User talk:Kelly

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English: Welcome to the Commons, Kelly1!
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Our first steps help file and our FAQ will help you a lot after registration. They explain how to customize the interface (for example the language), how to upload files and our basic licensing policy. You don't need technical skills in order to contribute here. Be bold contributing here and assume good faith for the intentions of others. This is a wiki ‒ it is really easy.

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--SieBot 01:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)]]

Congratulations, Dear Administrator![edit]

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An offering for our new administrator from your comrades...

Kelly, congratulations! You now have administrator rights on Commons. Please take a moment to read the Commons:Administrators page and watchlist related pages (in particular Commons:Administrators' noticeboard an it subpages), before launching yourself into page deletions, page protections, account blockings or modifications of protected pages. The majority of the actions of administrators can be reversed by the other admins, except for history merges which must thus be treated with particular care. Have a look at the list of Gadgets (on the bottom there are the ones specifically for admins – however, for example the UserMessages are very helpful too).

Please feel free to join us on IRC: #wikimedia-commons-lr webchat on irc.freenode.net. There is also a channel for Commons admins, which may be useful for more sensitive topics, or coordination among administrators: #wikimedia-commons-admin webchat.

You may find Commons:Guide to adminship to be useful reading. You can find the admin backlog overview at COM:AB.

Please also check or add your entry to the List of administrators and the related lists by language and date it references.

Krd 18:27, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

  • Congrats Kelly! If you need any help, you're always welcome at my talk page. I hope you enjoy being an administrator. Face-wink.svg INeverCry 19:47, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Sorry I missed your RfA. Good luck and don't forget to have fun! yes --Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 02:48, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Thanks all! (especially @INeverCry:). I'm going to take some time to read over the instructions for the tools and then I will be helping out. Kelly (talk) 05:35, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
The first thing you want to do is go to Preferences/Gadgets/Tools for authorized users and tick the boxes for the first 4 gadgets and the very last one. You may also want to add the following scripts to your common.js:
importScriptURI('//ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-markblocked.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');
importScriptURI('//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:PleaseStand/userinfo.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');
importScriptURI('//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/massRollback.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');
The best thing to remember starting out is that each of your new buttons has its opposite. If you make a mistake with a deletion, you can undelete; if you block someone and they agree to stop doing what they were doing you can unblock them. Every admin makes a mistake now and then, but they can always be fixed. Hope that helps. Those scripts will help along with the gadgets. Be careful with the mass rollback script; I use it for vandals and sockpuppets, and it's fully capable of rolling back 60 edits per minute. Make sure you've got popups enabled to; as an admin you'll need to see who you're dealing with in terms of edits, age of account, and user rights. INeverCry 16:36, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
@INeverCry: Thanks! I tried out my first couple of deletions today. Kelly (talk) 16:42, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
At that rate you'll have your first talkpage complaint before you know it. Face-wink.svg That's a part of everyday life if you're an active admin. People will come to your page wondering why you deleted their blatant copyvio: most new uploaders haven't a clue about policy. You'll also get some experienced editors who may get on you for a deletion. I'll keep a watch on your talk in case I can help with something difficult. After a while you'll know how things go, and it'll be easy. The deletion requests I file are an easy close BTW - I only do unused personal images for the most part. INeverCry 17:08, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

"3D Artworks"[edit]

Could you explain the reasons for wanting to delete images of historic advertising features such as the various Muffler Men that appear along Route 66, please? --Skyring (talk) 22:28, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) See Commons:Freedom of panorama#United States. 3D artwork isn't covered. These Muffler Men were created from 1960 on, so they're new enough to be copyrighted by their authors or the author's heirs. INeverCry 23:30, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. I read: any public artwork installed before 1978 without a copyright notice is also in the public domain (unless the copyright owner actively prevented anyone from copying or photographing the work until 1978). In fact, the owners of the Launching Pad restaurant (where the Gemini Giant stands) actively encouraged tourists to take photographs, and there would be millions of images snapped by tourists travelling along Route 66 since 1965, many of which are freely available on the web. I suggest that the same applies to all of these statues, which were used for advertising purposes. I think, going by the wording, you'd have to show that for a particular figure there was both a copyright notice in place and that photography was actively discouraged before nominating an image for deletion. --Skyring (talk) 08:52, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
Hi @Skyring: - if you're certain that these works were erected before 1978 without a copyright notice, then {{PD-US-no notice}} should be added to the photos. I'm not certain how we would determine that, however. Without evidence, the files may have to be deleted under the precautionary principle. An alternative may be to copy any to Wikipedia that compley with their non-free content policy. With respect - Kelly (talk) 09:04, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
The onus is not upon me to show that advertising structures such as this were not displayed with copyright notices. No such notices are visible in the many images. The fact that the structures were intended for advertising strongly suggests that photography was actively encouraged. According to the wording above, the test for copyright protection is threefold:
  1. Installed before 1978
  2. Has a copyright notice
  3. Photography actively prevented
Even if we posit copyright notices discreetly mounted out of sight, there must be some evidence of photography being discouraged to meet the test. A warning sign, for example, given that these things were usually mounted in plain view along busy thoroughfares and a reasonable person would assume that photography was permitted. --Skyring (talk) 09:37, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
Copyright notice seems to explain it pretty well. Commons does require the {{PD-US-no notice}} license on images where it would apply. Kelly (talk) 09:41, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
That's as may be. The third part of the test above, according to our own wording, kills your argument. It says, "…the copyright owner actively prevented anyone from copying or photographing the work…" Not just discouraged, but actively prevented. The owner would have to conceal the thing, or station a guard to prevent people taking photographs. I think, before nominating an image of such a structure for deletion, you have to ensure that it meets all three parts of the threefold test we describe. Otherwise it fails and is public domain. --Skyring (talk) 10:31, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
Can you respond, please? Are you going to be a stinkler and demand an unnecessary {{PD-US-no notice}}, or are you going to accept that structures placed in public view with no restrictions on photography are not being actively prevented from photography. Either way, it seems we need to amend something to prevent perfectly legitimate images from being nominated for deletion. --Skyring (talk) 21:42, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
@Skyring: - I'm really sorry if it seems like I'm being a "stinkler". But please see Commons:Project scope/Evidence. If you would like the photos to be retained here, I'm afraid you'll have to do the legwork to ensure they have the proper licensing. ALso, see for instance Commons:Deletion requests/Crazy Horse Memorial - we don't host photos of the Crazy Horse Memorial even though it's the largest sculpture in the world and nobody attempts to prevent photography. With respect - Kelly (talk) 21:46, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. Could you respond to the points I raise above, please? --Skyring (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
I believe I have - in any case, I don't have anything else to add. It won't be me making the decision on whether the photos are deleted, and whoever does probably won't see this discussion on my talk page. Kelly (talk) 22:41, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps this goes to a wider question. Why are we deleting images that are perfectly fine? Regardless of whether it's tagged or not, my Gemini Giant photo is of a structure in the public domain according to our own guidelines, of which I have quoted the pertinent wording above. --Skyring (talk) 23:02, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
What perfectly fine images were deleted? If your images are perfectly fine, they'll be kept at the related deletion requests. In any event, you've had your say here, and you've been less than respectful. Please direct further comments to the deletion requests involved. Continued posts here may be considered as harassment, and may lead to your account being blocked. Move on. INeverCry 23:11, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
@Skyring: - look, let's reset the conversation a bit. I like the work you've done on Muffler Men and I find the topic interesting! The issue is that we are advertising ourselves as a repository of free media that anyone can use for any purpose. If we didn't get the licensing correct, but someone trusted us and used the photos in a work for sale and later got sued for violating copyright, it would cause damage to our project. We're just trying to dot the i's and cross the t's here. Kelly (talk) 23:30, 21 August 2016 (UTC)