Commons:Village pump

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository

Jump to: navigation, search
This project page in other languages:

Alemannisch | العربية | Asturianu | Български | Català | Česky | Dansk | Deutsch | Ελληνικά | English | Esperanto | Español | فارسی | Français | Galego | עברית | Hrvatski | Magyar | Íslenska | Italiano | 日本語 | 한국어 | Lëtzebuergesch | Македонски | मराठी | Nederlands | ‪Norsk (bokmål)‬ | Occitan | Polski | Português | Русский | Slovenčina | Slovenščina | Српски / Srpski | Suomi | Svenska | ไทย | Türkçe | ‪中文(简体)‬ | ‪中文(繁體)‬ | +/−
↓ Skip to table of contents ↓       ↓ Skip to discussions ↓
Village pump
Welcome to the Village pump

This Wikimedia Commons page is used for discussions of the operations, technical issues, and policies of Wikimedia Commons. For old discussions, see the Archive. Recent sections with no replies for 7 days may be archived.

Please note:
  1. If you want to ask why unfree/non-commercial material is not allowed at Wikimedia Commons or if you want to suggest that allowing it would be a good thing please do not comment here. It is a waste of your time. One of Wikimedia Commons' basic principles is: "Only free content is allowed." This is just a basic rule of the place, as inherent as the NPOV requirement on all Wikipedias.
  2. Have you read the FAQ?
  3. Any answers you receive here are not legal advice and the responder cannot be held liable for them. If you have legal questions, we can try to help but our answers cannot replace those of a qualified professional (i.e. a lawyer).
Purposes which do not meet the scope of this page:
Important discussion pages (index)
Nuvola apps edu languages.svg

Contents



[edit] November 10

[edit] London categories

Can editors who live in the London area and who are thus already familiar with London place names and nuances of usage, please cast an eye over the work I am doing to enable easier diffusion of the huge image backlog in Category:London. There currently appears not to be enough knowledgeable editors reading the Categories for Discussion pages who appreciate the the need for these amendments and the advantages to doing it in such a way that is both coherent in its local context and remains consistent with the rest of the UK categories. So I appeal to you here to provide the necessary support to vote the right changes through. This “should” be easy, but between the limited times I have available each day to edit WC, other well meaning editors are making changes which confuse issues, so I find my limited time has been spent on trying to sort that out instead.

The background for these improvements are:
The old borough category names were too ambiguous or unclear for many up-loaders to Wikimedia Commons to know which was the proper “place” category to put an image in, so we have amassed a truly huge backlog. Whereas, a clear category system has already been worked out and adopted by [[1]]. Also, as up-loaders appear to consult en:WP before uploading it seams sensible and in keeping with Wiki policy to adopt the existing en:WP names as well, rather than invent something new.

The “London Boroughs” nearly got done by giving them their proper names but some of the possibilities for confusion has survived due to the way they were initially renamed. Example: Category:Haringey got renamed >Category:Haringey, Borough of London<. This cat then got redirected to the correct form of “London Borough of Haringey. This means that ambiguity has now been shifted to confuse editors using the hotcats tool where >Category:Haringay, Borough of London< can still be seen. What this means means in practice is, that it still stays the easiest choice for hotcat users, to place an image in too high a parent cat (where there are too many already) instead of lower down -bad practice. Because of the way humans recognize things in groups, it is obviously better to have the error going the other way; as should the image get placed too low down in the hierarchy it becomes easier to spot and correct by other editors, such occurrences tend to jump out at you. This needs to be fixed by deleting all occurrences of this bad formate ( >Category:X, Borough of London<) . The ‘WikiProject London’ way of arranging things appears to work quite well and is simple and clear.

Most of the images waiting diffusion, will also need to be added to their appropriate and currently underused Category:Districts_of_London (it is almost empty of existing entries to show up when cat searching, so it’s a chicken and egg problem). This cat is best thought of as a gazetteer type (the boroughs being local government groups). The efficient and most helpful way I can see is: if I was to create them ‘en masse’ using the same name as used on en:WP. Then add some gazetteer text so that uploaders know for sure that they have found the right (or wrong) category. This will take me some time as there is bound to be ‘districts’ added during the school holidays that are miss-categorised, so will have to check all those I don’t recognise. Problem: It is normally WC practice to delete empty categories, and the empty categories that appeared during the last change have already been deleted before anyone has had the opportunity them to use them. Also some ad hoc entries seem to have appeared in their place which perhaps ought not be there. Because this approach would initially mean a large number of empty categories, I was wondering if a template would stop them getting deleted by passing editors doing their normal tidy-up exercises. I am thinking of something along the line:

Administrators: Do not delete this category because it is empty!
This new category is waiting for images of  London by district  to be diffused into it.

This would also save uploaders from having to learn how to create the ‘district’ category themselves, what name they ought to give it (this will also avoid poor names getting created by them which will require further debate to correct). It will save them the inclination and effort to actually do it – which time has proven they don’t have in ample measure. Lastly: by adding these missing categories, they will from thereon, show up for use during category searches. It would also really be a great help to have someone who can both operate the bot to make these changes and understands the nuances so to avoid getting distracted by tangential augments. It then may become a much smoother and rapid process.--P.g.champion (talk) 18:59, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Empty categories shouldn't be that big of a problem. As you might have noticed I created a whole category structure for towns and villages at the British Isles and that still has to be filled up too.
Don't forget to add commonscat links at Wikipedia, this way users can easily navigate to the categories here and my bots will start putting images in these new categories.
And please do use sum-it-up to generate descriptions and backlinks. Multichill (talk) 22:02, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Problem is some of our present Boroughs are not historic but political creations to make administration easier, historical districts were stuck together regardless of where people thought (and think) they lived/live, this identification with a historic district is reflected in the Districts of London category, and the category should not be seen as mutually exclusive of the Borough of London categories.KTo288 (talk) 10:12, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for underlining that KTo288. However, that’s now become a bit of a moot point, because I have been forced to abandon this project by a single editor who continuously churns theses groups of images up, even as I and a friend are working through them. Also, I don’t see how anybody else in the right minds will want to help check for overlaps or gaps, because to join in this game of silly monkeys makes any further work futile. So it has became, sort of, stone dead.--P.g.champion (talk) 12:22, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Permission Requests Taskforce?

Last week, in the course of this FP nomination, there was talk of an awesome, 24 403 x 13 973 pixel mosaic image showing the same part of space as the candidate but available only by requesting permission from the author. This is not the first time this has happened - a superior image being available in theory, with the only obstacle being that we would have to talk to the author to acquire it (with Flickr images this is particularly common). As on previous occasions, no one proved up to the task (myself included).

I see a strong need for a small group of people on Commons dedicating themselves to the task of requesting permission/relicensing for exceptional images from the copyright holders. Often, when hearing about our project and what CC is, they are very much willing to do so. How about establishing a "Permissions Request Taskforce"? We already have the Graphic Lab, where users can request image improvement, Commons:Requests_for_translation, Durova's Encyclopedic image restoration page, where image restoration can be requested, and probably a few more that I'm not aware of. What I envision is a single place (like Commons:Requests_for_translation) where users, after finding that there is some exceptional image available through the author, can post a request for the author to be contacted that is then picked up by volunteers who will quickly gain experience on how to properly do this (en:Wikipedia:Example_requests_for_permission might provide a few ideas).

While of course not every request will be successful, this should greatly increase the number of requests sent and consequentially also the number of requests that are actually granted, making some of those fantastic images a part of Commons that we now only stare at with envy. -- JovanCormac 07:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Seems too formal. Is there any compelling reason as to why our current practice isn't working? –blurpeace (talk) 08:24, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
What is "our current practice"? From the example I gave it appears that it is "well, someone may do it, or someone may not, and in the end it doesn't get done", which is exactly the problem. -- JovanCormac 17:10, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
I think a page on commons that guides users on how to best ask for permission would be very useful. This should also include cooperation projects with image databases.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 07:07, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
That's what we need at the very least, yes. -- JovanCormac 07:32, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
I like this idea too. We could also have a place where names of people contacting other parties are kept. It might be confusing to other websites and database administrators to be contacted repeatedly by people representing Wiki[mp]edia that do not know about each other, or about the last exchange. --Jarekt (talk) 13:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
I do think a taskforce could be a nice idea, I think I would even join it :) Huib talk 14:02, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
This could be very useful. I have a bit of experience in getting people to release images under a free licence, but I often encounter situations where I don't speak the language of the copyright holder. Having a centralized place (ordered by language) to ask for help would be great. Pruneautalk 14:27, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
I cannot see why a "small group of people on Commons" is necessary. Needless formalities. I'd support an information page or task force though. –blurpeace (talk) 20:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Of course, the more people join, the better! "Small group" was not a reference to restrictions of any kind. -- JovanCormac 21:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Misinterpretation on my part. Commons:WikiProject Permission requests could be a start. –blurpeace (talk) 21:07, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
I set up the page, and the first two ideas for permission requests. Who's with me? -- JovanCormac 10:58, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Great work. Maybe a participants list? I'll set one up. –blurpeace (talk) 19:42, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] November 20

[edit] Superresolution for low-res images

For whatever reason, many images at Commons are not available in high resolution. Modern sophisticated single-image superresolution algorithms can produce zoomed versions of images far superior to those available from standard tools like Photoshop (see e.g. [2]). In light of this, it might be useful to implement a modern algorithm and run an offline batch job to perform superresolution on all low-res images (say, any image below 800 pixels wide). I can think of two main problems with this:

  1. Some users license only low-resolution versions of their images - if a higher resolution version is distributed they may falsely conclude that it is an illegally distributed unlicensed version, rather than derived legally from a licensed version, leading to confusion.
They'd be wrong, then, wouldn't they? Nothing that cannot be cleared up. -- JovanCormac 13:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
  1. Superresolution algorithms may introduce artifacts or inaccuracies in images; if such an image is interpreted as authoritative it could lead to false conclusions.

An alternative is to run the superresolution on the server side when producing image thumbnails/downloads. I consider this untenable because I suspect the algorithms involved are computationally expensive.

Thoughts? Dcoetzee (talk) 01:17, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd have to see some examples of up-scaled images, but it seems to me any algorithm, no matter how good, would be making assumptions about the image. Doing so would therefore lower the educational value of the images, as it moves the image from the realm of fact to the realm of supposition. Powers (talk) 01:40, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
There are some good demonstration images on the page I linked. You might take this with a grain of salt though, since they deliberately chose images containing patterns (which for technical reasons their method performs better on). Dcoetzee (talk) 01:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Okay, but whenever an image is displayed on a screen of a different resolution, there's a scaling algorithm involved. Most of our data is stored as JPEG files, where a bunch of information has been dropped on the assumption that it was irrelevant, and the small images get scaled up anyway, by algorithms that make assumptions, sometimes blatantly wrong ones. (Nearest neighbor, for example, assumes that pixelization is a fundamental property of the image.) Yes, we should preserve as close to the original files as possible, but I don't see the clear line between realm of fact and realm of supposition here. If we can find an algorithm we can run cheaply, I wouldn't mind up-scaled images, provided the original files were still available.--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
If we could find a cheap algorithm to upscale and use it in MediaWiki I think that would be a good thing. If MediaWiki could generate both 100px and 200px versions of File:Nuvola_apps_important.png it would be useful. Nearest neighbour would be better than nothing, provided it was handled in an equivalent manner to the current thumbnail generation.--Nilfanion (talk) 02:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Isn't that what we have the svg version for...? Regards, —Ed (talk • contribs) 03:17, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Yeah sorry (poor example), but might be useful if same principle would work with photographic images too.--Nilfanion (talk) 12:08, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't think a batch run is a good idea. The primary purpose of Commons is to provide hosting for WM project imagery. Actual usage on projects is primarily at thumbnail resolutions, how many readers click through to see the larger images? That makes me concerned about the effects of stacking: if you upscale a 200x160 image to 800x640, MediaWiki will downsample back to 200px for use in articles - with the potential to reduce quality. Increasing the resolution cannot provide additional information, and ultimately if downstream users need a higher resolution image they can upscale it themselves (with the algorithm of their choice).
If an image has its resolution increased in this manner, IMO it should be uploaded to a new location not over the original. That addresses the problems you raised, but also restricts the utility. The higher resolution image could then be linked to through other versions. Any such process should be carefully implemented - there is no point to increasing the resolution of these images, whilst there may be a benefit to doing so with many of these.--Nilfanion (talk) 02:13, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
  • I think its a path we dont want to follow because the potential gain for us doesnt out weigh the probable loss, its not providing anything to Wikimedia Commons or associated Foundation projects. Many of us work with institutions to get improvements in the number of quality of images that are released under free licenses this sometimes means that the images we get are of lower resolutions, but these are large enough for the various project. If our policies are seen as actively targeting these instutions potential income streams(providing Hi-res, print versions) using the images they provide they wont be willing to work with us and they'll more readily resort to Nation Portrait Gallery type methods when a user upload images here. We already have problems with with institutions claiming copyright over effort to reproduce works(in some cases the work itself) the more we provide reasons for them to challenge the notion of this in courts the more likely that the effort will be recognised. We only need a local court finding against a local editor to eliminate all images from that region, irregardless of the current US laws. As an active contributor of photographs I upload downsized images because of the costs and volume restrictions that are a part of the service my ISP supplies, I will if asked provide the original file for any photograph. If I was to start seeing my images upsized with all the problems about quality and detail I would reconsider providing photographs. Gnangarra 03:16, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
It might be a viable option in some cases, but in most of those examples something just seems very wrong to my eye and they are even making me feel a bit nauseous for some reason, it looks unreal. Maybe it's better if you don't upscale so much though. Njaelkies Lea (talk) 03:47, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm very queasy about providing worse service to our users because some institutions want to make money off the public domain, no matter what the cultural costs are. We should do what we should do, and if they want to go into saber-rattling, like the NPG did, then let them. If they want to sue, and take the massive publicity hit, well, it's possible they could twist the Wikimedia Foundation's arm into deleting the files; at which point the w:Streisand effect takes hold, for one, and they have to deal with the consequences of being widely known for forcing Wikipedia to delete pictures of 300-year-old paintings.--Prosfilaes (talk) 14:12, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree 100% here. I never understand discussions of that type. Wikimedia is already bigger than any other repository. I don't see why we should try and please the guardians of artworks whose duty it is to preserve them for the public. Just wait, in a few years' time those very institutions will be coming to Wikimedia, requesting that we host their images. -- JovanCormac 13:11, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

An aside: this topic prompted me to examine the upscaling that various browsers apply to images. I compared this eye-test chart (108 x 135 pixels) from the original post against 3 times upscaling in browsers and IrfanView (324 x 405 pixels). I used Vista with a modern widescreen HP LCD monitor. Best quality at the top, all my own opinion. Size is bytes from upscaled file or cropped browser screencap, all after PNGOUT optimising.

Viewing program how upscaled rank notes size
Super-Resolution website click Our SR Result 1 noticeably sharper than Chrome and Lanczos 41,652
Google Chrome press Ctrl-+ 6 times 2 better than IE; like Lanczos;
upscale limited at 322 x 403		 41,528
IrfanView 4.23 300% Lanczos 2 like Chrome; 52,148
Internet Explorer 7.0.6000.16916 Zoom 300% 3 better than: Firefox and B-Spline + sharpen ;
less sharp than: Chrome		 40,071
IrfanView 4.23 300% B-Spline + sharpen 4 - 46,092
Firefox 3.5.5 press Ctrl-+ 8 times 5 better than Opera; like Triangle;
sharper than B-Spline + sharpen but aliased		 37,846
IrfanView 4.23 300% Triangle 5 better than Opera 39,870
IrfanView 4.23 300% Hermite 6 better than Opera 38,517
Opera 10.01 press Ctrl-+ 2 times 7 identical to plain resize
IrfanView 4.23 300% resize 7 identical to Opera 9,920
Original image 8 - 6,643

-84user (talk) 15:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC) I added size in bytes and more examples. -84user (talk) 16:00, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

It is obvious from the test page that the SR method creates better, in some cases much better, results than any other commonly used method. I think this would be a great feature for Commons/MediaWiki to have. Implementing this could make a wonderful Summer of Code project... -- JovanCormac 13:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
That's amazing. I don't know about automatically upscaling en masse, but having it as an option would be great. Is this Super-Resolution implemented in any program? mahanga (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
There's no public implementation of it, but the paper contains all the details needed to implement it. I think the best think I could do is create a freely licensed implementation which could then be integrated with other tools like ImageMagick, the GIMP, Photoshop, and a Mediawiki extension if desired. Dcoetzee (talk) 23:12, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Just a coomment that this is exactly the kind of tool Id like to have. Most images in articles are perfectly fine as smaller versions of originals, but if an image is interesting I want to be able to enlarge it to see detail. Many images on commons are scanned regrettably small and much worse quality than the original. A tool built into the images page as a zoom option would be perfect, no need then to alter originals. Sandpiper (talk) 19:40, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Unusual Category

Here Category:2006 photos of Japan is a category, that is very unusual compared to all other categories, isnt it? Comments and ideas about it? Cholo Aleman (talk) 09:54, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

  • It is unusual, but what I like about it is that it describes its scope better than Category:2006 in Japan would. -- User:Docu at 14:49, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
    • Well, at the moment it does, but if (for example) someone had a ticket stub from Japan in 2006, would you really want them to have to make a different category? - Jmabel ! talk 21:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Bundesarchiv Categorization status

Was just wondering...after the conversation here: which is now archived has anything actively been decided or will actually occur? 68.144.162.78 14:31, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

People are still actively categorizing these images. Multichill (talk) 16:59, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand how that is an answer to my question. We were discussing the "by year" categories; the link you provided shows nothing like that.68.144.162.78 01:08, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I proposed recreation of the Category:Images from the German Federal Archive by year category but this time using categories added to the images instead of autocatgorization through templates. Although there was a lot of support for it, it was unclear to me if the resulting categories would be considered to be temporary or permanent. I am hesitant to put much effort into a temporary structure to be deleted latter. Also, at the moment I am in the middle of some other tasks on Commons which I would like to finish before starting a new task. But I assume that it will (eventually) happen. --Jarekt (talk) 14:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I would definitely support them being permanent categories. Before the categories were deleted I was using the Bundesarchiv year categories to find photographs of various European cars. I would find a car article that needed an image, look up the model years for car, look through those years in the Bundesarchiv categories and quite often I would find a free license image of the car I was looking for. Once the year categories were deleted, I gave up on my little project, to the detriment of both Wikipedia and the Bundesarchiv. Kaldari (talk) 17:31, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] SVG converting?

Can someone help me to convert Image:Modern Talking.png to a SVG file. Thanks, and please contact me if you can... --MisterWiki (talk) 22:17, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Oversight nomination

The admin Abigor has nominated himself for the oversight rights. Your opinion is appreciated at Commons:Oversighters/Requests/Abigor. --The Evil IP address (talk) 22:33, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] November 22

[edit] File:Heckert GNU white.svg

Something is wrong with that image. It seems that all File versions are deleted but the description file is still there. Somebody uploaded several new versions tonight; perhaps they messing it up. It is used in {{GFDL}}. Therefore its used within thousends or millions of image description files. Can somebody (an Admin?) fix this? Thx. --Jutta234 (talk) 10:51, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

please see Commons:Administrators'_noticeboard#FIle:Heckert_GNU_white.svg Huib talk 10:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Ahh, thx :) --Jutta234 (talk) 11:00, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Why is the protection on that image downgraded to autoconfirmed?? -Nard the Bard 21:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Because someone wanted to upload a cleanup of the image. I've reprotected it to sysop. --The Evil IP address (talk) 22:00, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Not existing Heckert_GNU_white.svg in Licensing

I have uploaded several images but there is mentioned in the Licensing block "File:Heckert GNU white.svg" in red. See for example File:Tenerife Adeje beach D.jpg. What is the cause? Thanks, Wouter (talk) 10:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

please see Commons:Administrators'_noticeboard#FIle:Heckert_GNU_white.svg Huib talk 10:56, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Flickr2Commons & GIFs

First, let me say Flickr2Commons is a great tool. It saves enormous grief in the process of transferring images from Commons.

Now, a question/problem. Commons apparently allows GIF images. If the underlying image is a GIF, Flickr2Commons blithely transfers it to a filename with a JPG extension and (at least in Firefox) it displays just fine (including when you put it in a Wikipedia article), so you don't know you've uploaded in a format that is not permitted. This happened to me, for example, at File:Seattle Mayor Braman greeting President Johnson at Sea-Tac Airport, 1966.jpg. Once I saw the problem, I downloaded to my computer, made a JPG, and uploaded that (but of course that leaves the GIF in the version history). And I'm sure this has happened to me and others many times without our noticing.

Any suggestion how to proceed? - Jmabel ! talk 21:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

  • Have the bot check for file type? -Nard the Bard 21:45, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
    • Well, for the future, and if someone wants to implement it, that's obviously desirable, but meanwhile we doubtless have a bunch of GIFs on the Commons. Should we be combing all files uploaded by Flickr2Commons to find them? Once we identify them, is there some bot-based way to turn them into PNGs or JPGs? - Jmabel ! talk 22:00, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
    • Ah, I see from Commons:File types that GIFs are allowed (they didn't used to be, right?). So the problem is just one of an inappropriate suffix that might confuse some software. - Jmabel ! talk 22:12, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
I uploaded File:Seattle Mayor Braman greeting President Johnson at Sea-Tac Airport, 1966.png converted from the original GIF because I noticed crops of the JPEG show compression artefacts when examined closely. From what you say the simplest solution would be to just rename those .jpg files which are really GIFs to end in .gif. Any bot conversions should be towards the lossless PNG format, though. -84user (talk) 23:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

In general GIF files are allowed, but the format is mostly meant for animated GIF files. Most non-animated GIF files should be converted to PNG format (prior to upload if possible). For about a year now Commons software has a problem with all GIF files and no longer produces thumbnails for them, as a result most of large GIF files do not look right on Commons and if you look at a page with namy large GIF files your browser might run out of memory. The problem with software was supposedly fixed, but so far nobody figured out how to turn-on the thumbnailer, see here for details. --Jarekt (talk) 13:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The old GIF thumbnailer was actually a lot better for certain types of images than the PNG thumbnailer (which is just not very good, and hasn't been significantly improved during the last four years, as far as I can tell); this is part of why some people used to uploaded non-animated GIFs... AnonMoos (talk) 22:47, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] November 23

[edit] Bundesarchiv images

There seems to be an edit war going on with some people cropping the captions off these images and generally tidying them up, while others are reverting the changes. Whats going on? I regard the images as unacceptable for use on wikipedia while carrying a white stripe down one side and advertising the people who supplied them.Sandpiper (talk) 00:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Why would your personal opinion be of importance in a matter of community standards?68.144.162.78 01:10, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Who is that? that's not the sort of comment an anon contributor makes. Advertising on wiki is absolutely not acceptable. White stripes down images we use isn't either. They have to be cleaned up somehow and also for spots and blemishes on the pictures. I will take a picture like that off any page I am working on. Sandpiper (talk) 07:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't know what's going on, but I would urge people to take care when cropping and otherwise tidying up images. Image information will be lost unless lossless cropping or lossless rotation is used. Also image sharpening will probably create artefacts. As to cropping captions and reverting, I would urge people to instead create and upload a derivative image (retouched if necessary) of the original and link them together with {{Extracted from}}, {{Image extracted}} and {{RetouchedPicture}}. Should this guidance be in Category:Bundesarchiv? That way all parties should be happy and the database and external commons users should be happier too. -84user (talk) 01:19, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
There certainly needs to be a definitive explanation of what to do clearly available. There are an awful lot of these so that means creating 80,000 derivative versions or something. I think I noticed a bot at work for cropping them and a bot for restoring them? This is a general issue aside from this set: There are very many old images which need cleaning up in some way to make them look good. I assume myself that the reason the old versions of files are still available on the page is so anyone can use those instead if they want, but the tidied versions are automatically used by wiki. I have never seen instructions about what to do. Sandpiper (talk) 07:45, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that watermarks on bundersarchive images should be dealt with the same way we deal with all other watermarked images, see Category:Images with watermarks and Template:Watermark. We do have a policy about this issue. I do not like the idea of making copies of those images it is hard enough to keep 84k images categorized and with image descriptions. 168k would be even harder. I agree with 84user about need for lossless cropping.--Jarekt (talk) 13:36, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Thing is, I don't know that watermarking is even an issue. How do I preserve a watermark? There is nothing on the page to say they should not be altered, nor that there is any special requirement about keeping the captions, etc. People are doing the apparently sensible thing and cropping the rubbish, but also touching up faults on the images. Sandpiper (talk) 14:43, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, read the policy. I thought you were talking about invisible watermarks. For my vote, the captions have to go. The current version of an image ought to be the most presentable one. Sandpiper (talk) 14:47, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Living people

I've started a discussion on this category over at CfD: Commons:Categories for discussion/2009/11/Category:Living people. As this is an important category on the Wikipedias it is used on notifying community here. Any comments there would be appreciated.--Nilfanion (talk) 13:01, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] External use

Came across this earlier [3]. Appears all the images are from here. Haven't checked the sources images to see if the license terms are met although each image is attributed. Nil Einne (talk) 13:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Whoever takes care of that, it would be nice to put on the talkpage of each re-used image our published-template {{published| author= |date= |url= |title= |org= |legal= }}. (Or if that is asked to much, at least put the link to the respective article on the re-used image's talkpage.) Thanks. --Túrelio (talk) 13:20, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Should we trust Shavedangie's uploads?

Hi everyone. Should we trust Shavedangie's uploads? (women naked, women peeing... and I'm not sure it's always the same one...) What do you think? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 17:56, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Model is hardly identifiable. Is the images useful ? I don't know... - Zil (d) 08:46, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Quick googling showed that those pictures are available under the same nickname on few other websites, so probably authorship is OK. Question is, is this in scope? --Leafnode✉ 16:23, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Well yeah it is in the scope, why wouldn't it be? Peeing is life, Commons can show illustrations of it. And it can illustrate urolagnia too. As for the other pictures, well, it's no less in the scope than most of the nudes we already have so there's no good reason to delete them instead than other similar pics. It just participate to the diversity of choice about related subjects... --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 18:33, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Feedback on Commons:Video

I created this page because I felt Commons needed a starting point for video-related information. The only article that existed before this one was Help:Converting video. Other video-related information was scattered on other pages. I gathered much of the information from meta:Video policy, w:Wikipedia:Creation and usage of media files#Video, and some other pages and condensed it and simplified it for for users unfamiliar with the Theora format. Edit away as you like. mahanga (talk) 17:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Great job. --Jarekt (talk) 21:33, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Not bad. However, I would do the following: write an introduction that summarizes the page content, try to make the structure a bit better and consider renaming it to Commons:Video files, which would be more exact. --The Evil IP address (talk) 10:18, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Little icon has changed?

Just today, I've noticed a change in the little icon that appears next to "Wikimedia Commons" in any tab in my IE browser that's displaying a Commons page: it's gone from the Commons logo to a white "M" in a blue square with rounded corners. Why was this done? Sorry for the potentially confusing explanation of which icon I mean: I don't know what it's called. Nyttend (talk) 18:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

You probably mean the favicon, http://commons.wikimedia.org/favicon.ico. But i don't notice a change in that, same Commons logo as usual. --Rosenzweig δ 19:31, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I mean; thanks for the link. When I click on the link that you gave, it gave me the same Commons logo as usual, too. However, I'm continuing to get the M favicon in the tabs. Commons appears to be the only website that's doing this; and it's not a WMF thing, since I continue to get a big "W" at Wikipedia. Nyttend (talk) 21:33, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] November 25

[edit] Toolserver

[graph/hist] Toolserver status
Last update 08:00, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
MySQL rosemary up
MySQL daphne up
MySQL yarrow up
Replag s1 -1h 59m 59s
Replag s2 0h 0m 57s
Replag s3 0h 0m 2s
Replag s4 32h 22m 25s
Replag s5 0h 0m 3s
More information...

Database lag is increasing. It's currently 1 day and 21 hours. Is this likely to increase further or can this be fixed shortly? I couldn't find anything on the mailing list. Some tools work much better with up-to-date data. -- User:Docu at 05:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I tried to ask in #wikimedia-tech, but the people who were around at the time weren't the friendliest, and almost seemed upset that I was asking. :-/ Killiondude (talk) 07:36, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
So I guess it's "likely to increase further". Thanks for checking. It helps deciding if I should switch tools or just wait a moment. -- User:Docu at 07:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Killiondude I guess thats because you are in the wrong channel, you should #wikimedia-toolserver instead. Huib talk 14:39, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Based on this, it looks like it's improving: lag still increases, but the rate of increase reduces slightly. -- User:Docu at 14:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
River did a fix this morning, but they still don't know why its lagging so they don't know how to fix it. Huib talk 15:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
40 hours after putting a geotag on File:Halsey St BMT jeh.JPG and others, they still don't appear on Google Maps or Google Earth. Am I correct to assume it's because of the toolserver lag? Jim.henderson (talk) 23:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes. The most recent ones appearing are now from 08:08, 2009 November 24. It seems that all tools are on the same server. -- User:Docu at 10:33, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
And today after 47 hours I noticed that the EXIF bot had still not extracted the coordinates of File:Dyre Av Associates 420 W42 jeh.jpg. It usually runs every morning. I thought this bot was separate from the congested toolserver, but perhaps it is dependent. Anyway the problem suggests we've got too many tools in one overloaded server. Jim.henderson (talk) 17:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
It's improving (or maybe just nobody is editing right now ..)!
For info, I added {{toolserver}} to the beginning of this thread. It should be removed once this thread is archived. BTW there is also https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/MNT-11 -- User:Docu at 09:06, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Where are the email templates?

Today, I received an email notification for this deletion:

...

The Wikimedia Commons page File:P. nigra .JPG has been created on 25 November 2009 by Túrelio, see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:P._nigra_.JPG for the current revision.

This is a new page.

Editor's summary: duplicate or a scaled down version of File:Prunus negra .jpg

...

I'll gladly change it myself, but I don't know where the corresponding templates are.

Regards, Paradoctor (talk) 17:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

It's at MediaWiki:Enotif body. You can propose changes to it by adding {{editprotected}} on the talk page followed by your request. --The Evil IP address (talk) 18:07, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Amusingly, there is a box on the page stating that it has been deleted almost three years ago. But the message tab is blue, and I can watch the source, and get the message template alright. I'll follow this advice. Regards, Paradoctor (talk) 19:10, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Submitted as bug no. 21642 Paradoctor (talk) 19:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Oh, bother! This issue had been fixed three months ago, but returned[4] due to a source revert. Let's hope we don't have to wait another ten months for an already fixed bug to be fixed again. Paradoctor (talk) 23:25, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Questions to help with Wikimedia Strategy.

Hi, good people of Wikimedia Commons.

I've come over from strategy.wikimedia.org. We're interested to know two things about how you work here on Wikimedia Commons.

First, do you have any competitions? On en:wp there are quite a few different competitions that seem to help motivate editors to do good work and more of it.

Here's an example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CUP

More can be found at:

http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editor_awards_and_rewards#Contests

Aside from featured content and Picture Of The Year, does Wikimedia Commons run anything like that?

Also on en:wp there are a number of WikiProjects which help editors to bond as smaller communities within the larger one.

Here's an example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history

More can be found at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WIKIPROJECT

Can you point to any sort of sub-communities within Wikmedia Commons which help editors bond as a smaller group within the project as a whole?

Answers to these questions will be valuable to us as we work on Wikimedia Strategy. I will be grateful for any information you can provide. --Bodnotbod (talk) 18:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Besides what you already mentioned, we also have Valued image candidates, Quality images candidates and Featured sound candidates (though the latter is kinda inactive). As something combarable to en.wikipedia, we have the Graphic Lab, which fixes bad images. We also have some projects and WikiProjects, but a lot are inactive. Furthermore, we don't tag talk pages with hundred of templates as en.wikipedia loves to do it. However, we do have some smaller sub-communities: There are people who translate templates, who work with the Bundesarchiv images, Image Annotator people, template guys, copyvio hunters and a lot more, but often they're not within a WikiProject. --The Evil IP address (talk) 19:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
More active subset of Projects can be found. Examples of ther active projects: image geocodding effort, Commons:WikiProject Tree of Life or Category:Photo scavenger hunts. --Jarekt (talk) 19:41, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] 3D models in scope?

This search yields a lot of files which are renderings of 3D models. Obviously, there are educational uses of 3D models. Shouldn't we start collecting them? Regards, Paradoctor (talk) 21:03, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

We are collecting them in subcategories of Category:3D computer graphics. If some 3D models are not included there then they should be added.--Jarekt (talk) 21:48, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Errm, I should've been more precise: I am talking about 3D models, which usually come in one of these file formats. Many of the files in Category:3D computer graphics, as well as some videos are merely renderings of 3D objects, scenes and animations. Check Gyrate Bidiminished Rhombicosidodecahedron for an example of using 3D models to good effect in an educational setting. Drag the mouse pointer across the color image to rotate the model. Regards, Paradoctor (talk) 23:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd actually prefer the models over the rendered images, since the former are in general more useful. In theory, the latter can always be generated from the former if needed. --Sebari (talk) 00:26, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Yep, that's what I mean. Problem is, neither COM:SCOPE nor COM:FT even mention 3D models, so the files can't be uploaded. It is of course possible to define a wrapper extension to one of the allowed formats, and create a player in SVG, but that would total nonsense, considering that there are open formats like VRML for which the infrastructure alrady exists. Paradoctor (talk) 12:59, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Some of the renderings in category:Povray include the code that was used to generate them. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 13:06, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I can see it before my inner eye: An art student following instructions to install Povray and run a script just to look at a model of The Thinker. ;o) Ah well, it's a start.

Support for 3D models is definitely something we should add. Some questions that arise:

  1. Do we need to support several formats or are the formats fully convertible (which would allow us to concentrate on a single free one)?
  2. Is it possible to embed malicious code into the models?
  3. If it's not possible it should be fairly easy to make the developers allow uploading them
    1. (although they most likely will not be displayable by MediaWiki anytime soon).
  4. If it's possible to embed code, the developers will reject it until some way to sanitize them is created (which can mean years if nobody is willing to put volunteer effort into it). --Slomox (talk) 14:43, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I took the liberty of reformatting your post.

  1. That depends entirely on your definition of fully. Anyway, even if they were totally incompatible, there will always be content creators willing to do conversions or clones. I don't think that that will be more than a technical question in the long run.
  2. That depends entirely on the plugin used. I can't imagine VRML or X3D or whatever being a bigger threat than SVG files. Please note that models are meant to be static, so there is not too much complexity involved, and a simple validation should be protection enough. Of course, there are formats describing entire interactive animations, with corresponding increase in complexity, but I think rating the potential risks involved is something better left to our techies. After they've solved the database lag crisis. ;)
  3. I don't think we can "make" the developers do anything. ^_^ Which file types we allow to be uploaded is determined by the configuration of the Commons MediaWiki installation.
    1. It's not MediaWiki that displays the files, that's the browser's job. Visually, MediaWiki can treat 3D models just like audio files, by displaying a standard thumbnail appropriate to the particular file type.
  4. As I said above, I don't think we need to worry about that.

Regards, Paradoctor (talk) 21:43, 26 November 2009 (UTC)


As discussed on Commons_talk:File_types (or its archive), file formats which can be given an automatically-generated visual preview are greatly preferred, while file formats which merely encode abstract data relationships without a specific concrete visual (or audio or audio-visual) realization tend to be dispreferred. AnonMoos (talk) 22:28, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

P.S. See also Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2009May#Other_types_of_media:_three_dimensional_objects_and_videos.3F -- AnonMoos (talk) 22:39, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointers. You say that "file formats which merely encode abstract data relationships without a specific concrete visual (or audio or audio-visual) realization tend to be dispreferred". This makes wonder about a few things: Who does the dispreferring? Has this been discussed anywhere else? So far you seem to be the only one who has raised this point, everyone else seems to think this is the coming thing. That's ok, but I don't understand why. What is the problem with providing/attaching/embedding a preview image? Paradoctor (talk) 23:17, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm 100%-sure that one day MediaWiki and Commons will support 3D models. It's obviously useful and it will happen. The _only_ question is how to solve it technically. If there's no danger in activating it, it shouldn't be a problem. The developers can switch it on and further support will come over time. If activating it is dangerous (active scripting or whatever), then the developers won't switch it on until we've found a way to remove any dangers. --Slomox (talk) 00:58, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "activating". Most browsers do not currently have 3D-rendering support (as far as I'm aware), so serving the 3D data format directly to the browser would generally display nothing. The only way that people without 3D software installed will see anything is if the Wikimedia software generates a static 2D preview (in a format such as PNG). This is one reason why file formats with a specific concrete visual (or audio or audio-visual) realization tend to be preferred... AnonMoos (talk) 07:45, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Well we currently have no support for tiff previewing. Why not allow users to upload open source 3d formats, such as blender, and worry about rendering later? This would allow collaboration in improving files and ensure its existence on commons.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 08:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
TIFF got in solely due to politics of working with outside archives, and not because of the internal needs of Wikimedia/Wikipedia... AnonMoos (talk) 08:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
@AnonMoos: By activating I mean enabling their upload. Independant of whether they can be displayed. Commons is a repository. Just as Diaa abdelmoneim says, we can allow the upload now and worry about the display later. Media that can be rendered are preferred, but that doesn't mean we can not or should not host media if we can't render them yet. As a repository we still can provide and share free 3D models. Being able to render them is a big bonus but not a necessary one. Commons was created as a helper tool for Wikipedia, but it is more than that. It's a free media repository. --Slomox (talk) 12:09, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Summary

Everywhere this has been discussed before[1][2][3][4][5], there was unanimous support for inclusion, with the exception of Anonmoos. Anonmoos' concern is about usability for Wikimedia, not about general policy. This implies that there is unanimous consensus that 3D models are within COM:SCOPE.

Agreed? Paradoctor (talk) 13:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not actually opposed as such, just telling you some of the kinds of objections which will likely be raised (or were raised in past) when it eventually comes down to trying to persuade people who actually have powers to change things... AnonMoos (talk) 18:30, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, it's good to hear that. I suggest that anyone interested in adding 3D models to our collection to head over here. The more, the merrier. ;) Regards, Paradoctor (talk) 19:58, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I've been trying for months to get them to take DNG raw camera images, which are even less problematic than 3D models (since it's easy to create previews of DNGs using the TIFF engine). It's just really hard to get changes to the upload policy implemented. Dcoetzee (talk) 19:11, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
And if I remember correctly, we had a general agreement on the DNG proposal. Sv1xv (talk) 19:26, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] File usage outside of WMF

Commons provides files to all. File usage seems to be reported only when inside of WMF. Is it appropriate to add links to uses elsewhere on the web? What about usage in print media? Are we interested in such data?

We label files used outside WMF with Template:Published placed on the talk page. --Jarekt (talk) 21:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Other wikis can also use images from Commons, much like any WMF wiki can, if they have the extension (is that the right terminology?) enabled. I've always thought it would be interested if there was a tool like checkusage to tell us which wikis use which image. I don't know if that's feasible, however. Killiondude (talk) 22:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
The {{Published}} template is about usage by media organizations. I mean general use, maybe on some blog, a gaming forum, print shops selling posters, scientific publications, b3ta, personal homepages, things like that. I can't find it anymore, but I saw one of our Einstein pics used in an entry for a competition to design an anniversary edition cover for a print(?) magazine. I downloaded this portrait of the Obama family for someone who wants to paint a portrait of the Obama daughters. Paradoctor (talk) 23:43, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
In case you don't think the published template to be appropriate, just leave a link to the outside-use on the talkpage of the respective image. --Túrelio (talk) 10:36, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I'll do that. I was concerned that this might be considered link spam. Regards, Paradoctor (talk) 12:47, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] November 26

[edit] Weird error message

I mass uploaded a set of scans using Commonist. When it was done, there was a message about being unable to change the gallery (mine, presumably). When I checked the category, one image was missing. I tried to manually upload the missing image, and got this message “Upload warning: Files of the MIME type "application/x-php" are not allowed to be uploaded.” Anything I can do, or is this related to the toolserver tribulations? Paradoctor (talk) 00:04, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

MIME type means the format of the file. Perhaps your file has the file name extension ".php"? If that's the case rename it and use the correct file extension. If that's not the case try loading the image in your graphics editor and save it again. --Slomox (talk) 14:50, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
See bugzilla:16583. --Martin H. (talk) 15:02, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
And this is still not fixed? I'm a bit appalled that a bug that is known since a year and whose source is known, caused by a bit of code that is known to be effectless anyway, for which several possible fixes are known since long, that a bug like that, that has made hundreds of file uploads fail since, can still be unfixed. It's not even that the developers weren't aware of the bug or overlooked it. They knew about it. And still it isn't fixed. That's ... sad. --Slomox (talk) 16:09, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
I neither know what the bug means nor how to resolve the problem. Is there a way to maybe edit the image so that Paradoctor can evade his problem? --Martin H. (talk) 16:46, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Pretty much any thorough transformation will fix it. Just loading it into a picture editor and saving it might do the job. If it's a PNG, running a PNG optimizer over it (and making sure it changes something) would probably do it. If it's a JPEG, though, I don't know if any simple lossless transformation will fix the problem.--Prosfilaes (talk) 16:50, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, checking the file contents with Notepad++ was the first thing I did yesterday. Lo and behold, the 2nd-to-4th bytes spake "PNG", and all was fricken well on that front. Following up on Martin's pointer, I mutilated a pixel in the upper left corner of the image, and finally completed the set.

As a workaround, I suggest amending the text of the error message with information on the bug, and how to work around it.

@Martin: The bug is caused by MediaWiki using PHP's MimeMagic to guess the type of an uploaded file from its contents, rather than relying on the file name extension. In this case, a file is considered to be a PHP script if it contains the string "<?" somewhere in the first 1024 bytes of the file. This happens by chance in about ~1 % of all random files, and many compressed file types look pretty random.

@Prosfilaes: WRT to JPEG lossless rotation, the offending magic bytes may just as well appear in a header section. We have files with dimensions large enough to trigger the bug ("<?"=15423/16188, depending on byte order). If you're really unlucky, you'd have to either crop or pad a huge file for upload just to work around a stupid heuristic. Ah, the joys of non-deterministic automata! ^_^ Paradoctor (talk) 21:15, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] What in the world is "Shoop Da Whoop"? And "Cell"?

Even though this is something not knowlegible,


What the heck is Shoop Da Whoop?



--Mj.Monogram (talk) 02:14, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, Francis, they're 4chan memes. ViperSnake151 (talk) 02:41, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Byzantine Empire

Since the Roman Society was desyroyed by asians in the 300s or so. How is the Byzantine Empire different? But I already know that its culture is probbaly different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mj.Monogram (talk • contribs) 02:20, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

This Wikimedia Commons page is used for discussions of the operations, technical issues, and policies of Wikimedia Commons. --Martin H. (talk) 10:47, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Song

I am trying to find the artist and label for an old song from my childhood? the song is a parody of the wizard of oz entitled I think-Ding Dong the Wicked Witch is Dead. help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barberswoop (talk • contribs) 03:36, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Ding Dong The Wicked Witch Is Dead (I hope the title is that) was done by a group called The Fifth Estate who recorded it in 1967 and I believe it is on YouTube... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eng446w4 (talk • contribs) 04:37, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Quote from above: This Wikimedia Commons page is used for discussions of the operations, technical issues, and policies of Wikimedia Commons. -- JovanCormac 12:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Talkpage

How does one simply use my talk! Is a separate page needed to be started to use it? Where would I check for replies? Finally, I have yet to receive my email confirmation supposedly sent out twice a while ago. HELP!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eng446w4 (talk • contribs) 04:13, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Your user talkpage is here: User talk:Eng446w4. Actually you edited it already twice. --Túrelio (talk) 10:38, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] crop

Does anyone know if anyone maintains the crop-requests? Would it be possible to make an online tool to perform these requests? Effeietsanders (talk) 14:33, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Linkje! Multichill (talk) 14:39, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks a lot :) I cropped a bunch of images... Effeietsanders (talk) 14:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] from the realm of the uncategorized: Files from user:Wendita20

This user has uploaded several files with architectural modells, obviously self designed, see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Wendita20 , all are uncategorized. More or less they are in the form of a bookpages. Is it in scope? If yes, what will be the right category? not clear for me. Cholo Aleman (talk) 21:28, 26 November 2009 (UTC)


[edit] File:COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Marktvrouwen met kleine varkentjes en andere koopwaar TMnr 60030913.jpg

obviously there is a massive upload of files from the netherlands Tropenmuseum by kitbot, - where is a description of this cooperation? Cholo Aleman (talk) 21:59, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Commons:Tropenmuseum and Commons:Batch_uploading#Tropenmuseum --Justass (talk) 22:07, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Most categories seem to be pretty much useless in their current form... AnonMoos (talk) 22:15, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Just temporary categories to get things going. I'll write a manual on how to use them tomorrow. Multichill (talk) 22:25, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! Cholo Aleman (talk) 05:09, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
See #Tropenmuseum image donation and Commons:Tropenmuseum#Categorization. I would appreciate it if you continue in the new topic. Multichill (talk) 15:30, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
see below - the big problem (unless for me) are the descriptions in Dutch, German is my first language, but Dutch is very different Cholo Aleman (talk) 23:02, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] November 27

[edit] Facebook and Commons

In the spanish cafe, an IP is asking about upload pictures from facebook. There are compatible license between commons and facebook? --Arcibel (talk) 00:44, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

  • Only if the user posts a license along with his image. AFAIK there is no way to specify an image license on Facebook, so most if not all content would be All Rights Reserved. -Nard the Bard 01:39, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
There IS way to specify an image license on Facebook. — Jagro (talk) 23:06, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
    • Additionally, pictures uploaded on Facebook are scaled down (probably to save storage and bandwidth), so it would be nicer if the author uploaded the hires version on Commons by himself. -- IANEZZ  (talk) 10:33, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] French building licensing

In regards to these categories:

They need to be checked to see if any images are of individual buildings that are recent. In France images of those buildings inherit a copyright from the architects, so those images need to be moved to the French and/or English Wikipedias. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:07, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

In regards to Category:Skyscrapers in La Defense - Many of them are under construction. Wouldn't they still be considered copyrighted even if the image shows them under construction? WhisperToMe (talk) 04:01, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Broken thumbnail

This image seems unable to produce a thumbnail. Can someone fix it? SharkD (talk) 05:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

It was the usual typical problem of a link to an external raster image ("Zentralperspektive.png"), something which is not allowed on Wikimedia. AnonMoos (talk) 07:38, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Tropenmuseum image donation

Hi everyone, as you might have noticed by now the Tropenmuseum donated another 35.000 images. Most of these images are historic photographs taken somewhere in Indonesia (or the Dutch East Indies as it was called at that time). Please help with getting all these images properly categorized. You can read more about how to do this here. Thank you, Multichill (talk) 15:29, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

great - but in the long run it will be necessary to translate the descriptions into English!? Cholo Aleman (talk) 10:09, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Some files already have English descriptions, would of course be nice to have English translations for more files. Multichill (talk) 11:56, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Penguin sculptures, Liverpool, UK

Today I have taken a few photographs of penguin sculptures around and about the Liverpool area, England. Here is the official website of these penguins:- [5] I think in the UK, it is OK to upload photos of 3D sculptures, but not 2D artworks?

These penguins are 3D sculptures but they have designs painted on them. I am unsure if I am permitted to upload my own photographs of these penguins to the commons. Can someone please advise? Thanks very much, Regards Benkid77 (talk) 18:20, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

They are cute nevertheless! ^v^ Diti the penguin — 19:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
This is exactly the same position as images in Category:CowParade. The artworks are 3D. Freedom of panorama applies, I'd say. Man vyi (talk) 06:46, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks very much for the replies. I'm glad there's already a precedent set for this. I will upload the photos sometime later. I guess I should also use the same copyright template as found on the CowParade category. Best Regards, Benkid77 (talk) 12:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
OK, now uploaded. Category is here:- Category:Go Penguins in Liverpool for those who may be interested. Benkid77 (talk) 13:53, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Very nice. I wonder if there's a logical category for such public art projects which would also encompass Category:Buddy Bears, Category:Munich Leo-Parade and Category:Lviv lions? Man vyi (talk) 17:06, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia article en:CowParade... AnonMoos (talk) 17:14, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
You think Category:CowParade logically encompasses the penguins, pigs, bears and lions? Man vyi (talk) 18:25, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] how to make my upload serchable from the search engine ?

Dear sir, I have uploaded an image of a saint of india, RANGANATH MAHARAJ with detailed information regarding it. This image and information was demanded by many devotees in india and other nations , so i have uploaded it. But i am disappointed to see that it is not available from any search engine including google. You can see the image and information uploaded at File:Rangnath_maharaj2.jpg . It is entirely my own work , and free of copyright obviously. Please help me to make it available from search engines like google. I am desperately waiting for help .Please reply on pinakibhome@yahoo.com

You only uploaded it today; it will probably be added to the search engine index eventually (after a few days or weeks); not sure which you mean, but Google Image search seem to be updated even less frequently than Google text search. AnonMoos (talk) 18:27, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Within Commons, it would help people find this image if you would assign it to one or more categories. Also, for some reason, the text refuses to wrap. Maybe one of the technical folks can do something about that.
Estillbham (talk) 23:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I removed the "detailed information", information like "For every person seeking the ultimate truth, Rangnath Maharaj is a like a lighthouse" is pure POV and not accepted on Wikipedia nor Commons, thats not the kind of image description Commons aims for. Also someone else claims authorship on the same image, File:Rangnath maharaj3.jpg. The image appears to be a photo of a photo, the original photo is not own work and is missing valid source information - bot uploads. --Martin H. (talk) 00:00, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I think user:pinaki and user:pinakibhome are the same person. The name seems to indicate that we're talking to a family member, so the photo might be very well have been taken in the 30s or 40s by the uploader. Paradoctor (talk) 00:15, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Since the other image was uploaded about half a year ago, the uploader possibly forgot the password for the older account. Paradoctor (talk) 00:18, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] File:111 1118.JPG

here is a very good photo, until now buried in the uncategorized stuff. Is there an appropriate category for this kind of photo-technique? I cannot find it Cholo Aleman (talk) 10:12, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps Category:Long exposure or Category:Motion blur? -- IANEZZ  (talk) 10:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks - they fit both! I was not familiar enough with it. Cholo Aleman (talk) 21:11, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] BabelBoxCommons needs your help

I created a fully localizable and customizable userbox for use by Commons stalwarts. It's still under development, but already usable. The language file has already German and English, but we need of course much more. If you're interested, go to w:en:template:BabelBoxCommons. Regards, Paradoctor (talk) 19:01, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Use of latin versus common names/categories for herbs used in cooking

I uploaded a file of Sage Sorbet. I manually input the category Sage (herb) and was surprised there is no such category extant, although there is one for the plant salvia officinalis, from which the sage is derived. If I were talking about the sage growing in my garden, I'd use the Latin category because (among other things) it is unambiguous. But it is really counter-intuitive to me to put a picture of what is essentially green ice cream under a horticultural heading.

I believe the sage sorbet is correctly categorized under "sage" because sage is the primary ingredient, and if I were looking for image examples of sage used in cooking it would be an interesting one.

Also, from what I can tell in reading the help files, one is encouraged to use common instead of "official" names when the common name would be more easily found, and I think this instance would apply. Sage (herb) would be a subcategory under Herbs, which does include cooking examples. But I'm pretty new in town and don't want to go creating new sub-category pages willy-nilly.

Advice?

(Updated to add sig. Sorry)Akina (talk) 23:43, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Odd bug

Uploading a .JPG file (full local name C:\Photo tmp wiki 2\Moscow, Solyanka 11-6,13-3 Aug 2009 01.JPG) I get a "Files of the MIME type "application/zip" are not allowed to be uploaded." - before and after it's ok, this one's stuck. - wassup? Overheat again like the toolserver? NVO (talk) 22:32, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] missing categories with files - "filmmaker" etc.

Here are three categories, that have problems, I think:

Category:Female filmdirectors - should be spelled "Film directors"?! (lots of files are missing, obviously)
Category:Filmmakers - contains 5 files, the correct cat should be "Film directors" as far as I see
Category:Filmmaker contains one file, establishes cat Film directors. - sorry I am to new to handle this by myself. Cholo Aleman (talk) 23:09, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump"
In Wikipedia