User talk:Rocket000/Archive 4

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Archive 1 - Archive 2 - Archive 3 - Archive 4 - Archive 5 - Archive 6 - Archive 7 - Archive 8


Image:I-81 (NY).svg[edit]

it's about time to deelte this file. It is not used on any page, and it's duplicate and repetitve to another file.--Freewayguy Call? Fish 21:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Gone. You know, I don't mind, but you don't have to tell an admin every time something needs deleting. If you add that {{duplicate}} tag, someone will get it eventually. Rocket000(talk) 01:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I know this. Sometimes I have to get this done slightly faster, becasue i was trying to move NY state-name to I-NY.svg. The old ones have to be deleted, before we can move images. The normal DR is the one will take a loooong time to process, anyways, now I seem to not have any images I want to be deleted, anyways...--Freewayguy Ask questions? See the sodas I've drank 17:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

help to think[edit]

There has been a change happening in the user names on different talk pages. Can you help me to think about that? User_talk:Orchi#Commons:COMBotBot one example where the "talk" in the link thing has turned into an underscore. There are a few other instances of this -- I know of one right now that I could show and there are others. Help me to think about this, my thoughts are starting with "WTF?" and so far not going any where from there. -- carol (talk) 07:06, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, a couple people were messing around with MediaWiki:Signature trying to make "talk" appear in whatever the users language. You have a custom sig (and now so do I) so we won't have this problem. You'll see <span class="signature-talk"> </span> in other people's sigs. Sometimes it disappears.. I don't know why. Some CSS thing. Rocket000(talk) 07:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, metawiki markers. Thank you. I am going to be leaving your bot to work and am anxious to see which of them surface first and what problem they have. ....something clever about mutton soup.... -- carol (talk) 07:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Heh.. I think I just solved the problem. Rocket000(talk) 07:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

real problems[edit]

I was interested to see what real problems surfaced today. Any idea when I should start looking for that? -- carol (talk) 18:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'll get to it right now. I was learning some cool new template skills. Check out {{species}}. It's taking and idea form Wikispecies and expanding. And that's only a fraction of what I've been working on. Rocket000(talk) 18:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Things I never considered, I think. Still trying to kick my grey matter into gear here though....
The list at User:Rocket000/Sandbox -- I am going to remove items from it which have the name the way previously discussed (Genus (family)), unless you can think of a better way.... -- carol (talk) 18:59, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
But isn't that important to know when we're making templates? Anyway, I can filter that list better before you begin. Rocket000(talk) 19:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, it's somewhat sorted now. Feel free to do whatever you want. Rocket000(talk) 19:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Hmm, I am not sure what my problem is today. It is either that my brain is running slowly or that I am on a different page or other. Let me tell you what I thought I was going to do today:
  1. Cease making my species templates due to them becoming obsolete very soon
  2. Go through your list to see if there is a problem with the Genus name and to put the family name there so a bot could move the images more simply. The Viola situation did not need to exist as nothing was using that category.
  3. Carefully read the problems that anyone complaining about images being moved from Genus (indexed) categories into the more simple Genus categories and learn or be bored with the lack of real problems.

I realize that the third item might be able to be accomplished via software but I also think that a review of it by human eyes would solve more problems than create them and then the simple software move should be almost 100% reliable.

It looks as if your template is going to add the species categories and galleries to the genus page texturally which is what I did to the genus to the tribe (or whatever the next was in the tree) but I did that because the genus names usually to not imply the next up, be it tribe or sub-tribe. I wanted to get the tree to be accurate and also make a list at the point in the tree of the genus and things that would need to be created. Listing the species in the genus already happens when the gallery and or the category are subcategorized there and it is easy to know they belong there due to the first part of the species name exactly matching the genus name? (I really might be "seeing things" or a more mild "on the wrong page"!!)

Then, an individual problem. The Category:Adenostyles glabra the only Flora I have which lists the name lists it as Category:Adenostyles alpina and the same with that web site which is doing the sequencing. It was moved on August 4 this year. It is gardening sites that list it with the other name. It should be moved back. To me, the gardeners "own" the common names, the cultivar and variety names but the sequencers "own" the latin species name. It should be moved back. -- carol (talk) 19:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

That's just a demo. The final product will do a lot more than list species or genera or anything. It's just one way of working with arrays. That same set of data (species names in the example) can be reused in may different ways—categorize, make visible lists (in any format, with or without red links/blue links), check to see what categories are empty, which ones have over 100 images, which ones have matching galleries, vice-versa, etc. etc. But like I said, I need to start off small. And if you look at the source of that template it's not as simple as it looks.
And I'll move that cat. Rocket000(talk) 19:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, the arrays look like the cake! The problem with arrays at the species level is the sheer number of species that exist and have been written about. Once most of the sequencing of these species is completed, I suspect the number of them will be reduced by a huge factor like there will be 1/5th to 1/10th a total number of them. The naming of species has been "fun" and is also very similar to the way that "star names" (astronomy) were sold in the eighties. Not all of them, but many of them.
If I could somehow "gently" point you to the genus for much of that array work! These are much more stable of a named entity, and the creation of the non-existing genus categories is a good step before the creation of species pages, at least I am kind of sure that is the more efficient way to go. Having the species template in good working order is a must also though -- so I don't want to accidentally point you at the wrong tree node.... -- carol (talk) 20:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok. I'll focus more on genera. It's just how my mind works; either I start from the bottom up or the top down. Rocket000(talk) 20:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Hehe.. I and figured some people wouldn't like it if I started throwing up red links all over like this. :D Rocket000(talk) 20:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I think that is beautiful!! It should be the next thing after the genus!! Also, mining wikispecies for species is not a bad way to get them and is perhaps the best way. Also, I understand that this template should be an incredibly good example of templates for so many other things -- I was just in the moons of a planet category, for instance. Cities in a province are the same kind of thing. Buildings in a city. Ballet positions, etc., etc., etc. The botany problems makes a complicated example that should make the template work for many different similar situations?
Yeah, the aster category page is beautiful.... -- carol (talk) 20:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Curches --> Churches[edit]

Hello Rocket, why did you undo my demand to correct Category:Curches in Trybsz into Category:Churches in Trybsz? Was my demand incorrect or incorrectly formulated? Can you make the correct demand? Havang (talk) 20:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

"request" is a nicer word with almost the same meaning, heh. -- carol (talk) 20:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC) Being dutch, talking better french than english, demand is probably a gallicism of me Havang (talk) 20:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC) Heh, Rocket is fairly flexible with the language. The word demand has an instant negative response from most native speakers. It does have a French filtered flavor to it though :) -- carol (talk) 20:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
That was because you tried to rename it to an Image:. I was going through those really fast, so I must have overlooked the misspelling. Sorry, I'll rename it right now. In the future, you may want to use {{move}} instead. Cheers, Rocket000(talk) 20:17, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
✓  Done Rocket000(talk) 20:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Havang (talk) 20:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

something that keeps hotcat and kin away from categories[edit]

I just made Category:Genera of Asteraceae and it has only just begun to be automatically filled. With this category which is automatically filled and other categories like Category:Hidden categories maybe there needs to be a something in the category that hotcat and commonsense and the others like that will know not to suggest it for an image page? -- carol (talk) 21:14, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's just that our our script writers are lazy or something. It can't be that hard to tell if a category contains __HIDDENCAT__ or not, right? Blacklists wouldn't be hard to make either. Rocket000(talk) 21:26, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, hidden categories seem to be much more obvious than some. "Lazy" is one of those interesting words like "conservation of resources" where to really achieve this, a little work is needed. One example, bugs don't bother with diet soda, so if I store the empties in the enclosure, washing them out before storing them is a wasted step -- I don't do it. Conservation of water and energy and due to the nature of the substance, no sticky mess either. Sugar included sodas are appealing to some of the crawly things so a little water and a little time spent save a lot of trouble later. The fact that bugs do not seem to be interested in coffee or diet soda makes me often wonder if they are actually food -- to tell the truth about this. Automatic software processes are like this. To be truly lazy would have been to have written the script to not suggest categories marked with __HIDDENCAT__. -- carol (talk) 21:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

species template[edit]

I am feeling kind of badly about steering you away from species stuff -- what the template does was really beautiful. It really starts to feel like almost everything can be done soon to make things really have a nice appearance and work well here. It is really nice to see the numbers and the redletter categories in the sandbox :)

I have a few questions about the ease of using the species template, well, one in particular. Did you use software to scoop the list from wikispecies or did it need to be scooped by hand? -- carol (talk) 23:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC) (oops)

Sign that post so I don't have to {{unsigned}} you. I got the list by copy'n'pasting into Notepad++ and ran a couple find/replaces to put it inside the template (which can be made a macro and used every time). Rocket000(talk) 23:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
That is exactly what I did to get the lists of genera and such only with a combination of NEDit and Mousepad due to some weird problems with my old texteditor not sharing the clipboard for the column paste....
Or in summary, I can do that. Or I can do that also. -- carol (talk) 23:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Yep, no magic there. You should try out the replacer function I have in User:Rocket000/monobook.js (somewhere in the middle). Rocket000(talk) 23:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
The template -- it would have been a long while from now before I made that. When I was "teaching astronomy" I used to claim (and often it was the truth) that I was about 3 minutes ahead of my students. I really had to review the content before the session. This situation seems much closer to that and I know how good the teaching was due to the fact that I was still enthusiastic and stuff. -- carol (talk) 02:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
That seems about right. ;) If I wasn't learning myself I would be bored and probably not help much. Rocket000(talk) 17:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

"indexed" categories[edit]

I was just looking at one of those and all of the image pages I looked at had the species category on them already. That made me think that if they could just be removed from those "indexed" categories and a follow up on the same image list by the bot, all should go relatively well without visually checking the several hundred to perhaps one thousand image which are in those categories and in "cat indexed" categories which I have yet to "sample".

Kind of cool to see Siebot working as I add to the list!! Is that being accomplished by Siebrand, do you know? -- carol (talk) 01:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I just looked at several of the "cat indexed" categories and they are all galleries!! yay! Your list will be well managed soon, it seems! -- carol (talk) 01:19, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
It runs automatically, but yeah, he created it. I'll have a look at the indexed cats. Rocket000(talk) 01:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I just found one where both the images I looked at were not with a species category. I have no problem doing the grunt work for those to just disassemble them. I understand that the uncat bot runs automatically, but I kind of thought it was running automatically on the recent uploads. With all of the images here "hash marked" though, I guess I can "rethink" things.... -- carol (talk) 01:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
No, I was telling him what to do with {{move cat}}, heh. Rocket000(talk) 01:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
It was really cool to see happening as I edited the list which leads me to my next request. Can I have that page when it is completed? I was thinking about a screengrab but the list is too long. Having the page and the history and saving it with a link that says no coincidence is really what I want instead of the grab-- carol (talk) 02:04, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I jumped to a conclusion that you don't have column paste in your text editor, so I made the move cat list for you. It would not have been easy for me to make without the first list of the categories with that heading, so fair enough! I would really like to see those gone. -- carol (talk) 07:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, had to sleep and stuff. I'm back. Looks like Siebrand already did it anyway. You want my sandbox? lol. I can move it (and delete all the irrelevant tests in the past you probably don't want) but what's wrong with copy'n'paste? I should have made it on a new page but I didn't think we would use it for long. I jumped to a conclusion that you don't have column paste in your text editor I have practically every tool there is for making lists. :) I would have simply done that inside my edit window with my regex replacer function I told you to check out. On that note, if you have any other ideas for lists I can make to work on, let me know. I have a thing for lists. Rocket000(talk) 17:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Sleep and real life is good! My ideas about what has or is happening are somewhat legislated by Einstein in that I only know of things I have done or things that I have seen done. I have been using my text editor for 10 years now and it was old when I got it (When I first started using computers again (1986 then jump to 1997) and going back to college, I had to turn in papers that technology had upgraded from needing to be legibly hand-written to computer-style typeset. The linux options for a text editor were vi, emacs and this gui app called NEdit. I needed to learn the typeset layout and did not want to learn how to key the commands for vi or emacs at the same time so the gui text editor was really good for producing the LaTeX papers on time.) I discovered the column paste several years later (like 2006) and it was awesome. I mentioned it on #gtk+ and vi got the ability shortly after. So, in my mind, it is a treasure which many do not have. My brain and understanding of everything is (as dictated by physical realities) at the center of my universe and trying to guess what is going on in the center of other universes! If you know of a better way to consider things, let me know!
I will try those tools, I promise. Getting this list dealt with as quickly as it is going is kind of cool, eh? It is to me. Especially when I look at a category like Category:Plantae by familia (Indexed) and see that they made it through A and into B and C (I blame the U on the banksia people). There are so many lists that occur in peoples personal namespace here and especially on English wikipedia but very few of them seem to have been managed after generating. I like the exception that is being made of this one that way.
And damn, I wanted the recent history of your sandbox also. A quote from one of my favorite songs "Just a silly souvenir from a terrible year". I had no intention of having so many terrible years when I started to love that song though. -- carol (talk) 20:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

the rest of the list[edit]

The "Indexed" part. The bot that can add the gallery name as a category to an image page. Are you able to generate lists of galleries which are in specific categories and its subcategories?

This would be ideal:

  1. Put the gallery name on all gallery images within an (Indexed) category and remove the (Indexed) category at the same time. And when done with the image list in from the gallery page, remove it from the (Indexed) category and put it into the regular category.
  2. I would like to see the image and page count of these categories after that. Not necessary though.
    • There might still be images left in them as galleries get edited
    • Perhaps they will be emptied by simply removing the galleried images from them
  3. Software that looks at the images that remain in the categories and removes the "(Indexed)" string from it.
  4. Delete these categories.
  5. Spend some moments adoring the mostly redlinked list and see a movie or two or something like that....

-- carol (talk) 20:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it look like Multichill's bot has started adding images to categories that share a name with the galleries they are in. I'm not quite sure how to do that myself. Making lists for it I may able to do. Put the gallery name on all gallery images? Do you mean add [[Category:<gallery name it's in>]]? Rocket000(talk) 21:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, and sorry about categorizing you! Perhaps Multichill would be inspired if presented with a list of galleries or since the bot seems to crawl categories, perhaps it can also crawl subcategories or could easily be shown how to. Finding the "[[Category:" and managing the information after it is the task for that. NewCat == {{PAGENAME}} and AddCat == "[[Category:" + NewCat + "]]" is nothing to write home about having authored....
It is weird how the maturity of the bot owners seems to match the maturity of the bots themselves. My little brother, a long long time ago, when he first started to form sentences and express thoughts said this: "If you do, you do; if you don't, you don't." Recently, my own passive aggressive situations tend to involve a person who seems to need "fear" as opposed to "respect" and the task being "the right thing to do" or "the most efficient way to accomplish something that has to be done" as a motivator. Unfortunately, I am not the person who is feared; it is more of a sad look at a different kind of personality for me while I am stuck in the situation.
Then, well, your call on this. How much did my personality take a dive when I dared suggest Roche.svg? In the non-literal world, there have been so many stones thrown into my "glass house" that I should soon have enough to build a cobblestone house with!!! -- carol (talk) 21:37, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Fear would be the opiate of the people if they weren't so afraid of drugs. "How much did my personality take a dive when I dared suggest Roche.svg?" I think higher of you. NewCat == {{PAGENAME}} is good for galleries but doesn't work for images. I have no problem with doing the galleries. It's pulling the name of gallery a certain image is in that I have trouble with. Rocket000(talk) 21:53, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
My favorite FPC! Templates and javascript only work with the url (or uri if you have or need to use that) python, perl, php others like that do not have that limitation. That was a good review for me, btw. I just spent the last few hours wishing that my brain could sort through its stuff as quickly as matching images are found here lately. heh. That was a very nice updating of the old communist/socialist quote, btw. A few days after my favorite FPC showed up there, all I could think was that it was a different view of this.
I can honestly say that I have no idea what I am going to be afraid of until I am right there, in the experience and afraid. Too much misinformation should unwire or defuse the fear generators(?) -- carol (talk) 00:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Not a barnstar....
Does RocketBot tie up your browser? I have only recently seen discussion of the limitations on bot modifications and that is about flooding recent changes. When I have scripted for GIMP, that software has improved since I started and stopped putting progress dialogs in the way -- but on linux, they have had to name and give responsibility for the desktop at many different levels due to problems like that. When I started, the message box would show up no matter which of the virtual desktops I was working on and steal the focus (I have had friends like that, actually, and probably have been a friend like that too). Sorry about the questions, I still have a difficult time imagining scripting on windows. -- carol (talk) 04:31, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
No, but if I make too many requests/sec I get disconnected. When I use python scripts there's no browser involved, and when I use AWB, it uses IE, which I never use. My bot's contribs don't show up in the recent changes by default so no problems with that. Rocket000(talk) 04:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Why thank you for the... rocket engine. :) Rocket000(talk) 06:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Not all glass is transparent[edit]

Re: cat changes [1] and [2]: please see my comments at Commons:Village pump#Another Cat question. Yes, this roof is glass, but it's not transparent, it's translucent. - Jmabel ! talk 06:37, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

May I suggest Roche.svg to assist with the transparency issues? -- carol (talk) 07:37, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Responded on the pump. Rocket000(talk) 17:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: why the redirect??[edit]

[3] – Well, this was the original file name of Image:Missing flag.png (or the newer Image:Flag of None.svg), and the old "joker" name is still linked from dozens of external places (re-users of Wikipedia content mainly). Please could you reconsider your deletion of the redirect therefore (it doesn't harm anyone) :-) --:bdk: 05:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, unused (by Wikimedia projects, at least) image redirects do take up valid names and make maintenance a little harder. They also cause problems for bots like CommonsDelinker (can he fix double image redirects across all projects?, for example). But yeah, I'll restore it, you didn't have to ask me. :-) Rocket000(talk) 05:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, thanks :-) Cases like this (heavily used placeholder images with a longer history on several wikis) are a bit special. I don't stick up for every little redirect *g* --:bdk: 22:17, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Thank you[edit]

Hey, no prob, thanks for noticing! :) Cheers, Cirt (talk) 11:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Categories in template[edit]

Hi, you're right ([4]). When I started uploading files, I used the template so that the gallery script put the other categories (license, self) at the end, but now that doesn't work anymore, and now I know it's better to place them “outside”. So as you may see in my last contrbutions, I'm taking the categories out of the template. But I'm not as fast as a bot :) Regards, --MdE Post/talk [de] [com] 11:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm glad you understand. I kept wondering what my bot was getting stuck on. ;) Rocket000(talk) 11:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Multichill has a bot that can change the text within a template. -- carol (talk) 23:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Empty categories of railway lines[edit]

Please don't remove empty categories of czech railway lines as you did in the case of Category:Railway line Žatec - Březno u Chomutova. These categories form an integrated system (and they are categorized by type of line). Thank You. --ŠJů (talk) 16:17, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Should there be a template that explains empty categories to both humans and bots who are wondering about the reason that an empty category exists here? The empty railway lines should be somewhere that photographers can see that images are needed of this. At least in my opinion and my cameras opinion also.
Also, if I may commend whoever it was who decided how to split the name of Czechoslovakia! The people of Yugoslavia should consider putting their country back together again so it can be divided in a similar way that the Czechs did.... -- carol (talk) 23:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Categories are to categorize media. If there's no media, there's no point in having a category. Rocket000(talk) 02:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Did you have a brain wipe? Answer me this, how is hotcat.js supposed to know where to put an image of this railway when one is uploaded? -- carol (talk) 02:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
You can add non-existent categories through hotcat.js. I do it all the time, then click on them and create them. That's how categories are created. Rocket000(talk) 02:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
What about the possibility of categories like this so that people can know that images are needed (I think that you are also demanding a greater knowledge of the category system from uploaders, also) like this one: Category:Species needing images. Click thru but only save if you can figure out where to put it (I was told that up "my ass" was not a good place, btw).
Also, do you know the reason that javascript for monobook.js does not work on standard.js?-- carol (talk) 02:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm not saying that all empty categories serve no purpose. Category:Species needing images is an example. I'll find somewhere to put it. And no, I don't know about the javascript. Is it something in MediaWiki:Monobook.js? Some of those things should be moved to MediaWiki:Common.js Rocket000(talk) 03:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I tried to put your recommendations into my standard.js and it hasn't shown up yet. I have yet to restart the browser though and don't know about cache problems. The button that pastes the flickr passed stuff didn't show up either and both were written for monobook. Commons.js is probably a really good idea! -- carol (talk) 03:05, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Common.js, not Commons.js. ;) It's what all the skins share. Have you tried refreshing your browser? I would think it should work on all of them. Rocket000(talk) 03:12, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, several times both with mouse and keys. Is common.js a real thing or a good idea? -- carol (talk) 03:32, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
It's a real thing: MediaWiki:Common.js. It's the site's javascript, but I couldn't add something like this. Rocket000(talk) 03:34, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Heh, the maintainer is watching movies I recommend, one of the contributors helped me to avoid the new upload dialog in the situation where I learned that js seems to work differently on those two and it was another contributor to that who told me that anyone suggesting that my suggestions get shoved up my ass was wrong. Which one to bother about this? -- carol (talk) 03:41, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I would go with the first one.. Rocket000(talk) 03:42, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
It is (I think) because of Dschwen that I more often have javascript disabled than enabled, btw. Winters in the midwest are that evil! I miss them so much. -- carol (talk) 03:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Commons requested photographs is a mess[edit]

THANK YOU for finding a place for that category! -- carol (talk) 04:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Commons Scope - Pdf and Djvu files[edit]

I have added some text dealing with these based on the discussion on the talk page. Users are by no means unanimous about which files should be allowed, and I have tried to follow the majority opinion. Thus, the suggestion is that if a Pdf or Djvu file is educationally useful even to a single other Wiki it should be kept. Would you like to comment before this page goes live? Please do so at the bottom of the talk page. Regards, --MichaelMaggs (talk) 21:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi Rocket. I find your last edit to this template rather ambiguous. I explained why on the talk page. Can you please check whether it's OK with you? If I misunderstood you, don't hesitate to revert me. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 11:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


pingping... hello, how are you? :) --pfctdayelise (说什么?) 16:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi! I'm good, and on my way over there right now. :) Rocket000(talk) 16:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

new websites[edit]

A new taxonomy web site has shown up overnight. Interestingly enough, it has "id" in the name. It is one more little speck onto the pile which is the mountain of reasons I really really dislike California. -- carol (talk) 02:06, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Kind of stupid -- carol (talk) 03:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

How was that stupid? What taxonomy site do you use the most? I can never find the "authority". Rocket000(talk) 22:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC) <-- if this isn't specifically what you were looking for, let me know. There is a reason my brain jumps right to a CT. -- carol (talk) 07:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


Rocket, could you do a Flickr review for me on Image:Fred and Andrew Baron.jpg? Flickrbot malfunctioned and I need a manual review. Kelly (talk) 04:30, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't around, but Giggy got it. Rocket000(talk) 21:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi Rocket,

I see you deleted Image:Klickety_Cuffs.png. I created the image from Image:Crystal Clear app kllckety.png and a modification of Image:Handcuffs01_2003-06-02.jpg, and I was never notified that it was up for deletion. The reason you gave was "Not PD". I'm quite willing to modify the license if necessary; what would the appropriate license be? --Slashme (talk) 06:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

PS: When you respond, can you cc me at en:User_talk:Slashme? Thanks! --Slashme (talk) 06:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
In fact, I am so sure that it's OK, that I'm going to re-upload it. --Slashme (talk) 08:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

That's fine, but it wasn't ok the first time. This is what you had:

|Description = Handcuffs superimposed on office software icon for Wikipedia User OS Windows Duress template
|Source      = Cut and paste from free handcuffs image onto free KDE icon.
|Date        = 2007
|Author      = Slashme on
|Permission  = Public Domain
|other_versions =


You didn't link the sources. You didn't mention the GFDL, LGPL, or CC-BY-SA. You didn't mention any of the authors, which was required by the licenses. You didn't share-alike, which was required by the licenses. Yes, there's a understand between Wikimedia contributers that sometimes these licenses aren't always strictly followed, and that's why I'm not deleting it for having incompatible licenses, but there is a minimum of compliance we expect. If you at least linked to the "free" source images, I could have fix it for you. I recognized the KDE icon but not the handcuffs, so I couldn't do much. Yet I knew the PD claim was wrong. Sorry for the inconvenience; I hope you understand. We normally don't notify users for simple copyvios, but you're right, in this case, I should have came to you first. BTW, you can't do the {{PD-self}} thing, derivatives must be under the same license(s). Rocket000(talk) 21:54, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right: when I first made the image I didn't quite realize that a derivative work from GFDL is necessarily still under GFDL, I thought it was whatever license you wanted. You say "sometimes these licenses aren't always strictly followed, and that's why I'm not deleting it for having incompatible licenses". Are the licenses correct at the moment, or is there still an incompatibility?
BTW, thanks for the ping on my user talk page; please ping me again when you reply. --Slashme (talk) 05:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Technically, no. The whole point of licenses like the GFDL and CC-BY-SA is to ensure that future creations will always remain free. They do this by requiring derivatives to be licensed the same way. That's why it's called "share-alike", they must be shared alike. In other words, if you use a GFDL image to make another, your image must be GFDL. It works the same way for CC-BY-SA. Now obviously it's impossible to license it under both since both require you to license it exactly the same way. If your image is GFDL+CC-BY-SA it's not neither GFDL nor CC-BY-SA. See w:License compatibility. I wouldn't worry about it though. When you get this technical about the compatibility of free licenses, most people look the other way. As long as credit the authors and mention the licenses involved, you should be fine. Rocket000(talk) 07:30, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh, OK, thanks! --Slashme (talk) 09:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Cleaning up categories[edit]


Hi Rocket000, i wrote a new toy to clean up categories. See User:Multichill/Sort_categories. Edits will look like this. Please add categories :-), Multichill (talk) 09:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Soory to butt in, but I could not help noticing that with the edit shown in the example the image page is now doubly categorized to Category:Solanum nigrum as it was already in the species category (and the Genus category). Is that intended behavior? -- Slaunger (talk) 09:59, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that too yes. Apparently the image was overcategorized. Dont think this is a big problem because the category will only show up once, but i might add a replace in the future to filter out the duplicate line. Multichill (talk) 10:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
When I have seen this and/or done this, the category only shows up once. It looks better to not have it listed twice, I don't know if it is such a software drag or anything like that though. -- carol (talk) 10:18, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, duplicate categories don't affect how it's categorize, but it is a bit messy and unnecessary. Whenever I run AWB, I always have a nice little regex to fix these things (\[\[Category:)([^\]]+\]\])(.*?)\1\2$1$2$3. Upload bots seem to double categorize sometimes too. I can run through the same lists afterwards, but it would be nice if it was built in. Anyway, it looks like a great new toy. Thanks, Multichill. Rocket000(talk) 21:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
It is such a little mess compared to the really large couple of messes that were greatly reduced a few days ago -- this is my main problem with the "problem". And yeah, if this is going to be a problem here, then many of the upload bots must be stopped for accomplishing much much messier messes. -- carol (talk) 21:43, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Just dropping in with a little timestamp for task not completed yet. -- carol (talk) 08:14, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
It's not a problem. Categorizing in both a category and it's parent category is the problem. Rocket000(talk) 22:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Ahm, my intention was not to pinpoint this as a massive problem. I just noticed it and figured it would be very easy to check for when doing the edits, as it looks strange when editing the page, in case the tool implementer had not noticed it. -- Slaunger (talk) 22:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I would have too. That's not a problem either. ;) Rocket000(talk) 22:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Should be easy to determine how much of a problem it was, the time the "problem" was pointed out compared to whatever day the list gets managed. -- carol (talk) 05:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Darnit, I was looking for a {{MEDIAINCATEGORY}} that could have been here meta:Help:Variable#Other to make it easier to watch User:CarolSpears/SortTask. -- carol (talk) 06:03, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I know, I want that too. Rocket000(talk) 07:37, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Categorie Academie Julian[edit]

I do not know why "Académie Julian" went into "Hidden categories". I thought it was some automatic thing done on this site by the "Wikimedia Commons" robots! --Duvillage (talk) 22:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Copyright Banner[edit]

As for the copyright banner on my own discussion page, this is only a personal reminder for myself. I was looking for an identity photographs to illustrate articles, since they fall outside the scope of what is covered by the laws in France, and when I would have found them, I would have the banner ready to put with the photographs. A lot of background research went into finding the information in the French legal documents, about the exceptions applying to identity photographs, so I did not want it to get removed. --Duvillage (talk) 22:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

In your copious spare time[edit]

Been away... easing back into wikiflow tasking...

I think you ought to reformat and tighten up Template:BadJPEG. Just making it 100% width should drop the height, and I'd guess the message could be truncated to: DO this as a SVG cause we're REALLY REALLY committed to them... (or something a bit less confrontational) <g>. Putting most of the messaage on the autocategory would work too--some is already duplicated there. (Do you have the same impression as me... that if the advocates of vector graphics had been sorting images instead of tagging them uselessly "to be replaced by superior tech", that we'd have negative numbers to sort out? <g> It's a thought... maybe even near possible... well, save for the negative counts. // FrankB 00:45, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Missed this?[edit]

On the geotemplates... errr, project... are there any in particular more used than others you suggest I start with, and what are you holding out as an "ideal kind of usage" for a template? I expect I can make some progress that direction by this weekend. Right now, I'm cooking up a batch of loose ends. // FrankB 00:45, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Well you've been busy below, did you miss this one? No pings, or alerts either! // FrankB 06:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Scrunching this?[edit]

re: Template:Template category (edit talk links history) and Lack of fit... Category:Typing-aid_templates and elsewhere with {{interwikicat-grp}}
I've just about got the last bugs stomped out in the linking template, and your changes to the template are ahem... counterproductive. Even wikipedia's will scrunch over for right floated elements, so can you take a look and see if any fix occurs to you. There are at least five or six categories where name schema's are shared, so would be nice. Note I reintroduced description... Chou (or is that chow?? Oh, you're right, I need to grab some belated din-din!) // FrankB 06:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
When you cram a bunch of text in the header, it looks bad. Descriptions should go outside the box. Imagine what it will look like once we start getting translations! There's no reason to put everything inside a box. And don't use {{interwikicat-grp}}, use interwiki links. Look at Category:Miscellaneous templates! It's in the middle of the subcategory listing! I didn't even think that was possible. Rocket000(talk) 07:05, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Now compare that with Category:Typing-aid templates doesn't that look better? All the links are where they belong, in the sidebar. Rocket000(talk) 07:16, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Category:Typing-aid templates (edit talk links history)
Template:InterProject/all (edit talk links history)... doesn't cut it... it's very inaccurate see: for example
  1. I'll give you typing-aid templates looks neater now... it also looks linkless and there is no Whatlinkshere to see and evaluate intersister category name (or at least, "function") sharing.
    1. Who the hell looks at the sidebar? (Among English speakers, that is.)
    2. I can likely adapt interwikicat-grp's logic to {{InterProject/all}} output, but for the moment would rather stay focused on both documenting the sisterprojects categories and evaluating what categorizations are most sensible... the overhaul of wikipedia's template categorizations during the spring of 2007, has created a fair bit of conflicting category inclusions... which are reconcilable... if navigating to similar categories is eased. (I've only so many hours to donate after all!)
  2. Otherwise, the technique requires coding on each page... or multiple interproject templates used from what I can see (Their documentation sucks... I was wondering on what those did earlier today) and possibly pipetricking, etc. The very things the interwikicat-grp template is designed to minimize.
On Template:Template category (edit talk links history)
  1. Why would you ever try to put translations into such a template? Generally, we're talking about a few phrases, or a sentence, forsooth! Link to a {{Template:category-trans category name}} "subpage" if needed for multiple languages. Template namespace is way under utilized, and can do the show/hide trick if you wanted. Me, I'd do a link iff translation were needed, which seems unlikely.
  2. Putting the bit of description within, means the whole working gaggle of the several upper templates can be cut and pasted all at once. At the moment, not having "Small" capability as I'd originally had everywhere is making the page tops messy HERE, that was the point of my request ca 3:00am this morning. // FrankB 17:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, good news. I finally got around to installing collapsible boxes here (before we only had the inferior collapsible divs). So now you can really do show/hide magic. What sucks about InterProject template's documentation? It looks pretty clear to me. If you can't understand it, look at the source! {{InterProject/all}} was just a simple demonstration template. It can only link to one language per project, and there's no way to remove any. It's just a lazy way to show how it works; not really how it should be used. Remember, the best kind of documentation is the kind with the least amount of words. Show people how it's done. No translation is needed then.

Whatlinkshere is in the side bar. Interwiki links are always in the sidebar. People should know to look for them there. several upper templates can be cut and pasted all at once Why would you put the same thing on different categories? Every template category already has {{template category}}. Anyway, you can copy and paste text outside the box as well. Rocket000(talk) 17:59, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Does sound like good news... you should be aware when it comes down to scripts and java and common.css, I'm fairly blind and unlettered. I have no idea of how that show/hide works, save it can be controlled in some templates and have "programmed" such parameters at need here and there.
Heh' ... how do you think {{Template category}} got here??? :)
ON sucks... I just popped into a couple of pages, but there is no PURPOSE statement... Why something exists is even more important than "how-to" employ it. One can figure that out later... knowing a tool exists is the first step! See for example: Template:Silent (Just completed) "Showing works... requires first establishing a common context and that they have time to try to follow along. A 'This exists to do such and such' purpose statement gives that context and common viewpoint. (Even if your English is poor to missing... some clue is better than NONE!)
Besides... I was mid-batch-editing, and didn't have time to peek under the hood with a full buffer, and a need to remember where I'd been and had to go. Just saw the category as a subcat so popped in for a moment.
Empowering people to easily transit from one project to another and find things was and is the whole concept behind all the interwiki work I've done. Differing category structures for basic tools is counterproductive, and linking between sisters is the best way to save people volunteers their time! [I also think would tend to attract talent to make a contribution if the environments were more synchronized and similar. A Good Thing too. Note that adapting that to another language is also possible. (I've toyed with the idea of writing a user friendly version of Sisterlinks for a long while now! I just dropped most template work (excepting one group of article's needs) entirely for a long time to keep my blood pressure down! <g>)
The more the same things are, the more stable and less need of change there is as well. Another good thing. (Also one reason I championed my beloved and much missed {{Common cats}} here... it follows and is consistent with practices across the whole slew of interlingual wikis of all kinds... only the commons is resisting that (I infer), save for the kludge of {{Sisterlinks}} templates. [Another good case for a /doc sort of template page solution with a backedit link, I think. Editing around that sucker is a pain!]
FYI... I just landed the debugged version of {{interwikicat-grp}} here (there may temporarily be a subtemplate or two needing tweaks... I was testing from wikiversity... if ALL={{PAGENAME&#125:} testing invoked... those will show. Later I'll check that possible issue out while probing cat names from here. (Going sister to sister... I sometimes feel like seven different people! <g>) Need to finish a few things in the que first.)
For now, how about you tolerate interwikicat-grp (IWCG) for a while, and in return, I'll help you get a good picture of the template category tree here and compare that to elsewhere. We can use that to convert to a sidebar version here or adapt with those others if that seems sensible. (Drat! Need that link you gave one day to your "template category scheme"... can you drop that again on my talk next time you ping?)
On the Whatlinkshere vs. sidebar, you missed the point... the links of the template can be used to see what common sister categories are on each sister... if we use the others, I'd have to export those to five other sisters at least. (Meta and Simple en.wp and Wikisource and Wikiquote all have sporadic Matching categories too, and I've got a new version of interwiktmp-grp (IWTG) coming along (soon -- maybe even next, once I get a better handle on intersister categories) with edit/history/links capability.) [Do you even have one of those "InterProject templates" for Wikijunior and simple??? I just stubbed in the later into the latest version of IWCG last night... still needs a corrected logo!]
You still need to give me some guidance on those geocode templates (first section above!) // FrankB 19:17, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
I would really like if you did some work with InterProject templates. Most of them are just piped link templates. Nothing fancy at all, so any project (even external links) can be added. The good thing is you can add anything you want. If you want 5 links to Meta, 2 to Commons itself, and 1 to Bugzilla, you can do that. You can even reformat them. (Making them a different color might get people's attention.)
Ok, for the geocoding templates, all I would like for now is the syntax (how to use it), an example, notes on any other important features, and a see also section (which hopefully can clear up the confusion over what template to use). See Commons:Geocoding#Adding_a_location_template for example. We only got 19 in Category:Geocoding templates, but there's a lot to them. Or even if you just make a page like you did with the SVG marker templates, that would be great. Rocket000(talk) 20:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
'OKay I was just driving by on my way into Interproject templates, as it happens! :) //FrankB 07:01, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

New (category redirect) biz[edit]

You got any wisdom to shed on this NEED... some busybodies are giving me grief for a hard redirect from a "common name of a template category" to a "Wikipedia template category" (On a site which has enshrined avoiding self-references yet!) [The restless native's longheld superstitions need a little informed factual updating.]

FYI, sometime this week, I'm going to set up a Rocket000 archive... Me and Conrad Dunkerson did that for our back and forths, and such allows one to clear finished sections in a running cleanup as the page fills up. You might consider one for me (Frank or FrankB) [and Carol, from the looks of things]. The linear sectionalized organization of such a page has several bennies for checking back on things... // FrankB 17:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... not sure what would be best for en.wp (different projects, different needs), but according to en:Wikipedia:Redirect#Category_redirects, it seems they have a similar system already.
Good idea about the archiving. I might just do that. Rocket000(talk) 18:06, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
  1. Thanks for the link (again)... I'm into it now... Didn't know about namespace Info: That has possibilities! What's the general namespace guide help page here?
  2. On the category redirects... No, no, no! You misunderstand something... at least I 'think'. :)
       (If I were sure, wouldn't be yelling for 'help', now would I!??)

    Of course en.wp has a category redirect... also had a category redirect2 and 3 (stable pages, needing less Bot patrolling, and so forth)
        See my talk there for "issue background", but the point is there is still a myth (or I believe it so) there that hard category redirects are to be avoided or the boogie man will get ya!

     • If you're telling me that bug is still a problem, and pages don't carry to the renamed category (per the FAQ note, I think I've seen otherwise, and...), then I'm amazed...

    as there was a reported "fix" in the works being evaluated in testing way back in Feb-March 2007, when both user:Pfctdayelise and I were both urging them (On Bugzilla whatever#) to expedite things... that was sometime in the three-five day discussions (towards the end, I think) RobertG, David Kernow, me and few others worked out the combined Hard/Soft redirect strategy as being a way around the problem back then. (The bot fixed the "Bad Names" in article space so they didn't pile up and propagate, and the hard redirect kept things connected for people to navigate. The short time then between the time the "mistaken edit" was made, and when the periodic running of the Bot cleaned things up, was acceptable. RobertG was running the only Bot there processing category redirects back then.)

Sigh! If the category pages still don't carry through, then I've made an assumptive error since the bug fix being tested should have made it out by now!

Now where was I? <g> Oh, yeah... your category scheme notes! TTFN! // FrankB 22:18, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Right now, making a hard category redirect on Commons means that whatever goes in there stays in there (unless a human manually recategorizes it). I thought the hard/soft combo would be great, but we have no bots that work with those and no bot runners interested. So yes, hard redirects are bad. Soft redirects are almost as bad. Just don't use redirect categories unless you absolutely have to.
What's the general namespace guide help page here? Help:Namespaces? For most help pages we just redirect to Meta. Rocket000(talk) 22:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Duh-OH! Thanks... and drat! ...Hmmm, so what's with your occasional musings about misspellings or whatnot and related discussions of "that might be a good place for a Hard Redirect", and so forth?
What no Bots that take a list and check patrolling! I'll see if RobertG ever recovered RobotG (He'd somehow lost it or something, while me a link to it at one time... went away then months later came back to en.wp... I think he's still about.) In fact, I believe he occasionally operated it here. // FrankB 23:11, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Lost a beautiful series of fixes in InterProject templates... they rolled off the end of my edit buffer before I got back to save them! Drat firefox's short ques! I ended up going too far afield trying to figure out the various syntaxes for interprojects... ended up in simple.wp half the day. (simple.XXXXXX projects add a whole 'nother degree of difficulty to link construction, if a simple and non-simple both exist! ... see these posts) but now I'm exhausted. At least I did the testing and had usage written once. Reconstructing it again should go quick now that it was all but done once. May reconstruct now... but just may catch some Zzzzzz's too. Just figured I'd let you how I got lost... figure you'd figure I had! <g> G'night... I'll knock that off in the morning then move onto the geotemplates... I'm trying to maintain momentum in other directions too. Cheers! // FrankB 04:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Bot work 08-16[edit]

  • Should we Kill this redirect from a moved name?
  • To go with running your Bot to recat contents of Map templates into Blank maps (I already dealt with the loop and recatted the latter. The category name is just too confusing to keep except as a {{Template category}} (Funny how things come full circles! <g>). Don't delete though... ping me and I'll move various maps templates into it when emptied. Some are hanging out there with a redlinked name just waiting for a suitable home, as I think we touched on last weekend. This looks to be it.
    • If you have time to be more refined, looks like about half the image contents should be instead recatted in Blank maps of the world, and the others into blank maps by region/continent as should be mostly obvious and intuitive. If the area shown fits a continent, just do those... no reason to slow yourself down on Blank maps by country subcats if it'll save your time. (some may not exist at all) Thanks! // FrankB 23:11, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Interstate 635 (Texas).svg[edit]

Since now we have Image:I-635 (Texas).svg we can delete the file, I ran through Check-usage and clear everything out.--Freewayguy Ask? +000s 05:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried using the {{duplicate}} template? -- carol (talk) 06:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
I see you have used that. There are enough active admin that the deletions like that should happen relatively soon. -- carol (talk) 06:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Still in use. Rocket000(talk) 08:22, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind, it's not. But what about Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Interstate 635 (Texas).svg? Rocket000(talk) 08:28, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
But now we have Image:I-635 (Texas).svg, so we no longer need Image:Interstate 635 (Texas).svg.--Freewayguy Ask? +000s 17:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
So Carol, you said soon.--Freewayguy Ask? +000s 19:51, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
She said "relatively soon" which, as you know, isn't that soon. :) Anyway, it's gone. Rocket000(talk) 21:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


{{move cat|Lithospermum purpurocaeruleum|Buglossoides purpurocaeruleum}} -- carol (talk) 06:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

{{move cat|Lithospermum arvense|Buglossoides arvense}} -- carol (talk) 07:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

✓  Done Rocket000(talk) 08:23, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! I think that COMBotBot needs to have a rewrite. -- carol (talk) 09:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


Hello, why you deleted Category:Plesná? --Ragimiri (talk) 15:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Oops, I just saw that it was empty, I didn't mean to delete a dismbig category. Thanks for pointing that out. Rocket000(talk) 22:01, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Your note[edit]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit of a beginner at commons, and I don't understand what your note means. Did I use the wrong deletion request template? TimVickers (talk) 02:19, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Did you mean I should have said "empty gallery" rather than "empty category"? TimVickers (talk) 02:21, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
OK, thank you for the correction. TimVickers (talk) 02:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh, right. Now I see. Sorry! :) TimVickers (talk) 02:28, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

template pasting failure[edit]

Template:Tribe for additional information:

#@#$#@%@#$#@&*&%&#$%@$!!!!!! !!! -- carol (talk) 03:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC) !!!
Hehe.. That's why I didn't make one template for all of them. Rocket000(talk) 03:25, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Huh? I am very grateful it works now -- I have no idea the reason your changes made it work. When things settle down, {{awesome}} possibly will apply :) -- carol (talk) 03:31, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
It was calling templates that didn't exist yet. What you see on {{tribe}} is only half of it. Rocket000(talk) 03:36, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
I am still a template beginner. That is fine by me. :) -- carol (talk) 04:46, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi! Please, can you delete all these pictures? Thanks. --Nyo (talk) 08:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, they're currently going through a deletion request. It wouldn't be right if I just deleted them. There were some that I was able to because they were missing license/source information, but the rest can't be speedy-deleted (I'll take another look, though) Rocket000(talk) 08:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of speedy copyvios...[edit]

How about this? I know the Flickr license is "good" but if it were in the speedy cat I would probably delete without hesitation. I spotted it shortly after it was uploaded but forgot to get back to it. Cheers --Herby talk thyme 09:27, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Nuke it. Rocket000(talk) 09:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
I bow to your knowledge :)
However before doing so I poked about a bit - why does one thing always lead to another!
So - images by the same user such as this would have me wondering despite the license I guess but - to me - even odder is the fact that these recent ones are not in the user log. That is 'cos they are Flickr upload bot ones? If so I had not realised that (still amazes me how much I have to learn!). Sorry to bug you - cheers --Herby talk thyme 09:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
You're not bugging me. Yeah, anything done through the upload bot is on it's log, not theirs. However, if you look at the contribs, you'll see "Preparing upload using Flickr upload bot". They have to make the image page themselves. Rocket000(talk) 09:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


If "your listmaker" is me adding things to a list for a bot to take over from, if you really want to take responsibility for separating me from my things (books, tools, toys, sewing machine, raw materials for things listed previously), it would also be nice if you could take responsibility for putting me back with my stuff :)

Seriously, once I was visiting my mom and she was sitting there mindlessly doing crossword puzzles. I feel this way a little about what I am doing here, but her sewing machine was there and all her stuff and her mom was gone (giving her the house with all of her stuff and additional stuff in it) so, it is easy for me to disregard this comparison.

I kind of see what you are trying to do with the lily order but I still like to be able to edit all of the categorizations at one time.

I will really enjoy going to where I lived for so long and consider to be where I should be and to spend the few minutes counting how many of the certified teaching staff was able to manage 20 to 30 high schoolers who had just consumed "e". That should be a short in time task and restoring reality as a reason to hire and fire will be really good for my particular part of the universe.

If there is no one else who is involved with the plants here who is of average intelligence enough to figure out what I was doing.... -- carol (talk) 01:15, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Heh, I am a little wary of "AWB" -- and making a different list. I really do not like California. I enjoyed crossword puzzles for a while, at the University with other people. So much waking up in a world that made sense, these last 6 years of a world that one single day (almost) did not make sense. -- carol (talk) 01:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

RfA thanks[edit]

Bot problem[edit]

Hi Rocket, I don't know if anyone pointed this to you already, but your bot did a mistake here, removing a noinclude tag that should have remained so that the explanation text below the template doesn't show up on image descriptions. You should probably see if this happened in other instances, I haven't verified. Cheers! Patrícia msg 12:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Something else, the stuff between the includeonly tags disappeared completely, which makes images not being categorized in the Unknown categories for later deletion... sorry, I'm reverting the edit altogether, I'm not sure what you were doing with the bot there... Patrícia msg 12:48, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
Nope, that's what it should have been doing. Translations shouldn't be transcluded so there's no need for includeonly categories or noinclude documentation. They don't hurt anything but I purposely remove them in case people do use the templates directly. The pages end up in Category:Images using translated tags where I can fix them. BTW, any time I edit templates like that with so many changes, I'm usually running AWB manually. Sorry for the confusion. Rocket000(talk) 00:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm confused. Why aren't translated templates to be transcluded? That is true for licences, but warning templates can (may I say should) be used with the uploader language. It's easier for them. When I tag an image coming from a pt user, I click on that little "lang?" link, write "pt" and that will give a pt template on the image and a pt warning on the user page. Am I the only person doing this? Patrícia msg 10:31, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
It's too hard to track them. That's why we do it with license tags (and every other image template). The reason those three (nsd, nld, npd) have a "lang?" link is so that the message that goes on the user's page is in whatever language you choose. You'll notice only those three send a message to the user so they're the only ones with that link. I'm not sure why it's doing it for the image tag too. A problem with the script no one wants fix, I guess. Rocket000(talk) 10:37, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, that's the thing, I don't think that is a problem. There is no need to track images labelled with non-English templates if the templates are well formatted, i.e., they will add the correct "Unknown" category, and images will end up in the same categories regardless of which language they use. IMHO, license tags are different because they have legal implications, and a translation of a licence tag is not very "official" - main modifications to template wordiness and context should be done on the English ones, and those should be used. Outside of this, we should strive to keep Commons as multilingual as possible, and having tagging/warning templates directly where users can read them improves this. One of the main complains I read about Commons on pt speaking communities is how everything here is in English - this is a concern.
However, if this is not a general opinion (I don't know if the matter has been discussed anywhere, I'm afraid I've had too little time in my hands to follow discussions here lately), I won't bother you again with this, even if I won't be happy with the outcome. Frankly, more than unhappy, I'd be disappointed, but that's my problem, I guess. In this case, the script should be corrected; I'd do it myself but I don't know how, can you halp me with that? Thanks, Patrícia msg 12:10, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
I would like that too, but I understand why things are the way they are. There's tons of languages out there (about 100 are currently used on Commons). New translations pop up all the time. It would be quite the challenge to update all the templates every time a edit is made like changing the category name. This would be a lot of work and, well... no one really keeps up with our template maintenance as it is. Protection is another issue (now that so many templates are fully protected). {{editprotected}} requests already sit around for days. English is used because it is understood by the most readers/editors here. We save the majority from having to click on a link to read the template vs a minority. It makes sense. I would halp you with script if I knew how. :( Rocket000(talk) 12:31, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
P.S. I had an idea that I've been thinking about doing lately. Creating a type of meta template for each template, where the only thing that changes for translations is the text. That way, no matter what translation is used, it will work the same way. It also makes it easier to translate without all that code. But I have too many projects going on right now to do it by myself. Rocket000(talk) 12:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
You mean that kind of template that is used everywhere on Meta, that "guesses" which language is used in your preferences and displays the appropriate one, reverting to English when there's no text in the chosen language? I always wondered why we didn't use them on Commons... do you know if there's any particular problem using those? I believe that would be the best solution, we'd decrease the amount of templates. I'm not a template expert, but I can do some testing. Patrícia msg 09:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
No, sorry, that wasn't clear. I meant meta, not Meta. :) A type of template that includes everything except the text. Doing it like Meta does would be nice too but I think we need some kind of MediaWiki extension for that. Rocket000(talk) 22:01, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
If you think Brion is not going to kill server kitties...
Sorry, I'm at a loss with complicated templates. Here, have a lolcat. Sorry if I sounded very harsh or bitter, I just really think we're taking a step in the wrong direction, even if the intention is good. :( Patrícia msg 22:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
We're not really taking a step in any direction. This is how it's always been. Rocket000(talk) 22:44, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Another image one![edit]

Is this derivative? I've already asked that the "copyright" statement is removed and then realised it may be derivative. Cheers --Herby talk thyme 16:10, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm.. tough one. This is one area I'm never quite sure. Technically, yes, it is a derivative, but is it a derivative of something that is copyrighted? I don't know. I don't normally think of toys/replicas as attracting copyright unless they are of things already copyrighted (e.g. stuffed cartoon characters) or if they would be considered art. This doesn't seem to be either so I would say it's fine. Oh, and copyright notices like that are fine too. Actually, they are required by the GFDL.[5] Just like how Wikimedia has corrupted the term "fair use" I think we're also starting to give the impression freely licensed works are not copyrighted or not copyrighted in the same way. Rocket000(talk) 23:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Category Chihuahua(state)[edit]

Thanks for the lesson-I'm still in the process of getting my feet on the ground in Commons.--Lyricmac (talk) 16:15, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Category talk:Diagrams[edit]

Sorry, I got lost in the discussion on the Category talk:Diagrams page today, and didn't respond to your last remark yesterday, were I stated:

But there is more.
  • The "Commons:Babel table/template headed has more or less become a standard for translation. The layout is in every welcome message for example. This standard lay out is used.
  • But here we have a new application to make a link between category and the articles in Wikipedia projects
  • Because of this new use, I used a different kind of code. Not just English, but en:Diagram.
I propose we just start using this header again. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 00:13, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

A you responded:

Edit-conflict. Just what I was talking about. Rocket000(talk) 00:16, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Can I ask you what you meant by this last (and earlier) remarks? Do you agree we start using this template in the current state? Or are there some particular things you want to alter in this new header based on your {{header}} template?

The article Diagram in other Wikipedia projects:
cs:Diagram | de:Diagramm | el:Διάγραμμα | en:Diagram | es:Diagrama | eu:Diagrama | fa:نمودار | fr:Diagramme | io:Diagramo | it:Diagramma | nl:Diagram | no:Diagram | pl:Diagram | pt:Diagrama | sl:Diagram | fi:Diagrammi | sv:Diagram

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 18:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Yes, I think the header template should be altered a little bit to avoid confusion since it will be used differently than how it's normally used. Rocket000(talk) 23:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I wonder what you have in mind? The template I designed has some resemblance and some differences with the BABEL header, you designed:

Now I think there are several options:

  1. Change some small details but keep the resemblance
  2. Lose the resemblance, and start for example with the "collapsible boxes", which I noticed is now grey instead of blue
  3. Lose the whole idea of "The article ... in other Wikipedia projects" box, and for example:
    1. use the BABEL box instead
    2. combined with the ?uselang function
    3. and create only one wikilink to the article in the Wikiproject in every language.

I wonder if this third option is even possible here. The idea that we don't need an extra separate header seems rather attractive to me. What do you think? -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 00:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I can create a new type of header just for WP article links. It should be like {{header}} but not exactly the same. BTW, that's used for every project page with translations (like COM:VP and COM:L), not just COM:BABEL. I don't think using the collapsible function is useful in this situation. There's not that much to hide. So I would go with your first option. The last one sounds nice, but it's not possible unless we use {{int:}} and, well... see Template talk:Information#Why not translate this like the interface?. Rocket000(talk) 01:05, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I just noticed. It looks great. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 08:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC) P.S. I will study your last comment some more.

Source template[edit]

Hi again, I can't work out what I'm doing wrong with Image:Pepstatin.png. Why is the "Source needed" message still appearing when I've given a source? I tried removing the weblink from the source field, but that didn't fix the error message. What's the problem? TimVickers (talk) 20:48, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

The author's name is needed when using {{PD-author}}.[6] Rocket000(talk) 00:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I'll go and fix a few others now! TimVickers (talk) 01:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Image Deleted[edit]

Hi I would like to have some information about some pictures which have been deleted (as Image: Shop-piaget-paris.jpg or Image: Manufacturer-Piaget-de-Haute-Horlogerie.jpg or Image: Show Piaget Polo-Grand-Modele.jpg ...).

You speak about "violation copyright" but theses images are the property of Piaget which has allowed us to use them on wikipedia. Why have you removed them? What can i do to change this situation ?

Many thanks for your answer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piaget (talk • contribs) 09:42, 18 Aug 2008 (UTC)

Hi, please see our licensing policy. "Use on Wikipedia" is not enough. All images on Commons must allow free use for everyone. I'm also not seeing that the pages you linked to ever existed. Rocket000(talk) 09:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

{{Category redirect}}[edit]


why should delete empty "category redirect" ? These categories are very usefol to avoid dupe.

Cheers.--Bapti 19:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing you never had to clean up one of these category "redirects". They cause so many problems. Every single upload/categorizing bot puts images in them. Users put images in them with Hotcat.js or because they see a blue link. Category redirects should only be used when absolutely needed. Rocket000(talk) 20:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Rocket000, could you please wait with deleting category redirects. Lot's of wikipedia's still link to these categories. I will implement the fixing of category redirects soon in commonscat, than you can savely remove most redirects. Multichill (talk) 20:25, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
OK. (I didn't think I was deleting anything still used.) Rocket000(talk) 20:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Gee if you were back linking with {{Commoncats}}, wouldn't happen much.
But I agree... I figure on getting a Bot that can patrol those regularly. Didn't know til your note yesterday that wasn't happening.
Do you know I can't figure out how to do a interwiki to the commons category here on en.wp... just tried... and went down in flames.

When time to browse, take a look at
This file comes from the wc collection and is copyrighted.
Note: This permission only extends to photos taken by wc at this link, in addition to files which may be provided via email. It does not include any other content from those sites which has not been provided by wc.
w:en:Creative Commons
attribution share alike
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... looks to me these should be imported here, gallery-ized and advertised internationally. What say you?
Should be back over here shortly for our tasks... Cheerio // FrankB 20:58, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Why not use a bot for clean up these category redirects ? I'm guessing that Category:Dairy Farming is useful to avoid a dupe of Category:Dairy farming. Please remember that a lot of users of Commons are NOT native english speaker and have some difficulties to find the correct cat. {{Category redirect}} is very useful...--Bapti 16:46, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Exactly, that's one of the main reasons to get rid of poorly named category redirects. Non-native English speakers will not know which category to add images to if both show up with Hotcat.js and both show up as blue links. Rocket000(talk) 21:55, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Continued {{Category redirect}} saga[edit]

Till now, I thought I managed to keep the Category:Non-empty category redirects nearly empty by putting an hour or so of work per day on it. But because I was a bit annoyed with the empty cats that did not disappear from the category display, I did a dummy edit on {{Category redirect}} and wow, look what I had. Frustrating and time for a daily bot to sweep in it or get rid of redirects.

Anyway, the non-empty template seems to work often with quite some delay, while I nver have seen an empty go away without a dummy edit of the concerned category or template, which is not a major problem... --Foroa (talk) 17:56, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I wrote a bot a couple of weeks ago to clean out Category:Non-empty category redirects (with a dummy edit!), but i'm a bit reluctant to run it as a daily job because it could be used for vandalism or other nasty things. Multichill (talk) 20:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I already see people using it to rename categories... Rocket000(talk) 01:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
I have been monitoring it for several days and there are little attempts of users to force a rename through the redirects. But personally, I try to clean out a couple of rename/move requests per day and I handle that by converting a rename request into a redirect which I bot move the day after. This monitoring was possible because there were little non-empty redirect items, but with the current volume, I can hardly see what is going on. Anyway, I believe that the request for the redirect move bot got the green light, although personally, I believe that there should be a human check each time before it runs. --Foroa (talk) 06:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

BOT estimate question[edit]

Need to find one for England and the UK... which tied me up last night. Want info, about Bots operations... take a look into
    • Maps of England at the green Dot locator maps...
    • What kind of 'time' does it / would it take to "link to" (?input?? Say "Sic 'em for"??? select????) about half those
    • and time-2 actually recat those selected to Locator maps of towns in England,
    • and the same questions for the "other half" to: Locator maps of cities in England.

   ( I infer time-2 and time-4 would be more or less equal. But, heck...Is is safe to presume time-1 and time-3 are comparable?or is there an improvement for some reason because of software features?)
    • There's got to be better way and I needs it! [Not to mention an quality atlas of the UK and perhaps some intensive remedial world wide geography. :) ]
    • Just trying to prioritize... this kind of thing bites me all the time in maps... hell, here on the commons!
    • I need some kind of automation, but that takes time to master too, I'd think! // FrankB 17:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


{{move cat|Nicandra physaloides|Nicandra physalodes}} When you get a chance. One is a flower from Peru and the other (which we do not seem to have images of) seems to be a garden species called shoofly something or other in natural (and living) language. My tendency is to delete the emptied category since it is not mentioned in any of the sciencey places. -- carol (talk) 01:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

{{move cat|Mandragora autumnalis|Mandragora officinarum}} another one. -- carol (talk) 03:19, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I am going to call the first one a mis-spelling and opt for the spelling that is used by more of the sciency places. The deletion tendency has turned into a strong feeling for deletion. I have found mis-spellings from herbariums and such, it is interesting because from that point a view of the automatic science paper writers can be seen, heh. -- carol (talk) 01:11, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
And yes, the gallery Nicandra physalodes. If that can be deleted, and the gallery for Nicandra physaloides moved into the namespace, it would be great. The move was made by an IP editor and I have a list of urls that says differently:

My move notes:

and a lack of urls in:

✓  Done I left the redirects. Rocket000(talk) 04:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I am going to request that the gallery name be deleted though, it is just wrong. Maybe the others also, I need to think about it some though. Thanks again! -- carol (talk) 05:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
I would leave the redirect.. Other projects spell it the other way. See the Commons link on en:Nicandra physaloides. Rocket000(talk) 21:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Esteban Terradas.jpg[edit]

This image is a self picture, the author died on 1950, and I inherited it, and so it is actually my property. I may haven't explain it on time. Sorry for the missunderstanding.--Paco 07:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Did you inherit the picture or the copyright? The picture may be your property but that doesn't mean you have the copyright. Rocket000(talk) 21:55, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi Rocket,

It would be nice if you could add a little bit of template documentation to this one. It looks more complicated that I had first anticipated. Source code is read many more times than it is written, so I think it pays off in the end to add a little documentation.-- Slaunger (talk) 11:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

File:Walter Johnson throwing.jpg[edit]

After I was informed about a possible problem with that image, I provided the necessary information. You may read about it here. I cannot follow the rationale, why this image was deleted anyway. It was tagged with

  • {{Copyrighted free use}} - Copyrighted, but the copyright holder allows anyone to use it for any purpose.

If there still existed a problem, what was it? --Goodgirl (talk) 12:17, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

The image description page had the following: "the picture was {{Copyrighted free use}} by the original uploader ELutske on the English WP" I truely doubt that the uploader is the author of an image taken in the 1910s. It is very likely this could be public domain due to age but a source is needed to verify that ("transferred from Wikipedia" is not a source). Rocket000(talk) 21:55, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. Do you think, the licensing on this page is clear enough to upload it to Commons? --Goodgirl (talk) 07:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
That's a mirror of Wikipedia. So we can't use that as a source. Rocket000(talk) 02:18, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


Remember this? I am finally reaching the end in describing and carrying out the Commons:Valued image closure for valued image sets. I added a titlescope parameter to this template to make it link to the promoted valued image set in all cases. However, the template does not quite work as you can see here in this test. I can't figure out what is wrong? Is it them pipes teasing us? I even simplified the original scope parameter, which had links, but that did not seems to work. Cheers, -- Slaunger (talk) 21:13, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi, can you clarify what you're trying to do? It looks like it works to me. Rocket000(talk) 01:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it appears, that was is specified as the third parameter is not recognized, as it is the fourth parameter, which is shown when expanding the review. This means that the lionk to the valued image set gallery is broken as that should be determined by the fourth (unnamed) titlescope parameter, which should make the link point to Valued image set: Thespis, opera. -- Slaunger (talk) 05:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
It looks like it works: Template talk:VISCpromoted. Rocket000(talk) 02:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
It seems to break when the third parameter contains formatting/pipes, see User talk:Slaunger#Valued Image Set Promotion for an example. Can't figure out what is possibly wrong though. The update you made to {{VICpromoted}} is nice btw, especially the smaller font of the review! -- Slaunger (talk) 20:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I think I will "reset" {{VISCpromoted}} and use the source for {{VICpromoted}} instead as basis as that works better and has additional fancy optional parameters, which I would like to have here as well. And I will let the optional parameters be named, as currently there are several optional unnamed parameters, and that does not work when you only want to use the last one. So, spend you valuable resources elsewhere, you have already done well already on these templates;-) -- Slaunger (talk) 21:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
✓  Done Worked like a charm. Have a look at the cool examples in the template documentation! -- Slaunger (talk) 22:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Nice! I'm really starting to like those templates. I may have to give the QI ones a make-over. Rocket000(talk) 22:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, they start to look and work just right. You have deserved that as you have spend much time fighting for that expandable review section on various browsers. -- Slaunger (talk) 22:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi, you deleted the above image. I have left a message at the help desk but no-one has ever responded. I don't have an off-line version of the image and now it appears it has gone forever. -- Mattinbgn/talk 21:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

All's well that ends well! I wasn't sure if I had not followed some protocol or not. Despite having uploaded may images and have done a bit of sorting, I am almost entirely ignorant of how Commons works behind the scenes. Thanks for getting back to me. Cheers, Mattinbgn/talk 10:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

you scared me![edit]

Interesting sandbox where cat poo was dumped from the rest of the wiki into it and then safely removed....

Messing around in your own sandbox! Anyways, it was good because I pasted it and saved it (here) and when I need to point to what is in my opinion a wiki success story, I can put it in my boxen.

So, you can have your sandbox back (if you must) and thank you for letting me play in it!!! -- carol (talk) 05:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

 :) I didn't even mean to save what I was working on in the sandbox. I had the wrong window. I'll probably be using it soon anyway (I already got 3 sandboxen.) Rocket000(talk) 05:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Gunnar Westman[edit]

The category Gunnar Westman has been changed in Gunnar Westmann. This is not correct. His name is Westman, withe one n. See: [7] and [8]. Can that be corrected. Gouwenaar (talk) 09:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok.. If you're referring to something my bot did, you should contact the person that made the redirect in the first place. I don't know anything about this. And yes, you can correct it. Rocket000(talk) 09:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Template:Apioid superclade[edit]

The most recent has been a huge and very weirdly defined family. All the little things you showed me worked to manage things up until this one template. I think if you look at it that (perhaps) you can figure out what I was trying to make it do. The most similar example was managed with an if/then doey, this one does not have different {{{tribe}}} and {{{genus}}} though. So, two questions. 1) can you figure out what I want it to do and 2) can you make it do that? -- carol (talk) 11:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

It is only going to have {{{subtribe}}} and depending on the different "subtribes" the navigation is different. It could be done with {{{subtribe}}} or {{{clade}}}. I was trying to use the switch to make it work differently depending on the list given -- it was the first time I tried to use it without other things. Maybe if the category stuff came first.... -- carol (talk) 11:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Then you can't ask for a {{{genus}}}, which you were in the first switch. Rocket000(talk) 11:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Heh, I did that? Oops! Anyways, thank you, it seems to be working out now as much as their "system" is at least... :)
-- carol (talk) 11:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Question about template code[edit]

I hope you can explain to me how this bit of code works, since it looks like you inserted it into Template:Category redirect:

{{#ifeq:{{PAGESINCAT:{{PAGENAME}}}}|0||[[Category:Non-empty category redirects]]}}

I understand what the expression does -- if there are one or more pages in the category, it adds the link to Category:Non-empty category redirects to the redirected category page; otherwise it does nothing. But here's the question -- it would seem to me that this expression only detects whether there are any pages in the category at the time the {{category redirect}} template is added to it, or whenever the category page is edited after that (which should be rare). Suppose Category:Alpha is a redirect to Category:Beta, and Category:Alpha was empty yesterday. Today I add a file and put a "Category:Alpha" link on its page; does Category:Alpha automatically update itself and get placed into Category:Non-empty category redirects, and if so, how? --R'n'B (talk) 15:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not too clear on it myself. There's two factors here. One, the auto-categorizing by template. Any time this is done, the category will be very slow in updating. I used to think it got added to the job queue, but even when that's really low, the categories still don't seem to update. An edit to the template or to the pages it's on will update it. The second factor is the magic word {{PAGESINCAT}}, which is considered an "expensive" parser function because it makes an extra database query. These are also are slow in updating. So with these two factors combined, you practically have to edit something for it to update. However, adding a image to a redirected category may activate {{PAGESINCAT}}. I'm not sure, but the category somehow fills up continuously. Rocket000(talk) 16:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
P.S. The categories may also update when the category page is simply viewed since a value for {{PAGESINCAT}} must be generated (unless it's already in your browser's cache). Rocket000(talk) 16:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
I am puzzled by that too. I think that the whole system is built as a transaction system. A cat update of an image sends an update transaction to all concerned categories. The categories that receive the transaction update their tables and re-evaluate their templates, which might cause other transactions to ripple to parent categories (Why some much used templates are protected as changes ripple through to all their used categories, thus very hard for the system). What I fail indeed to understand is that the addition of a category is immediately visible, while when a category disappears, it does not seem to ripple through at all. --Foroa (talk) 16:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


The Image:Original_Barnstar_revised_for_Orienteering.png was created by me using two images from the commons could you put that on it or explian how to do so because I thought it already said that.ARBAY TALKies 16:02, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, it's fine. It's just missing a license tag. I'll fix it for you. Rocket000(talk) 16:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thankyou :-) ARBAY TALKies 16:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

subst:uc:X: what is that for?[edit]

Hi Rocket. I see that your bot is adding some code I haven't seen before[9]. Can you explain what it is for? It looks a bit awkward to me... Cheers! Siebrand 12:45, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Heh, it's my AWB way of capitalizing the first letter of categories. A cheap work-around. It just stayed like that because it was inside a comment... I thought I had it ignoring comments. Rocket000(talk) 12:50, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

vertical-align in userboxes[edit]

Hi, I replied last night on my talk page; I'm not seeing the issue, so could you explain a bit further what seems broken? Cheers, Jack Merridew 02:53, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


Check email. —Giggy 08:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... I don't see anything there. Rocket000(talk) 08:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I just sent one via Emailuser. I take it didn't come through? (Those darn servers....) Send me your email address ( and I'll resend. —Giggy 09:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Got, replied, ping. —Giggy 09:15, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Cities and villages in Spain[edit]

You probably noticed in Category:Non-empty category redirects that a commons newbie is restructuring a lot of "Cities and villages in Spain" towards "municipalities of Spain" by placing redirects. That looks dangerous without broader consensus of the Spanish community and is a precedent how not to use redirects. Any idea how to handle that ? --Foroa (talk) 10:40, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Sigh... this is exactly why the redirect bot can't run by itself. I don't think he needs a broader consensus of the Spanish community but he needs a broader consensus of the Commons community. I'll revert these redirects and say to go to COM:CFD instead, however, I think I'll leave them a bit to show others what can go wrong if a bot was continuously running. Rocket000(talk) 18:52, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Query <entitiy>[edit]

OK So we have {{Query species}}, {{Query chemical}}

What other entitys might need to be covered?

I've started a Query Place one...

But I think - Query Rock, Query Period and Query Person should be considered unless already covered by other templates? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 16:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I think you have great idea here with these templates. I really like {{query species}} and {{query chemical}}, I think {{query rock}} would be good too, however, I'm unsure of the usefulness of having one for things like place and person since there not really specialized fields. I'll think of some other ones that might be useful. Rocket000(talk) 19:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Category redirects[edit]

Hi Rocket000. I think I am on to something! I might have cracked the category redirect problem! Take a look at my responses over at w:Template talk:Category redirect#New categorization ideas and in the next section "Soon obsolete?".

And here is the MediaWiki API query that lists all the hard redirected categories on Commons and how many pages/images/subcategories there is in each of them:

Now you don't need any tricks or bots to find the cases. But you still probably want to use a bot to fix all those cases.

(Please respond over at w:Template talk:Category redirect since I am not likely to see your answer here, since I almost never check my watchlist here at Commons.)

--Davidgothberg (talk) 19:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I always forget about the api.php/query.php. Anyway, I'll be over there shortly. Rocket000(talk) 19:42, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I have talked to the MediaWiki API devs about the "generator + categoryinfo bug". The problem is solved, we can now use the API. See my explanation at Template talk:Category redirect#New categorization ideas. Now your bot doesn't need to visit the redirected categories anymore! Unless of course the API call shows they contain pages that need to be handled. (Or you can use an API call to get the list of pages in the category.)
--Davidgothberg (talk) 13:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi Rocket, would you please be as kind as to have a look at this image. It was imo deleted for no reason, and more than once. I think there's something wrong with "Unknown - No timestamp given".

Last deleter, User:Mardetanha, tells me he restored it (see ), but the pic does not show up on my screen (up to now, at least).

Besides, CommonsDelinker "did his job" meanwhile, I therefore can not see wherefrom this imo valuable portrait image was removed (besides: deWP). --WeHaWoe (talk) 22:05, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

See also: -- the picture was removed from enWP, BECAUSE it was on COM. --WeHaWoe (talk) 22:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

It shows up for me. Rocket000(talk) 23:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
It does to me, meanwhile, too.
  1. I suppose it is "clean" now, but...
  2. I still do not understand how it could be tagged "Unknown - No timestamp given", and removed due to this.
  3. Is there a practicable way to "generally" undo such CommonsDelinker-action? I'll do it manually on thisone, but ask "in case" similar happens again. --WeHaWoe (talk) 17:16, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
  1. Good.
  2. When it's tagged as "Unknown - No timestamp given", it's missing essential information such as source, license, and/or permission. If that information is not added within a certain amount of time (at least 7 days normally) than it can be deleted.
  3. Unfortunately no. There is a log of CommonsDelinker's activities but that's it. Rocket000(talk) 21:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

template functions as a means to communicate?[edit]

{{badname}} is no longer functioning for duplicate or mis-spelled categories. When you get a chance, could you delete Category:Scabiosa_caucasica? The gallery makers -- for whatever reason, they seem (due to their actions) to be afflicted with communication problems. -- carol (talk) 14:00, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

And a few seconds later and it was gone! heh! -- carol (talk) 14:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
It didn't stop working, it's just the "correctly named" cat was the same as the badly named one. It was linking to itself. :) Rocket000(talk) 14:16, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Heh, so I was the problem then -- not the first time....
You know, I used badname because earlier today, my speedydelete was reverted without even asking me about it. Now, I talk to the gallery people as if they are 'tards and in need of patience and extra assistance. In my real life experience, those who actually have been labeled as "'tards" don't have the same understanding and communication problems that I have experienced here with that group so, no offense to the real 'tards is intended. -- carol (talk) 14:18, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

pls renew talk page with ongoing talk[edit]

Please renew the page Category talk:Friedhof Bergmannstraße you have deletd just now. After the category has been blanked we started there a discussion on the category, which is ongoing, which is not finished and which could be important fot the further categorizing of the images. Thanks. -jkb- (cs.source) 14:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. Rocket000(talk) 14:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

That can happen. OK, thanks for renewing, regards -jkb- (cs.source) 14:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Interstate 195 (New Jersey).svg and Image:Interstate 381 Virginia.gif[edit]

75.47s put a pale blue (sd-duplicate tag) on both images when those looks similar and close but not 100% duplicate. I have no problem with deleting or keep them, but should I remove the blue tags or leave it.--Freewayguy What's up? 18:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you may remove the tag since they are not duplicates. It was also kept per Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Interstate 195 (New Jersey).svg. Rocket000(talk) 21:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Wait, what do you want me to delete? I-195 (vint).svg is different than 60px. Rocket000(talk) 00:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Delete Image:Interstate 195 (New Jersey).svg. It's supercede and no usage, and contains same information.--Freewayguy What's up? 01:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
But you said to keep it on Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Interstate 195 (New Jersey).svg. I don't think I can speedy it since it was already decided to keep it based on the deletion request. You can open up another one if you'd like. Rocket000(talk) 01:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
  • But I told them we got new image.--Freewayguy What's up? 01:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
  • I was the one who close them but I stroke the kept and change my mind.--Freewayguy What's up? 01:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Ok, ✓  Done , but I will instantly restore it if anyone still want to use it. Rocket000(talk) 01:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Category redirects[edit]

FYI, I did a one-time test run of the new version of on Commons today, and it worked well. It is now using the API to identify categories with contents that need to be moved, instead of relying on Category:Non-empty category redirects. If you're interested in seeing what it did, you can look at User:RussBot/category redirect logs/2008-08-26 and User:RussBot/category redirect problems. (I did find two glitches which I am fixing: (1) a few pages that were in two redirected categories didn't get fixed properly, and (2) some of the items in the "problems" log are false positives, because users tried to add an unsupported second parameter in the {{category redirect}} call and the bot didn't recognize this pattern.) --R'n'B (talk) 00:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Awesome. I'll check it out. Thanks for letting me know. (Should I remove the {{PAGESINCAT}} thing from the template? Or wait a bit? We can still use the other functions to test for malformed/self-redirected/broken redirects (now all that's missing is a double cat redirect check, which is impossible with templates). Rocket000(talk) 00:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi there

I was wondering why you deleted this template. It's broken a bunch of image permission boxes: [10]

Thanks for taking a look. While you're at it, perhaps you can delete Image:Anisodamine.png as db-self as well? Thanks! --Rifleman 82 (talk) 04:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

✓  Done and ✓  Done . Rocket000(talk) 04:20, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! --Rifleman 82 (talk) 04:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


Sorry for the late reply; I've been otherwise-focused. See my talk page. Cheers, Jack Merridew 05:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Durham Cathedral[edit]

I noticed that you added a "stupid bot" tag to the "fullingmill.jpg" image, and a request not to use it for the time being. It has been a significant picture in two architectural articles that I hhave written. It's now missing from them. Can you give me and indication of when I can put it back? There doesn't seem to me to be any problem with the license of the image. It is by far the best view of the front of Durham Cathedral. Mandy (talk) 05:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I didn't add any request not to use it. The template that's on there now is a just a standard thing bots add when they upload something. You can definitely use the image. Remove the tag if you want. The reason I said "stupid bot" is because it screwed up with the license tag and caused the image to be deleted. I restored it and fixed the tag so it wouldn't happen again. Rocket000(talk) 06:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


What century is it? -- carol (talk) 06:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

21st. Rocket000(talk)
Heh, that is what it is here too. Do you think it is the 21st century everywhere? -- carol (talk) 06:09, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
No. Rocket000(talk) 06:12, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Having been through portions of other centuries, lately I have this statement stuck in my mind: The US Military was not an early adopter of hair style tips from the Beatles. Personally, I think this means that there can be more in and on my mind than plant classification trees and ways that users end their comments; but who knows.... -- carol (talk) 06:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
A "real" question. Can you undo things that Siebot did easily? -- carol (talk) 06:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Only as easy as it was to make him do it in the first place. I would just have to make him do the opposite. Rocket000(talk) 06:12, 27 August 2008 (UTC) <-- Siebrand dug this out. Had I asked that several categories be moved from where people had been creating them this year without talking with them, I would have just "bitten it" and accepted it, but this is a more well thought out system, at least for the non-political parts of this world. I can say more well thought out because I made them when I saw problems with the Plants categories and I am using divisions that other people made that work more with the environment and not the politics. Then, also, watching the Plants of categories be SuperHeavyHandedManaged for the months between November 2007 and at least May 2008 (where, if any thing was subcategorized into those categories, it was immediately disembled, put into a gallery and the subcat deleted). It is a de-evolution of the structure here to move those files and subcats into categories which have suffered so much abuse. Blah blah, yadda yadda. I might have expressed my problems more clearly at Siebrands talk page.... -- carol (talk) 06:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I notice those flora->plant ones sitting in the move request category for awhile. I did the few fauna->animals ones, but wasn't sure about the plant ones. I meant to ask you about it actually. Consistency is more important to me than having the absolute best most accurate names. When I looked at Category:Plants by country, I almost renamed those cats myself since practically every one was "Plants by..." but then I remember seeing a bunch of "Flora by..."s when working on species categories. Rocket000(talk) 06:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
My perception of the management of those areas is that; well -- like the discussion of how to style the link box for the category of Diagrams. When I was categorizing things here last year, I found a ton of diagrams that were not linked anywhere, had no description, made no sense -- axis labeled with weird acronyms and other names or whatever. I dumped them into Diagrams because I did not know that they could be deleted and all I knew was that they were diagrams. There was a bunch of diagrams like that were uploaded from nl and I made a new category for them, "Philosophy of the Netherlands" or something -- due to the liberal laws there and my own personal experiences. This is a long explanation for what I perceive is the reason that somethings are the way they are here -- where a discussion is the surest way to make something not happen. There was a lot of discussing around that mess that was cleaned up (the "indexed" categories and the "cat indexed" categories). It is a fact that I will not willingly look at the category for Diagrams now; knowing what I did there. Perhaps, one day, if I can find my favorite liberalish substance again, it might be kind of a great time reducing that category (via deletion of nonsense items there) but there is no way I am going to even look at it now!
And that is not to say that I did not do some (perhaps most) of my best work under certain influences. It is just a good idea to wait for a different look to start ideas that were begotten then (or upload diagrams that were made). Hell, it did nothing but hurt my math studies until CalcIII at which point, the reduction in the noise and the assistance to the imagination really really helped with visualizing calculus in three dimensions. You know, both of my physics teachers were two years older than me. I needed confidence in my ability to learn, not confidence in what I knew -- back then. The tags, depressant and upper are not so descriptive in the real situations. And, to each his/her own! Functionality should be considered on an individual basis. One of my favorite old men from the restaurant had rumors of what would be considered legal alcohol abuse flying all around him -- yet he functioned very very well. Much more functional than me on a fraction of the same substance. People are very different from each other and to make one rule for them all like has been attempted is just not possible to make that rule actually work. The world is a nicer place as well when different people like different things. They were selling so many of this one brand of car for a while that the place that made tires for it seemingly could not keep up with the sales. Tires started to fail on new cars. If the mindless world would have thought more about buying something that suited them well instead of what the peer pressure told them to buy, everything would have been spread out better and less fatalities and lesser accidents on the roads.
I stray much from what is wrong with Plants of categories. More concise now, to me, they have been too much used to avoid the category messes that were made here. It is interesting how none of the creators of the categories had a problem with them disappearing. If it is important to you to merge Fauna of and Flora of categories into Plants of and Animals of, might I suggest that you look first at the Trees of categories and Birds of and Fishes of? Those, I am certain, were made for the same reason I made Flora of and Fauna of. I actually like the words Flora and Fauna; look them up. They are more specific definitions because they are not used so often in natural language. Mentally, it is easier for me to consider a bug (grasshopper, ant, beetle, mosquito) to be a Fauna than it is to consider them to be animals -- even though it is not according to one of the definitions of animals, it is not the way the word is used. -- carol (talk) 07:12, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Or a starfish. I saw a cool blue one today (photograph, not real life) and calling it an animal justs seems weird. I actually did look up w:Fauna... check out those navigation bars at the bottom. I think we need something like that. Rocket000(talk) 07:33, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
After pasting "Yugoslavia" as a place that a plant is native to too many times and having to expand it into the several new countries that are now that location, I am more and more happy with dividing the earth into larger divisions first. Oh, and for an Island like Jamaica being an equal to Russia politically -- I have no problem with that, but the politics is only a small part of the larger sphere and all that is on it. The mixing of the two: Plants from Jamaica and Plants from Russia -- it is actually, the plants on this little speck categorized along with plants on 1/6th of the planet (or whatever). I don't stylize well for wiki, especially when compared with others and in particular right now, you. Nearctic is actually in pretty good shape considering. The last stuff I put there was to help me get around in it. United States is kind of funny to look at in the same way as Jamaica or Lithuania and Russia. It really becomes obvious that they had no idea how big the continent was when they landed on the East coast and set up their politics. One of the areas I am working with contains two states and other ones have about 20 12 and 13 and the land masses are about the same. I used (maps start on page 121) and en:Ecozone and have lately been considering to make "Flora of Yugoslavia Biocountry" because it wasn't that large before they divided it.... I think I am more of a seasonal graphic person, like I am quite certain that I would be working on those maps more in the next few months and the appeal of having so many of these plant trees so tidy lately has been great to me. The same problems that are in the plants pages are also in the subdivisions of countries categories, where some countries are very mature and orderly Category:Germany last time I looked, I was well -- it was like thank god for the stereotypes! Then, the same language is spoken in Category:Austria yet, what a mess; so, it is not the language which makes the people -- not entirely. Heh. The subdivisions of the countries in South America though, they need love and patience and I needed better maps and some of the same things the categories of South America also needed....
Anyways, consider all of that, please. I would like to see where the ToL people say what they did do and not what they had intended to do; I suspect that for this to be accurate an admission that a few mistakes had been made should be included. And in the defense of the mistakes! If you had started on a wiki like this, would you have been able to imagine 3 million images? That the software can move things around is really a very good thing. Consider having the software move things back to what might be a more friendly scheme than always strictly by political divisions? -- carol (talk) 08:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

please undo siebots work with Flora and Fauna[edit]

See what they have: Diervilla lonicera <-- Plants of Canada. There is no Flora of Canada. You are breaking a different tree to add it to a tree which exists and has been run wrongly. That last statement is my opinion, the fact that they are not equal and cannot be emptied one into the other -- that is a fact -- carol (talk) 11:12, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

If I do that, I would want to change them all to one or the other. That's 100s of categories. I don't think we can make that decision by ourselves. At least, I don't feel comfortable/knowledgeable enough to do it. Rocket000(talk) 13:01, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
It is more simple than you are making it. If anyone is interested to see what plants are in Canada, they look at Plants of Canada. Those plants all exist where national Canadian politics work. Voting, military, infrastructure like trash and sewer -- those are political things. If you would like to see what plants grow in an area which includes Northern Canada (an environment that is very very very much different than Southern Canada), a region which has similar growing conditions to one of the states of the United States and also a completely different country named Greenland, then you should look at the environmental divisions. There is no "Flora of Canada" so "Plants of Canada" there is no moving those. Do the plants of the Caribbean include Southern Florida, btw? Because Flora of the Caribbean does and when you moved them, you mixed a political system with an enviromental division. Don't do that and please undo it. No amount of voting or infrastructure of Florida will change the fact that Northern Florida is a completely different environment than Southern Florida. I know what I am talking about. If "we" have a problem with this, what reason did "we" not ask the person working on this. If "we" have a communication problem, we should probably not do anything until our communication problem is repaired. -- carol (talk) 13:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
All I know is someone thought it should be the other way. I have no idea myself. My philosophy is not to mess with things unless you know what you're doing or at least think you know what you're doing. Can you ask the person who did it to undo it? Rocket000(talk) 13:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
It was Foroa, and that person was in communication with me and did not talk to me about it. How about assuming that Foroa is having problems since being voted in as an administrator here and undo that stuff. When Foroa asks you the reason that you did that, you have that person talk to me and ask me about it. Meanwhile, I was noticing the very stupid javascript messages that were appearing at English wikipedia right after my incredibly unintelligent and grossly stupid ban there. One of them was asking about people who want to redesign the front page. I am so not interested in that kind of thing and this new tree simply avoids all of that front page stuff and presents the information in a way that is more useful for the state of the science. If you are going to use the "we" to discuss this, you really really really need to admit to the time I put into this kind of information first. I still find it extremely unfortunate and a little expository (the part of the story which explains the problems that exist) that my article about the Unlimited Register Machine was deleted without any real reason. It was a great exercise for how much can be accomplished while keeping things simple and a failure to be able to accomplish the same thing should be more like "there are many different people in the world and some can do this and others can do that" instead of the deletion of it.
How much of the problems you have to unmove those files have to do with "redesigning the front page" and the deletion of the "Unlimited Register Machine" article at English Wikipedia? Also, do you think it is possible to vote that a person have abilities and that person actually get those abilities? -- carol (talk) 13:50, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that's the only way you can have or not have abilities, otherwise you're just a tree falling in a lonely forest. Ok, make me a {{move cat}} list and I'll give it to SieBot. Rocket000(talk) 14:16, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I thank you for the move list opportunity here, it is something I am not so much in need of (I suspect you saw the one I added to the sandbox). Access to the tools is also just access to the tools. Understanding how botany is different from the political grid is something I only have since I have spent the last eight months working with it. That eight months cannot be voted for or against and have them not exist. The simple/complex logic that I acquired when I solved that problem for my computability theory class -- that cannot be voted on. When my teacher said it was better than his solution, his phd had been voted on (I think that is how that works) but the elegance of the solution was a simple fact that no voting can make or unmake.
What the bot did needs to be undone which is not the same as emptying the contents of the Plants of the Caribbean category. I forget the logic words for this, heh. Injective and one to one relationships -- heh. Should I look that stuff up; set theory (uck). But the contents of Plants of the Caribbean were made for different reasons than the Flora of the Caribbean. There should be some overlap but the contents being equal is not a fact. What the bot did needs to be undone. -- carol (talk) 14:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok, now I get it. It's not Plants vs. Flora but Plants vs Flora and Plants. The problem is that there's no undo function for the bot. I would have to manually go through it's contribs and revert each one... Rocket000(talk) 14:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
That is sad then. I can help. I only know of the recent ones. Is it easy to search for when these were moved? You know, there was also some obscure reference here to an alternative meaning for the word "Flora" which is complete crap. I have about three or four alternative meanings for the word "ass" and they are not having any impact here because those meanings are obscure. Technically, there is no "vs". Maybe there is, but I would have to understand what makes a plant belong in a Plants of category before I could know if they are of opposing purposes. To me, they are different and for what I have learned, for the science and even for the state of the science, native location is really important more than the fact that they are growing at a location now. Adaptive evolution, kind of interesting. Perhaps it would not rival an eleven minute episode of something or another on Adult Swim, but interesting in a different way. So no more Plants "vs" Flora, okay? One exists strictly on a sphere which is divided politically and the other exists on a sphere which is divided environmentally. Migrating Fauna <--another problem I have not mentally managed yet, heh.
Back to the task. I can do this then if you can find all the times it was done. I would appreciate help and would be willing to do the bulk of the undoing. The non-communicative requester of the move could also in a show of that "good faith" stuff also help with the undoing. To say that all of the participating people who help to undo it are all good and decent human beings would be also a very nice thing (as opposed to well trained worker ants or whatever else the culture here seems to do to their good and intelligent and thorough people). -- carol (talk) 15:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
If you can find where it begins in Special:Contributions/SieBot I can do it pretty fast with the revert button and possibly AWB. Rocket000(talk) 15:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind. I thought this was buried deep in the logs. I'm on it. Rocket000(talk) 15:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict)17:02, 26 August 2008 thru 17:12, 26 August 2008 but you would know of the other ones that you mentioned. You are certain that Siebot does not have an undo to him (I think that most bots are male, btw -- different than I read from the botwriters here....)

You mentioned others? -- carol (talk) 15:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

archiving talk pages[edit]

So, I read that you are tired of archiving talk pages -- I am so happy to see those edits being undone without me installing .NET here and stuff that I would be more than willing to do the archiving for you this time !! -- carol (talk) 15:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it got them all. Now I just have to reverse the redirects and cleanup. If I get carried away and delete something useful, let me know. Oh, I'll archive it soon. I do it a special way (that's why I don't use the archive bot). Just double check my work for me. I did most of it without looking. Rocket000(talk) 15:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I left the time stamps like I suggested a bot should do -- humans can do a lot of what software can do or should be able to. If I had only used the rename bot I would not know how dreary the task is though and I would not know when to rename and what to rename to if I hadn't manually gone through all of those images. So, a human can do what software does but that human has to perhaps know somethings. I can make timestamps and a software should be able to do this also. When I write software that makes timestamps, it really is software and not people and that is what makes me kind of proud of my work. fini. -- just don't call me mizabot!! carol (talk) 16:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


Good! *g* --:bdk: 00:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Actual evidence that I am an idiot!![edit]

Heh, that was a good point made in your last edit summary of the Species categorization template.

Any attempt to make a person feel like an idiot will fail until there is evidence and right now I will totally agree if you want to call me one!

Thanks for including that. Is it going to be a problem on all of the pages where it is manually included? (yes, I am afraid to look) -- carol (talk) 06:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

That wasn't completely rhetorical. I wasn't sure if there was a reason you weren't doing it that way. And the double categorized pages are fine. (You'd be surprised at all the repetition we actually have. I recently came across an image where a upload bot added 3 of the same exact categories to the image all in one edit!) Rocket000(talk) 06:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
No reason except the idiot reason. It is nice to have anyone who is good with this stuff look at it, and it is nice to actually be an idiot while being accused of it. It really is! If I call myself a template beginner, it will nicely up the bar for template expertise, won't it? I would rather have ability establish the pecking order than any assumptions. Heh and actually, haha on this new day!
One more thing. I told a friend (same astrological sign, not that this matters) what I am doing with the plant stuff here. I started it with "I love what I am doing right now" and described it in less than 30 words and you know what? That friend completely understood what I loved about doing this. I suspect that there are fully at least 1/12th of the population who would understand this feeling from accomplishing this. The explanation of the simple template logic that is being used to do this was part of the 30 words (an estimate). So, even if you do not understand my persistance, perhaps you can simply understand my enjoyment of it. Not everyone needs to enjoy things like that and it would be a horrible and misfunctioning world if that was the case.
I really don't mind it when I did something idiotic and it was found. Today is a good day! Maybe Multichills bot can remove the redundancy from the templates -- that bot has done similar things. I know the good feeling when written software does what it is supposed to do and makes things to be nicer. -- carol (talk) 06:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

pages in cat vs dufus with includeonly problems[edit]

That thing -- that species needing images thing -- that is awesome!

This thing: <-- that thing -- categorized templates using the template. It was sad. -- carol (talk) 14:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry. I don't know what I was thinking. I didn't look at it until now, heh. Rocket000(talk) 14:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

qbert balloon[edit]

Ever see the game QBert? When the character was knocked off from the board, a balloon would arise showing a "Mad Magazine" cuss word which was one I used here before, something like #@*$&!!!

A comment template with a hide box that replaced the contents of the comment with a balloon like that might be useful to me -- especially for some of my reviews. I am not certain about how the people of this world are about the occasional use of some words, I tend to not mind the word but avoid grossness but the option to hide the objectional words or an unfavorable review of a review would at least be funny and useful for those who might object. -- carol (talk) 17:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Template category[edit]

You reverted the image on Template:Template_category to the PNG one and said that it looks better than the SVG version. What exactly is the problem on the SVG one so that I can try to fix it? TigerTjäder (talk) 20:13, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh nothing really's wrong with it. I just prefer the style of the other. I made those templates to work with those specific images (to the pixel). It also matches Image:Nuvola filesystems folder template.png. Keep in mind that there's no benefit to using SVG in this situation. There's no resizing or anything like that. MediaWiki turns SVGs in PNGs anyway. Thanks for the offer to improve it though. Rocket000(talk) 21:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Vandalisme by redirects[edit]

Hi Rocket000, could you take the time to revert all category changes by User:José_Luis_Abaixo. I think that the point of the redirect/forced move problem might be made, but we have to respond anyway that we don't tolerate such forced moves and massive reorganisations. I prefer that another administrator executes this so we show front, by preference with bot or AWB tools to show that we are "automated" against such attacks. Anyway, the proposed moves are not coherent with the organisation in Spain, except in Andalusia, where his friend User:veggg and probably instigator of this turmoil has been doing a similar exercise. I will take care of further cleaning later on. --Foroa (talk) 06:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Done. I started with AWB, but decided to use the revert button instead. Faster and I wanted to look at the histories. I noticed the names are very inconsistent (in real life as well), but I didn't fix the inconsistencies since I didn't know what to go with. Rocket000(talk) 15:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, there is a lot of clean up to do, especially after a edit war, why I started to work on it in the first place. But before doing anything, we have to get the system in a stable state, which is heavily disrupted by user:Veggg who undid already half of your moves. He does not seem to be willing to stop, so maybe there is a need for more drastic measures. Could you give it a try ?--Foroa (talk) 16:05, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Blocked for a day. I wish I could have protected something instead, but it involved many pages. Sometimes you have to force discussion. Rocket000(talk) 16:10, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. I will try to set the area in a decent coherent state in the coming 36 hours. Because it concerns a whole area, don't hesitate to block if an Ip or anyone else starts reverting. --Foroa (talk) 16:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I won't. I would have blocked for longer if it wasn't me he was reverting. Rocket000(talk) 16:37, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

natural cruft is a natural enemy[edit]

In real life, there have often been people who seemed to step in and appoint themselves as a "nemesis". It is a vehicle for fiction, things like that -- but the reality of the situation, the restaurant, the grocery store, (heh) even in classrooms -- there is just due to the fact that time moves on and understanding changes -- there is a natural enemy that already exists. Self-appointed enemies seem puny compared to the real thing -- honest! At the restaurants and the store, it was the large group of hungry people who were present and the mess they made while eating and otherwise removing stock; in the classrooms, I was in several where some of the cool stuff had been stacked in the corner (one of them had a giant slide rule which probably wasn't being used as demonstrations anylonger so part of a cruft pile which time and technology created) and I learned that some of the information I had passed along to my classes had been proven to be wrong.

One of my "self-appointed" enemies, was simply too stupid. I had a lot of respect for her in some ways -- she had a little home business of printing out eh, bookmarks and stylized things for weddings (I get a little queasy thinking about this kind of business, but it is apparently a good one). This woman and her husband were hacking the store I worked at using trust and the fact that there were two different shifts that did not know the finer details of the trust situation. (It was not paying for a deposit for purchases on one shift but getting the deposit back anyways from the other shift.) I was more interested in the computer and looking for problems there because my idea was that approximately $50/month was nothing compared to a job with the company with the software I had found the hole in. Then they built a hole into it by having two separate computers, tsk tsk.

The point of this is the futility of appointing a nemesis when reality is such a huge and real enemy and I could make many more examples of self-appointed enemies but the rest of the point is that it is really and honestly much more fun to "fight" a real enemy, if that is to be the motivational force.

I am not going to join into any discussions that have been started by anyone who has the appearance of a self appointed enemy. The natural cruft that was made via no one imagining 3 million images 3 or 4 years ago and the ways that the software is not being utilitzed at this point to really do what it is supposed to do is a natural enemy that is very fun to fight. If you are to join into any discussions, please consider these thoughts about the reality I have actually seen and been (occassionally thoughtlessly) forced to be involved in. -- carol (talk) 08:14, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

(no header)[edit]

I think that its everybodys right according to wikimedia policy to able to post his views. It is not called spamming. You bastard, don't try to delete my discussions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jelahi (talk • contribs) 09:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

It spamming when you paste the same thing repeatedly. Of course you are entitled to your views. And it's your privledge, not right, to express them on Wikimedia. As you noticed, I didn't delete all of them. However, this is not a soapbox and there's no reason to post the same thing over and over again. BTW, many of those deletion requests are incomplete. Rocket000(talk) 15:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


Just here to drop you a message. Best regards, --Kanonkas(talk) 19:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I unblocked since his time was almost up anyway. At first it look like pure vandalism, but I'm thinking we may just have a.. um, new user. Keep an eye on him. Rocket000(talk) 19:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for taking care of those redirects, I was a bit unsure on what to do about them :/ Patrícia msg 19:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Heh, no problem. It was the request to undelete a interstate that got my attention. Then I saw him redirecting pages like mad. Rocket000(talk) 19:46, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Check your inbox. --Kanonkas(talk) 10:37, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Time is up & you've got to reply to some questions. Check your inbox (soon you'll get an e-mail from me) --Kanonkas(talk) 15:46, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
No time to waste, we're now going live. Just accept this and transclude it ;) --Kanonkas(talk) 16:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Alacant and Alicante[edit]

Hello. I just wanted to remind you that category names here are in English and gallery (mainspace) names are in the native language. And please don't misuse {{category redirect}}. I know others have been, but this is not what it's for. It should only be used on blank and empty category pages and not as an alternate to {{move}}. Thanks. Rocket000(talk) 16:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I don't understand why it can't be "Alacant" as it was during a lot of months ago with no problem. I think you mean the name used in wp-en, because the name of "Alicante" is not English, it's Spanish. --Joanot Martorell 23:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I'm not agree to apply here in Commons rules from Wikipedia-en (or any other language), because it's not an English project but multilingual. It's not the English name, but Spanish and, in adding, it's not the native name. I can understand that categories should be in English and in Latin (or Roman) characters if it is a sentence, and if there's a en:exonym in English. But "Alicante" nor "Alacant" is not an English exonym, so the native form should be used. Indeed, there's no Category:Seville, it's Category:Sevilla. Why toponyms in Catalan should be in Spanish, but Spanish toponyms aren't in English exonym?. The rule you're telling is being applied unfair here. --Joanot Martorell 11:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'll fix them for you. Rocket000(talk) 11:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
People won't accept moving Sevilla to Seville, because they will tell you that in wp:en is "Sevilla". I think this rule is not good here. I know deeply what COM:G and COM:CAT are telling, but perhaps it would be of your interest to read Commons:Disputes_noticeboard/Archive:_Catalonia if you deal to understand my POV (and perhaps also most of those Catalan-speaker users). --Joanot Martorell 11:30, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
PD2: And, specially, this previous one debate. --Joanot Martorell 11:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Please, don't say me that there are more importants things to do when you want to say you're disappointing. Before I was more active here, and I've contributed a very strict scheme downside Category:Land of Valencia. I can understand that here are technical reasons, but... sincerelly... what's the technical need of changing, by exemple, Category:Alacant to Category:Alicante when it was well and peaceful more than one year ago?. An occasional user arrived here, and decided unilaterally to change the scheme (pushed by Juiced lemon, it must be said), not only to categorize his media. It's not about politics, it's about there were a hard work done by several users previously, and recategorizations were done by newest users without asking anyone because of politics of theirs. Sorry, I don't want to disturb you anymore about this subject. --Joanot Martorell 12:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


Please check Commons:Undeletion requests/Current requests#Image:Weg-jrp1.PNG and restore the original image, please. Also, I think it absolute nonsens to delete a good existing image just because you uploaded a new one. --Tuvic (talk) 09:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I thought I was doing you a favor. They're from the same image, one's just scaled down. Sorry. Rocket000(talk) 10:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Apparently not. :-) Thanks for restoring, anyway. I've also responded at Commons:Undeletion requests/Current requests#Image:Weg-jrp1.PNG. --Tuvic (talk) 10:13, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Scope translations[edit]

I have gone live with the Scope proposal, and have asked for volunteers to help with translations. Would you be able to add a language bar, please, to the sub-pages Commons:Project scope/Proposal/Summary and Commons:Project scope/Pages, galleries and categories? I'm not sure how those clever bars work. --MichaelMaggs (talk) 09:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Sure. Rocket000(talk) 10:00, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh, what would be some good shortcuts? Rocket000(talk) 10:01, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Siebot requests[edit]

I am unable to make requests to Siebot. The "owner" of Siebot is not an author of software either. There are two wrongs here. And an old adage that I will not go into. -- carol (talk) 14:42, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

If it gets discussed, that makes it stop. Suggest a discussion of the move. Flora of Mexico is an idiots category. Plants of Mexico already existed and that did not make sense. Changing its name did not change the nonsense of it. It is a huge land and the coast and the south are much more tropical than the northern parts. It saddens me that the intelligence is such that the people running things is so small. The political divisions would have made sense to me when if I had started when the category scheme here did but this many years later, the political divisions not making sense would also have made sense to me. -- carol (talk) 15:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't think you would like it if non-admins could control SieBot (even less then admins being able to). You can always make requests on User talk:CommonsDelinker/commands, but for something like this, I doubt admins will want to touch it. I know I don't. Too much controversy for something I don't know anything about. Rocket000(talk) 16:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Are all admins "trusted users"? -- carol (talk) 16:05, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Pretty much, yeah. It's more that they can be if they want. When a trusted user becomes an admin they don't go off the list, but if a non trusted user becomes an admin, they don't automatically go on the list. But it doesn't really matter since they can do the same things anyway. Rocket000(talk) 16:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how I became a trusted user. I felt it reflected honestly that I really could be trusted to do things and it made me kind of glad. Eh, there was someone who was perhaps into the "harrasment" thing who challenged my Flickr uploads (I read the license and pasted the template myself) -- that was eh, more of an irritation than it was entertaining so, to be able to approve my own uploads and avoid that kind of irritation was really nice.
I find it interesting that being a trusted user is not a requirement for admin privs and when I don't trust the admin (due to experience with them or situations where the management seems kind of not consistent with their personality and things they said before, etc) now I will be able to honestly not trust them, heh. No one trusted them first kind of thing.
There were so many war stories and movies that were about the appointed people failing to be good at command in real situations (breeding doesn't beget that, experience does) how sad and boring to watch the same old crap going on here.
Do you want to be a Beaurocrat, btw? (only spelled correctly) Speaking of boring.... -- carol (talk) 16:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Category redirects (again)[edit]


As I said to Foroa, (Again) please stop speedy delete category redirects, as Category:Roquemaure or Category:Polygone de tir de Canjuers.

Destroy the work of other contributors without any agreement of the community (Commons:Category redirects suck is not a rule) is clearly an abuse of your sysop status.

Please stop the speedy delete. If you think that {{Category redirect}} is a dangerous template, feel you free to create Commons:Deletion requests/Template:Category redirect.

Cheers--Bapti 17:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Commons:Category redirects don't suck is not a rule either. Rocket000(talk) 20:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Yeh, but Commons is a wiki and some contributors create those redirects. You have NOT the right to destroy their - our :p - work without any agreement of the community.--Bapti 17:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
I have been using and also building at commons for a while now and I gotta say that I think that category redirects are not so good. I used to like them but now it just seems to add extra categories when a little text can do the same thing. One example is the names of places with the non-ascii characters in them. A search picks up these words with the ascii version either in the names of images or in text that is included in a gallery or category and the redirection stuff really seems to invite those who enjoy to be abusive to others, or even worse, a melodrama in which the admin who have access to the computers instigate for no good reason that I can determine except that they can do that. What would be really nice would be a way to suppress the template stuff in search results and perhaps add metawords to the categories which would do everything a redirection can do and more. -- carol (talk) 19:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, something like that was tried awhile ago. And up until recently, some pages still had the list of search terms. It really didn't work. To do it right, there has to be a software change. Rocket000(talk) 20:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but recreating them is destroying the work of the deletionists. :P Seriously though, deleting redirects is not the same as deleting someone's article or anything where they put any significant work into. Many times they are simply the result of a moved category. If we do have people hard at work making redirects for no other reason except they think they might be useful, we have bigger problems then I thought.. As {{category redirect}} even says, it should only be used on existing categories. I'm all in support of redirects for long-standing categories that get renamed, but after a reasonable time to allow links and such to be updated, why keep them? Many times we have 4 or 5 English variations of the name and no redirects from other any of the other thousands of languages, yet surprisingly the system works. I don't think they're as useful as you think, but maybe they're not as useless I think either. I try to delete only those that I can't see as helpful. Of course, I'm going to be wrong sometimes since it's nearly impossible to know for sure what someone else may find useful (this goes both ways, BTW), but these are redirects we're talking about. Yes, it's 5 seconds more work to recreate it, but to me this worth it to get rid of the really useless ones. I'll be more cautious with the deletions though. I know sometimes I get carried away with excessive tidiness. Rocket000(talk) 20:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


You think this is scary? Wait until Lar starts asking you questions... Patrícia msg 15:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry about that, if it happens! You're doing just fine. --Kanonkas(talk) 16:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Feature request[edit]

I requested a few maps for my other project. It will be really nice when English wikipedias Walmart fails here.

In the meanwhile, this is kind of interesting due to how there are still not enough links to galleries that I guess people still do not look at them or something. I quoted you in this and my quote was funnier than when you said it.... -- carol (talk) 19:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you patient to explain to not delete empty species categories?[edit]

Category:Dichrostachys cinerea, Category:Entada rheedei, Category:Merremia hederacea. I cannot seem to type slow enough for that one to understand complicated ideas like Category:Species needing images. -- carol (talk) 15:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I won't delete them. Rocket000(talk) 15:50, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
That is nice, but how many others will I need to ask individually to not delete them? -- carol (talk) 15:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Um, remove the tags maybe? Rocket000(talk) 16:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Edit war trigger. No communication. Deletion of talk page attempts. And then there is usually a request made at the board administrators page. Personal attacks in the edit history also. It is unfortunate and sad to me. The first time I encountered this user was in QIC via a beautiful photograph of a frog that I think I supported and Dschwen also supported. More of my experience was that after having very bizarre and unpredictable communications with that user here, this user went right to English wikipedia with a plant image that needed an identification. I am lacking in understanding to add the other things to cause and effect. With the exception of my honest enjoyment of that one image; the "personal" parts seem to be all on that side and I am really really sorry about that. -- carol (talk) 16:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, it's hard to defend empty categories (especially when you like deleting them like me). You're doing something that really hasn't been done here before. That doesn't make it wrong, it's just that anytime you change things up or introduce new things, you can't expect everyone to be on the same page as you. Try explaining the system to her. Don't edit war. Let them get deleted, they can just as easily be restored. Concentrate on conceiving the user this is a good idea instead of the survival of your work. Rocket000(talk) 16:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
You added the thing to the categorization template that automatically counts the images there and removes the category. Functionality should be easy to "defend" and dysfunctionality goes away. "Fun" is first in the word function. Every attempt I make to communicate ends up at the administrator boards. In the United States, we have a word for that kind of person.... -- carol (talk) 16:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
((edit conflict)I am not going to suggest that there are no rewards for honest and impartial reviewing of images, but sometimes it seems that way. This Image:NYC Norwegian Dawn.jpg and this Image:Litoria caerulea - Darwin NT.jpg were nominated at the same time so that it looked like the frog was looking at the boat. That in itself is not enough of a "thing" but when I looked at the image of the boat at full size, there was a mascot aboard that ship dressed in a frog outfit and waving. So at that point, I decided to support the real frog photograph so that the two images would remain together in the QIC archives. Commons:Quality_images_candidates/Archives_June_2008 this attempt failed with the classic skin which makes galleries only four wide but they are technically together there. Eh, that was also right after QICBot started to do more there at the review thing and the gallery maker was installed. I did do this one "vandalism" in which I put the frog into the Objects gallery there (looking at the boat). That vandalism has seemingly gone away now though. My question about the frog being dissected which is nominated there right now was actually a kindly and somewhat serious question. A few years ago, I experienced what might have been some drugs added to my herbs and if this person was having that same experience then this question should have been a good one to ask.
If you look at our actual history, however -- if I make any attempt to communicate it is considered to be a problem and that one goes right to the board administrators. So, not engaging in an edit war with an edit warring person is just about the only option I have -- unless you know of others. -- carol (talk) 16:38, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
You can do it the legit way: remove the speedy tags and nominate them for regular deletion. That will at least buy you some time. Rocket000(talk) 16:50, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
and you're an Admin? You should know that categories with no files should be deleted. Bidgee (talk) 17:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
You should know that categories with no files should be deleted Yeah, I wish. We have thousands of empty categories. Some people find ways to utilize them. Take a look around, you'll be surprised. Rocket000(talk) 17:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
When I did that, the nomination was voted on and closed in less than eight hours and the votes all seemed to be from Australia and from people who are calling me a problem now (as is typical in this situation). -- carol (talk) 16:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
At that point in time, that particular user seemed to be so "revert happy" that the template was reverted and there was also no understanding or familiarity with the deletion process shown. My efforts to say "the deletion tag was removed by this aggressive user" were not addressed ever. -- carol (talk) 16:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Now, I have a sense of humor, but even you must see that things like this make things worse. I really can't do any admin'ing given the circumstances. If it was on the admin board or somewhere a little more transparent then you and me on my talk page, I may be able to. Rocket000(talk) 17:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
The category was unmade, it was a little message for anyone who might have been aggressively reviewing my edits. Had I seen that there, I would not have thought it was intended for me but I just edit naturally with a purpose which is to solve some problems that exist between the category trees and the software recommendation of categories. Had I been bored, I might have looked at the history to see what the problem was though....
Also, I am really only here to emphasize that reviewing those two images and having that thing about them appearing together was one of those rewards for the impartial reviewing of images there. Also, to remind Rocket000 that that particular user has a sense of ownership with talk pages so I would like to recommend that if there is any feeling to delete that users message from here, it should be welcomed by that user. Thank you for the donation of your talk page. And, btw, Rocket000, would you have thought that this category was added as a message to, for and about you? -- carol (talk) 17:14, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Are you trying to suggest that I have ownership issues with my own talk page? Well comments such as this is uncivil and this (along with 3 others) was disruptive. Bidgee (talk) 17:21, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Carol you need to look at the way you talk and act to other users here. I've got them as speedy as there are not files withing the categories which I found when someone remade a category which was deleted in the past. Bidgee (talk) 17:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

My reply to your concern[edit]

Hello! It is good to know that you concern about making Commons a better place. I had replied your concern at the vote page. If you have time, drop by there and if you have more questions to me, they will be welcome. Regards, Sdrtirs (talk) 19:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I said to Patrícia sorry and I asked if she can forgive me.--Sdrtirs (talk) 19:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Empty categories[edit]

I think it might be an idea to get rid of them: The current system encourages more and more empty categories as "if that one can exist, why not mine?" - when in fact non-category solutions are probably better (like with the species categories for instance. Purging them also has the benefit of enabling us to find category redirects that should not be (like species->genus), and the pure spam of course - is there some in there? I don't know the Special page cannot report anything useful with all that junk in it. Would I get shouted at if I nuked the lot?--Nilfanion (talk) 22:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Heh, kinda answered at the other page. I'll think about how to generate some good lists. And yes, we have to be careful, there's couple category trees where some people insist on having empty ones. Rocket000(talk) 22:07, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I've generated a quick one here User:Nilfanion/Cats. Thats from the difference of Special:UnusedCategories and Category:Category redirects; its limited by the slow refresh of that special page. It might be an idea to create a whitelist of empty categories someplace in a single place, so they can be excluded from list generation - I'm guessing a database dump is the best method for that...--Nilfanion (talk) 22:25, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Nice. Yeah, a whitelist is good idea. I hope they start up the dumps again... we haven't had one since June 15. Rocket000(talk) 22:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
BTW, I use {{User:Rocket000/EC}} when I make lists so I have an automatic delete button next to each one. Rocket000(talk) 22:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
There are some on that list that are waiting for the software to apply the templates to that they will be filled. The problem I have been dealing with is the plant images in which the tree does not exist for them for the upload software to recommend putting images into. I don't know about your early childhood reading, but Captain Kangaroo read me the story of Mike Mulligan and his Steamshovel Maryann. I kind of took it as a warning to not race with improvements in technology if I did not want to be stuck in the schoolhouse basement. So I would like to recommend or request a template or something that would supress deletion until Commons:COMBotBot can be written. Did anyone here read that book or have it read to them? -- carol (talk) 22:43, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
en:Mike Mulligan and His Steam Shovel (I added some words to the title in the decades that have followed.... -- carol (talk) 22:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, I think I have a solution to the problem of soft redirects counting as empty categories. Let's categorize them in themselves. That way they are no longer empty and they don't affect the rest of the categories. This can all be done with {{category redirect}}. As for the whitelist (possibly including species categories) we can duplicate the list and simply leave out the colons. Instantly every single one is no longer empty. And as soon as {{PAGESINCAT}} != 0, it will be removed automatically. Rocket000(talk) 22:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
There is no place to direct these to though. They exist and need a directory and doesn't the redirect cause images to move from your bot? Consider a template that supresses the bot. Or, wait until the upload software has the knowledge of the taxonomy tree so it can make the non-existing location for new images. -- carol (talk) 23:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
{{nobots}} would suppress it (at least my bot and most other bots respect that). I don't know what the redirect bot would do if the redirect categories were categorized in themselves. Nothing I guess since it's done through a template and it can't change templates. And what would it change it to? The same thing and get caught in an infinite loop? They would still be considered empty since I would update the formula to {{PAGESINCAT}} > 1 = not empty. Rocket000(talk) 23:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Category:Wireless traffic detectors[edit]

Might you be able to either restore the subject category or at least let me know what text was in it when it was deleted? I have a number of images I've been intended to add to this category, but I went on holiday before I had a chance to upload them. Now I'm back from holiday, but am attempting to tend to the Blue Screen of Death on the computer that has the photos (the hard drives are OK; Windows is not). Even if you can just provide the text of what categories I had in put it in, that'd be all I need -- I can just recreate the category when I'm ready to upload them. Thanks! --Bossi (talkgallerycontrib) 22:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I restored it, but if it gets deleted again, the contents were:
 [[Category:Traffic detection]]
 [[Category:Wireless communications]]
Rocket000(talk) 21:57, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Bar templates[edit]

Hi Rocket000,

I was thinking of making some gauges/meters for COM:VIC displaying the statistics of how many percent of the candidates are promoted, declined or closed and undecided, and stuff like that using bars of the VIC status colours and having count numbers inside them and the relative size being representative of percentages.

I have all the data to do this from page counts in various categories, so I was thinking of using these numbers to generate horizontal bar charts showing the distribution. I then realized it could be some work making this work and started to look around if other people has done something along these lines.

There does not seem to be any bar-like templates on Commons. Is that correct? I found a template on en, en:Template:Bar box which would be excellent starting material, but do we have a policy / practises with how to use Templates from other Wikimedia projects? I have previously seen that it is frowned upon to directly copy templates here. Is there a smarter way? Can the en template be made available in the Commons template name space without having to duplicate template code?

Cheers, -- Slaunger (talk) 09:23, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I think you gave me this idea back when we were first working on the VI-count template... I remember making some kind of bar graph but I never finished it. I'll try and find it—it's buried deep in one of my sandbox's history. We don't necessarily have any policy on using other projects templates, however, the practise of copy'n'pasting anything from project to project is frowned upon. Luckily, us Commons admins (en.wp admins aren't so lucky) have a nice little feature enabled called Special:Import. It's as easy as moving pages. All the history is imported as well. So I'll do that. Rocket000(talk) 21:48, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
That's right. We have spoken about this before, and I have also done some preliminary work today, like {{VI-count/closed}}, {{VI-count/percent-promoted}}, {{VI-count/percent-undecided}}, and {{VI-count/percent-declined}}. I like the modular design of the en template. Like if I want to embed a stacked bar (different contributions adding up to 100%), I can just implement one and use it in the bars parameter of the w:Template:Bar box. Looking forward to your import. -- Slaunger (talk) 21:57, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
You mean Template:Bar box? :) Rocket000(talk) 22:01, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
He, he, yes! (and possibly some used tigether with that, but I will get back to that if needed). -- Slaunger (talk) 22:06, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
What? Like {{bar percent}} and {{bar pixel}}? Rocket000(talk) 22:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Promoted valued images
Year-month Images
Mindreader! ;-) -- Slaunger (talk) 22:11, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 :-) There's a couple others I saw, let me know if you want those too. (Bar percent 2 and Bar pixel adjustable) Rocket000(talk) 22:15, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I believe the ones we have now will keep me busy for a while;-) I will probably make a supplementary {{bar percent stacked}} myself (as there is no en implementation of that AFAIK). But not today, maybe during the weekend. Bedtime. -- Slaunger (talk) 22:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
First use implemented. I am proud of the (almost) maintenance free design. It automatically adjusts to the current month as the last bar... -- Slaunger (talk) 07:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
..and updated with live data (well, if you purge at least)... -- Slaunger (talk) 07:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
All can be seen in {{VI-promoted-monthly-graph}}. From a happy user, -- Slaunger (talk) 07:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Wow, it looks great. Good work! Rocket000(talk) 15:34, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Category suggestions[edit]

Hi Rocket000, you and Carol were busy creating new categories? I created a list with suggestions based on the files currently uncategorized, see User:Multichill/Category suggestions. Multichill (talk) 20:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Interesting.. I see some I will be making. Thanks! Rocket000(talk) 22:17, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
How long before the software starts to work? -- carol (talk) 23:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Are talking to me? I don't know. :) Rocket000(talk) 23:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Typing on your talk page :) I actually believe your last statement here -- carol (talk) 00:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
What software? I meant manually. Rocket000(talk) 00:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Please also see Commons:Village pump#Lot of possible new categories. Multichill (talk) 15:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Empty categories of railway lines[edit]

Please don't remove empty categories of Czech railway lines as you did in the case of Category:Railway line Postoloprty - Žatec západ, Category:Railway line Putim - Písek, Category:Railway line Protivín - Putim. These categories form an integrated system (and they are categorized by type of line). Thank You. (See also User talk:Rocket000/Archive 4#Empty categories of railway lines) --ŠJů (talk) 04:34, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry. I've restored them. It's hard to tell which empty categories people want and which ones they don't want. I promise to be more careful. Rocket000(talk) 15:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
It should not be so difficult to know what categories should exist or not. Not having a photograph of a railway line here does not mean that the railway line doesn't exist. Not having a photograph of a building in Saratoga (I am not certain if that city exists, btw) California does not mean that there are no buildings in that city. I suspect that there should be some limitation to how large the city should be before the category exists but railway lines are there and only a few new ones get added. It should be easy to determine things like this. -- carol (talk) 15:54, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank You. --ŠJů (talk) 23:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)