File talk:Rote armee fraktion logo.png

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Old discussion copied below --Phrood 20:29, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Status still unknown - while the RAF is definitely not the copyright holder, this logo was designed by one or more individuals, who own the Urheberrrecht (copyright), criminals or not. Maybe it can be considered an anonymous publication, then it would be PD 50 years after publication, iirc. -- Duesentrieb(?!) 20:40, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I found some page stating that Holger Meins (died 1974) may have had a big part in the design. -- Duesentrieb(?!) 20:48, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The RAF was declared an illegal organization by the German government. As such any property of the organization would revert to the government rather than the individual members of the group.

The design first appeared on the cover of the RAF manifesto in 1971. It is known that the manifesto itself was written by Meinhof. Meins is the most likely author of the logo, he was a film student. Both are now dead of course, any claim their estates might have on the copyright would be trumped by the numerous civil claims for damages against them, the bank robberies, bombings, murders and so on. The context in which it is used in Wikipedia is very definitely fair use.--66.31.35.185 02:38, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, the commons does not accept fair use images. Furthermore, under German law, copyright (Urheberrecht) can not be passed on, it "sticks" to the creator (only usage rights can be granted and traded). Also, since the RAF was never a legal body, it never had any copyright (or any right to anything), all rights belong to the individuals (even if that was not so - since when does property of illegal organizations fall to the state?). How the copyright relates to other criminal and civil charges is completely byond me - that's completely irrelevant to the copyright question.
Compare Mein Kampf: even though Hitler is dead, his State gone, his deeds considered hideous crimes, the book indexed in many countries, his work is still copyrighted (the copyright passed to the state of Bavaria, because no one claimed Hitlers heritage, afaik) -- Duesentrieb(?!) 10:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Exact same principle applies, all the members of the first generation Baader Meinhoff cell are dead, nobody has claimed their estate, including the state. The design is relatively trivial, there is no context in which a legitimate court challenge to its use is likely to arise. The property of illegal organizations falls to the state because the state refuses to protect those rights. Copyright only exists when the state is willing to protect that right. --66.31.35.185 18:05, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
if the author is dead, the rights got to the legal hire(s). no claims neccessary. If you can show that there's no legal hire for any of the people in question, i'll accept your argument. -- Duesentrieb(?!) 19:36, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I´m sure it´s not copyrighted VanHelsing.16 13:36, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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