User talk:Para/2008-08-08

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Mapping template[edit]

The reason i keep using the one template in question is because it not only allows people to go to the geohack link, but it gives the four best (IMHO) mapping services up front, so people don't have to scroll through the geohack page. --Evrik 18:38, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

  • The template I have been using is not 'my own template, but one cribbed from the I still am having trouble with the monobook. {{Location dec}} is perfectly fine, but let me ask you this, can the encoding on {{Location dec}} to look like {{Geolinks-US-hoodscale}}? I care little about the internal coding, but more about the visible output. Evrik 18:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


Compass Card.png The Geocoding Barnstar
I hereby award you the Geocoding Barnstar for your tireless work in this area. Keep it up! gobeirne 19:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm amazed at your accuracy with some of these placements - I'm fairly certain you can't have actually been to all of them! - gobeirne 21:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
All thanks go to the good resolution satellite images that have been made available to us free of charge. I wish I had visited all those places myself, but no, most of my travels are from the bird eye perspective on Google Earth, together with photos from Commons and other sites. My strategy to find an image's camera location is to spot two or more noticable items that are somehow aligned with one another in the image, find the items in the satellite view, and then draw a line towards the direction of the camera in relation to the reference points. Other items in the foreground of the image will most often be found intersecting with the line drawn, and the camera location is a bit further down the line. And yes, I'm enjoying every moment of it, best armchair traveling ever! :) --Para 22:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

One more vote for The Geocoding Barnstar[edit]

Thanks for fixing the geocodes (reasonable rounding and adding the headings) I added yesterday! I now feel that I have good chances to get help in geocoding my image Image:RomaStPeterColumns.jpg where I gave up yesterday. I noticed that I lost memory where exactly I shot the image whether it was in the northern (about 41°54′10.91″N 12°27′28.35″E / 41.9030306°N 12.457875°E / 41.9030306; 12.457875) or southern (about 41°54′4.79″N 12°27′24.85″E / 41.9013306°N 12.4569028°E / 41.9013306; 12.4569028) colonades. I think the time (8:00-10:00) of day which I added to the image description is definitely wrong if I look at the shadows. In case it was in the afternoon (about 14:00 when we were as this place as well as in the morning the shadows would fit well for the southern colonades. The problem I have is, that you seldomly have this place without any people and that's why my first thought was that it must be a shot in the morning. You seem to be familiar with Roma and thus I wonder whether you might be able to help out here. Many thanks again for your tagging. Andreas Tille 06:13, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I haven't been there myself, though looking at it through geocoded images here and elsewhere together with aerials is close. :) Seeing how the sun in that photo shines from the left and the row of columns curves to the right, it could indeed be either the far east end of the northern side taken in the morning, or somewhere in the southern side. I think the key to finding which, is recognising the building that is barely visible between some of the columns. None of the buildings on the south side St Peter's Square, Vatican City - April 2007.jpg have that railing of short columns at the top, the orientation and windows doesn't fit with the style of the southwest extension of the colonnade, so it can't be anything else but the building on the northeast side. That gives a general location, but for the exact one you'd have to find lots of well geocoded images underneath the colonnade [1] to find the lamps and patterns in the ceiling, but I'm not sure resources that good are available anywhere yet. Thanks for the challenge! --Para 14:53, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I completely agree that the key is the barely visible building between the columns - but I was not aware of this nice overview image. It fits totally my memory that I took the best quality images in the morning. If I take for sure the North-Eastern colonades I'm quite sure about the specific point where I placed my tripod. For a more general question I would like to know whether there is a chance to give some information about the exactness of the placement. For instance I know that I shot this image at a specific trail but don't know exactly the point of the shot. The problem is that if I just leave out some precision of the coordinates the point will leave the trail. If I adjust to some point at the trail (which I would regard as a reasonable information) the exact coordinates would lead to the conclusion that the exact point is really known (which is not the case). So I would like to add the information "+/- 1km" or something like that. Any idea how to accomplish this? Andreas Tille 19:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
There's been some discussion about that at Commons talk:Geocoding#Accuracy and Commons talk:Geocoding#Quality, but nothing concrete has come out of it. There would probably be few people conscientious enough to indicate that their geocoding is inaccurate, though it would be useful for big batches of inaccurately geocoded images where others could guess just how inaccurate it is. If you have an idea, please share your thoughts on the discussion page there. --Para 22:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)



Thanks for updating the geolocation of my Rüdigerhof pictures! In the future, I will tag my pictures with the camera location. As a newcomer into Geotagging, I wonder what "|heading:NEbE" is used for. Where can I find the list of the options I can use with {location}? the preceding unsigned comment was added by Afernand74 (talk • contribs)

Hi Para! Thanks a lot for fixing up my images of Notre-Dame :-) Cheers, bdesham  16:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for updating my pictures too, your geolocation is the most accurate ever. Greudin 20:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure! Thanks to you all for the great photos, I enjoyed the detective work of finding the camera location with every single one of them. Lately I've been working on geocoding images from Paris, and the city is now pretty well represented on GeoCommons. If you want to geocode your own photos or any others, the geocodingtodo tool gives a gallery of remaining work. Keep them images coming. :) --Para 22:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks from me too for geocoding a couple of my pics. I'd be happy to geocode the other ones as well, as I see you didn't manage to do all of them. I guess the satellite pics don't extend underground... :-) Of course, one day (well, the technology already exists, so someone probably already does it), all cameras will add geolocation and direction of lens (north, south, etc) as standard. Possibly even elevation above some standard zero level benchmark. Translating that to elevation above or below the local terrain will be more tricky. Could you point me to pages that explain who I should geocode my pics? Thanks. My talk page hasn't been created yet, so feel free to start it! Carcharoth (Commons) 10:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks from me too :) Will read up on the camera heading stuff. Deadstar 08:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome! The camere heading is not essential, but with tools that visualise the information it's very useful in busy areas. --Para 08:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for helping to fend off the vandalism to my user space![edit]

Your help is very much appreciated!   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 00:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Croton Dam pics[edit]

Thanks for updating the location to reflect the camera position on Image:Croton Dam Muskegon River Dscn1080 cropped.jpg... I had figured that giving the location of the dam itself and using a locator map would be sufficient. I wonder if the location that ought to be given ought to be the dam itself? Or both? Or maybe that should be noted in the image description? Where is this discussed further? Also, I'm not a big fan of DMS, I like decimal, does the template you changed to have a decimal version available the way {{location dec US}} does ? I'll watch here for replies. Note that there are a lot of other images in that category that I uploaded... before you change more maybe we should talk these items through? ++Lar: t/c 14:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

There's been talk on Commons talk:Geocoding about whether we should use the camera or the object location, and the consensus has been on the camera location as it's more unique. There's a lot to read there if you're interested. My personal take is that we should continue geocoding images with the camera location, and prepare a new framework for annotating all the objects in images, with links to Commons categories, Wikipedia articles, and possibly the object location if we want to duplicate the information from Wikipedia. Magnus has put together some Javascript to do the first part [2], but I don't think anyone has worked on the rest yet. Maybe the rest would require the like of Semantic MediaWiki really.
{{Location dec}} (alias location dec US) is the decimal equivalent for {{Location}}, though you probably already know that since you created the templates. Personally I prefer entering coordinates in dms format, but I don't have any preference on what the image pages end up displaying. Some people obviously do though, so maybe we should show both or add a user preference for it. On the English Wikipedia the coord template computes both, but by default displays only one, and if users wish they can add a css rule to display only the other. Something like that would help here.
About your images: I noticed them through the recent geocoding changes list, and I always see red when there are a bunch of images geocoded with the exact same coordinates, since it makes browsing them on a map so much harder. Unfortunately Google doesn't have high resolution imagery of the area, so I went to see Microsoft Virtual Earth imagery (through Flash Earth through a Google Earth tool), where the resolution is much better. That's a bit more effort than I usually do, but the accuracy should be pretty good. The little map on the side is a nice add, let's hope WikiMiniAtlas gets hold of material in that quality so we could create such maps for all images. --Para 15:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
OK I'm fine with the camera as the primary location... but I do think there's value in the location of the subject of the pic being somewhere in the description. I should note that the little map given for that dam provides only rough camera locations in some cases, I was running out of room for more circle/letters and in some cases it was "take a pic, walk 5m, take another 2" etc... I'll go off and read on some of the other stuff. I think actually if you feed in 0 for the M and S, you can use decimal degrees even in the DMS version :) Stand back, because I have two more dams to upload "soonish"... once I get their location maps drawn (converted from bitmaps and cleaned up is more like it). I love those little maps... see Category:Irving Dam, Thornapple River (Michigan) or Category:US Army Transportation Museum... (for which I have 200 images I need to categorise and upload...) :) ++Lar: t/c 19:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

PD-Art in France[edit]

Hi Para. Actually, your impression is right: the jurisprudence is utterly, totally and completely contradictory. The very same court (cour d'appel de Paris) said "nay" to PD-Art in 2001 and 2006 and "yea" in 2005. All I can say is that doctrine inclines towards "yea". Jastrow (Λέγετε) 16:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


Hello Para, what is the OTRS:909410? I have not access there. The website does have not permitted the image on Wikipedia? (press only). I only speak in spanish, sorry for my english. Thanks. Anders-H 18:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

It is an old message from May stored on Commons:OTRS/es. The message does not confirm everything mentioned in Commons:Modelos de mensajes. All permission messages must confirm all the points, or the images will be deleted. --Para 19:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


Hello, could you write a little info.php, where we can see how many image are geocoded? A monthly history of this count could offcouse also be interesting.

Annother thing, could you make your database readable like I do with my database u_kolossos_p? We spoke with river to do this and work with sql-VIEWs. I have no concrete plans, but a view to the layout and the datas could be interesting for me or someone else. Thanks. --Kolossos 18:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Number of geocoded images on Commons
There's an Info item in GeoCommons.kml already with the count of each "folder". I'm hoping to move the nature photos to yet another folder one day but haven't figured out how yet. I've got the numbers of geocoded images on Commons since March, and the growth is unfortunately only linear, so not very interesting yet. With sharing the database the problem at the moment is that I have to keep moving it between servers wherever the Commons database happens to be the least lagged, and so would need a shared database on every server. That's not practical for users to find (or to keep up to date either!), so perhaps it would be enough to setup one database where the data is updated once a day or so?
By the way, I wrote an interface to get coordinates for all articles in a category using your data, and people on the English Wikipedia are spreading it a lot! See the map links in the categories here. Would be good if sk got the page names to match those in the Wikipedia database, so I could run on your views directly instead of on fixed copies. --Para 12:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I talk with german community at Commons:Forum#Geocoding and make some edits at the german Wikipedia to make the grow progressive. I hope so. They ask what template they should use for photos of germany with decimal input, because Template:Location dec is a redirect to Template:Location_dec_US and there are two links which work only in US. Perhaps you have an idea.
What you say by the way was interesting and I give sk a hint to your which. For the database a monthly dump would also be ok. Thanks for the diagram. --Kolossos 19:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for spreading The Word. :) If anyone brings up any bigger issues, they should probably be discussed on Commons:Geocoding as well. About the links; many people on the English Wikipedia have mentioned the same thing, because over there there are many templates that have a different set of map links, and people can't agree whether to use the templates with links or not. My opinion on that is that geocoding templates should only have the GeoHack link and perhaps some Commons-specific links if any exist. Any additional links should be added with Javascript. I wrote a script once to do something like that, but it needs work to be easily customisable. We'll also need to work on improving the GeoHack interface so that people won't complain about having to use it, and we could try to find a way to include some of it inside the geocoding templates. Someone just needs to start coding... --Para 00:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

GeoCommons images in Google Earth[edit]

Hi Para. Forgive me if this information is already available somewhere, but do you know of any plans Google has to make the GeoCommons images appear in Google Earth by default? That is, rather than manually downloading the GeoCommons.kml file, GeoCommons appears as part of the Geographic Web list alongside Wikipedia and Panoramio. Surely 15830 images (and counting) makes it worthwhile for them. Cheers :) - gobeirne 03:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

  • P.S. You'll notice I've now geocoded virtually all of my 250+ images - it's addictive! :) - gobeirne 03:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I haven't heard of any. Gmaxwell worked together with Google to prepare the data for the Wikipedia layer, but I think the initiative for that came from their end. I think the recent change in Google Earth to less service-descriptive icons could be a sign of the possibility of other services perhaps becoming available through the application in the future, but that's just guessing. It would certainly be a great way to make our images more visible and would likely encourage many new contributors to join, but the problem with our images compared to what GE is showing now is that they have usage data available of the Panoramio images, which they then use to select the images. We would need a similar way to filter out or score lower the images that don't interest most people (bugs!), but other than using quality and featured images only, I haven't found any solution. Using categories would be nice and clean, but see for example the categories your StPetersBasilica01 gobeirne.jpg ends up in; impossible to start excluding some images by parent categories.
Good work on geocoding all your photos! It's surprisingly addictive really, and perhaps it'll make you go and shoot some more good photos so that you'll have more to geocode? :) --Para 13:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Definition of heading[edit]

Dear Para,

I assume I should mark with the geotag the position of the camera, not that of the object. How do I define the heading from the Google Earth, only by estimation, by eyes?

Regards--Szilas 15:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes the camera location gives much more information about the image than one of its object locations. You can use an approximate heading if you like, but since you have Google Earth already, it's also possible to add a compass overlay for help, see instructions at Commons:Geocoding#Parameters. --Para 16:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Many tx!--Szilas 05:37, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Problem with GeoCommons[edit]

Statistics in Google Earth show only 14453 images. My recent uploads from Santa Clara, California are not shown. Could you please take a look? Thank you. --EugeneZelenko 14:58, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know! The data was read from an old database and the updates went elsewhere, my mistake. Looking at the graph, it seems it's been stuck like that for a month! I fixed it now, and the number of images is up to 17819. I use the database through a localhost setup of my own, so I had no idea something was broken. Thanks again! --Para 15:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for help! --EugeneZelenko 16:16, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Image:X PICT0078.jpg[edit]

You added a location to Image:X PICT0078.jpg, but why did you add "heading:40" ? I don't see any difference on google Maps...  ? - Erik Baas 22:58, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

That's the camera viewpoint direction, described on Commons:Geocoding#Parameters. I just added a couple of links to all geocoded images to visualize the information, so you should see the difference now. --Para 23:57, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't see it. Am I correct in assuming it will only have any effect in Google Earth ? - Erik Baas 22:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
It's best seen on Google Earth, but works fine on Google Maps too, try here. --Para 22:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Please tell me what the difference is between that view, and this one (apart from the small WP-logo)... - Erik Baas 22:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Your link doesn't use Commons as a data source for placemarks. The orientation of the little Commons icon shows which direction the camera was facing. It's a bit more useful on busy areas, such as in Paris. --Para 23:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Right, I see it now. The problem is in the icon: I didn't realise it was pointing in some direction ! Maybe because it is so small, or maybe because there was just one on the first example. Thanks for explaining. :-) - Erik Baas 00:25, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

en.wikipedia and google earth[edit]

I don't know if you have an answer for this question...none of the more recent articles I have stubbed on that have coordinates, are showing up as icons in google earth. Articles more than about 3 months old have, but none newer are hyperlinking. I would have guessed it might be a hyperlink problem between the websites if I was either using a different coordinates template than I have in the past or if no article were showing small icons in google earth. Any suggestions? All my geocoded images via Commons are doing fine and have been appearing...--MONGO 06:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

A straight answer may not have been written anywhere, though it certainly is a frequently asked question. The reason for the problem you're seeing is that for Wikipedia placemarks Google Earth uses database dumps of the English Wikipedia, which are not renewed very often, and Google's updating schedule is even slower. In their Geographic Web Layer FAQ they say the data is updated every one to three months. You can see how old data they're using by looking at the contributions of someone who adds lots of coordinates, such as The Anomebot2. He has tagged articles on September 11, which all seem to be visible on Google Earth, while articles tagged on 22 September are not visible, so Google Earth is using a database dump from somewhere between those dates. The reason Commons images show up so quickly is that the data source used is not Google, but the Toolserver, which has access to current data. There exists also another data source for Wikipedia placemarks, Wikipedia-World, but they haven't updated the data lately either. So unfortunately we'll all just have to wait. Perhaps contacting Google would help? --Para 11:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is good I found someone who understands these issues...much appreciated...I suppose it's just a matter of more patience on my part. Thanks again!--MONGO 18:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


Why are you changing all those geo tags on the Philadelphia articles? The template you're using doesn't have the same ouput (and drops topozone). Before I go and reert them, I thought I'd ask. Evrik 21:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I remember noticing that some of the images from Philadelphia were not geocoded at the camera location and didn't have the camera viewport heading, so I fixed that. There has recently been some changes in the links the location templates display, that's true, so if they're not consistent we need to work on making all the templates show the same links instead of changing to another data entry template. If you'd like a quick solution, I could write you some Javascript that adds your favourite map links to all the templates? --Para 21:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Camera heading[edit]


I think that the ENE camera heading you added to this picture is correct, but I wonder ow you guessed [3]. --Javier ME 22:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Easy! I used Google Earth, where it's possible to have a full screen size compass on top of the placemark, and then look where the object around the middle of the image (here the church) is in the satellite image and which compass point is on that object. --Para 23:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


I made a local copy of GeoCommons-simple.kml, but when I use it (in exactly the same way as the original) the icons don't show on the map until I move the map a little bit, and I can't figure out why. Do you have any idea ? - Erik Baas 00:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

That's odd, but KML support in Google Maps is bound to have some bugs as it's still relatively new. It seems to work if you replace the z parameter with spn though. A bug report to Google ought to fix that. By the way, would you mind changing the Commons images icon on your page to the usual Image:Commons-logo.svg? I only added the round one after a request for a non-directional icon. Ideally, the round one should never be seen. --Para 15:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Changing the URL seems to have solved the problem; thanks a lot ! :-) And I changed the icon (i.c. commons/favicon.ico). - Erik Baas 21:39, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Image:Car in Oradour-sur-Glane.JPG[edit]

I've seen you've updated this file with the Camera location template but I was curious to know how you determined it and I was skeptical to see 45°55′45.6″N, 1°2′20.7″E when Wikipedia articles about Oradour-sur-Glane indicate 45°55′58″N, 1°1′57″E (i.e. on WP en). I can understand that the articles mitgh speak about the city hall and there is of course a little difference but how did you know more precisely where the picture was taken? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 18:07, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

It was some fascinating detective work. :) A map on and the coordinates of de:Centre de la mémoire hint where the ruins and the memorial centre can be found in a satellite image. Then using the maps of the ruins from I can find the features from Google's satellite image, though the resolution is almost not enough. A number of sources say the car is at the Fairgrounds, and images taken from the front of the car here on Commons and on show a T-crossing behind the car. On that site the text and the images mention the Beaulieu garage[4] many times, and according to the map and the text it's across the square to the west, while there's another image of the side next to the car, through the block towards the Laudy barn. So I'm fairly confident that that's the correct location, though I've never been there myself. Hopefully it won't take too many years to get better images of the area so that the car could actually be seen from above and I could verify my guess. --Para 19:06, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Well I must congratulate you because I've just checked it out and it appears that you're totally right (if my memory of the location is correct). Even for the heading. Bravo! --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 19:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

re. FlickrLickr deletions[edit]

Eek - I never realised the creative commons extract on that template's page, and hence never realised that those images should be kept. I must have misinterpreted Category:Possibly unfree Flickr images...*slaps forehead* Anyway, I'll go to undo the deletions, but I can't access DeLinker at the moment (FireFox says the server can't be found), so I'm not sure what'll happen there. Apologies, and thanks for clearing that up. Giggy\Talk 06:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorting out a permission request to undelete an image[edit]

Hello Para, Can you advise me of the proper wording required from the authors to get the following images undeleted. Davepape pointed me in your direction:

I emailed a formatted permission from the author to the Permissions email address on September 26th worded thus:

I hereby assert that I am the creator and/or sole owner of the exclusive copyright of Image:MalsplendS532-1.jpg [5]. I agree to publish that work under the free license GFDL [choose at least one from ]. I acknowledge that I grant anyone the right to use the work in a commercial product, and to modify it according to their needs. I am aware that I always retain copyright of my work, and retain the right to be attributed in accordance with the license chosen. Modifications others make to the work will not be attributed to me. I am aware that the free license only concerns copyright, and I reserve the option to take action against anyone who uses this work in a libelous way, or in violation of personality rights, trademark restrictions, etc. I acknowledge that I cannot withdraw this agreement, and that the image may or may not be kept permanently on a Wikimedia project. 25/9/07, Rob Drummond

The person chose GDFL but forgot to delete the choosing bit. Can you let me know what to do now. Is this OK? Does the person need to resend via me with the licence choosing bit removed? Casliber 20:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


Additionally I alerted the author of this image which I uploaded and I was CCed on a permission which was sent through to Permissions in September as well.Casliber 20:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

The permission email for Image:MalsplendS532-1.jpg was fine and it's tagged accordingly, no worries. The other images however had inadequate "permission to use on Wikipedia" type of statements, which do not fulfill the conditions on Commons:Licensing#Acceptable licenses, required for all files here on Commons. If you can still forward emails that follow Commons:Email templates, please do so and the images will be undeleted. --Para 22:23, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for your help, sorry for my mistake.--Szilas 08:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


Hello Para, please take a look at my edit against the deletion of the buttons: --Kolossos 13:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I understand the frustration, but that community seems to be very confused on copyright. The original work for the logo is not freely licensed, and unless the people who have made derivatives have permission from the original designer, their works are copyright violations that can't be distributed on Commons. Most of the internet is not conscientious enough with these, and that's why there are so many of us here verifying license information. --Para 17:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok. --Kolossos 21:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


Hi! Please can you delete Image:shmenonpie.jpg, I have specified reasons now as well as undertaking the necessary procedures with my utmost validity. Thank you,*
*(Terms and conditions apply) 18:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC).

Done! --Para 18:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Many thanks*
*(Terms and conditions apply) 22:41, 7 March 2008 (UTC).

Commons images on YLE website[edit]

Hi Para,
as you put the "published"-notification on Image talk:At Home With Evel Knievel.jpg, Image talk:Chris-Daughtry.jpg, Image talk:Nail polish drop.jpg, Image talk:Oscar5.jpg and for several other images, published on this finnish website YLE, did you notice that for none of the above listed images, that are all licensed CC-BY-.., YLE has attributed the photographer/author? As you speak Finnish, could you eventually contact them (YLE) in order to correct that? You may tell them that "When re-using the work or distributing it, you must attribute the work to the author(s) and you must mention the license terms or a link to them."[6] As for the above mentioned link, they may simply copy the link out of the section Licensing on the image page. Thanks. -- Túrelio 22:06, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly they did it correct for Image talk:Donald Trump and wife Melania.jpg, Image talk:P10307511.jpg and Image talk:Db-bimdzf269xxx-00.jpg, but again not for Image talk:Federal Reserve.jpg, Image talk:Fort Denison 5.JPG, Image talk:Greenland-glacier hg.jpg, Image talk:SchollgirlsreturningIndia.jpg, Image talk:Radiohead Blackpool Thom Yorke guitar.jpg, Image talk:Rowan Williams -001.jpg, Image talk:Bjork Hurricane.jpg, Image talk:Ronaldo gol.jpg and Image talk:Polisario troops.jpg. -- Túrelio 22:16, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes indeed, and the published template seems to be doing a good job waking people up to it, I've had some emails already. I can contact them once I've finished going through their site. So far I have only googled for the CC ones. Too bad so many of them are from Flickr and not from Commons people, but the source is obviously Commons since all the CC images I found on their site were here as well. --Para 23:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
´Thanks. Many of the images I've checked somehow mentioned Commons but not the author/photographer. Interestingly, most of the Flickr images from authors with strange and often hard to find "names", were attributed correctly, as opposed to those by Commons contributors with easy to find (on the image description page) names. -- Túrelio 08:48, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Image:Victoria Cross Medal Ribbon & Bar.jpg[edit]

Thanks for the notification of the image use in YLE. Its nice to know people are actually using the images supplied. :o) Perhaps you could also ask them to attribute it, whilst mentioning the others above! Richard Harvey 15:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

How to contact them[edit]

It's best if copyright holders contact the license infringing company themselves as well. Here's how:

Go to, choose "YLE Uutiset (tv, internet, teksti-tv)" in the first dropdown, write your name to the second field and your email address to the third. "Lähetä" will send your message written in the big field. --Para 23:59, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

CC citation at YLE[edit]

Dear Para, following your advice to send a request to YLE for using correct citations on wikipedia images ( they have answered the following: Am 10 Mar 2008 um 07:33 schrieb Dear Mr. Grobe, we found the article where the picture was attached without the author name. Now, I have added your name on the by-line. I also informed other journalist working at our desk about citing the author when this information is available. Best regards, Pasi Partanen, Journalist, YLE Uutiset/online, Finnish Broadcasting Company thank you for your help, Hannes Grobe 12:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Usage of Geocoding for panorama-images[edit]

Hello Para, I'm working on a new project to show the places of Wikipedia-objects on an pananorama image. You can see a pre-alpha version of this script:

I know there is still a lot to do: language-support, scaling the image, usage of diferent images via url, working with lens-deformation, schripting against overlapping of letters, a documentation... . I hope that I come fast to a point where I can create a template to save the parameters in Commons. The definition of the left an right angle is in the moment difficult handwork, perhaps you have a idea for this problem. Or do you have other ideas? What do you think about? --Kolossos 19:14, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that's quite an ambitious project!! The biggest problem is probably in finding the right parameters: the image itself from the camera can be different in so many ways already, and then there's still the ground elevation, which is totally unknown to us in both camera and object locations. If however there were reference points for one or two objects in the image, the others in view might end up close enough. For that we'd need something à la Photo Tourism project, or Flickr style image annotation, but has there been any progress with it lately? --Para 11:42, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
The basic idea was to pick known points to triangulate deduce the lens parameters. An image annotation feature could be used for that. As for ground elevation, there are webservices who provide it. I experimented with SIFT keypoint finding on the toolserver to create something similar to phototourism, but the computational cost is still gigantic. --Dschwen 12:57, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I try to make it easy. Additionally to Commons:Geocoding I only replace the rough heading parameter by an angle between the North Pole and the left side of the image and the same with the right side (counter-clockwise). Thats all. It's also very simple mathematics to positioning the objects above the image. I want to ignore the elevation of the objects. All object names should be above the image and the user should look what he can found under this labels. One problem I see in the using the ground elevation is that panomaras like the example image are deformated by the panorama program to get a straight horizon. An other problem I see is that the top of i.e. a church is very different from ground level, but the ground level in normally hidden in a city panorama. I see also the advantage that we need so only 2 object for calibration. I know this calibration should be more interactive. For the begining I use a protractor on the front side of the monitor and google earth. A possibility to make a manual fine tuning would be perhaps a good idea. So the user would be able to move the height position of the label and remove some, but than we should use a commons subpage to save the parameters.
I know that this project is only usefully for few of the commons images, because the most images shows only one object in the center of the image. So that's my plan and I have not really much time for it, if somebody what to try it more exactly or better, he should try it. Would it be ok to use this page for the next discussions until I publish the work on Commons:Geocoding? --Kolossos 13:47, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
How about we silently create a subpage for that, for example Commons:Geocoding/Annotations ? --Dschwen 14:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I think you've got something there, this might actually have a chance to work! Image annotation is probably the key here, since geographical coordinates linked to objects in the image can be used for many purposes, and we wouldn't be alone collecting information for a very specific application only. Then any image with a camera location and two annotated areas with geographical coordinates would be a candidate for this. When you've got a couple object locations, you wouldn't even need the heading anymore, and the lens angle could be calculated as well. I don't know anything about possible lens distortions though, but even though that, elevation and other fine tuning may be an issue at some point, I agree that it'd be very interesting to get the basic case working. You can do the honors of starting a new page Kolossos, this is bigger than my talk page can handle. :) --Para 15:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I move the script to toolserver and added some parameters:

Now it is also possible to change the language and scale the image: I know that not everything is perfect. I only want to ask for a good name for the project page: Commons:Geocoding/panorama tagger, Commons:Geocoding/panorama viewer, Commons:Geocoding/panorama overlay or something other? --Kolossos 21:33, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Following Commons:Geocoding/Overlay, the name for such a page could be Commons:Geocoding/Panorama. However, the point Dschwen had was that instead of giving pixel distances, people would be giving the geographical coordinates of objects in the image. With such an annotation the panoramas could still be shown, with a script counting the pixel distances behind the scenes. So what you have created now is half way there already, but when everything works, Commons:Geocoding/Annotation would cover this whole thing. --Para 13:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Then here the last image for you disk-page:

I will write unter the image a template generator for Template:Location-panorama, then everythink should be easy. I hope this is a good name for the template. I see no problem to seperate this template from Template:Location and the redundace because the camera position is an non-moving object so it's never change. --Kolossos 14:36, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Template:Location-Panorama works for the beginning. I play a little bit with CSS hover effect. --Kolossos 20:52, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I write a documentation under: Template:Location-Panorama. And I added a functionality to simple determinate the left and right angle values by clicks on two objects in the image. The new script moves the labels about the div_width/2 to the left. So it is correct, but I have to recalibrate all images, exeption is only Image:Fernsehturm_Berlin_Panorama_2007-03-15.jpg. -- Kolossos 14:08, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Persistent geocoding[edit]

Hello Para:

The image Image:Sierras de Famatina Chilecito.jpg was geocoded by mistake with wrong coordinates when it was uploaded. When the uploader realized that it was geocoded, he quit the location template but the image is still shown on the wrong coordinates on Google Earth. It should not be geocoded at all.

Barcex 22:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi! That's something I've never considered before. I do have a script running to remove data for deleted images, but not for when the location templates are deleted for some reason. Most images can be geocoded so in most cases it shouldn't be a problem, but mistakes can indeed happen sometimes... I queried a list of such images to see how many there are, see User:Para/Un-geocoding. There are lots of strange cases: images that should definitely be geocoded, images that had the geocoding in the upload summary but not on the page despite no edits, page blanking vandalism, etc. A really odd set. They need some review before I can think of anything automatic. --Para 02:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


Lähetin tuonne OTRS:ään tänään kuvan Nelson Piquet'stä haltijan suostumuksen kera. Milloin ja miten kuvan saa tänne?

Gecoding in Google Maps[edit]

Hello, do you have an idea why my Wikipedia-Layer [7] doesn't work anymore in Google Maps? My script is working at Google Earth fine and it is exactly the same script [8] in the network link and I have change nothing the last days. Your script ist working in Google maps without problems, so it es perhaps a different header or so. I believe it has something to do with google changes for her own Wikipedia-layer. Other question, could it be that the Toolserver-SQL-server is very slow today? --Kolossos 19:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm offline with my tools, also on GE, Toolserver is to slow today. --Kolossos 20:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Google Maps has quite a short timeout, so slow scripts won't work and Google shows a misleading error message. Maybe some http or kml dummy keepalive data would help? I hear the toolserver is getting a new web server to separate from the ssh sessions and cron jobs, so that might help as well. See for example Google's new Wikipedia layer, all it needs is lots of quick hardware... --Para 17:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the answer. My Google Earth tool is online again. I measure the times of my script. 0.003s need Php before the Mysql-Query and the same time after it. The problem is the database query which needs between 0.02s (far away) and 4 sec (nearly). So I don't believe that the new web server can help me, but a new server is ok because phpmyadmin is also very slow.

User:Dschwen give me the tip that mysql-proxy could also help me for my performance problems. Because it could be a way to define a timeout and a rule that only the last query of a user go to the database. But I have no experience with mysql-proxy. So we will see what the future brings. --Kolossos 18:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC) P.S.: Commons:Geocoding/Panorama is now ready. The problem seem to be solved. --Kolossos (talk) 20:30, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello, my actually work is the support of (via Google Maps):

With access to there database are also some funny, new applications for Wikipedia possible:

It's not ready yet,but you can see the direction of the developing. So we would only need to save the query in Wikipedia to describe object we can't good geocoding with only one point. Greetings --Kolossos (talk) 20:30, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Cool! OpenStreetMap would be a very compatible project with Wikipedia, and something like that could solve the problem people have had defining geographical elements that can't reasonably be covered with a single point. I remember Magnus Manske has been doing OpenStreetMap related things as well. I'll definitely have to read more about this! --Para (talk) 20:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Usage of Image:Breidamerkurjoekull.jpg[edit]

Thanks for the hint about the usage of my photo. I have the problem that I do not understand Finish language and thus I can not really know whether I like the usage or not - but probably it is OK by mentioning author and license and in general I tend to support reports about climate change. Thanks for your detective work. ;-)) Andreas Tille 06:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

deprecated function in your monobook.js[edit]

Dear user, I noticed that you use the includePage function in your monobook.js page.

This function is now obsolete, as the importScript function was introduced with rev:35064 to the MediaWiki Javascript core library wikibits.js. It also keeps track of already imported files.

To allow us to remove includePage from Mediawiki:Common.js I'd kindly ask you to replace its use with importScript (same syntax!). Thanks! --Dschwen 17:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Filtered GeoCommons and/or GeoCommons-simple[edit]

Hi Para. Is there a way to create a kml file that is filtered to include only files with certain naming patterns, or those uploaded by a certain user? Such a feature would have a number of useful applications, I think. Does it sound like a tricky task? Cheers - gobeirne 04:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

That would probably be a useful feature, yes. It shouldn't be too hard implement, it just needs some monotonous coding for a query interface and structures to carry the filtering things all the way to the database. I'll look into it at some point. --Para 08:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the camera headings![edit]

I noticed you added camera headings to my geotags. I totally agree. I will do that too from now on! --Specious (talk) 06:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Good good! For me seeing that a placemark has the camera heading is a good sign of quality, otherwise it's always up for review. --Para (talk) 06:10, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
It's hard to calculate the heading in my tool of choice though. I know there's a compass in Google Earth, but G.E. doesn't give me enough accuracy in the geolocation. (Or is that as accurate as the satellite data allows anyway? I can place my dot very accurately sometimes just looking at the satellite view.) I try to be very meticulous when geocoding. --Specious (talk) 07:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Heh, the number of decimals from that tool is a bit silly. If 6 decimals is roughly 10 cm precision, 15 decimals is for something very, very small. I put one or two at most. If you compare the location using different map services from the coordinates link, you'll see that there's some shift between services, so the satellite or aerial images aren't really that accurate. Or maybe one is, but which? Anyway, for the heading I always use the GE compass tool and it's easy to go to a location and place the compass overlay there even if the coordinates came from somewhere alse. --Para (talk) 07:22, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh right, my one or two decimals are for the dms format, which corresponds to about 5 or 6 in fully decimal format. --Para (talk) 07:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Attack Cake[edit]

Chocolate cake with white icing.JPG Chocolatefortcake.jpg Atomicfudge1.JPG GermanChocolateCake.jpg
6-te urodziny Wikipedii w Krakowie aa.JPG 5. urodziny polskiej Wikipedii - Wikitort 01.JPG Layered cake with cream.JPG Roberta's WikiCake.jpg
Gateau de bon mariage.jpg Dobos tort.jpg Pound layer cake.jpg Red velvet cake with whipped cream blueberries and strawberries.jpg
The attack cake is NOT a lie. Enjoy. --ShakataGaNai ^_^ 05:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

kml file with path[edit]

Hello, I’m working on roman roads in northern gaul, cfr. (fr:Chaussée Brunehaut). I have for some time now, many kml files with the path of each of them. I don’t find any tutorial for uploading this files for Wikipédia. Can’t you help me ? I have found you because the very good news you posted a pair of days to anonce to fixing of the google map’s bug. Something else, I have a OTRS pending at Image:Brunehildis_miniature.jpg, a very important image for my work. Can you, please, take a look at it and let me know if something is wrong. Thank you. Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 07:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

The MediaWiki installation in Wikimedia projects doesn't support kml as a file type, so using kml files directly doesn't work. Some Commons people have done kml overlays to show images of old maps over satellite images, and a tool was created to copy the kml correctly, but it seems to have broken since then. I'll check with the author of the tool about that.
On Wikipedia, there are some mixed opinions on details that precise. The English Wikipedia has many articles with multiple coordinates in them, and some linear features such as en:Alberta Highway 2 have many of its points listed in the article. The article links to a tool of mine, kmlexport, which shows the points on Google Maps. It would be possible to add an option to the tool to make it connect the dots and make a path out of them instead of using icons, so that the kml you have could be generated dynamically. On the English Wikipedia some however think that Wikipedia articles aren't the place for so many coordinates, or that if an article needs to point a location, the coordinates should be visible on the page. So at the moment, there isn't really a way to have that information on Wikipedia, but maybe there will be later?
I couldn't find anything for the image on OTRS. Commons:When to use the PD-Art tag has some general information, though not on Belgium. It would be nice to get the publisher's or photographer's blessing of the public domain status if possible, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. --Para (talk) 12:48, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Para, for your informations ans suggestions. If really no path is possible, an image ( a vectoriel one ? ) as overlay is problably the best way to show the path of old no more used roads. But on my box the samples found at Category:Geographic Overlays don’t work as you have said I think. To show you what I would like to do, here is the code of two roads

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<kml xmlns="">
	<name>Bavay - Gembloux.kml</name>
	<Style id="visib_roads">
		<name>Bavay - Gembloux</name>
3.798172815198368,50.29805929514789,0 3.806047359158359,50.29993204809418,0 3.846372027063029,50.31132407084554,0 3.91013617967119,50.32888170608037,0 4.237381400675532,50.44774499121322,0 4.256093349899358,50.45494571502411,0 4.258101425495088,50.45534804412234,0 4.304588539187615,50.47075968249327,0 4.600366038139688,50.54831711780731,0 4.662104450218839,50.56472989750115,0 </coordinates>
		<name>Bavay - Morialmé</name>
3.798118719282142,50.29767602086088,0 4.050658997334263,50.2887356025935,0 4.538417492916548,50.27146669171921,0 </coordinates>

As you can see this road is not easily visible without the help of this kml. On the second road, not so far of my home, I have geocoded some photo that already show the path. They are small file because old roman roads are very straight and may be smaller file because the point do not need so great precision.

For the OTSR pending, I have sent a mail with the scan of the official authorisation to at Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:29 with the title « Image:Brunehildis miniature.jpg ». I have wrote it in english but I see now the -fr in the receiver name. May I do something else ? Thank you Para. Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 16:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

The links on the geographic overlay pages have now been fixed and the tool modified to accept any page. So technically there is a possibility to put the above kml on a subpage somewhere and link to it the same way the image overlay pages are linking, without needing to convert it to an image.
J'ai trouvé le message et pour l'instant c'est traité. Dans la plupart des cases le mieux est d'utiliser un message standard pour éviter tout malentendu. --Para ( ) 01:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Para. You are the man. I will make now some tests. And will used the Déclaration de consentement if I need another third party document Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 06:56, 7 August 2008 (UTC) PS: All I get when I clic on any {{overlay}} is an empty kml.php (0 length) that launch my GE application with no data. Is it only on my box ? Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 07:49, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, Image:Para/overlay.kml doesn't exist, so naturally the tool gives an empty kml when asked for that kml. If you use the tool with a page that does exist, like on Image:Plan de Paris 1589-1643 BNF07710699.png for example, it should work fine. --Para ( ) 09:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I really didn’t mean Image:Para/overlay.kml when I wrote any {{overlay}}. And yes, your sample with Paris work fine, and the others at Category:Geographic Overlays now too. But the only way is, (with my debian) to save the file (defaut name is kml.php), rename it to .kml and open it with GE. If I open it with its default name kml.php, it don’t show anything. On the other hand, any .kml files on the net are well opened with my GE. Thank you, Para, now I can make some test. Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 12:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Try again please. --Dschwen (talk) 12:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Wow, perfect ! Thank you Dschwen. Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 13:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Work fine with kml path too. see Image:F-59570 Bavay, Colonne Brunehaut.JPG/overlay.kml. You may delete the kml file (not the image). Thanks once again Para and Dschwen. I’am new to vectorial graphic. I have installed Inkscape. not so hard to trace a few lines but I have found this page KML svg translation. Do you know it ? Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 13:14, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

May be delete content is enough because I read on the kml extention page « No file by this name exists... » and then I can do it myself. Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 13:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

First svg file and some problems: Image:Bavay - Gembloux.svg I don’t know why I can’t see the file, it is useless. I need some free road map as background. I have found a tool for kml convertion. I have deleted content of Image:F-59570 Bavay, Colonne Brunehaut.JPG/overlay.kml Jean-Louis Hens (talk) 17:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)