File talk:音-bronze.svg

Origin of this character and type of script

Hello @Micheletb and Wargaz, could you please check the information in {{ACClicense}} on this character? The uploading history suggests "oracle bone script" (see oracle|oracle in upload summary) but the file name says -bronze.svg.

Also on hanziyuan.net it goes under the oracle bone script for 言, with ID J04918. However I cannot find the same glyph in the oracle-bone script database at Sinica. Do we have sources (e.g. ID from a book) about where this glyph appears? --Frigoris (對話) 12:23, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello @Frigoris:

The file description says "For this picture see hanziyuan.org's data: see J04918 image on 音's page." For hanziyuan, prefix J- indicate an oracle script. BUT there is no J04918 (any more) on that page...

Actually, 音 is a late derivative of 言 (or the other way around?), and indeed J04918 is on https://hanziyuan.net/#%E8%A8%80 page. This is where it was taken from, but that database is often unreliable.

The file history is more revealing than the upload history.

My understanding is that since 音 and 言 have the same primitive, this J04918 was retained (jan-2014) to illustrate an oracle version of the char under study (i.e., at a stage where no difference was made between 音 and 言). Then (nov-2017) discussion showed that the J04918 glyph was not "oracle" but actually "bronze", probably using the http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw database, and the character name was changed accordingly.

Michelet-密是力 (對話) 12:56, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

@Micheletb, thanks for the information. I wasn't aware of the "wandering" of this glyph at Hanziyuan. I checked the Sinica database for 音, 言, 舌 and some related characters, but the glyph appears missing from the results, too. --Frigoris (對話) 14:22, 25 September 2020 (UTC)