the travel of 40 years). Are you familiar with any category of that kind? -- Lavallen (talk) 18:52, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I made an effort to clean up the sub-categories in Category:Books of the Old Testament. Most of them were named Category:Book of ..., as in Category:Book of Lamentations, but a few, including Exodus, did not have "Book of" as part of the category name, so I created new categories and moved the files.
If you think that File:Fjellstedt Israels läger.jpg would be better put in a new Category:Exodus or, perhaps, Category:Exodus of the Jewish people, that would be fine. Perhaps it should also be in Category:Book of Numbers?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:03, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
I am no fan of adding red categories, so 'Book of Numbers' is enough for me this far. -- Lavallen (talk) 09:23, 7 December 2011 (UTC) ('Exodus', 'Numbers' is more international than 'book of ...', since those names are valid also in Swedish, Latin and some other languages, but that is a completely different Q.)
Right, but unfortunately they also have other uses in English, see Category:Numbers. You can create Category:Exodus of the Jewish people, or I will if you want.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Jim. Is {{PD-USGov-DOS}} valid for images in the website of ? Some samples: arrc.nato, I want to upload this image, this film etc... Takabeg (talk) 01:34, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Probably not. At the site's policy page, it says,
"No material produced by NATO is to be sold, used for outside advertising or promotional purposes of any kind."
Since we require permission for commercial use, that's a strong NO. You may, however, find some images on the site that are credited to the US military. They would be PD.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:48, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

J'ai l'autorisation de B-noa d'importer et de publier mes photos mais je n'y arrive pas !

Bonjour, j'ai l'autorisation de B-noa d'importer et de publier mes photos mais je n'y arrive pas ! Pourquoi ?

Je vous invite à publier vos photos sur Commons puis de les mettre sur les articles concernés. AlpYnement vôtre, B-noa (d) 5 décembre 2011 à 22:16 (CET)

Cordialement --Marc Fatou (talk) 12:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

See Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by M.fatou. There is no evidence that you have the right to license these photographs. While you may own copies of the images, you probably do not own the copyright to them.
If you believe that is incorrect, please tell me why, one image at a time.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:42, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Some help needed

I 'd like to thank you for your paying attention to the topic "Some help needed" ( ), but it seems your help is needed again. The User:Alofok with whom we are having this small disagreement has come back and deleted once more the redirect links in the Volkswagen up!-SEAT Mii-Skoda Citigo categories in an arbitrary manner. Not only did he make these undo edits but he also continued this to even more Wikimedia commons categories like what he did in Category:SEAT Alhambra-Volkswagen Sharan, Category:SEAT Exeo-Audi A4 B7 and Category:SEAT Arosa-Volkswagen Lupo commons categories. Could you please help this out one more time? Thanks again(LeonCR (talk) 20:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC))

Please see User_talk:Alofok#Edit_Warring and keep me informed if he creates more problems.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:19, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I believe this is getting hilarious. Here we go again with the same problem. Look at the alofok's response ( : " Blablabla... an administrator mustn't have the hunch about this topic. An admin isn't a god. alofok* 09:41, 8 December 2011 (UTC) " This came after I tried to explain to him why he 's wrong with arguments coming from the most official sources. He also made his comment on your side this time, but the issue is I don't know what to do: he deleted once again the cross-reference links in the commons category Category:Škoda Citigo, even if another user tried to restore those. I also don't know what he meant by saying " (f***) " in the edit summary of his last edit. (LeonCR (talk) 11:18, 8 December 2011 (UTC))

I have given him a one day block and another warning for his change at Category:Škoda Citigo. Please keep me informed of his actions after the block expires.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:39, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I love you two. Yes, LeonCR really needs help. But somewhere else. FU 13:43, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Roma personalities.JPG

Why exactly did you delete this image? --Olahus (talk) 20:36, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Collages are often very difficult. Most of the images in the collage are CC-BY or CC-BY-SA, but you did not include attributions on the description page. In addition, File:Pantoja.JPG does not exist on WP:EN or Commons, so there is no ability to determine its status.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:09, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
So, the attributions on each image must be included in the description of the collage? Could you show me please an example of collage with a right attribution? --Olahus (talk) 13:15, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
File:Lupus-Collage_Ankara.png is a perfect job of attribution. File:Athens Montage 2.jpg is a little simpler, but also entirely OK. More important is that File:Pantoja.JPG does not exist.
Thank you alot! --Olahus (talk) 21:03, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Minecraft pictures

Your actions at Commons:Deletion requests/File:KufaKuja.jpg and the usefulness of your lighthouse photos are discussed at Commons:Deletion requests/File:StaplersDirtHouse.png. You might wish to comment the deletion request. --Stefan4 (talk) 12:23, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:43, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Please have a look

Hallo Jameslwoodward, Something strange is going on with File:Istituto Don Milani 6.jpg. Because you are more informed about the situation, I hope you can take a look at this file. I restored the last edit back to your edit, as I consider is as strange. Thanks! Greetings - Romaine (talk) 00:39, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Romaine. The editor is a question mark. On the one hand he is creating a lot of useful galleries of Italian villages, but on the other hand he has done several things like this.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:50, 9 December 2011 (UTC)


Excuse me, Mr. James, can you confirm, please, these two images? Really thanks.

-- Giunco (talk) 9 decembrie 2011 08:05 (EET)

I'm sorry, but I do not understand the request. They appear to be OK, both for copyright and for scope.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:47, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Gerhard Gundermann

Hi, in this moment I'm uploading some pictures in the Category:Gerhard Gundermann. Please restore my article. --Blueser2805 (talk)

I did not delete Category:Gerhard Gundermann -- I deleted the empty gallery page Gerhard Gundermann.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:39, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
yes, i mean the gallery ;-) --Blueser2805 (talk) 15:55, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
I just left a comment on your talk page, because I thought you might not see it here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:02, 9 December 2011 (UTC)


This close is wrong. I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding: the image concerned is not the book cover. In fact, because this is not a book (it is a short story), there is no book cover. This is a poster, specifically created by the artist to illustrate this Wikipedia page. It should not be deleted. An OTRS message has been sent. We have been doing our best to jump through all the relevant Wikipedia hoops. --Jbmurray (talk) 16:33, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

(1) Aha. I understand now. Unfortunately, the result is the same -- we do not keep personal works of art which have no relationship to the original subject of the article. An illustration made fifty years after the article was written may be very nice, but it is far out of scope for Commons.
(2) If you disagree with this, you may, of course, post a request at Commons:Undeletion requests.
(3) We have more than 11,000,000 images on Commons and more than 25,000 people have edited here in the last month. Apparently there are many people who do not find our "hoops" onerous.
(4) All we ask is that uploaders provide evidence that they have the right to upload the image as PD or CC, and that the image is in scope. So far, this image has failed both -- the latter as detailed above, and the former because a forwarded e-mail from a gmail account will not satisfy OTRS. We, quite reasonably, I think, require that the OTRS e-mail be from the copyright holder and be from a traceable domain -- that is why OTRS messages are private.
     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:57, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
  1. OK, that would be a different reason.
  2. Well, the close was wrong. At the very least you need to go back and change your summary, no?
  3. For people new to the process, I can assure you that the hoops involve can seem both onerous and mystifying.
  4. Whose email should not be from a gmail account? The original artist's? Should he get another account if all he uses is gmail? Again, we are doing what we can to satisfy the requirements, but however reasonable they may be they are not necessarily obvious.
--Jbmurray (talk) 02:16, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
  1. Yes.
  2. Please see the first two sentences of my comment to JEA below.
  3. We hard try to be kind to newbies -- certainly our documentation and instructions are not all that they could be. As someone who has recently found them difficult, you could help by improving them.
  4. Generally we try to prove that the person sending the e-mail is actually the person who owns the copyright. Obviously a message from a gmail account proves little and a forwarded message which comes from a gmail account proves even less. Therefore the OTRS volunteer will look for a message from an account that obviously belongs to the creator. In a case like this, where Ricardo Garbini is said to be a professional graphic designer, he probably has a web site. The e-mail could then come from that domain, or the contact address on the web site.
I regret that there was a misunderstanding of this image from the beginning. The DR focused on the copyright status of Garbini's work without discussing at all whether it was in scope. There was also a misunderstanding over what Garbini had created. It looked to me if he had simply copied a book cover. If JEA had included the information that appears in her post-closure comment at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Las ruinas circulares.jpg in her initial comment there, the DR would have focused in the right place and we could have avoided this extended discussion.
  1. Again, if the reasoning for the close was wrong (as it rather clearly was), then surely it cannot stand.
  2. Your response to Jessica below says a) we are too busy to look at these things in depth and b) we seldom change our mind. Which is hardly encouraging.
  3. If you try hard to be kind to newbies, it's not clear. The deletion discussion set off on the wrong foot with its invocation of "flickrwashing," a term which a newbie could hardly be expected to understand. It was, in short, a conversation among initiates that excluded newbies from the outset. The fact, however, is that these initiates were fundamentally wrong because they didn't bother to read either a) the image description or b) the article from which it came. It looked to you as though Garbini had simply copied a book cover only because you didn't want to take seriously what a newbie was saying. And it seems that you don't want to acknowledge this inconvenient fact.
  4. If you want all emails sent to OTRS to be from non-Gmail accounts, then one would have thought you should say that at Commons:OTRS. But there is no such indication. It looks rather as though there is a whole set of rules and regulations that are remarkably opaque to public view.
This is all rather disappointing on many levels. I would have expected better. --Jbmurray (talk) 03:43, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

(1) The DR is a closed discussion, right or wrong. The appropriate action for an incorrect DR closure is to open a UdR, which has been done at Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:Las_ruinas_circulares.jpg. We do not change closed DRs, as they are a record of the discussion. (2) Not quite. It does indeed say that we are too busy to look in depth at 1,100 deletions a day. I wish it were otherwise, but we simply do not have anywhere near enough active volunteers to do better. Your (b) is off the mark, however, because it mixes a small group of "we" with a very large group. I would put it as

"Admins are barely staying ahead of the flood of work and therefore are too busy to look at these things in depth and b) the 25,000 strong community as a whole seldom overrules decisions made by Admins at DRs."

(3) I have already expressed regret for the handling of the DR and the several misunderstandings there. I'm happy to do so again -- it was thoroughly botched by three experienced users. However, until JEA's post closure comment on the DR, there was no clear statement there of exactly what the image was. If there had been, I would have closed it for the reason given above and below -- that it is personal art and out of scope. This image has generated about 3,500 words of discussion in five places, about half of which I have written. If we truly were unkind to newbies, discussion would have ended much sooner.

We do use jargon because, again, we are all working very rapidly. I note that if you do a Commons search on "Flickrwashing", the first hit explains the term in considerable.

(4) The OTRS process is, to some extent, deliberately opaque. We are trying to sort out the small minority of uploaders who deliberately attempt to deceive us from the vast majority who are simply trying to make a contribution to Commons. The requirement for a non-anonymous source is not hard and fast, but the rule against forwarding is. I have already suggested that if you find our documentation unclear, it would be a much appreciated if you improved it.

Again, my apologies for the handling of the DR. We usually do better. That does not change the fact that the image is out of scope.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Jim, thanks for the apologies and above all for taking the time to respond to our queires. If the image is indeed "out of scope" (as you put it), I accept that. I'll add another 2c. worth to the undeletion discussion and leave it at that. I would try to help improve the documentation, except that it's hard when I don't entirely understand what it should say. Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to explain things. --Jbmurray (talk) 17:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment:Dear Jim,

Jut 2 points. On the DR above, the uploader--who is a newbie and unfamiliar with wikicommon's procedures--posted a comment or question after you closed the DR. Perhaps you could briefly sent a message to JEA outlining your reasons why you think that image cannot be kept? I assume she E-mailed the author of the uploaded image for permission and one shouldn't make her feel that she wasted her time as her question here sounds reasonable.Leoboudv (talk) 07:00, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I think I've dealt with that above and below.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:08, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Second Question

Secondly, what would you do with these this DR and DR case? They were apparently used in a non-notable wikipedia article that was deleted shortly after and are orphaned. To me, there are two key points: the 2 female subjects are likely not very notable and, more importantly, there is no metadata for these images. If they were higher resolution images, they might be more useful. The 7 day time period is already up. If you think Commons can keep them, feel free to close the DRs as keep rather than delete. Its your call, of course. Best Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 07:00, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Already one keep and one delete by others. I think the two closures were probably OK.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:10, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks Jim for your reply. I didn't know the second person was a member of a pop I guess she passes the threshold of notability. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 19:53, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


Given that the article from which this image was deleted is in Spanish, I am wondering whether those who nominated this image for deletion and whether the person who deleted it, actually read the article and the description attached to the image. There has been much misunderstanding with regards to the image, its origins, and its relationship to the article in general. What I would like to know is whether those persons involved in the nomination for deletion and the actual deletion have a working knowledge of Spanish. JEA (talk) 07:20, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

  • Thank you, Leoboudv, for your comment above. It just seems that everything was decided with very little consultation or discussion. We are all volunteers and contributors to this shared resource. JEA (talk) 07:34, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Another question. What is the difference between the image created by Mr. Garbini, who is a graphic designer, and the following image created by Terry Dodson and included on this other page on Wikipedia? See: JEA (talk) 15:02, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Please understand that Commons Administrators delete approximately 1,100 pages every day. Five of us do half of them and we have an increasing backlog. There is simply not enough Admin time available to give very careful consideration to each page. That is why we have Commons:Undeletion requests. With that said, though, I should add that only about 1/10 of 1% of deletions are reversed on appeal, so the initial decision is almost always correct. That is little comfort, of course, if your page is one of those that is incorrectly handled. If that turns out to be the case, I am sorry, since I, and my colleagues, try to get it right the first time.
As to your questions. If I understand it correctly, the subject illustration was drawn recently, specifically to illustrate Wikipedia articles whose subject is a short story that was published in 1940. The WP articles are:
Since Ricardo Garbini does not appear to be a notable illustrator or to have a particular connection with Jorge Luis Borges, I think that his work falls in the area of personal art, which we do not keep. Hence my comments above.
While, as is clearly set forth on my user page, I do not have a working knowledge of Spanish, that doesn't seem to be relevant here.
Finally, the illustrations at Black_Cat_(comics) are illustrations from the actual comics, and are hosted on WP:EN, not Commons, with a Fair Use rationale. If the original publication of Las Ruinas Circulares in Sur was illustrated, those illustrations would have been welcome here if they did not have copyright issues. The subject work, though, is far from that.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:40, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

  • 1) I cannot speak for the English Wikipedia page called "The Circular Ruins" as I have not been a contributor to that page. I have only contributed to the Spanish version. And I might add that the two articles are very different in scope and sequence. 2) The image created by Ricardo Garbini was not created specifically for Wikipedia. I saw his image, which is a graphic rendering of the themes of the short story by Jorge Luis Borges, on his Flickr page, and contacted him for his permission to include the image on the Wikipedia article that I (and Jbmurray who has written above) created. 3) The justification given for the deletion of the page was that Mr. Garbini "is not the author of the book" and "does not own copyright of the book cover". However, and as I stated on my talk page, "Las ruinas circulares" is NOT a book, it is a short story. It does not have, and never has had, a "cover". Mr. Garbini's only claim in his e-mail is that the image belongs to him. When I uploaded the image to Wikipedia, I stated that this image is a poster inspired by the short story "Las ruinas circulares" written by Jorge Luis Borges. This is where I think a working knowledge of Spanish IS relevant. 4) Finally, it appears to me that the image created by Terry Dodson is not original to the fictional character Black Cat. The character was created in 1979 and the original artist was Keith Pollard. Terry Dodson did not begin his career as an illustrator until 1991. 5) I have posted an Undeletion request. JEA (talk) 16:49, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


Hello again, Jim

Do you think that I am qualified enough for OTRS role now? I want to be an OTRS volunteer to confirm permission as well as deal with queue permission-commons and photo-submission. Please give me some advice for this. I have asked Herby but he has no idea about this. Thank you very much. good luck--Morning Sunshine (talk) 16:41, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Qualified, yes. But perhaps you need to put a little more time between your failed RfA and exit and new rights, I think.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:56, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Article instead of category

Thanks for a quick reaction, I've been just writing EK request ;-), cheers Nova (talk) 13:01, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Month+ Old Image Deletion Request

[36] -- can you take a look please? Thanks. YehudaTelAviv64 (talk) 11:18, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done Deleted as a copyvio.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for taking a look at it. YehudaTelAviv64 (talk) 15:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Qnaveedm Question

Heloo james, well i think i need to ask u an explanation for deleting my upload of ROYAL MAKKAH CLOCK TOWER pic uplloaded by my, which was my own work!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qnaveedm (talk • contribs) 18:19, 11 December 2011‎ (UTC)

File:Royal Makkah Clock Tower(by Qazi Naveed).jpg

The building is recent and, therefore, the architect's copyright is still in force. Although some countries have special exemptions for this situation (see COM:FOP), Saudi Arabia does not, so your image infringes that copyright and must be deleted.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:30, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Marianolamboas Question -- Commons:Deletion requests/Marianolamboas

James, the photos are mine, Alejo and Matias CORRAL, are both my brothers!!! The photos are from home, someone they are tooked from Alejo and Matias their self, and they give it to me, others are my mothers, and someones i took it my self and someones, a friend of the family, who gave it to me. So please I insist, put the photos up again!!!! please!!! Thanks, Marianolamboas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marianolamboas (talk • contribs) 02:54, 12 December 2011‎ (UTC)

I deleted 13 of your images three days ago. It is obvious that some of them (for example,File:Matias 93.jpg) are not "own work", as claimed. Seven other uploads of yours have also been deleted. Several of your uploads today also appear to be copyright violations. Once we have found that you make incorrect claims, it is hard to determine which are OK and which are not.
If you would like to take this further, please make comments on the list below as to which images you still claim are your own work. Note that images taken by your brothers, your mother, or friends are not "own work" and must either be uploaded by them or be licensed by them using the procedure at Commons:OTRS.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


Hi. Could you please delete a duplicate File please ? I made a mistake there. See File:Carol Moseley Braun (2).jpg . Thx --Gary Dee (talk) 11:05, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done Next time just use {{duplicate}}.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:40, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


Vous avez supprimé l'image d'un bâtiment public parce que figure devant celui ci une sculpture. Ce faisant, vous avez mal interprété la loi française sur le droit de l'auteur de la sculpture. L'image supprimée ne figure pas une sculpture mais un bâtiment public. La présence d'une sculpture devant ce bâtiment rend accessoire la représentation de celle ci et la représentation de celui ci porte inévitablement la représentation de celle ci. Sauf à donner une image de la sculpture elle même pour elle même, la loi invoquée ne s'applique donc pas. En outre, il ne s'agit pas en l'occurrence d'une sculpture protégée par un doit d'auteur mais d'une reproduction qui appartient à la mairie de Boulogne. En reproduisant l'image sur Wikipédia, vous ne risquez donc pas plus que la mairie elle même, qui, elle, connait le droit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk • contribs) 23:08, 14 December 2011‎ (UTC)

Both the architect of the building and the creator of the sculpture have a copyright in their work which has not yet expired. The subject image infringes both copyrights, so it is a problem in two ways. Please read COM:FOP.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:40, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

4 DRs

Dear Jim,

I don't think Commons can kep any of these 4 DRs here:

Thank You in advance, --Leoboudv (talk) 02:16, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done I have deleted all four of them, but I am not sure why you brought them here -- they all would have been deleted in the ordinary course of events by me or one of the other Admins who goes through the DRs.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Thank You. Sometimes, these DRs last 8, 9 or 10 days. I don't know why. Perhaps someone misses them. So I decided just to be sure since they were uncontroversial and the uploaders either did not protest...or did not make good argument to keep the photo (as in the Istanbul Tourism Award) which is certainly a derivative image. Best Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:58, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
Since a DR must last at least seven days and five of us close more than half of them, it should not surprise you that occasionally some of them go a day or two over the minimum.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 03:50, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Deleted image

Re: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Al-Andalus (norsk).jpg

Have you any idea if we can find out what happened to the original image? File:MuslimOccupation.jpg --Tokle (talk) 15:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

There has never been a file on Commons with any of the names:
all of which are different file names. There was a file on WP:EN File:MuslimOccupation.jpg, which was deleted on June 9, 2006. I'm not an Admin on WP:EN, so I can't tell you what it contained.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
The image File:MuslimOccupation.jpg itself was deleted at a time when images were not restorable. Anyways, the author lied about the license and the source of the image. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 17:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok. Then isn't that reason enough to have my translation of the image deleted too? If the original one was breach of copyright then the Norwegian one is as well. --Tokle (talk) 10:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes and I had that image deleted. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 05:39, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Babur and his warriors visiting the Hindu temple Gurh Kattri (Kūr Katrī) in Bigram.jpg

Just to inform that i requested the deletion of this work per arguments present in here. Tm (talk) 01:36, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

✓ Undeleted When a case is as obvious as you presented it at the Undeletion Request, there is no reason to post an UnDR. You could have just asked here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 03:39, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


I didn't know that a photograph of a poster, even when the photo is CC-BY-SA, was illegal on Commons as the poster is not licensed and hence its copyright has been violated. Thank you for educating me. --Tinpisa (talk) 10:13, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Careful -- it depends on where it is -- the rule changes country by country. See COM:FOP or User:Jameslwoodward/Sandbox2 which is not yet complete.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:16, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
Precisely. Read this carefully. (I'm sure you realise that the photo was shot in India.) Note that Section 2(c) of the Indian Copyright Act states:
(c) "artistic work" means-
(i) a painting, a sculpture, a drawing (including a diagram, map, chart or plan), an engraving or a photograph, whether or not any such work possesses artistic quality;
(ii) work of architecture;7 and
(iii) any other work of artistic craftsmanship;
The poster in this photo would be covered by (iii) any other work of artistic craftsmanship and it is located in a public place or any premises to which the public has access (as can be seen from the photo). Thanks for the link! Have a nice day! :)Tinpisa (talk) 14:43, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand which way you are reading this. Posters fall under (c)(i), not (c)(iii) as they are essentially a drawing. The case law makes clear that a work of artistic craftsmanship is work done by artisans -- mosaics, textile works, and the like -- not posters. We generally refer to such works as 3D, even if the third dimension is small, as opposed to works on paper or canvas. Therefore, as my table makes clear, posters are not covered by FOP in India or any of the other major Commonwealth countries.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:09, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
The Indian Copyright Act does not state that artistic craftsmanship is work done by artisans -- mosaics, textile works, and the like -- not posters; in fact, it does not define artistic craftsmanship. The Oxford dictionary states
"craftsmanship, n.
a. The performance or occupation of a craftsman; skill in clever or artistic work; skilled workmanship.
b. more generally: Exercise of craft or art."
A painter or poster-maker would be covered under b. Producing a poster or painting also involves exercising art. Hence, posters would definitely be included in the FOP of 3D works in India. I am not concerned about other Commonwealth countries right now. Another thing, the sentence Indian law is modelled on UK law, and in the absence of any specific case law to the contrary it is reasonable to assume that the rules will be similar. See the United Kingdom section for more details. here is clearly OR and synthesis, and must be removed. However, I leave it to you. Tinpisa (talk) 11:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Not on my reading of the law. Your reading of the law does not follow the rules of construction. Section 2(c)(iii) is limited to "any other work of artistic craftsmanship" -- that is, works of artistic craftsmanship that are not included in (c)(i) and (c)(ii) and, therefore are not "a painting, a sculpture, a drawing (including a diagram, map, chart or plan), an engraving or a photograph...[or] work of architecture".

We can certainly argue whether the portrait in the poster is a painting or a drawing, but the question is moot because both are included in 2(c)(i) and therefore are not covered by the FOP exception.

Or, in other words, it may be a work of artistic craftsmanship, but it is not included in "any other work of artistic craftsmanship", and is not covered by FOP.

My comment about the Commonwealth is simply that the statues of Britain and its major former colonies are similar - in fact the UK copyright law and the Indian law are very similar, sharing many words and much of the section structure. Australia, Bangladesh, Canada, Hong Kong, India, Ireland, Jamaica, New Zealand, Singapore, and the UK all share a box on my table. They respect each other's case law.

Your penultimate sentence above misses an important point. Commons is not WP:EN and Original Research is not prohibited. We defer to experts here and the sentence to which you object was written with community input and deference to those of our members who are expert in the subject.

Finally, you are raising a question about well settled practice on Commons -- hundreds of cases in the UK and tens of cases in India. If you seriously want to propose that Indian law allows an FOP exception for posters, the place to do it is Commons talk:FOP, not here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:23, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:TLC LA.png

You did not address the issue I brought up, which is that there is background texture unrelated to the lettering. See COM:TOO#Commons: "the texture makes it eligible for copyright." And I will kindly ask you to opine at a deletion discussion before closing it as keep without any comments whatsoever. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:56, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

In general, I comment only where:
  • there is a newbie or other person I don't recognize involved who might need a full explanation of a point which apparently confuses them,
  • my decision is based on something that was not discussed in the DR,
  • there are significant arguments on both sides of the discussion, or
  • a participant in the discussion has said something that is wrong.
I usually comment only on the first a series of related or similar subject DRs.
I did make a closing comment on this one. Apparently I was not clear enough. In this case, where the letters are blank figure on a colored ground, for copyright purposes, the font is not just the letter, but the whole red tile. Thus the background that concerns you is actually part of the font.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:31, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

If that is the case, I would be happy to see you change COM:TOO, as clearly this policy is wrong, and boldly undelete the file that was wrongly deleted. Magog the Ogre (talk) 14:13, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand what file I should boldly undelete.
As for COM:TOO, I think it is badly flawed, but it has a few strong supporters, so changes would be a battle. I fight only for things that really matter to me -- otherwise, I would spend all my Commons time fighting. Its flaw is that it ignores the fact that corporations in the USA don't care about copyright on their logo because the logo will also be trademarked and trademark is a much stronger protection -- it lasts forever and there is no such thing as PD-text-logo on the trademark side. This has the effect that the case law on copyright on logos is largely special situations where it is risky to generalize. I say this having been the officer in charge of IP in about 15 US corporations -- in every case we trademarked the logo -- in fact the name and logo were picked to ensure that we could get a registered trademark (R). I have never registered a copyright on a logo, although I have done so for many other things, mostly software and white papers.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:30, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

OK: well is your argument that the image is free or that the copyright holder will not bother with it? Because Commons:Project scope/Precautionary principle precludes the argument that they won't sue: "arguments that amount to 'we can get away with it'[...] run counter to Commons’ aims: [e.g.,] the copyright owner will not bother to sue or cannot afford to." I am, however, sensitive to someone familiar with the business atmosphere. Magog the Ogre (talk) 17:30, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Magog, I'm still lost. What image are you talking about? I completely agree with the five points of [[[COM:PRP]]. While, as I said, I don't think most corporations care much about copyright on their logos, an argument based on that violates PRP point one.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:12, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Protection of file

A file I uploaded has been protected by you because of what you described as "an edit war". As a result of this, I am now unable to edit the page and add a source to the file which is needed to prevent it from being deleted. Would you be so kind to unprotect the file so that I can add the source in the infobox? Mythic Writerlord (talk) 22:49, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I assume you mean File:Hendrick Lucifer.jpg. Given your short, difficult record here, I am not inclined to unprotect the file. If the source you intend to add is that you name in Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hendrick Lucifer.jpg, I share Calliopejen1's opinion, and see no reason to add that as a source on the file.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:09, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
I do wish to add the source to the file (something I should have done much earlier). I will not engage in any edit warring or any similar behaviour. Thing is, no matter what you think of the quality of the source, there still is one and I plan on adding it. That way at least people wouldn't be able to say the file has no source. If you do not wish to unprotect the file, maybe you could add the source for me instead? That way I would still be unable to edit the page myself. Mythic Writerlord (talk) 10:44, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
No, sorry. I see no reason to be complicit in what I think is your fabrication of a source.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


Was it too hard to wait a day or two until we get a better results? nothing will happen if we tried to talk with the image uploaders, and another 50 hours will not make sense after the images stayed here for 8 months, especially when taking in account that a very main article with very high importance and in more than 30 languages have been left without any images for the demonstrations, you can see how the articles looks like now, it would worthes more than 3 days of discussion in my opinion --عباد ديرانية (talk) 16:12, 17 December 2011 (UTC).

I don't think you're going to achieve any satisfactory solution. It's clear that the images were taken by multiple people and I think that the chances that we can actually get licenses from them is nil. That's particularly true because some of them will have legitimate security concerns about being associated with images on Commons. They can probably be uploaded under Fair Use on WP:EN, but they can't stay here.
If it turns out that I am wrong, we can restore them with a few keystrokes.     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:19, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Standish Backus

Jim. I have a question about paintings of Standish Backus. I'm planning to upload some works from the website of Naval Historical Center. File:Backus, This was Hyuga.jpg was uploaded with the tag {{PD-USGov-Military-Navy}}. He drew these works as duty (he was commander of the USN). But he died in 1989. Had copyright of these works expired ? Takabeg (talk) 07:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

"At the start of the Second World War he commissioned as an Ensign in the Naval Reserve in 1940, and became an active duty officer in 1941. He spent most of the war assigned to Net and Boom Defenses in the South Pacific. He transferred to a special Graphic Presentation Unit in 1945 and spent the last year of the Pacific theater as a combat artist. By the end of the war he had obtained the rank of Commander. He left active service in May 1946 and taught at the University of California, Santa Barbara from 1947-1948. He returned to active duty in 1955 to 1956 to travel with Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd to Antarctica as part of "Operation Deepfreeze" to record images of the exploration."
It seems to me that only works made during 1945-46 and 1955-56, when he was on active duty in the Navy and his job was to be an artist qualify as {{PD-USGov-Military-Navy}}. Even work made while he was on duty 1941-1945 as a net and boom defense officer do not qualify. For those works that do qualify, the date of his death is irrelevant -- they were PD from the moment they were drawn.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 10:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Merci. Takabeg (talk) 11:35, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Paintings from Japan

What do you think of A (Yoshio Shimizu, 1891-1954), B (Renzo Kita, 1876-1949) (Same image in Naval Historical Center, in Commons) ? The National Museum of Art of Japan prohibits unauthorized use. But legally copyrights of works of both painters had expired and these works are public domain. (See {{PD-Japan}}) Takabeg (talk) 12:35, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I think they are, as you say, PD-Japan, but you would have to add {{Not-PD-US-URAA}} because they were not PD in Japan on the URAA date. As it says on that template, we are still trying to figure out what to do with the URAA. And, of course, this assumes that the works were first published in Japan. Since they were done during the occupation, perhaps they were first published in the USA? That would probably make them PD-nonotice.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:44, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

File:British Israelism.jpg

The file British Israelism was not intended as a work of personal art, but as an illustration to the WP article of the subject. As you deleted it, you may not have noticed that it was in use on enwp. Project scope says that "A media file that is in use on one of the other projects of the Wikimedia Foundation is considered automatically to be useful for an educational purpose". I hope that you will agree to undelete it. --Jonund (talk) 09:15, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I am afraid that is not correct. You added the image to British Israelism on November 28, 2009. It was removed from the article on March 1, 2010, with the edit comment "Removed photoshopped image: completely contrived and uniformative, not encyclopedic."      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:36, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
I see. I haven't previously been aware of its deletion on WP. I'd like to contest that edit. But how can I do it, when the image is deleted? Perhaps a temporary undelete, while we discuss it on the WP article talk page, is reasonable? --Jonund (talk) 20:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Frankly, I think the file is out of scope both on Commons and on WP:EN as personal artwork. Since it was deleted from the WP:EN article 21 months ago without your noticing it, I am also skeptical of your commitment to the article. If you want to pursue the matter, I suggest you post a request at Commons:Undeletion requests.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 21:12, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm a little astonished that you don't find the image fit as illustration for the WP article. Neither do I understand how my commitment to the article is relevant to the question whether the image is inside the scope of WP and Commons. But I hope that others will see it differently, and that you will understand my view. --Jonund (talk) 18:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
Again, we very rarely host personal art of any sort. Clearly at least one editor at WP:EN agrees with me. But, as I suggested above, you are free to post a request at Commons:Undeletion requests.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 19:03, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Ekaterina Gueltzer -- File:Geltzer.jpg

Bonjour Jameslwoodward,

Je profite que tu comprend le français pour t'écrire dans cette langue.

il y a quelques jours, tu as supprimé le fichier Geltzer.jpg que j'avais inséré dans la contribution en français Ekaterina Gueltzer. Je comprends bien les raisons de cette suppression. Par contre, je ne comprends pas pourquoi cette photo est toujours dans la contribution en anglais Ekaterina Gueltzer. Wikipedia en anglais n'a donc pas les mêmes règles que Wikipedia en français ?

You can answer in english language.

--Jacques Ballieu (talk) 09:35, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I know nothing about the rules of WP:FR, so I cannot completely answer your question. I do know that there are significant differences between the rules of the various language WPs, so perhaps WP:FR is different. I also know, as I said in my closing comment, that while the rules on WP:EN are (except for Fair Use) the same on WP:EN and Commons, here on Commons we tend to look at things more carefully.
I will add that a fast look suggests that all of the images in the WP:EN article Ekaterina Geltzer would get a DR here on Commons.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:16, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


Hello James!

I´d like to understand whay was this picture deleted: Labias (talk) 14:36, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The description on the file reads, in part:
|source=Wikipedia - Commons
|author=I dont know
We need to know both the source and author of modern images before we can keep them. Please read Commons:Licensing.
If you have questions, feel free to ask them here or at Commons:Village pump.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of image File:Russianstateduma.JPG

Hi. You deleted this picture of the Russian state parliament building which I uploaded. Why was it deleted? I own the image and tried to put the right licence on it. The english language wikipedia could do with having this image as the picture it had of the parliament has also been deleted. How can we get the picture back? Thanks. --Bucephalus (talk) 19:35, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

The architect, Arkady Langman, died in 1968, so his work is under copyright until 2038 and your photograph infringes that copyright. Although many countries have a special exception to the copyright rules for architecture, there is no such exception in Russia.
It is very likely that you could upload the image to WP:EN with a Fair Use rationale, but Fair Use is not accepted on Commons.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 00:05, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Shark tail shapes image removal

I am the original requester of this [37] image removal. On this subject user PeteF stated "This is an interesting case, and I'm not sure what to make of it. If the images are faithful reproductions of the shapes of shark fins, I don't see how they could be subject to copyright. It would, however, be best to indicate the book they came from in the metadata, if that is the case."

In a partial answer to him, my suggestion for a solution would be simple verification, which in this case is from the page of a particular book in which the contents are not available online. Should a Wikimedia admin request proof that I know what I am talking about (and I do think such a request is reasonable), I have the book on my desk, and I have scanned the page in question; this in turn would be made available to the person asking for it here to compare with the image in question. Doing so would not just prevent copyrighted material from being uploaded wrongly, it would also prevent the possibility of a false copyright claim being made. Bmac49 (talk) 06:49, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand why you have posted this here -- I deleted the image for exactly the reason set forth in the DR. No further proof is required. Just as we Assume Good Faith when an uploader claims to have been the photographer of an image, we Assume Good Faith when a user, even an unregistered user, asserts that an image appears in a book. So, thank you for your offer, but it is unnecessary. And welcome to the ranks of registered users.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:53, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The deletion of image: File:Mohamed_Hilal.jpg

Dear sir,

You deleted the image File:Mohamed_Hilal.jpg, although I own the right to upload and delete it, because this photo was given to me personally from the person in question along with his biography to be published on Wikipedia. First I put it on Research Laboratory of Interigence which verifies all the information and the photos published on its Web site, then Interigence created an official Web page for the said person in Arabic upon his request: Now, everything is ok! How else can I prove to you that the photo is my work and all what I said is real? Should you receive an official email from Research Laboratory of Interigence? Should the aged man contact you from his email stated on his Web page? What can I do? Please, Advise! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Information Advisor (talk • contribs) 07:34, 21 December 2011‎ (UTC)

Both above and in the image description you claim that the image is your own work -- yet in your comments above, you make it clear that it is not your own work, but was given to you by the subject of the image.
The problem, therefore, is that we do not have permission of the copyright holder, who is almost certainly the photographer or his heirs. The fact that Mohamed Hilal owned a copy of the photograph does not make him or you the copyright holder -- professional photographers very rarely transfer copyrights, in part because they want to control revenue from the image and in part because in many countries it requires registration of the image with the Copyright Office of the government.
The only way to keep this image on Commons would be to locate the photographer and get his permission, using the procedure at Commons:OTRS.
I should add that the image is very poor quality and I think we would all be better off if you or someone took a new photograph and used that instead of this.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:45, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Suggested Closure

Formally speaking, there are 2 issues. 1) If the "Street category" has street views, it goes into "Streets category tree"; and if it has only buildings, without street views? Does it go into "Streets category tree" or into "Buildings category tree"? --PereslavlFoto (talk) 17:32, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

2) OK, let's suggest it goes into both: "Streets category tree" because the houses are grouped by street, "Buildings category tree" because they are buildings. Why then I cannot set the "Street category" into "Buildings category tree"? --PereslavlFoto (talk) 17:32, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

They are separate. To use my example:
Category:Cathedral Church of St. Paul, Boston
Category:Episcopal churches in Boston
Category:Churches in Boston by faith
Category:Buildings in Boston
Category:Tremont Street (Boston, Massachusetts)
Category:Streets in Boston
Category:Transport in Boston

The reason that Category:Tremont Street (Boston, Massachusetts) does not belong in Category:Buildings in Boston is that there are many things in it that are not buildings -- such as:

Category:Boston Common‎ (public park)
Category:King's Chapel Burying Ground‎ (cemetery)
Category:Scollay Square‎ (a square -- large intersection of two streets)

so that it logically goes up to the town or city category separately. Now, of course, Boston is a large city and is well photographed. You will not need as many intermediate categories in a smaller city, and in towns you might just have Buildings in X and Streets in X both in the X city category. And, as I said at ANB, unless there are three or more important buildings or places on several streets, you won't need Streets in X at all.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 17:53, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

It is a small town, yes. There were photos of separate buildings. The number of buildings' photos grew, the "Buildings" cat overfilled, and I started to group them into streets (the most obvious grouping). Town → Buildings of the town → One street, Other street, Onemore street. Other user moved those "street categories" from "Buildings" super-category into "Streets" super-category. I proposed to keep these "street categories" both in "Buildings" super-category (as there are only buildings, no street views) and into "Streets" super-category (if that user wants). He insisted to keep only in "Streets".--PereslavlFoto (talk) 18:28, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I understand. I think I would follow the Boston model with the Category:Buildings in X. The number of different types of buildings gives plenty of diffusion:
Category:Buildings in Boston
Category:Churches in Boston‎
Category:Courthouses in Boston, Massachusetts‎
Category:Fire stations in Boston‎
Category:Hotels in Boston‎
Category:Houses in Boston‎
Category:Museums in Boston
Category:‎Restaurants in Boston, Massachusetts‎
Category:Schools in Boston‎
Category:Shops in Boston
Category:Taverns in Boston, Massachusetts
Category:Theatres in Boston‎
Category:Train stations in Boston, Massachusetts
I suspect you could do the same in your town, without as many, of course, and maintain the logical separation between streets and buildings up to the top category in the town.

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

It seems to me, the problem just moved from "Buildings in Town" into "Houses in Town", and all the files from 1st will move into 2nd category.--PereslavlFoto (talk) 11:51, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
How many are we talking about? Are all of these houses notable in some way? -- we do not generally keep images of every house. Could they be divided "houses from the 1960s", etc.?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Undeleting/uploading Neanderthal child.jpg Commons:Deletion requests/File:Neanderthal child.jpg

Dear Jameswoodward,

Rani, an acquaintance of mine, was disappointed to find out that the image Neanderthal child.jpg [38] was deleted from the Wikimedia, so he contacted the owners and got this response:

Hi Rani, strange to hear that - we did not know that the pic has been removed from the Wikipedia article. So we grant permission to post it again on the Wikipedia Neanderthal page (here is the link to the our respective site:

Best regards,

M. Ponce de León

Ch. Zollikofer

Prof. Dr. Christoph P. E. Zollikofer

Anthropological Institute

University of Zurich

Since Rani and myself, and probably Prof. Zollikofer too, are not familiar with the correct procedures, we'll be grateful to you if you assist us with undeleting the image or (if this is now impossible) to upload it again.

Sincerely, H. sapiens (talk) 18:30, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The problem, as described in the Deletion Request which I linked above, is that we have no valid license for the image. I could find nothing on the site you linked above except pages with copyright notices.
In order to keep an image on Commons that is not inherently in the Public Domain by reason of age or otherwise, either:
  • (a) The source must clearly be licensed CC-BY or other acceptable "standard" license, which is clearly not the case here, or
  • (b) The owner of the copyright must give Commons a CC-BY or other acceptable "standard" license using the procedure at Commons:OTRS.
Note that "we grant permission to post it again on the Wikipedia Neanderthal page" is not a sufficient license in any case -- Commons requires a general license for all use, including commercial.
Therefore, I suggest that you have the owner of the copyright use the OTRS procedure. Once that is done, the image will be promptly restored. Do not, please, in any case upload the image again. That is both completely unnecessary and a violation of our rules.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:14, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

OTRS ticket question

Jim, I was patrolling the q and saw ticket:2011122110008703 which led me to Commons:Deletion requests/ images; however the remaining images from that ticket are still hanging around (and the one I checked had the OTRS verified status from upload, ticket:2008021410012166). What should normally be done in such cases (some of the images may be PD)? I won't be around for a few days, so I won't be responding to this ticket, but this is an interesting situation, so I figured I'd check with you on it. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 08:57, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand the question. The ticket you gave is an inquiry about licensing a Commons image for use elsewhere and does not, I think, raise any issues on Commons. I'm sure I'm missing something here, but what?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:59, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
The first ticket is an enquiry, the second ticket is the ticket for the uploads and has a note on it (possibly negating it) after initial acceptance of the ticket. And then there's the DR for a couple of the images from the second ticket. Under normal circumstances I'd have sent the "reuse" message, but I checked on this as the OTRS confirmed tag was added at initial upload and not by an OTRS agent. —SpacemanSpiff 12:35, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
OK, thanks. Now I think I get it. We have an OTRS permission (dated 2/28/2008) from someone who has a history of ignoring copyright. Therefore, while we have permission for his rights in the files, we do not necessarily have permission for the underlying images. Given the age of all this, I think that a new DR is probably in order on all of the images on the invalid OTRS ticket, and a note to the enquirer that OTRS is not her problem, but that the image is probably not free. I must admit that although I am an OTRS member, I use it only for situations like this and I have never sent an OTRS reply. If you're gone, I'll try, but if you're still around, could you do it? The DR can wait.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:33, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I've responded asking her to wait a couple of weeks to get a response while we investigate the status of this image and have also added a note on the ticket in case anyone else comes by. I won't be around for a few days, so I'll look through the images and see what can be retagged as PD and what should be deleted sometime mid-next week. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 14:20, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much. It being the day after the winter solstice, this is a holiday season for most people in the Northern Hemisphere, so I'll go out on a limb and wish you a happy one.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 14:26, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Deletion norwegian sculptures

Hello James. on 16. Dec. you deleted the following two files:

The reason was: Commons:FOP#Norway is not OK for sculptures Teofilo (talk) 00:13, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand this deletion. Commons:FOP#Norway says:

  • The Norwegian Copyright in Literary, Scientific and Artistic Works Act, in section 24, 2 says that works of art and photographic works may be depicted when they are permanently mounted or located in or near a public place or a publicly accessible passage through some place. However, this does not apply when the work is clearly the main motive and the reproduction is exploited commercially. The same section says buildings may be freely depicted.

In this text I can not find a reason for the deletion. As far as I know the deleted pictures show a public and permanent installed sculpture (historical monment) - like hundreds other pictures of norwegian sculptures/monuments, which are still on commons. Perhaps you can think about this deletions? Thanks and best regards --Lienhard Schulz (talk) 09:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I think that commercially is the bad word. All uploads to Commons are required to be free also for commercial use. Quite a number of countries who actually have some FOP legislation, are nevertheless unusable for us due to the restriction to non-commercial use. --Túrelio (talk) 11:32, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Exactly. Thank you for raising the point that Commons:FOP#Norway is not as clear as it should be. I have added a little more explanation there.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:47, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Thx. But what's the difference between the deleted files and - for example - this file? --Lienhard Schulz (talk) 12:16, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
The sculptor of File:Christian IV av CL Jacobsen 1.jpg, Carl Ludvig Jacobsen, died in 1923, so the statue has been free of copyright since 1993 -- 70 years after his death. Anne Grimdalen, the sculptor of the two works you asked about, died in 1961, so her works are under copyright until 2031.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


I have some concerns about how you handled File:W&J College tobacco silk.jpg, and I have raised them at Commons:Village_pump#Concerns_about_an_administrator.--GrapedApe (talk) 15:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I also have a concern about your behaviour, namely that you chose to hide a COM:AN revision after reverting yourself - while I can understand wishing to take back something you have said, I feel that using admin tools to do so is probably an abuse of power. Admin tools shouldn't be used to sweep our mistakes under the rug. -mattbuck (Talk) 15:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
I was tired and made a comment that while entirely true, was not helpful. I deliberately hid only the reverted comment, not the whole history, so that other Admins would be able to see exactly what I had done and, if they wished, read what I had deleted. It is true that I might better have asked you or another Admin to hide the comment, but I was concerned that I get it done before I went to bed and Saturn might have an opportunity to read it. Given that anyone can see that I deleted it and we have 258 colleagues who can read what I said, it may be under the rug, but there is a large bump in the rug where it lies.
If I had left the comment in place, the discussion would have suffered, so I have to ask, what would you have done in the circumstances? -- I ask that in all honesty, not defensively.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:15, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to think I would just have reverted it and accepted it as a mistake. More likely I'd have just felt vindictive and left it there, maybe just edited it a bit rather than reverted fully. I understand where you're coming from though. -mattbuck (Talk) 16:23, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 16:51, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Hong Sa-ik

Jim. Could you delete this image in the File:Hong Sa-ik.jpg ? I think that the copyright of original image had expired, if this image was a real photograph. However this image was deformed from the cover of book (Look at his left shoulder). And I couldn't normal edition of this image, and all image that I found are book cover. I'm not sure if this image was taken as photograph or not. I'm seeking for "better" portrait of him. Takabeg (talk) 22:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning -- If the copyright on the original images has expired, then the book cover does not have a copyright and this image, even if taken from the book cover, is still PD. Or am I missing something?      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Coats of arms of the United Arab Emirates.svg

You had given a good information Commons:Coats of arms..--...Captain......Tälk tö me.. 14:53, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

+1 -- πϵρήλιο 18:05, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas, James! Fangusu (talk) 16:52, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

More wingless

Same problem with File:The wrestle of Jacob.jpg. Thanks. --- Salutations. louis-garden pinXit (On en cause) 17:59, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

✓ Done      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 18:19, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

Hi Jim,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year - 1908 Australian postcard.png
Hope that so day somewhere on earth we shall meet in the same friendly manner in which we have interacted online for Wiki Projects. I am very pleased with your friendly and welcoming attitude. Hindustanilanguage (talk) 09:15, 26 December 2011 (UTC).

Peace and Best Wishes to All

     Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 13:42, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Likewise :) --Herby talk thyme 14:03, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Deleted 15Т382 image

Good time ! I would like to revisit the reasons of removing the picture of 15T382 vehicle (from the annex to the memorandum of understanding START treaty). I think that you hurry to make a decision about deleting this image. Even if the information on the page Copyright Information of does not belong to this picture and it is not the work of U.S. Federal Government and was transferred to the United States in the preparation of the treaty by the Soviet side, according to the laws of my country (according to interstate and international compacts, the Russian Federation is the legal successor of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), namely: Part IV of Civil Code No. 230-FZ of the Russian Federation of December 18, 2006. Article 1259. Objects of Copyright. Paragraph 6 - "Shall not be objects of copyright: official documents of state government agencies and local government agencies of municipal formations, including laws, other legal texts, judicial decisions, other materials of legislative, administrative and judicial character, official documents of international organizations, as well as their official translations;" This work is not an object of copyright, it is in the public domain, and thus we could only go about changing the license template from {{PD-USGov}} to {{PD-RU-exempt}}, not about removing ! Sorry for my "specific" english. Leonidl (talk) 18:09, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Your English is much better than my Russian -- certainly very clear and easy to read.
We know nothing about where this image came from. It seems clear that it is not {{PD-USGov}}, but to show that it is {{PD-RU-exempt}} we will have to have more information -- we don't know who took the photograph or how the DoS got it. I agree with you that it is likely to have been supplied to DoS by the Soviet Government, but "likely" is not enough here.
However, I don't feel strongly about it -- I suggest you take the question to Commons:Undeletion requests, as our colleagues may think differently. Please let me know if you do.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 19:00, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
My English for about 50% owe to brainchild Google - I have consulted on the forum on Copyright of before i uploading the photo (only after a positive response to my inquiry on the above forum i am uploaded image). I will do request for restoration of photos. Unfortunately, the probability of getting information from the verified source on the circumstances of creating photos from the START treaty tends to zero, even in the presence of bonds in the SRF. The only option - to prove that regardless of the circumstances of origin, images are in public domain, according to current Russian legislation. Thanks for rapid answer. Leonidl (talk) 16:01, 27 December 2011 (UTC)


Happy new year 01.svg

--Nevit Dilmen (talk) 13:39, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

  • +1. I hope you had some nice and peaceful days the last week. BTW, I admire how you deal with all the odium and unfriendly users on Commons, especially those upset because a deletion-request. Cheers -- RE rillke questions? 00:14, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


Thank you all for your good wishes. I try to build an atmosphere of collegiality, and it's nice to know that that achieves some success.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 01:10, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


Jim. Is this image PD ? {{PD-USGov-Military-Marines}} can be applied for this image ? I found it in the website of USMC. However, as long as I understand, Christine Cabalo is not the personnel of the USMC. Takabeg (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I think she might be a civilian employee of the USMC -- see      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 04:06, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Merci. Takabeg (talk) 04:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


Hi. I saw you suggested closure of the topic about that user in COM:AN/U. It seems to me that the closure will not be a good decision since it is PereslavlFoto exclusively, who creates the problems. Besides, the problems are not limited to categories, see this discussion, or this one, or comment by Andrei Romanenko on the noticeboard, or comments by Ymblanter there, or this edit. As far as I can see this user is a well-known troll form RuWP (ru:Участник:Безымянный Ответ; block log and the Arbcom decision): I do not have CU evidence, but the two users come from the same small Russian town and have quite a similar communication pattern. In my opinion, only indefinite block will help. I can impose the block myself and give the sufficient reasoning. However, being active in Russian WP primarily, I am not familiar with blocking policy with regard to such complicated cases as disruptive editing and trolling. Can you advise, if the issue is to be discussed previously with another admins, or an admin can act on one's own? --Blacklake (talk) 15:11, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I backed out of that discussion when it became clear that my intervention was not appreciated by one side. As I said there, PereslavlFoto was polite to me, while the other side was both impolite and made incorrect accusations, so it is not at all clear to me that PF should bear all of the blame here.
I would much prefer to see you, me, and others work with PF to improve his understanding of the issues. I think he is teachable -- see User_talk:Jameslwoodward#Suggested_Closure above. While we have, of course, blocked people for disruptive behavior, we also have allowed them to stay in cases much more difficult and long running than this -- Pieter Kuiper, for example.
Before you take any negative action based on your thoughts above, I would encourage you to request that a CU look at it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:33, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you, I suppose I see the point. Since then there was another category issue (Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems#User:PereslavlFoto, he insisted that using Cyrillic when naming categories was legitimate), but probably it can be resolved in peaceful way too. But I must say, that to me the impolite behaviour by the other side often looks like losing their temper in response (as Trycatch pointed out; while I am not trying to justify NVO's reaction, there was obvious distortion of his words by PereslavlFoto before). --Blacklake (talk) 16:34, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
My comment was based on this:
"Unfortunately, this is a typical behavior for "neutral" admins here, despite the fact that the issue is submitted in English language and every user with a minimum of knowledge in categorization should actually realize who is just trolling here. A.Savin 13:32, 22 December 2011 (UTC)"
I had not taken any position except suggesting that the thousands of words of discussion wasn't getting anywhere. Calling me (and all Admins) un-neutral seemed to me a poor beginning remark by A.Savin.
I have no doubt that PF needs a lot of education -- policy is clear that categories are in English, so we have Category:Moscow, not "Москва" or even "Moskva" (forgive me if I got either of those wrong) and similar Categories in many other languages. I'd like to think that working with him, rather than spending many, many words on discussing him, is a better use of our time. I wonder, also, how much of this is misunderstanding based on his imperfect English. But, it is entirely possible that I am being too kind. Sometimes I stretch too far to try to save an active editor.
Speaking of language, I think your English is better than en-2 -- while everything you wrote above is not absolutely perfect, it is at least as good as several of our colleagues for whom English is their mother tongue.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I'll upgrade myself to en-3. --Blacklake (talk) 19:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
At least something positive came out of this mess ;-)      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:45, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

NRHP Georgia

Hi James. I guess it would be more properly to move Category:National Register of Historic Places in Georgia (U.S. state) into Category:National Register of Historic Places in Georgia, as long there will never be a "NRHP" in the "Country" of Georgia. No ? Happy New Year although. --Gary Dee (talk) 18:50, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Your logic is good. However, I note that all but one of the 31 subcats of Category:Georgia (U.S. state) are of the same form as the state, so I would tend to leave it as is, rather than create one that is different. You might ask User:Nyttend what he thinks -- he does a lot more NRHP work than I have done in the last two years.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 23:33, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok. Thanks & a Happy New Year. --Gary Dee (talk) 08:36, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Hupp COAs

Hi Jim, just as a notification to prevent a surprise, I will now look (as I was asked to, not out of my wish) into the COAs associated with Otto Hupp, which you deleted some months ago. Some might stay, some may have to be moved to :de. --Túrelio (talk) 20:15, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

  • And maybe enwiki (fair use) Bulwersator (talk) 20:31, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I asked Túrelio because of his participation in the last undeletion request. I only restored three of the arms in question, and I been working with Bulwersator on the formatting of the requests. User:Zscout370 (Return fire) 20:41, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
That's fine with me, thank you three for the notification. As I remember, it is rests on some fine points of German law and since I don't read German, I have little to add to any discussion.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:59, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

* * * Happy New 2012 Year! * * *

-- George Chernilevsky talk 17:25, 31 December 2011 (UTC)