User talk:Wikitanvir (WMF)

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Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Wikitanvir (WMF)!

-- 18:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)


Greetings Wikitanvir: You -or a bot- left a message on my talk page. I followed your link to a pages which are already "too long, don't read." And I read all of it. It cost the project time I would have used to contribute substantively. I think perhaps your effort needs some more organization and less chaotic expression of opinions. Perhaps break it in pieces and have committees work on the parts? I am not going to join in the "shouting at clouds" that is going on now - and I'm not certain that this would even have any long-term effect on behavior on the projects - since the root cause is individual behavior not project rules.

During my time on the project, I have received several death threats for volunteering and WMF has done absolutely NOTHING to the perpetrators. One of them was later blocked - not for the threats on administrators - but for making controversial changes to the page of "Barney the Purple Dinosaur." The foundation did absolutely nothing to protect its volunteers - but acted quickly for the Purple Dinosaur. That really shows priorities!

Besides the overt threats, I have also received

  • Insults
  • Sexual harassment
  • Encouraging harm to others
  • Disclosure of personal data (Doxing)
  • Hounding - following a person across the project(s) and repeatedly critiquing their work mainly with the intent to upset or discourage them (1) and
  • Trolling

At no time in any of this did I receive help from the foundation. In fact, being female, in some of these situations, I couldn't even get any help from other editors or administrators. I can refer you to the page of one individual who was blocked after multi-year harassment and trolling - periodically someone still leaves a message telling Commons we should unblock him because he doesn't behave like that anywhere else on the project.

Because I edit under my own name, it is easy for people to find me to harass my off-site email - and this has happened on numerous occasions. Currently your system doesn't forward any email at all (see note on my talk page). I asked for help with this, received none and have left a message informing people that Wiki does not send me any emails at all on my page - else they would think I was ignoring them.

Even with all this, I like what I do for Commons, and I am still here despite the threats and the disrespect due to being a female administrator and bureaucrat. I have done what I can to help others who were put in similar untenable situations, but have never seen action from WMF.

Because of WMF's inaction, I do not have a lot of faith or trust that this project will ever protect their volunteers and this current effort just looks like more words to publish and subsequently ignore. Thank you for letting me know it's happening, but I'm not spending any time on it at this point. What the Board of Trustees approved is barely legible English and contains the internal contradictions busily being pointed out on the discussion page by folks who like having discussions. Not being among them, and unlikely to have more to contribute than they do, I find no reason to chime in. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 20:24, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

(1) I no longer edit on en:wiki very often due to harassment and I was doing good things over there. It made me sad, but it's not worth the pain.

@Ellin Beltz: Thanks for your long and elaborate feedback here about the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC). I am sad to read you have been harassed and so on. After years of consultations in the Wikimedia Movement one of the remedies that came forward is to have a Universal Code of Conduct. Now there is such a text. The current consultation is about enforcing the rules, which had primarily to be done by the members of the community of Commons, the ordinary users, the admins and the bureaucrats. You are one of the leaders, being an admin and a bureaucrat here, and have a role in enforcing a code of conduct, or the maintenance of civility. I wish you a lot of luck and good health. Ad Huikeshoven (talk) 15:02, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi again. WMF has the ability to stop any kind of bad behavior through the "terms of service." This CoC thing just adds another layer without any form of enforcement - which makes the rules are a total waste of time. Yes, I work for civility on Commons. We try to enforce the rules we have not make up new ones. As a matter of fact, if you will look at my talk page, you will see that one of our old problems is back again. User name is over there, no reason to say it again. Used to come onto Commons and revert administrator decisions - overturn deletions, mis-inform users, and behave misogynistically. Took us over a year to get him blocked, and he's still asking to get unblocked so he can go back to telling our admins why we don't know anything and how his ways are better. There's no way to appeal any of this. There is no higher power. WMF makes money to stay afloat based on volunteer workers like myself, but doesn't give us any support when we're hassled or threatened. Barney the Purple Dinosaur gets more respect. Admins in online chat rooms and video games get more support than we do from the Foundation. Now you want us to rewrite what is already written in the hopes you might enforce something this time? LULZ, sure. One thing you could do for Commons would to stop being stingy and check every incoming upload for Facebook, Instagram and Twitter transmission numbers. But no, that costs money, and the Foundation won't do it. Instead WMF makes volunteers waste time manually checking a metadata field for something which could be automated. This whole thing would be funny if it weren't so sad. Ellin Beltz (talk) 21:46, 10 February 2021 (UTC) P.S. Thank you for being dismissive of my situation. That "and so on" speaks volumes about how much you care.
Ellin Beltz, thank you for reaching out to my talk page. I appreciate your feedback. I'm sorry that you had to go through all this. I understand that you're not alone here and I also understand the frustration about not getting the expected support. This consultation is focused on changing that. Would it be possible for you to suggest what type of support you are asking for WMF regarding UCoC enforcement? Or should it be community regulated first and then to WMF? And once it passes on to WMF, how they can actually support them? What should be the timeframe you would expect considerable for such support? If you could be more specific, that would really help us to design an enforcement pathway that actually provides the supports the community needs. Wikitanvir (WMF) (talk) 13:36, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Google-docs survey[edit]

The "Please take a short survey regarding UCoC" survey has a bunch of typos--both grammar errors and even simple spelling mistakes that would be caught by a spell-checker. That does not inspire faith in this process. DMacks (talk) 16:20, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

DMacks, thank you for letting me know. Sorry for those errors as I'm not a native English speaker. But I'll go through the survey questions again and fix any grammatical/spelling errors I can find. If you have time, could you please point me to the errors so I can fix them rather quickly? I appreciate you help and I request you not loose faith because of typos, so please participate. Thank you! Wikitanvir (WMF) (talk) 16:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
  • "What kind of untolerated behavior you experienced/witnessed?"
This sentence is missing a verb. Maybe "What kind of untolerated behavior have you experienced/witnessed?" One of the options is "isult", which presumably should be "insult". The word "untolerated" is also vague? Do you mean that the behavior was not tolerated by the community (bad that it happened, proper response afterwards), or that the target of the behavior found it intolerable even if the community did not properly perceive and respond to it)?
While I was looking, there is a bunch of other disorganization/lack of clear meaning. I am numbering a few consecutive questions so I can refer to them here...
  1. "Do you know where to report unacceptable behavior in the Commons?"
  2. "Have you ever been harassed or threatened on-wiki by any user?"
  3. "Have you ever been harassed or threatened by any users with extended rights?"
  4. "Have you ever been harassed or threatened off-wiki for your Wikimedia activities?"
  5. "Have you reported your harassment/threat on wiki?"
Does #1 mean behavior that happens on Commons, or where on Commons to report the behavior? The #2–4 sequence is confusing: #2 and #4 are about where the harassment occurred, whereas the intermediate #3 is about who did the harassing. That additionally makes #3 unclear about whether it only refers to on-wiki (the preceding question) or about anywhere at all (the #4 does not specify a location). This whole #2–#4 splits the related #1 and #5 (and beyond) that are intimately related to each other ("do you know how to do" and a followup "have you actually done"). DMacks (talk) 17:19, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi DMacks, thanks for pointing them. I fixed the typos. About the sequence, #2 and #3 refer to on-wiki harassment, while #4 is about harassment that occurred outside the Wikimedia wikis but influenced by participant's wiki activities. I added a short description to both #1 and #5 to make it clearer. Thank you. Wikitanvir (WMF) (talk) 18:44, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Creepy photographs and the UCoC[edit]

Hi Tanvir, I hope you're well.

I would like your (or the WMF's corporate) take on the following four photographs File:VPL Visible Panty Line 1.jpg, File:VPL Visible Panty Line 2.jpg, File:VPL Visible Panty Line 3.jpg and File:VPL Visible Panty Line 4.jpg which were requested for deletion at the Commons:Administrators' noticeboard this morning. The images were uploaded by one of our adminstrators and oversighters, Raymond whilst the deletion was denied by Taivo just a few hours ago. Do you think the continued presence of material such as this, which is virtually certain to have been taken without the consent of the subject's, is showing the broad level of respect that the UCoC expects of contributors, especially those holding advanced permissions ? Nick (talk) 11:27, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

All the photos have been nominated for regular deletion and kept at least twice, so they are ineligible for speedy deletion. The photos have acceptable quality (what do you expect from 1980s?), depicted people are unidentifiable, the photos are made in public place and nothing strange or embarrassing happens on the photos. Taivo (talk) 11:35, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
@Taivo: if you think these images are remotely acceptable, then please resign and leave the project. Nick (talk) 11:57, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
No. If you do not want to work with me, resign yourself. Taivo (talk) 12:04, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello Wikitanvir. The above question is one of significant importance to enforcement of the UCoC. It would be very helpful if you reply with some sort of Foundation stance or interpretation. Regards, Vermont (talk) 00:52, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi Vermont and Nick, I understand your request. However, it is not possible for me to deliver WMF's standpoint on this matter as it falls outside of my official duties.
In my personal opinion, I can say that UCoC delivers a basic guideline for all Wikimedia projects and therefore has to be inclusive. But the community's expectation on "level of respect" expected from any users (including those who hold advanced rights) could be determined by the community as they are encouraged to have their own behavior codes on the top of the baseline that UCoC provides. Wikitanvir (WMF) (talk) 19:42, 5 April 2021 (UTC)