User talk:Multichill/Archives/2008/June

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

adding categories

Goeiemorgen. Is het echt nodig dat je bot plantenafbeeldingen met missing category tagged, als ze al in één of meerdere gallerijen te vinden zijn? Het is niet de gewoonte om plantensoorten nog eens in een categorie te plaatsen als ze al in een gallerij staan (zie bvb. these edit). Mvg. Lycaon 09:27, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Een gallerij is geen vervanging van een categorie en andersom. Het zijn twee systemen om een afbeelding te vinden. Multichill 20:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Inderdaad is een gallerij geen vervanging van een categorie en andersom. Juist daarom is het mijns inziens niet nodig dat je bot plantenafbeeldingen met missing category tagged, als ze al in één of meerdere gallerijen te vinden zijn. Wanneer er geen verdere onderverdeling meer mogelijk is, is een gallerij aangewezen. Ik had een plaatje geupload en een pagina gemaakt van Alkanna_sieberi. Vanwege je bot-opmerking heb ik hem nu ook bij Category:Boraginoideae geplaatst. Wanneer alle gemelde pagina's daar ook alle plaatjes neerzetten wordt het onoverzichtelijk. Wouter (talk) 07:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Category

I was making a category for images from this photographer. As I studied the flowers in that tribe, that photographer is a recognized plant identification authority, a recognition which I am unclear about -- that being said, I did write something sarcastic at the gallery that I downloaded the images from about this. The author/photographer is working in the United States and should not be very sensitive in that way. Well, heck, I saw one of the excursions to find these plants and the red head had a major sun burn and has probably spent sometime dealing with real pain (that hurts, I know this). I mention this now in the case that this was the reason the category name wasn't applied to the image pages.

It was going to be nice to write an article that made botany not look like a job for the English sons of leaders who did not measure up -- which is what all that looks like now. Camping is fun and need not be terribly dangerous.

Can you use the bots log and put the category on those images? Then it should be easy to see if the wrong images have been credited to the photographer as well. -- carol (tomes) 08:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Please stop with bot add categories to this image

As I have explained above in Dutch there is no need and it is even sometimes very undesirable to put photos in a category when they are already in a gallery. Please change you bot in such a way that it checks whether it is in a gallery and/or a category. In the gallery of the user there is already a warning when there is no usage of the image. May be you can use that warning. Further please program your bot in such a way that it allows the uploader an hour after upload to modify the just uploaded image. Wouter (talk) 09:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

They can be in both and should in the opinion of some. I have been in a difficult and wrong situation in which my work putting categories on images has been removed. Can you provide a situation in which it would be "very undesirable to put photos in a category when they are already in a gallery"? -- carol (talk) 17:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Please see Commons:Categories#Categories and/or galleries?. Multichill (talk) 17:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Why doesn't this bot check whether an image is actually included in a category before adding warning messages?

AnonMoos (talk) 15:37, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Is the category included in a template? While I am not "MultiChill" I have written scripts -- it is more helpful to see the image with the category that the bot did not see to help to fix the problem than it is to just know that there is a problem. -- carol (talk) 17:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
AnonMoos, could you please provide me with a sample? Multichill (talk) 17:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Time lag

Hello Multichill , please allow at least 10 minutes to get things sorted out after the upload of a file. Thank you and best regards --Marbot (talk) 23:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I will add it, probably my skipping the first n uploads. Multichill (talk) 11:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi, that's great. Thank you :-) --Marbot (talk) 02:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Bot source

Thank you for your message. --meno25 (talk) 13:32, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Bot at heraldry categories

Hi, I notice your bot has moved Bezants to roundel cat. You should know that Bezants and Roundels are not the same figure: bezants refers to gold or silver circles; roundels any other color. Please, ammend your bot mistaken changes. Thank you, --SanchoPanzaXXI (talk) 07:47, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

It's just a bot clean up redirect categories. You should leave Zigeuner a note. Multichill (talk) 08:47, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Done, thank you.--SanchoPanzaXXI (talk) 18:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

category redirect by bot

Moving files in Category:Children's soccer to Category:Association football did not make much sense. It's useful to separate in subategories childrens and adults when there are many files of each. --Javier ME (talk) 10:40, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

My bot just cleans up redirect categories. It works on Category:Non-empty category redirects. You should talk to the user who turned the category into a redirect category. Multichill (talk) 10:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Image:Lijn6FB1.jpg

You have reverted the (appropriate) crop and restored the {{watermark}} and {{Remove border}} templates. This version should not have the caption - content should be in the description - can you supply an English translation? The cropped version of just the tram is fine. Finavon (talk) 18:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Battlefield or not

So which was, in your opinion, the purpose of the banner? --Dodo (talk) 19:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

It's in use at the the es wikipedia so it's in scope. If the people at es wikipedia dont like the picture they should remove it from his userpage, Multichill (talk) 19:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Nope. It has no use besides the canvassing started by the user. Maybe it's a bit unclear because the image is not of bad taste and such, but please try to get informed before. Regards. --Dodo (talk) 19:27, 20 June 2008 (UTC) PS. A trivial question: do you think Al2 calling me vandal is not a bit harsh?

Hi Multichill, The image you have deleted was used to illustrate my viewpoint regarding a current discussion in wikipedia-es. I wanted to state my thoughts as for example any other wikipedian who states their political view or ideology in their own user page. If other wikipedians are allowed to do that, why can I not? --Al2 (talk) 20:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

IMHO, the "viewpoint" (aka canvassing) has been put into an image with the sole purpose of defeat the control of es: admins. --Dodo (talk) 21:13, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Category move

Hello. I had a question about some moves by your bot. Images were moved from "Paintings of the United States" to "Paintings in the United States". Those are two different things, and some images may belong in one and not the other. If I should bring this up with someone else who authorized the move, can you tell me who? Thank you. Best wishes, -- Infrogmation (talk) 19:55, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Infrogmation, please see #Bot at heraldry categories & #category redirect by bot you might want to discus it with this user. Multichill (talk) 20:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Category move also

A couple of my images have been removed from a category I might have made from and for them. I understand that I uploaded the images and no longer own them, however, the bot and the template and the people who made this move possible don't own them either.

The bot is doing the opposite of what it did the other day when it helped me -- so mostly I am wondering what this bot is going to do -- there is a chance that it is going to keep running around doing things and undoing them

One of the examples I have yet to put at en:Unlimited Register Machine is how easy it is to write a program using only 4 different instructions and make the program run in an infinite loop. An additional number of instructions does not actually prevent that and one of the assignments is to write it using only three instructions.

The challenge is to not do that, unless I missed something somewhere.... -- carol (talk) 23:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi carol, which moves are you exactly talking about? Multichill (talk) 08:57, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Statement on the modified images

I have already updated the information as you requested, just wonder why didn't you ask me what kind of meaning of the statement on it, is there somthing wrong if it's too negative? By the way, it said "Let's join the Japan wikipedia project for a great Japan and we Asia!". I created it for the vi.wiki project, however some guys there removed it off, so it completely orphans now.Tojo'Kami (talk) 09:24, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, i just wanted to know the source so that the pictures dont get deleted because of lack of source. I assumed they were for a portal or something like that. Multichill (talk) 11:11, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Just like this one, don't you think it's too sensitive to we wikipedian users? And is it suitable if I place the image at the Japan wikiproject (as this way) without being accused of supporting nationalism? Many thanks.Tojo'Kami (talk) 12:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I really dont have an opinion about that. Multichill (talk) 13:24, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
No problem for asking, i just really dont know ;-) . Multichill (talk) 13:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Categorisation using Commonsense

Hum - just came across one of these edits from the bot(I was not aware of Commonsense before). The categories added were actually "impossible". This image had been categorised as being a river in Australia & as Scotland in the UK. That is physically about as far apart as possible in the world - does something need tweaking? Otherwise this is just making work for people? Thanks --Herby talk thyme 08:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Herby, commonsense is already in use for quite some time for bot uploads. I just started doing some tests with automaticly adding categories to images without categories. I tag these images with {{Check categories}}. See the check usage for the source of the strange categories :-). I'm still working on improving the categorization (you might have seen my commonscat bot running around). Multichill (talk) 18:00, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Template UncategorizedHeader

Could it be that the automatic speedy deletion don't really work? Because the speedy deletion dialog box shows right in an empty Media needing categories cat, but the empty cat won't show up in the Category:Other speedy deletions--Ma-Lik (talk) 11:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Takes some time, you can force it with a dummy edit (edit -> save without changing, wont show up in the log). Multichill (talk) 18:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok. My workaround was to add the Category:Other speedy deletions by hand...--Ma-Lik (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Your bot.

Hi Multichill, as I'm not sure if you're reading direct answers to the bot-request on my talk page, I'll answer you here: ALL my images your bot tagged are included into gallery-pages which in turn are included into the category tree under Category:Plantae. So I did what your bot requested ("put the images into appropriate topic pages"). All images were already added to that pages when your bot added the tag. Same goes for the last batch of my pictures a few days ago, i.e. Image:Escobaria sneedii flower.jpg where your bot added the tag just 5 minutes after the upload (which isn't that much time if you're batch-uploading pictures). Please adjust your bot so it doesn't add unnecessary tags to pictures anymore. Thanks, --Carstor (talk) 13:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Carstor, sorry about the speedy tagging of new images. I changed that, it's now a daily run checking yesterdays pictures. About the categorization. You missed the important part this means that you should put the images into appropriate topic pages, categories, optionally galleries, or both of them. You might want to read Commons:Categories#Categories and/or galleries?. Multichill (talk) 13:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
So what? Commons:Categories#Categories and/or galleries? doesn't say that there is a need to categorize images if they are already included in a gallery. Tagging them is just annoying. Your bot would be more helpful if it would tag real orphan images ... --Carstor (talk) 13:47, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Where is the information, which of my 3.000 pictures you refer to? --Mbdortmund (talk) 14:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Multichill (talk) 14:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

1. Why didn't your bot name these pictures?

2. None of these pictures is made and uploaded by me, I only edited them because something else was missing or wrong.

--Mbdortmund (talk) 17:53, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Please link images

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Hello Multichill/Archives/2008/June!

Thank you for providing images to Wikimedia Commons. Please keep in mind that images uploaded to Commons should be useful to all users of Wikimedia projects. This is possible only if the images can be found by other people.

To allow others to find the images you uploaded here, the images should be in some place that can be found by navigating the category structure. This means that you should put the images into appropriate topic pages, categories, optionally galleries, or both of them (see Commons:Categories). To find good categories for your images, the CommonSense tool may help.

You can find a convenient overview of your uploaded files in this gallery.

The important point is that the images should be placed in the general structure somewhere. There are a large number of completely unsorted images on Commons right now. If you would like to help to place some of those images where they can be found, please do!

Thank you. BotMultichill (talk) 12:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Which one?

Cats are important, and bots are only trying to help, but sometimes they aren't very bright and accomplish little but confusion. That's what this one did for me, leaving a note in my talk page a day after my last photo upload, which was properly categorized. The notice has many words but they do not specify a date or a file or group of files. The bot ought to be shut down until this problem can be addressed. Jim.henderson (talk) 15:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

+1 --Mbdortmund (talk) 17:47, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Without identifing images to categorise, this bot function is merely an irritation (discouraging me from editing). Most of my Commons editing is cleaning up images, so I become the last uploader. While I usually add either appropriate categories or {{uncat}}, I may have missed some. If you let me know which, I will happily try to categorise. Finavon (talk) 18:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Flora vs Plants

The plant people move my categories out of the Categories which start with the word "Flora".

Also, the "Flora" categories are all being located at a category structure starting at Category:Ecozones. It is a structure which is mature and easy to understand. It needs some work, but there are "Flora of" categories for most second level politically defined areas of the world now.

I have no problem with the Plant people and the mostly lovely galleries that they want to appear in their Plant categories. I need help with some of the problems with the structure that starts at Category:Ecozones but deleting a "Flora of" category here isn't that helpful. -- carol (talk) 19:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Can you undo all of the bots changes to Category which start with "Flora of"? A lot of human work went into that and it was more mature and informational than the existing structure which the Category have worked their way now into. The fact that Category and gallery can exist together is well documented on this talk page and on the bot request page. The fact that the Plant category are not as mature as the Flora category were becoming and as informative is evident in the edit history of the gallery makers. What cannot be seen in the edit history of the categories is the removal of subcategories.
It should be easy enough, eh? Just search for "Flora of" in the bot history and undo the changes? -- carol (talk) 20:46, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Could you check the Category:Flora of Puerto Rico and Category:Flora of Michigan? Multichill (talk) 11:02, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
By the way. I dont delete categories. I only clean them up. Multichill (talk) 11:05, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I have been putting things in those categories without looking at them after putting them in there so I have no way of knowing if it is fully restored or not. Thanks for making them exist again and looking mature. One thing I have noticed, as I have been working with the Plants of category there were several states of the United States which had no plants of category. An interesting situation which either means that the plants of people did not have access to info about the state or that their category had been deleted in a similar stupid aggression or perhaps the plant category people decided that those states did not exist.... I can provide user names which should be looked at before a bot honors any templates applied by them. I don't like to work that way, but did you know that I made one name change suggestion that was off by a year and I got removed from the 'trusted user' list? To have aggressively and noncommunicatively pasted several templates into categories -- the comparison, the crime and the punishment have some equality problems.... -- carol (talk) 19:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
User:Werewombat apparently stripped categories from Flora of Michigan]. Maybe a search can be made of that? Also I am listing deleted categories in another thread here. I can try to see who did this if necessary, everything that I can do, you can do equally well as me. I have had problems with aggression against category from User:Ies and User:WayneRay and now User:Werewombat. I suggest making the bot not work if it finds templates that were applied by those people. I actually had my stature of "trusted user" revoked because I made a one year mistake in the suggestion of a name for one image. -- carol (talk) 23:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
User:WayneRay never used templates for the deletion of categories that I saw, but if he had, I would like a chance to look at the category first. -- carol (talk) 00:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

1 day block

Hi Multichill, I have blocked your bot for one day because of the lot of complains (see above). Please check your bot software that it do

  • not note about well categorized files
  • not note about files which are on a gallery page. A category can be usefull but is not mandatory
  • inform the user about the exact file name(s).

Thanks for your understanding. Raymond Disc. 18:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The bot should not inform people, who edited the picture because of some other faults but the real uploader. Mbdortmund (talk) 18:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Why the hell did you block my bot? The batch which people are complaining about finished hours ago!!!! What's your point? Multichill (talk) 23:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Dear Raymond, i'm still waiting for a response. Multichill (talk) 17:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry Multichill for the late answer but I was a few days in real life most of the time. I have blocked your bot because of the above mentioned reasons. A user asked on IRC asked me to check your bot and after reading your talk page I saw the other complains. I did not checked what kind of edits the bot was doing in these last hours/minutes, if it had stopped these kind of edits I am sorry. But the more important question is: Are the above mentioned reasons solved? Raymond Disc. 20:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Raymond, i run dozens of task with this bot. This task didnt go that well so i stopped it after this run. Then having it blocked a couple of hours afterwards and again a couple of days later is *very* annoying. I'm tired of the complaints so i dont think i'll this task again anytime soon. Multichill (talk) 20:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Bot is running

I put an image out to see when the bot started to run again, have you worked out its problems? -- carol (talk) 05:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

No they have not been worked out, so I blocked for a week this time. Multichill, you need to respond to the legitimate concerns expressed above, not just ignore them and unblock your own bot. When people carefully set up galleries and put images in them, they do not appreciate some bot coming along and telling them to do something else. Stan Shebs (talk) 13:57, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Stan Shebs: There have been issues where the people who make gallery remove categories and cause massive deletion; usually without speaking at all to the people who made them and continue to populate them. When I am here asking that the bot wait before marking an image page with a template that says it needs a category (because that is a nice thing and the right thing to do) often, right after that, many categories that I made disappear. The problem is that it shouldn't need to be one or the other. I had a nice talk with a gallery maker the other day who mentioned that galleries should probably only display the best of the images for any given topic. Mr. Shebs, did you have anything to do with the massive deletion of categories I made recently? -- carol (talk) 15:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Dear Stan Shebs, please read more carefully more you start blocking. The task people were complaining about (leaving a note to please tag images) didnt run for days. You might be confused because the bot also tags newly uploaded images and cleans up redirect categories. Multichill (talk) 16:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
There is a suggestion that there needs to be a more public (not only via user talk pages) discussion of this problem here. Personally, I would like to know if the blocking of the bot expires before promised.... -- carol (talk) 00:52, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
The bot scribbled on my image Image:Lee Canyon road end.jpg just 12 hours after I uploaded it and put it in a gallery, 28 June. People had previously asked you to not have the bot demand categorization on images already in galleries, and that's the request you ignored. Stan Shebs (talk) 12:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Have your images or galleries been deleted? -- carol (talk) 13:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

How many days until images get deleted?

I uploaded a few images and purposely did not put category on them. My idea was that it would make it easy to get them deleted. How long do I have to wait for the easy deletion? Two weeks sounds good to me if anyone cares. -- carol (talk) 13:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Uncategorised files that will be deleted because of that? Are you mistaken or purposely trying to ...? Siebrand 13:53, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Carol, you lost me here. What are you talking about? Multichill (talk) 15:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Deletions happen here. I thought that this would be an easier way to cause a deletion. I am sorry if I am mistaken and the bot does make the deletion of images that simple, but deletion of things is that simple for others here; hence my confusion. -- carol (talk) 20:44, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
You got me confused here. What has tagging as uncategorized to do with deleting pictures? Could you also respond in the flora topic? Multichill (talk) 20:53, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I left two messages, one in a area and another here, on a User talk page to see which way it would go. I did leave some images where the bot could manage them to see what the bot would do after tagging them, this is a fact. Personally, I have written some software but I have spent more time investigating what software (and the systems that employ it) can and will do. It is interesting on both sides. -- carol (talk) 23:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)