File talk:Brandenburg, administrative divisions - de - colored.svg

Ich kenn mich in der Bildbearbeitung überhaupt nicht aus... mir fehlt die Erklärung der Abkürzung P.-M. --91.208.45.101 13:17, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

ich glaub der Betrachter kann auch ohne besondere Kenntnis zur Erkenntnis kommen, dass P.-M. für Potsdam-Mittelmark steht und P.-M. nur nochmal (die Färbung legt das ohnehin nahe) der Verdeutlichung dient, dass diese Exklave (die ist es nämlich) auch zum Südteil gehört. Ich denke das versteht fast jeder --TUBS 13:21, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Übersetzung

Hi, ich habe versucht, die Karte mittels SVG Translate Tool ins Bulgarische zu übersetzen... Leider hat es nicht geklappt. In der Diskussionsseite des Tools wurde mir erklärt, dass es nicht am Tool selbst liege, sondern an der Karte. Kannst du mir vielleicht weiterhelfen? Hier eine Beschreibung des Problems:

SVG Translate handles Bulgarian. You've run into two separate issues.

When the file is larger than 250 kB, MediaWiki software may not notice that the file holds translations. Your map is 425 kB.

The image is not displaying any SVG text elements. You can see that by displaying the SVG in a browser: none of the text can be selected. All of the displayed text has been converted to curves, and the those curves are what you see. That is the SVG group "Outlines". The text that you translated is in the group "TT", but that group has display="none", so it is not shown.

SVG Translate does not warn about these problems.

The fix is more involved that just changing the display attribute; numbers also appear.[1]

Danke, Liglioto (talk) 18:41, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

German or English? Well, let's do this in English to be on the safe side. I usually have a layer TT that contains the original TrueType fonts. This layer is easy to edit. But I ususally keep this layer hidden, since Wikimedia often renders the TrueType text strangely AF. Thus, I copy the TT layer and transform the TrueType text into paths. That's the visible "outline layer". That's why your attempt fails. You need to open the file in a vector graphics program. Delete the outline layer, edit the TT layer and - if you don't want to do it exactly like I did - reactivate visibility. --TUBS 10:26, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

@TUBS Hi, danke für deine Antwort. Habe sie leider jetzt erst gesehen... Wärst du bitte so freundlich und wenn du die Zeit hast, die Änderungen vornehmen? Ich meine, es klingt so, als ob es ganz einfach ist (für dich). Ich kenne mich da gar nicht aus und müsste mich einlesen. Ich übersetze gern Artikel in Wikipedia, technische Programmier-Sachen kann ich aber so gar nicht... Die Schritte, die du beschrieben hast, habe ich soweit mehr order weniger verstanden, und versucht, umzusetzen, aber, wenn ich den Text in Pfade umwandeln würde, dann würde man nur den deutschen bzw. nur den übersetzten Text sehen. Ich weis, es gibt aber auch die Möglichkeiten, mehrsprachige Bilder zu erstellen, die sich an die Systemsprache in Wikipedia dann anpassen.

Außerdem, als ich den Outline-Layer gelöscht habe und denn TT Layer kopieren habe, um ihn zu übersetzen, erschienen auch so Nummer der einzelnen Landkreise... Ich wusste nicht, wie ich diese dann wieder ausblenden kann.

Also, die übersetzten Namen der Landkreise sind bereits in der Datei enthalten. Kannst du mit ihnen weiterarbeiten vielleicht?

Wäre dir sehr dankbar!

LG Liglioto (talk) 11:29, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Ich finde die BG Textschnipsel nicht in der Datei so wie ich die in Adobe aufmache. Geb mir die Übersetzungen als Liste de-bg! Ich glaube das geht schneller als wenn ich im Code oder irgendwo die bg Labels zusammensuche. Ich mach dann copy&past. --TUBS 10:09, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

PS: ja, da sind auch die Numemrn drin wie man die für File:Brandenburg, administrative divisions - Nmbrs - colored.svg braucht. 1x alt TrueType-Fonts und 1x als in Paths konvertierte Vektorobjekte. --TUBS 10:12, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

@TUBS: Thank you for contributing the file.

I removed the outlines in favor of using the text. It changes the appearance of the file slightly. I also removed the district numbers because they had display="none". The file now supports both German (default) and Bulgarian. They can be shown by going to the File: page and selecting "Render this image in (language)" and clicking "Go". Others can add translations with SVG Translate.

In general, it is better to use text rather than converting the text to curves. The curves absolutely set the appearance of the text, but the curves make translation difficult. SVG Translate has many limitations, but it does allow users to translate text-based SVG files to other languages. Putting text in hidden groups confuses SVG Translate users: they add translations that do not show up. There are situations where converting text to curves is reasonable, and frustration is one of those reasons.

Once SVG Translate has been run on an SVG file, then Adobe Illustrator may not be able to edit the file without deleting the added translations. That is a serious problem, but there is no good fix. I want the original contributor to be able to edit their file easily. SVG Translate adds SVG switch elements to the file. That's probably why you do not see the Bulgarian when you open the file in AI. AI has simply discarded the translation.

Users are often frustrated when uploading SVG files to Commons. That often means that fonts are substituted, the substituted fonts have a different appearance and font metrics, and the text looks poor. It gets even worse for small font sizes because the rendering engine that WMF uses has many bugs.

The font-substitution issue is more complicated for AI users because font information is encoded in the family name rather than being broken out into presentation attributes. For example, the original file uses font-family="'DejaVuSansCondensed-Bold'" font-size="24". Most systems will not find that font family, and if the font is not recognized, those systems will not realize that a Gothic font that is both condensed and bold is desired. Instead, a default font (perhaps Roman) with normal weight and stretch will be substituted. SVG wants the specification to be font-family="DejaVuSans" font-stretch="condensed" font-weight="bold" font-size="24". I believe Unix systems will not find the font "DejaVuSans"; they expect the font family to be "DejaVu Sans". To improve compatibility, the font should have fallbacks, something such as font-family="DejaVuSans, DejaVu Sans, Arial, sans-serif". The font "sans-serif" is a CSS generic font. Even with fallbacks, many fonts do not have condensed versions. I do not know if Adobe Illustrator can output those options.

Allowing extra space in the graphics also helps. Tightly fitting text may not survive a font substitution or a translation. It also helps if the text anchor (left, middle, center) are chosen sensibly.

Making SVG text work can be difficult, but it has benefits. The text can be selected, copied, and pasted. The text can be easily translated.

I've said too much. If you can, avoid converting text to curves. See {{Path text SVG}}.

Glrx (talk) 16:37, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

I see. Thx alot. I didn't even know that was possible. I still don't think that SVG text really looks good. In a reliable and predictable way across all image sizes and OS that is. But I'll absolutely accept your approach. Thanks for teaching me. --TUBS 08:58, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

@TUBS:

I'm not happy with the appearance either — that's why I've uploaded a few versions and may try some more. Using text-anchor="middle" makes the SVG more resistant to text metrics; that is an improvement. The original version had a font that was also scaled by 0.7 in the x direction (but not in y). Removing the scaling and relying on a condensed font seems more sensible, but then the Cyrillic font on Commons does not having a condensed stretch. Maybe anisotropic scaling or reducing the font size is the best way to go. The fundamental problem is trying to get the biggest text possible into a confined space.

Even with the faults, I prefer using text rather than curves. The result may not be great, but it can be more useful. Glrx (talk) 20:29, 12 July 2022 (UTC)